Sorry, Candidates: Waterboarding works!
By Nicole Belle Sunday Feb 10, 2008 1:16pm
So sayeth the bard of FOXNews, Bill O'Reilly:
My question is: What will the presidential candidates do about [al Qaeda gaining strength and presence in Pakistan] and about the interrogation of captured terror suspects?
John McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama all say “waterboarding” is torture and should be outlawed. So let’s assume it will be after President Bush leaves office. Let’s also assume that most captured terrorists will not give up their comrades under standard Geneva Convention interrogation methods.
Who wins under that scenario? Well, it looks like the terrorists do, right? With “waterboarding” out and chatting in, the bad guys have one less thing to worry about. Do you feel safer knowing name, rank and jihad number are all that’s required of a captured al-Qaeda terrorist?
Baby Jesus wept, Bill. It's so sad to know someone so clueless on every level is given a national platform to display that cluelessness again and again. As John pointed out to me this morning, the Boston Herald is a pretty conservative paper and even their readership is excoriating O'Reilly for this one. Read the comments to see.
So Bill, are you suggesting that Robert Fisk, who is in a position to know better than some loudmouthed television personality, is wrong?
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I think BillO knows more than he's letting on to. Now how are going to find out? Volunteers?!
Somebody needs to find him in his shower and stuff some pills in his mouth.
He is certainly right about certain media outlets ignoring important issues. If you watched Fox News you'd never know there was a war in Iraq.
So the extent of U.S. intelligence (at least in Bill-o's eyes) is using barbaric methods to obtain information. Awesome. I think that sort of thinking should easily assist in cutting back on how much money is currently spent on defense and security and perhaps put into social programs and education of course so we can avoid having dipshits like him project any influence over any intelligent human being.
Do you think he'd feel the same way with a loofah shoved down his esophagus?
5 goatsage...maybe a fallafel down his esophagus. A Fallafelgus.
The Carpenter @ 6:
If he snuffled it down, would it be a snufffallaphagus?
I got news for B. (for brainless) O. (for oral diarrhea) here. Waterboarding already is outlawed here. Not that this ever stopped the cheney/bush regime. The Geneva Convention forbids it. There was a Japanese officer who found that out the hard way. The Geneva Convention is one of those international laws that would have the force of law here with any law-abiding administration. Somebody should check to see if forcing somebody to listen to B.O. violates the Geneva Convention.
Another sideline soldier giving us his expert military advice. Maybe Billy tried waterboarding that last hooker who said no to his ugly ass.
I eagerly await watching Billo be waterboarded live for the duration of his show. Perhaps an imaginary homeless veteran can do the honors.
You know, I've been wondering this...since waterboarding is SOOOO effective, then why just limit it to terrorism suspects? Why not waterboard people who have been accused of murder, child molestation, rape, etc? I mean people who commit murder are also killing americans, why is it just limited to terrorism?
Let's not be too hasty to mock and dismiss the Falaffel Guy. Well, let's not be too hasty to dismiss him, at least. As the awful excuse for a human he his, it's easy for critical thinkers to ignore what comes out of his talking hole, but don't forget about the littlebrains. If you can slow your mind down enough and think like them, you'd see people who let Orally form their opinions for them. The guy is still a dangerous enemy of the public.
Here is a modified, and more appropriate, version of the O'Racist photo.
So, does this mean a captured American soldier may have to endure waterboarding because this jackass endorses it?
Of course waterboarding works. It just depends what your objectives are.
Let the fear-mongering begin!
It makes me feel safer in that I know i"m not going to let my dog shit on the wrong lawn and have some petty Christofacist politico with a hook in the DHS whisper in the right ear to have my door kicked in one night and have ME pulled out of my house in the middle of the night without a warrant and waterboarded.
It also makes me feel better knowing that it might just be possible to save this country and restore it's moral foundation that people like Bill OReilly have destroyed by turning us into a nation of feckless immoral cowards who go into a panic on seeing LED cartoon characters.
This is the new Fair and Balanced America.
Education, Positivity, Arts, and Higher Culture have been replaced with Imperialism, War Mongering, and Torture.
