Ground Zero of Dreams
“A people unaware of its myths is likely to continue living by them, though the world around that people may change and demand changes in their psychology, their world view, their ethics, and their institutions.” — Richard Slotkin, Regeneration Through Violence
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A couple of days ago I got an advance copy of a book by Susan Faludi titled The Terror Dream
Faludi explores what September 11 did to our national psyche. In short, Americans as a whole did not respond to September 11 clearly and honestly. Instead, we retreated into a dreamworld of John Wayne cinematic epics and frontier melodrama. In this spectacular we cast ourselves as both the hero and the damsel in distress. The villain role has been filled by a rotating cast — Osama bin Laden, of course, but also Saddam Hussein, France, the United Nations, liberals, various straw man characters allegedly representing liberalism (Ward Churchill, whoever the hell he is, comes to mind), Democrats, the entire Middle East (excluding Israel, of course) and the entire religion of Islam.
Keep reading ...
The only thing I believed was Bin Laden was responsible......the rest was all bullshit...
"What we had was a chest beater in a borrowed flight suit, instructing us to max our our credit cards for the cause."
Excellent.
mudshark @ 1:
And yet apparently, he's still one of Bush's spokespersons.
So, we are doing a fumigation study this week, measuring the rate that gaseous pesticides leave the soil after preparing the ground for strawberries. Also, we are looking at a couple other things, so we have vacuums, generators, weather stations, and air pumps on poles. Three or four different entities, all doing ag research.
This morning, about 9:00, we had two police cars pull up and look at our badges, ask what we were doing, how long, when we would be out in the field, on and on. We are close to an air base, and apparently folks thought the geeks had come to take over the world. The police switchboard had lit up like a Christmas tree when we were all out there in our white vans and trucks setting up. At our dumfounded faces, the police simply shook their heads and drove off.
Bizarre. America--land of the afraid.
Mudshark,
It's ALL bullshit. They were in on it, no question. I realized it the day it all happened but was too afraid to think or talk about it for almost 5 yrs.
And now, in 2007, many Americans are still too afraid or unwilling to talk about it ...and so America sinks to protect the lies of a handful of psychotic neocons.
And whatever comfort or security we all think we're gaining by not addressing the problem today is all an illusion because we're just shuttling off the problem to our children's generation.
Just like this crap got passed on to us when Ford pardoned all the crooks when he took office.
The terrorists actors that hijacked the planes were brainwashed subjects used by people who had motives ignite this current situation.
I presume most of Islam knows full well the current situation in no way benefits themselves.
Q: What is the name of the only prominent American family to have direct, provable ties to both the Nazi regime and the bin Ladens?
Karl Bauer @ 5:
sometimes I wonder....
mudshark @ 1:
50 percent responsible. The rest of the responsibility lies with bush, asleep at the wheel, oblivious to impending danger, deaf and blind to the increasing warning signs.
Two religious conservatives, bush and osama, two sides of the same megalomaniacal coin.
Karl....if it wasn't for this govt's foriegn policy pertaining to the middle east and OBL admitting to responsibilityfor 9/11....i might think there was more to this than meets the eye.....but for me to consider that this govt had something to do with 9/11 is over the top......but there is more to this than we've been told...
Straight Shooter @ 9:
agreed
America fell for it all ...
...9/11/01 and everything that came after
...hook line, sinker
Karl Bauer @ 7:
Mary Kay cosmetics???
allushions all smoke and mirriors nothing they told you or showed you on 911 is truth, no binladden no 19 mid east hijackers , no cincidences that cheny controlled norad on 911, no coincidence a third building fell , illushions the magicians did thier job well, nothing before nothing since 911 has been anything but lies!
The one thing most everyone can agree on is the the 2 biggest takers of innocent life on and since 9/11 are Osama Bin Laden and George W. Bush.
Two sides of the same coin.
they only know what thier told!
ben laddens like everything else this governments done ,they need a fall guy a patsy and he was the boogie man!
All America ... Every American knows that the day of 9/11 and 9/12 were the days of total American unity and solidarity. On 9/12 the World stood next to America, ready to anything to help. But then Bush listened to the PNAC driven NeoCons and squashed that great moment of world unity against an act of Terror.
