Jim Webb's letter to Bush on Iran!
Jim Webb's been one of the most outspoken members of Congress about the warmongering efforts of the Bush/Cheney administration to attack Iran. 29 others signed his letter that's addressed to President Bush. Here's the pdf to see the original.
Along with 29 co-signers, Senator Jim Webb of Virginia sent a letter to the White House today warning the President not to take offensive military action against Iran without the express consent of Congress. Designed to clarify any ambiguity as a result of a recent Senate amendment urging designation of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization, the Senators also expressed concern that the administration’s increasingly provocative rhetoric has undermined diplomatic efforts with Iran.
He's leading on this and I'm thrilled. Biden and Obama finally jump in and respond on this. I really don't see this as a rift. The more people that start talking about this the better. Obama is now coming out with his own legislation.
I don't care what any campaign says about "political motives" as long as they all line up against an attack on Iran---then I'm behind it.
When the rich make war, it's the poor who die.
Beagle @ 1:
Only when the rich don't give a damn about the poor i.e. Bush & co.
I dare say they are going in just after christmas ......
I honestly don't see what Biden and Obama's problem with signing the thing is. Because he's coming up with his own legislation doesn't preclude him from signing it and signing it wouldn't affect his ability to come up with legislation.
I can't wait to hear Bush's reaction to these latest efforts to rein him in.
Both my senators signed the letter. Also Feinstein. Clinton signed on, too - trying to make up for her vote on K-L?
Pfft.. another "slap on the wrist" warning from the spineless Democrats.
All well and good but how is Webb - a junior senator - able to push through so many bills while senior senators are doing nothing more than signing on? And how come most of the other senators (I'm looking at you Tester, Brown, Casey, and Talent - Whitehouse gets a pass as he helped some this week) are not coming forward with more bills like this? I mean thats why we elected them into power i thought...
Uh, does George Bush recognize that Congress has ANY authority to limit his actions against Iran?
Zenrage @ 7:
True that!
JasonS @ 9:
Uh, no. UNFORTUNATELY.
Does congress recognize that they have authority to limit Bush's actions against Iran?
This isnt enough.
The Kurds are acting in a provocative manner and could extend the conflict into S.E. Europe. In addition, much of the conflict with Iran involves Iranian responses to Kurdish bellicosity. On one hand, the kurds are considered to be a part of Iraq - hence responses by Iran against the Kurds are seen as attacks on Iraq. On the other hand provocations by the Kurds in Iran and Turkey - where they are actively attempting to annex territory - are seen as Kurdish not Iraqi.
This will also widen the war if not clarified. This would normally be the function of the secretary of state - however at the moment, they US has no secretary of state.
Piren @ 12:
Sorry, but how naive.
They are all lawyers ... they understand more than you know. Including that no authorization will exceed two years - by the constitution. FISA law is subordinate to the constitutional requirement of reasonable cause and warrants - FISA is unconstitutional.
And more. You are witnessing an indonesian shadow play and you are watching the shadows not the puppets.
JerryM @ 3:
Maybe even before. They'll claim Iran is part of the "War on Chrristmas". "It has come to our attention that in Eye-ran they don't even wish each other a Merry Christmas, we must put a stop to this..."
Screw Obama. The more I see of him, the less I like him. Needs an attitude adjustment in my opinion. I don't see him as Presidential material.
Talk about Hillary being republican-lite, Obama's way more conservative and pandering than Hil.
kaT @ 16:
You are right I think. His wife apparently is a big time free trader and he is in several corporations pockets, including ADM (Ethanol and future replacement for EXXon) from his stint in Illinois.
I don't think the Attack on Iran is so much Oil motivated anymore.
A lot of the oil companies are starting to invest in water infrastructure -- reading the tea leaves I suppose.
China and Russia have firmly lined up as allies of Iran in this matter... so, how crazy would you have to be, when you are borrowing money and electronics from one of these two contenders to start a fight right now?
The attack on Iran isn't about security -- not with A Q Khan under house arrest in Pakistan for that pesky misdemeanor of selling nuclear secrets around the globe. Pakistan is on shaky ground -- a Muslim country lead by a leader who took power in a military coup, who is allied with the US that is just slightly more popular than herpes. So, the Weapons exporters aren't too worried about escalation in the world, if we let Pakistan run amuck.
No, I think more and more it's always about business. It's about jobs. The US doesn't manufacture anymore and Intellectual Ownership is a tough sell to the worlds largest economy (China), and they can at any time say; "No." Unless you hold a gun to someone's head -- you can't make them pay you for your patents. So the US has too exports; Greed an Weapons. Being that Hollywood and Record producers are mostly foreign owned now, I don't think we hold the greed message. And Dubai is buying up our weapons manufacturing. OK, so then perhaps we have our military as an export? I'm guessing, with an economic collapse looming, and the Fed doing everything right now to bail out Banksters for making loans they never should have... military recruitment might really spike. There are only so many burger flipping jobs to go around (OK, Burger "Assembly" jobs which is listed under engineering).