Interesting how people from another country (australia) can come to the USA and set up a propaganda machine complete with secret black ops dept. A machine that has changed the face of America and American unity forever.
http://www.caos.us/2008/01/naked-launch-prologue.html
Waterboarding (like most extreme torture) does work. It just doesn't work very well for intelligence gathering. For inducing confessions, however, it's almost 100% effective.
Anybody scared of witches?
fiver @ 20:
Nope
fiver @ 20:
which witch?
In waterboarding, they put the water in at the other end, falafeloofa boy. It's not the same as your frequent colonic confessional sessions with Ailes, ya factually dislexic blowhard...
Well, we don't know who is and who is not a terrorist unless we have some information, so anyone can be suspected of being a terrorist, then subjected to waterboarding, right? Bill O'Reilly terrifies me. Wouldn't that be enough probable cause to get some information out of him by any means neccessary?
Proud2bHumble @ 23:
But America can't be saved unless the Islamo Fascists are exterminated. Thats the point the GOP is trying to make with all his stuff.
In order to live high on the hog like we do, others Must Go!
I wish y'all would stop ragging on O'Reilly and his 'show'. If you're not carefull, he'll get yanked off the air 'due to popular demand', and our society will have lost a valuable and almost perfect bellweather for our times.
If you, as I, are constantly time-challenged by the infinitude of information sources in this day of 'the knowledge explosion', and are frantically second-guessing yourself as to whether your decisions are correct. If you wonder whether there might be some data out there that you have missed, and are therefore making an incorrect decision that my lead to your personal armageddon, or perhaps the end of civilization as we know it, take heart.
There is a simple, absolutely dependable, easy to access, and time-efficient way to assure yourself of 'rightness'.
Just tune in to O'Reilly. Knowing that everything he espouses is 180 degrees out-of-phase with reality, and his 'judgments' and 'pronouncements' are invariably, incredibly stupid, you can easily plot a correct, safe, and rewarding path for yourself in these troubled times.
Just do what he don't do, and do what he don't say. You'll be right.
As an alternative, you can apply the same approach to The Dummy's utterances, if you have the time to waste trying to decipher what he means.
Peter G @ 3:
WAR IN IRAQ ?!?!?!
With Paris Hilton movie debut a bust, Amy Winehouse kicking ass in the Grammy's from afar and Carrie Underwood's awesome dress, who wants to be bummed out by some messy, faraway war ?
Proud2bHumble @ 23:
Do you mind, I'm trying to enjoy my lunch. :)
Sorry billo! Waterboarding CAN'T be outlawed! SINCE IT IS AND HAS BEEN ILLEGAL ALREADY!!!!! And your America hating hero bush IS going to go to prison for ordering it!!!! GET USED TO IT!! And STOP continually trying to mis-inform the American people into thinking that isn't the case.
Has anyone actually seen this supposedly valuable evidence that was gained by waterboarding, or is all that so valuable that it is top secret? We know how scrupulously honest the Bushes are with top secret evidence. Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who they finally admitted to waterboarding, confessed to everything short being the gunman on the grassy knoll in the Kennedy assassination.
When it comes to dealing with scumbag terrorists who would not hesitate to blow up a school bus filled with American children, no interrogation technique is off the table. I support all forms of terrorist torture including water boarding; bamboo shoots under fingernails; forcing them to listen to Yoko Ono music.
Chico @ 27:
Really ... What the f*ck is going on over there. I turned on CNN-International and all they are showing is some black ex-cop snivvling in the courtroom for ten full minutes. I turned the damned thing off. We've got war going on, unrest in many parts of the globe, torture being done by the leading power in the world and all the news is about some poor bastards miserable life?
Muddy @ 30:
LOL, they can't show us any of THAT, it's "an ongoing investigation".
Strawberrybitch @ 28:
I had no way of knowing you were having chili for lunch... I apologize for regurgitating Blo's puke in such a graphic fashion. Forgive me?
@31
YOKO ON MUSIC...you monster...have you no soul in that black pit of a chest cavity???
