Dude, Where'd That $70 Billion Go?
By Nicole Belle Thursday Jan 24, 2008 9:30amThe newswires are ablaze with word that Congress has reached agreement on a "stimulus" package. While Democrats work making the tax rebates more progressive is certainly admirable, here's the key thing you need to know - the package includes no spending on programs like unemployment insurance or food stamps, the programs that both help those getting hit hardest, and that pump money into the economy the fastest. And why weren't those programs included? Because the money was being put into this:
"Another element of the plan is a package of tax breaks for businesses that could cost as much as $70 billion, far more than had been expected, a senior House aide and a Democratic lobbyist said."
That's right, forget the middle class...let's make sure that the businesses get another tax break. Gotta love those priorities...I'm sure that the $300 check will really stimulate the economy right out of a recession.
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Dude! $300 is like a slap in the face. I mean really! Who are they kidding?
The more I see of US politics, the more fond I grow of my own politicians, even the rabid ones. (Ok, maybe not the jerkoff that claimed Pol Pots ideas in Khambodia, was a daring social experiment)
well.. id on't completely agree.. but from what i heard on Cspan.. the stimulus package is to make sure that lower end businesses get the money, to insure that they use it to promote their business.. instead of a bigger business getting it in order to get more money to save. I think it's in a better direction.. though that 300 would help me a bit.
$300.00 is what Al Qaeda, Saddamists and Baathists get every month from the US in the form of cash stipends.
Yep. We're getting the Dead Ender Deluxe.
-GSD
I am really starting to dislike the Democratic Party. Makes me wonder whether Ralph Nader was actually wrong...
$300 will keep a family in toilet paper for a year, so as long as Bush can keep us Americans from wiping our asses with our bare hands, you know, ay-rab style, then he's doing us a favor. Mission accomplished!
Add it to our national debt. Let our kids pay for it.
This will do nothing. Once again, ignoring the REAL reason for economic downturn..BANKS. They have been loaning mortgages to people that could not afford them for years. SOMEBODY has to pay it back. It's this way all over too. I just watched a young couple "buy" a house across the road from me. She doesn't work, he works as a crane operator for a local company that pays him $14/hour (I know for sure). The house the bank loaned them the money to buy was $200,000!!! They cannot afford that, I don't care how frugal they are. The payments will be almost 2 grand a month, without taxes (which are high where I live).............now, what's wrong with the economy? Easy to see.
oh wait... they said tax cut.. not rebate... That's the problem.. I thought something different.
I'd have been a lot happier if Congress had decided to TAKE that same $70 billion from the wealthiest Americans and put it into programs to benefit all Americans, or even SCHIP. Congress can't afford to spend money without having enough come into the US treasury to pay off our astronomical debt. THAT's the fricking elephant in our faces. And somehow I knew the Democrats would do something to benefit voters before elections without having the money on hand to pay for it.
Will those "rebates" be taxed the next year?
Yesterday I read a similar article panning the stimulus plan for screwing the middle class by helping the poor and I was pissed at the writer. Now Sirota's post is revealing (to me) the break businesses are going to get... GAHHH!! Isn't the point of a "free market" to reward good business planning and to dump the rotten tomatoes? Isn't the government supposed to serve ALL the people, not just prop?
I'm so sick of the poison pills in our federal laws...
This Dem Congress is becoming a huge disappointment.
With our current leadership in the house and senate, who needs Republicans?
ConcernedCanuck @ 8:
I believe you are correct... the way private businesses been running their businesses.. like banks have been very EXTREMELY irresponsible with their loaning.. not to mention the rules they use to create loan out of actual money.
Don't forget, the last round of $300 checks and tax cuts helped create the healthy and robust economy we enjoy today.
Yeah, but you don't understand. It's harder for the wealthy to suffer. /snark
Pawsie @ 14:
Exactly, and how are the banks rewarding their CEO's for the mess they've created? Billions in "bonuses"......ya, you screwed up, but here ya go.......Come on!!
$300 is an insult. When you are living on the edge from paycheck to paycheck about to go under $300 won fix anything. This isn't about helping people. It is a bandaid on a gaping wound. They keep lowering rates to keep the market afloat and have to do it again and again. Unless they send us $300 every two weeks to keep us afloat I don't see how this solves anything.
I would sure like to know why any youth today would pay 50,000 a year for college, when what they teach them has nothing to do with USA unrealistic money system. Everything I learned in economics has no basis in todays schemes and ripoffs. Nothing you could possibly learn could benefit a young person today except if they want to become an alcoholic. The entire system is broken, why not everyone buy Chinese made toys and act crazy so you can get SSDI.
Dave @ 5:
Why did you think he was wrong to begin with...?
I bet if you look at the fine print, its nothing more than an "advance" . . . I'm sure we'll be taxed for the "capital gains".
This should be called:
Its An Election Year And We Know You're Pissed Off So Here's Some Money Bill
my solution how about raising taxes 1% across the board and hire about 5 million new federal employees to start rebuilding our failing infrastructures, and proceeding onto green sources of energy?
Who could have imagined another 70 billion in corporate welfare?
We knew from the start that shrub would have asked for this bailout as a stand alone measure if he had the time left in office to fight for it.
Shrub cares nothing about the problems of truly poor people.
Rush to War @ 19:
Talking about money is like talking about religion. You try to tell someone that virgin birth is impossible and they look at you like you're crazy.
