Abdallah Higazy coerced by FBI agent to plead guilty by torture
By John Amato Monday Oct 22, 2007 11:01amThis story is wild. (updated)
The long and the short of it was that an Egpytian national, Abdallah Higazy, was staying in a hotel in New York City on September 11 and the hotel emptied out when the planes hit the towers. The hotel later found in the closet of his room a device that allows you to communicate with airline pilots. Investigators thought this guy had something to do with 9/11 so they questioned him. According to Higazi, the investigators coerced him into confessing to a role in 9/11...Higazi first adamantly denied any involvement with 9/11 and could not believe what was happening to him. Then, he says, the investigator said his family would go through hell in Egypt, where they torture people like Saddam Hussein....read on
While Steve Bergstein was reading the opinion posted online by the court, he noticed another bizarre twist in this case:
Then something strange happened: a few minutes after I posted the blog, the opinion vanished from the Court of Appeals website! I had never seen this before, and what made all the more strange was that it involved a coerced confession over 9/11. What the hell was going on?
The court system wanted to redact a portion of the ruling on the grounds of protecting National Security, but really they just wanted to cover up this heinous act against Higazy who sued and won. Read the full article for the lowdown. As others have suggested, why isn't this story receiving some media attention? Oh, right, the media was busy informing the public that Dumbledore is gay. Priorities, people! Howard Bashman has much more....And this just proves yet again that torture doesn't work. Hey, let's have Brit Hume ask Mitt Romney if torture works again and what kind of cell should Higazy occupy after he's been sent to the double Gitmo facility he wants so badly. (h/t Ryan)
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All your first post are belong to me !
Before this gets too wild, check your facts or actually read the opinion. Templeton interrogated Higazy on December 27th, 2001, not the day of 9/11.
I heard Dumbledore was gay. Why aren't we talking about that?
All our blog is belong to tasering you.
That's what all you lefty intellexuals get for being so smoochy-smoochy with IslamoGlobalEcoFascistWarmers and Unshaven Lesbian Tofu Slatherers.
Kevin Hayden @ 6:
That's a WMD right there ........... Women Marauding for Doufu.
As for the OP ........... I'd think there is far too much noise and smoke screens, the truth will never come out or be found, who ever wins will rewrite history, and that will be the ones with the money or military, so Captain Chip and his cohorts .....
You know, nobody wants rehashes of the conspiracy theories but who can deny that new information that is always coming out like this cover-up that seems mighty suspicious. Why did they need suspects so badly that they threatened to torture a mans family? Why is Bin Laden not important anymore to this administration, is it because they know he is not guilty? Too many questions, perhaps we need to revisit and re investigate but this time a truly independent study with persons outside our government to do the study. LOL Perhaps a crew from Canada who wouldn't be influenced by our gestapo. From within there is too much influence to stifle some of the evidence. It would serve two purposes, either prove beyond a doubt that those who are screaming out conspiracy are correct or incorrect which may finally silence them.
Is there anyone who really trusts this administration enough to say they would bet their lives that it wasn't an inside job?
Jeez, guess we should expect another 'new' BinLaden tape hey?
Freakaloin @ 5:
As I said, John, before this gets too wild please correct the story. Higazy wasn't even arrested until Dec 17th. The story is good enough on its own, it doesn't need exaggerating or giving detractors ways to distract from the torture debate we should be having in this country.
The conduct of the FBI in the days, weeks, months after 9-11 was both criminal and treasonous. Journalist Daniel Hopsicker traveled to Florida (location of a couple of the flight training schools) right after 9-11 and discovered that the first-person eyewitnesses there were contradicting what the FBI was telling the public (about "Islamic fundamentalist" Mohamed Atta and his cohorts, as well as these flight schools, which it turns out were not in any way, shape or form legitimate businesses and were really just fronts for govt. sanctioned drug running operations), and they were all being threatened by the FBI to keep their mouths shut.
