February 09, 2008 06:31 PM
About Nicole Belle
Mom, Wife, Media Critic/Political Analyst, Blogger, Austen Fanatic, Unapologetic Liberal
NicoleBelle@crooksandliars.com
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Um, I'm not laughing. Is this another Chris Muir's Day By Day comic strip?
That cartoon is offensive.
"I would have loved to have owned you?" Jesus wept.
Ted Rall is an asshole.
Ted Rall's biting political cartoons and more are available directly at...
http://www.rall.com/
Here's one of my favorites...
http://www.gocomics.com/rallcom/2007/12/24/
I think it's funny because it's true. It's the rather ugly skeleton in Obama's closet that his supporters won't talk about: his voting record is virtually identical to Hillary Clinton who they paint as some sort of demonic political doomsday.
That was great Nicole. Thanks for pointing out the bullshit coming from both camps. We need to all take a deep friggin' breath and chill out. NO DEM ON DEM VIOLENCE!
What the hell is this? Take this off, please.
It's utterly unfunny, and the drawing is totally offensive.
Obama was literally protesting the war in Iraq before it even started. He was marching in the streets and speaking at anti-war rallies! And, more importantly, he opposed the war for the right reasons! Who the hell thinks that he would have voted for it if he was in the Senate at the time? Preposterous!
Ted Rall, much as I have appreciated his anti-Bush fervor, has (once again) dived deep into the Nader/Paul/Reverend Billy pool of irrelevance. Fun, but ultimately counter-productive.
Oh wait, that's right. There wasn't any difference between Gore and Bush in 2000. If Justice O'Connor ruled the other way, President Gore would have invaded Iraq, tortured detainees, wiretapped without warrants, politicized the D.O.J., crippled environmental regulations, and given tax cuts to the wealthy. While ex-governor Bush would have won an Oscar and the Nobel Peace Prize. Right.
Getting a little sick of this sort of thing.
None dare question the cult of Obama! Death to Rall! Death to Rall!
There is NOTHING funny about this cartoon.
Disgusted !
Heather
Check out the washington post guy's analysis of caricatures if you want something to think about and something that's funny: click
Not funny because it's too obvious. Comedy should be subtle or surprising...except for physical comedy, which this ain't. And I find the way it's drawn kindof offensive.
Signed,
- Clinton supporter
strong on terror
Hillary/Rice 2008
#4 helloworld says: "I think it’s funny because it’s true. It’s the rather ugly skeleton in Obama’s closet that his supporters won’t talk about: his voting record is virtually identical to Hillary Clinton who they paint as some sort of demonic political doomsday."
It's neither a secret nor a skeleton in the closet that their voting records are virtually identical. What Obama can't say on the campaign trail but voters are obviously saying by their votes: We have Clinton Fatigue! It's as simple as that.
iran/contra how come nobody talks about that anymore? ronald reagan knew how to make deals with the iranians.
That last panel is what offends me, because it suggests that Obama's just siding with "popular" opinion, when his views were in the minority prior to the war. I imagine in an alternate reality, he'd be siding with the resistance fighters against the Nazis.
This is some actually relevant cartoon-stuff and its funny.
This S*%^! above is NOT. Humorless!
The cartoon is kind of funny, but it's a stretch to imply that Obama was only against the war in retrospect. He was clearly against the invasion at the time, and spoke out loudly against it. Clinton, on the other hand, tried to cover her ass and hope for the best.... not the most inspiring maneuver from a potential leader of the free world.
helloworld @ 4:
aint it the truth!
Also, their votes are not virtually identical, or Obama wouldn't be getting ahead. People were arguing that Edwards was better than both of them, and yet he voted for more pro-Bush policies than anyone.
So the Clinton supporter thinks it's funny that Clinton would have trinangulated herself into being a slave owner?
Interesting.
I saw this cartoon. Sent to me by a Clinton supporter. Didn't think it was too funny, but I suppose Rall will have to stay employed after Bush leaves...
NBC has projected Obama the winner. Woo hoo!
Ted Rall, isn't that the cartoonist who called everyone who serves in the military cold blooded murderers?
tanks but no tanks.
Ted Rall is usually funnier than this.
I see Ted Rall's drawing skills have improved remarkably. Or perhaps he just added color so he could draw Obama accurately.
Fascinating that everyone seems to have forgotten Senate Bill 433 authored by Barack obama, and introduced in January 2007. Title to said bill? "The Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007, S.433."
Nicole, hon. You're an equal opportunity offender. Good on you. This thread should be fun. Just beware of incoming cowpies.
Agree with S.G.E.W.
Voting against starting a war is not the same as voting to fund it once our troops are there.
