Sy Hersh on Bush and Iran: Shifting targets: New Propaganda push to attack their Revolutionary Guard
By John Amato Saturday Sep 29, 2007 11:31amUPDATED: Sy Hersh joined CNN's Late Edition and discussed his new article out in the NewYorker: "Shifting Targets," which says that the WH has a new talking point which it will sell attacking Iran and as usual, our media will lap it up. The CIA has created an Iran Study Group with dozens of new members with the goal of launching a strike against Iran, including ground forces. Bush feels that using the nuclear threat as the reason to bomb Iran has failed miserably, so they switched talking points and are going to say they are defending themselves against Iranian meddling in Iraq. We told you so....
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Hersh: You can also sell counter-terror, it's much more logical. You can say to the American people, we're only hitting these people that are trying to kill our boys and the coalition forces and so that seems to be more sensible, The White House think s they can actually pitch this, this would actually work...
Now you understand why the Lieberman/Kyl amendment was just put through. If BushCo. wants to heighten the sense of nationalism in Iran, just attack them and keep on this course of immorality. It's another disaster coming from Bush/Cheney and the Neocons in a long line of them and I know Bush and Cheney thank our media for doing what they always do...Nothing, except Sy.
Thanks Sy....Here's my Iran Action Alert post:
Call the Capitol switchboard at 202-225-3121. We need to let our representatives know that Bush cannot attack Iran.
Propaganda for Dummies continues with: Matt Yglesias:
"Last week, Daniel Drezner and I were wondering what ever happened to the PR rollout for bombing Iran. Don Van Natta reports for The New York Times on Freedom’s Watch----its intention to far outspend its rivals and its ambition to pursue a wide-ranging agenda. Its next target: Iran policy." Sounds fun.
And the Sock-puppets attack....(h/t SN) The New Yorker:
This summer, the White House, pushed by the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney, requested that the Joint Chiefs of Staff redraw long-standing plans for a possible attack on Iran, according to former officials and government consultants.
The focus of the plans had been a broad bombing attack, with targets including Iran’s known and suspected nuclear facilities and other military and infrastructure sites. Now the emphasis is on “surgical” strikes on Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere, which, the Administration claims, have been the source of attacks on Americans in Iraq. What had been presented primarily as a counter-proliferation mission has been reconceived as counterterrorism...
The shift in targeting reflects three developments. First, the President and his senior advisers have concluded that their campaign to convince the American public that Iran poses an imminent nuclear threat has failed (unlike a similar campaign before the Iraq war), and that as a result there is not enough popular support for a major bombing campaign. The second development is that the White House has come to terms, in private, with the general consensus of the American intelligence community that Iran is at least five years away from obtaining a bomb. And, finally, there has been a growing recognition in Washington and throughout the Middle East that Iran is emerging as the geopolitical winner of the war in Iraq...read on
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The problem is that the media will push whatever the WH wants, yet they won't show a Anti War March in DC- OUR capital of 100,000, so what do we do ?
I long for the day that the media gives us real news instead of the propaganda this administration feeds them.
IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH
This article is a travesty to our great nation. It will be immoral upon us not to protect our soldiers who are in the Iraq theater. We must be do our best to defend ourselves and attack those who attack us, whoever, wherever they are. The Revolutionary Guards have done great damage to our troops in Iraq theater. We must defend ourselves against them.
Given the higher # of casualties in Iraq that is directly/indirectly caused by the Revolutionary Guards, we have the higher authority and moral ground to pre-emptively strike against this pestilence, called the Revolutionary Guards. They are a terrorists organization.
Another source for pushing this unprovoked attack on Iran which will result in the killing of many innocent Iranians is Faux News and its dumb ass talking heads such as those on 'The Beltway Boys.' On two occasions, at different times yesterday, Saturday, I scrolled past Faux News and they were pushing hard for this invasion. Kondracke was ecstatic about the possibility of this nation widening the war. His beady eyes were gleaming at this possibility. What a bunch of sickos. Of course Kondracke and rest are not going to be putting their collective asses anywhere near this conflict, nor will their kids. So guess who they want to fight and die for this absurity? I would strongly recommend to the joint Chiefs that they invoke the principle in the Uniformed Code of Military Justice which says that 'no one can command you to do an immoral act.' They should all grow a set and tell Bush/Cheney to go screw.
If President Cheney and VP Bush had been in office during Vietnam, no doubt we'd have attacked China for the very same reasons.
Arlington Group @ 4:
Are you insane?
dd
Some day, the word "neocon" will have connotations as bad as the word "nazi."
We're getting steadily closer to that day.
My 2 cents.
Exposed: Bush's claim about Iranian Quds forces proved to be false
excerpt (read the whole article at the above link):
I'm still reeling from the declaration of our esteemed Democratic Candidates that they will try really hard to get out of Iraq by 2013. We are already viewed as an out of control rogue nation by most of the civilized world and now we will remove all doubt by an invasion of Iran on more trumped up evidence. Will they bring Colin back for a encore at the United Nations with all new props? This government no longer works for us and should no longer be trusted to do anything in our name.
Nice. But CNN is still overstacking the analyses with conservatives. Hopefully CNN will be the first to realize viewers don't want re-vomited puke from the Cheney propaganda machine.
Occassionally something decent comes from CNN. So far it's overpowered by the stoopid bleating.
We need to start convicting corporations for complicity in war crimes. Corporations are people, and so they can be held responsible for complicity in war crimes. They should be. Especially media networks and particularly international banks that launder money for weapons dealers.
The best way to deal with terrorists is to cut off their funding and disable their propaganda machine. Terrorism is a crime problem and terrorists need to be dealt with as criminals. International terrorist leaders such as george Bush and dick Cheney should be dealt with accordingly.
Another thing - where's Pelosi, Hillary and Obama - why aren't they countering the White House and capitalizing on all the donations and votes it would win for their campaigns?
Pelosi and Hillary in particular must be aware that if the White House was tied down with impeachment proceedings, they could not sell another war. Don't tell me that don't know that. They know it.
Hillary and Pelosi seem to have made a bargain with the White House: cover their backs against impeachment, do not take an antiwar stance, and the White House will leave them alone for the time being.
Hillary and Pelosi must be bargaining with the neocons. That's really awful.
Arlington Group @ 4:
yes lets get them quickly , before they remember america furnished sadam with thoes poison gasses we gave him to kill them with! oh my
Way to stand up Arlington. These guys weren't paying attention when,the week of taking Baghdad, Iranians were i.d.'d as contributing to the killing of Coalition Forces AND Iraqis. And they have done so ever since - along with gathered physical evidence over that time.
And these guys will use the same game all over again. Whenever a mention is made of a different element to the basic explanation for proposed action on Iran, they will say you have changed the reason once again. This is done boisterously and avoids the actual point that much longer.
[Some response: ("Are you insane?")Ha! That is sad and unfortunate.]
