Bush uses Vietnam as an excuse for Iraq: Evokes Graham Greene
By John Amato Tuesday Aug 21, 2007 3:32pm
Bush's speech today tried to re-write our foreign policy disasters from Korea to Vietnam to try and justify his position on the Iraq war. I guess by using the author Graham Greene as some sort of example, Bush wants us to believe that he actually reads books or something....
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Never in his speech did he address the millions of people that were killed or had their lives destroyed while we were fighting. That's why "war" is such a monumental decision for any president to make and the American people can't be lied into such a situation. Leaving a conflict will always result in more death and destruction. Bush left out so many truths in this speech that it's repulsive. Here's the full transcript. In this piece, Nir Rosen says that Iraq No Longer Exists. Why should it matter to the warmongers. To them it's all just collateral damage.
NIR ROSEN: Iraq has been changed irrevocably, I think. I don’t think Iraq even -- you can say it exists anymore. There has been a very effective, systematic ethnic cleansing of Sunnis from Baghdad, of Shias --from areas that are now mostly Shia. But the Sunnis especially have been a target, as have mixed families like the one we just saw. With a name like Omar, he’s distinctly Sunni -- it’s a very Sunni name. You can be executed for having the name Omar alone. And Baghdad is now firmly in the hands of sectarian Shiite militias, and they’re never going to let it go...read on
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I'm confused. For years, Chimpy has dismissed any comparison to Iraq. Now, such a comparison is legit???
Knowing how much Chimpy loves to repeat the same talking points again and again...I'm sure we'll hear about this non-stop for the next several weeks.
Bush reading books is like me getting a date with Scarlett Johannson and Jessica Biel on the same night. Next to impossible.
So, how many of our GI's have died Bush? 4,000+???
W., you retard, you're doing a heckuva job
Executed for having a name like Omar...
wtf is wrong with us human monkey things?
If Nam was so damned important Georgie, why the hell did you stay in Texas drinking and snorting coke?
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
The Truth Hurts @ 1:
If at first the lies don't succeed...spin spin again.
Damn, bush's eyes were bloodshot. And he seemed agitated...I mean more than usual.
Man, you gotta be desperate to start using Vietnam as an example of anything but why to never, ever get involved in a war. It's like using arsonists as a lesson of how to urban renewal.
That leaving out the fact that, as pointed out in the cited bit, Iraq is really a mess of city states involved in hideous ethnic cleansing. The main reason it was even a country when we invaded it was because a brutal dictator was making it so.
If somebody can tell me what this has in common with a massive proxy war against Russia that basically did nobody any good, I'll give them a nickel.
Our president is roght, ["Our president?" You're a Canadian. Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Gods Warrior @ 10:
This is sarcasm, right?
Gods Warrior @ 10:
will this person prevail or burn ??
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003970.php
Gods Warrior @ 10:
This war is a clusterfuck and the President is wrong. He is wrong because he has no perspective. He's never been in a war nor has he ever fucked in a cluster.
Remember when a Vietnam vet couldn't even get membership with the VFW?
Why does GWB only speak to military groups? There's something about that that is so gay.
This is what many in the right-wing really believe. We lost Vietnam only because we left. Of course in a rweally bizzarre one, my wife had a lady tell her that we won in Vietnam because communism did not spread throughout the rest of Asia.
Now that is twisting the facts as far as they can go.
If Bush and His Thugs were Truely delusional.I might have pity. It's all part of The Plan ,folks. The Thugs and their crony of the week Murray deserve to be shot,then hanged,then burned.
'...till the Middle East knows the freedom the creator meant for all.'
--GWB
Scariest Believer stuff imaginable.
Bush: Essentially, 'I am merely a facilitator channeling God's will / purpose [via no-Casus belli-war].'
GWB, & other Believers in stuff for w/evidence is scant and /or contrary to available evidence, may arbitrarily determine 'God's will' and 'purpose of the world'. In this case, God's will (whoever this God person is anyway) follows an interesting patter in US history and Bible thing: US exceptionalism and civic religion. See John Winthrop's City upon a Hill and R Reagan's "Shining city upon a hill". lol Reagan's Jarusalem / America is shinier than the 1630s city.
