I was hoping KO would have something to say on this tonight.

Liars, damn liars and the President of the U.S.

Another possible reason why they brought Wolfowitz back: DENIAL.

These people are SOOOO deep in denial over everything they've screwed up, they *still* believe Iraq will become the germ of Democracy that spreads through the Middle East, and now they need Wlfie's brilliant Iraq plan to be retooled for their attack on Iran.

(I found the tie-in to the "Iran is providing weapons to the insurgency" meme as not being brought up in a while. I was just thinking about that today.)

and to think ,the 30%rs will not believe this...no matter who says it...

Two things:

If Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in the fall of 2003, and 16 different member agencies of our intelligence community unanimously concur on this, doesn't that mean that reports sayin' this have been crossin' Stupor Mundi's desk fer 4 years now? Okay, I know this is what anyone with half a brain has gotta be thinkin'. But consider my second thought here.

If I've read between the lines correctly, the person who was charged by the CIA with gatherin' intelligence on Iranian nukes was....wait a second...

VALERIE PLAME!

Think about this. She was outed in July of '03 after her husband's public statements on the falsehoods regardin' Iraqi nukes. But we'd already, in July of '03, been in Iraq fer over 3 months. What did it matter if Joe Wilson piped in at the point he did? We had troops there, Sadaam was on the run...iirc, the "Mission Accomplished" banner had been flown. Was Plame's outing a pre-emptive strike on her because she possessed the information that Iran was in the process of shuttin' down its program?

Chew on that.

"But it won't be a REAL tyranny until I can use nukes, like Truman did."

Daddy said I could.

Just remember, Karl said the war was all the dems fault anyway. Just like this one will be too I suppose.

And yet the Democratic leadership still insists that impeachment is off the table. How blatant must the transgressions of this administration become before Congress decides to finally throw these scoundrels out of office and to file criminal charges against them?

Andy K @ 9:

Two things:

If Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in the fall of 2003, and 16 different member agencies of our intelligence community unanimously concur on this, doesn't that mean that reports sayin' this have been crossin' Stupor Mundi's desk fer 4 years now? Okay, I know this is what anyone with half a brain has gotta be thinkin'. But consider my second thought here.

If I've read between the lines correctly, the person who was charged by the CIA with gatherin' intelligence on Iranian nukes was....wait a second...

VALERIE PLAME!

Think about this. She was outed in July of '03 after her husband's public statements on the falsehoods regardin' Iraqi nukes. But we'd already, in July of '03, been in Iraq fer over 3 months. What did it matter if Joe Wilson piped in at the point he did? We had troops there, Sadaam was on the run...iirc, the "Mission Accomplished" banner had been flown. Was Plame's outing a pre-emptive strike on her because she possessed the information that Iran was in the process of shuttin' down its program?

Chew on that.

Totally agree. The target was the non-"Team Player" (Plame) they felt had to be feeding hubby via pillow talk. The target was never Joe Wilson, but his wife. She could not be relied upon by Cheney and his imps to play ball in the true target of "draining the swamp" They all new Iraq was a cipher, just a snack before the main course.

Erroll @ 15:

And yet the Democratic leadership still insists that impeachment is off the table. How blatant must the transgressions of this administration become before Congress decides to finally throw these scoundrels out of office and to file criminal charges against them?

With not enough votes to complete your threat, you are waving your dick at the conspirators, and that's just not going to be enough.

It's all Ahmadinejad's fault! Poor widdle bush is not at fault, so stop saying that. He just got bad intelligence, that's all. It's not poor widdle bush's fault.

Gawd almighty. We still have more than a year to go with this buffoon at the helm, with the 29 percenters who are still asleep and can't smell the coffee.

Curlydog @ 20:

the goal to create an International Crisis that would allow Bush to stay in office (ala Rudy’s attempt at remaining Mayor after 9/11)

That's not going to work (and it didn't work for Giulianicus). You will note that Bush's ratings are a broken gauge. By this time next year, there will be a new president elect.

Is it Eh-Rahn or I-Ran?
Jesus.
In 1910 we all knew how to pronounce Jer-Man-Ee.

Meanwhile a retard administration dupes America.