When it comes to some of that money going to businesses, it is more important to know what kind of businesses it will go to. I don't doubt that it will probably be funneled mostly to big businesses that don't need it, but were it to go to small businesses owned by a person or a family, that would be good. Those are the types of businesses we need most, as they are actually a part of the community that they do business in, and they are the businesses that will be first and most affected by an economic downturn.
But the whole thing is a crock to begin with. The government does not have this money to "give". They're borrowing it and handing it out. Every penny of it will have to be paid back, with interest. The self-congratulatory smugness of the politicians sickens me. Look at them smile while they steal from our old age, children, and grandchildren to buy bread and circuses. They might as well have just co-signed a new credit card for every filer in America, because that is, in effect, what they did anyhow.
The Country He Inherited, The Country He Leaves Behind.
$9.2 Trillion Debt on our Children
Unprecedented Tax Cuts for the Rich
Iraq: 11 Billion a month
Make these war profit connections clear and documented. Make the repubs explain their relationships with Blackwater, Halliburton and
the likes. Get them on record to discuss how much they have made. Set the real talking points.
Any Administration or Congressman from any political party that:
abuses power, our Constitution, our Justice System, breaks laws, enables corrupt corporate lobbyists, politicizes national security, misleads & divides our Nation, lies to citizens, starts preemptive wars, blocks oversight, profiteering investigations, smears Generals & Veterans, sacrifices our Military, withholds reports & evidence, bankrupting our Treasury, guts our environmental & health laws, Soc. Security, manipulates elections, energy prices, stifles dissent, our media & scientists, uses religion & race to divide our Country, exhibits signs of fascism, refuses to be under under oath and enables profiteering on our people --Will be held accountable.
jackpine savage @ 25:
mhj555 @ 23:
About the time these checks arrive, local merchants will all begin to increase their prices. This is a shell game that is impossible to win.
Invest in making yourself more energy self-sufficient even if that means solar powering your cell phone.
Let's say everyone who receives a check spends the whole amount the week they get it. When all is said and done, will gas be cheaper? Will food be cheaper? Will people who have already lost their homes be better off? Will people who are in the process of losing their homes be better off? I don't think so.
jackpine savage @ 25:
Throwing money at a failing business is a waste of time, no matter whether it be corporate, or Mom and Pop's Diner.
Plus the IRS is already complaining that they can't handle the extra work and checks may not get out until June anyway, and there may be lots of mistakes...
Janet @ 18:
I agree. A check for $300 changes nothing. It is more of a bribe or a simple token to satisfy the voters. The U.S. economic problems laying just under surface remain. Already we are seeing commodity prices rise (I.E. coffee, cotton, wheat, etc.) due in large part to the recent Fed interest rate cuts. Obviously, this will translate into increased price inflation later on. The $300 tax rebate check solves nothing and may in fact make things worse down the road.
Sadly most of this money will be spent at Wal-Mart. After all the checks have been sent out, watch for Wal-Mart to report a big increase in sales about a month later.
pissed off patricia @ 28:
If your mortgage payment is in arrears, and your credit cards are piling up, a couple hundred dollars will do nothing. So, what is the real goal of this rebate? Most people will use it to pay bills. Who benefits? Mr. Corporation once again.
Ah, the "magic" of the free market.
So this is what happens when you deregulate lending/banking and let corporations establish the moral compass setting. Hmmmm.
And welfare is bad if it helps poor people but good if it helps the rich. Hmmmm.
Wow. Who knew?
F@#$ this "Democratic" Congress! Every day is another sell out. Is there anything a Republican Congress would have done differently this past year?
fiver @ 35:
"F@#$" wasn't supposed to be a link....?...
This morning on Washington Journal (c-span) they were asking callers how they would spend the check. One guy said he had already spent half of it because he bought groceries yesterday, filled up his car with gas and bought a couple cans of paint.
That's exactly right. This money will pay for those sorts of things for maybe two weeks, but then what? After that the average American will be right back where he or she is today.
I've been a Democrat my whole adult life and I am so disgusted with the Democratic Party. We have two DINO's running for Prez and we have Harry Reid & Nancy Pelose, two more Dino's as leaders in our Senate and House. There will be no changes coming anytime in the near future. Unfortunately, our corporate media has so manipulated this election process completely eliminating the best Democrat, John Edwards, from the stage that we will be stuck with Not ready for Prime Time Obama or the continuing Billary Drama. We are all just players in this very Dark Comedy and I'm just disgusted with it all.
I know this is a crazy idea, but how about the treat the actual causes of the recessions instead of just getting at the symptoms... Get out of the war, invest in fixing the infrastructure of the country, invest in universal healthcare, good paying jobs and public transportation...
fiver @ 36:
"F@#$" links us all.
pissed off patricia @ 37:
If it is lead based paint, it will last a long time unless the kids and pets starting eating it.
Sam @ 39:
Commie!
:)
No money for Iraq for a month would be a good start. About Edwards--he is not out yet! VOTE EDWARDS on Super Tuesday. And while I'm thinking of the other 2, they should have gone to Washington yesterday to vote on the FISA bill. It was the most important thing they could have done to at least try to convince us that they want to work FOR US.
I keep hearing that the next big problem for banks is going to be credit card debt. People are charging on their card, but they cannot pay the bills. If you are squeezing out money for food and such, credit card bills are not a big priority. To me, the way people are allowed to run up credit card debt is comparable to the way they have been given over their head mortgages.