Anyhow, it's just got to be exported because it's God's will. Call it "freedom" but don't mind following...
Sedition Act of 1798
19th century union busting.
(“Busting” = shooting, btw.)
Comstock Law of 1873:
Many books banned, e.g. Voltaire’s Candide, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, a lot of Mark Twain – my copy of “Life as I find It” by Twain was published in 1961. The law was used to ban information on birth control also.
First Red Scare 1917-1920
Sedition Act of 1918
[Movie] Production Code AKA Hays Code (1933/34-1967)
Comics Code Authority (1954-present)
Second Red Scare 1948?-1957
Free Speech Zones (?-present)
lol
tq
Is the fucktard trying to cite Graham Greene?....or Mr. Greenjeans?
Holy Crapola...this is exploding all over MSM.
If the President's misuse of the lessons of Vietnam sounds familiar, it should. After all, just last week 2008 Republican White House frontrunner Rudy Giuliani said virtually the same thing.
"America must remember one of the lessons of the Vietnam War. Then, as now, we fought a war with the wrong strategy for several years. And then, as now, we corrected course and began to show real progress. Many historians today believe that by about 1972 we and our South Vietnamese partners had succeeded in defeating the Vietcong insurgency and in setting South Vietnam on a path to political self-sufficiency. But America then withdrew its support, allowing the communist North to conquer the South...The consequences of abandoning Iraq would be worse."
For the details, see:
"Bush, Giuliani and Iraq as Vietnam."
U.S. President Bush Calls Gram Greene a Dumb Ass, Calls For "Pistols at Dawn."...Advisors later explain the authors death to the angered leader of the free world; they also mention the 500 plus in Iraq in the past week that joined Mr. Greene...
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Greg @ 16:
Facts? When did The Thugs care about Facts? We don need no stinking Facts.
Next week he's going to speak before another military group. Guess those ladies and gentlemen are the only ones he feels safe talking to these days and the only place he can get applause for his bullshit speeches.
I'm just waiting for the nam vets to speak up loud and clear.
How DARE that SOB invoke the great Graham Greene! I never thought I'd hear Dubya speak as if he (correction -- his speechwriters) knew anything about Mr. Greene. THE POWER & THE GLORY is my favorite book. I feel that Mr. Greene's good name has been tainted by coming out of the den of lies that is Dubya's oral cavity.
He must cease and desist!
That is all.
You can tell he's never read the Graham Greene book, and doesn't know the history of Vietnam. Just watch how he reads oh-so-carefully, so he doesn't fuck it up. Someone has made a specious arguement for him to put forth and he's read it. Maybe it was someone like axis-of-evil-Frumm.
He only talks from the heart on one subject;killing terra-ists (all Muslims). Imagimne his surprise to find out they come in "assorted varieties". Oh that must hurt his brain to keep track of.
It is a good thing his, not, speech was in huge bold print, and that he had read it more times than he can count, 'cause he pronounced every word. Not even a snicker. Cowards do feel shame. Was everyone frisked for signs?
Somebody should tell the Coward in Chief that the communist Vietnamese ended the "killing fields" by invading Cambodia and deposing Pol Pot.
The Draft Dodger's ignorance on the subject is belied by his mispronunciation of Phnom Penh and Khmer Rouge.
But, I guess that'll happen if you spend the war watching cartoons and snorting coke.
Just another "once we're there we can never ever leave" argument.
Today he said those wars were fought because of an ideology. Isn't that exactly what he is doing, trying to force his own ideology on the people in Iraq?
Headline: U.S. President Bush Calls Graham Greene a Dumb Ass, Calls For “Pistols at Dawn.”
…Advisors later explain the authors death to the angered leader of the free world; they also mention the 500 plus in Iraq in the past week that joined Mr. Greene … Bush launches invetigative commitee to reseach other literary figures prusumed alive ... blames Al Qaeda for loss to Library of Congress
Let Bush invoke Vietnam; the incumbent party got their ass handed to them for trying to fight a war no one wants while the opposing party got elected on the promise that they bring the troops home.