And anyone with half a brain knew the justifications for war were bullshit at that time.
Clinton lacked the political courage to say no.
Obama had that courage.
Spinning this as "we can't know for sure how Obama would've voted" is bullshit, constructed to distract from the real issue: Clinton screwed up by pandering to right-wing jingoism.
And that happened in reality, not in theory.
Clinton supporters: How am I supposed to respect your candidate, when she won't even admit her mistakes?
I knew the justifications for war were bullshit at that time. I protested the war before it started.
filmgeek83 @ 2:
Agreed.
Paul/Belichick08 @ 8:
It's not a cult. It's a "movement"....Obama's words.
Ted Rall is still drawing cartoon things? Good for him. Perhaps someday he'll acquire a sense of humor to match his artistic acumen.
This one's much, much better.
tyree @ 16:
I never heard anyone who was informed argue that Obama and Clinton had different voting records. Their positions are EXACTLY the same. The only differences are that HRC supported the war and Obama did not. And HRC's healthcare plan would mandate everyone uses it, while Obama's would be open to those who wanted to use it.
The difference isn't in the politics....the difference is in the people. I don't think Clinton can beat John McCain because she'll unite the Republican Party, lose Independents and depress the first-time voters that Obama has attracted. As President, I don't think that HRC can get anything done because Republicans will oppose her just to oppose her (even at their own expense) and she is in debt to corporations.
I don't mean to sound cliche....but Obama is the lessor of three evils (Obama, Clinton, and McCain). I'd love to vote for Al Gore. I'd love to vote for Wesley Clark. I'd love to vote for Ron Paul. I'd love to vote for John Edwards over Clinton and McCain. But none of them are the last three standing so I choose CHANGE over the Bush/Clinton Dynasty.
Hillary has a new campaign manager
WTF? Are you hurting for things to post Nicole??
This wasn't funny at all - and actually offensive.
The funny thing is, actually Obama is half Kenyan and Caucasian.
On his kenyan side - he wouldn't have been a slave
On his Caucasian side - he would have been a slave owner - as per his genealogy.
This post is a misfire - maybe you might want to quietly pull it while you can.
Obama on 60 Minutes now.
all you lazy asses who make the blanket statements about Obama and Hillary:
here's obama's voting record
here's hillary's voting record
There ARE differences if you're willing to look.
Barak has no experience, this is not the time to get someone on training wheels.....
Really, is this funny?
Really?
Surely we can do better.
Obama opposed the war from the beginning; that said, he voted for funding because it is the responsible thing to do. You can oppose military action, disagree with the policy makers who put our uniformed men and women in harm's way, and vote to fund them because you don't want them to die due to lack of armor, weapons, etc. Have we sunk as low as the Right, where we are unable and/or unwilling to make these distinctions?
Is it really necessary to point out the stark differences between the two positions? Even to Democrats?
God I love Kucinich...
http://endinjusticenow.blogspot.com/2008/02/before-nevada-primary-dennis...
It's a shame the left is treating him the same way the right is treating Paul.
The next president will be a republican.
JUST A PREDRICTION, not a wish.
Mister Anderson @ 30:
Exactly! Both Hilary and Obama would be great presidents and both want the same things, Obama has a better chance of taking the votes away from McCain than Hilary does. So let's do the right thing to ensure a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
You've got a good thing going here at "Crooks and Liars", don't destroy it.
Take the post down.
VietVet8666 @ 39:
Ya know, my first instinct was to rant against you about how everything is aligned for the Dems. Then I remembered 2004 and teared up.
I voted for Obama, based on his better enemy recognition skills over Clinton. Here's the position of Obama as of 2002. I would say he called it pretty good.
As far as "experience" is concerned, it seems that Washington, with all its experience has gotten us entangled in a $400B boondoggle. The issue I think is all these corrupt "experienced" politicians.
While we all have our preference for a candidate for the Democratic Party we have to beware. Beware we don’t fall into the “I will never vote for whoever” trap. Both these candidates are assholes. They have to be. That is how they have gotten to where they are. We have to vote for one of them though. We have to sound like we like them. I don’t like Hill because she will be too center or right just like her husband was who I like only because the Republicans hate him so much. Barack I am not sure of. I think he will be forced to be middle of the road as well. I like his charisma. I like the way he talks. I voted for him in California. I liked Edwards better.
As 35 said. There are differences in the voting records.
As 7 said. Obama was protesting when it mattered. He did stand to pay a political cost.
I think the best test of Rall's viewpoint is to go back to 2000 and see what he said about Gore & Bush.
A finger perpetually raised to the world is not an argument.
