Countdown: Former NSA Director Picks Apart Petraeus, Crocker Propaganda
By Logan Murphy Monday Apr 07, 2008 8:40pm
C&L has been covering today's testimony from General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker on Capitol Hill about the progress in Iraq. As always, the best analysis of the day comes from Keith Olbermann on Countdown.
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Keith spoke with former Director of the NSA retired Lt. General William Odom, who says that Petraeus & Crocker's testimony did little more than confirm what he has believed all along -- that the situation in Iraq is actually worse than is being reported. Odom praised members of the Senate who finally pushed back hard against the Bush/McCain surge propaganda, but scorned the media for failing to report the realities in Iraq.
Odom:"The major media in this country have also, I think, failed to report a lot about what's going in Iraq. True, there have been drops in violence, but they didn't look at what the consequences of that were, and they didn't look at the politics of that. If they had looked at the politics they'd see more fragmentation, a weaker government and a much more hopeless situation than a year ago."
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This is an illegal occupation.
Why does every retired official always have this blinding vision and suddenly see the error of the system after they retire,
shoundnt they be working to fix the system and restore democracy and rule of law when they are in their job.
ferrofluid @ 2:
let's take a close look at this........oh, yes bush threatens or pushes everyon
who opposes his
reality basedidea of war.Damn their black hearts!!
Mr. Burns: "Smithers, who's that wearing the PINK SHIRT?"
Smithers: "That's Keith Olberman, sir, from MSNBC."
Mr. Burns: "Well whoever he is, he's obviously some kind of FREE THINKING ANARCHIST! Weariing a PINK SHIRT, INDEED! Have security haul him off to Guantanamo at once!"
Bush should shed a tear over that dead soldier. He killed him. Even if the tear was for the cameras.
dadams @ 3:
Good job we have Nancy and her table on the job.
George is a fake.
Military brass can't be trusted. Some say one thing, others, something else. Why Betrayus is putting everything on the line for a President who doesn't deserve it, is the real shame in this. Our young men and women are dying for what? End this madness now! Our soldiers deserve better.
jeebus H christ... can we just nuke Iran and get Lieberman's wet dream over with?
LIEberman: "Are the Iranians still training Iraqi extremist who are killing American soldiers?"
Do you still beat your wife?
Me thinks Hillary doth protest to much. She voted for the war and has yet to apologize for her vote.
Olbermann and the pink ties...what's the psychology there?
Oh, pictures *don't* matter? Tell that to Michael Shaw, at BAGnews.
The folks at the networks (last time I checked, MSNBC was still lame-stream) understand imagery. Understand the psychology of colors, shapes, movement within The Frame. And after all, the network heads must be geniuses because not only do they foist drooling cretins like Tweetie Matthews and Timmeh Russert on the TV-addled crowd, they've also got Maestro Amato & Co. regurgitating the talking head line to the Nettizens. Just in case someone managed to resist the pull of HDTV and ten minute stretches of moronic commercials.
You get it either way, from tee wee or from Signore Amato. Funny how that works. Almost by design, one would almost say.
The trusting eyes open, and the images flow in at a rate too fast for the conscious mind to regulate, weigh, measure against experience and common sense. It's all in the subconscious, folks. All in the subconscious.
A pink, screeching, clowning Olbermann....whose agenda does THAT serve?
Keith is always so dramatic! Gives me goosebumps, I just wish he would tell me something!
Ruthless People @ 6:
Timing is everything(as far as bush is concerned). This was the third Medal of Honor
awarded since invasion of Iraq; one in 2004 and another in 2005, and now a third;
just coincidentally issued today..with tears and all. What a phony..
Dog and pony show. Congress will still give The Regime all of our tax dollars they want for this war. Impeachment will remain off the table.
So how did the LYING game go for Gen. BETRAYUS?
Sounds like the gig is up for those LIARS.
Bush is abusing American soldiers. It's as simple as that.
There is no excuse for the incompentence, lies and arrogance that Mr. Bush has perpetrated on this nation.
