Hardball: Graham Nash and David Crosby On Music's Ability To Amplify Public Sentiment
By Nicole Belle Monday Oct 15, 2007 4:45pm
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Later this evening, Graham Nash, David Crosby and a host of other musicians will be headlining "Pray for Peace" concert at the National Cathedral in DC. Yesterday they sat down with Chris Matthews and discussed the changing tide over protest music in this country (remembering how the Dixie Chicks were treated) and how different public sentiment is now than it was during the Vietnam conflict.
Information about the concert tonight, courtesy of co-performer Jackson Browne:
The 6 pm prayer ceremony and 7:30 pm concert began as a collaborative effort between Graham Nash and Bishop Chane after His Holiness the Dalai Lama visited Washington National Cathedral in 2003 promoting the concept of universal responsibility. Both vowed to make Pray for Peace a reality when the Nobel Peace Prize recipient made a return visit to Washington, D.C. The Dalai Lama is to receive the Congressional Gold Medal for what Congress calls "his enduring and outstanding contributions to peace, non-violence, human rights and religious understanding" in the Capitol Rotunda on October 17, 2007.
"People of faith need to make their voices heard both within their temples, cathedrals, mosques and holy places, and beyond," says Bishop Chane. "They must take the lead in advocating for an end to violence." Graham Nash states, "To me, it has always been the most 'un-religious' of actions to kill human beings in the name of God. It is time for the religious community to help put a stop to this madness by coming together and denouncing these killings. Many religious leaders are joining us at the cathedral to literally ‘Pray for Peace.' I hope you have the courage to join us."
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"12 dead in Ohio..."
Music is still powerful.
jtmonty46 @ 1:
sorry...four. Working too hard.
OT: Speaking of protests....I just saw news that the U.S. House of Reps today
voted 395 to 21 to "protest"/rubuke the State Dept. for its refusal to make available
to the public details relating to the corruption that has occurred within Iraq. Of course
it is a "non-binding" resolution, so seriously doubt if it'll have any impact.
Good to see Crosby still kicking around. He seems to have his medical issues under control.
Every voice that speaks out like this is a good voice. I just saw a clip of them being interviewed by, I think it was CNN. Imagine if they had said this four years ago, they would have been Dixie Chick-ed. Times have changed at least that much.
Hi still love these guys
Old Billy @ 4:
Yeah,but he's lost a lot of weight.He looks very thin.
Anyway yeah-these guys have been tight forever and it is great to see them still actively trying to promote peace.
Clytemnestra @ 6:
I still love, will always love these guys ... wish I could be at the concert
I'm not a CM fan. I don't buy his "I was against the war from the beginning. " but in this clip he equates the Dixie Chicks and Bill Maher to DON IMUS.
Yeah right! Imus is a beacon we should look to for guidance? The man is a pig and we should built a trench around him.
It is a "sell Imus" week I guess and CM drops another fathom on the credibility scale for me.
Speaking of protesting, does anyone know of any protests happening about the current war, the build up to war in Iran, the loss of civil liberties or any of the other topics we read about everyday. I keep looking at MoveOn.org and other activist sites but it seems there's not a lot of action being taken in the public arena lately. Am I just missing the boat? Is there anywhere that these protests are still happening and any attempts to pull in large numbers of protesters again?
Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.
Robin,
I couldbe wrong but I think he was saying Imus trashed the Dixie Chicks. Of course, I'd be curious to see what Chris Matthews had to say at the time. I vaguely remember him being pretty pro-war but I might be confusing him with every other media voice at the time.
I understand the need for gathering together but what's up with the prayer thing? If we howl loud enough will the magic invisible sky daddy send his flying saucers from outer space to save us?
I wonder if Crosby and the Dalai Lama will be kicking around the relative merits of the Glock 9MM versus the Smith & Wesson 45 cal.?
How many people have to die before we can listen to the Dixie Chicks again?
