Hardball: Papering Over Immigration
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Download | play (h/t Heather)
In his latest installment of IOKIYAR, Chris Matthews chastises Hillary Clinton and the Democrats in general for their suggested solutions to dealing with immigration even though Craig Crawford points out that Giuliani's rhetoric doesn't differ all that much from Hillary Clinton's.
From C&Ler Heather's email:
In an amazing example of double speak here Chris Matthews slams the Democrats' stance on immigration while defending the Giuliani stance that drivers licenses should not be allowed but still thinks there should be an ID issued. What's the difference as an end result? Personally I'd like to know when we're going to end the practice of slave labor here which we're using as surely as we were in the lead up to the Civil War, and give these workers some rights and protections and put an end to the abuse of the companies which are hiring them to the detriment of the workers themselves and to American workers who have their wages driven down as well. [..] The entire framing of this debate by the media is ridiculous. As long as we're arguing about driver's licenses vs some other ID's, we're talking about meaningless semantics which solve nothing.
It's not only okay of you are a Republican, to Tweety, it's especially NOT okay if you are a Clinton.
As long as we’re arguing about driver’s licenses vs some other ID’s, we’re talking about meaningless semantics which solve nothing.
I certainly don't disagree that this whole debate is full of gobbledygook that won't solve anything, but I'll betcha I can point out the difference in some of these folks' minds about IDs and driver's licenses:
It has nothing do do with constructively solving the immigration problem, and everything to do with their attitude towards immigrants themselves. Give them driver's licenses? E-gads, no! That would give them the legal privilege to operate motor vehicles and become mobile around our great states! IDs? Hells yeah! Cuz then we know who they all are, and know not to hire them, or god forbid, sit near them at lunch.
Simple soultion to the immigration "problem":
Make any anti-immigration law retroactive. It should not just be limited to current Mexicans.
That way Lou Dobbs 86 year old grandmother would have to go back to Sicily immediately.
"Personally I’d like to know when we’re going to end the practice of slave labor"
Heather, Heather, Heather...
I'll get slammed for this, but: It ain't slave labor, ain't even close. Rhetoric like that makes it impossible to deal with such people in a serious manner. It's very much like the overuse of calling people Nazis.
Karen @ 2:
Make that ILLEGAL immigrants.
chris is now using a neutral color lip gloss to cover is ever so brown repug lips.
The anti-immigration issue and how it's posited is masking something else. The damn illegals everyone is bitching about have been here for years. They did not contribute to driving American wages down. Outsourcing did.
And as for the drivers license horseshit, if someone hits you and its their fault, you and your insurance company have to pay for it, driving your rates up. At least if someone is forced to get a driver's license and therefore insurance, if that illegal hits you an its his fault, it's not going to cost you a damn thing other than grief.
"As long as we’re arguing about driver’s licenses vs some other ID’s, we’re talking about meaningless semantics which solve nothing. "
You get the point. This could be the MISSION STATEMENT of all Rupert Murdoch's media productions. The PURPOSE of FOX, MSNBC, CNN, the WSJ, and all the Hearst and tribune Newspapers is to DISTRACT YOU and OMIT THE REAL NEWS.
The sooner the public figures that out, the better off we'll all be.
Democracy Now, Free Speech Radio News, and Blogs like this one and No Quarter are far, far better sources for actual news.
Republican politics always comes down to race. Race involves exploiting immigrants and people of color. The GOP base is the people who came down on the losing side of the Civil War. They hated that slavery was abolished. They hated the Civil Rights era wins for minorities. They hate Muslims, and invoke scripture as justification for the ethnic cleansing of Muslims through their mercenary organizations such as Blackwater.
So of course they want to bring back slavery. This is the South rising again, make no mistake about it. They can't call it "slavery", so they call it "guest worker". GUEST WORKER = SLAVE. What's so hard to understand about that?
We're talking about SLAVES. Like the SLAVES that built the US Embassy in Iraq, and the SLAVES that are building Dubai for the elite class as we speak.
If they don't have rights, they can't keep their passports, and wealthy patrons pay to transport them internationally and have them as a controlled workforce, then what are they? "Guests?" I don't think so, Bubba.
They are SLAVES. That is the semantically correct word that describes them to a tee.