David Shuster is an excellent host. He is no Keith but really good none the less.

If the Democratic congress led by "Hopalong" Reid and "Rhoada" Pelosi don't create a shitstorm about this, there has to be a riot at the next Democratic debate . Code Pink meets Chicago 7 . There's no mystery about the Republicans. It's the Dems that have to be exposed as being in collusion with this crap.

American foreign policy is bipartisan and it transcends presidents and parties. A fraternity of senior movers and shakers rules by nods of the head, knowing glances and alumni club dinners. Before Nixon was brought up on impeachment charges, for those of us who paid attention, there was a hiatus. Agnew was removed on hoary old charges that everyone thought were forgotten. Remove Agnew first, then dump Nixon. It was a corporate decision. There was an order to things. The overthrow of the Shah was the greatest disaster to happen in our meddling in foreign governments. It's old business the fraternity has brooded about for some time but hasn't forgotten. First Iraq, then Iran, there's an order to things.

How the mighty have fallen-- Bush didn't even lead with the famous "they can has nukular weapons!!1!" argument of 2002. He skipped straight down to the "they may have the urge to someday consider exploring the notion of getting the knowledge to create nukular weapons" argument that we all saw years after the invasion of Iraq.

Paul in LA @ 14:

Andy K @ 9:

Was Plame's outing a pre-emptive strike on her because she possessed the information that Iran was in the process of shuttin' down its program?

More likely the rumor is true, that Brewster Jennings stopped the smuggling of nuclear material into Iraq -- by Halliburton or some other part of the CIA, in order to make the PREVIOUS lie come true.

If Brewster Jennings had stopped a US player from gettin' yellowcake or componets in, why would Plame then tap her husband to go to Niger. Sure, the administration, if what yer sayin' is right, would've welcomed the chance to send Wilson- they could then investigate if Plame was sharin' top secret info with Wilson. But then they could have gotten her outta the way above the table. Don'tcha think she'd steer her family away from a head-on collision with Bushco, especially when Bushco woulda known who just busted up their frame-up of Iraq?

Once again, readin' between the lines- 'cause Plame's not at liberty to tell all, ya know- her expertise was Iran. But she knew nukes. And Joe, who worked the embassy in Iraq and was the Ambassador to two nations in the neighborhood of Niger. Hell, his first work in the diplomatic corps was as a general services officer in Niger. Joe Wilson worked on settin' our Africa policy fer Clinton's NSC. He knew Niger and its neighbors who produce uranium. He had to have knowledge of how the nuclear proliferation game works. So if Plame didn't know Iraq so well, her husband did, and he knew Niger, too. And nukes. He was the right person fer the job with which the Agency tasked him.

Andy K @ 35 "If Brewster Jennings had stopped a US player from gettin' yellowcake or componets in, why would Plame then tap her husband to go to Niger."

It has been roundly proven that she DID NOT 'tap her husband,' who was the former ambassador to Niger, and Iraq, and therefore the obvious person for the CIA to send.

OH MY GODDD!!!!!!! LEAVE BUSH ALONE!!!!!!!!!!! CANT YOU SEE WHAT YOURE DOING TO HIM?? OH MY GODDDDDDD!!!!!!!! BWAAAAHHHH!!! LEAVE BUSH ALONE!!!!!

Andy K @ 35 "Joe Wilson worked on settin' our Africa policy fer Clinton's NSC. He knew Niger and its neighbors who produce uranium. He had to have knowledge of how the nuclear proliferation game works."

Niger has fixed contracts with FRANCE, which has a very active nuclear power industry (compared to the US). Niger uranium was certainly NOT being sold to Hussein -- this was clear to the former ambassador.

He went, he drank tea and talked to his informants, and he came back and tried to save his country by writing about it for the NYT (which, in the war between the CIA factions, was given sufficient CIA clearance to publish it).

Rachel Maddow is one of my favorite people in the whole universe.

Paul in LA @ 41:

Andy K @ 35 "Joe Wilson worked on settin' our Africa policy fer Clinton's NSC. He knew Niger and its neighbors who produce uranium. He had to have knowledge of how the nuclear proliferation game works."