I appreciate the efforts that these folks are taking now to put a stop to this insanity but let's face, it's a lot easier to be against something as touchy as this is now when the majority is with them. Screw Matthews, I would never accuse him of being anything resembling a journalist; and Crosby and Nash where were you when we needed you. Kudos to Natalie Maines and the Dixie Chicks and folks like Steve Earle who said what they believed and knew was right right from the beginning. Those folks are patriots to me and more, they're good human beings.
for all those who died in it, please call it the Vietnam War, not the Vietnam `conflict'.
Old Billy @ 4:
Pretty easy to do when even as a chronic alcoholic and drug user you move to the top of the liver donor list because of your "celebrity".
Paleeze. Don't get me started.
I was elated to hear someone say out loud what I've been thinking all along. No Draft = Limited Outcry. And not just from draft age people...more mothers and grandmothers would be out in the street and marching on Washington if THEIR kids were in any danger of being sent over. I'm anti-draft, myself, but when Tweety started giving that "best of the best" line about current "volunteers," he ignores the bar lowering that had to occur to get as many people as they have.
Bring them home.
kudos to Crosby and Nash for speaking truth to power decade after decade
Medford Tim @ 18:
If the beginning draft age was 45 this war would be over next week.
biff @ 16:
Biff, I understand your sentiment, but let me tell you why I disagree.
Having gone through the Vietnam 'spat,' I would prefer that people be reminded that it - just as Iraq - is NOT a declared war. It is at best a police action and every congress person should be reminded on a daily basis that they have abdicated their responsibilities yet again and ought to feel SHAME for letting down the service people in their hour of need. THEY are what stand between the Services and lying, power-mad Presidents.
I don't care if it's an R or a D - there are very, very few members of Congress who can hold their heads up for trying to do the right thing when it mattered. Vietnam was never declared; it was NOT a war. Iraq has never been a war - it is a "mission." I keep waiting for someone to answer WHO we are supposed to be at "war" with. Not Iraq itself...we gave them their "independence" back a couple of years ago - they are now allies, right? Why would we be at war with an ally?
I will accept both "mistake" and "debacle" for either situation, though.
jtmonty46 @ 20:
I've said much the same, except I make it 60 and start with highest income first and work down from there - and ALL politicians are eligible, including the Commander-in-Chief. There would NEVER be another war. If a politician knew that their vote might actually directly affect their own lives, they'd be a lot more circumspect in their voting...
back in the day, radio ownership was more diverse. today, with clear channel owning almost everything, it's all about rush limbaugh and the rest of the fascist cheerleaders. the protest songs of yesterday would never get airtime in todays radio world.
The simple answer and they both said it...."there is no draft". There is a handful of Americans paying for this war. If there was every American paying for this war the anti-war movement would be huge. If a Malkin or Hannity child was fighting, their tune would be different. I'm anti-war but pro-draft. In this draft there should be no Cheney deferments. Which would mean a Jenna, Laura and Prescott Bush would be fighting. Knowing this, a George Bush would not have sent us into Iraq.
One problem. Any politician who would bring the draft to the floor would commit political suicide. A political post is more important to a politician than a country and its people.
#10-Stupid Git
The excellent site After Downing Street.org usually has updates of protests against the occupation that are happening across the country. United for Peace and Justice and ANSWER are anti-war organizations that alert people on their web sites about protests that are going on in the future.
as a family band we try to make a music for peace - some youtube videos have been done with our stuff as well here is "the earnest soldier" Our family wrote this song just before the Iraq war began. We had decided - after not participating in protests that we had a choice - oppose the war or those that could go fight in it. We chose to protest and this song was our first attempt to honor the soldiers who die in our name by opposing the people who send them to fight. There are also youtube videos of "Hey Dick! Anmore Brilliant Ideas?" and "Extraordinary Rendition" here
jtmonty46 @ 20:
If the draft enlisted kids from families in the top 10% of income earners, the war would be over tomorrow morning.
They stand up for THEIR principles , unlike most comfortable millionaires from both sides , but I can't help to think The left creates the most artistic music from most eras , I mean how many times can you listen to cAt sCratch fEver , and speaking of the bow-shooting-little-animal-killing-blood lust-coward Ted Nugent , why doesn't he stand up for his beliefs and GO JOIN the RESERVES , if he's thaT MUCH into watching other living animals bleed to death , step up nuge , you might even find another under age Hawaiin girl in Iraq or an IED .