Bush Blew it, he took that great moment, with the help of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Tenent, Powell, Card. Rove, and five or six others, and divided America. He invaded a country that had NOTHING to do with the terrorist and the world knew it. Him and his crew ruined the good name of this country, depleted our military, made thousands of new terrorist and put the country into bankruptcy like he's done to every other Corporation he controlled.
Now with failure looming on every single thing he has done, he is making things even worse and admitting that it will be up to the next president to fix his problem.
I hope America will rise from these ashes and hold trials once he is out of office.
Mudshark,
I'd love to tell you everything I've learned but I think they still have a policy against extensive 9/11 debate on this site.
It's all pretty depressing. When you start looking in to (or "Googling") stuff like "Operation Northwoods" or "WTC7 video", you slowly and sadly realize why we're all in this pickle.
A friend of mine at work just doesn't want to believe our gov't would be capable of something so horrendous. I try to remind him the BTK killer, Dennis Rader, was a city official, and was able to slip by for decades due to the naivete and basic decency of the Wichita populace.
Why couldn't the same sort of thing occur in Washington?
I must have missed some of that hero worship and villian flogging because, for the life of me, i can't recall thinking of the world as a Batman Comic Book since i was 15.
How many coincidences will it take before you realize they are not coincidences at all?
Comment #13 (Mudshark),
If only it were so.
Clue: If you had a pound of gold in your hand, it'd be worth the two you might think you'd earn doing business w/ these scoundrels.
"In short, Americans as a whole did not respond to September 11 clearly and honestly".
With all due respect, Ms. O'Brien, "bullshit".
That congress was stampeded in 2003 in no way diminishes the clarity that vast millions of people understood to be a portending disaster. As one of them, I refuse to shoulder the onus of this great tragedy. Yesterday, in a comment section of C&L, I wrote of having begged (my then) congressman Tom Lantos to oppose the vote that granted Bush the right to unilaterally declare war. But Lantos is a war lover, and, like Hillary Clinton, supported Bush to the hilt until public opinion turned. He is today singing a different tune, of course, because he is a gutless SOB. If he possessed a shred of simple decency, he would long ago resigned his seat. But he is a swine of a man.
"Americans as a whole" refused to consider that any other American could be so corrupt as to Big Lie this nation into unleashing war, that's all. They refused to gauge the depths of depravity such as Tom Lantos personifies.
My point is that many, many millions of Americans did know the score. The corporate media, and a corrupt congress would have it believed otherwise.
One last thought. Until witnessing the crimes of the Bush administration unfold day after day, month after month, I never truly understood why peoples (including the generation of our Revolution) took up arms in fights to the death. I do now.
Lest a deputy dog currently surveilling this sight misconstrue that statement, I condemn violent political revolt. It's inefficient.
That profound anger, though, shared by millions more, is a phenomenon that congressional democrats choose to ignore. Goddamn them all if they betray this nation once again.
On this sixth anniversary of the Al Qaeda attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, 9/11 has come to symbolize two uniquely American political failings. First, in ritualistic observances around the nation, Americans will come together not in common resolve for shared sacrifice, but to perpetuate a culture of grief. Worse still, secure in his Pakistani safe haven, Osama Bin Laden even at large continues to serve the political purposes of the current and prospective occupants of the White House.
For the details, see:
"9/11, the Politics of Fear and the Culture of Grief."
and so if america survives these repig slugs , ages will roll by and year after year people will gather and speak of the tradigdy of 911 and still never really look for the lie!
Karl Bauer @ 22:
just trying to keep it light...as for Op Northwoods that's just an example from the days of J Edgar Hoover...and yes I think this admin is capable of something like that....I haven't seen any evidence for it yet.....just speculation....I'm not saying your wrong...I'm saying that I need more proof...BUT...WTC#7....that is very strange indeed.for me the jury is still out....but nothing would surprise me anymore....
...
That bin Laden video was apparently a forgery -no surprise to those of us paying attention- and they've been adequately picking it to pieces over on Huffpo. It freezes when he references anything current, for like 10 minutes.