Niger has fixed contracts with FRANCE, which has a very active nuclear power industry (compared to the US). Niger uranium was certainly NOT being sold to Hussein -- this was clear to the former ambassador.

He went, he drank tea and talked to his informants, and he came back and tried to save his country by writing about it for the NYT (which, in the war between the CIA factions, was given sufficient CIA clearance to publish it).

I'm pretty sure we're in agreement here, Paul. Wilson seems to be very knowledgeable about what's goin' on in west Africa is what I'm sayin'. And I don't think there's a real big secret about from where France gets ita fissible material.

Where Is The Outrage

This is the same network that has been at the forefront of making the case for attacking Iran. I recall, night after night, Pat Bucannon and Joe Scarborough making all sorts of connections to the build up of Iran's nuclear capabilities. The point here is it was given special spin consideration in sensational themes.

Today, with this video, I see this laid back delivery, as if they were talking about a pumpkin festival. This kind of news deserves "snap" and outrage. People have lost their lives behind this president's word one country had WMDs. He was headed in the same direction with Iran. It is at this very point we can examine whether the facts are being fixed to meet the policies of the Bush administration. Connect the dam dots folks. There is no better time.

Joseph

Joseph..it seems that there are a lot of people connecting dots and being outraged. The problem seems to be, what to do next.

beckyboo @ 49:

Joseph..it seems that there are a lot of people connecting dots and being outraged. The problem seems to be, what to do next.

Put impeachment back on the table.

Andy K @ 45 "I don't think there's a real big secret about from where France gets ita fissible material."

OK, but the point is that Niger as a former French colony, has a rigidly strict (French installed) security for that yellowcake. Then again, the original statement by Bush did not name Niger, pawning it off on the British (who got and still get most of their African intel from the French) and 'Africa.'

Meanwhile, Hussein had 300 tons (or more) of yellowcake at Tuwaitha -- yellowcake which Bush pointedly did not guard.

Bush also didn't guard the cesium or strontium stored there, which is excellent for dirty bombs straight out of the cannister.

Allowing that nuclear material to circulate may have served a purpose in giving the anti-proliferation portion of the CIA too much to deal with to stop an import of biological weaponry (I mistakenly said nuclear material above) into Iraq to validate the invasion. But that's just a speculation.

Bushco also failed to guard any of the MANY high-precision machine tools in Iraq, which are now in Iran. This may have been an effort to AID their program and get them to take the bait of restarting their program.

beckyboo @ 46:

The thing I can't get over with the Wilson/Plame issue is, it is well known that the CIA has used Ambassadors to do work for them for decades. It is also well known that there are many "families" in the agency.

Is it possible that Plame was sacrificed for the sake of someone who had a deeper cover, or had more knowledge, being Wilson? I don't know, and don't really know what to think. This is just something that's been kicking around my brain for some time, and I wanted to see what anyone else thought. Maybe the Bush cabal thought that in outing Plame, they would get in less trouble and be able to cover that a CIA officer had outed their nefarious plans, vis a vis Yellowcake into Niger. Is this a reasonable or feasible possibility?

Certainly, as a former diplomat- and an Ambassador, at that- Wilson would have been privy to a lot of top secret info. But in the case of his CIA sponsored trip to Niger, while it was on the qt, it wasn't classified information he was dealin' with. Had it been his NYT op-ed wouldn't have been allowed to run and he woulda found himself on trial in a heartbeat. It was easy fer the administration to get at Wilson. But they needed a reason to get at Plame, imo, because she wasn't toein' the administration's line on Iran. IMO, anyway.

beckyboo @ 46 "Is it possible that Plame was sacrificed for the sake of someone who had a deeper cover, or had more knowledge, being Wilson?"

That wouldn't make sense. Wilson is retired during Republican rule. He is clearly not liked by them. The purpose of outing Plame was to take down her and Brewster Jennings -- as part of a policy of setting back anti-proliferation efforts by every available means.

"Bush is getting his swagger back"-beltway bumpkins

(Directed, that is, at Republicans mainly BY Republicans).

Andy K @ 60 "And wasn't it the Italians who submitted the "documentation"?"

More like an agent within Berlusconi's rightwing faction.

@55 Magically put 40 more free votes in the Senate, and get 30 votes more in the House.

