first

OUCH!

This administration has been nothing but a catastrophy. May they all burn in hell. Especially Bush and Cheney.

Senior Active-Duty General Says Positive Things About Waterboarding; Will Media Demand Clarification?
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/11/top_onduty_gene.php

I'm just crossing my fingers that when I'm sent to Gitmo I'll be in a cell near Mr. Olbermann. What an honor that would be!

Bush is an idiot

Okay enough already.

The United States HAS BEEN TORTURING adversaries for years now through its various surrogates as well as the military and the CIA itself. Enough already with this pretension that it "only just begun recently."

The United States also has targeted those who oppose the government's stand on various issues. From Grant's arrest of John Mitchel for writing that he opposed the North in the Civil War after that war to the Red Scare to the blacklisting of antiwar activists in the 1960s, the United States of America has always been involved in limiting freedom.

I hate to tell ya all this but democracy as well as capitalism are mere illusions of reality. It sounds great on paper but does not exist in reality.

To say the United States has been given some kind of "moral superiority" over other nations and peoples, is preposterous on its face. To say, that the United States has never tortured or engaged in such practices until the Bush administration is also factually incorrect. The difference is only now the USA thinks it has some kind of "moral high ground" to legalize a very familiar practice its been utilizing for years now.

casper46 @ 10:

SplendidOne @ 8:

casper46 @ 6:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Keith "disappeared".

Hang around for the third Dubya term and you just might.

If it does come to that, me and most of the people that hang out here will be right along with him.

They'll have to catch me first.

casper46 @ 10:

SplendidOne @ 8:

casper46 @ 6:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Keith "disappeared".

Hang around for the third Dubya term and you just might.

If it does come to that, me and most of the people that hang out here will be right along with him.

LOL, maybe I should comment here too then... oh wait... I'm Canadian - that makes me safe doesn't it?

Let's have a little live, telecast demo of a waterboarding session.

Maybe we can have some senators volunteer and other avid supporters like Rush Limbaugh, and of course, the decider in Chief who says the U.S. doesn't torture.

Then we can have a poll and everyone can weigh in with their opinion. That should decide the issue once and for all.

Practical joke? Fraternity prank? or Torture?

Never mind DiFi. More like, Hear that, the whole freaking Democratic party.

Keith won't be disappeared anytime soon. There won't be any Impeachment coming either. Face it the system is rigged. Congress works for the highest bidder, period. What the people know, and how pissed they get matters little when everyone is just going to get up and go back to work tomorrow morning and go to the mall to buy more stuff tomorrow evening. Bush is a bad man, the Dems have no spine, GOPers are a cult, blah, blah, blah.

I tell you, reading and writing this stuff is almost like the modern Soma. Getting all pissed off and venting on blogs is becoming our drug of choice. As long as it takes about a billion dollars to run for President and we check that little box to give one dollar, politics is going to be ruled by the one percent who own big corporations. If you want Democracy, take the money out of the system; otherwise we're all just kidding ourselves.

I can't wait.

And for people out there who want to make sure Keith gets heard, there was an article today in the Portland Oregonian that should disturb people everywhere. It sure seems like an attempt to control the message, and make Keith Olbermann less visible and accessible. That is fitting with the consolidation of the Media (PBS Bill Moyers Journal) and controlling the message.

Accusation in original blog comment: "Made you into, if anybody had the guts to pursue it, a criminal."

Either the Congress enforces the law through impeachment; or prosecutors enforce the law through prosecutions. However, if the President blocks judicial review of the alleged war crimes, he's no different than Pakistan's President.

There is another way to "pursue" this criminal: Direct prosecutions of a sitting President, outside impeachment, outside Congress. The State AG's may prosecute a sitting President. Let's see it. No need to wait until the 2008 election.

jtmonty46 @ 24:

Mr. XXXX @ 11:

Okay enough already.