Yes, we all knew why the Lieberputz/Kyl Amendment was pushed through. But our clueless Dems, like Hillary, fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Thanks Hillary and friends! /sarcasm
again, guys, see this article. It states that there is NO proof that Iran has trained anyone to attack American troops. This is a false charge. Remember Brzezinksi's testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee? Earlier this year, the former Carter NSA said
Why has USA meddled in Iran for all these years? Seriously. Can someone answer?
VietVet8666 @ 9:
And "Democratic Congressman" will have an explanatory link in the dictionary under "invertebrate".
VietVet8666 @ 9:
I think we have already arrived.
level @ 14:
Enough of the right wing talking points. Show me the evidence.
Arlington Group @ 4:
Why are U.S. soldiers in Iraq in the first place? What would you do if the U.S. was occupied by soldiers from a foreign government and these soldiers were walking down U.S. streets heavily armed with AK-47's and protected by tanks and helicoptors?
Guido, OBGYN @ 17:
CIA In Iran
and
Read this essay.
What is the most effective route to stopping this from happening...Any ideas?
Can we go ahead and end the World already? This anticipation is killing me.
AntiFed1791 @ 24:
Thanks for the chuckle, Fed.
dirty d @ 23:
As the original post says, "Call the Capitol switchboard at 202-225-3121. We need to let our representatives know that Bush cannot attack Iran." Call early and call often.
Fuck them all! Let the White House and the MSM push the war with Iran. They will do exactly what they want anyway because they think they are beyond recrimination. I wonder what's going to happen, though, when Iran sends thousands of soldiers across the Iraqi border to destroy the US armed forces by joining with their Shia compatriots? I wonder how Bush/Cheney and the MSM are going to claim "Mission Accomplished" while the oil fields are being bombed into rubble? The American people were fooled once by the lead up to the Iraqi war. They won't be fooled this time although I doubt very much whether we have any say in this whatsoever - until, of course, after the disastrous results and the people become so incensed at the outcome of a war they opposed (and with support for an Iran war currently at about 8%, there are going to be a lot of us) in the first place. So bombs away, you stupid fucking idiots. Get some more soldiers killed at the altar of neoconservatism. I just want to see what excuses Wolf Blitzer and Katie Couric and Dan Abrams and Thomas Friedman and Chris Matthews and all the other cheerleaders for the Iraq disaster are going to use this time. If the American people are stupid enough to fall for this idiocy once more, then we deserve all that we get. Just don't expect me to mop up the fucking blood.
Otay @ 15:
Otay, I got an e-mail saying that that amendment had been defanged. The most controversial parts had been cut out. How would one go about checking on this?
We are only in the Middle East for oil. We let North Korea test nukes and didn't do jack. When are Americans gonna wake up and realize wth is going on. Republicans are such pussies they crap their pants anytime the news mentions "the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud". Iran hasn't attacked anyone in recent history. All I hear is a lot of BS lies from our government. Prove Iran killed American soldiers or STFU.
You know what, screw it. If the administration is dumb enough to actually think bombing Iran is a good idea, let them do it. If all the leading presidential candidates think it's a good idea to keep a permanent presence in Iraq, well good luck in doing so after you pissed off Iran.
If any politician doesn't understand why bombing Iran is a bad idea with or without the public saying so, then they really don't deserve to be in office. So go ahead, bomb and attack Cambodia, erh Iran. See how long you can hold your position in the Middle East when you've pissed off all of the neighboring countries along with with the civil war/insurgency occurring in the countries you occupied. Hell, all Iran has to do is stop delivering oil to the US to make us regret our action.
I'm personally in favor of a quick burn out of our forces through stupidity like bombing/invading Iran instead of slowly bleeding our troops until 2013.
It is a distraction from the needless genocide and slaughter of innocent Iraqis.
The cleansing is complete in Baghdad ,the Shiites rule there but allied with Iran.
Hillary voted for the Lieberman amendment to look strong in the general.
If she did not, the gop candidate will want war with Iran making her look weak.
Have we not learned from looking weak on security in the last two elections?
Get tough, if you want to win.
@getalife Shame on you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dK19sYq9fI
Also imagine if all the Neocons were in jail? :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukanmXma9Z4
Ok i"ll go away now! ;)
VietVet8666 @ 9:
I'll ad another $0.02. (about all I can afford now - thanks bush )
Neocon=nazi
Dumbass said: "This article is a travesty to our great nation. It will be immoral upon us not to protect our soldiers who are in the Iraq theater."
Yes, let's withdraw them immediately--that is the best protection, rather than having them play Russian Roulette with multiple deployments until their luck runs out. Immoral upon us? Learn English from Dubya?
Dumbass continues: "We must be do our best to defend ourselves and attack those who attack us, whoever, wherever they are."
Especially if we start a war of aggression on THEIR border, with many threats against them both verbal, kidnaping of their citizens and build up of naval forces off their coast. Sure, we are completely innocent, as we have always been in every war of aggression we start. Nam, Iraq, Iran next. We're the good guys, they're the Bad Guys. A three year old can figure all this out. By the way, the real terrorists are on Mars. I recently saw a movie about them. Are we going to Mars? Yes we are--Dubya says so.
Dumbass knows: "The Revolutionary Guards have done great damage to our troops in Iraq theater. We must defend ourselves against them."
Who told you that, General BetrayUs?
Dumbass elaborates: "Given the higher # of casualties in Iraq that is directly/indirectly caused by the Revolutionary Guards, we have the higher authority and moral ground to pre-emptively strike against this pestilence, called the Revolutionary Guards. They are a terrorists organization."
Of course we have the higher authority--we're AmeriKans, we rule the world, we can kill anyone we want to be cause we have the guns. We're exceptional, the smartest, most moral, most obese, on and on. Dumbass is RIGHT of course--like Cheney.
What would we be without the Dumbasses that live with us, clog the roads, raise our medical costs, and our taxes. We're so superior, right DUMBASS?
This is so typical -- shifting excuses to do what they want to do -- Cut taxes? Because there's a surplus -- oh wait, because the economy is slowing down.
Invade Iraq? Because of weapons of mass destruction -- no, no, wait -- it's because Saddam is evil -- wait, hold on, it's because we're spreading democracy in the Middle East!
Bomb Iran -- is it to stop nuclear proliferation? To take out the Revolutionary Guard to prevent attacks in Iraq? Oh who cares -- we just want to bomb Iran.
getalife @ 31:
What, the 2006 election where democrats won against every non-incumbency? The Kerry campaign where he was bashed not for being against a war, but not taking a solid position on anything? I mean, if Kerry had taken a solid stand against the war from the start he would have energized his base who were less then enthusiastic about voting for Kerry. The same election where Kerry didn't defend himself from any of the partisan attacks against him or do anything to redefine the argument in his favor?
The lesson as well as most people should have taken from that election is to take a solid stand one way or another, stand up for yourself and don't let Republicans completely frame the debate in their favor. If Hillary makes it through the primary and loses in the general election, it will be for similar reasons that Kerry lost, not because she didn't appear tough enough on Iran. If Democrats really had to worry about looking too weak on terrorism, then people wouldn't support Democrats more then Republicans when dealing with terrorism as most polls show. Democrats need to stop fighting previous election campaigns and look at the current reality of situation before them.