"You and I and very very few others here seem to understand how entrenched the GOP caucus in the Congress is, huh?"

They were bullied into casting their lot with Bushco, and they really have no place to fall other than a pit full of swords.

However, the Republican electorate could still make its will known. It gets a bit tiring carrying the weight of righteousness with the Progressive Democrats as if we are the only halfway noble people in America.

Republicans are SO pwnd.

Wow! Just heard RANDI RHODES speak in Michigan. Give her WE BELIEVE speech a whirl. http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/ Explains the patriotic duty to IMPEACH.

Ron @ 56:

Paul in LA @ 54:

Ron @ 51 "Put impeachment back on the table."

Magically put 40 more free votes in the Senate, and get 30 votes more in the House.

Keep contacting your representatives.

My Rep. is Vern Ehlers, the man who put the "french" back in french fries in the Congressional cafeteria. He's a nice guy. But he's GOP and he'll vote that way when it comes to protectin' Bush and Cheney.

But I could have it worse. My dad's Rep. is Peter Hoekstra*, who gets more caustic by the minute.

*Fer all of ya not surrounded by the Dutch, it's pronounced HOOK-struh, not HOKE-struh or HO-ek-struh. Any time those of us in West Michigan hear those mispronounciations we throw shit at the tv or radio.

Lisa @ 64:

Yale my ass!

I think he would rather Yale Jeff Guckert's ass.

beckyboo @ 68 "Brewster Jennings may have been trying to prevent KBR, or someone else of a like pedigree, of getting nukes INTO Iraq."

I think PURCHASED biological weapons is more likely, since all they would have needed would be proof of some lethal threat.

But then they realized that America was well and truly pwnd by the fake media and the Republican party, and they didn't have to bother.

beckyboo @ 68-

Okay. I see what both of you are saying. What both of you are saying does make sense.

I don't know how Paul feels about this, but after someone last week on a Ron Paul thread accused both Paul & me of bein' the reason no one ever posts a C&L any more, it makes me warm & fuzzy to know there are people who'll engage us in conversation.

even the cia is calling bush a liar now.

beckyboo @ 66 "my daughter had to tell her and bring in articles about him to explain to this young woman who he was, and why he was a danger to democracy. This is sad and frightening."

Neither is pertinent.

I think it's worth remembering the Sixties for what they were -- a horror story from start to finish. People whine about TASERs, but forget (which is what makes it a whine) that thousands of blacks were cattle-prodded (and worse, including being attacked by police dogs, tortured, drowned) for fighting for their basic rights.

In my world, the corruption of the media (which is most likely why the teacher didn't know) means that this is a GRASSROOTS effort. You educated a fellow American -- that is bonny good work, and thank you.

Skip the fear and sadness. We have work still to do.

I've seen Wanted posters of these felons wheat-pasted around. Maybe another art project in that.

Night Andy...and I don't know what to make of the Ron Paul folks..they seem to have selective memory of the dude.

I'm not impressed much. I've read you and Paul before...you are both smart. Sometimes grumpy..but who's not grumpy...

There's plenty to be grumpy about. Besides...like I said...I feel sane when I'm here. I live in suburban conservative hell.

Paul @77

I was still a baby in the sixties. I lived in the south and moved to a very segregated northern city when I was 6.

My hubby is 16 years my senior, and was in Vietnam. I talk to a lot of people, and I listen, so I don't see the sixties as a time of glorious revolution.

I'm a political history nerd, so I read a lot of oddball stuff. I've known about COINTELPRO since I was about 18, and read much about the AIM problems of the 70's. I interviewed Leonard Peltier for my college paper in 1992.(returning student.) Probably one of the highlights of my life.

I have a son who got back from his first tour in Iraq last Christmas, and will be back over there before 2008 is out. I feel that it is an obligation to educate people to "the story behind the story." as much as I can. I have a big family, and I feel like, if someone like me can take the time to seek the truth, most people can, some just need a push in the right direction. And my hub and I are doing what we can to make our children,(all 7 of them) aware that a) the world is a big place b) not everyone thinks like you c) you have to be true to yourself d) you have to stand for something bigger than yourself and e)you should learn something new or interesting everyday, or the day is wasted.