Confirmation of this is provided by FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, who had a top secret clearance at the time, and is the most gagged person in U.S. history:
"If they were to do real investigations [into 9-11] we would see several significant high level criminal prosecutions in this country. And that is something that they are not going to let out. And, believe me; they will do everything to cover this up."
"The most important thing is there are individuals who are engaged in acts of treason, okay. People from the State Dept, people from the Pentagon - some of these individuals are already under some quasi-investigations. I mean, we hear things about Douglas Feith, we are hearing things about Richard Perle, but trust me, they are not putting everything that there is out there. Because when you are looking at organizations like the American Turkish Council here, and you see the sister organization is AIPAC. AIPAC helped form the American Turkish Council - look at the board members, look at the people. You will see the same people involved in both fronts, because it is the same operation. And you come across the same individuals over and over again. You know, I don't understand how the case only ended up stopping with Larry Franklin - and I still can't believe that the evidence that they had from the parallel investigation didn't get its way into the court. You need to look at individuals like Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Marc Grossman, Dennis Hastert, and others. And documented evidence they have collected on these people. What are they doing with this information?"
"But I can tell you that the issue, on one side, boils down to money--a lot of money. And it boils down to people and their connections with this money, and that's the portion that...has not been mentioned to this day. Because then it starts touching some people in high places."
"The most significant information that we were receiving did not come from counter-terrorism investigations, and I want to emphasize this. It came from counter-intelligence, and certain criminal investigations, and issues that have to do with money laundering operations.
"You get to a point where it gets very complex, where you have money laundering activities, drug related activities, and terrorist support activities converging at certain points and becoming one. In certain points - and they [the intelligence community] are separating those portions from just the terrorist activities. And, as I said, they are citing 'foreign relations' which is not the case, because we are not talking about only governmental levels. And I keep underlining semi-legit organizations [e.g., AIPAC] and following the money. When you do that the picture gets grim. It gets really ugly."
"And then you involve a significant amount of money into this equation. Then things start getting a lot of overlap-- money laundering, and drugs and terrorist activities and their support networks converging in several points. That's what I'm trying to convey without being too specific. And this money travels. And you start trying to go to the root of it and it's getting into somebody's political campaign, and somebody's lobbying. And people don't want to be traced back to this money."
One can't be too cynical about the opportunism of bushco. They are determined to leave the government wrecked. I know they are textbook fascists, but they have anarchist tendencies. I guess thats some hothouse version of libertarianism. I doubt the pieces can be put back together again.
Hold on...
Since we're talking about torture here, I don't think it would be off-topic to mention that I just learned that "extraordinary rendition" started until Bill Clinton. I read that in a Roger Ebert review of a movie called Rendition. I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, and I wish that the public would get out of the mode of "my side is all good - your side is all bad". We're at a point where there will be cover-up no matter which party is in unless we investigate and clean-up.
Where was Black Water when you needed them?
sarcasm intended.
Dumbledore is gay?
Who's next, Oscar Wilde?
This has nothing to do with 9/11 and everything to do with the totalitarian takeover of our once great nation.
It has already come out that the warrant-less wiretaps were being pushed as soon as Bush was sworn in.
The 9/11 thing is a Red Herring. The shredding of our constitution is far more important. I'm as inclined to believe in some level of complicity by the US in 9/11 as the next stoner, but we need to catch up to right now. Stop spending so much time on 9/11, and start getting hip to our loss of liberty.
After reading Tom Tomorrow yesterday, I posted a blog on this same subject. Maybe its finally reaching critical mass.
John Amato @ 14:
You tellin' me to start Dancing With Myself?
naschkatze @ 15:
We'll need more information. Extreme rendition is only putting people into foreign jails, and with anyone else than booshco may be for practicality not torture.
