Maj. General Paul Eaton On Bush Viet Nam Comparison: "An Unfortunate Trip Back Into History"
On Tuesday's "Countdown" retired Major General Paul Eaton gave his view on the Viet Nam comparisons made by President Bush in his speech today. Needless to say, he was not impressed and slammed Bush, comparing his failures in Iraq to those made during the Viet Nam conflict and his misunderstanding of the basic facts. Maj. General Eaton has long been a critic of the president and the Republican party for the devastating damage they've done to our military.
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Stewart: "...As a veteran, what did you think when you heard the president was going to go down this road, giving this speech to this audience. Aren't there other issues out there he might have addressed?"
Eaton: "My father's name is engraved on the Viet Nam War Memorial. Killed in action after - missing in action for 38 years. I thought it was a bad idea to start going down this uh - this slink to Viet Nam during this speech. It was - it did not serve the country well, it does not serve the American fighting man and woman in Iraq well, and it certainly doesn't serve the veterans well."
If the President's misuse of the lessons of Vietnam sounds familiar, it should. After all, just last week 2008 Republican White House frontrunner Rudy Giuliani said virtually the same thing.
"America must remember one of the lessons of the Vietnam War. Then, as now, we fought a war with the wrong strategy for several years. And then, as now, we corrected course and began to show real progress. Many historians today believe that by about 1972 we and our South Vietnamese partners had succeeded in defeating the Vietcong insurgency and in setting South Vietnam on a path to political self-sufficiency. But America then withdrew its support, allowing the communist North to conquer the South...The consequences of abandoning Iraq would be worse."
For the details, see:
"Bush, Giuliani Agree on Iraq-Vietnam Parallels."
Bush said today: "Iraq is Vietnam, and We should have stayed in Vietnam"
What does Bush know about Viet Nam? Or his speech writers? Maybe he learned something from all the books he's been reading on his extended vacations, or maybe all his nondraft dodging friends have been tutoring him.
This guy ought to run for office or be Secretary of Defense.
A guy who invaded Iraq... not only that, a guy who lied to get out of Vietnam said: "Iraq is Vietnam, we should have stayed in Vietnam." Bush gave the worse speech in human history today. This speech today is the most insulting thing Bush has ever said.
Seize this moment, this speech today marks the end of the GOP. The GOP hung themselves today. For years to come, bush's speech will be studied, as the worst speech anyone has ever made, at the most inappropriate time ever, by the most inappropriate person ever.
How could one of God's creations be so stupid as George Bush was today?
said that
Pretty soon Bush will be comparing himself to Napolean saying that he should have stayed in Russia.
-GSD
Whoa. Eaton is impressive.
In confusing Al Queda and Bin Laden with our occupation of Iraq, Bush reminds us what this war really is - not a War on Terror, but a War on Islam.
Did he (Eaton) imply we could have won in Vietnam had it not been for the poor civilian leadership and that parallels today's situation?
time to man up
WORST PRESIDENT EVER.
ah, another GOP lying talking point. If you hear it from one, you will hear it from all and they will continue to screech it until it reaches a cacophony of noise like a room full of first year band students.
They try to rewrite history and drown out reality with their noisy lies. It has worked before, it might just work again.
Nearly 35 years have passed since we pulled our major combat units out of Viet Nam, 32 have passed since our helicopters were evacuating people out of Saigon. Still, after all these years, it is a fresh wound on the American psyche. One would think that Boosh would have enough sense not to pick at the scab.
Well, the president probably just has some PTSD from his Vietnam years. I understand all that alcohol and cocaine can cause that.
Gregory said...
"One would think that Boosh would have enough sense not to pick at the scab."
Bush doesn't have sense enough to not talk with his mouth, full much less have any depth of feelings about national psyche.
does the administration read wikipedia? it seems this quote from bush's speech was inserted into there. it's almost verbatim and it's marked "citation needed"
"Hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese officials, particularly ARVN officers, were imprisoned in reeducation camps after the Communist takeover.[citation needed] Tens of thousands died and many fled the country after being released. Up to two million civilians left the country, and as many as half of these boat people perished at sea.[citation needed]"
mister mix @ 15:
Yes. They are becoming experts at inserting information(?) and wiping out embarrassing facts.
Bush would do better to compare the Iraq war to Star Wars. They had all those cool looking robots and stuff. Bush, of course, would be Jar Jar Binks.
There should be nation wide publicized celebrations the day Bush is out of office.
Anyone who visits his library should be considered a deviant.
George Bush deserves to live the rest of his days knowing how much damage he has done and he deserves the guilt and shame.
But being the sociopath he is, he won't.
Gosh who to trust?
