Well, of course, we all know that for Republicans the 'accountability moment' is measured in nanoseconds. After all, you can't expect the 'personal responsibility' crowd to actually take personal responsibility for anything they do.

If the name of the United States of America is to be hauled out of the mud and cleaned up, a whole lot of these people will need to go to jail. If not, the world will never again take seriously anything Americans say about human rights, the rule of law or democracy.

"We have to do those things over there, so we don't have to do them over here..."

Bookem Danno @ 1:

Well, of course, we all know that for Republicans the 'accountability moment' is measured in nanoseconds. After all, you can't expect the 'personal responsibility' crowd to actually take personal responsibility for anything they do.

If the name of the United States of America is to be hauled out of the mud and cleaned up, a whole lot of these people will need to go to jail. If not, the world will never again take seriously anything Americans say about human rights, the rule of law or democracy.

Silly person!

Personal responsibility is only for the little people.

xoites defends Constitution @ 4:

I really believe the detainies at Gitmo are getting the best medical treatment available just as i believe the President when he says we are not spying on Americans and that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

:)

It's the restored dignity and honor...

I mean, torture, denial of medical treatment, kidnapping people so others can torture them--dignified and honorable, I mean...if you're...I mean...right?

It's still dignified and honorable if your attorney general lets you get away with it, right?

StCyrlyMe @ 8:

For just a while, I kinda thought this guy Cafferty was on the right track, but it seems he is still a chip off the old block.

Who the hell do these people think they are dealing with?

Fact of the matter is that most of the people at Gitmo were handed over by the northern alliance soldiers in return for money. In other words, it's no surprise that these people have been locked up in there since 2002. Why is it no surprise? Because if they were guilty of anything the military would have already brought chargers against them. Or, at the very least, told us why they're being held there.

America running a concentration camp is more then a "little" scary

I also loved the fact that they included the one Wing-Nut response about the people being held at Gitmo are "thugs and murderers", if that's the case "bozo" then why don't we put them on trial and send them to a real prison? and the funny part is I agree with him at the end of his letter that it would be better to spend the money for Gitmo on something to help American citizens, except the Bush administration hates the American citizens, we are just a road block to their total authority, so they wouldn't give the money from Gitmo to help any American citizen, they would simply reroute it to one of their butt buddy corporations...or simply pocket it themselves.

we spent trillions on the cold water only to open gulags a decade plus later

All joking aside. I really dont care. I dont care what they do to terrorists, and I dont care to give prisoners at Gitmo the benefit of the doubt.

What I do care for however is the lack of "follow through" I see when it comes to this admin. You're not going to allow the Red Cross access??? Fine by me. Then NEVER allow them access. Sames goes for reprters, and any others that have no security interest there.

Here come the flaming retorts in 3, 2, 1....

Her's what the lying liars said back then:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159428,00.html

"The inmates in Guantanamo have never eaten better, they've never been treated better … the idea that we are somehow torturing people in Guantanamo is absolutely not true, unless you consider eating chicken three days a week is torture," House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (search), R-Calif., said during a press conference Monday, handing out copies of inmate menus — which feature meals such as lemon chicken — to reporters.

"They are being treated well and yet the story is being given that somehow they're being abused."

i wonder what army is going to have to liberate these concentration camps from americans?

are they going to have to clean up masses of shoes and empty out the ovens as well? or just bury the rotting bodies in mass graves?

i wonder if they will make americans stand and watch the snuff/torture films that are being leaked out.

rasta @ 21:

i wonder what army is going to have to liberate these concentration camps from americans?

are they going to have to clean up masses of shoes and empty out the ovens as well? or just bury the rotting bodies in mass graves?

i wonder if they will make americans stand and watch the snuff/torture films that are being leaked out.

You'd like that wouldnt you? You'd like for us to be as evil as the Nazis in 1942, simply so you can run around and say "I told you so!!!!"

That kind of Pseudointelligent arrogance astonishes me EVERY time I witness it.

Jay @ 17:

All joking aside. I really dont care. I dont care what they do to terrorists, and I dont care to give prisoners at Gitmo the benefit of the doubt.

What I do care for however is the lack of "follow through" I see when it comes to this admin. You're not going to allow the Red Cross access??? Fine by me. Then NEVER allow them access. Sames goes for reprters, and any others that have no security interest there.

Here come the flaming retorts in 3, 2, 1....

I am glad we are not perpetuating sterotypes of Americans of being stupid and evil. Why would other countries have to support us if we are no better than terrorists? At the rate we are going Israel and Saudi Arabia are going to be our only allies, which is fitting considering all have violated human rights.

Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 22:

bess @ 19:

Her's what the lying liars said back then:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159428,00.html

"The inmates in Guantanamo have never eaten better, they've never been treated better … the idea that we are somehow torturing people in Guantanamo is absolutely not true, unless you consider eating chicken three days a week is torture," House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (search), R-Calif., said during a press conference Monday, handing out copies of inmate menus — which feature meals such as lemon chicken — to reporters.

"They are being treated well and yet the story is being given that somehow they're being abused."

Exactly...if their eating Lemon Chicken, and I'm told they are (it must be true) then they don't need the Red Cross to visit...the Red Cross would make the chicken taste funny. And we wouldn't want to take that away from the evil doers

Duncan Hunter is running for president - funny how that quote has never been used as a "gotcha" by the MSM, isn't it? IOKIYAR!

Jay @ 23:

rasta @ 21:

i wonder what army is going to have to liberate these concentration camps from americans?

are they going to have to clean up masses of shoes and empty out the ovens as well? or just bury the rotting bodies in mass graves?

i wonder if they will make americans stand and watch the snuff/torture films that are being leaked out.

You'd like that wouldnt you? You'd like for us to be as evil as the Nazis in 1942, simply so you can run around and say "I told you so!!!!"

That kind of Pseudointelligent arrogance astonishes me EVERY time I witness it.

You just said you didn't care about how we treat our prisonors and then you said it is rasta that wants America to be evil. It seems you are the one that wants us to be as evil as the Nazis.

ok, if we cant impeach....after they leave office, can we not turn bush, cheney, rummy, condi and everyone else from this criminal administration over to a war crimes tribunal???

convict and put them all against the wall to face a firing squad

Jay @ 26:

Nicole Belle @ 24:

Jay @ 17:

All joking aside. I really dont care. I dont care what they do to terrorists, and I dont care to give prisoners at Gitmo the benefit of the doubt.

What I do care for however is the lack of "follow through" I see when it comes to this admin. You're not going to allow the Red Cross access??? Fine by me. Then NEVER allow them access. Sames goes for reprters, and any others that have no security interest there.

Here come the flaming retorts in 3, 2, 1....

Jay, I'm curious. What makes you convinced the people we're talking about ARE terrorists? Bush's say so? Given his track record of being truthful on any given issue is somewhere below the Mendoza line, what makes you think he'd be right on this?

You make a good point Nicole, but his "say so" is no more less credible than yours...so what makes you think they're not?

Actually, given our respective track records, I'd like to think that I AM a more credible in this regard.

That said, we have news reports that have come out and are available to anyone with a passable knowledge of google searches that many--if not most--of the people rounded up and sent to Gitmo and Abu Ghraib (including teenagers) were simply guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bounties were offered and no investigations were necessary. Neighbors ratted on neighbors, not for any truth to the accusation, but to receive the money.

That's exactly why not giving them access to legal counsel and Red Cross is so important. We don't know who we have. We don't know what they've done. But we DO know that we have alienated and angered the exact population that we were trying to liberate and come to some sympathetic alliance with the US by our machiavellian measures.

And that's not invoking Godwin...that's reality. Try this amazing liberal concept: empathy. If you were locked up for years on end and not given access to anyone who could help you out of this mess (and knowing full well that you were at most guilty of being Muslim), how would you feel?

Is that the shining beacon of democracy that we're supposed to be promising?

That said, we have news reports that have come out and are available to anyone with a passable knowledge of google searches that many–if not most–of the people rounded up and sent to Gitmo and Abu Ghraib (including teenagers) were simply guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bounties were offered and no investigations were necessary. Neighbors ratted on neighbors, not for any truth to the accusation, but to receive the money.

First, I'm gonna call BS on the "most" comment. Not gonna just let that one go without a source more credible tan Ko's or The Onion.

Second, As much as a travesty that I found Abu Ghiraib to be, it is a separate issue from Gitmo. both were formed for different reasons, and to correlate the two besides for the alledged flushing of a Koran, is disingenuous at best.

In response to Jay on #33. Why in the hell are we locking up people we don't know what they've done? Isn't that totally counter to law? Charge them with a crime, then detain them. Not detain them and then look for a crime to charge them with. Yours is the kind of talk that will put us in more danger than anything Al Qaeda can ever do. Only the United States can take down the United States, and so far, we are doing a helluva job at it.

Nicole Belle @ 33:

Try this amazing liberal concept: empathy. If you were locked up for years on end and not given access to anyone who could help you out of this mess (and knowing full well that you were at most guilty of being Muslim), how would you feel?

Is that the shining beacon of democracy that we're supposed to be promising?

Exactly. It's not "honor and dignity" and it's not "freedom on the march."

Symes @ 6:

dadams @ 2:

bush and cheney will pay for their crimes, karma is catching up with them.