The United States HAS BEEN TORTURING adversaries for years now through its various surrogates as well as the military and the CIA itself. Enough already with this pretension that it "only just begun recently."

The United States also has targeted those who oppose the government's stand on various issues. From Grant's arrest of John Mitchel for writing that he opposed the North in the Civil War after that war to the Red Scare to the blacklisting of antiwar activists in the 1960s, the United States of America has always been involved in limiting freedom.

I hate to tell ya all this but democracy as well as capitalism are mere illusions of reality. It sounds great on paper but does not exist in reality.

To say the United States has been given some kind of "moral superiority" over other nations and peoples, is preposterous on its face. To say, that the United States has never tortured or engaged in such practices until the Bush administration is also factually incorrect. The difference is only now the USA thinks it has some kind of "moral high ground" to legalize a very familiar practice its been utilizing for years now.

Well, now that you have that off your chest, as Captain Picard would say "Suggestions?".

Here's a suggestion: Have the State AG's engage in direct prosecutions. Doesn't matter if the Congress or President refuse to impeach or block Federal Prosecutors. State AG's have the power to enforce the law. They've done it already in re FISA violations with direct action to enforce state privacy rights.

Made you into a liar, Mr. Bush.
Made you into, if anybody had the guts to pursue it, a criminal.

Hear that, DiFi?

Hear that, all Democrats?

Bill Maher: Can't the Democrats grow even one ball?
"Can they grow even one ball?" he asked, frustrated, of the Congressional majority. "I'm not asking for two, just one."
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Bill_Maher_Cant_Democrats_grow_even_1103.html

Librarian @ 19:

Never mind DiFi. More like, Hear that, the whole freaking Democratic party.

You have not been paying attention.

Is there a difference between an enabler and a perpetrator . . .

Torture, murder, have been in existence in our military, police stations, prisons for a long, long time, it is not new, only difference today than in times gone by is people no longer fear exposure, punishment, since those who the elite let these things happen too have been dehumanized, made into subhumans, deserving of all that happens too them, sure a public outcry occurs like when they video taped Rodney King being beaten, the guilty were found not guilty even though video showed them guilty, then the police sodomizing a inmate in jail in a major city recently in news, or one can go back too Vietnam, Mai Lai massacre, Lt. Calley got 3 years house arrest, pardoned by Nixon, from his life sentence, one can find horrors of torture, murder in our countries history, Abu Gharib prison horrified many but many like Bill Oreilly, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and the fox crew were in glee and seemed too be in orgasmic glee too make a point in trying too say it was merely some college like initiation..., makes one wonder what they do in their private life, wonder if they find sadism, torture mere fun.., not surprising two of the main characters of the Abu Gharib prison scandal were former US prison guards who had reputations of abusing inmates, little was noted on the 3 high ranking officials who were hired as contractors too set up the Iraqi prison system as former disgraced US state level prison administrators who allegedly were fired or forced too resign for allowing inmate abuse under their commands.., yes the water boarding is torture, but its not new, nor is it just something Bush and his chicken hawks are guilty of, it goes way back and the key too why the republicans fear no punishment, care not who knows they do it, is Nixon proved you can do anything, then have your co-conspirators pardon you..., we just saw a perfect example of the modern day Benedict Arnold [Scooter Libby] getting his pardon for committing treason against USA by exposing a CIA agent, and they have no shame, no fear, unfortunately no one has the gonads too bring them too justice, since even if you got a conviction they would merely get their co-conspirators too pardon them....

Stunning @ 27:

jtmonty46 @ 24:

Mr. XXXX @ 11:

Okay enough already.

The United States HAS BEEN TORTURING adversaries for years now through its various surrogates as well as the military and the CIA itself. Enough already with this pretension that it "only just begun recently."

The United States also has targeted those who oppose the government's stand on various issues. From Grant's arrest of John Mitchel for writing that he opposed the North in the Civil War after that war to the Red Scare to the blacklisting of antiwar activists in the 1960s, the United States of America has always been involved in limiting freedom.

