Petraeus/Crocker Testimony, Part II--This Time It's The House
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi had this to say after Petraeus' and Crocker's testimony yesterday:
It is clear from today’s testimony by General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker that the Iraqi government remains unwilling or unable to take the steps necessary to reach the political reconciliation needed to secure their country’s future.
General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker made it official that the Bush Administration will not reduce the number of U.S. troops in Iraq below pre-surge levels. That is not a policy that appropriately reflect the enormous costs of the war in Iraq, nor what the American people want.
The human cost of the war has been enormous, with more than 4,000 lives lost and tens of thousands injured, many of them permanently. The cost to our national security has been immense – our military readiness is stretched thin and our reputation in the world is damaged. And now, the trillion dollar war in Iraq is damaging our economy by taking us deeper into debt.
The Iraqi government is not worthy of the sacrifice of our troops or the cost that the war is having on our readiness and our economy. We need a New Direction in Iraq, but what General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker offered today was many more years of the same.
Also: The Cost of War in Iraq: Numbers That Add Up
Open thread below
Why doesn't Pelosi count the Iraqi dead in the "human cost" of the war? No wonder the rest of the world hates us.
Pelosi and her minions will publicly blow these guys and hand them new checkbooks!!
Colleagues in war crimes should get along!!
What right does Pelosi have for saying anything. All she has to do is refuse to bring Bush's war money requests up or a vote and it will end. If she thinks those numbers are unacceptable, she needs to do the right thing even if it is politically frightening.
"The Iraqi government is not worthy of the sacrifice of our troops"
How true! But don't forget - the oil rights are!
That is not a policy that appropriately reflect the enormous costs of the war in Iraq, nor what the American people want. (quote Nancy Pelosi)
What does Pelosi care about what the American people want? We have made it known over and over that we want impeachment of Bush/Cheney and she takes it off the table. If she had listened to the American people a year ago we would be on our way to a putting these criminals behind bars. Pelosi is no friend of the Democrats.
Here we go again! Another dance of futility. They march in and tell them we need another six months. Meanwhile our soldiers fight, yet another day, in a bloody civil war. Our military is breaking, finacially were doomed, And the Iraqi ministry has billions in oil revenues. We have been played for suckers. Thank you Georgie and the 109th congress.
And....we're surprised by this?
And the Lame Stream Media did not make mention of Pelosi's statement. I commend her for her words but, given her inaction on impeachment, I'm afraid they're just words once again.
All talk and no action.
Its over. We are stuck. America will go broke and China and Russia will buy us out. Oh wait, they are doing that already.
why do i have an uncontrollable urge to yawn every time Pelosi opens her mouth these days?
It's not just that we're not holding the Iraqi government to any standards, we're not holding ourselves to any standards. Six more months, and then we'll decide. Six more months, and then we'll decide. We need a bigger majority, and then we'll decide.
Nice talk madam Speaker. However , no respect from this corner until impeachment is on the table!
pongo @ 1:
Was thinking the exact same thing, but I guess they don't count, only american deaths are horrendous, the rest are necessary sacrifices to water the tree of freedom.
Just stop funding the damn thing. We obviously have no money, our equipment is deteriorating, The troops are over-extended. But in order to do that. The Democrats have to show some spine. Opps, I forgot they have none.
The 'Iraqi government remains unwilling or unable…'
Iraq is an occupied country, the government that exists now, which has a relation to us, is not the government that will be when Iraq is no longer occupied.
I don't think I can take another day of the surge twins. There's a bs limit to everything.
Obama was right, if we can't get it right over there in seven years, why do we think we can do it in fourteen years?
let's add this to the stockpile of crap:
In Justice Shift, Corporate Deals Replace Trials
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/washington/09justice.html?_r=1&hp&oref...
absolutely the worst administration ever...bushco. has set the bar so low, that stories like this don't even phase anyone anymore....
bring them home!
Nancy Pelosi should NOT chastise anybody about the occupation of Iraq. She was voted into office to stop the occupation but her along with all the other democrats totally abandoned that. Some apologists say that they are not to blame because of Bush vetoing everything, but that is a fallacy. Congress can STOP THE FUNDING ANYTIME THEY WANT.
Anyway, another atrocious thing about Pelosi is that she ALSO thinks that only 4,000 troops have died in the Iraq occupation, when in reality over 15,000 troops have died as a result of the occupation.
I'm watching this show on C-SPAN right now and I'm hoping Wexler's going to blow em' out of the water.
Percentage of xoites who think we should stay one more day in Iraq: 0.
You know what? I have seen nothing on MSM about Iraq, you know, the country. Oh, their going on and on about Betrayus. But nothing about the lock-down in Bagdad. Bunch of trolls!