He is a criminal, who should be arrested. I do not consider that man to be my president. As far as I'm concerned we don't have a legitimate president right now. Bush and his regime are bringing America to her knees.
Our roads and bridges are collapsing, our water pipes and levees are collapsing, the once proud Dollar is collapsing. The only thing going up is gas prices, skyrocketing beyond belief.
Fuck Bush and anyone who supports that monster.
whatever happened to the time when generals actually led their troops to battle. patraeus should be in the streets of Iraq charging sadr city with the troops, not in the heavily fortified green zone politicking.
FunMe @ 17:
Wish that were true, but they'll be back 45 days after the end of July, and give
us more of the same old, same old BS.
FunMe @ 17:
You'd think, wouldn't you? I've thought that many times over the last 7 1/2 years. I have never been so wrong so many times. These pricks are MADE of teflon.
Congress ought to be questioning the "decider guy" Busy, not Betrayus. Gen. Betrayus is just the yes man.
Leslie @ 22:
Whoops, meant decider guy Bush.
Why is Petraeus pushing the Bush Plan? Simple. When this war started he had two stars on each shoulder. Now he has four. One star for every thousand under his command who have died. I guess he feels compensated. Another 1000 dead Americans in uniform and he may get another star. He will be another MacArthur. You just have to ignore the collateral damage and focus on what matters.
Doggiebobo @ 20:
By the way, doing a little math, and as I quickly calculate, the 45 days after July 31st,would result in next hearing to be on about 9/11/08. Wonder
if another turrist threat or attack just might, coincidentally, be about that time.
Where is Bush? Cheney must be keeping him busy with Legos and coloring books in the Whitehouse romper room.
I think Cheney stuffs Bush in his man-size safe sometimes.
Doggiebobo @ 25:
Oh, you mean when we have the Democratic nominee running against McSame? Yes, I have those dates marked on my calendar too. [sarcasm mine]
Patraeus and Crocker are not running the war. Bush is. They are merely puppets sent out to act as mouth pieces. Congress knows this. If they admit they know it, they'll have to do something about it. They are not going to do anything, so we continue this kabuki theater.
This is it. We are in it now for good. This is what comes of taking impeachment off the table. This is what comes of letting the administration push the "surge" in the face of the ISG. This is what comes of taking the "wait and see" stance when confronted with naked criminality.
"So?"
To wit: we are now all inured to it. Even if we get to 99% of people saying that they oppose the war, these people WILL NOT CARE.
"So?"
Look, they can't care. Democracy has been a fun little ride, but playtime is over. Those Arabs are on top of OUR OIL and WE WILL TAKE IT and THAT IS IT.
"So?"
We'll call it "reconstruction," we'll call it "Iraqi freedom," we'll call it "working with our coalition partners to stabilize the region."
We all know what will happen if McCains wins. That's no mystery. But if it's Clinton or Obama, mark my fucking words, on "day one" we'll start hearing the explanations for why the "surge/pause/resurge/unpause/flex/twist/bend/stretch/poke/relax/stand up/sit down/cha cha cha" hokey pokey will have to continue...for "six more months."
"So?"
The will of the people is laughable. All that matters is the will of a half-dozen soccer moms and NASCAR dads in key "battleground" neighborhoods in Ohio and Florida. Everyone else is already counted and assigned to red or blue.
Next election, candidates will take to outright bribery, handing $100 to anyone who shows up to vote for them in these areas.
And even then, it won't matter who wins or who loses. The era of "the Democrats are not as bad as the Republicans" is coming to an end because EVERYONE is a savage when the food runs out on the lifeboat.
And the food...oil...is running out. Fast.
JasonS @ 29:
It's not that people don't care. It's that Cheney and the political elite in DC, the serious people, will say: "So!" That's what makes the will of the people laughable. Then you have the "serious" pundits, such as Cokie Roberts, agreeing that polls don't matter, that the will of the people doesn't matter, because serious people know that America wants to win the war in Iraq. Nevermind that no one can define what winning is. Nevermind that Cokie is outright lying when she says that's what America wants. Again, this is what makes the will of the people laughable. It's not the people!