Jr making Sr proud. It's 94 all over. Kinda sorta'
http://www.bls.gov/bdm/nj_chart1.gif
a few entries ago, John asked us to stop being abusive, especially to women.
At first, I didn't want to dignify that cartoon, but after three readings and reviewing posts in this particular, I am very, very, very, very, very, very disappointed that that cartoon was posted, especially considering the extremely hateful content. It's not political at all, just extremely racist.
I have absolutely no problem with Obama's and Hillary's vote record being almost identical. Both Senators were part of a Democrat attempt to create a solid block to fight the Repubs. As a junior Senator, I believe Barak was simply being a team player in the beginning.This is the Clinton's camp making a desperate claim to say" Obama is just as bad as we are." Anyone who suggest they are almost the same because of their voting records is flat out lying and trying to stop Barak's momentum.
Obama is the choice of the people.
Hillary is the choice of the insiders.
Who wins?
I’m heading over to a right wing blog and tell them that I don’t like McCain because he is going to offer amnesty (which I am for by the way) to every working illegal alien. I am going to tell them that I could never vote for him. I will say that he is a liberal turncoat and does not really stand up for what is conservative. I will tell them that staying home will be much better for our country than voting for him. I am doing this because I want those idiot assholes to stay home on election day just like Rush Limpdick and (M)anne Coulter and Dick Delay and the homosexual curing Jesus freak shyster what’s his name are saying they are going to do. I don’t want these right wing Republican idiots at the polls in November. Do you?
[Deleted-Sitemonitor]
random_dude @ 33:
I can tell you're not a Republican. You think too much :)
Hill is corporate America.
Barack is populist America.
Hate to break it you closeminded folks but they are both Washington Politicians.
Obama, Clinton it doesn't matter. Just get a Democrat in office because they are virtually identical.
random_dude @ 33:
So every Caucasian before... oh .... let's say 1865 were slave owners? Or even if they could not afford a slave they supported slavery? I would say you are retarded. At least an educationally impaired dipshit.
chris @ 36:
JFK had no experience either
bill clinton had no experience either
hill clinton has no experience either. First WH Decorator and Hostess is NOT experience.
You had a point?
WTF? In my best cockney accent: I don't get it.
Populists were disparaged during the 20th Century.
Didn't like corporations or, much, government.
Didn't like war.
Wanted to be left alone and not exploited.
Of course, they are stupid.
Stupid people who do not buy into the system.
Left&Left @ 48:
Even Obama said once that their goals are 95% the same...the only difference is how they feel it can/should be done. Neither one is Evil, neither one is The Answer. If you love one, you really shouldn't hate the other unless you're not looking at things objectively at all (not accusing Left&Left of that, I have no idea how s/he feels, just saying in general to the superpolarized).
Hillary voted for authorization and followed that up with vocal support for the war effort (at least until it was no longer the politically viable thing to do). Given her debate answers on the subject, it seems a certainty that she'll keep troops in Iraq indefinitely. Senator Bob Graham of Florida BEGGED her to read the NIE, but of course then she may not have maintained plausible deniability. Given the position she and Bill had within the Democratic establishment at the time, they both could have done a great deal to blunt the move towards war. They didn't. On the contrary, they have blood on their hands. Give me a break, Ted Rail. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever heard.
Drew @ 38:
kucinich was the only democrat with integrity !
CoIntelPro @ 35:
The ugly skeleton in BOTH THEIR CLOSETS IS LIEberman!
John@51 Man, the psychology of jealously never ceases to amaze me. Instead of hating on Obama and insulting the millions of people who truly think he is the best candidate to come along in many years, maybe you should direct your anger towards Hillary, McCain, or Huckabee for being so bland and dull. I really think they too are at fault for failing to excite their following.
tyree @ 61:
and his disappearance is my biggest disappointment of this election cycle. I still voted for him in my primary, as I promised myself I would. My next choice, Edwards, is, of course, also out of the running.
Burney @ 37:
Do you really think defunding the war would cause troops to die from lack of armor? You sound like Bill Kristol and every other neocon chickenhawk, Obama voted for the funding because it was easier politically, period.
Some of you need to realize that your golden boy Obama is just another politician.
S.G.E.W. @ 7:
since Obama embrasses Ted Kennedy and John Kerry he likely would have been persuaded with the majority to vote for the war.
It's easy to say he did not vote for it. Obama was not a Senator then, and not privy to the secrets they all had to keep and pledged to. So, So, easy just to banner that ideal. I was opposed to it too, but if I had to seat down and buckle up in the Senate chamber to buck the majority of senators who voted for it, I don't think I would and I don't think Obama would have either.
trueblue @ 60:
And Obama voted to fund the war, so does he have blood on his hands too? Beating this issue to death is starting to get tiresome.