Regardless of the time-line, the real issue hear is that an agent of our government (Land of the Free and Home of the Brave), threatened the lives and well-being of another person. That is so evil as to be caricature. I am ashamed and outraged that people, like this agent, are "servants" of the American people.
Ahh, so the threat of torture was not used to glean information but just to secure a conviction? What was I worried about?
Can it be anymore obvious at this point that the whole 9/11 thing was a fraud? How much freakin information do people need?
"Typically ... the general public does not read court decisions.."
But the American people are increasingly becoming aware...
and are developing a very low tolerence for bullshit.
And so are whistleblower U.S. Generals that recently revealed that
--> Bush gave 'marching orders' on aggressive interrogation at Guantanamo
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/General_claims_Bush_gave_marching_orders_1...
Many questions. Still waiting for Answers.
Every single candidate for president MUST be confronted...
Explain and confront the actions of criminal bush boy and daddy CIA coverup specialist - and cheney against Valerie Plame.
And then have them Explain how they would confront the corruption that is deep inside the CIA
And then have them Explain how they would confront the corruption that is deep inside the FBI
http://www.nswbc.org/Press%20Releases/PressRelease-March5-07.htm
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20071014221652399
The American people all around the country are not stupid.. They know.
And Just exactly why are these people running for president?
Do they really want to help our country ... or...
Rudy Giuliani (R) - GOVERNMENT CRIME COVERUP SPECIALIST
Fred Thompson (R) - GOVERNMENT CRIME COVERUP SPECIALIST
Duncan Hunter (R) - GOVERNMENT CRIME COVERUP SPECIALIST
Mitt Romney (R) - GOVERNMENT CRIME COVERUP SPECIALIST
John McCain (R) - GOVERNMENT CRIME COVERUP SPECIALIST
Mike Huckabee (R) - GOVERNMENT CRIME COVERUP SPECIALIST
The American people are not idiots. They know bullshit when they see it.
Here's an old time Gospel song for boosh:
Audio only
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOk1jdIqVX0
It never fails and niether does the manipulated press in not doing their jobs. They didn't when we went to war against Iraq, they didn't when Senator Dodd said he would first place a hold on the new FISA bill and they obviously didn't when Mr. Higazy was arrested. Then the reason for the court redacting this information became obvious. Sickening to say the least. But that's what happens when a socisty is put to sleep with a constant barage of garbge about everything from Britteny Spears to a Harry Potter character being gay. What horseshit. Wake up people and get your government back before it's too late!
I think its important to mention that the BushCo's interpretation of torture under the geneva conventions (about stateless and un-uniformed persons) would have permitted the Nazi persecution of the Jews.
And for those who seem surprised that we do torture (even though this case is rendition more than US sponsored torture), take a look at the US's history in Latin America. Then tell me how we've been the shining beacon of liberty. We've always been on the side of money. 9/11, war on terror, and the war on drugs is just us trying to get more money whether its from oil, bananas or coke.
naschkatze @ 13:
Sorry, the point is that extraordinary rendition is wrong, and not that 'Bill Clinton did it, too!' or alleged zero-sum arguments about the merits of Republican vs. Democrat.
ysbaddaden @ 15:
Try any member of the Republican party. Bohemian Grovers
AND no doubt, card carrying members of NAMBLA.
You know our founders guaranteed the freedom of the press just for this sort of case. If this continues to go unreported in the MSM then I'm going to have to start sliding towards believing in conspiracy theories.
Right now blogs, (like this one) far and away represent the press our founders had in mind rather than the media conglomerates who decide whats news as their news directors consult with their accountants, lawyers and marketing departments. I find it hard to root for 'freedom of the press' cases in court. Put those MSM reporters in jail, they're all tools and they haven't represented the people for decades.
Ok, don't flame me, but did they actually do anything to him? More that tell him that his family would be in trouble if he didn't confess? i didn't see anything in the article other than coercion.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think what happened is right, but coercion is very different from torture.