P.D. @ 22:
That is what democracy is all about; shutting down anti US demonstrations!
The General and the Ambassador make it sound,... Like , ..we won.
This is what always gets me about the Bush Administration, Congress and a majority of the American people for that matter. We always see Iraq from an almost colonial perspective. We say "The Iraqi Government isn't doing enough or they won't do enough to secure political reconciliation." or we say "The Iraqis forces just won't fight the Shia Iraqis. I wonder why?" To me, the answer is pretty obvious. Flip that around and put yourself in the shoes of the Iraqis. If the same thing where happening here in the United States and an outside, occupying country (and I don't care what they claim they are there for) put up a stooge Government in the White House and backed it would we view that Government as American? I certainly wouldn't. If that is the case, then why do we expect the Iraqis to support that Government that Pelosi is talking about?
Drew @ 19:
Where you getting your numbers from Drew? Are they just popping out of your behind?
I mean if it was 15,000 then where are those figures hiding, why does no one but you know that. or are you mixing the 90's Desrt Storm with the 2003 blunder.
They want the troops to remain in Iraq so later sayyyyyyyy in August? September?...near the elections??..when Isreal blows Iran to hell,,we can send in our troops to help clean up...oh and yes ..bring Democracy...get ready people a Coup is coming...
Joe O. @ 25:
I take serious exception to your comment! The word "almost" does not belong!
Do these jerks get sworn in? Does it mean ANYTHING to these God fearing christians when they are sworn in? Or are they under some executive order to freely lie to the public, for the good of the republic, of course.
xoites defends Constitution @ 28:
Agreed. My mistake. I guess I was hoping that there are some that don't hold that colonial perspective. Sadly, it is few and far between.
A wee bit off topic but telling. I just saw a clip on fox of McCain being interviewed and he was talking about Iran. He said, they continue to talk about their nuclear (pause) I forget what it is but......
He's concerned about Iran's nuclear something but he can't remember what it is that is?
Your right Bob, I remember when Bush was sworn in. He place his hand on a bible and swore to abide to the Constitution. Then spent the last 7 years slowly destroying it. Aren't our leaders great!
Shut up Nancy, and do your Constitutional duty: IMPEACH
Betrayus said he could not yet "see the light at the end of the tunnel" regarding reaching certain objectives in Iraq. He failed to mention that he thinks George Bushes rectum is the tunnel and that he has his head so far up it currying favor, he'll never be able to see the light.
This hearing will be on CSPAN at 1:30 pm EST.
Rep. Wexler actually emailed thousands of Americans asking what questions we would like for him to ask. His questioning of Crocker and Petraeus should be particularly riveting.
What a shame nothing will come of it.
Patricia, The man is a fool. He if wins the election. We can kiss our collected asses good-bye.
Tsk tsk. You're all forgetting that we were assured by the Politburo in LA a few months ago that Nancy was not going to authorize another dime for the war.
Oh, wait...
OK, that didn't work out but WILL work for sure is another sternly worded letter to Duhbya and "Dick". You go Nancy!
None of the cable shows are airing the hearings here right now, not even c-span. Maybe they are having mercy on us.
There were a couple of questioners I did want to hear this morning. Ike Skelton is one hell of a smart man when it comes to military stuff. He had polio as a kid and couldn't join the military so he spent his life reading and learning all about it. In one of the books I read about the Iraq invasion the author said Skelton was the one to go to if you wanted information about battles and the military.
P.D. @ 36:
I agree! His mistakes could be deadly.
♣Bangkok Bob♠ @ 26:
The US military does not include soldiers that have committed suicide, they do not include those soldiers that have been mortally wounded in Iraq and shipped out to bases in Germany and elsewhere where they have later died.
That 4,000 number is the number of soldiers that have died IN Iraq.
A number of investigative reports have shown this. One of them is CBS.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/oct/29/iraq.suzannegoldenberg
http://www.atheistagenda.org/node/733
http://welttag.blogspot.com/2007/11/15000-soldiers-kill-by-irak-war.html
marko @ 2:
Pelosi's cleared the impeachment table and stacked it with cash.
You know, if you're kid spends too much time and money at the mall, you ground him, and take away his credit card or allowance. So why can't Pelosi be a good mother and do the same to the shrub?
Sorry, but Pelosi has NO credibility in her anti-war rhetoric. You can't be against something on one hand while you continue to pay for it with the other. You can't stand up against Bush as the bad guy when you are helping him do bad things.
I had high hopes when we put the Democrats in charge of Congress, but those hopes are entirely gone. They have done little of value, and NOTHING of value regarding the war. When Pelosi decided that impeachment was "off the table," she decided the Constitution was "off the table," too. She deserves to lose her career at the next election--not quite a war criminal, but she's definite sympathizing with America's two top enemies: Bush and Cheney.