O'reilly is one of the biggest scum bags on earth. To listen to him and agree is to declare your ignorance of any subject whatsoever.
fiver @ 20:
Witches? No. But clowns....especially those of the reichwing type....you bet.
Proud2bHumble @ 34:
Bwahahahahah. Dude, how'd ya guess, I WAS having a black bean burrito, too funny. But hey, you did me a favour, I wasn't really hungry anyways.
How surprising! Liberals always know how to bring up the problems with the world but when it comes to solving them they always seem to crawl back into the little holes in the dirt they came from and smoke a joint! You got a problem with "waterboarding"!? Great. How would you recommend getting information from some military extremist?! Hello???!!! It's called WAR!!!! duh, sorry it doesn't feel good to you! Get over it! Do what you have to do to win! Do it as fast as possible! And had Liberal woosies like you, who snivel about waterboarding, shut your mouths the war in iraq would have been over years ago! Quit saying how much you support the troops when all you try to do is tie their arms behind their backs! www.buycommonsense.com
Chico @ 27:
Our population has been well trained to become zombie "consumers" of this kind of stuff.
that clinches it. Fox News is really just another parody show. very funny stuff, Bill-O. my sides hurt.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
You truly suck you ignorant ape.
wait, i know. let's send all the terrorists to Jacob Larson's mother's basement, so that he can interrogate them using his patented Cheetoh and Mountain Dew method!
42 - L.A. Confidential
Do not feed the trolls.
Strawberrybitch @ 38:
Sorry, I tend to go on ad nauseum at times. It makes my friends and family sick. Glad everything came out alright for you though! ;)
"Water torture has been acknowledged by the United States to be illegal since at least 1901 when an Army officer was convicted and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment for using it to torture a Philippine rebel.
In 1947, a Japanese officer was prosecuted by the United States for strapping a U.S. civilian to a tilted stretcher and pouring water over his face until he agreed to talk. The officer was convicted of a Violation of the Laws and Customs of War and was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.
In 1968, the Washington Post published a photograph of an American soldier supervising the use of water torture on a North Vietnamese prisoner. The victim was being held down as water was poured over a cloth covering his nose and mouth to induce "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning meant to make him talk." The soldier was charged, convicted and discharged from the Army."
THERE is the truth billo, you lying cowardly turd ball!!
goatsage @ 44:
He's an ignorant ape scared out his diapers.
Thats the facts.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
abob @ 31:
You really think either one of you couldn't be tortured into admitting that you were going to blow up a school bus?
Remember that you are in more danger of being struck by lightning than of being injured by terrorist. So, logically, you should put your efforts into supporting the War on Lightning (with my apologies to Samantha Bee).
Frightened. Little. Rabbits.
L.A. Confidential @ 47:
Actually referring to him as an ape is an insult to Apes.
Ok, let's assume the moon is made of jello.
Well, if the moon is made of jello, then why aren't we sending spaceships there right now with jello-scooping machinery? So anyone not endorsing the "Send Jello Scoopers to the Moon" policy is a terrorist pinhead, QED.
L.A. Confidential @ 47:
Okay, bananas then...but don't try logic
I've just reported to the FBI that I have evidence that abob@31 is plotting a terrorist attack on US soil. So if they waterboard him it's AOK, right abob@31? Because both me and the FBI consider YOU a suspected terrorist now so it MUST be alright. You're even dumber then billo! At least he probably doesn't believe what he's saying but just doing it for the money.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
What is a liberal woosie?
Billo is getting shriller by the day! The more he rants and raves gives me a strange sense of poetic justice. I pray a Dem wins. Watching Billo go up in flames would be so fasinating.
I'll vote for any candidate that promises to arrest Bill O'Reilly and have him waterboarded.
What? It's not like it's torture. Where are you going, Bill?
Isn’t there a certain amount of recklessness when one has to resort to torture to obtain strategic information? Especially trying keeping this torture secret. Think about it, there are a lot of military moves one could avoid doing this. Or has that been the core principle of our so called commanders on the ground.
It also shows that America seems desperate to gain intelligence. All which says we are not wining this war.
Terrible @ 52:
you got any Yoko Ono music handy? i have a feeling that'd be his breaking point.