Gods Warrior @ 10:
OK.. Burn me. It's better than listening to this shit.
pissed off patricia @ 32:
He said that. He said both wars are being fought over ideologies.
Here's a primer on the topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWYIYsPtD0E
" I never knew a man who had better motives for all the trouble he caused " ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
He's not smart enough for intentional irony, sooooooo..............??????????
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Gods Warrior @ 23:
im my oppinion we could win faster if youd go down to the marine recruiting office and sighn up , and while your at it stop by your local churches and drag some of thoes uther chickenshit chickemhawks along with you, im proud of yah sonny get her done!
geno in ptown @ 2:
He's too stupid to care.
Edwin @ 35:
Yeah,the coward Godswarrior spoke from His bunker in Mommy's basement and hoping His pimples clear up.
Gods Warrior @ 38:
Hello sitemoniter! AHEM! Cough! Cough!
[Hello strawberry. Do you need a lozenge? Sitemonitor]
What about the other terms that have entered our vocabulary? Agent orange, napalm, quagmire, Mi Lai, secret bombing, Kent State and countless other marks of shame on our checkered history.....? Yes, such a fine war that Bushie is defending there.
I've written speeches on occasion. Many of them are swallowed whole by whoever commissions them.
Ever more so in the case of Bush, who is barely able to write his name, much less a speech.
I would bet that some smart-ass Replican speechwriter put in the Graham Greene reference, and Bush decidered to keep it in because he thinks it makes him look smart, an impossibility.
Of course, in his case, he probably thought he was quoting the actor from Dances With Wolves...
Thanks for that link, Weaseldog. Excellent! :lol:
Gods Warrior @ 38:
God has enough idiots who want to fight. why not find some of them and start one. Don't forget to use knives and guns to be sure you finish each other off. amen.
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Gods Warrior @ 23:
Yeah, and the moon is made of cheese. Go somewhere else with your kool-aid drinking!!
This speech is so laden with historical irony, so layered with ignorance and hypocrisy, it's difficult to map it all out.
How dare this AWOL cokehead frat-boy draft avoider lecture about the consequences of Vietnam, four years into another ill-concieved, pointless war, this time a far more dangerous one, that he himself started on the basis of known, proven lies?
And then, to support his case for staying in Iraq, he has the gall to quote Graham Greene's book about a misguided, naive American intelligence operative!!
What flaming idiocy!!
The very basis of the speech is bogus, even on Bush's terms. NOBODY, but NOBODY is claiming that pulling out of Iraq will improve the situation in the Middle East, as he implies with his references to stories in the press about Indochina in the mid-1970s.
He inexplicably quotes a comment from Greene's book, about the American agent: "I never knew a man who had better motives for all the trouble he caused".
What can Bush's men say in his defense? That they never knew a man with worst motives, and fewer qualifications or ability, for all the trouble HE caused.
So typically Bush. Invoke the memory of a complete disaster in order to bolster support for another disaster. What freakin idiot.
I was watching the news this afternoon when they went to the live feed of this speech. I honestly tried to watch it but when he started that cartoonish head bobbling act of his I could no longer take him seriously so I changed the channel and watched Emeril make chicken in a box instead.
What an unnatural reading of a speech. He clearly had no idea what he was quoting.
I feel really dirty after all of this. And not in a good way.
I must be living in some altered reality. Perhaps I'll wake up soon and Patrick Duffy and I can wonder where such dreams come from.
I'm really feeling ill right now though.
telecom @ 15:
Don't ask, don't tell.
Here is an op-ed by a con General they do not want you to read:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/22/batiste-conservatives/
Pass it around.
Great stuff.
Gods Warrior @ 47:
No sweetie, we're just worried about your mommy leaving you all alone with her computer and no adult supervision.
Gods Warrior @ 38:
Please don't feed the trolls. What we really need is a mandatory spay/neuter program to keep the troll population in check.
Jen @ 52:
In my opinion he's never made a speech where he sounded conscious, let alone like he knew what he was saying/quoting.
