Matthews: Media Created The "Delusion" That Clinton Could Win
By Logan Murphy Monday Apr 21, 2008 9:00pm
During Tuesday's Democratic presidential primary coverage on MSNBC co-host, Chris Matthews, declares the race between Obama and Clinton to be essentially over before the polls closed in Pennsylvania and blames "the media" for creating a horse race he says doesn't exist.
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
"...But I really do think it's a strange time because we're all watching to see who won, but as Nora pointed out, 4 out of 5 ,or so, of the Hillary voters today believe she's still in the running. That this is still up in the air and I think that was probably a mistake of the media. I think in the effort of the media, to try to keep this game going, we've created the delusion that somehow this race is still open. I don't think it is open. I think if you look at the numbers Barack has to really blow it in the weeks ahead to lose."
Matthews need only look into the archives of his own show and his work on MSNBC's primary coverage for some of the creepiest, most delusional rants and bizarre political hackery to be found anywhere on the tee vee.
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Wow, I actually agree with Mathews. I'm officially scared.
Wow he made somewhat a of an intelligent point
Someone mentioned earlier today that they heard Matthews say that. They should have been saying this for weeks
Wow. I couldn't believe my ears when he said it. Who gave Chris the smart juice.
langx @ 4:
Ha!
he's finally right
Chuck Todd explained this to him six weeks ago. Guess it takes that giant baby head a while to process teh math.
I think that's the first time I've agreed with that blowhard in months.
I think that this was just another swipe that chrissie took the opportunity to make at the expense of the hated clinton woman.
chrissie just can't wait to go after Obama. That's his real story line.
"Clinton Captures Crucial Win" in large font is what I see on the Yahoo! home page right now.
"Clinton Claims Victory in PA Primary" on CNN.
The media just loves a horse race. They're still not going to call it over!
I'm shocked! Too bad I don't expect Tweety to keep telling the truth like he should.
I think the moron meant illusion not delusion. I give you people props for watching him and that silly network.
speaking of hillz:
DEAR AMERICA:
trust the transylvanians w/ your transactions, even when they treat them like trollops?
I thought that the candidate needed 2,025 electorial votes to win. obama doesn't have that many, and he can't get that many. This will have to be a brokered candidacy.
If obama can't carry one big democratic states and only manages to pick up the little republican states full of blacks, how in the devil can he win the general election. The Democrats who see the obama candidacy as a descent into the nether regions of you know where....WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA. They trust McCain much more. WAIT AND SEE. The good old boy's club popping their little blue pills are going to be much much disappointed.
"...we’ve created the delusion that somehow this race is still open.."
Matthews did admit he was part of the problem.
Matthews is looking more and more like Tweety, Maybe it's the receding hair line,
Mathews is an idiot. The fact that Obama could not win as a front runner who spent more than 2x the money Clinton did is showing a huge problem for him in the General. All the states that the Democrats must win he has lost (Ohio, Florida, Michigan). He wins all the states that Democrats will not win (the Bible Belt).
Another mistake he made just happened, he mentioned during election that Thomas Jefferson was the father of the Democratic party. I believe he was president under the Republican ticket and helped form the Republican party. Saying he was a Democrat is like Republicans trying to claim JFK would be a Republican today.
As usual, Mathews is an idiot
Marge @ 15:
What makes you think that Obama can't carry the big Dem states, because he lost them to Clinton? That isn't much of an indicator of how he'll do against McCain there. It seems you think that a lot of Dems are racist. I hope that isn't true.
Something ironic about this McSame lover Matthews saying any form of the word delusion.
One thing is certain: The Dems have got to revise the way primaries work. It is anachronistic that some states have their vote in January while others wait until May and June. With the advent of air travel there is no reason for such a protracted season. We should condense it to a period of three months or less.
Oh shut the F up you blathering idiot......mathews! You are a supreme Hillary and woman hater! You supported the idiot and totally irrelevant goof ball living in the white house as we speak. Just shut the F up .....stuff a sock in your piehole!
What path are we being led down? Where is the money that is stearing this ship? The power of this country wants what?
A McCain presidency will continue to line the pockets of the thieves in Iraq.
A McCain presidency will continue the wholesale theft of public resources to select private industry (coal, nuclear, oil....)
A McCain presidency will maintain the current dicatatorial powers of the presidency -- but this time there will be an angrier nut case with no self control in power...
It doesn't matter who wins - Obama or Clinton - they have to beat McCain.
Where's the music club? Fella gotta relax his whiskers after all this drama.
maybe there's hope for matthews.
some of the most delusional tories turned the eve of the revolution, y'know...
I guess I assume Clinton can still win or she wouldn't be in the race.
E.L. @ 23:
E.L.?
Tweety's leg seems to be behaving tonight. Maybe he can have another moment after North Carolina.
Apparently word on the street (from the DNC) is that Florida and Michigan will count. Now Obamabots can really go nuts.
It's like the million monkeys with a million typewriters and one types out "Hamlet": the sheer number of words coming out of Matthews' mouth meant that he was bound to say something true, eventually.
jmac @ 28:
I sincerely hope that you are wrong. If those delegates are seated as they now stand it will be disastrous for the democratic party.
Marge @ 15:
I just don't buy the idea that the swing states won't vote for Obama. He's a motivator who has got the democratic vote out better than anyone in a long time. It seems to me that they have a candidate who might be able to get the vote out in ADDITIONAL states that could swing. Also, don't forget that a good VP choice can attract more voters.
If
If you stayed tuned to MSNBC, you would have been treated to the Most Bizarre Pundit Exchange of 24/7 election news: Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow on Decision '08.
Rachel was discussing some of the day's developments in a completely non-partisan manner, and Buchanan lost it and almost yelled: "Enough with that Maxist rhetoric!" Talk about overreacting. Maybe McSame's notorious temper is rubbing off on some of his supporters.
jmac @ 28:
Link?
jmac @ 28:
I think Florida should count as is since they were both on the ballot. Michigan is another story. Obama wasn't even on the ballot there, it's only fair to re-vote and then count. The DNC or the Michigan State Democratic Party should take out a loan to pay for the election and get it done in May or June. That way whoever the candidate is will be considered legitimate with all states getting their say.