It's the Supreme Court in 2000, it's Diebold and ES&S in 2000, 2004, 2006 and probably 2008, it's the MSM that goes along with this BS, it's the political elites in DC who ignore us!
stock up on holy water and wooden stakes, folks.
these vampires aren't going to give up their feeding frenzy without a struggle.
JasonS @ 29:
you are very wise little grasshopper the worms have all turned!
> It’s not that people don’t care. It’s that Cheney and the political elite in DC,
> the serious people, will say: “So!”
That's what I meant by "these people," Cheney et al. The American People(tm) actually care a great deal, but it's become obvious at this point that nothing short of violent revolution or mass defection to third parties will even get the attention of the people in power, and that ain't likely to happen.
if obama voted against more funding and explained to the american people his reasoning, the american people would have his back. remember, a large majority of americans now believe the iraqi invasion and subsequent occupation wasa mistake. hell, even alan greenspan admitted it was for the oil.
come to think of it, obama's going to have to give a speech after voting on more funding either way, especially if he votes FOR more funding, and then hillary, in a desperate move to save her campaign, votes against more funding.
let's hope obama's ready to cut the junkies off and get 'em started down the path of rehab.
sometimes i wish admiral fallon would pick davy petreaus [Deleted-Sitemonitor]
So were loosing because we are winning, alittle Orwell libs??
The Ambassador is supposed to be a professional liar. The General however has crossed the line and is not fit for command. What line you ask, why the line from being a soldier or being a politician. The Pentagon has become to politically active for the safety of our Constitution and the barriers of separation must be restored quickly or The USA is a footnote in history of how a once great nation became a fascist nation of warmongering profiteers.
PEACE & Impeachment by POPULAR Demand!
Great interview!! Some other suggestions for tonight are Keith's Bushed segment and the McCain supporter calling Obama Tiger Woods right before McCain hugged him and took the mic. McCain can't separate himself from this speaker.
Betrayus and Crock-r-shit strike again. How pathetically transparent. I like the Boosh sobbing bit: heightens the sense of drama. They're all schmucks.
chris @ 36:
i got something you can sit on chris its a colon cleaner at least youll think it is!
tyree @ 40:
What is this? Is this the best you can do?? No wonder the American people will never trust you with national security............
chris @ 36:
There's two things that might help you communicate with better clarity, Chris.
Anti-psychotic drugs and spell check.
Odom was on PBS tonight as well. They "balanced " things by putting PNAC neocon Fred Kagan on. Odom spoke from his heart, and Kagan spoke from his colostomy bag. So PBS viewers got both sides! Yay!
chris @ 41:
C'mon chris. Rise to your own high standards: "...C&L is a respectable blog and we don’t need that here, now if you can’t contribute to the conversation intellectually then move on…." chris
Here's the link chris, where you said it. I stand by my comments, it's only natural you'd be expected to stand by yours, chris
chris @ 36:
No, we're losing because we're losing...don't you get it yet? We can't "win", whatever that means anymore, someone else's civil war. We can't "win" by being occupiers; look what that did to the Germans of the 1940s. So until someone can define "winning" in terms that do not involve bleeding our nation dry of blood, sweat, tears and money, just sit down and let the adults take over.
General Odom: Rapid Withdrawal Is Only Solution
General Odom is intelligent, experienced, Republican, conservative, and actually knows what he's talking about. However, since he does not agree with this Administration's disastrous policies, nobody in Washington will pay any attention to what he has to say.
chris @ 48:
curiousme @ 8:
No shit.
The good news is - the next President can change any treaty at will - as our word is worthless due to this administrations example....
senator lieberman, is it not true your very sustenance depends on the daily consumption of reptilian blood?
Oh my god Keith! A pink shirt AND a pink tie???????
One of them has to go. Please, please promise never to make this mistake again!
And thank you for the excellent and necessary segment on the BS hearings today.