I don't know what is worse .... the attack on Iran or the eternal preparation for attacks on Iran. Is this more distraction for something else? Who knows? But the attack (or war footing) on Iran will be to support our economy -- don't feel too bad if we sell weapons to countries that will be shooting at us (note that Bush just stopped selling weapons to Iran a few months ago -- yeah, that's treating it like threat).
It's merely important to keep ratcheting up the threats so that people won't notice the borders closing. Or the drought. Or that the jobs aren't as good as the used to be.
WE have these worries about what Bush might do in the future -- what will it be like when it actually happens? It's getting hard to do much else -- I don't know whether to prepare for a dust bowl in Georgia, poverty, buy lots of seeds, purchase iodine for fallout, get night vision goggles, rain barrels, insulation, or just sell my house and leave. If I had any extra money or time -- I might prepare.
The suckage in this Bush America just keeps adding up. I'm sick of this crap.
And be careful if you protest for the guys paid to throw rocks -- OK?
John @ 15:
Knowing the way Bush Co operates they'll announce we've attacked Iran on Christmas Morning. These guys will leave no stone unturned when it comes to forcing misery down peoples throats.
"STOP! or I'll say STOP! again!"
:lol:
After they sign the Lieberman 'RUMF' against Iran,
then declare the Iranian Army's special guard a terrrrist organization,
they are warning preznot botch that he gotta ass for permishun bomb Iran.
That's fucking rich.
I'll be filtering these asshole dems out in my next primary.
kaT @ 16:
I've gotten the feeling for some time that Hillary and Obama -- and of course all the Republicans, are really auditioning to the Corporations -- not the people.
VitriolAndAngst @ 21:
Fascism
I would be overjoyed if Senator Webb were to be named the VP running mate for the Dem party nominee. It would give the ticket a big boost on the issues for which people still prefer the Republicans.
Most importantly, Obama has two LIEberman advisors. That says all I need to know about him.
Kerry and Gore are absolute proof that you can never overestimate the idiocy of those advisors or the the depths to which their underhandedness will stoop.
Diane Feinstein and Schumer are going to vote FOR Mukasey
f*ck
Barry Halpern @ 23:
he's too strong a presence to be VP. I'd give him harry reid's job in a heartbeat.
I thought, under the US Constitution, the president must consult Congress before going to war.
"Along with 29 co-signers, Senator Jim Webb of Virginia sent a letter to the White House today warning the President not to take offensive military action against Iran without the express consent of Congress."
To me, it means 71 Sentors don't care about the US Constitution. Don't get me wrong, I applaud Senator Webb's effort greaty, it's just sad about the other 71 scoundrels.
Fascist States of America @ 25:
was their any doubt? war profiteer and corporatist.
Beagle @ 1:
Here is an Kikuyu (Kenyan) proverb you might like: "When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers."
[I clip this stuff when I find it, good ones, in newspapers.]
After Congress went along with the "declaring Iran's military as a terrorist organization" -- I think they just effectively declared war on Iran. How can you not call a military your enemy if you are not at war with them? And under the Patriot Act -- I think that designation makes him able to do whatever he wants because now he is fighting terror.
See how these "redefining" tricks work? As long as there are people in power who go along with signing statements, or administrative advisements -- what is the point of Congress or the Senate? Is everyone this dumb that they don't know what they are playing with, or are they scared enough to go along because they really do know what they are dealing with?
There is still a German subpoena out for Prescott Bush by the way, for supporting the death camps in Germany. There is also one for Rumsfeld on torture -- and he was almost served in France this past week and he had to sneak out of the country or be forced to testify. When you have people with no conscience, being faced with losing everything -- the stakes become greater. These guys are in serious trouble if we get a "good" Democrat in the White House. So, EVERYTHING in the next year is about either ensuring a Republican or Hillary (maybe Obama) becomes president, fixing the election, staving off a collapse of the market, and failing that, taking control of the government where we don't have an election.
There is no external threat, or issue of gay marriage, or abortion or any of the other silly things they like to distract us with. Forget Obama or whether someone in a cave can get another case of box cutters.
We need to worry about survival, and getting control of the elections, and perhaps making enough money to deal with the coming scarcity. We need to start creating collectives to support each other. Anyone game? Or are we going to be happy just saying "I told you so" yet stuck in the same mess as everyone else?