Damn Obama's speech was good!!! He even fixed a camera of an audience member afterwards. Looked like anyway. She was trying to take a picture. He leaned over and flipped the switch for her. She was taking too long. The job got done. Let's elect this. He is inspiring. She is well. old. tired. fear mongering. condescending. etc.
I think the Clintons know something we don't. Another shoe is going to drop -- for instance Florida and Michigan counting. There's a reason she's still in the game and it isn't her tenacity. There will be shenanigans.
I don't doubt Obama's political prowess. But the fact is/was in the last few states, the late deciders are going away from Obama. that is not a good trend in a general election.
In the General, the Democrat nominee (whomever that is) must win 2 of the Michigan/Florida/Ohio combo.
If the nominee is Obama, he is going to be forced to spend money in California because McCain thinks he can compete there and with Arnold as governor he may be right.
Also, the Reagan Democrats are not voting Obama, they are voting Clinton in all the Rust Belt states that Obama is not from. If he loses Indiana too I think he has big general election problems. This race should be a blowout after these 8 years and the fact that it isn't is troubling
seth @ 19:
What is true is that when you put a inexperienced machine politician who has three strikes against him, Wright...Rezko...Auchi, and who has never been to the EU or the ME against 'War Hero' McCain beloved of the MSM you are looking at a McGovern-style blowout.
The only good thing about the upcoming GE disaster for the Dems is that those of us who refused the Kool-Aid won't have to listen to any more Barry Hype.
Be messy cleanin' up after all those exploded heads though.
Not seating Florida is killing the Democratic party. People are asking for and getting their money back. Voters are saying they will sit it out. If Obama could have won the full delegate count, of course they would not have counted. But neither can win the delegate count now without super delegates. Obviously, you have to let Florida and Michigan have more clout than super delegates. Especially Florida.
I was told when I called two days ago they would be counted. Also, Open Left had an article a few days ago that also said they'd be counted.
"I think in the effort of the media, to try to keep this game going, we’ve created the delusion that somehow this race is still open. I don’t think it is open."
Tweety is right for once.
nonbeliever @ 34:
I differ only in that both states require do overs. Senator Obama did not campaign in Florida and deserves a fair shot at those delegates. I might add that the failure to address this issue will cost the democratic party dearly in November.
Dave @ 37:
Please refer to the nominee as the democratic nominee. When you say democrat nominee, you sound repugnantcant.
It's pretty obvious the media and their powerful corporate leaders are the only ones who have anything to gain from letting this "horserace" continue.
Tweety's garnered a lot of eyeballs from this boxing match. Along with ABC, CNN, Fox, etc.
Nobody who's rich and powerful cares what Democrat wins. They want them to be bloodied and drained of energy and resources.
They know the odds are stacked against ANY Republican, and they need to do anything to get McCain elected.
Imagine what a candidate who says he's going to fight the corporate interests might do to interfere with their unfettered corporate greed.
Peter G @ 41:
Hillary didn't campaign in Florida either. Also, I don't think splitting the delegates 50/50 is a viable solution. McSame's camp will definitely make an issue of Michigan's and Florida's voters getting disenfranchised. I do agree that we need to settle this by June. This is a DANGEROUS issue. We can't afford to take any state for granted.
Matthews is a complete idiot. He has been the biggest horse race proponent on cable. He is one of the most guilty for the garbage that passes as news today. He avoids vital stuff to druel over GOP legislators and fellow pundits. He is a hack. He could have been talking about important issues in our country for the last 8 years, but his sophamoric babble has harmed this country dearly. They all deserve our disdain. Soon they will be completely irrelevant. News will be internet based and be completely interactive. The good journalists will adapt, but Matthews is not a journalist.
Chris is a delusion
Peter G - wasn't it Obama who nixed the do-over? I think it's too late now to set up a redo now. Didn't Hillary's camp even offer to pay for the redo in Michigan?
Tweety has been a boor, a jackass, a misogynist, and an Old Spice-smelling senior citizen-lover throughout this campaign. But of all the asinine things he has been saying for over a year, this time, I think he's precisely correct.
nonbeliever @ 44:
I absolutely agree with you. I would not suggest splitting the vote. Awarding votes to candidates who did not earn them is fundamentally undemocratic and a guarantee to lose those states in the election. If the delegates are seated as they stand there will be a wholesale defection by disillusioned Obama supporters. This is an extremely dangerous situation.
Can't watch a clip with this slimey weazels face and stinggy voice in it. What an asshat.
Randi Rhodes was wrong. Hillary aint no whore; she's a winner.
Despite getting outspent 3 to 1 in Pennsylvania she kicked Obama's ass by double digits. Hillary is the most vetted politician in the history of politics. She has absorbed more knockout punches from more opponents than anybody; and she keeps getting up and fighting back. Ken Starr's $80 million investigation could stop her. Relentless attacks from right wing talk radio could not stop her. Twenty biographical books by her enemies could not stop her. Smears by TV right wing tools like Hannity and O'Reilly could not stop her. Chris Matthews and David Shuster could not stop her. Hillary is one tough bird. Hillary is a woman of steel, forged in the crucible of intense public scrutiny. She would make a formidable presidential candidate in the general election. If she continues her current winning streak, the super delegates will support her at the national convention.
jmac @ 47:
No and no. The state Congresses of BOTH Michigan and Florida voted down proposals for revotes, to some extent because both proposals required the states to foot the bill. I hardly think Hillary has the money to back up those words (even if she said them, which she didn't), seeing as her campaign currently holds more debt to lenders than it does cash on hand.
Please take this uninformed tripe elsewhere, and come back when you get the facts straight.
Marge @ 15:
Your ignorance is appalling. It's delegates, not "electorial" votes. And the superdelegates count in that total, and they are falling to Obama in droves.
Hillary CANNOT reach a majority of the delegates. Her last chance to even come close to doing so was to break 70% in the PA race, and she's barely cracked 54%. The next two contests will finish her, aside from which she is out of money and up to her neck in debt.