But I think it's a wonderful idea. We borrow the money from the Chinese, with my kids and grandkids being stuck with the payments, so I can go to Wal-Mart and buy stuff made in China.
Wish I was smart enough to go to Congress.
seevee @ 42:
Haha...guilty as charged....
pissed off patricia @ 44:
My daughter is in first year college and has never had a full time job in her life yet. She applied for a Student Credit Card with a limit of $500. They sent her one, with $2500 limit.
pissed off patricia @ 44:
I agree. Bankruptcies due to credit card use will increase and make matters worse for the banking system. We may see at some point bank closures or bank runs like those seen in Argentina. People will use the $300 check to pay off some of that debt but it will do little good because the massive amount of monetary expansion that we are currently seeing will drive prices of many goods up further.
pissed off patricia @ 44:
It just is so frustrating.
Your post got me to thinking...what would happen if everyone with a credit card went out and maxed them out....then refused to make any payments.
I know, I know...we'd all be screwed....but...
And of course, those rebate checks won't count as taxable income next year, eh?
In the year 2000 when Bill handed the reins over the Georgie Boy, Bill made the statement - "with a surplus of money, pay down the national debt". Georgie Boy went on a spending spree - he acted like there was no tomorrow. The budget soon became GW's playground after Bill and Al worked 8 years to balance the budget. What an ass GW is.
Now the Saudi's are buying our banks. We are not being bought by other banks - we are being bought by foreign GOVERNMENTS. What a can of worms that is! We have sold our birthright, thanks to Bush. Now our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will have to clean up Georgie Boy's mess. 2 genarations!! Woe is me.
They should also reinstate the windfall profits tax -RETROACTIVELY (hey, if they can do it with immunity...)
So the repugnacans are against socialisim, like handing out tax dollars to everyone in sight, unless they are for it. Not to mention the free market handouts to corporations.
ConcernedCanuck @ 47:
That's frightening. Hopefully she is wise enough to not get caught in the trap they have set for her. My niece wasn't so smart and got herself into a hell of a mess. She got hooked on the power of the card and I doubt she will ever be able to break the habit or be out of debt.
There is a Master Card ad running now that reminds those with their card that they can use them to buy food. In some sense, an ad like that should be illegal. If people start charging every damned thing, they will become slaves to the banks for a long long time.
While I'm sure this is wishful thinking, but now that more people are suffering economically, maybe there will be some understanding that people live everyday worrying about where the next meal will come from, or have to decide between food and medicine.
Also, people should not be able to get cars without a credit check. People who are broke end up with a new Escalade and no way to pay for it. While they should think more about their finances, it shouldnt be so readily available to them...
If you want change then people have to make their point heard, but in the case of the masters of the universe in banking, we're sure not going to do it on blogs. You can however do it through the power of the purse. Just stop buying junk you really don't need for a few months months. Just food and fuel. Catch up on paying your bills and forget any unnecessary expenditures like movies, eating out or clothes shopping. As if many haven't started that already, but money and profit is all these people in government and banking ever understand. When thier bottom lines shrink, and when taxes on the sales of things begins to disappear then they will take notice and perhaps come to understand that we're all fed up with gettin
pissed off patricia @ 54:
Let me put it this way. Her last credit card statement, she owed almost $1500 of which her nice parents are considering paying off.
Dramatization of a shrub co. stimulus package:
You say your boat is sinking? Here let me hand you this anvil. That'll help. Well it helps the anvil sales people. And isn't that what really matters?
Hmmmm it seems we've sent all our customers to the bottom. Whoops.
the entire stimulus plan is a joke...there is no quick fix to our economic problems
the entire plan is all smoke and mirrors and i for one am sick of both the dems and the repugs
I'm pretty sure that I'll have to give my $300 to Blue Cross. They just informed me that they'll need another $1400 a year for my $6600 deductible health policy.
pissed off patricia @ 55:
So true. And the credit card companies do not need to do such advertising, I see it
happening each and every time I go to the store for groceries; people sliding their
credit cards into the slot and charging the costs...and I'm talking about the Express
Lanes where only 10 or less items are permitted. And, of course, I am not aware of
exactly what interest rate is on those cards or if the user is paying off his/her balance
each month to avoid, but if not, it is resulting in most assuredly an increase in debt
to the credit card companies. Does not make sense to me for a person to charge
$6.78(or whatever small amt.) for groceries on a credit card,not pay it off and will ithen incur an additional obligation of the interest thereon. Sad, but true.
One nice thing about gas will soon be four dollars a gallon is if you're being driven crazy, you won't make your destination.
In todays trashed economy, the only silver bullet left comes from a brewery in Denver Colorado.
ysbaddaden @ 64:
And it's on a fast moving freight train to no where.
Avid Reader @ 24:
Lizards do it...
Thats what the government is going to say about the tax rebates when we horde it away or spend it to vacation somewhere else!
If you want change then people have to make their point heard, but in the case of the masters of the universe in banking, we're sure not going to do it on blogs. You can however do it through the power of the purse. Just stop buying junk you really don't need for a few months months. Just food and fuel. Catch up on paying your bills and forget any unnecessary expenditures like movies, eating out or clothes shopping. As if many haven't started that already, but money and profit is all these people in government and banking ever understand. When thier bottom lines shrink, and when taxes on the sales of things begins to disappear then they will take notice and perhaps come to understand that we're all fed up with getting the short end of the financial stick. Either level the playing field for all or dump the Federal Reserve system which for nearly 100 years has done nothing other than creating inflation by creating money out of thin air. It would make more sense to pull in the reins of our personal spending and let the country go into a recession, because then the excesses can be wrung out in order to start a new cycle again. This time hopefully with a sound monetary system in place.