*
bullfrog @ 53:
I always love to find a fellow C&L'er privvy to the reptillian theory. To answer your question: Yes, and don't forget babies.
I remember seeing Odom discussing military actions against the Serbs and in defense of the Albanians in Kosovo. He was so wrong on his assessment of that situation that it is hard for me to just buy into anything he says. Concerning Kosovo, he never even considered the possibility that the war could be fought from the air. He talked incessantly about how difficult it was going to be to take tanks into Kosovo and that therefore we should not go in at all. He was way off then. Is he way off now? I do not know. What I do know is that even a man of his credentials is fallable and his position on an issue should not be assumed correct because of those credentials.
Any chance that the 45-day "consolidation and evaluation" period will be used to draw any assessment closer to the November election (the following assessment would be in September), and at this time there will suddenly be "light at the end of the tunnel" to convey a sense of success to the American people and a feather in the cap of the Republican administration?
Most Americans want a timetable for withdrawal.
This is why McDumbass will lose in November.
Does anyone know who those two intimidating gentle men behind Petraeus are?
I really like KO, but he stumbled a bit when he said Bush had awarded the "Medal of Freedom" to the heroic sailor. What he meant to say is that the Petty Officer was awarded the "MEDAL OF HONOR". The Medal of Freedom is the highest award given to a CITIZEN vice member of the armed services.
I spent a couple of hours listening to the senate hearings and had to get out of the house when Lieberman started his insulting, scripted "questions". Additionally, with all the yes or no questions placed before Petraeus and Crocker, it appeared as if those words no longer exist in their vocabulary. It is no wonder we have so much trouble getting anything done in Iraq as quibbling seems to take the place of true leadership.
Obama supporters - Obama said in the hearing that he favored a timeline and Hillary said she favored an immediate withdrawal. I wish you guys would listen and watch what he actually does. He has not supported ANY PLAN (Murtha, etc) to withdraw or pushed for it as a senator (neither has Hillary). We let our most progressive, best chance at getting elected candidate hang out to dry-Edwards.
I am so sick of hearing about "progress" in Iraq I could scream. How much more "progress" can we afford, in lives and money? 100 years worth, maybe? Idiots.
I appreciate the comment Gen. Odom made about the press not doing its part in countering the lies and propaganda.
Petreaus & Crocker are 2 slimey P'sOS. I'll give Petreaus about a week in uniform after the inauguration.
Boycott elections, we have no representation unless you are a demon.
I wish Mr. Olbermann would strive for this sort of tenor in his reporting more often - it gives him far more credibility than the goofy partisan humor he's increasingly begun to use.
Don't get me wrong - 99% of the time, I agree with his slant on things. But I think he'd have a better chance convincing people of the absurdities of the current regime if he didn't stoop to their level.
Thanks C&L, I appreciate you showing these clips. I stopped tuning in to KO when he went beyond the pale and did his "special comment" on Hillary Clinton which was nothing more than a 10 min. trashing. His program was really no longer the place to get news without listening to a verbal assault on Hillary or a verbal bj on Obama. There is a lot to be said for at least having the appearance of neutrality if you consider yourself a newsman. All comparisons to Edward R. Murrow are no longer appropriate and he really should stop with the Good Night & Good Luck as it is now an insult to a real newsman.
To continue, General Petraus is no longer a military man - he is a four-star politician and I hope he will pay for his war crimes right along with Bush, Cheney and the rest of the neo-cons. Nothing more really needs to be said about Ambassador Crock'O Crap.
They will both be back in September to loudly proclaim all the progress made by the surge and it will be heard far and wide by the really stupid American voters and boost McCrazy for November. This political theatre just writes itself now.
What really strikes me is Petraeus talking about how well the Iranians have trained the "Special Groups." One has to wonder why the Iranians are so successful at training the Iraqis to fight while the U.S. is so singularly unsuccessful. Maybe the way to get us out of there is to send our trainers to Iran to be trained as trainers by the Iranians.
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