I'd prefer it if the Hague was the one catching up with them.

Bush and Cheney will never pay in this world unfortunetelly. As the reality shows, only small and middle polititians can be judged. America will never let any court say that its leader is criminal.

Jay your values are why the perception of the US as a racist, hysterical, xenophobic country obsessed with fucking up the brown muslim people is pervasive in the world.
Congratilations.

I found this story a little shocking. $10B aid to Pakistan for the war on terror and the regular army is only today getting involved.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071117/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanunrestnorthw...

Insurgent advances in and around Swat have embarrassed the government of Musharraf, who cited growing Islamic militancy as one of the key reasons for imposing emergency rule.

He has since ordered the regular army -- rather than the locally recruited paramilitary forces -- to take the lead in tackling the unrest, which has spilled over from the neighbouring tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.

Nicole Belle @ 38:

Jay @ 35:

That said, we have news reports that have come out and are available to anyone with a passable knowledge of google searches that many–if not most–of the people rounded up and sent to Gitmo and Abu Ghraib (including teenagers) were simply guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bounties were offered and no investigations were necessary. Neighbors ratted on neighbors, not for any truth to the accusation, but to receive the money.

First, I'm gonna call BS on the "most" comment. Not gonna just let that one go without a source more credible tan Ko's or The Onion.

Second, As much as a travesty that I found Abu Ghiraib to be, it is a separate issue from Gitmo. both were formed for different reasons, and to correlate the two besides for the alledged flushing of a Koran, is disingenuous at best.

Seriously, Jay. Do google searches. We've done posts before on it here. It's not my job to educate you. You must do it for yourself, unless you prefer to live in a world of truthiness, which given your ad hominem against Keith Olbermann, may indeed be the case.

The truth is out there, Jay. I just don't think you want to hear it.

I'm not interested in discussing anything with someone who wants to be so willfully ignorant of the thing for which they're arguing, so I'm done here. I've got some other posts to work on.

And that's the bottom line here, NB. This guy is just looking for attention on a Saturday afternoon. Christ, he practically begged people to attack him in his first post! Feggetaboutit.

We didn't give Pakistan "aid" or "money" . . . we gave them credits to buy military hardware from us. We gave them credits to purchase equipment to help them control the democratic movements.

Wealth (for the select few) is created by the issuance of debt and there is no better way to create debt than war.

Jay @ 35:

That said, we have news reports that have come out and are available to anyone with a passable knowledge of google searches that many–if not most–of the people rounded up and sent to Gitmo and Abu Ghraib (including teenagers) were simply guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bounties were offered and no investigations were necessary. Neighbors ratted on neighbors, not for any truth to the accusation, but to receive the money.

First, I'm gonna call BS on the "most" comment. Not gonna just let that one go without a source more credible tan Ko's or The Onion.

Second, As much as a travesty that I found Abu Ghiraib to be, it is a separate issue from Gitmo. both were formed for different reasons, and to correlate the two besides for the alledged flushing of a Koran, is disingenuous at best.

Well, if you'd check the link from the damn post first you'd have seen:

The Associated Press was able to track 245 of those formerly held at Guantanamo. The investigation, which spanned 17 countries, found:

_Once the detainees arrived in other countries, 205 of the 245 were either freed without being charged or were cleared of charges related to their detention at Guantanamo. Forty either stand charged with crimes or continue to be detained. ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/16/AR200612...

205 out of 245 were just released without any charges. That sounds like "most" to me Jay. I don't see any reason, especially since almost all of them are still being denied any due process at all, that the 300 or so still held in Gitmo are going to be any different.

I thought I'd read about this years ago...

Was it just not on the AP?

How long can one be held in a 'real' American prison without being charged?

I dont care what they do to terrorists, and I dont care to give prisoners at Gitmo the benefit of the doubt.

Jay you are typical of the Murkin perspective. "I don't care..." If we have them locked up, they MUST be terrorists.

Life is so simple for folks like you. By folks like you, I mean narcotized. Because only someone with a blunted, careless thought process like that would accept such a simplified justification for incarcerating people without charge. Such an attitude is so anti-american in it's criminality that ironically enough it could, in many fascist states, put you in a similar situation. Why? Simply because someone says so! We have a constitution and a Bill of Rights because it puts us above that very type of behaviour that you emulate. You don't care because it's not you. But it could be.

Oh and George Bush is a proven liar. Can the same be documented about Nicolle Belle?

Oh, that's right. We don't care.

Yeah I got hold of that the other day. I'm only about a quarter of the way through it (it's like 250 pages ). Thus far I haven't seen anything really untoward. Basically just seems like a max security prison except that there's a bunch of rules about the Koran. Who they belong to, how to handle them and so forth.