The formula is really simple. Stop buying junk you don't really need for the next three to four months. With forclosures increasin, less property taxes being paid, less sales taxes being collected the morons in Washington might finally get the message. Enoughy is enough. You can do a better job of leveling the playing field for all by getting rid of the Federal Reserve because if they think a check for $300 is going to jump start anything we a truely lost and this economy, what little there is left of it is going down like the Titanic.
Doggiebobo @ 62:
Now hold on a sec... my bank actually charges me a fee if I use my debit card as a (gasp) debit card. So I'll go the grocery store and buy $8 worth of stuff but to avoid a fee I have to 'charge' it and not 'debit' it. I know there's got to be a scam running somewhere for this to work, but y'know... All I'm saying is that not everyone who 'charges' it, is really charging it.
That said, I agree with every poster here who says credit cards are fugging up America. The best thing to do is not use 'em.
ConcernedCanuck @ 58:
I guess she's lucky her parents are so nice. If she were my child, I would let her deal with what she's gotten herself into so that she could see the pain and agony of debt. Hopefully she would be a fast learner and not get herself in this mess again.
That's just my point of view and since she isn't my child, I have no business doing anything but expressing an opinion. :)
So, they're going to send my family a refund check to cover the cost of health insurance for about 1 1/2 months. Gee guys, thanks. That'll stimulate the economy all right. The insurance companies get a double benefit. I can afford to pay my premium AND they get a tax break. Maybe some families will use this $ to buy a month's worth of gas and groceries. WOW! We are so lucky!
I'm hoping to get a job next week. I'll be taking a 40% drop in pay, just to make sure my family has health insurance (which won't kick in for 3 months and my employer will only pay 80% of MY premium - we'll still have to come up with the $ for the rest of the family - which will basically be the rest of my paycheck).
You just gotta love those republicans and the assholes in congress who pander to the lobbyists. We the PEOPLE need lobbyists. Too bad we can't afford them. I'm so disgusted with this country. The irony that the "moral" party is so immoral is enough to make my head explode.
pissed off patricia @ 70:
Oh no, Opinion noted and considered. She has been struggling financially. Hard lesson that one can't teach without experiencing it. BUT. With that said, I'll be damned if those vultures are going to bleed more money than they deserve.
It's so devious it's brilliant. $70 billion tax cut handout to business = higher earnings = larger bonus to already overpaid CEOS. Couple hundred bucks for you and me = straight into our gas tanks (to drive to our job which will soon be outsourced to China) = more record oil company profits. Stimulus to economy, minimal. Debt burden to next generation- crushing.
Republicans have been and always will be corporate thieves and robber barons. Democrats, the only known mammals without a backbone.
Bud @ 69:
I hear ya Bud and understand why your might "charge" rather than use the debit
card process and I assume you pay off the balance monthly to avoid the add on interest.
But those who are not able, and let's say their interest rate is 18 or more precent, then
those are the ones who will continue to suffer the consequences of balances upon which
interest will be added and the problem is just compounded and goes on and on and on.
Ali @ 71:
The congress critters are supposed to be our lobbyists. We pay them to speak for us. That's why we need to fire them the next time they ask for our vote. Their work has been unsatisfactory.
ConcernedCanuck @ 72:
Perhaps you could pay the debt, but she would understand that she will pay you back over some period of time.
Sorry guys, but one-time business tax breaks are exactly what is needed to stimulate an economy (e.g. one time tax credits or accelerated depreciation on new investments). Businesses respond to one time cuts with new investment which stimulates the economy.
One time cuts to individuals just don't work as well. People tend to save the money. Since the consumer is debt laden, I don't think it's a bad idea to give a windfall to them, but you shouldn't criticize the business tax breaks.
pissed off patricia @ 70:
POP: I'm with you on this, BUT(as I think many will agree) we parents are desireous
of our children "having it better than we", so we are inclined to bail them out (if able)when they become over indebted. Spare the rod and spoil the child, soooo typical
of us parents.
Weaseldog @ 66:
Lizards look at you like you're crazy? Duuude what kind of tequilla you drinkin'?
Evil @ 77:
You should read Paul Krugman's column today: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/opinion/25krugman.html?ref=opinion
Evil @ 77:
Are you serious? That is, "people tend to save the money." Are you really thinking that
if/when a $300 rebate is received, the majority of receipants will SAVE it?
Evil @ 77:
If they are going to leave in place the destructive inflationary polices that create the problem to begin with, then bandaids won't be enough.
ysbaddaden @ 79:
Ever have a lizard not look at you squint eyed?
Doggiebobo @ 78:
She'll pay it back. She is actually very good with her money. Her tuition is paid with her savings...saved every nickel herself working 2 part time jobs while going to high school....wish more were like her.....so I don't have a problem bailing her out....I know she will pay it back
Sam @ 39:
And cancel Warpig's tax cuts.
And raise the cap on Social Security.
Dude I can relate:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/wall-street-ceo-is-charged-...
Weaseldog @ 83:
Most of the lizzards I know personally, just "roll" their eyes at me.
ConcernedCanuck @ 58:
Teach her to pay it off every month,on time, like a utility bill. That way she uses them to build credit and they get nothing from her.