I hate to tell ya all this but democracy as well as capitalism are mere illusions of reality. It sounds great on paper but does not exist in reality.

To say the United States has been given some kind of "moral superiority" over other nations and peoples, is preposterous on its face. To say, that the United States has never tortured or engaged in such practices until the Bush administration is also factually incorrect. The difference is only now the USA thinks it has some kind of "moral high ground" to legalize a very familiar practice its been utilizing for years now.

Well, now that you have that off your chest, as Captain Picard would say "Suggestions?".

Here's a suggestion: Have the State AG's engage in direct prosecutions. Doesn't matter if the Congress or President refuse to impeach or block Federal Prosecutors. State AG's have the power to enforce the law. They've done it already in re FISA violations with direct action to enforce state privacy rights.

Thanks for the creative thinking. It's nice to see something other than doom and gloom. Sometimes it seems that Eeyore is directing the threads around here.

Pooh: "Good morning, Eeyore!"
Eeyore: "What's so good about it."

(Holy crap, Star Trek and Winnie the Pooh in the same thread. I scare me.)

(disclaimer, i look up to KO, and enjoy his special comments immensely)

that said...

KO's first special comment gave me the chills.

since then, every subsequent commentary makes me realize that we are truly fucked.

from torture, to preemption, to presidential lies, to suspension of habeas corpus, to rendition, etc., etc., KO has preached an impassioned call to arms. yet, we sit on our couches, cheer KO on, and... nothing changes. this is not keith's fault (obviously), and it does not mean that there are thousands (millions?) of people actively involved in trying to hold people accountable and seeking justice... its just that nothing has changed. the dems--the supposed opposition party--can't be convinced to defend the constitution, the media refuses to do its part (KO and a few other notables aside) in its role as the fourth estate, and the majority of the american population sits around wondering what antics brittany's neh-neh will get into next....

i try to be positive. but hearing that KO is having another special commentary harkens me back to his first--when there was hope that if the dems could regain power then things would change, that if people spoke out things would change, that by exposing the crimes things would changed.

well, things have not changed. prepare for the operation iranian liberation.....

BoilThemInTheirOil @ 20:

Impressive to see how the Pakistanis are taking to the streets to protest the suspension of their Constitution, while Americans just keep watching Oprah and NFL games while their Constution is trampled. Olberman is a rare, defiant voice standing against the Bush Corporatocracy that is eating the American Constitution for breakfast.

Good point. Brings to mind the comment by Tony Benn, I believe, in Sicko, when he pointed out that in countries like France the government fears the people while in the U.S. the people fear the government and politicians like the Democrats grant this administration whatever they desire.

kudos to Keith for fighting against the Pinochetists

No....I don't believe DiFi is listening... IF she ever was listening, she stopped that bit a long time ago......Probably after she left her SF mayor gig.......JD

We -- yes, all of us -- are simply bitchers and moaners. Read these posts to see how many of the bitchers and moaners are consistently and steadily verbalizing (at a minimum) impeachment. What? You say none of them? . . . .

If only our democrat had just half the balls Olbermann has, then we could see our laws and constitution restored and the criminals put on trial and punished for their lies, corruption and criminal activities.
You know our democrats must of have join into Bush and his policies, or else they would be rejecting them instead of giving him more then he asked for.

Can you believe the stupidity of the answers that you receive from your senator, about your concerns of given to illegal spying power to Bush with his already illegal criminal spying activities. They are supporting and aiding the enemy in their illegal policies...

Here is the reply from our democratic senator in their supporting and passing extra spying powers to the already illegal criminal activities of spying on Americans...

Thank you for getting in touch with me to express your concerns about the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). I appreciate learning of your views about this important matter .

As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I am very aware that terrorists plan and intend to harm the United States and the American people. I hear about these threats every day - and I take them very seriously. Yet I agree with you - that even as our nation faces new threats, Constitutional prote ctions must be safeguarded.