See my post above. This was threat of rendition rather than direct US torture. . . which of course we do and have done since Manifest Destiny, if not since the founding of this country.
Fanon-
Coercion by threat of torture is a hair's breadth away from actually torturing.
Both are completely unacceptable, to put it mildly.
t4toby @ 16:
I disagree. 9/11 is used as a pretext for government's grasping for executive power. Before "war on terror" it was the "war on drugs" and "war on communism." It is always something with government. The reason that these fig leafs are always framed as a "war" is because this sort of rhetoric is highly effective in engaging the lower repto-mammalian brain functions of the masses and causing the suspension of their critical thinking facilities, which paves the way for "necessary" extraordinary measures that would not normally be considered reasonable.
Without exposing the underlying foundational myths that are used as an excuse for power grabs, they retain their potency.
Chris @ 21:
They will never change their mind short of confessions from Bushco. The real question is why is the media supporting the 30% of imbeciles? Why am I watching car commercials about hicks, tv news that talks about supporting the the troops and 9/11 more than solving the problems we face in reality, a rise of Christian discussions in the news... It's ridiculous. If one didn't know better it looks like state sponsored media.
Thanks Frank 12 for your clarification. It's pretty dangerous to follow the money... and it does lead to people in high places... or is that more likely high people in places? We all know the reigning emporer has no clothes and the syncophants who surround the emporer are avaricious, lying, greedy ba$tards at best.
Fanon @ 28:
I would agree, if Higazy was Canadian but, he's Egyptian. The reality of the situation is that Higazy understands the threat to his family could be all too real. The FBI agent knew this too.
t4toby @ 16:
Well said and I agree wholeheartedly!! 9/11 was a red herring and it's horrific so many people were killed and affected by this travesty.
right on! @ 33:
Have you ever noticed that these 9/11 topics attract the booger-eating trolls like flies to shit? After years of dealing with them, they get comically easy to spot. They are the ones who always want to avoid dealing with the facts and try and steer the discussion in a different direction. Realizing the extraordinary lengths that are being undertaken to try and control the 9/11 memes is one of the things that convinced me that the whole thing stinks.
Just look at what the booger-eating trolls are trying to convince people of in this thread. That the treasonous actions of public servants isn't important? lol. Absurd.
I wish the 9/11 Truth movement would transform into the Defend the Constitution Movement.
You have this group of passionate, intelligent, tech-savvy people who could help make things right. Why don't they use those research skills digging up dirt on candidates that are not progressive? If they were on the Abramoff case, I'll bet there would be more convictions at this point.
JFK was certainly not killed with one bullet from a second class gunman at an impossible angle. It has been almost 50 years. How far have we gotten with that 'Truth' movement?
If we had kept our eye on the ball (the fledgling neocons) instead of being distracted by the event, we might not be in such a bad place now.
So I'll admit it: 9/11 was a massive conspiracy. Get over it and help us do something useful.
Ahh yes.
[Deleted]
jtmonty46 @ 34:
Just to play devil's advocate. If I say to you that we have all of this circumstantial evidence that someone is a pedophile. They say they are innocent. I say confess, or I will put you into general population and make sure they are aware that you are a pedophile. If you confess, I will put you in protected custody.
Same difference, right? I know if I put you into gen pop and let everyone know why you are there you will get the sh## kicked out of you. Threat of torture, right?
I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it happens. I'm saying it doesn't mean the entire system is corrupt. You might have an overzealous cop/FBI agent.
To broadbrush it that this is accepted practice and "they are all" doing it I think is a disservice to the guys who are out there showing due dilligence and following protocol and procedure.
I don't know. I think people get so carried away when there is one case we are looking at and go AHHHH it happens ALL the time. It's a little bit hysterical
Or, right on, said a different way:
If the cover-up is so massive, why not go after its architects through the 'back door'? Find out what we can prove on them, and get them locked up.