I think the stimulus plan is dumb and reactionary. There is a lot of irony in the plan.
What has been driving the economy the last seven years? Mostly consumer spending, which normally is only one third (I think) of a health economy. What have folks been spending? Money they don't have, in the form of credit cards, inflated property equity, etc. So essentially they haven't been spending what they have... they have only been creating debt.
What does the government hope we will do with the checks? Spend them of course. And where is the money coming from? Debt of course.
U.S personal savings rate was negative last year. I don't blame the government, banks, or credit card companies for that.... I blame the guy I see in the mirror. Just because the marketing has been very effective at convincing us we need everything and can have everything, doesn't absolve me of paying attention to the simple logic of "nothing is free".
Just a crazy idea but how about we (as individuals) accept the reality of the slumping economy, and individually begin focusing on getting our personal 'house' in order.
I agree with getting out of Iraq will save a bundle but it won't do jack for us now or in the near future. It will only reduce the speed of the burden we are inflicting on the future.
I don't get a paycheck. I get a disability check. I don't even qualify for the $300 check. Kids do. Not disabled. Not retired. But kids do.
See, it's cause my rent, electricity, gas, internet, food, and stuff aren't contributing to the economy. Only people with jobs contribute. The rest of us are just taking up space and valuable resources.
Hey, there's an idea! Just line up all us 'useless' types and give us a big Valentine's Day "party," Chicago style. Just think of how much that will ease the burden on those poor billionaires and multi-nationals. It would certainly lower health care costs. Instead of a Logan's Run style age cut-off, there could be an earning potential level threshold and medical cost-effective studies to determine who stays and who "makes the cut."
Bitter? Me? Nah.
oooooh The preznit is going to speak in a few moments and lets us all know that everything is okay. His corproate lackies are going to get more in the way of tax breaks and the trickle down theory will be put to the test and fail yet again. No doubt the markets will tank as they always do after he and Paulson speaks.
stfreak @ 89:
I agree with you, but at the same time, people buy into the ads. Its a cultural problem that needs to be changed. Not saying that there should be advertisements, but at the same time, people shouldnt be able to borrow against the value of their house, and there should be credit checks before someone can get a car. Also, if people do make mistakes and overextend themselves, they shouldn't be left to figure it all out by themselves and end up with a foreclosure on their house, and credit card bills that are astronomical. There should be avenues to help them. There shouldbe better education about controlling spending.
There is no help for the disabled like me that are forced to live on welfare for 3 years while they are awaiting the social security disability insurance that they paid for. A welfare system that was slashed by Clinton and has not had its benefits increased in probably over 15 years. Thanks for nothing democrat "representatives".
Just continue the War on the Poor. That's their solution.
Like I said, Booooosh opens his mouth and the Dow drops 60 points like clock work and while we're at it understand that he wants to also protect us by continuing to spy on us and giving his friends at the telecoms immunity for breaking the law. What a great country.....that is if you live in a bananna republic. By the way, oil is past $90 a barrel again and going higher. You'll need that tax rebate just to fill up your tank for the week.
I was thinking about this a lot this week, especially after the anniversary of Roe v Wade, because there were tons of anti-choice people in DC, where I live. Anyway, its not in the Republicans interest to get rid of abortion completely (granted they have done a lot to make it difficult, but still it is technically legal), because then they would lose that whole voting base. One of those huge issues would disappear. And maybe that is happening here too. Its not in the Dems interest to really do right by working class people, because if they really help people out, they lose one of their main talking points and they will have to figure out new issues to run on.
Does that make sense? I mean all politicians want is the power and the sweet job, so why not keep the people who will vote for you in the same position, and tell them its the other side's fault that things aren't changing. That's why I feel like 3rd party candidates are important and can help to set the debate for real change.
I'm strongly considering donating any "rebate" (read: loan from China) I get to the first Presidential candidate to condemn this ridiculous plan.
You could always spring for a pair of the new "Air Jordans". They're a mere $230!
It's becoming clear that a bunch of trading desks on wall street are now driving our government policy. Maybe that was always true, but take a look a recent events:
- The Fed dropped the rate 3/4 simply because over seas markets sank. Now they are forced to drop another 3/4 of a point next week because that is what wall street wants. Like a whinning baby who always gets what it wants. It's clear now that Fed is going to overshoot creating a bad inflationary situation down the road. The low interest rates are going to crank up housing ARM's again - we'll be right back where we started, just now with even more cheap money chasing even worse investments.
- Wall Street only cares about the next quarter which is why the stimulus package looks the way it does. If there is no "recession" outside of housing then this action too is highly inflationary. Of course we are borrowing money to pay for this - that too adds to inflation pressures. If the situation really is bad, then the relief is necessary; but if the recession talk turns out to be a cheap ploy, then look out down the road.
- Nothing is being done to correct our real problem which is making bad investments - both in the private sector and public sector. Reversing this trend is our only hope and you do not accomplish this by simplying lowering interests rates to a ridiculously low level.
Sam @ 92:
I agree, we need better education on these issues. However, I can say from my own experience that I found a lot of information online and at the library (books, magazines, and resource tri-folds, etc). I also am not uncomfortable discussing these financial issues with my friends or people I meet. I think of it a lot like encouraging folks not to smoke or drink too much. We all need a little help from time to time. I push my friends to save first, plan ahead, and pay off debt when ever possible. I also encourage them to take financial risks only when they have strong back up plans (been in their job over a year and have no reason to suspect the place is in trouble, stash of 3 months or more of 'living' money, etc). A couple of times, friends and family have made a wrong or bad decision (it happens), I stay away from "I told you so", etc and instead help around the house, invite them over for dinner(s), loan money when necessary with no expectation of return. Shit happens... you can piss and moan or you can adjust and move on.