I especially love that he can't lift his eyes without losing the whole thing... then the inevitable stumble through inanity trying to find his way back to the words they've told him to recite. Always painful to hear/watch.
GWB: "At the outset of World War II there were only two democracies in the Far East -- Australia and New Zealand."
WTF?
China became a republic in 1912 and had an elected government, despite the fact that it was soon dominated by the corrupt Kuomintang (no more corrupt than the current U.S. regime, I suppose) and was fighting for its survival against Japan long before the U.S. managed to provoke Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.
Japan, itself, had been a parliamentary democracy prior to the military's effective seizing of control. In that respect, it wasn't that much different from the succession of repressive military regimes that ruled South Korea following America's glorious victory... oh, wait... we're still technically at war with North Korea. And wasn't the Korean War a civil war until we decided to get involved, turning it essentially into proxy struggle between Cold War adversaries? I suppose the Chimp considers Truman a traitor for refusing to "listen to his generals" and advance into China - or nuke China, for that matter. Real men go to Beijing, I suppose.
Hey! Even Australia, as a former colony and member of the Commonwealth, was subject, at least legally, to interference from the U.K. until the Australia Act of 1986!
BTW, you ignorant chimp, Thailand had a constitutional monarchy in 1932, though it arrived courtesy of a military coup not unlike the one that just went down several months ago in the same country.
Oh, and best not to mention that the reason there were so few democracies in the Far East was that most of the region was colonized by European powers - from whom the Japanese took valuable lessons on how to exploit the natives.
So if you want to ask the question: Why so few democracies in the Far East, go look in the friggin' mirror you ignorant buffoon.
CODA: The only reason that this kind of ahistorical nonsense can be spouted with almost complete impunity by one of the stupidest ass hats to ever receive an Ivy League diploma is that the average American is ABSOLUTELY clueless about history too, and this includes 90% of professional journalists who inanely parrot this shit.
Bush's speech ought to confirm, once and for all, that we are all well and truly screwed.
I'm not sure where the expression "blithering idiot" originates, but this president reminds us, once again today, that he is certainly both BLITHERING and an IDIOT.
Nir Rosen is dead-on correct again. Did you hear that the Asian Cup-winning Iraqi national football (soccer) team were all given visas to leave the country? They are not ever coming back. They played to escape from Iraq, and won.
Ok, Ok. Calm down. Are we really that surprised? Do you really think anyone outside the 25% listens anymore? Look, the average high school graduate can't find Canada on a map let alone Vietnam and they certainly don't give a damn about its history. The only saving grace is that you couldn't get most people to pay attention to anything about this subject unless Anjelina and Brad were going there to adopt Britany and Ken Watenabe's Amer-asian love child. So take a deep breath. Ahhhhh, that's better.
Strawberry (42), I was thinking the same thing. It's either a joke or it needs to be gone. Although in ways, it's kind of funny and pathetic at the same time.
Dhalgren @ 61:
I should clarify....after they won the tournament, Maliki gave them the visas. Incredible.
There you have it. The new way forward. Wait until 58,000 American soldiers are dead and then pull out.
Gods Warrior @ 47:
No,GW You won't be 'censored'. We'll allow You to prove morons should stay silent but can't.
[Actually, we did take away all of his posts. But he was posting with the intent to inflame, not have an exchange of ideas with an eye toward civil or nearly civil discourse. It had nothing to do with his ideology, only with his inability to be polite-Sitemonitor]
David Hawes @ 17:
You have the order wrong. Burn, then hang, then shoot.
Gods Warrior @ 47:
well you cant really call rabid chickenhawks people
I think Bush does got a point though. What would the aftermath of w/drawing be?
It's basically a situation where ur damned if u do and damned if u dont.
and no im not a troll from the reich wing.
Professor Bush is teaching Literature and History now?
Hey, he can read. Remember he told us he read "two Shakespeares"
Too bad someone didn't ask him which two. That would have been choice entertainment.
edgar @ 67:
OK I Like your method
pissed off patricia @ 32:
Tha's what ideologues do. They have one-track minds and are convinced they are always right. That's why they are so dangerous. (It's really an excuse to stop thinking.)