It's about time we started using the actual correct terminology. It would help clarify things immensely.
hareli @ 7:
Both did.
And what makes you think that someone who broke the law to get here isn't going to break the law again and drive without a license and insurance?
Driver’s licenses or ID cards whats the Difference??? They both are forms of ID....It seems to me that the Republicans (Including Tweety) are simply playing with semantics in hopes that it may garner a few more pathetic votes....And Tweety is wrong in his statement that the Dems. are going to lose any election because of any issue in at least the next 5 election cycles....It will take at least 5 election cycles for the GOP to develop a language based upon any Democrat failures that may occur before the GOP will have any prime voter support....
"Illegals" can land at the airport, rent a car with their home country license and drive around. So why not cars they purchase here?
What's with Matthews all ready calling the election. Hello Matthews your job is to help us become informed with specifics on the issues and the candidates not tell us who you are putting your money on.
By the way Matthews what do you have against John Edwards? You have barely reported anything about Edwards.
Edwards ripped it up on George Stephanapolous last Sunday calling our government "corrupt and broken". Edwards have called the neo-cons out on the carpet. Have you ever heard Hillary "if only I knew then what I know now" Clinton challenge the neo-cons? Hell no because a chunk of change for her campaign comes from these folks.
Edwards is stepping up to the plate.
Check out his interview last Sunday
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3818010
Edwards called Hillary out on her yes on the Kyl Lieberman amendment.
After they pass the Shuler immigration bill, sanctuary cities and drivers licences will be history.
They already started cracking down and it is working.
The economy is crashing with peak oil and it will be the #1 issue.
This post is not up to C&L standards... I am a legal immigrant (trying to be.. at least, it will take another 5 years to get naturalized).. and what you are arguing is to let the illegal people who pay no taxes, get naturalized before us? They get a pass because they broke the law, crossed illegally, have not paid any taxes?
This one issue, I can not see eye to eye with any liberal..
Swashbuckler @ 9:
Different incentives. There are different incentives involved in desperately trying to get into the United States, and avoiding getting a license and insurance. Not all law breaking is equal.
Plenty of citizens already break the law by driving without licenses and/or insurance.
I am shocked to see people dont understand the difference between ID & License.. you can issue them State Ids, but drivers license? Really? We dont "need" illegal immigrants like the libs would have us believe... It is just another voting block for the democrats; And hence it is in the REpubs interest to avoid it at all costs.. Nobody cares about immigrants that are trying to come here legally or immigrants who have studied in this country and stayed back to pursue their american dream.. it will take them 10 years before they can call themselves American...
TheEnticer @ 14:
How has C&L argued any such thing in its post? C&L was comparing Giuliani's approach to illegal immigration with Clinton's, and noting the differences in media treatment that persist nevertheless.
As for illegal immigrants not paying any taxes, don't be so sure. In fact, if they're working at regular wage jobs, their taxes will already have been withheld by their employers. What they won't file are tax returns. Some might even end up paying more income taxes than they would otherwise have to, given their annual income.
If you wanna' be a true purist on the immigration issue, perhaps we should DEPORT MAYFLOWER DESCENDANTS
Part of the problem with the drivers licenses is that they're seen as conflicting with the push toward what they call "Real ID's." These are somehow secured to make stealing identification harder. Only trouble is they're expensive. I hear soon in Texas it will cost $100.00 just to renew your license every year. If you have a family, imagine multiplying that over the number of drivers in your household.
Meanwhile they're trying to pass laws requiring picture id's before voting.
As for giving those illegal aliens "some rights and protections", what will happen is that will encourage a new wave of illegal immigration, which both the GOP and the Dems will allow to happen. So, if you actually think it through, "C&Ler Heather" is supporting one of two things: either a rolling series of amnesties and de facto open borders, or the continuation of the side-effects of illegal immigration that she pretends to decry.
Here's an idea: how about supporting enforcing the law?
Swashbuckler @ 9:
Both did? No. There were illegals during the dot com days of economic bliss and they did not drive down American wages. Outsourcing and the unbelievable tax cuts given to companies operating overseas did. Entire industries moved to India and China. The wages given those employees did not come back into the communities here, which at least illegals bring to a surprisingly robust amount. For example, the state of Texas Comptroller is the only state comptroller to do an in-depth study of the cost and revenue of 'undocumented workers'. She reported:
Elsewhere, both the Dallas and Houston papers reported that without the $17.7 billion, Texas would be broker.