I'm a cheap bastard, so I like to do my best to understand everything about the item or issue I'm about to take on. As an example, credit cards. I look at 20-30 before I make my selection. I'm usually looking for the best gimmick I can take advantage of with the lost cost or risk. I will stick with that card until the gimmick is used up and then I dump it and move on. I work very hard to not carry a balance, figuring out each month how much I can afford to spend and then everything possible goes on the card to work the gimmick. Basically I figure the credit card company is making enough off my purchases (percentage of sales) and I refuse to give them interest, finance charges or late fees. If I screw up and I'm late a day (eating late fees), I am usually quite pissed... at myself. My goal - if possible be a loss leader for any business. I have a bank account I barely keep anything in that moves from bank to bank. Everytime they send me another letter saying "Here's $100 if open an account at our bank... only stay with us 6 months" I'm usually there six months and one day or until I find another deal.
My examples are probably pretty poor as I'm sure few folks are as willing to take the time to use the marketing against the 'sender'.
You have to keep in mind that giving the money to business will help them expand and grow, which means more jobs, which puts money into the economy. Besides, these people on food stamps and unemployment are not paying taxes anyway so we are really just giving them someone else's money.
anon @ 93:
Sorry that you are disabled. Is such disability physical or mental? Probably the latter
since Bill Clinton(and the Dems) are per usual once again to blame; even tho when he
was in office, the Congress was controlled by the Repugs, but that fact is being ignored
as is the case with the Repugs cutting benefits to our fine Veterans.
remember the shock doctrine... watch what the repubs push through as a result of the fear of a bad economy.
Don't trust them....
Oh please. He did it once before and just trying to do it again.
$300 is a drop in the bucket while there's massive corporate welfare checks. Did you seriously think it was going to be any different?
The moment I read that there was a stimulus package, I instantly knew that the rich top 1% was simply getting a bonus. No ifs ands or buts.
Proof that this shit doesn't work points back to the previous stimulus packages and the governance of this dumbshit administration.
Bud @ 69:
Very true, you have to use that cc wisely. For years now I have used my cc for practically everything-and paid it off in full at the end of the month. They are not using me, I am using them. Frequent flyer miles rock. Free airfare to Europe is even better.
raye @ 105:
Agreed. Good luck on obtaining free flights to Europe. The major airlines "may" have
two seats on their flights, about each 6 months or so if reservations made and accepted that far in advance. Those "free flights" are a sham and just another way of the credit
card companies putting out false/misleading info. I know, I have attempted to take
advantage and found it almost an impossibility to obtain seating.
Doggiebobo @ 106:
I've done it and gotten flights, so I know it works. Now they will charge ridiculous fees for everything else, but $100 in fees still is good for a round-trip ticket overseas.
You can't even get free television broadcasts anymore. If you want decent reception you have to buy cable or satellite.
Well when it was going to be $800, I was going to get a new chinese refrigerator to replace the undependable one I have.
But since I can't keep milk and I haven't seen the dentist in three years, I had a tooth with a filling chip partially off. A crown would be $564, and I could have gotten that with the $600. If I get a temporary filling and an office visit with x-rays that ought to run about $290, but I can't wait until May. The dentist demands cash and I have no credit since I've been in chapter 13 for 14 months.
I'll have to postpone that 800 mile trip to see my 80 year-old mother that I haven't made since March last year, if they'll give me the time off later this year. My truck is going on 6 years old and wouldn't make it for sure anyway. My home is financed for 150% of it's value and I won't be able to get a new vehicle for at least 36 months. In the meantime I hope none of my family who all live near mom dies because I hate to have to beg one of my sisters for money to travel to the funeral.
At least I can get a months supply of generic paxil for $10 a month.
I say FUCK Nancy and George if they think the amount of money they spend on one lunch is going to make a dammed bit of difference in my or anyone elses' life!
The vast majority of that 300$ is going to go to paying bills to corporations. This is Bush's way of giving money to the corporations, while looking like he's helping out the little guy, or trying at least. This is corporate welfare disguised as a tax credit.
I would be happy with even $300. I initially saw the numbers and thought we would get $1800 (family with two kids) but then realized we do not meet the requirements of even the partial payment. Oh well, I was going to buy gold with it anyway.
Most people are going to buy stuff made in China with the money we had to borrow from China in the first place. What a disaster. In the end the "stimulus" is nothing more than buying votes for the democrats and republicans and adding even more debt to the mountain we already have. It won't do a thing because it does not address the fundamental issues with our unsustainable economy and society.
Since the poorest people (those on foodstamps or living assistance, etc.) are getting completely shafted by this package, I think it is time to start a protest and everyone who is in the middle-class or above should put the money into savings. Expanding the foodstamps program would be one of the highest bang-for-the-buck measures they could take to provide stimulus, because those people would be spending it on necessities. I suspect most middle class Americans will just put the money into their own debt rather than going out and buying something, especially if they're only getting $300 or so. It certainly wouldn't make a difference at all in my spending habits.
Is anyone else with me? Let's tell Congress and Bush to give *real* stimulus to the people who need it the most by putting our rebate checks into savings.