Her negatives are gigantic and she has long since retreated from her ceiling of support. Obama has just begun to rise from his floor of support. I know you can't do the math but the DNC can and they know what's going to happen next.
And MI and FL are irrelevant and they know it and very few people have been able to find any crying voters from those states to complain that they've been "disenfranchised" so that issue is dead too.
Along with Hillary's campaign. She took a 20-point lead, and her 'inevitability' and sat there while Obama, over a period of six weeks, whittled it down to 8.5%, spewing massively negative attacks which only hurt her and never even touched him.
Obama will be the nominee. It is only a matter of time.
Why do the all the big right wing media whores (Matthews, O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc) talk about 'The Media' and 'The MSM' as if they aren't part of it? These guys ARE the f*cking media. They ARE the mainstream. They are the lowest common denominator.
If they aren't talking about themselves when they refer to the media, they who the f*ck are they talking about??
jmac @ 47:
She can't even pay her campaign bills. How the fuck is she going to pay for an election in MI?
Those who think that a race between two democrats is indicative of the popular election in November is INSANE. Do you REALLY think that New York and California will go for McCain over Obama? Not in my lifetime. Does Hillary really think she can win Texas vs. McCain? HA! I used to respect the Clintons. They have destroyed the Democratic party and turned us against one another. They are responsible for a McCain win in November more than Nader or anybody else they love to BLAME.
Dave @ 37:
Bullshit.
You're making some huge assumptions:
a) that everyone who voted for Clinton is going to vote for McCain and not Obama. The fact is, Obama can lose major states, like New York, California and Pennsylvania, to Clinton and still easily crush McCain in those states.
b) that because Arnold is popular now that Californians will automatically vote Republican. They won't. Anybody can see that Arnold is in complete conflict with mainstream Republican (and McCain) policies.
c) that voters in general are as apathetic as they were in the past two election cycles.
d) that the differences between Republican and Democratic candidates on major issues, like the economy and war, are as indistinct as they've been the past two election cycles.
e) that there's as little enthusiasm for any Democrat as there was for Kerry or Gore. Let's face it, Obama is quite a bit more impressive than either.
f) that there's as little indifference toward Republicans as there was the past two election cycles. Democratic turnout has been TWICE that of the Republican primaries. Republicans are even sick of Republican candidates.
FINALLY!!!
What the fuc* is going on? Hillary still needs 80% of the remaining REGISTERED DEMOCRATIC VOTERS TO TIE!!!!
Christ!!! This is why a money hungry media is no good for America. A race that is over = no rating.
Yes we AMericans are freakin idiots.
drago @ 51:
I agree. As Hillary herself said the other day, why hasn't Obama closed the deal, with his big cash advantage and all his supposed grass-roots support?
If the situation were reversed, and it was Clinton ahead of Obama by the same margin he now has, he sure as hell wouldn't be dropping out. He'd take it all the way to the convention if he had to.
drago @ 51:
8.5 as of 87% of the votes counted. It's more accurate to say that she took a 20-point lead and blew 11.5 of those points getting absolutely nowhere.
This statement is garbage. She has only been active in politics since 2001. Before that she was a bystander.
See above. Her husband weathered those knockout punches. She took her public recognition from his just-completed Presidential term which had a high approval rating throughout and forged her initial Senate career out of that. She has not faced serious political opposition until now.
Except that, like most other DLC-ers, she has ceded most of her policy positions to McCain in an effort to weaken Barack Obama. She's openly stated that McCain would make a good CIC. She's advocated for torture. She's raving about bombing Iran. She's running around like a gun-toting redneck wannabe in an effort to look less liberal than Obama. And nationally, Obama out-polls her by 10 solid points.
She has LOST 30 of 45 primary contests. She is behind by over 100 delegates. She has gained TWO superdelegates since Super Tuesday. Obama has gained dozens. She is falling behind in fundraising and cannot pay her campaign bills. Obama is outraising her by tens of millions of dollars every month. What winning streak are you talking about?
See my above statements -- her last chance to close this deal was tonight and she blew it. She shat her 20-point lead and with it any chance she might have to regain momentum. All of the forward movement in this race has been Obama.
Who will be the nominee in August, and who will kick John McCain's candy ass in November. See you in the new era.
bamboozled @ 57:
Nowhere did Dave say that all HRC supporters will vote for McCain. That is your assumption. It won't take more than a few percent switching to tip the balance however.
So many moving goal posts from the Clinton camp my head is spinning. First it was the total number of pledged delegates that should decide the nominee. Then it was the popular vote. Then it was who is "more electable" (whatever that means, nevermind that the whole "I win, you lose" attitude is the entire problem with American politics these days). Now we're back to the popular vote, EXCEPT if Obama wins the popular vote, in which case the Clintons reserve the right to move the goal posts yet again.
Honestly, all you Clinton supporters out there, if you want any empathy or understanding from me, you're going to have to explain what is so special about Hillary Clinton beyond anything Barack Obama or really pretty much any other Democrat has to offer that would warrant overturning (1) the lead in pledged delegates, (2) the lead in popular vote, (3) the lead in number of contests won, (4) the number of individual campaign donors, and (5) the total amount of money raised (mind you 3, 4, and 5 speak directly to the electability issue which you seem so fond of harping over) in order to coronate Hillary the nominee. I want a serious answer to this, because what she/her campaign/many of you are suggesting is that we overturn every principle by which the Democratic process was conceived to operate in order to make her the nominee.
Annoyed Canuck @ 59:
If iy wasn't for the media he would have closed the deal. You have Faux bringing up false BS about Obama anf the rest of the media repaeating it. Clinton also brought the false issues up. You can't expect the average voter to be able to wade through all of the BS.
drago @ 51:
Yes, Hillary is really a tough, take-no-prisoners fighter!
Except for when it actually matters. The war, the Patriot Act, bankruptcy reform, flag-burning? Give her the kneepads and watch her go to town on those GOP agenda items! You can take the Goldwater Girl out of the GOP, but you can't take the GOP out of the Goldwater Girl.