It was ol' 5 deferrments Dick who probably suggested he make the 'Nam comparison seeing as he's such an expert on that conflict.
Gods Warrior @ 23:
What "news" reported that the "surge is working". The only "people" that reported such a thing are reich-wing shills working for faux and a.m hate radio.
Read THIS if you want the truth about the failing surge.....written by soldiers actually fighting the war! You twit.
Gods Warrior @ 38:
Your leader. I have to good fortune to NOT be an American. Good luck with that. When are you enlisting?
pissed off patricia @ 71:
He meant the titles on the covers of the movies they rented for him.
We now have the ultimate proof that there is no such thing as psychic powers.
With the unprecedented, worldwide tsunami of loathing projected at this vile excuse for a man, he's still breathing.
strawberry @ 20:
How is it playing? Is there outrage, support, or indifference? I'm asking because I can't bring myself to watch the MSM.
I watched a French propaganda piece about Viet Nam from the fifties. What did they call the opposing forces, you ask? That's right, terrorists. Bush has singlehandedly started up the cold war again too. What a flaming jackass!
strawberry @ 8:
maybe the effects from the stuff they pump into him to get him going is starting to take it's toll.
how can a man who did everything he could not to fight in vietnam now use the war to defend himself?
this is a dangerous gamble that is going to backfire on bush bigtime
If we would have remembered the lessons of the Viet Nam war, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place.
The folly that we are in with Iraq is because, Bush, Wolfawitz, Rummy, Cheney put aside the lessons that we learned in Viet Nam for
their own greed for riches and power.
Bush has got a lot of nerve now pumping up the war that he and Cheney so desperatley tried to avoid personal service in.
"The speech was an act of desperation to scare the American people into staying the course in Iraq. He's distorted the facts, painting all of the people in Iraq as being on the same side which is simply not the case. Iraq is a religious civil war." _ Lawrence Korb, assistant defense secretary under President Reagan and now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank in Washington.
"Bush is cherry-picking history to support his case for staying the course. What I learned in Vietnam is that U.S. forces could not conduct a counterinsurgency operation. The longer we stay there, the worse it's going to get." _ Ret. Army Brig. Gen. John Johns, a counterinsurgency expert who served in Vietnam.
"The president emphasized the violence in the wake of American withdrawal from Vietnam. But this happened because the United States left too late, not too early. It was the expansion of the war that opened the door to Pol Pot and the genocide of the Khmer Rouge. The longer you stay the worse it gets." _ Steven Simon, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Edwin @ 76:
Enlist? that turd hasn't got Laid yet.
btw, he looked tossed off his ass. his body language and everything. I think that was what we call "liquid courage"
I'm not sure he could even do that, MargeAggedon. I still wish the interviewer had asked the titles. Can you see him quickly trying to come up with the titles of two of Shakespeare's works.
This was painful to watch. Listining to our President lecture us about Graham Greene and the straw-man argument that if we leave Iraq, the violence will stop (no one I know has argued that - they have said that if we leave Iraq, the American casualties in Iraq will stop). Iraq is pulling itself apart. Nir Rosen is the opposite of the Neocons, Wingnuts,and War Hawks. Everything he has reported and predicted has been CORRECT.
And the bit about Cambodia....that is really painful. Pol Pot and killing fields arose because we destabilized Cambodia......by secretly bombing it during one of our surges in Vietnam. Our exit didn't make the killing fields possible. We had already set the stage.
Edwin @ 76:
Methinks me smells some satire. Besides, if one truly believes in Heaven, and truly believes in his own salvation therefore is going to that Heaven ... wouldn't you be hoping against all hope that it is indeed Armegeddon? I know I would. Why do they fear the paradise that they are so convinced exists? It's driving toward your vacation destination, talking about how great it's going to be once you get there, but then dreading your arrival the whole trip. It no makey the sense.