Impeach them all! Kick them all out of Washington and start fresh!
I'm sorry, but Pelosi is tainted by her refusal to bring Bushco to account for their crimes. She's too deeply complicit for her posturing to have any credibility. Until she decides to fulfil her oath of office and her duty to the Constitution she needs to STFU.
This is how I bet things are actually happening in Iraq:
*Iraqi boys are playing soccer on a street when an Iraqi or U.S. patrol drives by and the U.S. troops in that patrol stop to talk*
U.S. soldier with Iraqi interpreter: Hey boys, everything all right here? Looks like a great game.
Iraqi boy: Hi, ya we are having fun do you have any candy?
U.S. solider with Iraqi interpreter: Sure! Here ya go!
*Soldiers continue patrol and the boy runs to get his cell phone. Boy calls nearby fighters*
Iraqi boy: Hi, a patrol just drove by. There are about 2 APCs, several HUMVEEs with heavily armed soldiers and traitors coming your way.
Fighter: Could you identify the weapons?
Iraqi boy: M-16s, M-4s, AK-47s, and maybe an AT-4 plus .50 cal. machine guns mounted on the vehicles.
Fighter: Thanks, keep an eye out as there are other traitors watching.
It is this type of scenario that Petraeus will never report and I bet similar events happen many times a day in Iraq.
Was this her "sternly worded letter" ? shrub co. must be reeling. Hey nancy you might want to mention your part in this continuing atrocity Mz. "impeachment is off the table". Thanks for nothing you ineffectual door mat.
shut up, nancy. you are complicit in these crimes.
what are you going to do about it nancy? nothing is what you're going to do about it.... time for you to stfu!
I once had faith in Pelosi. Yeah, and I also thought John Kerry would win in 2004. Now who is the fool?
CONGRATULATIONS, X-MAN!!!!!!!!!!!
From an admirer!
If I hear the words 'New Direction' again from the Dems, I think I am going to puke. And I am a Dem. What is next, a stern letter from Reid?
here's what we need Nance. We need a TRUE opposition party. One that will call out the war criminals for what they are and prosecute them to the full extent of the law.
Yeah via, Reid shows his nerve with a strongly worded letter! Now that's Balls! Useless, aren't they?
Watching Bush now. He's signing the "Second Chance" Bill. How about "Help Americans hold on to their Homes" Bill?
Pelosi's been sounding more like the progressive we used to know.
Guess Cindy Sheehan's keeping up the heat and letting Ms. Nancy know that her congressional seat isn't safe, either. San Francisco was the first city in the nation to pass a resolution against the Iraq war and everything Nancy's done since then has been directly against the wishes of her constituency.
Well gee Nancy, if ONLY you had some sort of power, some sort of remedy, some influence, to be used in an effort to change the direction of the war you so detest. Of course, you DO have that power: you simply are too scared and selfish to use it, lest you lose your precious position. Sickening nonsense.
eh OT but got tired of waiting for an open thread :D
Though this was kinda funny
Hillary says Memphis National Champ Despite KU Having More Points
Nancy's brother Tommy D'Allessandro III was the mayor of Baltimore some forty years ago.
He hid in his office for 8 years.
It's genetic.
It's truly depressing, the number of people on here who just keep screeching for impeachment without actually realising what the process would entail, or what the stakes would be if the Senate chose (as they likely would) to acquit Bush and/or Cheney.
Let's lay it out really simply. Even if they brought articles of impeachment against them on the day they were sworn in in 2006, the legal maneouvering involved would mean that even if successful and the Senate convicted, their removal would be in the last few days of Bush's term. It is simply too late now.
Secondly, the Senate is much more conservative than the House and you can bet your bottom dollar that with Lieberman holding the casting vote, the Senate would acquit. If that happened it would leave Bush and Cheney legally vindicated. Think about that for a second.
Everyone seems to think impeachment is something that is over quickly - it isn't. People remember Nixon's humiliating resignation, but that's the point - he resigned and was never impeached. Impeachment is what happened to Bill Clinton and it took ages, plus a committed group of GOP hitmen agitating for his impeachment since trhey day they arrived in office only two years into his term!
Drew @ 40:
Thanks Drew
We're looking at the face of a man with no personal integrity.
And isn't that one of the saddest things an individual can know about themselves?
*
Drew @ 40:
Thanks for the links Drew, of course your right. I just wanted to know where you got the numbers. This blog looks foolish if we don't put up links to back what we say.
marko @ 2:
Pelosi might as well walk a wheelbarrow filled with cash in there - park it in front of him and fling armload after armload of money at him.
Someone should do a commercial with exactly that scene depicted in it.