Lately, it's been difficult to keep the faith in the system. So much of it seems broken, and in a state of neglect. BUT...there are a lot of youngster out there who seem to be hungry for something positive..and who are creative and outspoken. They are also extremely bright and articulate.(at least the ones I'm in contact with.)

You are right...fear and sadness are not pertinent. Onward.

beckyboo @ 81

I was suggesting some of the pragmatism of Martin Luther King Jr.

Because it used to be that women had no rights, and blacks had no rights, and child abuse was off the scale, and there wasn't anything like a Genocide convention, etc.

I believe, intensely, that the human race has a destiny of freedom.

Secular humanism, I think they call it.

What you are seeing now is the exact same shit that went on before the invasion of Iraq. Every intelligence agency in the US, Europe and Asia all agreed that Iraq posed no credible threat to any nation. The intelligence agencies in all these countries also now firmly agree that Iran is also not a direct threat to ANY country. The difference between now and then is that Darth Cheney was able to strong arm, the US agencies into using HIS manufactured "evidence" that Iraq was a credible threat. Nobody back then believed it would be possible for the VP to fabricate evidence that would lie us into war. I shouldn't say nobody, there were plenty of people who saw what Poppy Bush did in his 8 years as VP, so it wasn't such a stretch. The huge mistake was when this administration threw the CIA under the bus when it became obvious that the lies they told the CIA just didn't add up. It's OK to lie cheat and steal your way into a war. It's NOT OK to blame the guys who unwillingly allowed you to lie us into war.

NOW it is commonly known in every agency around the world that Darth Cheney and his web of sneaks planted fake stories to create the Iraq debacle. Because of the back stabbing by chimpy and darth, the US intelligence agencies will not allow themselves to be used again to expand the never ending war in the ME. None of this is news. Darth and the CIA, NSA and even DIA have been going head to head for 2 years over this non existant Iranian "threat". It seems only chimpy was stupid enough to follow Cheney's orders and mouthed off about averting a nuclear attack.

Now chimpy has to go in front of the world and lie his way out of his lies. He can't admit what really happened, and he has no other tactic than to wave his hands and look all confused and try to convince people the government is a HUGE machine that can't be comprehended by mortal men. IF the military can hold firm for the next year, then we will have successfully averted WWIII. Lets just keep fingers crossed and hope Darth doesn't convince his Prince of blackwater to fake an attack from Iran.

When will people learn that VP Richard B Cheney is a traitorous lying bastard and the number 1 threat to the security of this country?

Andy K @ 78 "And we will have gotten no help from the national Democratic Party no matter who we run."

Hey, Hoss, there's a new gun in town. His name is Howard Dean. CONTACT HIM!

I agree that under DLC funding control, tons of areas have been left fallow. That can change.

Ron @ 56:

Paul in LA @ 54:

Ron @ 51 "Put impeachment back on the table."

Magically put 40 more free votes in the Senate, and get 30 votes more in the House.

Keep contacting your representatives.

Thanks Ron. Thanks Paul. Ron Paul 2008.
... with liberty and Ron Paul for all.

Rachel is one of the smartest people out there. She's articulate, bright, funny and relevant. She doesn't get shrill or lose her cool.

There aren't many others in the media who have her language skills, her calm, and her common sense. That she is a lesbian is not in any way important. That she is a woman is irrelevant as well.

I see plenty of liberal pundits who are men. Paul Krugman, David Shields, Bob Schieffer, Bill Moyers, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart...and the list goes on.

Also, Katrina Vanden Heuvel is not an idiot. She's a just not as articulate in speech as she is in her writing. What's your problem with women? What female pundit model would you like modern women to follow?

I dont believe Israel is going to give this one up. Somebody is going to be feted with a false-flag operation before Bush leaves office. Who? Toronto? H.R. 1599 (or it is 1565?) is already well-ensconced there. So speculation would be legally controlled, any extra bennie.

There's too much money and there are too many reputations at stake here. Something is going to happen while we collectively lean back and sigh with relief that 'it's over'. It's not. Another Pearl Harbor on the way. And Wolfowitz is in the thick of it to control his end of it, since it's the State Dept that wasn't going along with the Iran program.