Both of them, won't and havent voted for funding-- so what exactly changed?
Hmmm.
2008: February 10, 2008 6:00pm CT
News Break:
Criminals continue to inflitrate and occupy the United States government and Federal agencies,
including the United States Justice Department.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-md.nominees08feb08,...
U.S. News media outlets continue to be held hostage.
The American people continue to keep track of ignored criminal Subpoenas and criminal coverup.
http://www.democrats.com/book/export/html/13268
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-giraldi/sibel-edmonds-must-be-hea_b...
And good to the american patriot at CBS who leaked this in an effort to push back against the White House.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/30922
This has been a February 10, 2008
special report.
"God I love Kucinich…"
I was a Kucinich supporter, because he would end laissez-faire (free) trade, and supported single-payer health care. We're not going to end the trade deficit or health care crisis without these solutions, I think.
However, I will be supporting the Democrat nominee, Clinton or Obama, and will be headed to the polls at a gallop this November to vote, if for no other reason, then because I'll want to see any Supreme Court nominees to be someone like Ginsburg or Breyer rather than another Roberts or Alito.
And Obama voted to fund the war, so does he have blood on his hands too? Beating this issue to death is starting to get tiresome.
Both of them, won't and havent voted for funding-- so what exactly changed?
Hmmm.
Hillary is closer to McCain than to Obama on the war. I assume you'll vote for McCain if Obama is the democratic nominee.
Captain Kangaroo @ 53:
Populist America backed the war in droves at the time, but I guess representative Democracy is only good if the representatives vote the way many would (or would have, in retrospect).
So, the superdelegates are bad because they're going against popular opinion in backing Hillary, and Hillary was bad because she supported public opinion by voting to authorize war as a last resort.
See: http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html
CoIntelPro @ 56:
JFK had no experience? Are you f'n kidding me?
Read a book please.
As for Bill Clinton, 12,13 years as Gov of Arkansas doesn't count?
Strawberrybitch @ 24:
I'll second that!! Beware an Obamadroid fatwa against you.... duck incoming!
Burney @ 37:
You beat me to it.
Thanks for stating the obvious for those that lack to ability to see the obvious
Chris@72 Hey genius, please compare JFK's experience to Obama's for all us stupid people.
Barack was talking about how idiotic and dangerous this war would be. His mistake was giving that answer to Russert during the 2004 election and trying to make Kerry look better.
Hillary constantly touts her experience - for me she made a gynormous mistake on the biggest vote she ever took. That is enough for me not to be President.
this cartoon is totally offensive. this is one of those times
when freedom of speech is difficult. i would rather have had
the choice of linking to this instead of having it shoved in front
of my eyes.
It's not funny,it's pointed.And it worked.Just reading these comments tells me that.Oh sure,I was offended,but it underlines how ridiculous we all are when it comes down to issues of record and race.Rall's not so much an asshole than a instigator.
RancidVenison @ 71:
Well populist America now is against the war. So there.
I'm not that keen on either Obama or Hillary, but regardless of who wins, I'm heading out to the polls to cast my vote for the Democratic nominee. Why? It's all about who appoints the next Supreme Court Justice, nothing else matters more for the future of our Democracy in terms of civil rights, civil liberties, the environment, war and peace and the accountability of government and corporations to the public good. The next Presidency will only last 4-8 years, Supreme Court decisions are more or less forever. If McCain gets to nominate far right Federalist Society nutjobs, our justice system will become a Kafkaesque nightmare that will make the Soviet purge trials look like paragons of judicial restraint. Anybody who doesn't get it is a moron.
What the hell? This cartoon is offensive and not funny at all. Something I'd expect from a right-wing website but not from C&L.
Double standard much? Get over yourself Obama supporters. It's not "utterly offensive" to question whether or not an individual candidate is an apostle come to life. Obama should be subject to the same scrutiny as Hillary. So far he hasn't been.
Oh, and it's a political cartoon, so of course he's going to look weird in it, it's a caricature. Hillary looked weird in the picture too. Nothing offensive.
McCain cannot be allowed to be elected!! He is Rudy Giuliani and George (dumbass) Bush on steroids concerning the war. It is his only issue.
CoIntelPro @ 56:
Chris@72 No retort? I guess you're busy reading a book.
#43
You refer to a "$400B boondoggle". - You and many others, with different amounts.
Who is to say how much? All of this is borrowed, and as in any debt owed, the interest keeps adding up until you pay down that debt, and will not stop until all of it has been repaid with interest up to the day of final payment.