That is not what happens with outsourcing. In addition to jobs going overseas, we lose the after-hours spending, the tax dollars and investment in the communities.
"to break the law again and drive without a license and insurance?" Let them get a damn driver's license and buy mandatory insurance, then they wont be breaking the law. If we allow it for car rentals, allow it for regular cars.
Karen.. you cant work without SSN (at least in CA). where would you get an SSN if you are illegal? If so, what SSN is the social security held under?
Please dont mislead people into thinking "taxes withheld at employer"
TheEnticer @ 16:
I certainly won't quarrel with you on your point that those of you who aspire to be here legally are doing what you're supposed to be doing, and should be rewarded for it. And indeed, it must be excruciatingly frustrating knowing that there are those who don't play by the rules, and who benefit therefrom. (It is thus in all facets of life.)
Frankly, I don't think it should take so long for you to become citizens here. I think they make it way too hard on you. You come here, you work hard, and you participate in, and contribute to, our country. Hell, that's more than I can say for a lot of people privileged to have been born here. It should not take decades for you to earn your citizenship. You are governed by our laws, and you should certainly have the right to vote here.
TheEnticer @ 14:
What do you mean they dont pay any taxes? They pay them. You think every job is cash working in some obscure garden? They have taxes taken out but dont file returns, so they dont get any of it back. The IRS reported $6 billion this year in Social security payments that went unclaimed. Read this report from the state of Texas, as I mention above.
TheEnticer @ 22:
So, you're saying that employers aren't hiring illegal immigrants despite their lack of documentation? Or that the documentation is never faked, successfully fooling employers who are either eager to be fooled or simply don't do their homework?
If that were true, there'd be no illegal immigration problem. They wouldn't be getting hired anywhere, and they wouldn't be getting paid.
TYPO in #22:
Elsewhere, both the Dallas and Houston papers reported that without the $17.7 billion, Texas would be broker.
should read: Elsewhere, both the Dallas and Houston papers reported that without the $17.7 billion, Texas would be broke.
Ummm, what is IOKIYAR?
TheEnticer @ 22:
You buy them. This has been a roaring underground business for decades. What planet are you on? There have been stories galore for years about people who work for SSN bringing home the paper and making a cottage industry out of it.
And employers absolutely have to withhold taxes or they wouldn't be legal themselves. One girl who cleaned for me earned $5/hr in a curtain factory and left because the boss took out half her wages in taxes. She had two kids.
Karen @ 25:
OK.. so now you are saying we should reward someone for fakingpapers, stealing identity and crossing the border illegally..
Shocks the conscious.. how dumb can you get?
redratio1 @ 27:
It's OK If You Are Republican
;)
The gop and some dems think it is okay for this administration to break the law.
The dems think it is okay for illegal immigrants to break the law.
I think a consistent position of enforcing the law and nobody is above the law, is the only position, if we are truly a nation of laws.
TheEnticer @ 29:
I advocated nothing of the sort. You have inferred all sorts of things that I never implied.
You suggested that illegal immigrants could not find work in the U.S. without a Social Security number, and that therefore, they could not be paying any taxes. All I said in my post was that you were factually wrong. I said nothing about how we should be rewarding people for breaking the law.
I am trying to make it a policy of not engaging in debate with people who have to hurl unprovoked insults like, "How dumb can you get." I have hurled none at you.
This will be my last response to you. Good day.
Hardball and Chris Matthews are going through really hard times. His ratings have plummeted and even a new producer can't get things back on track. Matthews has gone from interesting commentator to flaming prognosticator. He either panders to his guests like a love sick sycophant (or is that psycho-phant) or brasses over them to ask bullying, oratorical questions that he then interprets and qualifies so many times the guest (or is that quest) is left 10 seconds to respond.
Harball's lastest DESPERATE "ratings booster" is to rank all the presidential hopefuls with all kinds of gimmicky titles and graphics. Political comedy at its best. And then Chris delivers with all the seriousness in the world his pick's for president, the top contender being , Surprise of all Surprises, Hillary Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.