Call me what you want: this smells like a five-day-old tuna to me.

Europeans See Murkier Case for Sanctions
I wish to hell I knew what was afoot. But something happened today. Either the Intel groups took it out on Cheney, et al, for what they did to Plame and have won in the short-term; or someone got to the Bush-Condi-Gtes axis and undermined Cheney by proving to Bush he'd been lied to (the guy has NOT been paying attention); or this is a deceptive lull to get everyone off the Iran case while Israel tries another tack waiting for Hillary to do it for them; or what?

Did Bush Sr and his friends step in? What the inside story? The Wolfowitz angle tells me there's a lot of wrangling going on.

Frank @ 90 "Thanks Ron. Thanks Paul. Ron Paul"

Never trust a man with two first names.

waterboarding for jesus @ 97:

Damn it Paul Wolfowitz is back. Completely wrong on everything and now he back.
Bush is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Well actually he is bottom of the barrel anyway so I guess it makes sense. Incompetence is like misery, it likes company.

Wolfie is back because nobody will give him a job, and Cheney/Israel need someone to push this over the goal line for them. I'm quite sure he will mock up some BS that shows mobile enrichment labs and nuclear attack drones, oh sorry wrong set of lies. I meant undetectable reinforced underground enrichment facilities, no not facilities, underground complexes, or cities. Something like the mountain cities that al Qaeda had built in the mountains near Tora Bora. You remember the lovely pictures they made with the hollowed out mountain cities that Ossama had built. Something like that, only much larger and much more threatening. Something that will require bunker busting nukes. Yeah, that's the ticket.

propaganda

beckyboo @ 95 "Lately I've been reading Thom Hartmann "Screwed". Depressing. I'm not done yet, and I am getting rather depressed."

Yeah, there are a lot of dystopic reads available. I need a bit more hope to go with the education.

"My daughter and I have been reading the Koran, and discussing it, as well. Can't understand a group of people, unless you can glean something from their philosophy."

I would rather recommend Rumi and the other 'Persian' poets. Quite a bit of Rumi's poetry turns out to be translations into Persian of the Koran (he was born in what would now be Afghanistan.

"I read the John Adams book by David McCoullough. It was okay. Adams was interesting."

CRAP. McCoullough is one of the worst, least reliable writers out there. If you want to learn about Adams, can't do better, in a shorter work, than The Character of John Adams, by Peter Shaw. Read that, compare to the perspective DM laid on you, recompute.

"I've always had a fondness for the dynamic between John and Abigail, and found that everything I felt was true about them, was."

It is also worth reading his letters to Jefferson, mostly regarding the Jefferson Bible (which I also recommend).

"Back to the Secular Humanism....the last good book I read on religion was Joseph Campbell, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces." My daughter has that on her reading list when she finishes the Koran."

Campbell has fed a lot of people. Personally, my tendency is more toward Heidegger, who is without a doubt the least appreciated of all 20th century philosophers. It's more like mountain climbing than reading, though.

"Basically...I find a lot of books worthy. I prefer Literature to Non Fiction, normally."

If you and your daughter haven't read Mark Twain's short stories, you have missed some great fun. The Man Who Destroyed Hadleyburg is well worth reading in these times (I'm also very fond of the story about lightning rods, can't remember the title, and The Eskimo Queen).

Anyhow, off-topic, but maybe C&L can do a lit open thread for more of this. Books, the right books, are a crucial part of the alchemy of surviving such times as these.

Paul @ 103:

Fortunately for Bush, he's got his strongest allies Pelosi, Hoyer and Reid covering his back.

You are lying.

My response to everything Bush has had to say about Iran, Iraq, terrorists, and just about everything else: BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT!

can we fucking impeach now????

please???

pretty please???

Disgusting on a lot of levels.
That the so called "media" is so ready willing and able to lie for them.
That anyone would be simple and empty headed enough to swallow the spin.
That the current administration is so openly corrupt, evil and mistrusted that upon hearing the revelation we all KNOW it's true.

What is it going to take for the thick headed masses to GET it? Does shrub have to stagger out, drunker than a frat boy, slap a foreign diplomat on the ass and laugh into the mic that they're bombing iran to help steal more oil for his buddies and fuck the consequences ? Would they get it then?