The point isn't "fighting." It's "achieving." Where are her achievements for the American people? We know she'll fight for herself or Bill. What about when it's a matter of deciding whether or not non-prestigious American lives (and countless Iraqi lives) will be spilled in a war against a country that never did anything to harm America? Will she make the hard decision then? Apparently not.
Instead of "fighting," I'd be happy if Hillary had spent some time "reading" the NIE.
Also: she was SUPPOSED to win PA by 20+ points, remember? She has NEVER been ahead in delegates, popular vote, fundraising, or total states won since Super Tuesday. If she wasn't Bill's Official Wife, the plug would have been pulled a long time ago. She started this race as the putative nominee, with incredible advantages in name recognition, fundraising, the Bubba Network, etc.
And she very quickly started getting her ass kicked by an "empty suit" (to use the Clintonista favorite slur on Obama).
All those advantages, and she still was stupid enough to screw it up.
Yeah. That's the kind of brainiac I want going up against McCain. Or, we could just vote FOR McCain, because Miss "I survived sniper fire!" has already assured us that they are equally good when it comes to that mythical "Commander in Chief" threshold (the one Bill carried her over when they moved into the White House!)
Biggus Diggus @ 36:
She has to save face and actually lose.
Some suspect she's also trying to hobble Obama enough to fuck him over in the GE and give herself another shot in 2012. Which will happen if Hell freezes over. But so far, NONE of the smears she's used on Obama have stuck.
FL and MI cannot count. They were not valid "elections." You can't choose something with an election when one of the choices is not available.
drago @ 51:
Perhaps you didn't hear about Hillary's promise to obliterate Iran if it messes with Israel. Care to re-evaluate Ms Rhodes' comments on Hillary vis a vis AIPAC?
slippy hussein toad @ 65:
I'm sure the voters in those states will be quite comfortable with being disenfranchised. They won't mind a bit will they?
Chris Matthews is merely the secret identity of...Captain Obvious!
I find it astounding that the Clinton campaign has the audacity to re-frame this as a victory for Sen Clinton because Sen Obama hasn’t knocked her out yet! She is still losing the primary race, and she was supposed to be inevitable candidate.
j @ 58:
Corporate Amerika wants to force Hillary into the V.P. slot. They want Obama to have a babysitter.
Sorry gang but Tweety is correct . Hillary having won Pennsylvania can and will certainly stay in the race but fact is Obama would have to have a total melt down for her to come out on top , the realists on the networks and else where are saying Clinton would have to win something like 60 percent in all remaining contests to legitimately ( key word there ) win the nomination , doing the math , they are right . Also the networks are making a killing on this thing and want to prolong the race . Off topic but I saw what for me was a very disturbing poll result shown on MSNBC tonight , asking Cliton supporters if race is important , 75 percent said yes , Obama supporters 25 percent said race was important , understandably ( to me any way ) blacks will support a black but the 25 % number didn't make much sense to me . I don't know if the poll was in PA or nationally ,I think it was PA . Regardless , I was shocked , I thought most people were more intelligent and above that these days but it appears we are still neanderthal simpletons . I wondered why people were accepting the lies , Karl Rove gutter poilitcs and smears from a DEM candidte and the obvious contradictions and conflicts of interest ( being for the people verses for the lobbyists and corporate world , can't have it both ways ) , sadly this is the answer . Some voting by gender but an awful lot of voting by race . The country is in deep crap economically , for most of us our lives are becoming more and more difficult and the future is uncertain , an insane Iraq occupation is still going on ( at 9 billion a week ) deaths still occuring daily , gasoline is up to four dollars and affecting all the neccessities and on and on , but the most important thing to consider when voting is gender or race ? Amazing . Sad Sad Sad . No matter who you support , it should bother any right minded person.
yeah I know , spelling , rattled this out and didn't spell check , please please forgive me ! LOL
Biggus Diggus @ 36:
thier will be blood!
Peter G @ 67:
I said it in the other thread but it's closed. Not resolving Florida and Michigan is a recipe for disaster. People have no idea.
drago @ 51:
How many more times will the "pundits" say Hillary MUST drop out PRIOR to an important primary only to find themselves forced to eat their own words on election nite? What a sad, embarrassing nite for all those "journalists" & talking heads who once again spent all their time trying to bury a legitimate, competitive Democratic candidate for the POTUS. And some of the densest are still trying to recast Hillary's win as a "loss" because it was "only" 10%.
Neither candidate can get the required delegate number. Neither one, not just Hillary. With her substantial wins (despite Obama's massive financial resources & softball treatment by the "press"), she has every right to make her case to the super delegates. It's called the Democratic Party not the Most-money Party. The ones who are tearing the Democratic Party apart are the ones who don't want democracy (voters) to determine the nominee. They've decided: no more debates, no more primaries, no more democracy in action. For a false sense of "party unity," just declare Obama the nominee now so he can start trying to force McCain to concede before the GE because that's now his M.O. for "victory." It'd be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic, the way the so-called "Democratic Party" doesn't want the democratic process to continue democratically. If Obama's such a guaranteed winner with massive resources everywhere he goes, why did he lose another large, important state tonite to Hillary? Or is winning now as irrelevant to the Democratic Party as experience? Who needs a candidate in November who's too afraid to finish out the nomination process thru to the convention?
A "tough-ass-biotch" in the White House who advocates mandated universal health care and the obliteration of Islamic terrorist extremists. That is my wet dream of a future President of the United States. Hillary in 2008!
Hillary keeps harping on how her "experience" is the reason she should be CIC.
Well. we have a dipstick in the WH right now who has nearly 8 years of "experience".
Would anyone but the 28% vote for HIM again.
So much for experience - I'll stick with someone with good judgement!
drago @ 51:
We now see the Clinton talking point beginning with "despte being outspent __ to ___." I don't want to trash talk, because no matter who the nominee is, the party will need to unite to beat the Republicans. But the answer to this talking point is easy. Clinton was outspent by a large margin because she was outraised by a giant margin. She has been outraised because so many people don't like her. If you look at Obama's million-plus small donors versus Clinton's much smaller number of donors giving bigger dollars (who, by the way, will probably be tapped out sooner than the small donors), that margin is even more lopsided. It takes a lot of money from a lot of donors to win an election. To brag about not being able to raise money hardly seems like a winning strategy or a reason to support her.
