No timetable, no funding
By Steve Benen Monday Sep 17, 2007 7:21amOver the weekend, Barack Obama joined the group of Senate lawmakers who insist that a timetable for withdrawal be included in a spending bill for the war in Iraq. The New York Times noted this quote from Obama: “No timetable, no funding. It is time to bring this to an end.”
Far more of a surprise, however, was Sen. Ken Salazar (R-Colo.), who hasn't exactly been a progressive champion on Iraq policy, stepping up with a similar assessment.
Salazar, a Colorado Democrat, previously has not supported Congress using its ability to stop war payments in order to force President Bush to change direction..."If it could be done then I think we ought to take a look at it," Salazar said. [...]
While in Iraq over the weekend, Salazar said, some service men and women told him that they wanted Congress to cut off funding.
Got that? For all the far-right rhetoric about "supporting the troops," Salazar said he's open to cutting off funding because troops encouraged him to do so.
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about damn time...but will it really happen?
ONCE AGAIN...ANYONE WHO WANTS THIS WAR TO BE CONTINUED IN IRAQ
PUT YOUR A$$ WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS....
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp
exactly... words mean nothing.
btw, I think you might have pulled a FoxNews with Salazar (R)
The post is confusing in that it states he is both republican and democrat.
Steve, did Salazar switch parties? I thought he was a Dem. Glad to see he is on board with ending this travesty.
BAC
R-Colorado or D-Colorado?
is he democrat or repub????
troops are nothing more than political pawns for repukes.
can't tell from his website what party he belongs to, which make me feel like he's on the wrong side all the time
tom @ 4:
He must be a flip flopper
Sen. Ken Salazar (R-Colo.)???
senate.gov has him listed as a Dem. BFD
Who cares what party he's in, the main thing is that, according to what he's saying, he's finally seeing the light and sure as hell it is the headlight of a big damned train. Time to pull our troops off the tracks.
If they could have come to this conclusion long ago they could have saved military lives. They didn't and that's sad as hell. But if they do it now they can still save some lives and that's the good news.
'Sen. Ken Salazar (R-Colo.)'
Someone has been watching too much Fox 'news'
Yeah. I'll believe it when I see it. Odds are they'll all be whining to the cameras in a week or two feebly trying to explain WHY they crumbled like an intercity bridge and gave the shrub co. crime syndicate another blank check.
Salazar(r) or (d)......it depends if you watch Fixed News or not
I don't see the Preznit giving up on his pot of black gold easily..he'll fight this tooth and nail....which might turn out to be a good thing....It'll show him for what he really is...a money grubbing warmonger who doesn't give a shit ......as long as the money keeps on coming in.....
For all the far-right rhetoric about “supporting the troops,” Salazar said he’s open to cutting off funding because troops encouraged him to do so.
It doesn't matter what face-saving excuse he grabs onto as long as he's finally willing to cut the damned funding.
Here's the BIG News today. Investigative Reporter extraordinare Greg Palast's BOMBSHELL report shows that there's NO Al-Qaeda in Iraq! This is must read. You certainly won't see this anywhere on Corporate Media. The occupation would end TODAY if everyone saw this content.
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1309
You can watch the video here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C223AE63-CE85-4887-9275-D2278C2A8...
Interview with cameraman who risked life to get story:
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/62827/?page=1
What was eye opening to me is what the troops said, "Cut off the funding". It obviously had an effect on Salazar, whoever he is.
I don't know, but does Obama support keeping the bases in Iraq? or removing them? time tables are fine, for withdrawal...but is he talking about all troops and no bases?
What I can't believe is that there were "Pro-War" marchers in DC countering the protests there this weekend and this week!
Pro-War marchers! Are you crazy? After all the lies and the misappropriations and theft? Pro War? they must have been more info-mercial actors...
Watch this and just see if it doesn’t get you out of your chair to the phone.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/26912
President’s office U Florida:
1-352-392-1311 or president@ufl.edu
willyloman @ 22:
they are truly ridiculous human beings.
willyloman @ 22:
Anyone who's "pro war" should be handed a pistol and air dropped into bagdad. Best of luck. We think there might be some bad guys in that direction. We'll let you know if your armor ever shows up. Best of luck.