I don't think so either. There are too many idiots out there who WANT this shit to continue. They're fine with the lies as long as they've still got theirs, fuck everybody else.

Hmm, a follow up to my earlier posting regarding Hillary (from 2006):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR200601...

"Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) accused the Bush administration of playing down the threat of a nuclear Iran and called for swift action at the United Nations to impose sanctions on the Iranian government."

Edwards, Dodd or Kucinich 2008

charles @ 111 Yesterday in the Naomi Klein thread I posted that if you had a real democracy you would have universal health care. You were all over that calling the thought ridiculous."

It is still an absurd suggestion. If your government doesn't provide you a ladder to the Moon, then you clearly do not have a free government.

This country was a democracy even when women and blacks didn't have the right to vote. Anyhow, this term 'real' you have inserted after the fact. You did capitalize Democracy, so maybe that meant to imply 'real,' but it is nonsense to make such pure assertions in the world of actual politics and actual governments.

France has barred the wearing of hijab. Therefore, it is not a real democracy. Germany doesn't allow the use of the term Nazi. Therefore it is not a real democracy. Sweden doesn't have a sufficiently integrated population, therefore it isn't a real democracy. You can go around the world finding the standards that you think should be basic to government and saying that without those it isn't a real democracy. But that's not what you said yesterday. You said "a democracy." This is a government generally chosen by the people. It is far from perfect, but it is a democracy.

You want a bigger shovel todig that hole?

How many people continue to buy the bullshit that George Bush peddles? How stupid can people be? I guess George was right. You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you concentrate on.

Thank you Paul in LA. Upon re-reading this thread you may discover methods to refine the delivery of your message. I have one question. Do you believe the Speaker had fore knowledge of the NIE released today, and if so for how long?

Ms. Maddow warns of "compound" questions from the Stenographer Pool today.

Questions to a President who cannot form a compound sentence.

This shit is getting so old.

Well done.

Well, the White House press conference this morning has the potential to be interesting with the Prez himself spinning out his version of reality.

Someday, I hope the patriots get their recognition. The people who exposed the Minot nuke transfer will probably make for the scariest mini-series. But the NIE report release will undoubtedly make for an interesting book too.

boosh'll claim his actions regarding Iran were effective, even if he wasn't conscious of it.

In fact, boosh is usually most effective when he's unconscious.

I wonder what shrub and dick will come up with next....

PRESIDENT BUSH LYING.... WHO'DA THUNK

MAYBE HE JUST WANTS THE NEWS TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT WHEN THEY ARE MISSING

..........................THIS..........................

http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=334
http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=334
http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=334
http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=334

CHECK IT OUT, REPOST, CONTACT YOUR SENATORS

Brilliant Eureka moments don't happen that often if at all. This a.m. is one of them and I thank some of the above comments for bringing it on. Now we all know why it was so important to out Plame, to prevent her from spilling the beans that Iran had or would soon stop its nuclear program.
Committing treason to prevent the world from learning the truth is the most diabolical thing I can think of, and will surely factor largely in the war crime trials that are sure to come some day.

Paul in LA @ 19:

Erroll @ 15:

And yet the Democratic leadership still insists that impeachment is off the table. How blatant must the transgressions of this administration become before Congress decides to finally throw these scoundrels out of office and to file criminal charges against them?

With not enough votes to complete your threat, you are waving your dick at the conspirators, and that's just not going to be enough.

Of course, one can say that it is the duty of Congress, as the Constitution clearly states, to impeach those who hold higher office while committing egregious crimes when they are in power. Or one can say that future generations and scholars will look askance at why this Congress did not perform its constitutional duty by attempting to remove this bunch of criminals from the offices that they hold. Or one could foresee a future administration acting with impunity because their rationale would be, with much justification, that if the Bush administration is allowed to get away with their transgressions, then another evil bunch of politicians in this country will have nothing to fear, since they would be led to believe that Congress is only willing to impeach, despite what the Constitution says, only if it is politically expedient to do so.