Zenrage @ 7:
Any action is better than NO action.
Jim Webb's son still in the sandbox? At least Webb knows the dangers inherent in a strike on Iran when you have a Shia-led government in Baghdad that cares little for the United States of America and often actively works to kill U.S. soldiers.
This is not a geo-political move that could possibly make any sense whatsever, and it invites a deadly retribution and more turmoil, which leads me to believe only one thing: Thats the plan.
Is it to fully break the military and/or tie it up in the M.E. for the next decade, making Blackwater USA the "first responder" in the event of a "terrorist" attack?
We'll see what Democrats are really made of when the Shock Doctine progresses to the next step. The neoconservatives are surely aware of worst case scenarios, which is why I continually wonder why they pursue them.
Dear Sen. Webb:
It's called a declaration of war. That's what he needs. You folks can give him one, or turn him down.
Read your Constitution. It's kinda right there, dude.
Fascist States of America @ 25:
make it known to these to lick-spittle, lap-dops that they are voting for torture.
chuck schumer and diane feinstein: the next waterboarding is going to be done in your honor.
i don't think they care that their weakness makes it more likely that america will continue to torture.
i am so fucking pissed i could puke...
And while people like Biden, Kucinich, and Edwards give me real hope when I hear of them describing the current state and their plans for the future state of fighting neconservative fascism, I cannot understand why Sen. Clinton is so non committal on saying we shouldnt even consider attacking Iran.
She too is kowtowing to the plan to bomb Iran
BaScOmBe @ 28:
I've barely followed this "nomination" because I've felt all along, there would be a show of putting up a stink (waterboarding question), and then everyone would approve Mukasey. The American public would carry on shopping, and all would be just fine with the world (as long as you didn't look). That's the last 6.5 years in a nutshell.
anon @ 14:
That was snark. In answer to Jason@9. Shoulda said so.
Prosecuting Members of Congress For War Crimes: Your State AG can work this issue. Contact them.
Samson- @ 34:
Members of Congress, if they refuse to end this illegal war against Iran, or they rubber stamp someone who apparently wants to keep war crimes "on the table", have a problem: these Members of Cognress can be indicted.
Contact your State AG to have these Members of Congress indicted for failing to defend the Constitution. Your State AG has the power and duty to enforce the Constitution against domestic enemies in the DoJ office, Congress, and White House. Let's indict the Members of Congress. Contact your State AG if the Congress refuses to end illegal warfare against Iran.
Only 29 signatures?!! WTF!!!
IdiotShrub @ 39:
I was confused by this too.
Then I realized Bush could be threatening to nominate a worse guy.
Like Rove.
ooooohhhhhh, a letter! I bet ole George is just wetting himself right about now!
We're praising Webb and Clinton for a letter? How about a filibuster? How about following Russ Feingold and using 'the power of the purse'?
We're praising a letter. It sounds like praising your baseball team for preventing a no-hitter in its defeat.
Only 29 members.
So, the other 71 don't give a damn or they support the presidents position that he can take unilateral action.
So much for a democratic majority. We need to find out which democrats did not sign and put some spine into their backs.
At least he tried.
Anyone else notice that all five freshmen Senators signed the letter?
ok, so after someone reads the letter to bush, he will almost immediately ignore it. the only thing that maight, and i say might, stop bush from doing anything he attempts is binding legislation followed by oversight. bush co. has proven time and again that they do not give a rats ass about what we the american people think or want, let alone some lame ass non binding resolutions or letters from congress/senate. they have done exactly what they wanted since 2000, why for goodness sake would that change now. what we have here is the weakest president in our lifetime running over our elected representation making them look weaker still. when do we the citizens have our "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore" moment?
Obama wouldn't sign the letter.
Thanks, O.
Don't you understand that the Military Industrial Complex IS our Government? Don't you understand that our economy is War based? The war with Iran will happen and an amendment from Webb will do NOTHING to stop it. Bush wipes his ass with the Constitution. What do you think he'll do with Webb's letter??!!
The only way to change the course of the country is to IMPEACH every neo-con and drive them out of government. Period. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
My grandpa once said, the people get the leaders they deserve. Only other person who I have heard say this was...Obama. My grip w/everyone is that (bc I'm a student in a 2 key states) I've talked to a lot of canidates, I go to a lot of events, and I read (way to much I need to study more). I digress. Obama, said last month that he would not bomb Iran, no he did, very publicly, gave a whole little speil about the middle east (Pakistan was another story). So yea gripe about the Pakistan thing, not the Iran thing. I know it might seem strange for some, but there are people who believe in procedure, and formulism (they are usually called lawyers); personality plays into polictics as well.