And his beards's black.
And his family's tight with Bush.
So... you gonna let your country die, or are you gonna start calling these Texas outlaws on their bull$#!+?
Surely, the Lone Ranger is spinning in his grave...
I’ve said this before. Six years ago, as I watched the towers fall, I very literally said, “It’s not those who did this that I’m afraid of. It’s what we are about to become because of this that I’m afraid.”
I really hate the idea being of age to vote in the next election. When I look at the mess that my generation is going to be left with because of your generation's (well a little over half :)) laziness it is very overwhelming. I don't feel my generation is going to make much more progress with the propaganda that is being shoved down our throats. Today at school in every class 9/11 was brought up and the 2 minutes of hate in Orwellian fashion followed. The ultimately irony of today is my British Literature teacher defended warrantless wiretaps and other crimes of the Bush Administration right before we started reading a Brave New World. She actually said, "9/11 changed everything," and I wanted ask her if she actually read a Brave New World. What happened to our country?
Rave on.....I'm outta here
You know, I didn't react with hysteria on 9-11, maybe because I was safely ensconced in Cali, but all of this "America reacted with" bullshit is getting old. America reacted the way America always reacts, with overwhelming violence, it's what we do best.
All of this goddamned psychoanalyzation, this "let's reflect on 9-11 on this somber day."
Fuck that, reflect on the fact that we are losing our civil liberties. Reflect on the fact that we have destroyed a nation for no good reason. Reflect on the fact that we imprison men and women for no good reason, other than Bush or Abugonzo say so. If you want to reflect on 9-11, reflect on the fact that these neocon motherfuckers hijacked the debate in this nation, with plenty of help from "progressives" and Democrats,and all of the sudden we're just now waking up?
Karl Bauer @ 27:
Tell m karl...what have you done for this country?
Well, I guess somebody had to fill the void left by Susan Sontag.
For a variety or reasons, on Sept 11 and for the four days after, I heard it all on the radio. Listening to Bush's speech at Ground Zero, without the terrifying and heartbreaking images to support him, the macho posturing behind his words was all too apparent. I have never understood all the pundits praising this speech.
I agree with Falludi: we needed a leader and we got an insecure "actor" who was more concerned with his own safety (where was Bush that first day?). Bush fanned our fears and substituted vengeance for justice. He is self-absorbed, petty and mean-spirited, and he has turned the machinery of government into a clone of himself.
God, I hope we can fix this...
Can one even say patriots question 9 11 dot com on this site?
Karl Bauer @ 27:
I'm thinking they took an older video of Binny, cut it up, and re-dubbed it with material that pertains to current events. Not only is his beard black, but it's fluffier and shorter. Also his face doesn't have as many wrinkles or other signs of aging. My guess is the original stock video is ten years old at the very least.
#32 Mudshark,
God, that's a great question. Because I know I haven't done enough. I didn't vote in 2000 because I didn't think it mattered.
I've been trying to make up for that transgression just about everyday since I really realized how bad these S.O.B.'s really are, which would be somewhere around March, 2003
As I mentioned earlier, I had a distinct understanding of their involvement with 9/11 literally on the day it happened, but I shuttled that away for almost 5 years.
A friend of mine died over in Iraq, from a mortar shell, a gal I really adored, and that was certainly something that pushed me in to action a bit more.
So, to answer your question, I guess what I do for my country is raise hell, as best as I can. I guess I'm Christian, so I can't really go out and start killing the neocons who disgust me. But I can use my 1st amendment while I still got it, the same way I do everywhere I go, and tell you what I think.
Because so very few in this country even bother to exercise their 1st Amendment rights, even though countless patriots literally gave their very existence to ensure our generations could live free.
So, what I do for my country, Mudshark, is raise my voice as my sick ol' grandpa Ben Franklin would want me to do in the face of these delusional lunatics led by Mad King George.
I call a spade a spade. I say 2 + 2 = 4, pundits and soothsayers be damned!
I say down is NOT the new up!
I say there ARE craters on the moon!!