So now we'll have Chris Matthews bellowing for the next year interpreting every iota of information as confirmation that his prediction is right. Too bad two polls out this weekend show Hillary's lead in New Hampshire cut in half, now just 10 points over Obama. Stunning, given that Chris Matthews and other status quo Washington panderers have been scheduling the Hillary Cornoation for months and months.
IMHO, this Hardball rankings gimmick was a really stupid move at MSNBC. It's the equivalent of "call the race" before it even begins. Chris has showed us his cards. His abilities as a forecaster will be known in time. Short term says he's blustering.
I was a long time fan of Hardball, but Chris has jumped the shark. It's best days are long gone and watching its decline is something I don't intend to do, a judgment scores of other viewers seem to be making every day. We the People will need to look elsewhere for balanced, insightful, UNBIASED, commentary.
[Deleted. Flame. You are on very thin ice-Sitemonitor]
Matthews is an idiot. Matthews has always been an idiot. Even when he says something I agree with 100%, I also remeber that he's always been an idiot. Who in this country actually marks him as a voice of liberal or progressive or left-leaning journalism? The friggin' guy voted for that chimp in 2000, for christ's sake, and admitted it.
And the bigger issue here is that we spend so much time talking about illegal immigration these days. There are only 12 million undocumented people in the whole country of 300 million - that 4% of the population. And most of them aren't even from Mexico.
I was surprised when this was raised by the GOP at the end of '04. They were saying thsi would be their next big issue, and we bought into it completely. Border patrols, fences, terrorism threats, Lou Dobbs hyperventilation, shitty jobs lost to brown people. When your country wants to build a fence across an entire border, you should ask yourself if they're keeping them out, or you in. The Berlin Wall had to be built because so many Westerners wanted in to East Germany - you know, illegal aliens. Build a fence!
All we do is react.
TheEnticer @ 22:
As someone who has worked alongside many illegal immigrants, I can tell you how they get Social Security numbers, printed on Social Security cards.. They buy them.
It takes the IRS about two years to notify the employer that the numbers are fake (These numbers are put on faked SS Cards, that they often pass around among friends and family members, since they can cost several hundred dollars).
So taxes ARE withheld by the employer, and the SS number builds an account. Or it is added to an existing account. Usually, the real owner of the number gets to keep it in their account, and it benefits them-in higher SS bennies.
What happens after the boss is notified is that he or she is obliged to dismiss the best workers he or she has ever employed, if they care about not breaking the law.
But in the mean time, all the IRS revenue collected has never been claimed back, because these guys do not file income tax returns.
Also, whenever Illegal immigrants buy goods or services themselves, the contribute to the state and local tax base. If they work in a state with income tax-they contribute there too-under their counterfeit SSNs.
You really should think before you hit that old 'Submit Comment' button. You could save yourself looking like someone who talks about that of which you know nothing.
The Chris Matthew's Motivation:
Hates the Clintons (probable penis envy and fear of strong women)
Loves manly men (eg. Rudy, Bush on flight deck and his "nobility". Thompson smells good and smokes cigars, etc}
Ratings drop
Now opposite Dobbs. Suddenly Chris takes up the issue of illegal immigrants.
Late mid-life crisis. Constant reference to women' s looks. Male insecurity.
Olbermann envy. Friday compared Olbermann to O'Reilly. Can you smell the fear?
Intentional ignorance (ripped on The Daily Show and thinks it is because he is taller than Jon Stewart)
Over estimation of his importance and political intelligence.
MSNBC: First rid yourself of Tucker and then Matthews (although I will miss his daily meltdowns)
Kathleen @ 12:
What did Edwards say about Obama choosing to practice his speechifying in NH rather than voting on Kyl-Lieberman? Still waiting for that question to be asked at a debate or by the MSM for that matter. A very important vote yet he chose not to vote & nobody asks him why or how he can judge anyone when he didn't even vote.