Hillary voted FOR the Lieberman/Kyl amendment.
Guess she's never seen an impending war she doesn't love.
Guido, OBGYN @ 17:
Oil.
I have no doubt that at some level Iran is getting weaponry into Iraq to help the insurgecy against our soldiers, but who started it? The fact is, the US has been waging war by proxy on Iran for years now,
Bushco has been using a terrorist organization (accd to our State Dept as it has killed US soldiers and civilians in the past) that we have been harboring inside Iraq to commit terrorist attacks inside Iran for years now.
Here's just a few of the attacks inside Iran committed by the MEK:
Eight killed in Iran bomb attacks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4642170.stm
Bomb blasts hit Iran oil cities
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4754446.stm
Explosion kills 18 elite Rev. Guards of Iran
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/14/ap/world/mainD8N9D3600.shtml
All are attacks on Iran by a terrorist group working for the US from the cover of Iraq.
Here's a couple more attacks against Iran by proxy:
Police, Insurgents Clash After Iran Bomb
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/17/ap/world/mainD8NB523G0.shtml
2nd blast in 3 days hits Iranian city
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/16/iran.bombing/index.html
And so on.
What would the US do if Iran had a terrorist group doing all of these attacks against us?
It is the same Rove stategy they used to win the last two elections except this time it is Iran.
Hillary is the only candidate who knows this stategy and her vote will make it a losing stategy.
Three strikes and you are out.
This quote is troubling:
Note closely what the US administration has said Iran as a pretext for war: That it is "concerned" bout it's action in Iraq. However, recall WWII and Japan: Japan used the same excuse against the US: That the US was "interfering" with the Japanese actions. After WWII, because the Japanese had illegally started hostilities -- just like the US when it invaded Iraq -- the Japanese were found to have illegally started warfare; and the US lawfully opposed illegal Japanese action. Today's Iranian actions -- regardless what they are -- are lawful because they are defending Iran against the illegal US-led instability.
Read page 109 of the book, "Letters from Nuremberg" -- the story of Senator Dodd's Father, Tom, who was a prosecutor. I urge you to read this page in light of the revelations on Iran. On page 109, you will read the letter from Nuremberg which discusses the German Kietel's defense for their invasion of Czechoslovakia -- "because they were afraid of a Czech invasion." The same excuses is being said today of Iran. When a nation like the US changes its "argument for war" it means the original reason is no longer valid: There remains no imminent threat when a nation "has time" to "discuss" the reasons.
need more proof?
Back in Dec when Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann wrote an op-ed for the NYT the Whitehouse forced them to redact all mentions of the US's using the MEK terrorist group against Iran from it, so they published an accompanying piece "What We Wanted to Tell You About Iran" where they provided links to previously reported sources for all of the redacted info.
Rawstory put their clues all together here: The redacted Iran op-ed revealed
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/The_redacted_Iran_oped_revealed_1222.html
Bushco thinks it's just fine to commit terrorist attacks by proxy against Iran but if they go so far as to supply any weaponry by proxy to attack back they are the terror org. They've been trying to provoke another war with Iran for years.
Iran's Revolutionary Guard isn't a terrorist group and Iran isn't our enemy. Our White House is
Yess! We are going to attack! The media is rooting for it. You won't see the media explaining what the catastrophic consequences will be. They couldn't care less. It's more business for them. You soon will see in big titles in another CNN series as:"THE IRAN WAR", the way they do it; Epic, glamorized, grandieus! And the Democrats will give Him wha He wants, because they, themselves, are already computing the different ways one can get rich in this fucking war!
Iran had helped the US during the invasion of Afghanistan, and then offered to negotiate peace with the US and trade alqaeda members for MEK members and open up its nuclear program, but Cheney and Rumsfeld had other plans for the MEK..
Condi says she can't remember ever recieving the offer:
Flynt Leverett: Condi's Memory Lapse on Iran "Really Quite Curious"
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002512.php
Here is that actual offer from Iran:
This is a disaster on grander proportions than we've seen in Iraq. Does America have a functioning governance system; and where is the Congressional "oversight" of this reckless exeuctive power:
Where is the US going to get ground forces to engage Iranian ground forces: A draft, move them out of Iraq-Afghanistan? This is absurd, and no more credible than Hitler's non-sensical plans to take over the world. How does the US propose to carry this "Plan" to it's logical conclusion?
Time for Members of Congress' staff to call on the carpet the DoD-contractors who are providing these non-sense studies to DoD and the Joint Staff: What are they thinking; and given their reckless "inputs" on Iraq, why should we believe them on Iran?
I say: Stop trying to reason with the US government, and seriously open a public discussion to replace this reckless US government system with something that will respect Geneva and the US Constitution. This US government is out of control. Very dangerous. Reach out to the leadership in Academia and civil rights areas to prosecute these Members of Congress for their failure to enforce Geneva. Time to go after the DoD General Counsel and the law firms associated with the entities proposing these illegal invasion plans. Jail time is needed.
Let's face it. The Dems aren't spineless; they're political. They know as well as the Repubs that war is good for the economy, altho they would never say that. Hell, just think of the billions they're pumping into the economy by paying Blackwater and folks like them. Instead they tell us what they think we want to hear (e.g., "No new funding without an exit strategy") and then they go and do what they want (more funding, slipped in while we weren't watching).
And besides, if they force an end to this war too soon, they won't have any good issues for the 2008 election, or the 2010 election, or the 2012 election. They also know what Orwell knew, that a perpetual war—like the so-called War on Terror—gives the government (BOTH parties) whole bunches of power over the people. It's a way they can control us.
Time for a little grassroots revolution. Vote the whole mess of them out, not only President Cheney and VP Bush but Pelosi, Reid, all of them.
Folks, do you really think they will put Israel in this position to be attacked?
Could it be a disatrction from Iraq and a Rove political stategy they used to win twice?
Do you think they want to destroy our economy with higher priced oil when they are corporate whores?
Do you think they want to go against Russia and China?
I call bullshit.
No need to wait until 2008; We still have a year for legal and fundion options to be implemented. Time for prosecutions, and DNC has the power to shut off funding for this illegal invasion planning. It refuses: DNC Chairs in both the House and Senate could agree -- before any bill was introduced to either chamber -- to common language, and bypass a conference Committee; DNC could zero-out funds, and force the GOP to vote to add money back; DNC could move to impeach. Once this invasion starts, all US personnel associated with this illegal planning are under the laws of war legitimate military targets.
This government is using the prospect of war as the smokescreen to accountability for war crimes in Iraq and Iran. More war crimes does not legalize the unlawful Geneva violations. America remains a looming threat to international law and order. The US government has effectively said it is no longer civilized, nor respectable under any law. This US government -- if it dares to implement this illegal invasion -- would send a clear signal: "We are not going to be bound by any law." This US government has, in effect, said, "We are no longer bound by written law -- and are legitimate." Hitler said the same. Roman Empire collapsed under the same non-sense.