Chris @ 29:
Good for you Chris. But don’t despair. I understand your hesitancy to vote next November, for at that time you will be in the same boat as the rest of us – seemingly helpless in the face of chaos and corruption. But to despair is to admit defeat, and a young intellect such as yours must not be defeated – for you are our future too.
1984 and Brave New World were not blueprints, but warnings. Head the warnings. Know the consequences. We’re not done yet.
Straight Shooter @ 9:
mudshark @ 11:
That pretty much sums it up.
let's just say that what I do for a living would have me looking at a lot of faces and I need to study the lines of the face. This latest video of Bin Laden doesn't look like Bin Laden, I don't buy it for a second. How convenient that these video's show up on the eve of 9/11 and how convenient that our media will play the video's for us all to see. If this is true propaganda from the "enemy" then why in God's name would out country give into their demands and play the video. Our mainstream media is feeding us all lies from the beast. We (our nation) needs to wake up from it's Prozac and Zoloft induced comas and realize what is going on before it is too late. What do you think will happen to our civil liberties when the next terrorist attack happens? What do you think will happen when we strike Iran. (I can tell you it will be no Iraq.)
Taarak @ 38:
Chris.....VOTE.....every time......it matters
This country is a different nation than the one that reacted to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. This incident inspired our courage. We showed our patriotism. We dug in and supported the war effort.
That's because we went after the people who had attacked us. bush took the path of least resistance to a country that did not, and could not defend itself or have the capabilities to defend itself.
He used 9/11 to support his dream of becoming a person who finally succeeded at something. The loser had ruined every thing he touched. And guess what, after the republicans stole the last two elections for him, he has ruined the United States also.
That just goes to show what "little" men do. Little men in ideas, little men in courage and little men in vision. bush is all of those little men and he will always be.
At the risk of sounding like a big suckup, I wanted to say how much I appreciate you all, and your ability to see past the crap. It's nice not to feel so completely out of the loop, and an outsider. (And C&L is the best site on these topics...thanks C&L!)
A poster on another subject posted this link: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Dr. Bob Altemeyer, Right-Wing Authoritarianism
You and I are a ghost of what the men who threw the tea into the harbor, but we're sort of the same...People really are sheep-like, and if it weren't for the so-called radicals (what's radical about health care, education, the environment, civil rights, a Just War vs. an unjust war?) we'd have gone 1984 a long time ago.
One thing that MUST be stressed are these key things, pound them home:
1)It only took 19 individual men to bring a supposed Superpower to its knees. NINETEEN PEOPLE vs. a nation of 300,000,000, and we're wallowing. That's not to deny a tragedy took place, but we must not lose sight of our purpose, and future, that's the way the Founders would have wanted it.
2)Muslims radicals believe liberalism will be the downfall of society, AND
Christian radicals believe liberalism will be the downfall of society...two sides of the same coin, INDEED.
3)Bush is not alone in his utter disregard for American liberty...Cheney, Rumsfeld, WOLFOWITZ, these people all have direct links to Leo Strauss (http://evatt.labor.net.au/publications/papers/112.html) and theoreticals on what is needed to make the people give up more power to the Executive. Rumsfeld, Cheney go back wayyyy before the GWB administration...Kristol goes back waaay before the bush admin. This was their shot, and they f*cked up...but it doesn't matter to them, because they're authoritarian liars.
Ok i'm done...cheers.
#42,
Poor Bush got himself caught up in one o' them "paradigm shifts".
You know, Age of Aquarius, water as truth, blah blah blah.
Cosmos dictates 'em.
Not much a chimp can do when the switch gets flipped.
mudshark @ 1:
And you know, it is very encouraging how much progress is being made. If this statement was made 2 or 3 years ago, it would have sparked a flame war from hell where most commenters would have attacked you mercilessly until the debate is detected and deleted by mods. How far we have come.
not far enough , i dont buy it for a minute but mudsharks entittled to his oppinion !
"...flame war from hell where most commenters would have attacked you mercilessly until the debate is detected and deleted by mods. How far we have come."