FUCK YOU CLINTON!!!!
Get over your lame-ass self! FUCK you CLINTON
JB in Mpls @ 77:
No experience but alleged "good judgment" to not show up for crucial votes (the Iran vote so he didn't have to go on record with an actual position) or to vote for insincere reasons. PA didn't buy his "good judgment" sans experience anymore than the other major states did. He lost. Time to deal with reality. He can't close the deal no matter how many millions he throws away on advertising his experience-free "good judgment." That actually shows bad judgment, to stick with a failed strategy (stay the course?). A candidate needs 2025 delegates to secure the nomination. He can't get them without super delegates. She can't either. So the primary process continues. Sorry to have to keep reminding BO & Co., we don't have a monarchy so stop trying to be anointed the first KOTUS. That's a first nobody wants to see.
Obama's "softball treatment by the press"? What planet have you been on the last month? It's been Rev. Wright, flag pins, and bittergate non-stop. What a bunch of nonsense, LPD.
And no one's denying Hillary her right to continue her campaign; a lot of people are questioning the wisdom of it, given how far behind she is and how her tactics are likely to damage the party and probable nominee. If she wasn't dealing in innuendo and sleaze (AKA the kitchen sink), a lot fewer people would be complaining.
LPD @ 80:
You really feel comfortable bringing up Kyl-Lieberman on the heels of Hillary's promise to obliterate Iran if it messes with Israel? I'm sure it's a strong selling point in freeper-land, but here? Not so much.
Dave @ 18:
I totally agree with your analysis. I was only waiting for today's results to FINALLY conclude that Barrack Obama CANNOT beat John McCain in November if Democrats are DUMB enough to make him the nominee.
He is a charismatic and inspirational figure no doubt especially to the young and new voters.
Inspite of this and with all his enormous resources, he has NOT been able to WIN any of the BATTLEGROUND STATES a Democrat would need to win in a general election.
What has this guy honestly won when it comes to the electoral college in November?
Mississippi, South Carolina, Idaho, Kansas, Wyoming etc which have SOLIDLY voted red in presidential elections for the last 25 years.
What about the 2.3 MILLION people who voted in the two VIP states Michigan and Florida? Discount their votes NOW at your own peril DNC. What PLANET are some people living on?
After what happened today, especially after outspending Hillary Clinton by 3 to 1, if Barrack Obama is chosen to be the Democratic Nominee, there is FINALLY no doubt in my mind that John McCain will be sworn in as the next POTUS in November.
The truth is bitter and it may hurt but it has to be accepted.
Wow... so... you mean the corporate media in general was doing **the same thing Rush Limbaugh was doing**, encouraging the primary fight to go on and on?
It's almost as if they've got an agenda!
Dave @ 18:
You do understand that Obama would not be running against Hillary Clinton in the general election, and therefore 'who got which state' in the primary is meaningless... right?
C'mon, it's time to put away the sophistry.
nonbeliever @ 74:
What disaster? They knew the rules and decided to break them anyway so they lost their delegates, and Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan so how could you legitimately count those delegates?
Michigan will vote Dem no matter who the nominee is because they have been hit the hardest by the Republican economy over the last 28 years. As for Florida, well those @ssholes can go F#ck themselves since their electoral votes won't be needed this time. Just like 2004 it will come down to Ohio, and they have learned their lesson from that election as seen in how they voted Democratic overwhelmingly in 2006. Plus states like Colorado, Virginia, and New Mexico are definitely in play for us this year, so Florida is irrelevant.
Since 1994 the media and the politicians have pitted american against american turning us into a hate filled, divided country and we have and are paying a tragic price for it. Now the media and Hillary Clinton are dividing the Democratic Party. ENOUGH! She is not the candidate for a unified Democratic Party. She is the candidate for same. The candidate who personifies everything I am enraged at in our political system. Please, Hillary, go away.
I'd just like to say I find it hilarious how all the pro-Hillary comments are using the same "he spent so much money and lost" talking point.
Speaking of campaign spending, I wonder how much money the Clinton campaign is spending on blog/forum commenters?
The media has been in the tank for Obama since the primaries started. For them job one has been to get rid of Clinton since she's the one who challenges corporate America and they know that Obama can't win in the GE. The MSM has Gored and Swift Boated Clinton for months and planet Obama has been only too happy to join in the lies, smears, and slanders. Barack Obama a uniter not a divider...gee where have I heard that before?
New York Times opines:
This man really gets his "bowels in an uproar" anytime something positive happens to Hillary.
He is a very slow learner. He has helped Hillary so much with his tirades.
Apples @ 85:
It is not meaningless. If Obama cannot prove "on his own merits" NOW that he can WIN or CONNECT with certain demographics, what guarantee is there that he can win with them in November?
The demographics I refer to are the Blue collar and Reagan Democrats (who John McCain would easily appeal to..that's why the GOP chose him in the first place).
They constitute the majority in rural areas like Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania and they have voted overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton. Accept the fact that these people view things differently from you so called progressives. NOTHING is going to change that.
The other group some Democrats seem to be ignoring at their own peril is the latino minority who have overwhelmingly favoured Hillary instead of Obama.
Obama can get 99.9% of the African American vote and will still loose states like South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisana etc in November. A Democrat would need the solid support of the latino community to win states like Florida, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado and California to name a few.
If these groups mentioned are dissatisfied with the choice of the Democratic nominee especially after the Michigan and Florida debacle, one can easily see them voting for McCain.
Johnny @ 89:
Regardless of what you think of either candidate, you are clueless or disingenuous to say Clinton "challenges corporate America." If you do actually believe that, please, I beg you, put in a little more work. Read about her voting record, her record earmarks for the defense industry, etc. She is bought and sold. Don't buy her blue collar propaganda. She is a fighter, I'll give her that. But mainly for her self, for attaining more power. I don't care who you're supporting, but it's your responsibility as a citizen to not fill up space spewing partisan talking points. You're supposed to inform yourself as well. You are not supporting a candidate who challenges corporate America. Jeebus, she served on Wal-Mart's board of directors for six years and thinks lobbyists are "real people, too." Sound like a big crusader against corporate America? Please.