And don't worry... I'm sure that some day someone will etch your name on a stone monument somewhere. That'll make up for all of it.
barack obama: the chickenshit DLCer who first announced that the Dems would give the preznit whatever he wanted on the war spending bill because the troops were being held hostage; the first DLCer to announce that he would nuke Iran; the first DLCer with the corporatized universal health plan and would still leave the same 40million people without health care; the first DLCer to endorse LIEberman over Lamont and the first DLCer to take in two of LIEberman's advisors.
Oh yeah! I'll believe him after I get fitted for a tinfoil hat.
Sheesh, some editors children. No Obama redefinitions either, hmm..
willyloman @ 21:
he's waffling with non-statements, just like hillary. they are the same: no positions, just DLC triangulation. nothing concrete will come of this, even after Edwards called them out on their cowardice.
The troops don't support the troops.
I'm tired of the Bidenite and Randi Rhodesian excuses. Don't let the bill hit the floor
willyloman @ 22:
Yeah I saw that. One of the pro-war ralliers had a sign that said, "TRAITORS GO TO HELL". But what really caught my eye is the way C-Spam framed it. For the first rally, the screen caption said, "anti-war rally"... and then for the second one, it said, "rally in support of the troops." (as opposed to the other rally, apparently.) Tell me that one doesn't reak to high heaven. anti-war rally.... rally in support of the troops.... NOT.. "rally in support of the troops" and "pro-war rally".
Ken Salazar R&D. Research and Development, Retarded and Depraved? I like the flip-flopper comment despite hating that term..
Salazar, Ken- (D - CO) Class III
702 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-5852
Web Form: http://salazar.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm
DrBadger @ 3:
It's a typo. Salazar was elected as the candidate from the Democratic Party in my district, although he hasn't acted much like a Democrat since being elected. I imagine that he will offer some lukewarm comments about taking steps to end the war, followed by voting against any Democratic proposal to tie withdrawal to funding. The man is nothing if not milquetoast.
I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with that position.
Make Bush cut the funding himself.
Send Bush a bill that fully funds his extended surge, AND contains a rich-guy tax increase to pay for the war.
Bush will veto it, and voila, he's shut down his own war.
Not to be picky or anything but could you change that R to a D. C&L doesn't want to look like FOX or CNN does it?
willyloman @ 21:
It's unclear where Obama is on the "enduring bases" (read permanent). What is clear is that a replacement for the endless tactics requires a new strategic vision in the middle east. This is going to require a new national energy policy that is out in the open, not made by cheney and his pals behind closed doors.
Apparently, Salazar didn't get the memo that said listening to the troops doesn't mean your suppose to actually talk to anyone who is lower in rank then a flag officer about the war. Next thing you know he'll be listening to his constituents, like this is some sort of democracy or something.
Why do the pundits keep saying the dems don't have the votes? All you need is a majority to stop funding.
I heard some of the troops said they wanted to stay!
"Support the troops" is branding terminology, like "War on Terror" the product of focus group free-market sales meetings. These are the people who meet and decide the terminology to be used "sell" the public war "products".
"Support the Troops" has the following embedded meanings:
Support the GOP, Vote Republican, Support Bush, Be Pro-War, Vote for unlimited funding with no strings attached to continue war, support the modern Crusades, Support Conservative Christianity, Hate Liberals, Hate the Democrats, Be willing to give up free-speech and 4th Amendment rights, Support Torture, Support Union-Busting, Support No-Bid War Contracting, hate conscientious objectors.
"War on Terror" has the following embedded meanings:
Let the government do whatever it wants to citizens, support pre-emptive wars against foreign countries, submit to random, unreasonable search and seizures by police, allow unlimited access of your personal history by unknown persons in secret without authorization, support secret government, support wars for oil, agree to live in fear, agree to never protest against your government no matter how unlawful the government's policies and behavior are, hate the United Nations, hate the World Court, hate liberal Europeans, hate Muslims, regard all Middle Eastern people (except Israelis) as terrorists, support the modern Crusades, support Christian Reconstructionism, Vote Republican, fund the GOP.