I think it's a little rubber thing that keeps your drink warm.
Jacob Larson@39, and it is sick moron America haters like you who CREATE the F***ING problems in the first place!!! So the obvious answer is keeping even the smallest of positions of power like dog catcher the F*** out of your sick hands!!
goatsage @ 51:
His mentality is whats holding back the whole world from progress.
It's unfortunate these types are permitted to breed. But then again the elites wouldn't have useful idiots like him to exploit and discard if they weren't encouraged to "screw" anything they can hold down.
BabushkaBlue @ 53:
Woosie is a pussys way of saying pussy. Hope that cleared things up.
When will we stop saying that waterboarding "simulates" drowning? It doesn't "simulate" anything. It IS drowning. It's just that the torturers stop the drowning prior to death to ask a question.
P.D. @ 54:
Wouldn't forcing suspected terrorists to watch his program be a more effective form of torture than simulated drowning? Is there really any difference for that matter?
I had one at Trader Vic's back in the 70's. Pineapple juice and lots of rum I think.....
I suspect that Bill O. is really a homosexual. I think he should be waterboarded until he confesses. That would prove he is a homosexual.
Is it against Geneva Convention interrogation rules to have Bill O'Reilly rub mayo all over himself and try to give Al Queda terrorists a lap dance? I mean, that would surely cause them to give up information.
Interesting that Bill-O would bring up al Qaeda's resurgence in Pakistan to justify torture. He has done this because the Bush administration AND both Republican candidates do NOT have a solution for this. Only Obama has stated the correct path for addressing this real threat:
1. "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," - Barack Obama
2. "Well, let me just say we think that our approach to Pakistan is one that not only respects the sovereignty of Pakistan as a sovereign government, but is also designed to work in a way where we are working in cooperation with the local government. So we think that our policy and our approach is the right one." - Tony Snow, then Bush's press secretary
3. "Because, first of all, Pakistan is a sovereign nation." - Pres. Bush
4. the situation in Pakistan is "very delicate," since the country's leader, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, is an American ally with a tenuous hold on power. The Arizona senator said a direct American attack on the country could cause a backlash that might topple Musharraf. "I think it's kind of a simplistic view of a very complex situation," - John McCain
5. "What we’ve seen happen is that in the Musharraf government, he has told us that he really does not have enough control of those eastern borders near Afghanistan to be able go after the terrorists. But on the other hand, he doesn’t want us going in because it violates his sovereignty." (italics mine) - Mike Huckabee
So, the Republican's answer to the growing threat in Pakistan is "leave Musharraf alone!" (ala Chris Crocker defending Britney Spears). Bill-O and other party-before-country loyalists have decided that defending torture is the way to make up for this utter weakness.
WTF @ 61:
Thank you.
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 63:
That'll make me woozy, and blowing chunks
Not pineapple chunks.
BabushkaBlue @ 53:
BabushkaBlue, they're the people who crushed the fascist hoards last century I'd say. Jacob just hates America so bad and is such a weak fearful little wimp he'll say anything against our nation.
ysbaddaden @ 68:
You are one sick dog. :)
Proud2bHumble @ 70:
Actually, I think a Sick Dog is vodka and grapefruit juice... Oops, that's a Salty Dog. Never mind. :)
casper46 @ 60:
No. Those folks are wussies. Google the word.
According the www.thefreedictionary.com:
wuss (ws)
n. Slang
A person regarded as weak or timid and especially as unmanly: "Cats are for wusses, dog men say" Laura Blumenfeld.
I'm just saying that if a troll wants to call me a name, it might be smart to at least spell it right. The idiocy takes all the wind out of his bright shiny sail otherwise.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
it is very difficult to place others on trial for war crimes, when you and your country practice the same measures.
in the first gulf war, do you believe that the iraqi's wouldve surrendered en masse had they known they could be subject to unbelievable tortures?
how we are behaving now, will ultimately come back and bite us in the ass
i just wish you guys could see that
fiver @ 71:
Isn't a Sick Dog just a Salty Dog with a splash of Grenadine?