*
Jesus Bangkok Bob, That is truly depressing. What a tragedy.
Drew,
Do you honestly think it would be beyond Bush to keep the military there even if Congress cut off funding? Remember that the corporations have their own private military in Blackwater.
"It is clear from today’s testimony by General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker that the Iraqi government remains unwilling or unable to take the steps necessary to reach the political reconciliation needed to secure their country’s future." Nancy Pelosi
Nancy should apply her empty rhetoric to herself. If she is unwilling or unable to take the steps necessary to impeach Bush and his war-criminal cronies, then she needs to step down. The Dems are SO gutless; they seem to like to live up to what the Repugs say about them.
JPsy @ 59:
Thank you. You explained that very well and succinctly. All if us would like to see Bush out, but we will just have to wait until 2009.
JPsy @ 59:
You seem to forget that impeachment is not a political remedy to an electoral mistake -- it's a LEGAL remedy. The law doesn't wait. If they are under impeachemnt they day they leave office, they are ON FUCKING TRIAL. That is what we are waiting for. The rule of law to be re-asserted.
And Pelosi has had multiple chances to yank a knot in this arrogant fuckers' tails by simply ending war funding. Hasn't happened.
SHE ISN'T DOING SHIT. And I'm so sick of watching these same lying assholes parade the same asshole lies in front of the TV cameras every six months that I want to punch someone.
I wish the Democrats would remember that the situation in Iraq is OUR fault. I object to Pelosi's comment that the Iraqi government isn't 'worthy' of our sacrifice. Maybe the government isn't, but the people are. While I totally objected to the war and I object to just about everything the Bush administration does, we can't forget that we were not dragged into this conflict; we started it. So it is our responsibility to repair it. Maybe a withdrawal is the best way to start the healing, but the costs are just starting to roll in. We'll be paying for this for years to come and we should too. We destroyed their country and we can't forget that. And as much as we want the troops home and the violence to stop and the costs to go down, we have reparations to pay. Germany only just finished paying reparations for WWII so maybe in 60 years we can finally be done paying Iraq back for the injustice we inflicted on them.
The next prez has some fuckin mess to clean up
Lucy @ 69:
You can't say we if you were not involved in making the decision to invade Iraq. I was not involved, was against it from the beginning and knew it was about oil.
slippy hussein toad @ 68:
And what good would that do? The penalty for being convicted of an impeachable offence is removal from office. They're already out of office.
Again, even without the power of veto, do you think Bush is beyond forcing the troops to stay there even after funding is cut off? The cries from the Right-Wing Noise Machine saying "The Democrats Have Abandoned The Troops!" would be going 24/7. The whole situation is a massive Catch-22 for this session of Congress - they simply don't have the numbers in the Senate to behave aggressively this time out.
Cutting off funds now will do nothing to stop this war. If dems would try to impeach shrub now, McCrazy will be the next president. Dems have never been in the position to realistically do either of these two things. Their only hope, is to gain more seats in the house and senate, and win the white house. Maybe then, if the public holds them accountable, will we see justice done to the facists of the bush admin.
JPsy @ 72:
To answer your question of "what good will that do?"
Well, it will send a message to America, the world, and present/future politicians. No, you can not lie about a war, perpetrate a false-flag terrorist attack, torture people, suspend habeas corpus, spy on your citizens, steal elections, follow an illuminati agenda, etc.
It isn't simply about removing them from power, it's about sending a message and setting a legal precedent. If nothing is done, we will have dictators from here on out.
SassySandy @ 67:
Unfortunately this is the truth.
♣Bangkok Bob♠ @ 26:
The official count consists of US Military Personnel that actually died in Iraq.
If they are still alive when the chopper leaves the ground, then they are counted as having died in Germany.
Adding in the deaths reported at Walter Reed gives us 15,000.
Joe O. @ 45:
Except that we've heard testimony that our soldiers don't talk to the locals anymore. They speed through towns, ramming cars our of the way and running over pedestrians if they are too slow.
Our soldiers aren't safe in public in Iraq.
Frank Dufek @ 74:
Well good, we'll send a message to the world, and we'll end up with four more years of the same shit in McCrazy. Then we can have this same debate all over again, by trying to impeach McCrazy.
Pelosi is going to blink herself into a stooper at these hearings.....then give them all of our tax dollars and the blood of our soldiers they ask for.
Frank Dufek @ 74:
Ah, I see I'm dealing with one of our saner posters here.
So it would appear that you believe impeachment hearings will vindicate the 9/11 Troofers and prove the existence of the Illuminati, and that's why you'd rather spend millions of dollars on that rather than trying to repair the damage that the Bush Administration has done?
I must respectfully disagree.