Maybe we should devote a thread to dissecting the Doublespeak of the Administration and publish it online for reference by other groups. A kind of wiki of Government Doublespeak.
Hey, Sitemonitor. You might want to make the correction to his affiliation. Don't want Fux picking up on the fact you guys can't get your R and D straight. Hmm... Come to think of it, I remember a few stories here like that.
Also, I concur that Obama is not going to help much. And DrBadger's assessment of Salazar sounds realistic. Unfortunately the term "milquetoast" fits 99.9% of our elected officials these days...that's why Congress gets lower approval ratings than the President himself.
somebody should put that dirtly liberal, hippie, commie, faggot loving sob in jail
what's that?
he's republican you say?
Well he's a fine American then! Support our troops!
Why doesn't anyone just call it the way it is: Bush has been holding our soldiers hostage since 2003, everytime he doesn't get what he wants he threatens their lives.
Peace @ 19:
Truly disturbing.
Hey, Ken Salazar is a Democrat. Just wanted to let you know.
Fuck all this shit.. Just end it... End it now... The troops know what the deal is... Like they didn't all along... Doesn't take too many rides in a hummer in Fallujah or combat patrols down some badgdad ally to know what the real deal is.....
The Iraqies for the most part are fed up with us...that is, the civilians who weren't initially inclined to pick up a gun and start shooting at us... We are fed up with them and their incessant tribal killing of one another along with our troops... And we need to get the hell out of the middle of their civil war... Yea yea yea we're responsible, we dropped it we own it yadda yadda... No, not quite people though that is the popular excuse fronted to keep us chained there in guilt..
Yes, we totally fucked up by invading (Blame belongs with Bush and the neocons excusively on that) and compounded the problem by ignoring the deteriorating conditions culturally after the fact by myopically focussing on those resources our oil industry was concerned with while ignoring the rest of the cratoring infrastructure... Then we accepted that Bush put Paul Bremer in charge or reconstruction which was anything but...Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water... Yea, that's Bremers handiwork all over the place...
But all that aside, here's the thing... It is NOT and never was, our sovereign territory! This nation, whatever is left of it belongs to Iraqies. We can stay there and bleed another generation or two but in the end, it is going to have to be Iraqies themselves who decide living is better then dying over ideology... Ultimately, that ain't got shit to do with us and we need to get the hell out of the way so they can figure it out..
Noone wants a busybody nanny telling them how to live their lives and use their resources... Not some individual from the left hearing braindead pablum from some christian fundamentalist... And not some sovereign nation half way around the world away from Washington D.C.
Yea, we fucked up, but our continuing presence isn't helping anymore.. It is a further hindrance to that nations ability to deal and heal its' shattered national soul...And it has become a draw for terrorists wanting to fight and kill Americans, practically a giant boot camp for people who want to take up violence for a career regardless of ideology... It's all just a sick loop of violence begetting more violence... Like I said, we need to end this crap and get the hell out... 2 years, 18 months, whatever, just stop dicking around with this shit and get started......JD
Peace @ 19:
If there was any way someone in the republican ranks really had a conscience and would give a tell all interview about all the shadowy secretive things Bush's admin has been getting away with maybe just maybe it would wake this country up and people would storm the white house and congress. This bombshell is probably nothing compared to the real evil bush and cheney have been enabled to carry out by both parties in congress.
Far more of a surprise, however, was Sen. Ken Salazar (R-Colo.), who hasn’t exactly been a progressive champion on Iraq policy, stepping up with a similar assessment.
Salazar, a Colorado Democrat, previously has not supported Congress using its ability to stop war payments in order to force President Bush to change direction…”If it could be done then I think we ought to take a look at it,” Salazar said. […]
So which is it?
We'll see if the chicken shit Salazar has the balls to stand up for his convictions in all due time. I'll put my money on him folding.
"..Salazar said he’s open to cutting off funding because troops encouraged him to do so".