Another poorly researched statement, apparently intended to bash corporations:
That’s right, forget the middle class…let’s make sure that the businesses get another tax break. Gotta love those priorities…I’m sure that the $300 check will really stimulate the economy right out of a recession.
http://www.nytimes.com/inc_com/inc1201190613732.html?ref=smallbusiness
Small business owners generally are middle class. Furthermore, their businesses are driving new employment.
The rebate checks will lessen the effects of a recession, making it less deep and/or shorter in duration, while giving assistance to small businesses will actually help pull us out of a recession. Arbitrarily bashing this aspect of the bipartisan stimulus package is ludicrous.
ysbaddaden @ 108:
It's on the internet....you have to pay for the internet, but there are websites (wink, wink) where you can watch ANY and ALL television you want......movies too......I luvs the net.
.
STIMULUS PACKAGE = PAY OFF
Keep the people satisfied and distracted, what can they complain about?
WHO'S FUNDING THE 4 TRILLION DOLLAR INCREASE IN THE DEFICIT?
WHO'S FUNDING THE FOLLY IN IRAQ THAT CONGRESS ENDORSES?
WHO'S FUNDING THE STIMULUS PACKAGE TO KEEP AMERICANS QUITE?
I make less than 20k per year, single, and will get $300.00
That doesn't even pay my rent!
AMERICANS ARE BEING ROBBED and RAPED BY THEIR GOVERNMENT
.
The stimulus plan is an insane solution to our ailing economy.
It merely takes the money out of the Bank of Taxes that originate from those that paid into it and put it back in the hands of the consumers. This is not new money but barrowed money that in the long run consumers will eventually pay it in deferred taxes for generations to come.
Who benefits from these barrowed money? The industries, the manufacturing companies, the retail industries. IT IS MERELY TO SUBSIDIZED THE LOSSES OF BUYING POWER OF THE DOLLAR TO SUPPLY THE BOTTOM LINE PROFIT OF THOSE CORPORATIONS, RETAILER, AND ADVERTISING FOR GOODS SOLD TO THE CONSUMER.
IT IS A TEMPORARY CYCLICAL FLOW OF DEVALUED DOLLARS ON THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO CONSUMES AND THOSE NEED IT TO STAY IN BUSINESS TO SELL THOSE GOODS.
-------------------------------
RATE OF WAGES MUST BE CORRECTED IN PROPORTION TO SUPPORT THE AILING ECONOMY AND TO CATCH UP WITH THE INFLATIONARY LEVEL.
The stimulus package POLICY designed by the current Congress and the Bush Regime........IS..........merely a temporary FIX long enough at best; to last for the next Administration to take over. Like Bush has said in the past....."I will let the next president decide to get us out of IRAQ, it will not happen in my watch". He made the mess we are in and he will let the next administration clean it up.
AND THE CONGRESS/SENATE has it's role in making the disaster to continue. The root cause of are in the policy that drove this nation into an illegal war in IRAQ, and Congress/Senate voted for it and continue to wage the WAR and occcupation in IRAQ. Both Democrats and Republics and those that backed the action.
Just some thoughts (disclaimer: I've never studied economics except to barely pass that class in high school) as I read through the article/thread.
My understanding of the stimulus plan is that, of people who qualify, people who earned under $3000 will get $300; others can get up to $600 ($1200 for working couples), and then a minimum of $300 for kid. And then the tax cuts for businesses. A lot of people seem very unsatisfied; wondering, what would you change? (I'm actually curious, not snarky, here). Would you raise the 600/1200 limit that most people will have? Give more to people who earned $3000 last year? Apparently the Dems dropped the food stamps and unemployment "in exchange for gaining the rebates of at least $300 for almost everyone earning a paycheck" - was that a bad call, and it would have been better to insist on stamps/unemployment in exchange for the $300 checks? Would you have left out the business tax cuts? Or would your solution not involve giving money to people at all?
As a short-term stimulus plan, I think this will probably work. Maybe for a few weeks - even two months, for some people, and then we'll probably be back where we started.
Max-1 @ 115:
How much taxes do you pay on that $20,000?? exactly, $300.00 is a gift, take is a pipe down..
chris @ 118:
See,
It isn't that I should look at it as a gift and shut the fu(k up and pipe down. (thanks Chris for proving my point)
I feel for families who get even less per individual.
It's that this money is supposed to be spent so as to keep the middle class somewhat happy.
Doesn't anyone recall Bush, "Support the troops, GO SHOPPING!"
This is asinine logic, at best.
.
You are absolutely correct...
Futhermore this "stimulus" is a bailout for the business industries if it works and if those receiving the tax "rebate" actually spend it......I repeat ACTUALLY spend the tax rebate. And only if they spend it just as quickly as they receive it.
The government is gambling with the taxpayer's federal treasury (taxes). No one is talking about what could happen if consumer banks the money instead of spending it. It will not stop the downward spiral to recession; particularly when the inflation is going out of control....gas prices are increasing and are expanding to other industries.
The devalued dollar, the rising rate of inflation, the record deficits, the stagnant wages, the rising cost of medical care; and the deteriorating infa-structures; and the brewing frustrations in our community throughout this nation on top of the losing confidences of our international economic partners WILL eventually cause the greatest depression. Why would it be the "GREATEST" depression?.....Because thanks to the Bill Clinton's NAFTA, and Bushes other open nation trade agreements......., this devestating deppression IF NOT prevented soon and correctly has an INTERNATIONAL effects.