Wake up.
Someone please serve Clinton the coup de grâce.
Chuck Todd told both Matthews and Olbermann tonight that uncommitted superdelegates tell him they're waiting to see who has the most popular votes before they make their decision. According to latest ABC/Newsweek polls, the vast majority of registered/leaning Democrats think the superdelegates OUGHT to give their vote to the person who has the most popular votes overall and NOT to the elected delegate leader.
Tonight's result means Hillary Clinton is the favorite to win most of the rest of the superdelegate votes.
After Pennsylvania, Obama's popular vote lead drops to about 500,000.
Howard Dean has now said Michigan and Florida's delegation WILL be seated at the convention. Even if their elected delegates don't count, the superdelegates can certainly factor their popular votes into their decision.
Factoring in Florida, Obama's popular vote lead is now only about 200,000 votes.
Factoring in Michigan and Florida, CLINTON now has the popular vote lead.
Even worse for Obama, his popular vote lead today, 500,000 votes without factoring in Florida or Michigan, is made up almost ENTIRELY of votes from his own Chicago district (429,000), which further weakens Obama's popular vote argument with the superdelegates and strengthens Clinton's.
Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia, Puerto Rico and an Edwards endorsement before North Carolina could essentially wipe out Obama's popular vote lead and gives it to Clinton even without factoring in Florida and Michigan.
Consequently, Clinton would then get the majority of the remaining uncommitted superdelegate votes and reaches 2024/2025. Obama does not.
Matthews is an idiot.
It is no longer a "delusion" that Clinton could win. It is now mathematically probable that she will if most of the remaining superdelegates mean it when they say they're going to cast their vote for the candidate with the most popular votes.
It's Me @ 95:
Wow, delusional much.
BTW, Hillary was expected to win Penn by twice the margin she ended up... if anything she has no money left for Indiana, nor Oregon for that matter. Good luck...
Wonderland @ 92:
Huh? dude, this is a primary, not a general election.
Some of you don't seem to understand that people are electing their dem nominee, not the president.
So let me get this straight, since Obama can not win by a sufficiently large margin over Hillary, then he will for sure lose against McCain. Ergo, Hillary who is losing against Obama should be the candidate?
Is that how logic goes these days?
bushflipflops @ 86:
You know I'm pissed at Florida too, but I'd like to be able to at least compete there as well as every state. We've gotta resolve this. I think we'll keep Michigan come November but the repugs now have a talking point until we figure this out.
Annoyed Canuck @ 59:
Pssss... here is a secret. Hillary was up by double digits in Penn, she blew over 10 of those points. She has lost a big share of the other primaries. I know this may be news to you good folk up in Canada, but this country happens to have 49 other states besides Penn. :-)
drago @ 51:
Ok, she's a good politician. But most of us Americans don't want a good politician, we want a good president. She's a shape-shifting liar and a hypocrite who fights dirty and boasts a track record of getting nothing accomplished that affects any of our lives. I don't care that she can win an election, because what good would it do? Nothing.
Johnny @ 89:
You are out of your mind. What world are you seriously living in? When she came in 3rd in Iowa, she should have been done for. But the media actually saved her by giving her more coverage than Edwards--who beat her with far less money. So, with more coverage she bounced back. Every time she's on her heels now, the media comes up with another stupid attack on Obama that happens to do with something a friend of his once said. Seriously, how can you see the world when you are farting in your own eyeballs?
wow matthews actually got it right
MSNBC has lost all credibility in terms of coverning politics. Throughout the night they continued to show the states Clinton had one which included Texas. Clinton did not win Texas. On April 3, 08 MSNBC reported that Obama actually won the delegate count in Texas. See for yourself. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/01/846611.aspx
Democrats need to step back and consider the following:
The media is going to continue to manipulate this primary which just might be enough for this to cause a split in the Democratic vote for presidency. I myself have said if the SuperDelegates put Hillary over the top without winning the mojority of the delegate count that I will not vote for her during the presidential election. However, my mind has changed as a result of the mess I saw on MSNBC tonight. As mad as many people will be regardless of whether Clinton or Obama wins, the Democrats must consider how the media is adding fuel to the fire with their coverage to create this horse race which they are helping continue. Above all, Democrats need to vow to support either Clinton or Obama to fight back against the corporate controlled media and make absolutely sure McCain does not win the presidency. If anything, think of the Supeme Court implications if McCain would win the presidency.
For those of you that say this is just Matthews' bias, you should look at Hillary's current supporters, i.e. Joe Scarborough and Rush Limbaugh.
Hillary' situation is actually worse. The math still doesn't work for her according to the popular vote and pledged delegates. She has to win every remaining contest by 20% to tie. That includes North Carolina where she is down by over ten points. If she steals this with the superdelegates, you can kiss the youth vote and black vote goodbye. It wouldn't be a nomination worth having.
BCB DAWG @ 1:
Ditto. That treacly, arrogant, wasp has caused me to wretch on so many occasion with his man-crushes, his Jabberwocky proclamations and his slobbered embellishments--as if he's the last word on anything. Really. Come on. He's a frickin' a news reader, not a soothsayer. For him to advocate the obvious seems stunningly strange. Did he slip? I wonder? But oh he does loath Hillary, doesn't he? Can't stand the competition for male attention, it seems.
God, I hate this guy. Another self loving, delusional, moronic, media-hack. Oh and yes...was WRONG. I guess the VOTERS just keep getting in the way, huh? I just donated again to the Clinton Campaign. I have also convinced my colleagues in Ohio and Florida that Obama just can't win in the GE(Finally!). He's a crybaby and a weakling and will be CRUSHED by McCain. Wake the hell up Democrats before it is too late!
Chris must be off his med's he's actually making sense!!
Anonymous @ 101:
Hey IDIOT - Bill Clinton Lost Iowa and he became PRESIDENT. Oh, but that was the MEDIA TOO, RIGHT? Moron. Learn your history.