"I couldn't believe it", Salazar told the Denver Post. "I mean, they really meant it, couldn't have been more serious. If I'd only known. To tell the truth, I feel kind of silly. It should have dawned on me years ago they might want to come to home for good, but frankly, the thought never crossed my mind. It's really sort of funny when you think about it".
I just read the above post... Longtooth @51...
Unfuckingbelievable... Senator Salazars words sounds like a parody routine from SNL.... " I feel kind of silly, it should have dawned on me years ago that they might want to come home for good...But frankly, the thought never crossed my mind... It's really sort of funny when you think about it".....
'REALLY. SORT. OF. FUNNY' !!!???? No shit senator? Funny you say.. like ha ha funny??? That's some sense of humor there ya rube. The thought never crossed your mind eh. And you're suppose to be a smart guy huh... Intelligent enough to be a senator eh..... So yas wanted to go into politics, serve your country and do something positive did ja???? Funny how its all working out on that mister Senator Salazar....
Ahh, what the hell, I really ought to give you a break there mister high falutin statesman... You obviously like to stay right on top of current events... It's OK buddy, I mean, who the hell wouldn't want to stay in a meatgrinder with no way out, noone in gub-mint lookin out for ya, and people of all sizes shapes and ideology including innocent children no older than the little five year old in Florida and younger than that getting blown to pieces left and right, friends going home in body bags, or airlifted to Germany sans an arm or two, maybe a leg or two as well..
And a general population where the good guys and the bad guys all more or less look the same...
Hell, who in their right mind wouldn't want to stay in that situation?? I'll tell ya whats really funny, and not ha ha funny. The fact that this sonofabitch and all the others like him are still in office at all....JD
Don't you think that's funny Madam Speaker Pelosi???? Wonder how that works........JD
Brian @ 46:
you don't read before posting, do you? (hint: #33)
BascOmBe;
OK, I checked the post @ 33 and I went to the senators web site to leave him a 'friendly' message regarding how I felt regarding his comments.... Don't think it got thru though, got one of those sites down or busy blah blah messages...with a redirect to some propaganda P.R site or so it appeared. Guess there were too many straws in the tube or something. You think the guys ears are burning yet? ..........JD
willyloman @ 22:
They were probably paid to be there by the extreme right.
Salazar may be coming around to cutting funding. He recently sent out an email newsletter and invited his constituents to comment on an Iraq bill he was pushing. He talked about trying to find a bi-partisan solution. I'm willing to bet he got royally spanked for being so wishy-washy and blind to the fact that Repukes aren't willing to play nice.
Jack Damage: I was just going for a laugh when I made up that bit about Salazar and the Post. The fact you bit, though, is proof positive just how ludicrous the political "dialogue" in this country has become. Had Salazar actually said it, I would hardly have batted an eye.
Remember this golden oldie from a few months ago? And this clown just might win the GOP nomination:
“I really don’t recall thinking about political positions when I was knocking at the door in France” as a missionary, Romney said. “I was supportive of my country. I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.”
Longtooth@59;
Good one, got me... and your're right, in the current environment, crazy statements like that.... Well, it 'could happen' and a lot of people wouldn't bat an eye at what that kind of statement would actually mean.... And yes, your graveyard like humor and my biting on the joke as serious, pretty well illustrates the current level of discourse between the various political factions here now.... Basically, not so hot these days....
Personally I feel we have as a culture, fallen so far down the rabbit hole of internal divisiveness, (thanks to the last seven years and those in charge in my opinion), I don't know how we are going to pull back and get to some semblance of cultural and political normalcy.... Not even sure such a condition exists anymore.... I know who I blame for all this... And it ain't you and some joke I bit on...... As regards my true feelings on this 'war'... My comments at 49 pretty much sums up my feelings on it all..
regards; JD
It doesn't matter if there are timelines or not. What matters is getting troops home, however they have to do it. This congress needs to get something, anything done. They can not show leadership without at least some amount of reaching out to the minority party. What would be the correct name for a highly ideological group of Democrats who refuse to budge? Neo-Crat doesn't come across too well (perhaps as it should be). Support the Webb Amendment!
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