Cap. Chickenhawk or General Eaton?
mister mix @ 15:
Hell yeah I just read the whole Vietnam War article just a few days last evening. It was a story of misery in all aspects. You can be happy the whole day and end up down just by reading it.
foolme1ns @ 17:
yes he could relate the "axis of evil" to the EMPIRE. he could be then link himself to luke and laura to leia.
Am I missing something ? ( not that that ever happens ) Eaton was supporting shrub's argument in a round about way was he not? He blamed the civilian leadership for the Vietnam loss and said it is like the situation now, meaning he thinks this burning quicksand called Iraq is salvageable. WTF?
seevee @ 22:
I was a bit confused too.
How dare Bush even MENTION Vietnam?
A conflict that his daddy's power and wealth kept him safely out of?
A conflict that other less fortunate men and women fought and died in.
Unfortunately, Eaton pays a certain amount of homage to the "Dolchstoss" idea by saying the military angle was going well under Abrams and it was the civilian leadership that had no vision, no strategic plan--which presupposes that any plan could have been adequate to the task envisaged. It's one of the harder to kill myths of Iraq as in Vietnam that somehow, if it had only been "managed better" it could have come up roses. This is patently untrue, and plays into right-wing fantasies about the capabilities of power in the service of imperialist war. When the locals don't want you there, you will eventually lose, no matter how much treasure you pour in--unless you are prepared to become monstrous, genocidal brutes. We are not, nor should we ever be.
Eaton makes some good points, but the basic premise that the mission was ever achievable continues to be flawed.
pinkobait @ 24:
i thought that too until i realized that mentioning Vietnam isn't as bad as starting it, ie Iraq War.
I've not heard anyone else mention this, but something I clearly recall at the end of Gulf War I, Daddy Bush was reveling in post-victory celebration appearances and speeches; in one particular such event filmed for TV news he boasted "We've finally got the Vietnam thing behind us!" or something to that effect - implying that as a result of overwhelming victory in Iraq, America was now restored to its rightful status as winners instead of losers of wars. I remember saying back to the TV "Don't be too sure about that". I sure would like to see if anyone else recalls that and puts it on youtube.
In the recent edition of Vanity Fair, there is an article by the late David Halberstam, written sometime ago, on the Administration's misunderstanding and misuse of history... it is well worth a look and nails this issue cold! See the url below...
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/08/halberstam200708
Bush is such a comedian. He talks about Vietnam like he had been there. What a Chickenhawk. War is fun after all when you know that your not going to die.
jxn
My take exactly. And when we eventually leave Iraq, we'll have to put up with 75 years of hearing "blame the liberals" for the enevitable bad outcome, even though it was the neocons who got us in, not the liberals. Sucks.
The only thing that Bush can claim in comparing the two conflicts is that he seem both wars on the nightly news.
A real comparison between Iraq and Vietnam can occur on Sept. 11 after the WH puts out their BS on the surge provided that some shape news person will dig up the CIA's 1967 assessment of the win ability of the war in Vietnam. It is worth noting that the CIA projections about Vietnam were ignored by LBJ the same as Bush has ignored everything that differs with his warped visions of success that now kills about 100 fails to agree with.
GeeTee-Daddy also said-"read my lips-no new taxes".
That went over well...
Bush will want to march on Stalingrad any day now.
Notice General Eaton's comments on a "diplomatic surge". For everyone who wants to leave Iraq on something like 24 hours notice - it's just not possible. For everyone who wants to leave Iraq in 4-6 months with a chance to limit the damage that this administration has done, this administration has to attempt real diplomacy with Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and others.
The military surge is not enough and unfortunately, having made itself a virtual international pariah, this administration seems to lack either the will or the ability to engage in meaningful diplomacy.
Anyone with any doubt as to how this mess is going to end is advised to read Barbara Tuchman's "The March of Folly". It'll probably inspire you to read "A Distant Mirror" also by Tuchman. The former an easy read. Spot on and thrilling. The latter a really tough slog but worth every moment.
Bob Roberts @ 34:
Yuppers! We be fucked...with no cuddling afterward.
will fudger @ 35:
Read them twenty years ago. Timeless.
It was - it did not serve the country well, it does not serve the American fighting man and woman in Iraq well, and it certainly doesn’t serve the veterans well.
And when did Bush ever show that he cares about the American fighting man and woman and veterans?
Listening to these "retired generals" lately (as well as Hillary Clinton), as lead me to believe that the media is preparing the American public that we will be in Iraq for at least (3) years.
Coming from a military family, I know that the troops could be home within (6) months. The government and military brass can not let go of a terribly bad idea.
Vietnam sucked big time. I was just a kid at the time, but I saw how the Vietnam War totally screwed the morale and lives of many military families. I see the same thing happening with the military in Iraq.
I disagree with the good general that it was only bad civilian policy makers that made Vietnam the debacle that it became. The military was very complicit with the conduct of the war. He needs to read the Pentagon Papers and champion the anti-war movement that made the voice of the people and reason known.