JPsy @ 72:
No, Impeachment is like an indictment. It doesn't remove a person from office. but it opens up the process to allow this procedure.
If Bush were impeached for High Crimes and Misdemeanors, then he could face trial on these counts after being removed from office. Lesser men could face execution if convicted of the crimes that Bush has committed. If we actually were a nation of laws, he'd be facing life in prison by now.
Dr. Acula @ 75:
Nope, expect a false-flagger or Iran invasion this summer. Bush ain't going NOWHERE. Call me negative, call me insane just don't say I didn't warn you. I'm not saying this based on some fictional idea either, there are Congressmen, jorunalists, scholars, etc. who all share the same fears that I do.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24358
Yes, these same stories were around for the 2004 election. The only difference now is that there is no second-term to quietly steal. This time it will have to be a bold takeover. Be prepared.
The WTC attacks were not false-flag, and the worst they could do to Iran is bomb them - there simply aren't enough troops for a ground invasion.
JPsy @ 80:
You don't think that recklessly and repeatedly violating Constitutional Law is an Impeachable offense? Starting a war on false pretenses? Repeatedly lying under oath? Betraying his Solemn Oath to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States of America?
You're one of those conspiracy theorists, that think that 19 Saudis and Egyptians conspired to hijack and fly airplanes into buildings, aren't you?
For JPsy -
I agree that impeachment proceedings would be a mess. But I would like to see them used as a harassing technique so Bush/Cheney/Rice can't smugly rest until they are out of office. Do I think that the politicians in D.C. would actually get the votes to impeach Bush? No. But it would be the first step that the United States must take to mend its reputation in the rest of world.
So, we start impeachment proceedings to show the world that we are serious about addressing the crimes perpetrated IN OUR NAMES by Bush&Co. After he is out of office, we petition the World Court to try Bush as a war criminal. We don't try him, we turn him over to the rest of the world's community as a token indicating that we don't see ourselves being above international law.
Unless we truly treat Bush as the war criminal and mass-murderer that he is, we can kiss "bye-bye" whatever tattered good reputation we have. Land of the free, home of the brave, nation of laws, protector of the down-trodden, enemy of oppression. All of that will be finally washed away.
If we don't purposefully go after Bush&Co., we deserve to be ostracized. To not punish Bush is to tell the rest of the world that we are comfortable being good little nazis.
Sounds nice Nancy. Now drop to your knees like you always do...
Weaseldog @ 81:
And who would bring bush to trial? The world court? Never happen. Our courts? That also would never happen. Sometimes I wonder what world people live in.
JPsy @ 83:
Do you doubt they would institute another draft? They had no trouble lying to go to war for oil at the cost of American lives. There isn't much I doubt they will do.
Perhaps the WTC were not false flag, but they've been exploited as if they were.
diamondmc @ 87:
No, I understand the reality of it. Like I argued, "If we were a nation of laws."
We are at the point now, where our presidents can commit any crime against America that they want, and they would be completely untouchable. Take any crime ever committed by a world leader, and understand that Bush or the next President could repeat that crime, and impeachment would be off the table.
Hehe, Godwin's law was not invoked. :)
diamondmc @ 87:
Just maybe "We The People."
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
Frank Dufek @ 88:
At the time of the attacks, the same Saudis that financed the hijackers, say on the board of the Carlysle Group along with Bush family members. After the attack, those Saudis resigned their seats but kept majority stakes in the corporation. Other Bush family members were appointed their seats.
Of course, we can be sure this is just a coincidence.
Weaseldog @ 89:
Yup, and if pigs could fly.
The contempt on Betraeus' face says it all.
Ron @ 71:
Sadly the people who make the decisions aren't the ones who pay the price. That is always the case. do you think with a new administration that our responsibility to the Iraqi people is forgotten?
c. atrox @ 85:
As much as I'd like to see that happen, it's a fantasy. Poppy will have Junior and Big Time spirited away to Paraguay if he so much gets a sniff of that in the pipeline
Good - it was a misnomer anyway and it's about time that the way that your country, mine (the UK) and more than a few others truly behaved after the end of WWII came to light. Sponsorship of right-wing military dictatorships in Latin America and the Middle East in exchange for favourable treament for our private corporations (United Fruit, BP, Exxon, Amoco - the list goes on), covert operations to overthrow democratically elected governments in favour of military dictators (e.g. Pinochet and Shah Pahlavi).
Of course, under the cover of "fighting Communism" we had an excuse to keep it under wraps, but now I think it would be far better if restitution was made.
Ron @ 90:
That could happen in the other world, but not the real world. We need to focus on the next president, and try to hold him or her accountable for their deeds. The best we can hope for bush is, he ends up on the garbage heap of history.