Um Yeah, I'm sure guys like Jacob will feel the same way when Hillary busts down his door and waterboards his pasty, white, republican, virginal ass. Thanks for all the executive power, boneheads.
The looniest of toons. Evern the Freepers are starting to, outloud, wonder about his and Coulter's sanity. I hope they never take him off the air. I want everyone to see the voice of Conservative America..
Strawberrybitch @ 75:
Ouch!
THERE ARE NO STANDARD GENEVA CONVENTION INTERROGATION METHODS
It is ILLEGAL to interrogate prisoners of war.
END OF SENTENCE.
Not even our hippie liberal press seems to understand that.
Why wonder why so many people around the world hate U.S.! Ignore the Geneva Convention, International Law etc.
I wish Bill O Reilly would step up to the plate and volunteer for waterboarding. Maybe just maybe he would tell the truth about something....anything.
JacobLarson@39 Dude, if you believe that sorry shit you spit out, just go home and eat a bullet.
abob @ 31:
No soul. You have been played. Do unto others.
Strawberrybitch @ 75:
If I might refer you to:
Proud2bHumble @ 23:
Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)
Jacob Larson @ 39:
Your post does not even warrant a response because it's utter nonsense. Go collect your paycheck from the RNC and move on, nutjob.
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 63:
A republican woman who has had too much to drink. Not too, too much to drink because then she's too woosie and will pass out.
Lone Rogue @ 65:
I agree if by "information" you actually mean "lunch".
Blue Lensman @ 1:
I"ll do it! We should do it during this show.
Why would some one need to buy common sense?
Billo, boy george, little dick, cunti and the rest are nothing more than sadomasochistic lunatics.....
Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 83:
"Do what you have to do to win!"
Yeah! String those Afghani taxi drivers up! Torture and kill the innocent scum taxi-driving farmer! Lie us into war! Kill! Kill! Kill! Wooooo! Republicans-family values! Woooo! Do what you have to do to win!
I'd be happy if this fellow left the country. He's sick.
How surprising! Liberals always know how to bring up the problems with the world but when it comes to solving them they always seem to crawl back into the little holes in the dirt they came from and smoke a joint!
Who put Hussein in power in the first place? Bush I and Rumsfeld. Whose fault is it?
You got a problem with “waterboarding”!?
Yes, because I am not a completely worthless asshole yet.
How would you recommend getting information from some military extremist?!
Actual police-style investigation has caught several potential domestic terrorists since 9-11. DHS-style bullshit has caught nothing and nobody, because it's not really meant to.
Hello???!!! It’s called WAR!!!! duh, sorry it doesn’t feel good to you! Get over it!
Maybe you violent, cowardly clowns shouldn't have started this war.
Do what you have to do to win! Do it as fast as possible!
We're gonna. We're gonna kick out all the neocons, we're gonna throw them in jail for war crimes, and then we're gonna start fixing all the stuff they fucked up in this country, like the budget, checks and balances, and restoring civil rights.
WE will win.
And had Liberal woosies like you, who snivel about waterboarding, shut your mouths the war in iraq would have been over years ago!
You idiot, we will never, ever leave. Your heroes told you we'd be in and out in a few months.
Quit saying how much you support the troops when all you try to do is tie their arms behind their backs!
No, YOU quit killing our boys with your pants-pissing terror-fear. Nobody needs what your bullshit nazi party is selling, remember what it is to be an American.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
Fucking Denise Miller wannabe.
If your so sure this is not acrimal activeitive, Try it on President Bush. Ask him, while being waterboarded, why instead of staying in Afganistan and finishing the job, he all of a sudden (all thought many people say it was his agenda even before we went to Afganistan), Started a War with Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11. 9/11 was the point of this war, wasn't it, it was the terrorist there that we were after wasn't it? Try Waterboarding the President, so we,THE PEOPLE of AMERICA, can finally know the truth. That is if this methed works at all, Bush is a top notch lier, you would have your hands full trying to get torture to work on him.
Someone should kidnap his bloated ego and waterboard him until the cows come home.
I'd bet he doesn't even last a minute before he soils himself...
Jacob Larson @ 39:
...actually, the war was never declared, so technically it is not a "war."