I will ignore the President's insipid inability to correctly pronounce words and go straight to the heart of the matter. Cambodia would never have been under the rule of the Khemer Rouge had we not bombed it. I also recall George Bush Sr. having some hand in proping them up but i forget the details.
edgar @ 80:
the main forces fighting the french in indo china were called vietmin and they allso used vietcong type forces , as america has been doing the french used torture when questioning prisoners , thoes doing the torture? ss troopers from hitlers gang of murderers , guess the gitmo prisoners had it better!
Let's see, a no-good wrung-out deadbeat rich punk who weaseled, lied, whored and drank his way through the entire Vietnam era while his fellow countrymen, albeit some reluctantly, nonetheless served in the combat theater......
Now, with a cranium scarred by decades of alcohol and drug abuse, Bush considers himself qualified to tell America what it was all really about, how great the war he blindly started really is, and by extension how stupid we all are for having remembered history correctly......
You don't suppose Karl Rove was so disgusted by the implications of this speech, that THAT was why he resigned early?
telecom @ 15:
He wants to kiss them gently and make tender love to them.
bush's brain is alive and well and festering in bush's speechwriter.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to ............ sound like blithering idiots.
PurplePatriot @ 79:
I was going to say CNN had David Gergen on and he blasted Bush but it looks like goatsage beat me to the punch. Great work goatsage!!!!
Many people want to serve God, but only in an advisory capacity.
Hey, Rove's gone, now somebody else is working Shrub's strings--Cheney?
It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.
anon @ 30:
Exactly!!! Vietnam intervened in Cambodia to end Pol Pot's regime.
pissed off patricia @ 88:
Yes. And I can see him quickly turning into that petulant three year old he always becomes when someone "upsets" his widdle self. You know, like when people ask him real questions and then have the gall to expect answers? He's painfully stupid on a regular basis. When he's upset he's a mental/verbal cluster fuck.
John Amato wrote:
"That’s why “war” is such a monumental decision ...and the American people can’t be lied into such a situation."
We WERE lied into such a situation. We can't trust the media to report objectively any more. Who can we trust nowadays?
This was a pathetic, desperate, lame duck attempt to keep his lost occupation going until he is gone.
Malarki told him to GFY and w said he was a nice guy.
The Brits lost Basra, w lost Malarki and this occupation is lost.
Reid was right.
"It is undoubtedly true that America's failure in Vietnam led to catastrophic consequences in the region, especially in Cambodia," said David Hendrickson, a specialist on the history of American foreign policy at Colorado College.
"But there are a couple of further points that need weighing," he added. "One is that the Khmer Rouge would never have come to power in the absence of the war in Vietnam - this dark force arose out of the circumstances of the war, was in a deep sense created by the war. The same thing has happened in the Middle East today. Foreign occupation of Iraq has created far more terrorists than it has deterred."
When he began this speech today he sounded like he was running for president. He was talking about vet health care and how he had done so much for vets and all. Then he said, with geo w bush as your president this is what you'll get. It was a strange moment. He was talking loud and determined like a guy on the campaign trail. I think he lost it for a moment or something. Then he went into his down south good old boy sounding voice. Then he switched to his preacher voice for the rest of the time.
"The U.S. opposed the Vietnamese military occupation of Cambodia, and in the mid-1980s supported insurgents opposed to the regime of Heng Samrin, approving $5 million in aid to the Khmer People's National Liberation Front of former prime minister Son Sann and the pro-Sihanouk ANS in 1985. Regardless of this, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge remained the best-trained and most capable of the three insurgent groups who, despite sharply divergent ideologies, had formed the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea (CGDK) alliance three years earlier. China continued to funnel extensive military aid to the Khmer Rouge, and critics of U.S. foreign policy claimed that the U.S. was indirectly sponsoring the Khmer Rouge due to U.S. assistance given the CGDK in keeping control of the United Nations "seat" of Cambodia."
Perhaps Bush should discuss these speaches with dad?
Hmmm... so maybe we've finally arrived at "der Führer in the bunker" moment of the Bush presidency. Soon he'll berating his generals and demanding that the invisible divisions be moved around on the map, while his regime collapses around him.