A Coup is coming..get ready...be sure you have some extra cash at home..i'm really serious..Bush and Chaney arn't leaving...would you do all this and just leave?..hand it over to a Obama..a Hillery..a McCain?...don't say it can't happen here..it can and will..and the genius of it all?...it was done in broad daylight..
Weaseldog @ 91:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought this site came down pretty hard on people who brought up 9/11 Troof. I'd quit while you're ahead.
Weaseldog @ 91:
Touche. I was just trying to highlight the fact that even if you are nutty enough to believe the MSM 9/11 conspiracy that you really can't deny how the attack has been exploited endlessly for political gain. I suppose that's the best way to begin converting someone who believes the MSM 9/11 conspiracy.
Don @ 97:
Dreams, nightmare dreams, but dreams nothing the less...
Norse @ 14:
Yeah its an insult.
The human cost is the suffering Iraqis have to endure every day, the human cost is the hundreds of thousands Iraqis dead to violence, the human cost are the millions Iraqi refugees and the millions wounded and the millions scarred for life.
Disgusting American arrogance
In a speech Clinton blamed the Iraqis for the lack of political progress despite Americans brought them "the precious gift of freedom". Senator Boxer was outraged yesterdays hearing because al Maliki welcomed Ahmadinejad and Bush had to sneak in, despite all "Americans had sacrificed for them".
JPsy @ 99:
Haha, they can go ahead and ban me for speaking about 9/11 Truth. But then, what would be the difference between this site and MSM?
[Oh we will, if you persist in conspiracy theorizing. The difference between this site and the MSM? Plenty-Sitemonitor]
Don @ 97:
I feel you, brother. Just keep your wits about you. It won't be pretty, but the struggle is beautiful. We're all in it together.
So, Nancy, tell us - what have YOU been doing to try to bring about a change in Iraq policy??
diamondmc @ 92:
I think it would be enough that we were a nation that took the law seriously.
Previous versions of our nation impeached presidents for crimes. And pigs didn't fly then.
I am so sick and tired of these buffoons, these idiots, these criminals that running our country and our military into oblivion. The majority of them are completely WORTHLESS. Not only are these people a waste of oxygen, they are wasting our blood and treasure. I say vote every incumbent out, no matter what party they are from. The Democrats were voted into power to end this madness. Pelosi PROMISED to begin to clean up the mess our country is in. She has yet to deliver. Taking impeachment off of the table was one the first things she did. She stabbed everyone who voted the dems into power in the back and continues to twist the knife. Pelosi is just another lapdog for the Bush crime family.
Weaseldog @ 105:
I agree, but that was then, this is now, and it ain't gonna happen. That is reality...
Weaseldog @ 105:
Yeah, two of them. And the last case that had any actual merit was the impeachment of President Jackson in 1868.
The second was a politically-motivated hitjob, ostensibly over misleading Congress about a hummer fro man intern, but really because he had the temerity to deny George H. W. Bush a second term.
Both impeachments resulted in acquittal. As yet there has been no successful impeachment of a sitting or outgoing President.
JPsy @ 95:
You know, I agree with the realistic view you have. As an American socialist, I've always had a problem with my country's hypocrisy. And, yes, it is time to show the rest of the world what kind of filler goes into making this particular red, white, and blue hotdog. However, as cynical as I am (and proudly so), I still hope that there are enough Americans in this country who can establish alternatives to capitalism, consumerism, et al. We can probably all agree that as we ride this beast to proverbial hell, the least some of us can do is try to make the ride more enjoyable.
And, finally, as for whisking Georgie Jr. away to some safe Nazi-haven, let them. The point is, he should not have a happy retirement. George Bush is the embodiment of virtually everything that sucks in this country and the world... he's anti-intellectual, greedy, superstitious, and myopic.
pongo @ 1:
I agree. Right Nancy, say nothing about the Iraqi dead directly or indirectly caused by going into Iraq.
Weaseldog @ 76:
And your number does not include the suicides, or the sickened or the accidents.
and please add 1,000,000+ Iraqis
c. atrox @ 109:
As an American socialist
Wow - that must make you feel as isolated as a gay Jewish woman in Saudi Arabia!
As much as I respect that and your stand for what you believe in, socialism is dead. Ideological struggles died with the USSR, and the fact is that the fledgling Movement Conservatives turned it into an unusable word and an untenable position in the west.
No - we need pragmatic solutions, not ideology. You're not going to get billions of Westerners to give up their privileged lifestyle willingly in exchange for felign a little better about themselves, it's just not going to happen.
He's going to get one though. He has more than enough money, and enough support to make sure he never has to face the consequences of his actions, just as Pinochet on the right and Stalin on the left didn't have to either. Unfortunately life does suck sometimes and there's nothing you can do about it.