Well, without needing water boarding, this country managed to kick some nazi and Janese empire ass in half the time this farce has been going on. Therefore, it doesn't seem as if simulating the drowning of people is really speeding things much, is it?
Also, the US Army used to be bound by the Geneva Convention. Alas, with jackasses like you with no class, no honor, and no military experience to speak of... we are now at a level of moral standing that would make most of the WWII brass weep.
Thing Fish @ 88:
In conservative world the commons are always for sale to the highest bidder.
"We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture," said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess. -- WaPo
And that bit of common sense; on the house.
MountainMan23 @ 79:
...remember when the US was crying foul when that spy plane crew was captured by the Chinese in 2000 or 2001 (right after Boosh took over). Because, *gasp* they had showed them in TeeVee. And that was a no-no under Geneva Convention rules?
The US can dish it but does not have the stomach to take it seems...
fiver @ 83:
Nice reacharound. Don't apologize, I find them irresistible too. (8-D)
Kevin Simms @ 92:
Actually, he did not throw in some obscure reference, that upon further examination reveals that it has little to no correlation as an analogy. That seems to be Mr. Miller's style, this was plain knuckle dragger GOP troll.
Tyler Durden @ 100:
Denise Miller, not Dennis Miller.
Is Billo the reincarnation of Goebbels?
Seriously, what he is saying could have been said by any Nazi defending the use of torture.
..It’s called WAR!!!!..
... just what Goebbels would say.
Terrible @ 46 :
One thing you might want to notice in your post:
The Japanese officer got 15 years, the US soldier was discharged.
See anything wrong with that? You have to raise holy hell to get a US soldier put on trial for a war crime that would get people from other races/nationalities hung.
Imagine what it takes to get a conviction.
Worse for the people in power.
Just one of many reasons why the world does not like the US.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
I dunno, maybe I'm feeling masochistic today, but for some reason, I'm willing to assume Jacob's just misguided and ignorant, and NOT dumber than a sack of wet hammers. So I'll explain it to yam Jacob, please don't abuse my trust of you...
The general problem with being pro-torture is there's alwaysd an assumption that a: the tortured is definitely, without a doubt, a terrorist, and b: he definitely has information that could stop a terrorist attack. Now, were we to find bin Laden with blueprints for a dirty bomb and a partial list of targets, I can understand the desire to use whatever means necessary to find out which targets have bombs planted on them and when they're timed to blow. But that rarely happens. Which means that, when the US tortures, there's a good chance that the supposed terrorist will give up nothing or even that the supposed terrorist doesn't even know anything, or will confess to ANTYTHING just to get the torture to STOP. Many people in the military say torture is worthless because the information is often compromised - either the accused makes sh!t up to make things difficult or is so scared he'll confess to popping Jenna's cherry. We're to assume (so many assumptions today) that the US was able to stop some serious terrorist acts because of the 3 times they admit to waterboarding suspects, but of course, they can't tell us what those plans were, who was involved, how far along they were (shhhhhh! It's a secret!), we're left to say, well, the Administration has lied to us so many times, but this time they're being honest, I can FEEL it?
We've lost a lot of respect, a lot of inflence, a lot of political capital, within the global community because we tortured, and we lied about torturing, and then we admitted that we torture & that we'd do it again in a heartbeat. That only serves to hurt us when we make cases to go after other terrorist groups, other places in the world (unless of course, we don't really care about stopping terror as much as securing oil in this one oil-rich part of the world....naaaah, that can't be it). Politically, we're more isolationist than we've been since pre-World War II, yet economically, we've got our hands all up in everyone else's honey pot. It's a catastrophic cocktail, made worse every time another lie is exposed, another American virtue is betrayed or another right in the Constitution is ignored.