I pray to all the gods that I live to see Dick Cheney's Hermann Göering Nuremberg moment, berating the military tribunal and shouting: "I am not part of the Executive Branch!"
As for the Dear Leader, let him learn from the Führer himself how to bring down the curtain. If I was Laura and Barney I'd be on the next plane out of town.
Viet Nam. Didn't Georgie wear his flight suit over here so he wouldn't have to wear it over there?
lwoolf @ 43:
Moratorium, illegal roundup of protesters, enemies list, agents provacateur [most likely].
Anyone obtuse enough to call themselves "God's Warrior" is obviously as delusional as herr dubyah.
"It was not a precipitous withdrawal, it was a very deliberate disengagement," said Andrew Bacevich, a platoon leader in Vietnam and now professor of international relations at Boston University.
"The Vietnam comparison should invite us to think harder about how to minimize the consequences of our military failure," he added. "If one is really concerned about the Iraqi people, and the fate that may be awaiting them as this war winds down, then we ought to get serious about opening our doors and to welcoming to the United States those Iraqis who have supported us.' "
Michele @ 100:
Michael Ware on CNN will tell the truth.
He is doing a report as I type.
Oh boy! Sign me up for some of that "Heaven" shit! I can't WAIT for an eternity of forced fawning over the bastardized sky-god, and the chance to hang out with all the self-righteous assholes who got in on a technicality!
hadenuf @ 107:
Don't forget COINTELPRO
PurplePatriot @ 90:
Satire? He needs to bone up on Imus,then. Ol' GW is wacking off on his KFed poster and praying His pimple cream works.
getalife @ 110:
Um, ouch. It's worse than we thought.
I know we have all seen the picture of bush sitting in the cockpit of a jet, but do you really think the guy was smart enough to learn to fly one of those things on his own? I mean really, do you? My uncle was a jet pilot and doing that chore is not as simple as driving a golf cart, or a truck around on private property.
pissed off patricia @ 103:
Whew! Talk about multiple personalities!
Thanks for watching POP so we didn't have to.
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
What a wierd speech. is he arguing that ending the Vietnam war is good or bad? Up until he started talking about boat people and killing fields I really thought the speech could have gone either way.
It would be very easy to add one or two words to the middle of this speech to turn it into a very good argument for getting out of vietnam and avoiding illigitamate wars of choice. Talk about the 3 million dead vietnames and then contrast them with with hundred thousands of refugee deaths from the pull out... and then contrast the million dead Iraqis and the fewer casualties that would result from our leaving.
Its really hard to argue what 10 years after we left Vietnam that it would have been better if we stayed. I think the same argument applies to todays Iraq. Hopefully the Democrats that win in 2008 will get us out quickly so that the time of peace in Iraq can come quicker.
Bronwen Maddox, at the Times Online (UK), lays it out nicely:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/bronwen_maddox/artic...
Sure he's "read" the book he quoted. From front cover to back cover- and nothing in between.
Perhaps, and more likely, someone else wrote the speech and thought, "My! How intelligent is this moron going to sound after he reads this little ditty!" Then, as the speechwriter listened to his amazing words flow forth from the slow drawl of Bush, he, or she, knew they'd managed to recreate Frankenstein’s monster.
Gods Warrior @ 117:
id join up and help but im gods warrior and not going nah nah nah nahhhhh
This is the end.
SevenString @ 111:
I'm signing up for some of that Hell shit. That's where all the fun people will be. Sure it'll be hot, but I won't have to listen to this anymore.
strawberry @ 8:
He was trying very hard to hide his smirk.
Bush is one ugly American.
listen, we wouldnt be in this mess if Clinton had just acted when he had the chance
[Blame Clinton. And this coming from Canada. Trolling with flamebait. Tell the rest of you story to the spam filter, eh? Sitemonitor]
James Denselow, an Iraq analyst at King's College, London, told the BBC: "This smacks of spin, a last throw of the dice designed to pre-empt the anti-war lobby and justify the US's continued presence.