And yes, I have friends on "The Wall" also. The Vietnam Memorial has many messages. One being "Never Again!"
The only thing that Bush can claim in comparing the two conflicts is that he seem both wars on the nightly news.
A sharp news man should dig out the "CIA's assessment of the win ability of the war in Vietnam" done in 1967. Take out Vietnam and insert Iraq. Might be real interesting when one considers that the majority of casualties occurred after this report was published.
Eaton: “My father’s name is engraved on the Viet Nam War Memorial. Killed in action after - missing in action for 38 years. I thought it was a bad idea to start going down this uh - this slink to Viet Nam during this speech. It was - it did not serve the country well, it does not serve the American fighting man and woman in Iraq well, and it certainly doesn’t serve the veterans well.”
Neither does bush. How can anyone expect this punk, pretending to be a prez, expect him to display competence, sanity, and respect? America has dug herself a deep hole and she's gonna have a Hell of a time getting out.
Eaton is just singing for his supper to the tune of the music supplied by moveon and soros.
Today, Wed. Michael Ware on CNN gave a breakdown on what is going on in Iraq and explains how the US has taken over the Iraqi Government from their Military to their Intelligence Dept. It gives a bleak picture and explains ALOT on why Bush and his cronies want to stay put in Iraq.
I would bet our Government is robbing the Iraqi Government blind and thats why the US is in total control of every aspect in Iraq because if the Iraqi Goverment ever took command of their own country they would see what has been going on and why they have to ask permission to wipe their butts for all this time. Bush/Cheney have no intention of having the Iraqi's stand up so we could stand down....at least not till Bush's U-Haul carts his butt out of the WH.
If anyone has that clip from Michael Ware its worth posting and watching. These are things our Government doesnt want made public. Its a real eye opener and it sort of puts things in perspective and explains alot. :(
Thats why Maliki is kicking and screaming lately since some of our Senators want him ousted. He has been the puppet for Bush and his buds and now to have some of our officials demand he leave is like kicking the whipping boy out the door. Maliki has been the silent slow moving puppet because the US Government has told him to operate in low gear. He is merely following orders from our Government. Thats why Bush keeps saying he has confidence in him and says Maliki's job is hard work. Bush cant afford to tick off his main puppet there.
Bush flip-flops. Where are those flip flop smacking young republicans when you need them?
Press Conference, 4/13/2004
Q Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President, April is turning into the deadliest month in Iraq since the fall of Baghdad, and some people are comparing Iraq to Vietnam and talking about a quagmire. Polls show that support for your policy is declining and that fewer than half Americans now support it. What does that say to you and how do you answer the Vietnam comparison?
THE PRESIDENT: I think the analogy is false. I also happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops, and sends the wrong message to the enemy.
Bush will try anything to appease the Pajamas Media mouth-breathers
OK, everyone already commented on what an idiot Chimpy is for saying this and how impressive Eaton's response is, so I'll make a crass comment ... Eaton is hot. Grrrr ... Daddy.
I agree with JXN and seevee. The American public *still* doesn't understand what happened in Vietnam. First, we could not have won if we had managed the war better. That became clear in 1968 after Tet.
Second, we were not fighting the North Vietnamese, or as our propaganda derogatively called them, the Viet Cong. Most of the bombs we dropped were in South Vietnam. The Vietnamese, both from North and South, did not want us there. If we had never decided to invade Vietnam, there would not have been a war. Ho Chi Minh would have been elected by about 90 percent of the population, both from the North and South.
The whole idea that there were two parts of the country is bizzarre in itself. The country was divided only as part of a temporary solution in 1956. The Paris peace accords clearly stated that this division was temporary. It also stated that elections should be held in 1958, and that neither side should build up military force. The US violated all 3 parts of this peace accord, including suprressing elections, with the excuse that the Communist wouldn't know what a election was.
Last, the Vietnamese in the south part of the country did not want us there, almost to a man. The only people who wanted us there were the corrupt leaders who we propped up, the first of whom Kennedy let get assasinated because he just didn't work out.
You can find all of this info in the Pentagon Papers.
This guy comes off as one no nonsense SOB--that's a compliment. Looks like he could beat the shit out of the Shrub-in-Chief before breakfast and not break a sweat.
Can you imagine if he were Shrub's commanding officer in the Tex-ass Air National Guard? BWAHAHAHAHA!!
It is going to be worse than Veitnam!
The war is going to be escalated to the neighboring countries.
If the truth were known, I'd bet we are already in the thick of running reconnaisance missions inside Iran's borders setting things up for the inevitable air strike.
there is a stunning parallel from nam to iraq
we entered the nam conflict as a result of the gulf of tonkin incident...an incident we all now know never happened....where the johnson administration used false intel to spur the american public into supporting an illegal and ill thought out war
well, at least he didnt bring up ww2 again
Does anyone feel a DRAFT???