So many others like you luuuuuv the ticking time bomb scenario, use it to justify their pro-torture stance. Flip it over and look at it this way - you've got a definite terrorist who definitely knows a bomb's about to go off. He's more than ready to martyr himself for his cause because he's been told how decadent & evil America is. He ain't talking, period. We could torture - which would solve nothing, he;d either clam up or send us on a wild goose chase and the bomb goes off - OR we can try to quickly and efficiently get in the terrorist's head and get him to realize he's far better off with us than against us. Get him to realize we're not the monsters he's been to believe we are. Might not work, but who's to say torture definitely would? About all it will do is make the guy torturing feel good to know he inflicted pain on an enemy of the state, and the bpmb still goes off. Whoop-de-do.
There. Now you know. When it comes to torture, liberals or just independents who realize there's more than one way to achieve results. It might not satisfy YOUR particular idea of justice, but according to military leaders who know more about interrogation than you or I ever will, it saves more lives.
Sooooo...you know...don't say such stupid things any longer.
You're welcome.
Nice try slappy. But my money's on the wet hammers.
About 'ticking time bombs'... the people who make those arguments always say, "ANYONE would do the same thing in that situation."
Maybe so. If you really, really, really had a very, extra good hunch that this guy planted a mega-bomb in the city, and the only way to get the sekrit deactivation code was to torture him... if that EVER happened, maybe anyone WOULD do the same thing.
But if anyone would do the same thing, they would do it regardless of any anti-torture laws, wouldn't they. If they do some heroic torture gig and get prosecuted, they'll get pardoned, won't they.
Legalizing torture therefore ONLY ensures that torture WILL be used when it's NOT necessary.
Lest we forget these are people who rap themselves in explosives and push the button. I am sure I wouldn't stake my children's lives on any intel that waterboarding produces . I won't say that some intel might not be forthcoming valuable probably not
And if the bomb's about to go off... (it's "ticking" remember?) all the terrorist has to do is stall until it does... waterboarding is designed to wear people down OVER TIME, not get an instant confession with full details!
24 must rot people's brains, I really don't understand how anyone thinks this is some reasoned argument. It's fucking embarrassing to see grown people say such stupid, stupid shit.
Jacob Larsen @39:
How surprising! Liberals always know how to bring up the problems with the world but when it comes to solving them they always seem to crawl back into the little holes in the dirt they came from and smoke a joint! You got a problem with “waterboarding”!? Great. How would you recommend getting information from some military extremist?! Hello???!!! It’s called WAR!!!! duh, sorry it doesn’t feel good to you! Get over it! Do what you have to do to win! Do it as fast as possible! And had Liberal woosies like you, who snivel about waterboarding, shut your mouths the war in iraq would have been over years ago! Quit saying how much you support the troops when all you try to do is tie their arms behind their backs!
Congratulations! you just justified all the nazi and japanese war crimes during the second world war, not to mention all the other atrocities committed in other wars.
Oh, but I forgot, we're America and we pray to the invisible man in the sky who gives us permission to kill and torture people. But at the same time we have ban abortion and save the embryos. Makes perfect sense if you're a wingnut.
You know that Jacob Larson dude sounds exactly like the silly ass on the Mukasey torture thread who called himself Ryan and claimed to have thrown vietcong out of helicopters. He spewed the same nonsense in the same way. I thought that confessing to war crimes was a little bit odd but then I realized he was just some delusional putz who read too many Tom Clancy novels.
Dr. Matt @ 13:
Dr. Matt, that's an insult to horses everywhere.
Anyone notice a pattern with troll-trash like JL?
They seem to take just enough time away from surfing porn sites to toss worn out right-wing talking points (typed with one hand, naturally) into the dialog like hand grenades and then retreat back to their little green malkinite footballs, smug in the assumption they have done their part to defend and honor their unscrupulous war-criminal heros.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
WOW! You must've just seen the newest Rambo flick! Hooooahhhhhh!!!!!!! You sound like a real tough guy. Your blind faith in Busholini is well justified.
FYI it's called TORTURE and it DOESN'T WORK and it's ILLEGAL. Now, run along and go back to LGF.
goatsage @ 111:
Have you checked out the freepers lately? It's almost like they're handing out trolling homework over there in between posting vile threads about how arson at a mosque is a positive (that was the worst thing I've ever read over there, and that's saying a lot) and lamenting the loss of Fred Thompson and Duncan Hunter as GOP candidates.