And what will Pelosi do about it? Absolutely nothing it appears.
JPsy @ 59:
I have been a big advocate for impeachment, but I'm afraid JPsy is correct. It's now too late. We all know Bush and Cheney are evil. It really is the failure of Congress (both Republicans and Democrats) who have failed to uphold their duty to protect the Constitution and should be booted from office, as well. But with a 90 retention rate, the American public gets the government it deserves.
"Iraq is an occupied country, the government that exists now, which has a relation to us, is not the government that will be when Iraq is no longer occupied"
This comment left by someone else pretty much says it like it is. We are stuck there trying to stabilize things for whatever that government is, and there seems no good or clear way out at this point. Maybe after the first of the war..a few weeks in, when we had defeated the army we should have came home and let them establish their own government.... with the warning that we can, and will, come back if necessary. We would have had to, but it is much easier to fight a government than what we are fighting now, and maybe eventually the people there would get the idea to take it upon themselves to make it work.
ENOUGH already!
Finally the chimp has found himself a general that he can listen to. One that, like himself and his cronnies, believes in this fruitless and never ending escallation and slaughter on a daily basis known as the "bush-war" or in more clear terms, the Iraq Occupation. Good for him.
Patreaus is a smart military man. He does "war" well. He knows how to maximize strategy to get the most toward his "mission". His "mission", however, is to contain the area in Iraq with as little loss as possible. Hell of a mission. It's like holding your breath underwater. Great. Nice job Patreaus.
Now the bigger question: Do we want to continue doing war in a country we have NO BUSINESS being in in the first place? Do we want to squander our precious treasure and military strength to prove that this "mission" can be accomplished? Do we want to continue creating more hatred toward America by occupying this country? Do we want to continue being responsible for the death and destruction of Iraq? My answer is a resounding NO.
NOTHING is being accomplished for the future of Iraq. NO political gains, or significant gains that would indicate we'll get out of there in the next 100 years is being made. We are simply being shown that we can hold our breath under water. NOT WORTH ONE LIFE...American or Iraqi.
Patreaus is a general. His business is war and strategy. He is making a wonderful name for himself. Maybe we'll see him in a future campaign for president when we have finally come to the conclusion that this country is nothing more than a military force, and that peace is a dead and mute thought in the American dreams and hopes.
Screw what these two robots have to say. War is their business....plain and simple. Get our troops out. Give Iraq back what is left of their stained and demoralized nation. God help Iraq and the Iraqis. We should be ashamed of ourselves for many future generations for what we have allowed this monster in the WH to lead us into.
It's been said already, but just to reiterate:
Pelosi, do something about it or shut your hole. Taking legal action "off the table" to try and generate some bipartisan lube was a huge mistake and until that particular decision is reversed all words coming from the mouth of Ms. Pelosi are worthless.
Clarification: The obstructionism is on the part of the Republicans in Congress and some Bush Dog Democrats (and of course Lieberschmuck). *Not* all Democrats, many of whom have tried to turn the tide to the best of their ability.
Unfortunately you can't argue with the numbers, and there I'm afraid the electorate comes in for criticism too. *If* progressives hadn't been successfully cowed in 2002 and 2004, maybe something could have been done. But it's disingenuous to blame the Dems that arrived in 2006 promising to make a difference, because many of them have been trying.
galmud @ 102:
The one thing Colin Powell was ever right about: the Pottery Barn rule - you break it, you own it. Our (yes, all of us) President created this mess and we (the people) inherit it when he heads back to Crawford next January. The Democrats have to get this through their thick Iraq-blaming skulls. We destroy their nation, then say, "You aren't satisfying us with the speed with which you're trying to clean up the disaster we created! We're outraged that you Iraqis aren't able to be totally competent in rebuilding your nation, when we have been nothing but completely incompetent at everything we've done to rebuild your nation ourselves." Sick... really sick...
Betray Us and Crock. What a team.
JPsy @ 112:
Wow - that must make you feel as isolated as a gay Jewish woman in Saudi Arabia!
As much as I respect that and your stand for what you believe in, socialism is dead.
Ha. Well, I agree that being a socialist in the United States is a very non-social affair. But your second comment about socialism being dead is wrong.
You seem to mistakenly conflate Soviet Communism with the various forms of socialism around the world. That's too bad. And you seem to suggest that socialism is merely ideology.