Music has always been a medium for revolution. Perhaps with the demise of corporate record labels it will be once again.
Music touches our souls in a much more emotional and spiritual way than words alone, I think. Music also literally resonates in us, linking our souls together and causing us to feel the power of the words being carried by the music much more deeply.
Young performers don't speak out today because their careers are trashed before they even take off. We need to really come down hard on these mean media pundits who go after people exercising their free speech and assembly rights. They're the problem, not the young performers who don't do protest concerts.
Damn it! I wish I could have watched this at work.
I was going to my hotel from work this evening ... work is just a 1/4 mile from the National Cathedral ... and there was a veritable traffic pileup near the Cathedral. If I had only known! I would have gone to the services/performance.
Hell right! If there were a law that said there must be a draft for every war the US engages in, we'd have no wars for profit like the one we're in.
Johnny2Bad @ 17:
Got proof?
CM is like a lot of these guys. You could see Tucker even try to be more moderate/cool -- yeah it didn't work-- on Maher's show. He says "I was with you then and I am with you now" like that's some insta-credibility--after throwing Imus in with Dixie Chicks. CM has been OK lately, honest, somewhat OK, reminding viewers that like 80% of the country is against war, but man, all these suckups do is try to play ALL sides.
I just hate how Graham says that Tweety was "asking the questions about this war" in 2003. I can only assume he doesn't know better or is just sucking up to the host. I'd hope the former is true.
I think they are right, bring in the draft and people will wake up, they don't care at the moment.
Say the word prayer and I want nothing to do with it. There is nothing more useless than prayer. It's 2007 and with all we know and all we have learned about this universe, to keep on with this religious crap and prayer is ignorance at its finest.
End our occupation and get out is all you need to say, don't bring religion, god, and prayer into the mix. We have murderous brutal leaders in this country and they all profess to believe in god and pray and I am sick of it.
I just watched the end of this. (The clip is a little goofy.)
Tweety is a doosh, in that he acts like he's been on board the whole time to suck up to his guests. As if we're supposed to believe he was protesting Viet Nam when he was young. Gimme a break!
Eff him! Liar.
this is pure unadulterated crap. Chris Matthews while talking with crosby and nash would appear to be one of the most liberal supporters of the movement against the administration and the war. but he wafts, he says what is expedient at the time. but then again, how is he any different from any other "journalist" on the air waves today. in truth, he is not. they are all out for the ratings, for the "anchor" slot that will propel them to ultimate fame and fortune. and meanwhile, the country sinks further into the abyss because they lack the fortitude to do what's right. so chris matthews until you are ready to say and ask those of the right the hard questions as opposed to your softball approach, i personally don't want to hear from you patronizing the left.
Tweety is the worst suck up. Oh yeah I'm your friend. Telling Crosby and Nash that there used to be record stores. What an Ass!
Tweety's bosses are ther ones who destroyed music and the independant record stores. His corporate overlords who consolidate everything into one mass/mall.
CSN&Y are my favs!
Oh yeah...Peace and vote Kucinich!
im sorry, but in the 60s, it was the mainstream artists that were leading the charge
who the hell is gonna listen to these old fucks other than us old fucks
and out of the current mainstream artists, who the hell is there to take seriously?
Graham Nash and David Crosby have so much class. They could have easily slapped Tweety around on his own show, but instead chose to focus on why they were on his fucking show in the first place - to discuss the need for dialogue and it's role in promoting peace. Still, it would have been kinda cool if, during Tweety's bullshit rhapsodizing about the anti-war movement, Crosby or Nash would have pointed out what a serious mancrush Matthews had on "The Commander Guy" back in the day of "Mission Accomplished" I watched that clip and was astounded that Matthews could spout the bullshit he did with a straight face.
Chris Mathews is a LIAR and bullshitter. Someone should pull all his clips in 2002/2003 when he was pushing for the War. Now the tables have turned and he's against it. It's very plain to see that all he is is an OPPORTUNIST! I don't buy anything he has to stay, and he doesn't even come close to the inegrity of someone like Keith Oberman! So shut up Mathews, you make me SICK!
uncle joe mccarthy @ 40:
Springsteen, oh, no wait he's an old fart. Then again, at 40 so am I.