The FISA Act was created in 1978 to regulate how electronic surveillance was conducted in the United States . This law needs to be updated to account for changes in communications technology over the last thirty years.

As you know , Congress passed a temporary revision of FISA. I had preferred an alternative written by Senators Rockefeller and Levin. That legislation did not have the votes to pass, so I supported a temporary bill that would improve intelligence collection, while enabling Congress to modernize FISA responsibly and comprehensively. Recently , I voted for bipartisan legislation passed by the Senate Intelligence Committee that fixes a number of pr oblems with the previous bill.

This new legislation strengthens national security while protecting civil liberties. The bill strengthens the role of the FISA Court by requiring greater judicial review. The bill also improves oversight and accountability of the entire FISA proces s. While the Bush Administration wanted full immunity for the telecommunications companies and anyone else who assisted the government after September 11, the Senate Intelligence Committee bill provides more narro w, focused immunity. As an added safeguard, the bill sunsets in six years to enable a full evaluation of the laws governing electronic surveillance .

I understand that you may still have concerns about some of the provisions of the FISA reform bill. Yet I feel it is essential that this law is updated to ensure that we prevent terrorist attacks against our country.

Thank you for getting in touch with me. Knowing your views will be helpful to me as the full Senate considers the FISA bill.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
United States Senator

P.S. If I can be of further assistance in the future,
please visit my website at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
or call my Washington D.C. office at xxxxxxxxxxxxx

BoilTheminTheiroil@20 - Right on! We're pathetic - at least the Pakistani's are taking to the streets, something we seem to have lost the balls to do.

Let's all go to club gitmo for some sun and surf, waterboarding is all the rage these days and instructors are on hand to assist you with the steep learning curve. Music is played 24/7 for your listening enjoyment. For the kids everyday is holloween, hoods and orange suits supplied free of charge of course, neck collars and leases are an optional choice for the daring, shall we say late night highjinks..after the kids are asleep.

HE FINALLY SAID IT!!! GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL ASS@#$%!

On another note....

This day. November 5th around 30,000 of your fellow citizens... of all stripes including progressives have come together to take the Republican party away from the NeoCons. We are approaching 3.5 million dollars since 12 AM last night....right now... we need everyones help. We are done with the partisanship from our side. Help us! This government. This country. Belongs to us all.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Impeach already!..........just get Cheney first.

srvgrd,

Then I guess you would have made a better point by listening to a good tune and not posting your comment.

Just watched Keith. What a brave smart AMERICAN. I am going to Union Sq tuesday
11-6-07 at noon for a rally for the constitution. To stop this run to facism. Please Join US if you live in NEW YORK CITY. Do it for Keith

srvgrd @ 62:

wesisbest @ 61:

srvgrd,

Then I guess you would have made a better point by listening to a good tune and not posting your comment.

OKay, that doesnt even make sense.

Hrrrrmmmm. Less weed, more logic. ;) I long for the day when all drugs are perfectly legal and OFTEN declined.

wesisbest @ 59:

Impeach already!..........just get Cheney first.

Why? So he can get a presidential pardon? That is one of the absolute rights of the president, according to the constitution.

Lately, I've been convinced that they are right to wait, and prosecute Cheney for a list of federal crimes THE VERY DAY he steps down. And we will have a Democratic president (hopefully Edwards) that may not pardon him.

The logic of this, and the long term better result for the country, makes me wonder if Kucinich just doesn't get it or doesn't care.... reminds me of Nader shooting himself in the foot.

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 65:

Lately, I've been convinced that they are right to wait, and prosecute Cheney for a list of federal crimes THE VERY DAY he steps down. And we will have a Democratic president (hopefully Edwards) that may not pardon him.

Do you honestly believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that this will ever even be considered, and is anything more than wishful thinking on your part?