Brace yourself! The corporate CEO's and Government will be RESPONSIBLE for this collapse and the PEOPLE will SUFFER for allowing them to take us to the WRONG PATH and their ROLE in not putting a STOP to all these madness and by VOTING the way they did in the past.
chris @ 118:
You are absolutely correct…
Futhermore this “stimulus” is a bailout for the business industries if it works and if those receiving the tax “rebate” actually spend it……I repeat ACTUALLY spend the tax rebate. And only if they spend it just as quickly as they receive it.
The government is gambling with the taxpayer’s federal treasury (taxes). No one is talking about what could happen if consumer banks the money instead of spending it. It will not stop the downward spiral to recession; particularly when the inflation is going out of control….gas prices are increasing and are expanding to other industries.
The devalued dollar, the rising rate of inflation, the record deficits, the stagnant wages, the rising cost of medical care; and the deteriorating infa-structures; and the brewing frustrations in our community throughout this nation on top of the losing confidences of our international economic partners WILL eventually cause the greatest depression. Why would it be the “GREATEST” depression?…..Because thanks to the Bill Clinton’s NAFTA, and Bushes other open nation trade agreements……., this devestating deppression IF NOT prevented soon and correctly has an INTERNATIONAL effects.
Brace yourself! The corporate CEO’s and Government will be RESPONSIBLE for this collapse and the PEOPLE will SUFFER for allowing them to take us to the WRONG PATH and their ROLE in not putting a STOP to all these madness and by VOTING the way they did in the past.
I did read Krugman, and I generally agree with him. He of course wants the perfectly Democratic Party bill, which will never pass by Bush. And the bill as it stands now may very well get changed in the Senate. So let's not freak out yet, because many of the points "We" want (extended food stamps and unemployment benefits) will undoubtedly brought up later. But the other thing is they did a good job of extending the benefits to lower income people. I actually heard some dick on Americablog bitching about how his $75K salary disqualified him boo hoo.
If we wrote the perfect bill, it would have lump sum payments to the poorest and one time tax credits for new investment made this year, and extensions of aid to municipalities and states.
But some stimulus is better than none, which is what we'll get (Katrina) if we try to get the perfect bill. And no it won't help us avoid recession.
Sam @ 80:
Doggiebobo @ 81:
Yes, that is absolutely the case. They will put it in their bank account. It will offset any future borrowings that they would have made anyway. This is like, lesson 101 in stimulus economics; individuals change consumption behaviors based on long term outlook of earnings and wealth, corporations and businesses look to the short term. So if you want to increase demand, A. bribe the businesses with a short term tax cut in exchange for increased investments (pretty cheap to do since it's one-time) and B. cut long term taxes on people most like to spend the money (the poor, although long-term tax cuts add up).
Since A is cheaper to do than B, that is what we usually get.
Where the Republicans have it wrong (with pre-meditation) is that they love to give windfall taxes on EXISTING investment instead of new investment. That's just plain stupid. I hope they fix the bill in the Senate.
Oh believe me, if I were President, I would just let the country go into recession and expand food stamps, unemployment benefits and aid to cities and municipalities.
Some more banks need to go under, some more hundred thousands of houses foreclosed on. If we don't feel the pain now, it will just be worse later.
Weaseldog @ 82:
So all of you don't like the dem leadership solutions? Did you get behind DK's candidacy or did you decide to go with one of those who had corporate blessings? How long have you complained about the government and how long have you swindled yourself out of your vote because the candidate who best expressed your policy positions didn’t have the:
Money
Charisma
Money
Party backing
Money
Conventional ideas
Money
Militaristic Foreign policy
Money
Money
Money
.
.
.
Oh, yeah, and telling anybody you were for Kucinich, might get some titters from your friends, so better to go with one more cookie-cutter dems that can’t even bring themselves to identify as a ‘liberal’ let alone champion liberal policies. So you get Pelosi(c)rats who have made themselves rich over their time in office and will never do anything to call into question the rights of
Money
Money
Money
..It makes the world go ‘round, the world go ‘round…
Proud American @ 121:
Brace yourself! You're right...the ceo's and neo-cons are responsible, and they're doing it on purpose, and they don't give a crap if any of us lose our jobs, lose our homes or lose our lives. That just means more money, more stuff and more power for them. We are, I'm afraid, long past the point where voting matters - we're screwed. I'm gonna' try and learn Chinese.....
tim @ 12:
Becoming? Democrats are Republicans are Democrats (more or less). The differences are slight,
with a few notable exceptions. They've forgotten they're our REPRESENTATIVES, not our leaders.
Never forget, America's was a government 'of the people, by the people, and for the people'.
Key word, was.
I do not paying taxes, but I draw the line when they fall into the bank accounts of America's richest people. If we are going to save this country, we are going to have to be realistic. A part of the reason the '40 percenters' are not saying a great deal is they have not seen the bill yet. Those in the top 5 percent do not care about the deficit, and they do so for good reason; they are not planning to pay the money themselves anyway.
Right now, we not only need good leadership, we also need solid management for every federal agency. This is where much of the tax theft has (is) taken place. There have been huge crimes committed here. So far they have gone unchecked and with little, or no accountability. The American people still live with the uncertainty that there will not be a change in government. With a continuation of republican rule, future historians may look back at this election as the last opportunity the American people had to save their country and they squandered it.
Keep my damn tax cut put it where it needs to go. But, not while these idiots are in office.
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