"This is an issue of how America goes to war, and how it gets out of it. It is rare for a leader in a democracy to take a country into war, and to take the country out."
Gods Warrior @ 126:
Hey GW,how's that pimple cream workin?
Gods Warrior @ 126:
thats so god damned stupid it dont deserve an answe to it!
Gods Warrior @ 126:
oh, yeah you doofis... Clinton getting us involved in an ill conceived war of choise would have solved everything. Instead of the 5th year of war we could be in the 15th.
Thanks for playing, now go back into your bomb shelter.
Try to catch the last 15 minutes at least tonight of Hardball. Mike Barnicle (sp?) asks, " Did bush ever read a book about Vietnam?" And it just gets better after that.
winterbear @ 131:
and stop peeking at the boys in the showers in the gym!
listen, we wouldnt be in this mess if Clinton had just acted when he had the chance, yes Bush made a few mistakes, but at least he is man enough to admit it, unlike you libs.
God Warrior,
You are dead wrong and you know it. Clinton via the Republican party had more than enough to handle and he did more to combat terrorism than Bush ever will. Bush creates more than he kills. sounds like your God made more mistakes than you're willing to admit to. Of course you're only here to throw fuel on the fire. I suggest you watch out and not burn your tail.
Gods Warrior @ 132:
That's cute.
Gods Warrior @ 132:
Ummmm....No YOU lowered it ,pimple face. Please give your FACTS as, so far all you've invoked is some bible bullshit.
lets debate the facts
Then by all means begin to use them.
Gods Warrior @ 126:
Study this quote, fellow posters. It speaks volumes about the 22% who still support this corrupt regime and hide behind Gawd to justify the crimes of their heros. It is up to us to make sure these folks are banished to the political hinterlands for decades to come. (although they sure make it easy with comments like this!)
tyree @ 121:
yes god is the ideal excuse for a lot of things. That's what the word 'god' means right? It's Aramaic for "bullshit excuse"
So GW, which gods do you fight for? I'm an Apollo and Athena man myself.
As I recall the only mistakes bush admitted to was that he shouldn't have said things like "dead or alive" and "bring 'em on" I don't recall him saying he should have paid attention to the report that he received before 9-11, telling UBL was intending to strike America.
goatsage @ 137:
Very easy. It's almost unfair....... Not Really.
God's Warrior, I have tried to imagine Jesus dropping depleted uranium warheads indisceminately on helpless Iraqis while He strafes those fleeing with the machine gun, but it doesn't match the description of Him that I was taught in Sunday school. And if this was the war to end all wars why do you immediately say Iran is next?
Facts + Reich-wingers = non-existent
winterbear @ 130:
Double-wides have bomb shelters?
SevenString (139) :lol: :lol:
And why did we go into Vietnam?
Herbert Hoover, later to become President of the United States did a study that showed that one of the world's largest oil fields ran along the coast of the South China Sea right off French Indo-China, now known as Vietnam.
And why are we in Iraq....
Gods Warrior @ 126:
You MORON.
When Clinton sent US troops and bombers into Somalia and Kosovo, Republicans sneeringly called it "nation-building", "overreaching", "not our fight", etc., and tried to limit the president's ability to fight war by congressional motions.
Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly fall all over themselves criticizing Clinton's wars, including his attempt to kill Bin Laden in Sudan.
"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
Voltaire
pissed off patricia @ 26:
Aren't the military under direct orders to clap and cheer for the dipshit?
That is why he speaks only to the military.
RPM-45,
You make a valid point and your question I am quite sure will go unanswered despite whether GWarrior responds or not.
Bush, in citing the genocide in Cambodia, fails to explain that the killing fields there were a direct result of American intervention, specifically the 1970 bombing and incursion of U.S. and South Vietnamese troops looking for fleeing Viet Cong, and the resulting instability that we caused, as outlined in Wm. Shawcross's brilliant "Sideshow." So, Yes, Virginia, if we weren't in Vietnam Pol Pot and his murderous khmer rouge might never have overthrown King Sihounouk (sic).
Yet another pack of lies from the biggest liar in American history.
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