Tweety mentions Edwards sometimes but his main goal is trashing the Clintons 24/7 for anything under the Sun & beyond. If you think he's promoting Hillary for President, you're not listening to Tweety's actual words. He's always begging his guests to suggest ways that Hillary can be stopped by Edwards or Obama or ANYONE! Everything that happens on the Democratic side is cast as "Hillary & the Democrats" or "Hillary probably would've done what the Democrats did...." He's not anointing Hillary Clinton the next Democratic candidate or President. He's desperately trying to prevent that from happening. Watch his show sometime & listen to what he actually says after he's brought up the name Hillary Clinton. He's beyond obsessed with her & Bill too as regards his marital relationship to Hillary. It's a truly sick obsession (beyond his simple misogyny) which you can even see from the rage on his face & spittle flying from his mouth as he starts in on Hillary Clinton & "how can we stop her?" The other day, he wasted part of a segment on his deepest concern for this week: "Why does Hillary clap when she's in front of an audience? What's that all about? Is it a Chinese thing or what? There was The Cackle & now she's clapping. Well, we wondered why she clapped so much & here's what we found out by asking a friend from college who said there are 4 possible reasons......" If you still think he's promoting Hillary Clinton for anything positive let alone POTUS, enjoy your delusion.
Being for drivers licenses for illegal aliens is a HUGE loser. All the polls show that. IDs dont give you the right to do anything, theyre just a way of keeping track of you.
If you cant see that you have a tin ear about this issue.
getalife Says: ...I think a consistent position of enforcing the law and nobody is above the law, is the only position, if we are truly a nation of laws.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we're not a nation of laws. Per the GOP, we're a nation run by a "unitary executive" that is above the law. Seems the Dems have pretty much bought into the idea.
As far as the illegals immigrants are concerned, there shouldn't be any illegals in the country. As far as having legal immigrants in the country, with a guest worker program, sounds ok if there here to do jobs that Americans won't do, as opposed to being here to undercut wages in jobs that Americans will do.
I look at the issue through the same lens as I look at "free trade". If you're in favor of shifting work out of the country and to 3rd world nations where standards of living are lower, and wages are lower, requiring American workers to accept lower wages to keep the work, then, you should be in favor of importing 3rd world workers to undercut wages here in those jobs that can't be moved overseas. The purported front runners for President are free traders.
I see a lot of immigrant workers in construction. I knew laborers and carpenters back in the 60s and 70s that could put their kids through private college. I have a feeling that carpenters and laborers would have a problem doing that today.
Some Republicans are supporting ballot initiatives to make "English the Official Language" and so forth, to motivate the bigots, generally bigots against the Mexicans, to turn out to vote. They know their base. These people can stuff their bigotry up.....
all of you idiots that want to run the "illegals" out of the country, well, you will just
drive the costs of many of our foods, goods and services thru the roof, when there is no one to do the work. all of these wonderful people have provided many services to our society for a very long time now and we all know that all you bastard, selfish and retarded white shits would never do any of the work they provide. so before you slam me, i am a 60 yr white male who knows that some of the best we have and get in this country has come from the very people being rudly abused at lower wages and then forced out of this country by arrogant bastards.
hareli @ 21:
Yep.
ROFLMAO!!!
Dude, that's apples and cars. Come back when you have a clue about what you're talking about.
A. This is very different from African slavery. Those people were kidnapped, brought to the U. S. (colonies) and forced to work for nothing against their will. Mexicans come here willingly and willingly work for substandard wages. (You can throw out whatever rationalization you like, they make this choice). They are also breaking the law when they come in here and they know it perfectly well. They choose to enter a system of near slavery.
B. The African-Americans had Constitutional rights that had been ignored for 100 years until the 1960s--they didn't sneak into the U. S. and then get out in the streets and DEMAND rights that they are not entitled to. It's a very different situation.
C. Employers who employ illegals should be punished, but the illegals are not blameless, either. We need to stop looking at them through rose-colored glasses. Maybe some of them are having a hard time surviving in Mexico, but many of them just see a chance to get into the U. S. and push for something they aren't entitled to. And they're not all in some dead-end job working for nothing, either.
D. Giving them "rights" and amnesty would be the worst thing we could do. It absolutely will encourage even greater illegal entry, that's just a no brainer. Ronald Reagan amnestied 3 million illegal hispanics and we were promised the border would be secured and there would not be another amnesty. But the hispanics and U. S. business community are trying to strong-arm the U. S. politicians to repeat the amnesty. If we want to keep control of our own country, then it's time to stand up to this egregious practice.