If Obama is the nominee, the Democrats will lose. PERIOD. After 8 years of GWB and how bad things are...how in god's name are you Obama supporters going to live with yourselves? Vote Clnton before it is too late.
Hillary is still losing. And she's out of money and $10 mil in debt. She doesn't have as many delegates, popular votes, superdelegates, and total states as Obama. So yes, the media is responsible for making America think she's still viable. The media furthers this miserable travesty without which they'd have nothing to do. Also, most of the media is republican! I also smell some underhanded republican tactics supporting and bolstering Hillary. I am so sick of this woman I can vomit. She's ruining it for democrats nationally. She's the problem, not the panacea.
Hillary is the Problem???? Oh ya, all she can do is win the big states necessary for a win in the GE. Face it, Obama can't close. But he sure can WHINE about it. If he is the nominee, get used to Headline across the world on November 5th........
OBAMA CONCEDES
Get a grip! Do you really want 4 more years of BUSH????????????????
Oh, and by the way....FLORIDA & MICHIGAN will be voting in the FALL. So, good luck with that.
There is no way in hell Hillary will win in November if she steals the nomination from Obama.
Yeah, but he also said that black folk voted for Obama, and regular folk voted for Hillary.
re 111
Yo, Jack,
Do you really think that everyone who votes for Hillary will vote for Mcain in the general? You face it, Hillary has won some big states, but she still hasn't won the popular vote, or the delagate race, and she's losing ground in the super delagate race. And she isn't able to raise nearly the money that Barak does. What part of that don't you understand?
cray86 @ 2:
BCB DAWG @ 1:
Matthews is trying to absolve himself of guilt. He knows what HE and the rest of the media are doing. He knows that they have turned American politics into a sporting event, completely overlooked the real issues facing the country (most importantly...the war, its impacts and the decision to go to war), that the media have been shallow, reckless and totally irresponsible.
No, Chris Matthews isn't all of a sudden smart...he's just being intellectually dishonest and engaging in cognitive dissonance, just like every other elitist and right wing NUT in this country.
Fatbob @ 113:
Black folk and "regular folk", well gollleeeee Gomer. Thanks for that wonderful political insight.
BigTallMatt @ 62:
I'm disappointed to see that no Hillary supporters picked up the gauntlet on this one. It is apparent in this thread that the rationale now seems to be the following:
"Obama can't 'seal the deal', therefore Hillary wins by default."
Do you realize how ludicrous this is? If Obama can't "seal the deal", then Hillary isn't even in the same zip code as "the deal"! As was discussed on practically every news outlet last night, Hillary would have to win approximately 60% of the popular vote in ALL remaining states (including North Carolina and Oregon, where she is now expected to lose by as substantial a margin as she won tonight or more) to overtake Obama in the popular vote, and 80% to overtake him in delegate count. So, if you are ready to coronate Hillary queen of the Democrats, you should better well be prepared for a huge fallout from the rest of us who would like to see our country return to a free, Democratic society, with Democratically elected representatives.
Oh, and just to cut you off at the pass, I am well aware that these numbers do not reflect Michigan and Florida. Queen Hillary herself agreed that that the Michigan vote should not and would not count 12 months ago, so the point there is fairly moot (aside the fact that Obama wasn't even on the ballot! How's that for voter disenfranchisement?). As for Florida, I hardly think a state where nobody campaigned in and whose electorate knew their votes wouldn't count a priori is representative of voter sentiment in that state. Besides, it's the Democratic primary, so what DNC sayeth is law. And like someone already said earlier, you don't exactly see Florida voters coming out of the woodwork screaming bloody disenfranchisement, do you?
BTM...if this comment isn't just TYPICAL of the type of delusional crap coming out of the mouths of other MEN (like old spittle boy)...tell me WHY, then, Obama refused a redo in Florida and Michigan...he could have won (you'd say) and shut down this whole "manufactured horse race"...everyone screaming from the sidelines for THEIR CANDIDATE is doing more to destroy the party and country than either candidate as they are following the process as it's set up here...but neither gets my support until they begin to actually show concern MORE FOR AMERICA than themselves (remember the Solomon parable?)
It ain't over "til the fat lady sings"!!! Isn't that what a "horse race" is all about?
It's amazing how Hilary played the race game in Pennsylvania and no media outlet will tell the truth about it. They will rather call it the kitchen sink brand of politics. Even on the day on the election in Pennsylvania, Bill Clinton claimed that Barack Obama played the race card in South Carolina. Personally, in my opinion Hilary is more like a republican. I have no respect for her and her brand of politics. Lying and playing the racial game in Pennsylvania is how she really is, and I think we are looking at another stolen election.
Why is this posted? He's 100% right. Outside of Obama committing suicide, there's no legitimate way in which Clinton can win, and any other candidate would be getting the Ron Paul treatment right now. It's ludicrous that allegedly progressive blogs continue to toe the Taylor Marsh line and give the divisive Clinton campaign legitimacy that it's not worthy of.
Seriously, a stolen nomination is going to make '68 look like a minor lovers' spat.
Just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of Tweety's ability to take ANY SITUATION... and turn it into negaive spin against Senator Clinton. He's been doint it religiously for six months!
A 10% victory last night for the Clinton campaign is a BIG DEAL. I'll bet Tweety's ULCER is grinding in OVER-DRIVE this morning.
FED-UP in Texas @ 122:
How so? Bonus points for not using the "electability" argument.
Just another quick note... after re-reading a lot od comments above: It's AMAZING how PARTISAN and rude Obama supporters get... when their candidate is suddenly on the defensive. Has anybody else noticed that?
Travis @ 123:
It's signigicant because SHE HIT THE BAR. Everybody, supporters and detractors, alike, said she would have to hit a DOUBLE DIGIT win to stay viable in this contest. SHE HIT THE DOUBLE DIGIT WIN.
FED-UP in Texas @ 125:
She now only has to win every primary after May 6 by a paltry *80%*.
Dave @ 18:
Um, in order to be the frontrunner, you have to be leading in the polls, correct? Which one of these candidates was up by 20 4 weeks before the Primary?