Matthews was as obsequious and giggly as a hippie chick on nitrous. Crosby & Nash outclassed his lily-ass!
Where's the nod to Joni Mitchell ... Shine should be included in the list of new releases that take aim at the war and the entitled who lead/lied their way into so much destruction.
Sany @ 42:
Thank you! It's true. He flipped and flopped into his current position like a true politician. It sickens me to hear him out peddling his book. Fuck you Chris. Where were you when it mattered. Thank you Bill Maher, Keith Oberman, and Mr. Colbert for keeping it real.
David Crosby: The best argument yet as to why kids should always finish their milk & eat their vegetables !
web_geek @ 32:
(Ok, I warned you)
Not one bit that would stand up in court but I don't give a shit. My brother (a "nobody") has been waiting two years since he got HepC from a transfusion. Crosby has received two, TWO f*cking livers after destroying his own perfectly good one voluntarily. Twice mind you and he was charged with possession after the second transplant. Alcoholics Larry Hagman (another "twofer"), Pat Summerall and Mickey Mantle all drank away their originals and went to the top of the list.
So "proof" no, no "proof" . But IMO alcholics shouldn't get one liver let alone two. This woman was back drinking two weeks later. But hey, let'sgive her another, she's hot.
You think Crosby got his second because he deserved it? F*ck him.
Pickles @ 46:
I totally agree. Chris Matthews is sucking up to save his show. What a jerk. A jerk with no balls.
We had all their vinyl at my house. Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young were a bit part of growing up. Scores of others too. Who says, dismisses us as, "dirty old hippies"-- we had consciences and were against the war in Vietnam, and said so, very loudly. Now it's all Ipods and keyboards and more shopping. I liked what they had to say.
They are supporting Obama for president.
I love that they are back but they should support Kucinich. Only the Kuch represents what they truly believe in. Too bad. They could have given Kucinich a hearty, well deserved boost in recognition.
tr @ 23:
If you've listened to the new Springsteen CD, Magic, you'd hear a number of powerful protest songs such as Gypsy Biker, Long Walk Home and The Last to Die. But if you don't buy it, you won't. Mass corporate ownership of multiple radio stations, as in Clear channel, hae muted the voice of dissent on the airwaves. Tragic on many levels.
"Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here!
Too many people have lied in the name of Christ
For anyone to heed the call.
So many people have died in the name of Christ
That I can't believe it all."
Graham Nash - "Cathedral"
GonzoD @ 53:
Fantastic post.
I'd forgotten all about that song. Does that say it all, or what?
uncle joe mccarthy @ 40:
The Viet Nam protests weren't much different... there is this romantic notion that EVERYBODY was against the Viet Nam war and there were all these protest songs coming from mainstream music... not quite... check out Phil Och's "Small Circle Of Friends".
Christ almighty, "UP With People" was one of the overall best selling alnums at that time. I don't ever remember Brian Wilson penning any anti-war songs for the Beach Boys
It isn't until it becomes OK to be against a war that artists start coming out of the woodwork to "protest"
Steve Earle, The Dixie Chicks, Neil Young, Elvis Costello were out ahead of this YEARS ago.
Burt Bacharach even did a virulant anti- Bush administration album called "In These Times" about five years ago featuring, among other artists, Chris Botti and Elvis Costello.
Burt Bacharach for Christ's sake!!!
This is great the Crosby and Nash, Bruce Springstien and Joni Mitchell are releasing anti-war material... better late than never.
But for awhile there it didn't seem to 'anarest anybody outside of a small circle of friends
Here is the video of the Oct 16 Press Conference for the Pray for Peace concert
http://video1.cathedral.org/wmv/pressconf071016.wmv
http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/centennial/prayforpeace.shtml
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/16/AR200710...
John Bryson Chane, Episcopal bishop of Washington, the evening's emcee, quoted Nash:
"No person has the right to take another person's life in the name of God."
Churches and religions should be instruments of peace, not war", he said.
Thank you.