This will run into the trillions [plural]
I swear! All the political correctness in all the previous posts, or anywhere else for that matter, makes me want to throw up.
IT'S A COMIC STRIP!
Read it and laugh, or not. You can't deny that there is some truth in it though.
They're both in the CFR, their voting records are similar and so on and so on.
Get over your fine self, America.
Oh the cartoon. Well if anybody is that offended then they are fishing for offence. Get over it.
This cartoon is crap.
I have to agree with the others that it is WAY beneath the usual high quality of Crooks & Liars.
The drawing is horrible,
and the "humor", well, it's only funny if you got something against Obama...
Agenda in place of wit...
And for all the buffoons out there reminding us that Obama is a politician, uhm, thanks for the update. I don't think the problem is cult at all, nor denial about his slippery integrity as far as politicians go. We know not to expect perfection, thanks. But we also know about those history-making, epic decisions, when even "slippery-politicians" need to put career aside and stand on principle.
The issue is Hillary DID vote for the war, and then DEFENDED her vote. She went against her own ethics, her own party, her own soul.
It's really pretty damn simple.
She has proven failed leadership, why on earth should she be rewarded with the executive???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cartoon is by Ted Rall, he's always ruthless and cuts to the bone. This isn't his funniest or most prescient by far. In any case, I'm pretty sure he's a Nader voter.
Why post this cartoon? There are plenty of political cartoons that would have made all of the C and L readers laugh, and feel good. There really is no humor (as far as I can tell) in the cartoon. I think it's very very important to understand that Hillary voted to authorize the war. Did Obama vote to authorize the war? No. Hillary did. Would Obama have voted for the war? Speculate away but don't forget that Hillary did make that vote!
I'm a big fan of offensive commentary... this just wasn't that funny. I think it showed poor judgment to put up something so controversial that just wasn't that funny.
Ron Cobb was the greatest political cartoonist of the twentieth century.
http://www.shimmerytimbers.com/starticles01.htm
And #2 would be Dr. Seuss Went to War: http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dspolitic/
As in soccer, the goalkeeper is judged by how good the defense performs in front of him.
For heads of state, both federal and state, and even local, he is only as good as the people he appoints to manage the different departments.
Bush hired all the old folks from Reagan and Bush I.
The hope is that Obama will make better choices and listen to better advisers.
As long as idiots are still offended by Ted Rall, I have hope for the salvation of the republic.
Isn't this the cartoonist who defamed Pat Tillman?
I remember now... this man is scum.
I actually place Ted Rall below Bush (but not Cheney).
Burney @ 37:
Opposing it then funding it, is the opposite of opposing it. "Responsible thing to do" when following a disastrous Republican agenda... that makes me sick. That's something the Republicans themselves would say.
A) the drawing SUCKS - is that supposed to look like Hillary & Barack?
B) it's not funny at all, even if you believe the premise which is actually complete bullshit. If you compare the crap that was flowing out of Clinton's mouth in 2002-03 to what Obama was saying at the time you would have to be insane not to see a difference. When Senators like Feinstein and Kennedy were smart enough to not trust Bush with a loaded gun, what made Hillary vote the wrong way? Answer: very bad political calculation.
CoIntelPro @ 56:
And, she redecorated the WH into garrish "Holiday Inn, Little Rock" horror, clashing colors, patterns, ruffles, a headache in 3 minutes.. Couldn't do even as a decorator.. Her experience organized as chronological resume/ job application comes VERY poor and short .. She could be maybe some actress (cries on demand), but not w/her looks.. She's been a disaster as a Senator also - I am in NYC.. Did NOTHING for us - we are her springboard for this preznit adventure..
whatever is unknown of Obama, aplenty, we still have a chance better than w/shillary..
I wish Edwards was still in, pressing these two into issues .. Would Edwards accept the VeeP post ? Webb much too parochial ..
Ooops I meant Feingold not Feinstein.....I love Russ.
This cartoon IS very LAME and rascist .. Not in the C&L league !!
C&L is scooping really low. I didn't expect that from you guys. You are very disappointing with this post Nicole.
More Ted Rall cartoons, please! He's consistently offensive, not politically-correct and hilarious!
That cartoon doesn't belong here. Tacky ridicule of both Obama and Clinton.
Damn. Reading some of these posts you'd think Nicole swiftboated a war hero.
In other news Hillary and Obama kiss Edward's ring for an endorsement http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_campaign_manager
Hold out John for the best deal! Vice president, AG, Supreme Court Justice, you name it, you deserve it!
Obama is the quintessential theoretical candidate.