But one probably should realize that to say these things would be an enormous waste of time since Paul in L.A.'s use of the term "waving your dick at the conspirators" erases whatever credibility he may have had regarding this issue. The use of that banal and jejune phrase means that he is not meant to be taken seriously and that one should immediately disregard whatever thoughts that he may have on such an important issue.

Busted again and again is the habitual lying bastards in the scarey Bush administration.

@ Paul in LA # 116

"France has barred the wearing of hijab."
You are lying. Or in your words "Whether or not you are lying, it is a LIE." The truth is:

The 2004 French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools bans all clothing which constitutes an ostensible religious symbol from government-operated schools. It is typically justified as a measure to ensure the secularism and religious neutrality of the state - the principle of Laïcité. In December, 2003, President Jacques Chirac supported a new law to explicitly forbid any "visible sign of religious affiliation", in the spirit of laïcité. The law was approved by the French parliament in March 2004.

The law forbids the wearing of any "ostensible" religious articles, but does not cite any item; yet, ministerial instructions appear to target the Islamic veil, the Jewish kippa, and large Christian crosses. Instructions permit discreet signs of faith, such as small crosses, Stars of David, and hands of Fatima. The law applies to students, parents and personnel alike. Without specific legal prohibition, similar policies are occasionally applied in other state organisations and buildings, such as public hospitals.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_dress_controversy_in_Europe#France

"Germany doesn’t allow the use of the term Nazi."
You are lying again. Whether or not you are lying, it is a LIE again.

Germany does allow the use of the term NAZI. How else should we be able to discuss our history?
Not allowed is it to show NAZI flags and symbols such as the svastika and runes used by the Nazis. Not allowed is any pro-Nazi-propaganda. Not allowed is it to publish, sell or read Hitler´s "Mein Kampf" if not for scientific purposes. Not allowed is it to use the "Hitler Gruß" and other Nazis gestures. Not allowed is it to wear Nazi-uniforms if not in a context of films etc. Not allowed is it to deny the Holocaust,

according to the following laws:

http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86.html
http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86a.html
(in German, of course)

maybe they finally started to read the IAEA reports? They being the whitehouse?

Vman @ 142:

The recently released NIE report has been in the possession of the Bush Administration for months and months. The release of this report has been blocked by VP Cheney. It's release indicating Iran halted its nuclear program back in 2003 condemns the Bush Administration to being guilty as Domestic Terrorists according to the US Patriot Act.

It is illegal to intentionally manipulate and coerce the psyche of the people or government by threatening and seeking to scare them them.

US Patriot ACT

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

The public statements of fear mongering and scare tactics used by the President and Vice President are in direct opposition to what they knew in advance was the NIE determination regarding the suspension of Iran's nuclear programs. The mushroom clouds, the threat of world war three and other statements were made to manipulate 'intimidate and coerce the US civilian population, and to influence the policy of government by intimidation and coercion.

The President and VP have repeatedly stressed an implied threat of imminent danger from Iran's nuclear weapons program, which we now know has not existed since 2003. They have been in receipt of this information and willingly and knowingly subverted and misrepresented the Iranian threat intentionally. They are by definition Domestic Terrorists.

Bush and Cheney are above the law, if you forgot. He is the Imperator, the Commander Guy, the Decider, the petulant boy-king of America.

Paul in LA,

So based on your reply at #124 we can conclude that Paul at #102 was not only not lying, he may indeed be right!

And yet, dispite the seven ways from sunday spin making the rounds, somehow I suspect that deep in some underground cavern surrounded by bats and ever present young zombies assembled to do his bidding.. A cantankcorous and deeply criminally insane Darth Cheney is whispering...
"Curses! Foiled A-gain!!!! ARRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!"

Well, makes for a nice fantasy I can laugh about... closer to the truth goes something like this...

Deep in some underground cavern surrounded by bats and ever present young Zombies asembled to do his bidding.. A cantankcorous and deeply criminally insane Darth Cheney is whispering.. hehehhe, impliment the Wolfowitz gambit my pretties HEHEHEHEHEEHEH, AH HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
unfortunately....

And I ask anyone reading, whaddoya really think is scarier.. Saw IV, 30 days of nights or the second twilight zone scenario I just posited....
Jus wonderin, it ain't a survey or nuttin......JD