A free citizenry cannot be expected to remain loyal to a system of governance that puts its own existence above law and man. Our loyalty is to law and the Constitution, not to this government. Time for the public to find a new system of governance: One that will ensure legal counsel put their loyalty to the US constitution and Geneva before that to the GOP illegal invasion plans. Time to go after the American legal profession and the General counsel's for the corporations that would put this illegal plan into effect: Security firms, DoD contractors, and the state-level entities that would know that this plan and it's implementation are war crimes.
Options@51
That sounds and make sense. You might be right!
getalife @ 50:
Since when did the Cheney/Bush administration do the smart thing?
I take their absurdity seriously: It is reckless, just like Hitler. There is no difference: There are desperate to avoid war crimes trials. Good qauestions [minor changes to spelling]:
getalife @ 50:
They may view this as the "needed" move to bring about Armageddon. They may view this as the "final" battlefield. Never mind the fact that state and religion are supposed to be separate.
getalife @ 50:
getalife @ 50:
I don't think they care: They're already destroying the economy.
getalife @ 50:
I don't think they've adequately factored into the issue Russian, Chinese, and Indian responses. There may be people who will go along with illegal invasions of Iran because they don't like Iran; but there are other countries in Africa, S. America, and Asia that are not on the same page already with the US on Iraq; throwing Iran into the mix doesn't do much for the US.
I think Iran made their case for peace and it is all political bullshit.
Recently, Iran and China went into 7 billion dollars oil deal. I don't think China will like to see Iran being invaded and causing an interruption to that deal.
the Pravda never stops
Here is the lastest from the propaganda wing of the Whitehouse (FNN).
The following "documentary" is running on Fox News at 3:00 PM EST today.
Title: Iran: The Ticking Bomb
Summary: An investigation of Iran's activities in Iraq, including its alleged role in attacking U.S. troops. Also: details of America's plan to pressure Iran; and how military strikes may prevent Iran from getting a nuclear bomb.
Boom @ 58:
Fox's Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran Blueprint
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnz0A0cc5gU
just sick :(
A brief past:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8536707153900925247&q=bill+moye...
The full version:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3505348655137118430&q=bill+moyer...
The future:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4689061169761152025&q=pentagons+...
Iran isn't Iraq. They will not just roll over and play dead.
Iran is prepared to retaliate, experts warn
February 12, 2006
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/02/12/iran_is_...
As if our 170,000 soldiers right next door in Iraq's lives weren't already in enough danger.
Strawberry @ 28:
Semi-defanged would be a better word. The amendment still declares a military force, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, as terrorists. Which would not be so bad except that we have a "war on terrorism" going on. So the Shrub could say he was given permission to attack Iran through the Congress' acquiescence, or if necessary get another amendment passed taking one further step.
In any event, we are now almost certainly assured that we will attack Iran, and that the Shrub and MSM can cry that they had congressional support. If the Dems played hardball, and did not go along with ANY Repub legislative strategy, things may have been different.
Strawberry @ 28:
Go to TPM and look around some. There's a story about it there.
I went to the Washington DC anti-war march/protest, here are some videos I took on my digital camera:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=maplespak&p=r
bob @ 63:
Joe Makes a Strategic Retreat
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/054292.php
Sy Hersch does his research and he spends a lot of time on his New Yorker articles--he doesn't shoot from the hip, he has impeccable sources and these are people inside the Pentagon, CIA, etc. It is because he has such credibility that he is able to get the info he does. People with far greater knowledge and brains than those in this administration know what the consequences are of such strikes.
I'd take Sy Hersch's word over anyone in this administration--and I certainly would not believe a word that Lieberman or Kyl say. Not....one....word! Just on the basis of their lies about the reason for the Iraq war--these clowns have zero credibility.
However, watch the usual suspects, Russert, ABC, CBS, Faux (especially), CNN, Matthews et al, get all excited about going to war. They won't ask one question, ask for any evidence or proof, it will be simply business as usual. It makes me sick!! But if anyone dissents and says "No" to this phony war, they of course will be challenged as being unpatriotic. If these clowns in the media had someone really stand up to them and show the public what asses they really are, we wouldn't be rapidly going down this path to war.
All those idiot congressional democrats who voted to designate the revolutionary guards as terrorists....who could have seen this coming??
Impeach the bastard.
let bush attack iran. then the WORLD will come over here and do what america is too stupid, scared, and short-sighted to do...STOP HIM. don't think of it as an invasion, think of it as "outsourcing our justice system".
"The Revolutionary Guards have done great damage to our troops in Iraq theater."
OK "Arlington Group" . Where's your solid proof for this incitement to war?
My question is not rhetorical. We were lied to left and right to stoke fear r.e.
Iraq. Where's your proof? Fox News doesn't count, Generals with a history of lying for the Administration (whether serving currently or functioning as on-air paid pundits) don't count. People like Perle, Feith, Wurmser, Rummy, Condi, Cheney, Bush, who were proved to have lied us into the Iraq debacle don't count).
Other former Bush Administration members who told us of intelligence later proved to be fabricated don't count (Tenet, Mueller, Colin Powell)
Where's your damn proof? Tell us now, and you MUST use sources that don't have blood soaked and tarnished reputations. Make your best case. Arlongton Group.
America is waiting.
Arlington Group challenge @ 70:
I'm not holding my breath. Arlington Group is good at drive by rhetoric and nothing else.
Arlington Group @ 4:
Two problems Arlington Group--this has not been demonstrated. secondly, as you state yourself--our troops in the "Iraq Theater" If you want them protected (which I sincerely doubt), bring them home from an illegal occupation.
otay@15 et al...
Clinton didn't fall into any trap. She knew exactly what she was doing. Cut through the carefully parsed words, and you find a Lieberman democrat.
sconset@66
Exactly right. Hershs' word is a "gold standard". In the thirty plus years I've read him, I don't recall a single word that didn't stand up. The only other person even close to that high standard is Bill Moyers.
Well, the constitution is only as valid as Bush says it it. . . lucky for him that congress agrees. . .
VietVet8666 @ 9:
To be more precise: AIPAC (executive power of neocons) = NAZI, the driving steady force for destruction of the US, for decades. All milestones reached, schedules met ahead of time ==> sheeple got on the bandwagon!
If there was ever any proof that Iran was really supplying IEDs and whatnot fueling the insurgency, they would have wheeled out the evidence by now. Instead all we get are 'claims' that they are, and when scrutinized so far, their claims don't pass the smell test.
The US has been committing terrorist attacks by proxy against Iran ever since we invaded Iraq.