Jacob Larson@39: Dropped your little troll bomb, and then ran away. You are a sorry ass.
Even Elizabeth the 1st sent some of her own people to the tower for waterboarding. We haven't learned anything since the 1500's.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1673270,00.html
I wonder why people on the right don't have a problem with how nicely these terrorists captured in Iraq are being treated.
It is quite a nice arrangement the Bush administration has with the Saudis.
Jacob Larson @ 39:
Yippee, a Bush supporter!!! Thought you people were all hidin' under yer beds cuz of dem dare terrists a comin.....How'd ya sneak out? Yer mom know yer online?
I am so sick of hearing this blather. Conservatives routinely ignore the dozen or so experts who have pointed out that torture is immoral, illegal and ineffective. It's not as if the case hasn't be proven, time and time again. In fact, it was proven long before the Bush administration decided to torture.
O'Reilly's job is much easier because he doesn't need to research anything, or even think about it, before he starts yelling.
I followed the link back to Larson's nutball central and found by reading the comments that about three people are regular posters and one of these appears to be his mother. She's posting from the upstairs computer.
I recently read George Piro's account of interrogating Saddam Hussein. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494.shtml That seems to be the correct way to do an interrogation. Establish trust and authority, and then carefully extract as much information as possible. Could all of this information have been gotten by waterboarding? No. Under torture, 2+2 equals whatever the torturer wants it to be. Instead of that, George Piro got all the info, and then tears and a hug from Saddam Hussein.
Actually he asked for that to be taken into consideration in his sentencing but then Cheney said "Er no I was playing at quale hunting on that knoll that day with my dads gun and er, well, lets just say I didn't see him!"
Waterboarding, and torture generally, does work - to bring pain and terror to a targeted population, causing them to fear the consequences of opposing the torturers. That's why the US and its proxy torturers have made a practice of leaving torture-mutilated bodies by roadsides in public view. It does not work to get information; a second's reflection will tell you that if your lungs are being filled with water or your toenails are being pulled out, you'll say anything to get the pain to stop.
And notice O'Riley's phrase "terror suspects." The word "suspects" ought to make anyone balk at the thought of nearly drowning someone or running volts of electricity through their genitals. If they're suspects, that means you don't know if they've done anything worthy of prosecution, and certainly nothing worthy of the sadistic cruelties the US is notorious for. But Americans have gotten used to their own hometown police murdering people and then getting away with it by saying they thought the victim might have stolen something or by saying they thought a candy bar was a gun. Americans by and large give the same free murder-and-torture pass to their beloved troops. Makes 'em feel so much safer knowing that innocent dark-skinned people are being put through hellish pain and death for no reason, just like it makes 'em feel safer knowing that thousands of innocent Black men are in jail in their own country.
Do you feel safer knowing name, rank and [social security] number are all that’s required of a captured [US soldier]?
If this were a statement made by another country, we would be pissed off. And, later, the international community would try the offending country for war crimes. I am glad to know that BillO makes it that much easier for other countries to rationalize torturing my husband if he were a POW. Fuck you O'Reilly. You are scum.
Torture is illegal and immoral no matter who does it and who it is done to.
It must be terrible for a supreme egotist to watch himself slipping into insignificance on a daily basis. It could not happen to a nicer guy.
How dare you compare me with a journalist?
goatsage @ 44:
Absolutely correct. They have a difficult enough time pretending they have hard ons.
Dr. Acula @ 112:
but...but...but.... it works in the movies and teevee!!!!!
FYI to the trolls, it works there because the writers write them that way. I wonder if the RW trollkins believe that Santa, the easter bunny and Ronnie Raygun are real too.
Of course torture works, the Spanish Inquisition had a 100% success rate identifying heretics. I have no doubt that every suspect we have waterboarded broke down and confessed that they were charter members of Al Queda. They named names, revealed secrect plots and admitted their undying love for Osama and hatred of Americas goodness. They also promise to go back and spread the word of our wonderful freedoms if we will just let them go but we know they are lying about that so we keep them locked up.
39 Jacob Larson
Whatever happened to Sodium Pentethal and/or hypnosis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkYSDYDc8mE
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