A couple of weeks ago, a Republican floated a trial baloon over reinstating the military draft.
Now, Bush draws a comparison between his Iraq War and the Vietnam War, with the one major difference being that we had a military draft back then, while today's military is all-volunteer.
I think these two events, though weeks apart, are connected.
And corresponds with the recent Bush/Cheney-generated hysteria associated with their wanting to attack Iran and today's "leak" that this attack will occur within the next six months.
If this attack does occur, then I foresee not only a draft being called for due to the expansion of Bush's war beyond Iraq's borders, but I also foresee the collapse of the U.S. economy sometime early next year, brought on not only by Bush/Cheney insanely attacking Iran, but also by their calling for martial law nationwide, shortly after any retaliatory attack by the Iranians inside the United States.
This is the chain of events I see happening unless Bush and Cheney are stopped. Impeach them both NOW. Save our country.
plainbrown1 @ 28:
I agree ...we have lost a great mind .
I also suggest all reading in the September Vanity Fair the Editor's Letter "Three Horsemen of the Apocalypse"
I am contacting my Reps today regarding this latest push...one the Viet Nam comparison and two the 15 million campaign now on to make us change our minds on Iraq. Give the 15 million to New Orleans . I continue to be outraged and now know it will not leave me until the day Bush walks out of our White House and goes back to his bushes.
Don't be a dick, wack your prick.
I thought the whole point about the Vietnam "upheavals" was that there weren't any.
The killing fields in Cambodia were probably a consequence of our bombing and invading that country.
I do understand the reasons shrub invoked vietnam.
1. desperation. It's say anything time.
2. all the good speech writers have quit.
3. all the best lies have already been used.
4. it was also a war for profit.
EZ @ 49:
It's already a 'world' war. It effects everyone. I am particularly chagrined by the Canadian sacrifice and losses that go completely unspoken and unnoticed. But then they're just Canadians so who cares right?
Seele^ @ 2:
Bush needs to go back to school. And this time pay attention.
I found 2 sites that have the video that Michael Ware did yesterday.
Its a must see and it explains alot of why we will continue to be stuck in Iraq as long as Bush/Cheney are our leaders. We are the ones holding back the Iraq Government from what this report explains so in other words we are continuing to make the mess in Iraq even greater. Could explain why Generals who were there are suddenly gone and now speaking out.
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=49750&cl=3804365&ch=497...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/22/iraq.democracy/index.html#cnnS...
say isn't loyal bushie Karen Hughes in charge of wimming the hearts and minds
paul,
you are correct. the only reason there was a war in vietnam is because we were there. we started our own war and blamed it on others. how convenient for the military industrial complex. after world war 2, ho chi minh turned to us for help in rebuilding vietnam. he was leery of both chang and mao in china. he did not want to become a puppet of either. however, in the ongoing tragedy of american foriegn policy after ww2, we fucked that up too. ho only turned to newly communist china as his only hope for help against the french and the rest is history.
today, we see the fool w repeating the same mistakes. prior to the biggest mistake in american military history-invading iraq-iraq was the most pro-western country in the middle east. now iraq is our greatest enemy in the middle east. with w's little or nothing knowledge of history, he compares iraq to vietnam. w knows just enough about history to be dangerous, just like the idiots who compare this misbegotten war on terror to ww2. is there anyone in w's alleged administration that can tell the fool that there is an american embassy located at 7 lang ha st. in hanoi and that trade with vietnam has been dramatically increasing every year since the lifting of the trade embargo in 1994? 52,000 american troops had to die fighting an alleged enemy who we are now friendly with. the same result would have been accomplished with absolutely zero american casualties. like every other lesson in w's sad excuse for a life, he never learned the lesson of vietnam and now he has the audacity to "lecture" intelligent americans about something he knows absolutely nothing about.
It served the undertakers well.
woodguy @ 48:
My only knock on Maj. General Eaton is that while he has the long-range vision of an Eisenhower, he says his piece way too slowly and doesn't articulate it passionately enough, at least by contemporary television standards. Maybe some viewers here were easily able to focus on what he had to say, but I had to keep slapping myself about the face just to stay awake long enough to get through this segment.
Major General Eaton should be General Wesley Clarke's running mate.
[...] FORMER MAJOR WEIGHS IN ON VIETNAM [...]
We had to leave Vietnam.....because Bush wouldn't go.....
We needed his Yale Cheer-leading Team...an "Bring em on" songs.
But Georgie was "missing in action", or was that "missing the action", somewhere Stateside?
Maybe he can still dust off his pompoms an wing over to Iraq?
The half times not over yet .....Georgie!
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