Bushco has been harboring the terrorist group the MEK, training and supplying them with weapons and intel, and the MEK has been killing Iranian govt officials and attacking the Revolutionary Guard, blowing up facilities, in dozens of attacks so far, trying to bait an Iranian response.
level @ 14:
A few simple questions: Is there any action Bush could take "in pursuit of ter'rists" that you would not support? Do you believe that the president has the power to expand wars at will to any country and to any degree just because he's "the commander in chief?" Does the "commander in chief" title trump every other power within the U.S government?
sconset @ 66:
nancy.... exactly WHY is "impeachment off the table"?...
sorry sconset, my quote got in the middle of yours...my response to your Hersch comments:
Absolutely, Hersch is credible. In this segment however, he doesn’t provide much if any context. Nor does he (at least what was provided on C & L) any refutation or questioning of Iran’s involvement in Iraq. When one of our best journalists gets a shot on mainstream media TV, they MUST, ABSOLUTELY MUST do a much better job confronting the facts. I am extremely disapointed in Hersch. Sy, wake up man. You didn’t help a damn thing.
Cambodia 2007, It also helps out big oil with the "super spike" $100 and aipac loves the idea and will contribute large amounts in 08 to Repubs. Oh I love politics the search for more money and power. "Money is the mother's milk of politics" Tip O Neil
Does anyone know what China might do, after all they have deals with Iranians for oil, don't you think the Chinese might mind if US controls most of the worlds oil supply?
21st century China needs oil to become 21st century China, and yes the US knows it.
lowebar @ 72:
And, ENLIST yourselves, cheerleading from Arlington is not good enough while these dangerous Revolutionary Guards try to destruct Israel (Freedom Watch officiall doctrine). Which should exist for many reasons, but, your way of totally screwing the US is not going to get you the world domination you seek for Israel - the only missing bit of the puzzle that fits, and explains the US insanity in the last decades. Unfortunately, you are the most destructive force for long-term sustainability of Israel as well, but Israel of all Israelis, including the peaceful ones, not viagra-fueled chickenhawks Sharon's/Netanyahu's/LIEberman's/ Rahm Emanuel's, etc, uber-fascist state dictating whatever will remain of enslaved Americans how to keep enslaving Palestinians, and Iraqis, and Iranians, - Syria, next? (who are not angels, but pushed beyond despair by Israel's crimes against humanity, of ANY possible sort. Horrid Nazi methods are laughable in comparison). Rabin's real murderers still not found (just as JFK's)..If you enlist promptly, the 35K $$ sign-up bonus awaits you, so don't waste your precious time here, just say: YES !
Boom @ 58:
This is illegal: Warfare cannot be an option when there is no threat. Iran "might do something" is speculative. The US is using the speculation about Iran to support/advocate for certain illegal US action today.
Congress, in refusing to shut down funding for this illegal activity, can be found complicit with Geneva violations. Precedent: Nuremberg and Tokyo War Crimes trials, where civilian policy makers -- in a position of power and influence -- refused to act. The US government, with separated powers, shares across multiple branches, the responsibility to end illegal warfare; and shares responsibility for supporting and implementing unlawful warfare.
Prosecute Members of Congress for voting for illegal Iran-war-funding.
Step 1. Pass a resolution for the calling of part of Iran army a Terrorist group. check
Step 2. Hersh: "You can also sell counter-terror" with this new message and guess what they will use Clinton as the Dems messenger. check
Step 3. Drum beating from the Media and Print on-board with Bush. check
Step 4. Impeach or more War. ch___ fill in the blank
We needn't bother attempting to disect the Lieberman-Kyl amendment. All that matters to the administration is that there appear to be some miniscule semblance of Congressional support. Well, it certainly does that. Great job Democrats. That someone as knowledgeable as Levin would vote for this indicates that he (and we can assume the "top tier" Dem candidates too) have no problem with an attack/war on Iran. They are as complicit as Bush.
Levin, Stabenow, the rest of the Dems will never get my vote again. What do you do when there is no opposition party?
lowebar @ 85:
I'm amazed that, as a distraction from war crimes in Iraq, the US government is treating Geneva like its a parlor game.
AntiFed1791 @ 24:
Ditto ! Thanks for a brighter spot in this nightmare .. Hold on just till Dec 21, 2012 - the Earth will change it's "magnetic" plane/position in our solar system, in additon to never experienced before solar activity within our system leading to massive (possibly abrupt..) shifts in Earth's electro-magnetic field (s), incl. magnetic poles. Maya's astrologers didn't know ALL this stuff, but were onto smthg .. These phenomena are totally unknown, it has never happened before, nobody knows what's really going to happen - it's going to be most interesting .. So, give yourself a little more time..
C&L
Me: No, the media has been ordered to 'lap it up'.
Brigadier General (Res.) Oded Tira, Ynetnews, 12/30/2007:
Sy Hersh:
There is no nuclear threat. There is only the threat that this admin and Israel can make stick in the minds of the American people, much like Wolfowitz declaring they picked WMD because it would be the most acceptable to the American people. Any threat at all that can justify wiping out Tehran or any part of Iran. This is sickening.
C&L
Me: This wont work. Neither will calling the Whitehouse switchboard. 202-456-1111. They wont listen. They haven't listened. They don't care. Voter complaints do not equal campaign dollars. And if anyone -- anyone -- mentions Israel in their complaint, they will be branded antisemitic and their words dismissed outright. This is reality. Get used to it.
You need to make everyone call their local church, synagogue, temple, whatever -- even if atheistic, find a synagogue, temple, or church -- and complain.
I know this sounds dorky to most on this board, but this has more power. And it's immediate, because these guys at the local level talk to their national leaders. Grassroots buzz is more powerful than a call to a representative.
You wont even know if your call to Congress will be recorded. I spoke to my congressman's political liasion and he told me directly that he wouldn't bother to tell my congressman what I thought "because he already knows, we get so many of these calls."
At the very least, if you're going to do the congressmen route, do it locally.
First, a big thanks to "justabill" for all your comments and links.
We seem to have gone completely down the rabbit hole now -- where black is white, up is down, lies are truth, everything is completely upside down, and yet no one recognizes it.
Even if Iran IS involved in Iraq: who gives a shit? They're neighbors, with a long and complex history with one another. The Iranians have INFINITELY more right to be involved with Iraq than the U.S. ever could. How this is not self-evident to everyone on the planet is bewildering to me. It'd be like if Iran had illegally invaded the U.S., overthrown our government and occupied our country for 4 years -- and then those of us fighting to drive the occupation out got help from Mexico, so Iran said "We've got to invade Mexico now -- they're killing our boys!"
It's just f*cking insane.
It's like the term "Foreign Fighters" -- it doesn't even pass the laugh test, yet everyone accepts it as having some meaning. We brought a couple hundred thousand white Christians who don't speak Arabic and probably don't even know the difference between Sunni and Shiite 3000 miles across an ocean to take over Iraq -- and then have the utter audacity to bitch about "Foreign Fighters" in Iraq!!!
Last point: most of the foreign suicide bombers appear to be Saudis (no big surprise), while the Iranian government is allied with the new Iraqi government and are arch-enemies with groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban. So AT BEST this saber rattling against Iran is tactical idiocy, a distraction from the real enemy, and alienating a potential ally -- but that's only IF the U.S. government was REALLY concerned with fighting terrorism, which is clearly farcical.
p.s.:
Is anyone else irate about the fact that -- for a full 3 minutes -- the caption at the bottom of the screen says "Iranian Threat"??!!