The night Obama stated, my grandpa's favorite saying, he said that there were 4 groups of people resoponsible for Iraq. Media, Congress, Admin, and... the people! Now don't go saying, oh we have no power, oh they took the elections (I know I was there).
In the end the people do have power, we snark on some Repubs for their chicken hawk stuff, but it is a symptom of the greater culture at large. A lot of faults that are in those life long Repubs are in the life long Dems (or progressives). I am young, but I do realize that a country needs moderation, I believe we are out of balance, I am not w/out hope, as of yet. I am jaded though, a lot of people are acting before thinking. A lot of people are not thinking criticaly at the situation, and most of all a lot of people are not first examining ourselves. Just as the neo-cons have altenative history, and a vision for their utopia, do do the progressives. In the end, we are all complecated, and yet there are some times when complecated beings can act w/one purpose and one mind to accomplish fearfuly amazing tasks.
To that end, if you wonder who I might vote for I will retort, does it even matter? Will my vote count this time around (it did not last time). I have met Hillary, Obama, and Kuchinich, and I do not believe there is a perfect cannidate (there never has been one and there never will be one).
Eric in Ottawa @ 5:
He'll claim that a combat veteran like Webb who also has a son in Iraq should not be challenging combat dodging chickenhawks like self described "War Preznit" and 5-Vietnam-Deferrments-Dick on matters of war and national defense. Karl Rove 101: Attack your opponents strength and swiftboat em like hell. That's what the low life sack of shit has in mind.
If waterboarding is not torture, why not allow the police to us it to interrogate suspects? Isn't it worth it to get the information necessary to solve murders, stop serial killers, and round up pedophiles? Or is it only torture when used on white people?
err... "why not allow the police to USE (not us) it ..."
I like Webb.
I think he's the kind of a guy who would have a sign on his front fence (and his concept of morality, if he could),
that said:
'If you have the balls to trespass,
I have the dogs to tear them off'
In other words, definitely NOT a Cojones-Challenged fellow.
Hmmm. Another empty, symbolic threat by the people the people put in power to exercise a little real power as a legislative branch of government.
It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission... and with these pussies in the Congress you don't even have to ask for forgiveness!
Ooooh, Webb sent a letter to the White House. I bet that really scared Bush when he found someone to read it to him. Wake up! Bush doesn't give a sh*t what Congress thinks and Webb is just performing a formality.
Jim Webb for Vice-President.
kudos to Webb for standing up to the junta water carriers. His speeches are a must see on C Span
Senator Jim Webb of Virginia sent a letter to the White House today warning the President not to take offensive military action against Iran without the express consent of Congress.
WOW.........he sent a letter! That's great.
Everyone knows that Congress will give the president whatever he asks for, so what's the point?
Sending a letter or creating non-binding resolutions; the president wipes his ass with this stuff.
SO A LETTER TO A PRESIDENT WHO THROWS TANTRUMS WHEN THINGS DON'Y GO HIS WAY I CAN HEAR THE RIPPING SOUNDS. NOTHING AGAINST SENATOR WEBB BUT WE NEED MORE THAN A LETTER. aND AGAIN WHY ALL THE CRITICISM ON OBAMA BIDEN DIDN'T SIGN EITHER AND HE IS RUNNIG FOR PRESIDENT TOO. NOT TO MENTION ALL THE OTHERS WHO DID NOT SIGN. AS FOR THE OTHER POLITICIANS CRITICISING OBAMA LETS SEE HOW MANY SIGN HIS LEGISLATION
I like Webb too.
But what does Bush care?
He does whatever.
You could vote till the cows come home to stop him.
Hey military. Coup the SOB.
ms b @ 58:
Why are you writing with Caps Lock? Don't you see that it is so annoying and that no one will want to read your tantrum?
kaT @ 16:
Agreed. I was moving away from Obama anyway but once he started parading around with the Reverand Homophobe that did it for me. Blacks who discriminate, or who parade around with blacks who discriminate, I have even less respect for than I do the white bigots for having faced discrimination themselves black people should know first hand how it feels. Obama can take his bags to the curb as far as I'm concerned.
Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has come to the point where we have to get excited because 29 senators signed a stern letter and mailed it to gw. How completely fucking pathetic. The democrat party is a huge piece of shit. They are tearing the constitution up right in front of us. Will the dems ever stand up for america? Perhaps they are afraid gw is going to be mean to them or call them soft of terror? Maybe we should organize a "protest", something like marching on your local democrat office, rendering all the people inside to a foreign country, torturing them until they promise to protect americans, and leaving a few in "stress positions" until they are dead so the ones who survive never forget who they work for.
Congress is irrelevant to matters of war and peace. The decisions are made in the Pentagon.
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