Bravo, Ted. Thanks, Nicole
I'll laugh at damn near anything -- but this is cartoon is just not funny. It's not thought provoking, not edgy, not controversial, it doesn't reveal any hidden truth, it's just painfully stupid.
It's stupid in every possible way, from the drawing style to the idiotic premise that Obama would think he would have been a slave (American slaves weren't taken from Kenya), to the tasteless and moronic dig at Clinton triangulating herself into a past slave owner.
What was the point of posting this? If you need material, I'm sure C&L readers have lots lying around, all you gotta do is ask.
nope pretty sure I do hate us.
We are so fucked in November
You bitches better get over your sexism - it's more offensive then that silly cartoon.
I like Obama and voted for him but I'm really put off by his supporters. Get it together - I feel like I'm reading Freerepublic.
I'm sorry, I've read the whole thread. Where are the sexist comments of which you speak?
Ted Rall is so wrong here. Obama was asked in Sept 2002 if he would have voted for the war. He said NO. Just YouTube it, it's there.
His later votes in the Senate are regarding funding the occupation, not whether or not we should have gone to war. These are two separate issues, so you can't call him a flipflopper. It's essentially the same position Howard Dean has taken over the years.
When Bill Clinton called Obama's war record a "fairy tale" he was distorting reality. Bill has lost a lot of the high respect many of us had for him with his distortions.
Rasputin @ 73:
Three here
I found the cartoon a bit offensive too. Good!
I actually supported Edwards and now prefer Obama - but I was a bit annoyed by the treatment Bill got in the press for stating the truth about their voting records.
Mister Anderson@30 aptly summed up the reason I am supporting Obama with this: "The difference isn’t in the politics….the difference is in the people. I don’t think Clinton can beat John McCain because she’ll unite the Republican Party, lose Independents and depress the first-time voters that Obama has attracted. As President, I don’t think that HRC can get anything done because Republicans will oppose her just to oppose her (even at their own expense) and she is in debt to corporations."
Pulling down a cartoon because some find it offensive when it makes worthwhile points is not a good idea.
Captain Kangaroo @ 55:
if that were true, then why is obama's support coming from the affluent whereas hillary's is coming from the middle class?...
the people whom evangelize obama are as scary as those who still support bush...
For all the folks who aren't sure about Obama's war stance, just watch this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8
Here's the 2002 interview where Obama says he would vote "nay."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po&feature=related
klunk @ 116:
Because the better educated are also better informed.
From a well informed, very educated worker who only makes $20,000 a year thanks to NAFTA.
angstccafe @ 112:
I keep seeing people blame all the bickering on the Obama people but I have noticed plenty of absurdity out of Hillary supporters... it helps neither of the candidates.
UnEasyOne @ 115:
Likewise I too supported Edwards but when he bowed out before the New York primary I voted for Obama. It's probably the first time I ever made up my mind in the voting booth. I wasn't totally happy with either choice but Obama as Frank Rich said in his oped piece in the NY Times would be the one who could beat McCain because Obama can campaign on change and the electorate wants change. Hillary nor McCain can campaign on change, they represent the status quo and politics of the past.
this cartoon is supposed to be offensive.It Illustrates how ridiculous dem on dem fighting is.Some folks out there look like repugs going after a dem ,as for the cartoon itself.
eh!
For all of you people of the Democratic party, I fear for you in November if you don't get your act together now! I don't want to come on this site in November if we lose, I know some of you will probably commit suicide! This cartoon is indeed quite unfunny and pointless! The Obama or the Clinton way. Nicole: Thumbs down! I'm not sure what your intent was with this one, unless you explain yourself then thumbs down.
As for those on the "Obama's Iraq positon is a fairy tale" bandwagon: Get over yourself. Any intelligent monkey out there should be able to make the difference between voting for the war and voting to fund our troops who are already in harms way. Mr Obama, or for that matter any other congressman, would be irresponsible not to vote to provide funding for our troops while they are in the middle of a War. The War has already happened, you can't vote against it retrospectively! What the congressmen of the Democratic party should have done was to pass a bill that demands an end to the occupation. They did not. So, they must keep funding it as long as our troops are there. No one, neither Obama nor Clinton, have proposed a piece of legislature to end the WAR. Neither of them can claim to be anti-war.
klunk @ 116:
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now, c'mon!
your logic is so flawed as to be propaganda, and poor propaganda at that!!
Why neglect to mention that the republican base is made of mostly poor and under-educated citizens? Americans are notorious for voting against their interests, and choosing the wrong representatives!
Moreover, trying to dismiss Hillary's corporate identity by confusing the issue with her "middle-class" support is a poor tactic.