That would hardly explain why socialistic-inspired programs such as Social Security, labor laws including the 40-hour-week, and almost any kind of subsidized social services exist in the United States. And in many of the European countries as well. And you say you are from the UK where they have socialist-inspired health care. It is true that there is constant pressure from capitalist "privatization" groups around the world to gut social programs, but so far the programs still exist. And you might research socialism around the world and be amazed by the organizations that still function. Socialism is not thriving as much as it should, but it certainly is not dead.
c. atrox @ 121:
Actually, I don't - I'm saying that nearly a century of anti-Socialist propaganda in the west means that for many people, socialism and communism are considered one and the same. I know that's not the case, but you're not going to convince a majority because eevn progressive voices in the media are too afraid of the likely backlash to use the word in a positive light.
Also I believe human beings are simply too selfish by nature at this point of our evolution for a fully socialised system to work.
That's because those programmes date from the late 1940s, where the populations of the Allied powers needed some recompense for their efforts in the war. There is no way you'd get popular support if you tried to implement these programmes post Reagan/Thatcher.
Newsflash : They're winning. The Conservative Party are actually ahead in polls in the UK - and they *will* privatise the NHS wholesale before their first term is up.
It survives in small Latin American countries and in some African states. China has lapsed into a centralised capitalist dictatorship with Communist branding. Unfortunately socialism is dead where it matters.
For this you can thank the tireless efforts of the international banking industry and media tycoons like Rupert Murdoch. :(
Frank Dufek @ 74:
Oh puhleeze, the Illuminati hasn't existed since the death of Adam Weishaupt in 1830. Even their purpose of spreading the French Revolution has been bypassed by history.
Oh hell... blah blah blah, it's another re-run... What the heck is wrong with the Reichsministry these days? They used to be so much better at this spinning scary tales shit.. Hmm, maybe it's the customer base... Maybe, we're juuust not buyin anymore Gen-rul.... Gee, ya think???? JD
Leave it to Ron Paul to be the one who put Petraeus' and Crocker's feet to the FIRE!
He just let them have it all but good. (To paraphrase):
He ended his questioning with this zinger: "In your opinion, do you believe the POTUS has the right to bomb Iran without the express authority of the Congress?"
They both said, "humina, humina, humina".
Then Ron Paul said, "This is a problem. That we cannot get a plain "no" answer to that question since according to the Constitution there would be no authority to do so without a vote by Congress."
Dear John Amato: I realize people on this website are not great fans of Ron Paul, but his testimony/questions today were by far closer to the thinking of everyone here than the questions of anyone else I heard (except Robert Wexler).
Would you consider clipping Ron Paul's questioning and their answers and putting them up here for discussion?
Year: $123.6 billion...This figure is way to low... Bush has asked for increases of $100 billion extra, and I am sure they are not counting other cost which Bush places in other category beside the war.
We are busted economically , jobs wise , manufacturing plants overseas , foreign countries are buying out our financially & banking institutions , our military is using more gas to run Bush/Cheney's war in Iraq then some of our states are.
Clinton,, not matter if you like him or not,,, had us on a financial roll with a balance budget and Bush destroyed that in no time ,, giving tax cuts to his corporate backers and wealthy friends ,,, while Cheney set the policies for the historical profit , control and power of the oil companies and private corporations.
You don't see Cheney , Bush and his other war hawks investing their wealth they made out the backs of our soldiers and tax payers in our country.. They are investing it in foreign countries like Saudi Arabia , Dubai and others.
Bush quote was correct when he said that the enemy is finding new ways to destroy us and so are we... Good Job Brownie... Bush/Cheney needs to be given a presidential award like they give their other criminal friends.
Bush is printing money as it grew on trees. Bush has dismantle our government jobs privatizing them even our security has been sold to foreign nation with ties to terrorist.
I am in shock and still can not believe our senate and House gave/gives into Bush's criminal actions and policies without a h... of a fight.
Our country has & is being destroyed by the greed , power , their self serving purpose and stupidity of our elected officials and our citizens are sitting on the sidelines doing nothing about it.
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi had this to say after Petraeus’ and Crocker’s testimony yesterday:
It is clear from today’s testimony by General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker that the Iraqi government remains unwilling or unable to take the steps necessary to reach the political reconciliation needed to secure their country’s future.
,,,,,,,......one thing the Iraqi Government have no problem making a decision on....THEIR OWN FOOD INTAKE.
Everytime the Iraqi President appears on camera he is another size bigger, huge. 'Let it be known, damned insurgents will not interfere with my quality food and wine. Let the peasants look after them selves, I will be wined and dined in splendour.'
Not an underfed Iraqi Govt boss in sight. The ole insurgents leader looks fairly well nourished as well
It is very noticeable outside the US how many American articles, speeches and quotes mention American casualties and not Iraqi casualties. It almost seems as though most Americans don't care about dead Iraqis.
People in the rest of the world are not surprised, believe me.
Nice comment, Nancy...and there the American People sit...passive as sheep and as complicit as all the enablers surrounding the Administration.
Comments are closed on this entry