(Why not "Pretext For War", or, "Another Disasterous War of Aggression Planned"? -- o.k., that last one might not fit...)
Otay @ 15:
She is NOT clueless - she IS AIPAC's grl, LIEberman's 'soul-sistah'..- as declared more than once..
Her houses in both Chapaqua, NY, and DC were purchased by the same people who are in Freedom Watch/AIPAC..
"There are only two reasonable options. Option A) Get everyone out by Midnight. Option B) Get them all out by midnight tomorrow. The fuel that drives this war is us.
_ Sy Hersh
Sorry -- I can't stop. I'm just bloody ENRAGED by this.
FACT: under the Bush Administration's own "Preemptive War Doctrine," Iran is FULLY 100% justified right now in attacking the U.S. (Indeed, they have 10 times more justification than we had for invading Iraq.)
Question: which is worse?: claiming that the holocaust if open for debate (and let me be clear: it's not, any more than the Native American holocaust is up for debate)? Or spitting on the U.N. Charter and the Geneva Accords, designed to prevent future wars of aggression, and essentially behaving like Nazi Germany? Whatta ya think, AIPAC? Israel? Anyone?
War makes for great ratings, which means dollars.
"This Week in War" has run its course. It's time for a spin-off. CNN will come up with a catchy new title, (Apocalypse Now?) and the rich wll get richer, and the chickenhawks will cheer the war on from their imposing positions at the keyboard, wearing their tighty-whities, and I too wish we would just get it over with.
It is profoundly depresssing. Sometimes I think I should just invest in Defense stock and stop fighting it, but I haven't gone that far off the edge yet.
Strawberry @ 28:
Go here: http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/kyl-lieberman.pdf
CappuccettoRosso @ 91:
That's right. And AIPAC wrote the Lieberman-Kyl amendment: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/II29Ak01.html
Stop CNN And Other Right Wing Media Networks From Warmongering
Until today, CNN, MSNBC and Fox reported France supported US interdiction in Iran. The US must not attack Iran in anyway without express permission from our congress. This is the main reason I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. Her vote to label the Iranian Revolutionary Guard terrorist is feeding Bush's drive to attack Iran. That one vote should take a lot of support from her.
I don't believe this president can be talking about another war. That being said; he actually has support from many Republican who are about to lose their seats in congress and senate behind war mongering.
Besides out of control gas prices, an attack on Iran could trigger nuclear war. At some point, the people in the Middle East have got to be tired of the US dropping their smart as bombs on innocent people.
I think this is a diversion strategy designed to keep the congress away from the impeachable related issues. There is 88 billion dollars unaccounted for. The more congress moves closer to these issues the more Bush does something outrages. A war would change the focus from Bush's "Godfather" behavior in Iraq with the contractors. This needs to be addressed more then the war. In fact, we should not send the war effort another dime until we can find out where this money went.
The media knows public opinion will have to be in Bush's favor if they are going to start another war. Why the media keep sending this message America knows what Iran is doing so it is okay to take actions is beyond me. The interview with Sy Hersh is designed to send the message that there are facts mounting up that are driving the need to war with Iran. The only problem about this is there is no proof. All of it remains classified. How convenient that must be. I have not scene one weapon from Iran going to Iraq. Bush was making this claim before he sent another battle group into Iran. Common guys he has been braodcasting this move for the last six month.
The next time Woff, Carlson or Matthews start talking like we have established truths concerning Iran, it would be fitting to let them know we may not agree with where and how he got his facts from. The more aggressive Bush gets over in Iraq and now Iran the move fearful I really become. I am barely making with the price of gas and connecting products affected by gas prices. This cannot happen, and Bush must tell us where the 88 billion dollars went.
Joseph, I am really pissed about this.
getalife @ 50:
"THEY' (AIPAC, and its tool, the Chimperor) don't listen and don't care. Whoever thinks along logical lines, even that the US has NO more military/humans to get into the next step io this insanity: how about 'they' know it, cannot sustain even Iraq madness any more, need the DRAFT, cannot get it w/out additional blow-up ?
If the consequences would involve social unrests ==> 'they' are ready, with Bush's executive order (last May) signed and sealed (and, AIPAC dems impotent, maybe willingly?, to get to it's contents..), and Halliburton Hospitalty Long-Term resort facilities ready, for millions, under FEMA's energency rules.. That's what FEMA's for, not some NOLA..
Read this - the link was provided by someone earlier on C&L.
We are already IN: http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=11666
September 25, 2007
What World War III May Look Like
Dumbass said: “This article is a travesty to our great nation. It will be immoral upon us not to protect our soldiers who are in the Iraq theater.”
Please stop with the "protect our troops" spin in defense of every damn thing said. Enough!
Did you all protect the troops for 6 years while they were blown to bits by IED's. The administration continued to fund the Osprey for $20B but couldn't fund a solution to one third of the troops being blown up. They refused to send or buy or manufacture equipment for them; kept sending in the Hummers. That worked didn't it.
When the troops return to the US they find their benefits cut; their medical care substandard; their financial situation in shambles.
Shut up about protecting the troops. The Democrats are the ones trying to do the job but can't get the Republicans in Congress or the Republican President to protect the troops.
Got it?
[...] 30th, 2007 by Jason Steck Convinced that the real enemy is the Bush administration, many in the media brigades continue to press the theory that the administration is cooking up excuse.... It is not difficult to concoct the appropriate conspiracy theory. Since they believe that [...]
This is how nations march to war. They might say "surgical strikes", as it sounds neat and clean, but the Iranians will see it as attack and war. Wait and see.
Casanova Frankenstein @ 64:
If a protest happens in Washington D.C., but we don't see it on CNN, did it really happen?
How do I know you didn't make all those videos in your basement, with your computer savvy children??? Hm??
What kind of a f---king nation has the USA become??? Maybe all the film crews were busy on some red carpet somewhere?? (Thanks for making the vids, and more importantly GOING!)
I contacted both my senators, Obama and Durbin about Kly/Leiberman resolution. Durbin replied to me that the president can not attack Iran without first getting approval from Congress. In reviewing this administrations track record, I didn't feel very reassured!
I saw this push on Fox news(sic) last night. They are pushing hard and scaring people. Maybe we should arrange to have them all tasered by police officers for inciting violence, death and destruction. Just a suggestion. BTW Hillary is not electable.
What the fuck is up with Seymour Hersh? Does he trim his sails in order to get his face on the mainstream craptastic shows like this one? What's with all his blather about the Iranian nuclear threat that doesn't fucking exist, something he knows full well? Where's the sense he gives off of an administration of complete fools, when he talks to someone like Amy Goodman? Is he a monumental twoface or something? Goddamnit, he's practically carrying water for the administration line here.
@getalife Shame on you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dK19sYq9fI
Jesus Christ, just want to walk up and slap that laugh off her face.
Hillary, for god's sake, just walk out of here and go show up at the Republican debates, you worthless bitch.