Obama's base is not only "affluent" they are -better educated- and as far as the stories I have read, it is their education that seems to have been the headline, above wealth.
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I am offended by the low quality of the artwork.
And to further piss off the Clinton supporters, after sweeping the weekends states, Obama adds insult to injury.
Feb 10, 5:09 PM ET
LOS ANGELES - Barack Obama topped a Clinton in another contest on Sunday — the Grammys.
The presidential candidate beat both former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter to win best spoken word album for his audio version of his book "The Audacity Of Hope: Thoughts On Reclaiming The American Dream."
Clinton was nominated for his book "Giving: How Each of Us Can Change the World" and Carter for "Sunday Mornings in Plains: Bringing Peace to a Changing World." Also nominated was Maya Angelou and Alan Alda.
Snowball @ 119:
lol... that's just a bias on your behalf... lower income doesn't necessarily mean either under-educated nor less astute nor less informed... thanks for proving that obama supporters are as irrational as bush supporters though... ;-)
I agree this should be taken down, read what Obama actually said at the time, he had the guts to call the war for what it was and there is no way you can claim he would have voted for it.
This cartoon is blatantly Pro-Hillary, the silly "I would have loved to own you" statement isn't any real attack while the rest of it tries to do a Rovian attack at one of Obama's biggest advantages over Hillary.
Take it down now!!!
Glennser
This cartoon is crap. I don't come to Crooks and Liars to read crap.
klunk @ 116:
Um..check the exit polls. Hillary's support is coming from the higher up middle class and rich, not the other way around. What is it with elections that makes people completely lose reality? It's a damn party candidacy. They are both the same basically, just like the cartoon is trying to say. Difference? Clinton has been around since Freddie Flintstone and has just as many bones in her closet. She has the name recognition like Britney Spears, and with just as many plus and minuses. Maybe Obama supporters actually like the fact that their candidate hasn't been in Washington since the 70s and if elected will bring the exact same people back into Washington that have been kicked out repeatedly. Why can't any of these supposed "change" candidates actually bring some fresh people and ideas with them, instead of old political hacks like Stern and Albright etc? Part of the problem with Bush's regime was the fact that he employed the same damn wingnuts that have been kicked out over and over and over. You really want that again?
Now, I also appreciate the double standard here. I remember the outrage over the comments on Chelsea. Even C&L censored posts that supported the comments, yet it's ok to post something that compares Obama to a Nazi supporter! Let's see if this post will even get through: Chelsea Clinton is an ugly biyatch! By the way, I'm a Clinton supporter. I simply just hate the double standard. Let's just play the game fair and square. I'm pretty confident my gal can win this thing without the help of any fake blogger's biases!
Eh, it's just not really funny IMHO. Political cartoons are usually most effective and funny when they are succinct. I've seen great ones that don't have any text in them. This particular one seems to be trying waaaay too hard to make it's point, whatever that may have been. It seems to have inspired yet another BO v HRC battle more than anything. It's good to discuss the pros/cons of each candidate but I have to say it tends to get a little far flung at times. If I'm not mistaken most of us here want the Repugs out of the White House. Correct? If the intent of posting this was to initiate discussion, it worked. If it was posted because of it's alleged humor, eh it didn't work for me.
Take Care!!
glennser @ 128:
NO WAY! Leave it up Nicole!! Don't succumb to the same logic Clinton supporters gave for attacking anyone in the media that questioned their use of daughter in their campaign. No more censorship just because a candidate or it's supporter don't like it.
Ted Rall has always tried to write the most shocking shit and get a rise out of people, I remember he wrote some cartoon mocking Pat Tillman's death.
The cartoon above is only funny as its so patetically unfunny. Just thrown out as red meat to get a rise out of people, now everyone quit slobbering and take a damn bite.
Ummmmmm...........Good stuff. Little too rare though
klunk @ 127:
maybe you should take a break from your laughing fit to read the line that clearly states: "...From a well informed, very educated worker who only makes $20,000 a year thanks to NAFTA."
so who is the irrational one?
shill much?
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I've been reading the comments. The Rall cartoon was certainly one quick way to get everyone to come out with their preferences on Hillary vs. Obama. It is satire people.
ConcernedCanuck @ 126:
Um, please stop the Dem on Dem violence. You're not helping either side....and if you're a Canuck, didn't you guys just elect a whiter, politer version of Bush yourselves? Ya know, maybe you should kinda' remove that splinter thingy from your own eye...