Keith is a very brave American but what else is new about the Secret Societies in our Government and abuses on our own country men/ Bush and his Fahter and the Clinton all to slave lie and confuse the people for a new World order Government that control. We are becomeing a country of Sheeps we have not insentive to find out what is wrong becuse we do not want to see beyond our eyes the lies about our so call freedom. Is an illusion read and learn before is to late. We may find out more aobut the criminals that worn our government and this include Republican and Democrats. Find out about what they are planing for the USA
by the year 2012.

srvgrd @ 67:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 65:

Lately, I've been convinced that they are right to wait, and prosecute Cheney for a list of federal crimes THE VERY DAY he steps down. And we will have a Democratic president (hopefully Edwards) that may not pardon him.

Do you honestly believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that this will ever even be considered, and is anything more than wishful thinking on your part?

It would not be wise to do so today, he would get off easily. There will be lackeys of this admin going to jail sometime after their disservice to the nation is done.

srvgrd @ 67:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 65:

Lately, I've been convinced that they are right to wait, and prosecute Cheney for a list of federal crimes THE VERY DAY he steps down. And we will have a Democratic president (hopefully Edwards) that may not pardon him.

Do you honestly believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that this will ever even be considered, and is anything more than wishful thinking on your part?

Yes. Not only to I believe it will be considered, I think (again, depending on whether Hillary the appeaser or any GOPs are installed) it will be necessary for the country to redeem itself internationally. Not to mention with the rest of us.

Besides that is what public pressure is for. If we press hard enough, he will be prosecuted for the crimes we already know he has committed. Neither the president nor the vice president are above the law.

JerryM @ 74:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 73:

Neither the president nor the vice president are above the law.

Bwhahahahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa nice

took the words right out of my mouth, Jerry.

It must be nice to be so naive, swarm. I wish I could go back to that kind of thinking.

Another home run for K.Olbermann.

Yaaaaaaaaawn. Boring!

Another meaningless Olberbann screed. Get a new act Keith, you are starting to go to the well once too often.

MountainMan23 @ 76:

The video clip is up at Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

Thanks :)

Keith is only saying what everyone else already knows, sees and hears - all screaming into the wind with nobody to hear them. He is frankly a hero and a patriot in my eyes. Nobody else is brave enough to state the obvious.. The emperor has no clothes (as does the invisible co-emperor) and he has desperately been trying to cover his ass with all these 'terror' scares while he tramples the Constitution, the laws of this nation, the international laws, and every value and tradition of our country. It is so heartwarming to hear someone with the courage and conviction to finally call these lawbreakers on it. Make no mistake, they are lawbreakers - executive or not. They may not be impeached, but they justly deserve to be arrested the moment they leave office, charged, tried, and imprisoned.

srvgrd Says:

By all means, if you wish to stage some kind of coup, thinking that you have so many people at your side willing to do just the same, please feel free. [...] But if you’re not going to, please be quiet and leave the rest of us alone. You sound like Limbaugh, blasting people for not sharing your ideals while you do absolutely nothing but blow steam about those ideals.

Why would I want to support a coup? Quite the opposite. I love my country and am willing to defend it against any illegal takeover or assault.

But I notice that after only 2 posts (one of which giving my exact opinion and believe on the details of impeachment/prosecution of Dick Cheney), you demand I be silent. Interesting. Who "sound[s] like Limbaugh again"?

And lastly, I'd point out that you have no idea who I am other than what I say here, or what I do. By all means, if you do know me, then please share with me how you think I "do absolutely nothing but blow steam". Both my hands and my heart work to fix a wrong, online and in my community. Looking back over your "contributions" to this thread, you are afflicted with the disease you would try to label on others. No content whatsoever, just pathetic "snark", cynicism, and name-calling.

Rather than telling me to 'shut up' or 'cut my mic', why don't you rebut my argument logically, as would an adult. You can pretend to be an adult, if necessary.

JerryM @ 82:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 80:

JerryM @ 74:

swarmofkillermonkeys @ 73:

Bwhahahahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa nice

Ultimately they are accountable to you. That is how the government we set up. Instead of blaming others, the question really is will you fight for your government? I mean, really fight? Or let Dick and those like him have it?