It's too bad things have gotten so bad, but employers know they're breaking the law, hispanics know they're breaking the law. There's no good reason why any of these people should be given preferential treatment and be allowed to ignore the law. That's the whole problem with the U. S. We're not a blended nation of immigrants, we're a nation of groups of people figuring out how to mis-use our system to get privileged treatment for themselves at the expense of everybody else in society. It needs to stop.
theWalrus @ 3:
this debate is NOT about immigrants, it's about ILLEGAL aliens sneaking into our country.
yogi-one @ 8:
You are confusing Guest Worker with illegal immigrant. Guest Workers come into the country legally, but their rights are limited and they can never be citizens or permanent residents. They know going in that's the deal.
Illegals come in illegally, have no rights, except for the basic human rights the Constitution affords everyone in our country at any given time. They can be treated even worse than Guest Workers because they are fugitives from justice. Employers know that.
We can prevent Bush's Guest Worker program. We need to also prevent illegal entry if we don't want to see people mistreated and see our own middle class destroyed.
We should keep trying to help Mexico, but at some point, that country has to start helping itself. The U. S. has bailed them out of bankruptcy more than once, and the public officials just pocket the money and drive their country into financial trouble once again.
TheEnticer @ 16:
This absolutely right. Karl Rove initially opened the border to illegal hispanics. W had taken the hispanic vote in TX, so Rove thought that would be a sure way to get a Republican super majority nationally, what he called "immigration reform." It backfired when hispanics started showing a preference for Democrats. Now, the Democrats have adopted Rove's strategy. They refuse to do anything to secure the border or address the millions of illegals in the country because they know hispanics come here with the aid of their relatives who are citizens. Democrats want to get the votes of the legal hispanic/Americans, so they flout the law. They couldn't care less if it's good or bad for society as a whole and for the illegals themselves. They just want votes. That's also why they won't crack down on the employers. They want that corporate donation and this election, the corporations are funding the Democrats.
dadams @ 42:
So are you saying that cheap prices trump the law? Are you saying Americans are so wedded to cheap junk they must have illegals to ensure cheapness? And what will happen when this 12 million gets amnesty, the employers refuse to pay them better wages, and cut them loose so they can import desperate workers from some other third-world plance? I just love this argument.
According to your logic, you could get things even cheaper, just steal them! Obviously, you have no respect for the rule of law.
TheEnticer @ 14:
If you are not naturalized yet, I suggest you get the heck out of here and go to Canada or some other reasonable nation. You're looking at the wave of the future in the U. S. right here on C & L.
When slavery was abolished the KKK came into conception. And it is still around. I wonder what vigilante group will come about if they issue drivers license? Could it be Blackwater?
kaT @ 48:
evidently you are smoking something today. you missed the point. i never mentioned breaking the law, somthing i do not condone, but you don't solve this problem with a flood of your insipid logic. i don't have the solution, but if you instigate some of the overreaching approaches the gop hypocrites use, things will get much worse than they are now. this is a complex problem and we are supposed to be a benevolent society.
Wonder if we buy Hillary Aqua Velva or Old Spice and give some to the immigrants Matthews would love the smell. He loves rudi and Thompson because of their manly smell.
For crying out loud! Can we stop this stupid thing of expecting everyone to understand what every effing acronym means? And it isn't just about the acronyms that some people think make them appear clever. It is also about the use of obscure three syllable words instead of the common "liar, "lying, "effing liar' that would suffice!
If you want to appear intelligent, use the extra syllable. If you want to appear 'cool' use the effing acronym. If you want to actually be understood, ....talk to people in language they understand.
There are too many cool and intelligent people in the US to actually save it I fear.
This morning, Matthews had one of those slips of the tongue so common to right wing rhetoric, he attributed the post Katrina mess to "Clinton."
Not even an oops. Just went right on like the suits told him to.
The comment that we should give rights and protections to foreign workers and protect American workers too is completely contradictory. Why should we bring in foreign people and give them union wages and benefits instead of giving these benefits and protections to our own people? And do you really believe that if wage protection and benefits are legislated for illegal workers, the corporations will keep them on? No, the whole game is to get desperate people who will work for nothing.
miss_kitty @ 37:
There was a headline article last week that 23 illegals were arrested at O'Hare Airport in Chicago. They all had SS cards--the numbers belonged to deceased people or they just steal someone's SS number and draw off that person's account.
dadams @ 51:
No, you didn't mention breaking the law, but that's what this thread is about, ILLEGAL aliens. I didn't miss anything and there's nothing wrong with my logic. If you think the people being forced out of the country (hasn't happened yet) are not breaking the law, then you're either talking about some other group of people or you're not paying attention to what's happening in this country.