If 'they' have the resources to dispatch "booger-eating trolls" any time a comment thread mentions 9/11, 'they' have virtually unlimited resources at their disposal. Find another way to get them. they are too heavily armored in the front.
Think Achilles Heel.
and by hysterical I didn't mean funny, I meant hysteria...
Fanon @ 37:
Agreed.
@41
Except that the agent in question was absolved of all wrongdoing, which amounts to an institutional thumbs-up for such activity, casting a pall on all FBI agents.
What's to stop them from doing it again?
Bu-bu-but... WE don't torture... Dubya said so....Yea..riiight..
I could rant on and on about this... but I'm not a gonna... Nope, not this time... The sewage is leaking out all on it's own with more and more people noticing.....JD
t4toby @ 38:
Larry Craig is announcing his intentions to as we speak.
John Ashcroft might be the achilas heal, he knows all about the murder of Paul Wellstone, Senator USA. He was the only person that could have ordered an investigation, instead he called the downing of the Sen aircraft was due to icing on the wings, Ha that perticular plane had deicing capibilities. Oh by the way Paul Wellstone knew 911 was an inside jop and was going to speak out.
t4toby @ 41:
See, that's just what I'm talking about, though, "them". You mean what's to stop "him" from doing it again? I don't know. I also didn't see where he was absolved of all wrong doing. Admittedly, I read the article but did not follow the link to read the whole opinion from the justices. He couldn't have been absolved of all wrong doing if this guy won his lawsuit, could he? He admitted coercing the confession, didn't he?
Fanon @ 37:
I think this is way different. How many cases of "people beating up pedophiles" do you know about? And getting "beat up" is not the same as torture of you, your family, your parents. your cousins, and anyone else who cares to affiliate themselves with you. And with a thousand years of torture science behind it? Anyone who beats up that pedophile will still get put into jail. There is NO recourse in the case of rendition to many of these theocratic countries. . .Threats are one thing. We threaten people by saying we'll put them in jail and lock em up. Thats a real threat. But torture is something different. Don't muddy the line. This case is about rendition. But US torture is something that the rest of the world knows about and will never forgive. Ask the people of Chile or Argentina or Nicaragua. Thats what the US stands for by the rest of the world's standards. Supporting fascists and murderers. Thats the American (govt) way. And we're all to blame for keeping a blind eye to it all.
Fanon @ 37:
SK @ 46:
I'm truly not trying to blur the line. I'm simply trying to point out that just because this one case has come to light that this is the common practice. Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't . I'm withholding judgement. One case does not a common practice make.
Also, ever heard of Megan's Law?? That is exactly what that does. . .requires "sexual predators" all across the country to identify themselves to the community. You don't see massive murders all across the country every day, do you?? Its a lot different than the threat of actual torture, which happens on a daily basis.
Also, we can't find out about rendition cases cause they're a matter of "national security". Its been stated that it is the official stance of the US. We only have a handful of cases (like the few Canadians, Spaniards, and Italians who've been rendered to other countries) that we even know about this practice. When everything is sealed, the few leaks are all we know about the standard practices sanctioned by the govt.
Megan's law and identifying yourself to the community is a lot different than being locked up in Joliet or Cook County as an identified pedophile or child murderer. It's the one kind of con even a con can't stand.
SK @ 50:
Again, this doesn't suffice as 'proof' that it is standard practice. I am certainly not, in any way, saying that rendition is correct behavior. I'm just saying to condemn everyone with this broad brush of "this is our standard practice" without proof is impetuous.
Post a YouTube video question about this for the Republican debate....
Had this agent acted in total isolation the case for a one off could be made. However these guys go to work everyday in a large organization. The discovery and investigation of the radio was beyond the scope of one individuals notes. Where two or more people plan or intend to commit a crime, conspiracy charges are warranted. To threaten an individual or his family abroad sounds like a crime to me.