Propaganda ALERT: an update from the NYT re: Freedom Watch on IRAN
Fascist Freedom Watch = AIPAC.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/us/politics/30watch.html?hp=&pagewante...
Big Coffers and a Rising Voice Lift Group on the Right
By DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: September 30, 2007
Freedom’s Watch, a deep-pocketed conservative group led by two former senior White House officials, made an audacious debut in late August when it began a $15 million advertising campaign designed to maintain Congressional support for President Bush’s troop increase in Iraq.
Founded this summer by a dozen wealthy conservatives, the nonprofit group is set apart from most advocacy groups by the immense wealth of its core group of benefactors, its intention to far outspend its rivals and its ambition to pursue a wide-ranging agenda. Its next target: Iran policy.
Next month, Freedom’s Watch will sponsor a private forum of 20 experts on radical Islam that is expected to make the case that Iran poses a direct threat to the security of the United States, according to several benefactors of the group.
Although the group declined to identify the experts, several were invited from the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington research group with close ties to the White House. Some institute scholars have advocated a more confrontational policy to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, including keeping military action as an option."" Plse READ ALL of it !!
To refresh memory: one of the current stellar American Enterprise Instituteexperts is no other but WOLFOWITZ, who fell into their welcoming arms right after his infamous World Bank termination. His ho' - Shaha whatever, is supposedly an expert on this all - that's why sh'e traveled to Iraq for the US State Dept, NOT being even a US citizen (she has Libyan roots). That should set the experts' superior caliber.
NYT also says:
. “Ahmadinejad ... he wants.... the destruction of Israel.” - this obseession has put us on straight/PLANNED
path for the US destruction, decades ago.
"Mr. Fleischer said Freedom’s Watch was not coordinating with the White House and had an agenda beyond the Bush administration." - of course, it goes back to Elders of Zion/1921-26/, true or false, like it or not. ALL checks out !
"The idea for Freedom’s Watch was hatched in March at the winter meeting of the Republican Jewish Coalition....where Vice President Dick Cheney was the keynote speaker, according to participants."
''..said the group was hoping to raise as much as $200 million
by November 2008. Raising big money “will be easy,” the benefactor said,''
''.. group is organized as a tax-exempt organization,.... many of its donors and organizers are well connected to the administration, including Ari Fleischer, the former White House press secretary.''
''.. Among the group’s founders are Sheldon G. Adelson, the chairman and chief executive of the Las Vegas Sands Corporation, who ranks sixth on the Forbes Magazine list of the world’s billionaires; Mel Sembler, a shopping center magnate based in St. Petersburg, Fla., who served as the ambassador to Italy and Australia; John M. Templeton Jr., the conservative philanthropist from Bryn Mawr, Pa.; and Anthony H. Gioia, a former ambassador to Malta who heads an investment group based in Buffalo, N.Y. ''
Mr. Sembler, a friend of Vice President Dick Cheney, ... who is on the board of directors of the American Enterprise Institute, ... said the impetus for Freedom’s Watch “came out of A.E.I.” last winter. He said that at an institute event in December 2006 he listened to retired Gen. Jack Keane and Frederick W. Kagan, an A.E.I. scholar, talk about the need for a troop increase in Iraq, a plan adopted by Mr. Bush in January. “I realized it was not only what we needed to do,” Mr. Sembler said, “but we needed to articulate this message across the country.”
Mr. Fleischer said: “After the president announced the surge, and even Republicans started getting nervous, there was a palpable fear among several of us that this fall Congress was going to cut off the funding and the Middle East
would explode and America would likely get hit. It really wasn’t much more complicated than that.”
''Mr. Blakeman and Mr. Fleischer said they intended to turn Freedom’s Watch into a permanent fixture among Washington advocacy groups, waging a “never-ending campaign”
'''..The campaign was seen as a way to head off any momentum in Congress toward halting the financing for the Iraq war. The group’s advertisements, placed in nearly 60 Congressional districts in 23 states, targeted wavering moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats.
There is more on MoveOn.org !!
"" Mr. Fleischer said ..... “We will still be here after George Bush is gone.”
To whomever wrote the post(s) signed "Arlington Group". I made a little
challenge above in #70 to you to make your case and show your evidence
worthy of supporting and justifying a major attack in yet a 3rd country, Iran. You have my mea culpa for not knowing who your founders are and what your typical
policy priorities are. Now (thanks to our friend Google) that I know that you are deeply psychologically unbalanced lobbyists posing as religious leaders, (Dobson, Weyrick, late Falwell et al) I immediately rescind my generous offer to let you clarify your asinine post above. You are people who betray America's true and honorable meaning and values with every preposterous political machination you impose on our system. It would be a huge waste of all reasonable people's time to read what these animals say, except in the sense that insane zealots like you should be exposed, shunned, and quickly discarded once their sick rhetoric and conception of the world is exposed to normal (in the general sense of being reasonably socially well adjusted and basically psychologically mature adults) human beings' scrutiny.
fourmorewars @ 107:
EXCELLENT link ! That laugh of hers is worse than Chimperor's .. What a glib lying bitch !! How could anybody sane vote for her ??!! (I am a woman, for women, but NOT HER --any gender comments: N/A !!)
for those of you who still have your hands over your ears and eyes, you had better wake up. a number of us have been saying bush/cheney will attack iran for more than a year now. these bastards are hellbent in destroying the United States and the World. Money is their motive and the OIL.
how long before the people in this country Impeach bush/cheney before they fuck everyone over? raise you IQ higher than a turnip.
Arlington Group challenge rescinded @ 109:
GREAT footwork ! That means Dobson & cohorts are monitoring C&L !!!! John - do you read this ??!!
[...] And Video of Sy Hersh [...]
What is it going to take for people to wake up?! Now this country is going to attack Iran?! - I'm confused - for what now?!...Because they want to "destroy" Israel?! - the same Israel that has one of the most powerful militaries in the entire world, the same Israel that is the only country in the middle-east that has nuclear weapons and can wipe out any nation that attacks it, the same Israel that uses the billions of American tax dollars they receive every year to continue an illegal occupation of other peoples' land?!...is that is why we are going to attack Iran?!...
Man, WWIII seems closer every day. This totally sucks...
hareli @ 88:
Brigadier General (Res.) Oded Tira, Ynetnews, 12/30/2007:
Joseph @ 97:
The next time Woff, Carlson or Matthews start talking like we have established truths concerning Iran, it would be fitting to let them know we may not agree with where and how he got his facts from. The more aggressive Bush gets over in Iraq and now Iran the move fearful I really become. I am barely making with the price of gas and connecting products affected by gas prices. This cannot happen, and Bush must tell us where the 88 billion dollars went.
Joseph, I am really pissed about this.
I'm pissed too. Make them pay a price by protesting outside their homes for the comments that they make!! This doesn't just apply to those named above.
Anyone who lies for the neocons and warmongers needs to explain to their children and neighbors why crowds are showing up on the streets in their neighborhoods or outside the gates of their neighborhoods.