African Americans fought like hell for years to obtain our Civil Rights and now children of these same ass holes that denied us these American rights are now using illegal immigrants in the same manor. These are the same young people that stood smiling as their parents used nooses to beat, burn and hang Innocent black people for nothing. They were encouraged by their parents to get educated in this vile conduct against people and now that horror is playing out yet again as they use these poor immigrants
One of the main reasons they want them with a drivers license is to get control of them and to force them to make even more money for American Insurance companies.
We all should know these insurance companies have no intention of honoring any of the claims made from these people. It's just more money passed from corporation to corporation, that now own, operate and control this country.
They love a stupid ass President like Bush and with the current republicans running for office, including Ron Paul, they will be well on their way to achieve another eight years of corporate prosperity and total hell for the American people.
Bush and the then, vile disgusting Mexican leader, Vasente Fox (or whatever), put their little pea brains together and came up with the solution to solve the problems these major American corporations were having with paying their employee's a decent living wage, following health and safety regulations and providing health care as agreed to them.
They encouraged and outright starved these people to force them to flee to the US to use them for Cheap Labor and the promise of American Citizenship if they fight with us in this illegal war. They never intended for them to become citizens, because Bush never intended to spend the necessary dollars that he is bilking from the US Treasury when he is supposed to provide the safety for them to even return in the first place and that reality should be clear with the numbers of our young people that have died and are seriously wounded and the Military Hospitals not responding to their needs as they are required to do. To make it worst we have the corporate purchased ,media to make sure that this is not discussed and talked about as it should be.
If we all will just connect the dots. We can see exactly what is taking place under this administration as they have the financial means in that these very corporations they are protecting are now using the savings of not having to be responsible to their employee's or the general public, to use to now pay to keep it that way. Subsequent to all this, they have installed hundreds of right wing judges on our courts and busted all the unions in this country.
They have brought in and filled up all the Federal Institutions with Corporate Criminals to block all the needed services, over site and investigative operations that would keep us safe and they have allowed six rich fools to buy out all of the media in this country as they have privatized most everything that we see and hear in the form of News Coverage, that would inform us of these deeds. There is no more News in this country at all and no such thing as investegative reporting as much money as they are getting they will not provide it and FCC that is now also controlled by criminals, will not put a stop to it.
This kind of shit is my main reason for crawling all over any Presidential Candidate that would except Corporate Money to win the office of President. They simply cannot lead this country effectively, when they are indebted to the very people whom have brought this country down and I don't give a dame what they say. They are simply lying.
We need to stop the bull shit folks. We have all these organizations across this country that are simply up in arms about so many issues that if we use our brains and connect the dots, we will see that all of it is connected to exactly the people I just discribed above, that are playing all of us for their own sick use.
When the people that lead these huge End the War Protest in DC, join up with Black and Brown Americans across this country to take all of our cases to the people that are soley responsible for this misery. We can really get these problems solved.
Think about it
kaT @ 56:
They don't draw off the account (I only mention this because it sounds like they gain a future benefit through theft). They add to the account. SS benefits are added to an individual's SS account, whenever ANYONE uses that number for reporting income.
miss_kitty @ 37:
So I suppose since you have worked with so many upright tax paying people you know everything..
In any case, think about what the libs are saying... Open Border to everyone from Mexico, give them citizenship and screw with the ones who are here legally.. I know several of my colleagues with Masters or PhDs from Ivy schools *had* to go back because although they had jobs, were working legally, couldnt get a work Visa and hence once their internships were over, they had to go back... And then to come home and watch some stupid lib on TV espousing the plight of these.. poor, innocent people who have done nothing wrong (other than to cross the border illegaly and maybe steal somebody's id) should be made citizens...
Average cost of going to grad school? Few hundred thousand dollars... every grad student pays taxes and follows every law in this country..