Honestly, it has always been that way. Thats why the "founding fathers" knew it and talked of it often.

It must be nice to be so naive, swarm. I wish I could go back to that kind of thinking.

Oh, and by the way... I am by no means naive; I'm motherfucking true patriot. You man refer to me as such, if you wish, but not as ignorant or naive to the magnitude of this current challenge. I don't really have to tell you what I think of someone who would let their country slip away so easily just to sound "k00l" and cynical. "Lazy" is but one of the many four letter words that apply to such kneeling cowardice.

I'm not even american or live there and I'm doing what I can to support the people who can make a difference and are trying......

That's a lot more than the vast majority of the population there ......

If I were american I would so ashamed it would be hard to describe and I would be part of the revolution thanks.

Not to enable those spitefully unwilling to defend me (by defending this country as they are able against all enemies foreign and domestic), but I think "shame" is misleading. I am not ashamed to be American. I am upset that my fellow citizens are exploited, lied to, killed and manipulated for personal gain of those whom we all have hired to manage our national affairs while we manager our personal affairs. Many of my countrymen were mislead (though I protested before the campaign against Sadam for lack of evidence) -- anyone may be fooled once. I don't know that there is dreadful "shame" in that. But worse than being fooled is clinging to the belief that you are powerless to correct your mistake, or that someone else will do it for you. So even after Abu Ghraib, Bush was elected again. That, and the passivity that allowed it as I mentioned above, is the most embarrassing thing to us all.

I believe these often misquoted words of Thoreau to be fairly accurate:

The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.

This is equally true here, and now. To cling desperately to cynicism and the idea of some invisible hand of the divine righting wrongs and corrects government rather than it being a messy process requiring the blood and sweat of ordinary Americans. Real sacrifice, as real as that of a dying soldier.

Unfortunately, I've learned over the past few years that many of my international friends do not really appreciate the nature of the sacrifice, and numbers required to commit significant change. As you may have seen from Katrina, beneath the manicured media veneer in this country lies real poverty, real problems exist. As they do everywhere. Living in America isn't like life as portrayed on television for most of us, and quitting a job to participate more fully in citizen activism simply doesn't seem to be a choice for most Americans that have children and can already not afford health care (as other countries my have by default).

Most people I have met love this country. Yet they are desperately worried for its future, and see no personal role in creating a better future. So while "it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things", it is sometimes devilishly difficult to tell when that act of desperation is taking no action at all. The idea that this inaction may harm them and their children more than the inconveniences of blacklisting, reduced income, and even incarceration is not an easy one. It is smart to consider whether the sacrifice is worth it.

So again, please don't be fooled by your television. The vast majority are tired, discouraged, and feel helpless to change this problem. If these people can be reached, coaxed, engaged and see a role for themselves in bringing about change, no revolution will be necessary. It certainly isn't desired. But please do not assume that the "vast majority" of Americans are happy with the status quo... I assure you that simply is not so.

Prosecution of those involved in the crimes of this administration (unless they die of old age first) WILL happen, as the people will it. It is that simple. However, at this late date, impeachment is a farce, and not necessary. The vice president may be prosecuted now (see Aaron Burr) but that risks a presidential pardon IMMEDIATELY after he is charged, and the president himself may NOT be prosecuted while he is incumbent. So now I advocate focussing on other battles, while not loosing site of the war. So I say they are right to bide their time.

But not to worry, we won't forget.

Olby's Wig @ 79:

Yaaaaaaaaawn. Boring!

Another meaningless Olberbann screed. Get a new act Keith, you are starting to go to the well once too often.

We payed attention the first time you spoke. nothing there that made sense and nothing now!

We do need someone to bus tables though.

C'mon Olbys' wig! Stop phonin' it in. "Yaaaawwwwwnnnn! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..."