Indeed, I'm shocked and awed that the 9/11 inside-job-questions-not-to-be-asked above haven't been redacted. Thanks for keeping an open mind C&L. The first "nutjob" question to pop into my head 6 years ago was "where the hell is our air defenses?!" Oh, they're all on training exercises simulating airplanes being hijacked and unavailable for national defense. WTF.
i dont believe anything this government says or has told me! this government told me that 19 hijackers from saudia arabia and four jordanians did 911 , they told me binladden was behind it , they lied about everything so far, what makes anyone believe they told the truth about the culprits of 911! buy a little buy it all !
"Indeed, I’m shocked and awed that the 9/11 inside-job-questions-not-to-be-asked above haven’t been redacted. :
I am as well, but I think everyone has figured out by now that the Dems are not here to save us, even when we voted them back in power to do this job. Why is impeachment off the table? Why are the tough questions not being asked? Why is it two members of the 9/11 commission wrote in a book that they caught the Pentagon lying to them and the commission but yet did nothing to rectify the situation and our mainstream media did nothing about this fact, why did congress do nothing? Why are we as Americans not doing anything, why should we fear asking questions? Why is it 6 years later we do not know the truth about that day, and if we do not know the truth about that day, still 6 years later, then how could we EVER justify invading another country in retaliation for what took place that day? No we are the aggressors, now we are the killers, now we are the invaders, now we are the occupiers. Why, Why, Why? Finally people, start to ask the questions because we all need the answers.
switchgrass @ 47:
I believe that the C&L crew had an open mind about the topic all along but it seemed like they didn't want the comment section overtaken by the endless poo flinging back and forth.
I have just one question for all of you. Amato, the mods, the ones who post here regularly, all of the liberal insane fringe...
Why do you hate America?
RealityCheck - We don't hate America, but we hate what she has become. News flash, she is very sick right now and if something other than "stay the course" isn't done soon we will ALL be saying.....what the heck happened. Living in denial isn't going to fix anything. When you are wrong (And we are all united on the we were wrong part) you say I am sorry and you do something to correct the mistake, sorry but ignoring this one isn't going to make it go away.
I am awfully tired of hearing how americans are afraid. americans are not. they get up and go about their lives because they know what they have to do to live. the only people being talked about are the fearful 18%., not the rest of us americans.
the rest of us americans are too busy, fat, lazy, uninvolved, unconcerned, hungry, put off, engrossed in tv, playing videogames......
the rest of us americans don't have time to look up and see that our country is in shambles. besides, what can the rest of us americans do about it?
RealityCheck @ 51:
"Gash...I love America." -M. romney when asked about one thing wrong with America.
Look towards a playground and you see the world. Taunting, harrassing, bullying; cooperation, laughter, imagination. The kids get 20 minutes out there, most get along with others; some are insecure and feel good threatening others; one of them starts a fight. He gets suspended. Months later that kid gets in another fight. He gets suspended again. And so on...
That kid doesn't change because no one taught him how to be reflective. Maybe his mind is incapable of that. That's too bad, because all of the other kids get along quite well. It really doesn't matter, though. In the end they all have to head back to same class and continue what they're there for.
Realitycheck, I'm not the fringe, I'm just able to think through stench. And I don't see the world as a college football poll.
Peace.
RealityCheck @ 51:
Marge @ 42:
It's not really ALL about Bush. Bush is like a puppet with strings. The puppeteer is Cheney. Every great villain needs a fall guy, a scapegoat if you will. It seems that Cheney has found his. Now, what's in it for Cheney, you might ask? Well, money and more $$$ than you or I will ever see in 9 lifetimes, unless one of us wins the lottery.
There's a good article out there called "The Great Iraq Swindle". It's a must read.
RealityCheck @ 51:
I don't hate America....I actually love it....But...what I do hate is what you and your party have done to it.Don't you try to lecture me or anyone else...after the way you and your party have acted and behaved..and the bullshit you and your party have dragged the country through.....you and your party should be ashamed of yourselves
the nerve of some people.
Karl Bauer @ 5:
I've learned over the years that no matter how cynical my worst case scenario analysis of an event, the reality is usually much worse. On 9/11/01, my thoughts as Bush sat in a classroom dumbfounded were: "Bin Laden told me he was going to attack Denver."
You're definitely not alone.
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