I don't know that you can make a criminal case. I think you can claim that he coerced a confession from a suspect. Which he admitted. Which they sued for and won.
The agent will be awarded the Medal of Freedom at a photo op during which Dumya will draw circles in the cowshit with the toe of his $10k cowboy boots and says "Yer doin' a heckuva job, Templeton."
Templeton will then be permitted to clean the boots - off camera.
Funny, I have a lower back problem. One of the things that exacerbate the problem are very tight hamstrings. I have a therapist who stretches them for me....I lay on my back, knee straight and they push the leg toward my shoulder with a fair amount of force. it helps, but it hurts like hell. A week of 18 hour sessions using a bit more force and I'd confess to anything.
We are not at trial. Common sense dictates that no one agent would command and control the rendition process, nor the communications with Egyptian security forces.
This isn't a direct case of torture. In my opinion though, it perfectly illustrates why torture will never be a reliable method for gathering information. If family is truly threatened, most people are willing to sacrifice themselves to keep those they love safe. This includes incriminating themselves even when they're innocent. Condoning torture and methods closely related to torture that blur our Bill of Rights might create some positive results, but they're much more certain to create false-positives like this case. Then we're stuck with intelligence that is basically useless and our best agents wasting their time and training. There are better ways to do this and we should be demanding our government understand this.
Stasi fun for the whole family. "Jack Bauer bends the rules, why can't we"-neocons
Fanon @ 39:
The frigging POINT is that coercion of this type is a criminal act under American law!!!!!! And THAT the government is attempting to cover it up! Damn but some people really can't see the forest for the trees.
Terrible @ 63:
No, it's not a criminal act. It's coercion and it's sloppy police work and will invalidate your confession, but it"s not against the law.
Fanon @ 64:
I did think that just after hitting submit. I should have said illegal not criminal. Not only would it invalidate a confession but any testimony gotten through the use of coercion would be inadmissable, ie: not legally permissable. But as I said the important thing is that the central issue is that it was a coerced confession and the governemnt is trying to hide that fact. That's what the post IS about. Trying to cloud the issue isn't going to change the fact that Agent Templeton should be getting a job as a greeter at Walmart. Agent Templetons name sounds familar too, has he been involved in other activities that aren't allowed in this country?
Ah, The shining beacon of
freedomdepravity to the world.Terrible @ 65:
Right, ok, I agree that it violated his 5th ammendment rights. However, I fail to see how the government tried to cover it up. Really, I took some time to search this out in other places. They redacted the part of the testimony with specifics on what the agent said (you family will be scrutinized, etc) and replaced it with the agent did not deny the coercion.
Templeton lost 2 appeals for immunity and there was a 44 page decision that agreed he violated the applicants 5th ammendment rights. Where is the cover up? If I am missing something, tell me what.
While justice may have ultimately been served in this case, it is the ongoing effort by the WH Justice department to "cleanse" its egregious acts of coersion I find disturbing. The public has a right to know the truth concerning these methods of extracting "evidence."
Shadowgm @ 25:
My point is hardly that "Bill Clinton did it too", nor do I excuse the Republicans on that basis. I think it's very obvious that I think extraordinary rendition is wrong, and my point is
( get your head out of your ass) that under the current system and the current personnel of both parties, nothing will be done.
At least not under Mr. Clinton's wife.
When they're finished with the Arabs, I suppose that we're next.
... finally grew some cujones chris, thank u.
Why does the FBI's website and "WANTED" poster for Osama Bin Laden mention nothing about 9/11?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
webs4keeps @ 73:
Probably because there's no proof he had a hand in it. He only celebrated the occurrence and commended the doers.
miss_kitty @ 74:
One would think the government attacked Afghanistan because they had solid proof the Taliban, and specifically Bin Laden, were behind the attacks.
I guess the evidence on that is also "classified" like the evidence against the many suspects extraordinarily rendered since 2001.
Thanks for bringing more attention to this one.
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