Dancer @ 118:
Absolutely correct! The candidate that insist on playing by the rules setup BEFORE the game actually started is a destructive asshole who only cares about themselves! Only by changing the rules along the way to ensure yourself a victory can you demonstrate that you are truly a winner!
Sometimes I like Chris, occasionally he is correct in a blunt way.
Dave @ 18:
Which candidate is 10 million in the hole? IF Hillary can't help but run her campaign into debt, what do you think she will do to our country? It's reflection of things to come with her.
tntent @ 127:
sorry about the above post, I hit the back button but apparently my browser wanted to remember my intended post and my not intended post.
Matthews: Media Created The “Delusion” That Clinton Could Win
And a "DELUSION" is all it is!
I agree with Tweety on this 1. How can this be such a great win for Clinton when PA was expected to be a cakewalk for her anyways. She only gained 14 delegates on Obama. To me that's not much to brag about. Who cares if she's won some bigger states, she won them in states that generally vote Democrat anyways. If she's the nominee, the Republicans will be out in full force to see her out in the battleground states because they hate her. If it's Obama, most will stay home because they don't really care for McCain.
The math is not and will not in in favor of Hilary. So Chris Matthews is 100% right! The media is making a lot of money right now and they need to act like she has a chance.
The ONLY way is to use race to create divisions, which means stealing the election. It will be impossible for her to be on anyone's ticket and win.
By the way folk, it was 8.6% in Pennsylvania and not 10%.
So a big loss in a(nother) big state after its "over" isn't "blowing it"?
Interesting.
Johnny2Bad @ 136:
Couldn't one also argue that Hillary never has (and now never can) "put away" Obama? Street runs both ways, my Lieberman voter friend.
Your numbers are wrong. According to the Pennsylvania Dept of State Elections website <www.electionreturns.state.pa.us>, the official numbers are:
CLINTON 1,237,696 54.3%
OBAMA 1,043,174 45.7%
(99.4% of precincts reporting)
That's an 8.6% gap - 9% with rounding, not 10%. It is appalling that almost every media source (including progressive blogs) are mis-reporting the real, official results.
The Dude @ 99:
Psst some of us up here in Canada can do math. This was no blow out victory as the Clinton camp would have you think this was a 20 point win that turned into a 10 point squeaker. My hope is the good folks of Indiana and North Carolina will see fit to put this thing to bed. Obama makes this outsider feel like there is still hope for your country, Clinton and Mcshame would be more of the same old same old..or same really old as the case may be. A Clinton win requires so many ifs to happen it's laughable. I know the media types love the spin and hype and love to create controversy where there is none. Ignore it, think for yourselves.
This is your country the Bush Regime is the logical conclusion to a failed system of government by the corporations for the corporations. You have a chance to go in a whole new direction, take it.
By the way thank you for Rachel Maddow. If all I get out of this is the chance to watch her work the whole thing is worth it. Freakin' brilliant woman.
Dave @ 18:
I agree with most of what you say, so join me in writing phil.capus@nbc.com asking him to not renew Matthews contract that is up in June, or to at least give him less airtime. At the same time ask him to hire & give Maddow a show.
PS Jefferson was the 1st Dem.
Clinton 1,258,245 0.546934157 %
Obama 1,042,297 0.453065843 %
For everyone who thinks there is something magical in the 'double digits' that is often repeated.
She didn't do it.
Go back a few weeks when the pundits were saying she needed to win by 20% or it was over. Then they came up with 'double digits', not necessarily 20%.
Nothing had changed for them to lower their expectations, except Obama was picking up more super delegates than Clinton and raising tons of cash. Cash hand over over fist.
So in PA, he has gone from 25% back to less 10% and the pundits (many) still say Clinton is in the race.
The race is over. The denial continues.
My "irony meter" just 'sploded!!
Actually, Hillary didn't win by double digits and it could actually end up at under 9% when all the votes are counted.
Check this link http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?Functio...
with 99.44% reporting she's at 9.2% and a small swing in Obama's direction could take that below 9%. I don't think she's going to get a double digit win and the media isn't reporting this accurately.
Delusional is a good word to describe the Obama supporters on this thread. What a hateful bunch to boot. Fact - Obama has not been able to carry even one of the big swing states so far. Fact - Obama has spent a boat load of money and still cannot close the deal. Fact - Obama can carry 100% of the black vote in Nov. and not win any of those states he's now counting as a win. Fact - The media has been carrying him and making excuses for him for a very long time all the while trashing Hillary 24/7 but the people are now taking a better look and voting for the one they like and believe can win against McCrazy. It's not Obama. He will not be able to carry states like Ohio, PA and Florida in the general and he will not turn MS, SC, etc. blue in Nov.
The most fun thing about last night was watching Keith, Rachael and Gene Robinson's faces. They all had the same look my dog does when he's been caught eating "tootsie rolls" from the cat box.
Bluesage @ 144:
Gee, why did you feel the need to point this out, I wonder?
Smitty @ 140
You need to brush up on your history. Jefferson was instrumental in forming the Republican Party.
Travis @ 145
Because it's the truth. His wins in the bible belt were because he's getting more than 90% of the black vote and in the general that will not help him. Don't try to make this statement something it isn't. It's just one of those pesky facts that many don't want to hear.
Bluesage @ 144:
While you are citing all of your 'facts' as you put it, mostly conjecture, you fail to bring up the Republican crossover that has gone on. It has been en masse for Clinton courtesy of Rush's ditto heads et al.
That fact skews everything. It is pure conjecture to analyze it.
The objective fact, versus conjectural 'fact', is that Obama is ahead in delegates and popular vote. Based on the patterns thus far, she will not overcome that.
She is broke and he is sitting on 40 mil.
As for what will happen in the fall, the election is in November and we will know then what those facts are.
There are the objective facts, versus the conjectural 'facts'.
Bluesage @ 147:
Are you saying that black people's votes shouldn't count?
Last night it was reported that it was Obama who was gaining the majority of the Republican crossover votes in the Philly area where most of them were. The republicans are wanting desperately to run against Obama. Hillary's tenacity and strengh scares the hell outta them. They think they can crush Obama and I think they are right.
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