I'm so sick of Matthews fanboydom over repubs "daddies"
Illegal immigration is a fabricated GOP wedge issue, and it's working.
TheEnticer @ 60:
It's hard for people like you to absorb knowledge and take some friendly advice.
More fool you. I was talking about how people get Social Security numbers. I can tell by a cursory glance at your rant in my general direction that said rant had nothing to do with the subject you raised @ 22, and I answered.
It's not worth addressing. bub-bye, hater.
Drivers licenses for illegals is not the answer. You still will have those that do not apply and the fact is they won't earn enough money to pay for insurance to drive.
What insurance company is going to insure " legally " an illegal person in the country?
It is not a Democratic problem nor a Republican problem. I still do not see the border sealed yet.......
If the D.L was a carrot to get them into a "path to citizenship" program that was already implemented, and well thought out, sure. (As opposed to the stick of deportation.)
But otherwise no. No pseudo-citizens. You is or you ain't. ;)
If you want to "bring them out of the shadows" as I recall Spizer saying, do so with more a plan than just that.
Chris Matthews hates Hillary. Every night is a different variation on the hate Hillary theme. He's a republican who doesn't like the war.
"Personally I’d like to know when we’re going to end the practice of slave labor here which we’re using as surely as we were in the lead up to the Civil War..."
So, coming into this country, of your own free will is comparable to being captured, shackled, shipped to a strange land, and forced to work in sub-human conditions while your family and friends are sold off like cattle?
Yeah...people like this aren't helping our cause. You compare illegal immigration to slavery, and immediately everything else you say is discounted.
Doesn't anyone see that Rudy's smug demeanor, and willingness to crack jokes at his opposition, really is foreshadowing the manner in which he'll deal with foreign leaders? What an ass... this 2 party crap has got to stop. I personally enjoy ideals within both, therefor I will not subscribe to either, and I don't believe I am alone. Association, people, is merely another sad way for someone else to control your emotions.
If there wasn't 4 million people behide bars, we would have enough workers for the agriculture business, people are being railroaded for the simple fact that there is not enough jops for all Americans, so when American citizens get locked up, it does two things. 1) Takes away citizens right to vote if convicted. and 2) Allows the excuse to bring in illegals in the country in the first place. These illegals don't vote, so we really never know the true outcome of elections, because all statistics are controlled.
Metthews is a schmuck who makes it all the easier to recognize NBC?MSNBC for the propagandists that they are. The fact the they employ on single token journalist in the person of Keith Olbermann doesn't absolve them.
Death Star @ 69:
Interesting. Good point. (Just wanted to point that out, below has nothing to do with your quote.)
Here is my deal, I have a friend who hired a house cleaner/nanny from Panama who is here illegally . She is great. Works hard, the kids love her, she would do anything for them, as if they were her own kids.
The problem is she wants to bring her own kids here from Panama. She is saving money to hire a "coyote" to bring them up. My friend thinks this is a great idea and even gives her "extra tips" (money) for the process. "WHAT THE HELL" I said, what happens if this coyote rapes one of them or leaves them someplace and just takes the money. I told my friend that if anything happens to the kids, I think she (my friend) should be held responsible. Oh man, she did not like to hear that. "That won't happen, those people know what they are doing... and so on she explained." Oh yeah right, people don't die in the desert, or in the back of locked trucks, oh that NEVER happens.
WTF are you people thinking? There are many many dark down sides to illegal immigration that most of you don't think of. If I hear that G. D. argument of "Well stuff would be more expensive if it wasn't for illegal immigrants" I will throw up on the person making that point. I don't want SLAVE LABOR making my food or anything else for that matter - Here or in China or any other countries. Period. And if you want CHEAPER PRICES at the cost of slave labor then you are no better than the plantation owners of the south were during the 1700's and 1800's.
Really come on.
Feel sorry for the people that leave their own country because it is so bad that they will risk their lives to get here. But don't encourage it by paying someone $20.00 a day for hard labor. Oh, and yes the #1, let me repeat that, the #1 employers of illegal immigrants are people that hire day laborers. Some of you may want to equate the illegal immigrants to the homeless. That doesn't fly with me either. The homeless need programs that can help them. They don't need a dollar or two handouts at a stoplight at a busy intersection.
"right wing tool"
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