About CM being against the war in the beginning. He was one of few that at-least implied that this was wrong...one of a very few... And do remember the climate; he would be on the street the next day if he had gone stronger. No guests, no ad money, gone. I remember sitting holding my breath many times that he would go all the way not letting the war mongers of the hook. Sometimes he sat them up beautifully just to let them slip trough the net when the heat started but at least he implied, one of the very very few.
It's ironic and frustrating that even the church suffers from the same ills of the world (by nature of being made up of imperfect people), in light of which Nash's emotional response is quite understandable. At the same time, far, far more good than bad has been done in this world in the name of Christ, and I think Nash would have to agree once presented with the facts.
I don't believe my parents. They are stupid, I am brighter than them. They wouldn't know what it is to be a good human if it bit them in the behind. Idem dito con senior Bush....
I wonder what music GW Bush used to listen to when he was a kid, or when he was in college, or when he was drunk off his ass snorting coke off some stripper's ass. Would Bush actually listen to some of those folks if they told him what a douche he is being?
HOT NEW ROCK GROUP — CROSBY, NASH AND GRAEME FROST — TAKE ON THE RIGHT-WINGERS
pinkobait @ 7:
it took only ... forever ... the kids are not as swift as they used to be ... also will someone sack that robed-fucker and return him to his native land: Switzerland .. that fucker supposedly has been amassing power for the last umpteenth re-incarnation and still can not do shit on anything .... one would think that a 'god' would have enough power to stop such a tiny little war ... it is not like a world war ..., by the way at what stage of 're-incarning' -I know, I know- was that cocksucker in 1939?
For the morons who believe in re-incarnation -like the geniuses at scientology- can one of you idiots tell me when and why did re-incarnation come to be? When the fuck did it start?!... and I know of at least 6-7 thousands imbeciles who know for sure that they are the re-incarnation of Cleopatra ... and they can prove it .... they still have a picture of the 'god-cat' they had ...
Greg @ 24:
An all-volunteer military is a fine idea on paper, but what results is a military filled with kids who can't find a job anywhere else while chickenhawk rich kids let the less advantaged fight their wars for them.
In the 1950's, when the draft was in effect, the United States maintained the peace simply by demonstrating to the Russians and the Chinese with the draft that we were willing to make all of our (at the time, male) citizens be ready to go to war to protect our country. I believe it made Russia and China understand we meant business.
Admittedly, during the Vietnam War, politicians of both parties used the draft to make up for the poor policy decisions they made. American youth became nothing more than cannon fodder because it was not a true universal draft, the rich and the chickenhawks like Cheney avoided service and poor and middle class kids of all races did the fighting and dying.
If we truly have a war on terror, the only way to fight it is with a univeral draft, that NOBODY gets out of, rich, poor, male, female...everyone from 18 to 30. No deferments. And if you can't serve in the military, require all who can't to perform public service for an equivalent amount of time. This would send a powerful message to Al Quaida and anybody else that if you fuck with us, and we ALL come down on you.
But, that draft must also be coupled with providing the troops with the best equipment possible, and providing veterans care and benefits far beyond what the GI Bill did for WW2 vets. And, the draftees must have a guarantee that they will serve for a certain period of time only and will not have their tours extended over and over again.
I suspect that not many people tell you what a disgrace you are. A man who has never served his country, has been blessed with wealth and fame, and has never had to work for a living. And, more importantly, you're so out of touch with reality that you attack the source of your good fortune at the expense of those who defend and protect you from the real evils of the world we live in. And you revile them. A trust fund baby who has never had to work for a living, has lived the good life in California, and, yes, you've paid the price of your excesses, which are of your own doing.
In short, you're a traitor to your country, you aid and abet an enemy who would joyously behead you and your family (and mine), simply because you're not like them. And you call us the bigots, the war mongers, the intolerant ones. Take a step outside of your insular world and breathe the air. Just don't make the mistake of confronting me and people like me with your treasous propaganda.
I'm Mike Hinton, I'm a veteran, and I live in Saint Charles, Missouri.
Hey buddy Crosby and Nash are like gods and they are my friends so you'd better watch it.
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