CappuccettoRosso @ 108:
NYT also says:
. “Ahmadinejad ... he wants.... the destruction of Israel.” - this obseession has put us on straight/PLANNED
path for the US destruction, decades ago.
Talk about plans on destroying people. This is the early PNAC plan
Read the following strangely prophetic segment from an article published in 1982 by the World Zionist Organisation's publication Kivunim and penned by Oded Yinon, an Israeli journalist with links to the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
Yinon's strategy was based on this premise. In order to survive Israel must become an imperial regional power and must also ensure the break-up of all Arab countries so that the region may be carved up into small ineffectual states unequipped to stand up to Israeli military might. Here's what he had to say on Iraq:
"The dissolution of Syria and Iraq into ethnically or religiously unique areas such as in Lebanon is Israel's primary target on the Eastern frontIraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other is guaranteed as a candidate for Israel's targets. Its dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria. In the short run, it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel.
"An Iraqi-Iranian war will tear Iraq apart and cause its downfall at home even before it is able to organize a struggle on a wide front against us. Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and Lebanon.
"In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul and Shiite areas in the South will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north."
Sound familiar?
http://www.counterpunch.org/heard04252006.html
enough
justabill: great posts. Informative.
God Help us all.
The decision to invade Iran has already been made- The Bushies will simply make up reasons as they go along, and attack the patriotism of those who disagree with them...oh, and the 08' election might be seen as a "threat to freedom", so don't be shocked when that gets suspended...
type 4 @ 69:
though the British people oppose Bush, I think britian will support a US invasion of Iran-because there are some in parliment who pine for the days of the empire...
If we invade Iran- is it to protect america- or protect Israel? Sometimes I think the US is fighting a defacto war in the Middle east on Israel's behalf...
What is the real reason the powers that be are bent on war with Iran. Nukes aren't selling, most of the evidence of Iranian meddling in Iraq has been false - so why? We don't have the troops occupy it, so we won't get the oil, and further China will have alot to say about what we do with their contracted oil, as will India. Russia would not be too happy to have the United States of the Mideast on their border, so what on earth are these neo-freakes thinking of?
Choam Nomsky @ 123:
Neither.
Play this in a separate window while listening to Hersh and you won't feel so bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTAUeY3vDjk
GetReal @ 83:
The problem is that Congress, including the democrats, is buying into the neocon doctrine of preemptive strikes.
lowebar @ 85:
One needn't look far to see where Levin stands, ideologically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj0m0dSUPR8
Voice of America and Fiasco at Persian Service.
There is no need to attack Iran IF the Bush Administration pays attention:
Millions of dollars are spent in Persian Service of Voice of America but the end result is nothing but scandalous way of cockamamie management and programming.
It is hard to believe but the Persian Service which supposed to be an organization to convey the policy of the U.S. has become a free platform for hard-line terrorist group of communists who attack the United Sates!
I have the documents in writings to prove that these were done with the full knowledge of the management.
I used to work there and as I said before, I have all the documents in writings.
The manager is a woman called Sheila Gandji who can not read and write Persian. Therefore, in order to hide this shortcoming from the higher management, she has hired an eighty something man called Kambiz Mahmoudi who has a lengthy background as crook and in charlatanism.
You expect a doctor to be in charge of a medical clinic. You expect an engineer to be in charge of an engineering department. You expect a plumber to fix your plumbing.
So why do you expect a person who has no education in Iran and doesn't know the language of that country should be in charge of publicity, literature or politic for such position?
Sheila Gandji falsely pretended and presented herself as educated with background in journalism. These are absolute fabrications. Nobody in Iranian communities inside of the country or outside has any knowledge about her being a journalist, then and now.
Her partner, Kambiz Mahmoudi is a hateful and despicable person whose activities as crook are widely known through out Iran. Can't the U.S. government appoint somebody without such shameful background and baggage?
Don’t think that this is a personal vendetta.
Let me quote you a view from another media:
"The Iran Steering group concluded that much of the anti-American perspective that is broadcast is the result of decisions made by station managers in Washington D.C. and Prague. Sheila Gandji, the manager of Persian service has faced sharp criticism, particularly for her decision to stop VOA shortwave radio program in July, 2006 in order to focus on television broadcasts, which are more susceptible to censorship, since the government regularly confiscates satellites dishes in order to prevent the infiltration of foreign broadcasts."
This is not the only one. The mismanagement at the Persian Service of Voice of America is the subject of hundreds of sites and articles indicative of disgusts and ridicules in the world about VOA.
The bizarre situation at the Persian Service of Voice of America caused even the Republican Senator Coburn to write a long letter to President Bush about the fiasco there.
It is only in America where the government pays to be insulted. Really, why Voice of America is doing this harm to our nation?
I'm going to get some popcorn and a nice drink, sit back and watch the USA implode. Say bye bye.
[...] Crooks and Liars Brave New Films Hullabaloo The Next Hurrah The Nation The Newshoggers Taylor Marsh American Street Prairie Weather Bark Bark Woof Woof The Garlic A Tiny Revolution [...]
[...] reached the tipping point, as evinced by these blogosphere reactions to his new article: Crooks and Liars Brave New Films Hullabaloo The Next Hurrah The Nation The Newshoggers Taylor Marsh American Street [...]
Nothing Else Matters
America is a pretty dumbed-down place these days, so I think that
most people will support the president if he attacks Iran.
The public supported, by over 70%, his plan to "shock and awe" Iraq into democracy.
The public thought it would be a piece of cake. It wasn't until 3,000 Americans had
died for nothing that the public got a bit impatient. And now, the public really isn't that
upset that Bush is running the bogus surge.
Not only that, you just KNOW that the public eventually will blame Democrats for Bush's failure.
The public is pretty f***ing stupid these days.
doesn't iran have some pretty nasty toys? ...unlike iraq when we went in there. if amerika bombs - i expect an aircraft carrier to go down.
As a matter of principal and just plain common decency I find it despicable that we have people on national television proposing that we attack other countries. Shouldn't this be frowned upon on so many levels? We should attack Iraq! We should attack Iran! How can people put up with all this warmongering rhetoric? It's disgusting.
"Hillary is not electable." I almost agree. She's at least the least electable.
Better start talking to some friends, though.
I have this weird sensation that the country is comforted by having Bill lurking around the WH again. As much as he's said he won't be the boss, we all know he'll keep her from doing anything profoundly stupid. And post-Bush The Lesser, that's all most of us need.
Me, I'm an Edwards guy.
While Burma Bleeds, the Administration's Still Shuffling Toward Iran.
Posted by Damozel | RAMPING UP? In the meantime, while Burma---where the people are crying out for democracy---lies bleeding, the Bush Administration is allegedly ramping up the preparations for surgical strikes against Iran. So says Seymour Hersh of T...
The Plan to Attack Iran - Again
What's interesting is Hersh has really put his reputation out on a limb here. If the US does attack Iran, I suppose he will be vindicated. If, by the end of 2008, the US does not, he will look pretty foolish indeed. Another possibility is that Israel...
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