Peter G @ 136:
Exactly. People don't seem to get satire or comedy any more. This is what 8 years of Bush has done? Gawd. You can't even joke about a candidate without someone having a cow. Obama's wife campaigns for him, and nobody is allowed to talk about it or her. Clinton's daughter campaigns for her, but won't speak to media or anyone else for that matter, and she is off limits. Well, if these people want to be off limits, quit campaigning for crying out loud. Lighten up people. Dang. Matters not if you get Obama or Clinton. Both will be the same once elected.
Strawberrybitch @ 137:
It's for a laugh. Lighten up. Sorry, with the name you have picked as yours, I guess you don't know what a joke is.
An Other Greek @ 124:
oh puh-leeze... you call my logic flawed and accuse me of propagandizing... and clearly without any understanding of what that term actually means... lol... thanks for proving my point that obama supporters are as irrationally scary as bush supporters...
obama's base is not better educated... only wealthier or youthfully idealistic... if your response is typical of obama religious-like fervor, then clearly, obama's supporters are more interested in feeling good about solving problems than they are in thinking through them...
personally, i think obama would make a great president... after he's served two terms as hillary's vp...
S.G.E.W. @ 7:
I never saw him at any f-cking rallies. He was no leader. He still isn't.
And anybody who would travel to Connecticut to stump for Lieberman saying that Lieberman was working
"in our behalf" does not deserve the benefit of the doubt about how they would have voted for the Iraq resolution.
Tequila @ 19:
Obama is getting ahead largely because of his charisma and p.r. machine. I'd bet anything you could ask his supporters details on his voting record and most of them wouldn't have a clue. Or if they did know about his support of many of Bush's policies, they would spin it silly. MOST Americans don't have a clue about ANY of the candidates' records.
I am supporting Barack over Hillary but you can take this to the bank: it is easy to take a radical position (which I took well before the invasion) if you're not in office and don't have to worry about getting re-elected to a Senate seat. The truth is, we can speculate all day but we have no way of knowing for sure how he would have voted.
An Other Greek @ 135:
shill much...?... lol... pkb...
klunk @ 127:
That's right, I'm neither under-educated, less astute or uninformed. I'm quite well aware of the Clinton's "Third Way" corporate funded DLC policies. More so, I'm aware of Clinton's negatives and how each candidate has already had their characters defined by the Corporate Media. This election will be won, as were the 2000 and 2004 elections, on the basis of public perception about the presumed character of the candidates, not on a litany of policy positions. Remember how Bush was portrayed in both elections as a straight-talking everyman who you could have a beer with while Gore and Kerry were portrayed as wishy-washy elitist intellectuals? Well, they were easily defined that way due to their support of DLC policies that made them appear as if they didn't stand on principle as well as relentless framing by the Corporate Media. Both Clinton and McCain have already had their public images defined by the Corporate Media. Fair or not, McCain is perceived as the "straight-talking, moderate maverick" and Hillary as the triangulating calculating political opportunist. Who wins that race? Think about it.
Neither Obama or Clinton are my ideal candidates, but Obama has a better chance at winning the general election. I'll vote for either rather than let a Republican appoint the next Supreme.
Having said that, I highly suspect that you're not a Democrat, but a Republican troll attempting to divide the Democratic party and suppress voter turnout. Not a real Clinton supporter at all. Thanks for playing. :D
ConcernedCanuck @ 139:
Actully, I thought the whole whiter, politer Bush comment was a riot, and I thought Canucks knew how to joke. After all you gave us the Kids in the Hall.
CoIntelPro @ 64:
Prepare to be assimilated. You have transgressed. The Oborg will now assimilate you and make better use of you components.
LionelB @ 141:
I don't recall Hillary at peace rallies anywhere, and if my memory serves me correctly, the ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY has been kissing Lieberman's ass for how long? Are some of these posters from Drudge or what? Damn. You'all sound like you ARE Republican NeoCONs. If this is what is going to elect the next US Prez, Bush is going to look like the good ol' days.
Looks like the Hillary Me Club has a cartoonist. I can barely contain my joy.
Strawberrybitch @ 145:
Well, it was kinda a good joke, but alas, we know not who our current leader is. He has kind of disappeared since before he was elected, because like Bush, every time he opened his mouth his polls fell. LOL! Heard he really likes to eat though. But that's just a rumour. He hides as good as Cheney though. Kids In the Hall? I'm more impartial to Royal Canadian Air Farce, and Rick Mercer. Political comedy with a bit of a bite.
mudshark @ 122:
Eureka! He blocks! He scores!
Leave it to muddy to actually get the point of the cartoon! Good on ya Muddy!
Jack @ 123:
So what happens if funding for the war is cut? How can it go on? Where will the funding come from? You're playing right into the Republican trap.
ConcernedCanuck @ 139:
I lived in Canada... the canucks are so serial!
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