Helen Thomas Confronts Perino On Torture; Perino Denies and Lies
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Apr 22, 2008 7:00pm 
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God bless Helen Thomas, the best thing about the White House Press Corps. More than a week after the revelation that President Bush knew and endorsed the Principals' specific plans of torturing detainees, the media has been largely silent over it other than cursory mentions at best. But Helen Thomas isn't about to go silently into that good night and becomes the first White House reporter to ask White House spokesliar Dana Perino about how the president could have lied multiple times that we do not torture only to turn around and admit that not only do we, but he approved of it.
Unfortunately, the designation of "spokesliar" fits Perino very well, as she denies and lies again that the U.S. does not torture. Who you gonna believe, Perino or your lying eyes?
During this afternoon’s White House press briefing, reporter Helen Thomas noted that Bush “has admitted that he did sign off on torture” saying it damages “the credibility of this country.” But press secretary Dana Perino denied that the United States has ever tortured detainees and referred to testimony from CIA Director Michael Hayden as evidence. [..]
In fact, during a February 5 Senate Intelligence Committee hearing, Hayden said outright that “waterboarding has been used” on three detainees in U.S. custody. But Hayden has refused to label waterboarding “torture,” calling it a “legal term” which seems to fit nicely with the Bush administration’s self-serving narrowed legal definition.
But waterboarding is torture and illegal under both U.S. and international law – with experts, government officials and those who have been subject to the harsh treatment all agreeing.
Seeming to acknowledge her colleagues’ absence on this story, an exasperated Thomas said out loud after her exchange with Perino: “Where is everybody? For God’s sakes.”
That's the $64,000 question, Helen. Where is everybody?
Kossack Elisinora finds that no one in the Principals group really wants to be confronted with the reality of their decisions. (h/t Heather)
Full Transcript below the fold:
THOMAS: The President has said publicly several times, in two consecutive news conferences a few months ago, and you have said over and over again, we do not torture. Now he has admitted that he did sign off on torture, he did know about it. So how do you reconcile this credibility gap?
MS. PERINO: Helen, you're taking liberties with the what the President said. The United States has not, is not torturing any detainees in the global war on terror. And General Hayden, amongst others, have spoken on Capitol Hill fully in this regard, and it is -- I'll leave it where it is. The President is accurate in saying what he said.
THOMAS: That's not my question. My question is, why did he state publicly, we do not torture --
MS. PERINO: Because we do not.
THOMAS: -- when he really did know that we do?
MS. PERINO: No, that's what I mean, Helen. We've talked about the legal authorities --
THOMAS: Are you saying that we did not?
MS. PERINO: I am saying we did not, yes.
THOMAS: How can you when you have photographs and everything else? I mean, how can you say that when he admits that he knew about it?
MS. PERINO: Helen, I think that you're -- again, I think you're conflating some issues and you're misconstruing what the President said.
THOMAS: I'm asking for the credibility of this country, not just this administration.
MS. PERINO: And what I'm telling you is we have -- torture has not occurred. And you can go back through all the public record. Just make sure -- I would just respectfully ask you not to misconstrue what the President said.
THOMAS: You're denying, in this room, that we torture and we have tortured?
MS. PERINO: Yes, I am denying that.
Elaine, did you have one?
Q I have one on Zimbabwe, actually.
THOMAS: Where is everybody?
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"God bless Helen Thomas"
I'll second that
Everyone else is too worried about their lousy careers to say this stuff.
Torture has not occurred?
Wow.
That's a statement...even for her.
God Bless Helen Thomas
hey, can we lock up perrino along with her bosses??
i want her to come out of jail a wrinkled old hag
btw, i didnt rob that bank...i liberated the funds
[Changing your name won't help you, RIP USA/RASTA/WELDON. Disengage your Caps Lock and I'll approve it. Thank you. Site Monitor]
Torture in the name of the free, more misery for you and me
They ship ‘em out so we can’t see the way they bring ‘em to their knees
-Wackiavelli
Erik @ 3:
Its absurd even in that this Q & A is utter torture.
Perino really feels she is superior. Her ego has the office next to hers.
Love Helen Thomas, but she misses the mark. The issue is Bush's definition of torture. Helen glosses over that and jumps straight to: Bush has admitted to torture. Helen needs to ask if Bush disagrees with the dozens of treaties, international organizations, the Nuremberg charter, in defining waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc., as torture.
None of the reporters do their homework. That's what kills me. This is the closest thing we get to a deposition, and nobody brings in the marked exhibits and reads the earlier transcripts.
Also dude.....keeping domesticated...within city limits...that ain't legal either.
even though it looks like and feels like torture it's not torture?? more like a thing fraternities do for initiation fun. now i get it..
"It ain't a lie if you tell it enough."
-Wackiavelli
Dana Perino works for Bush she's going to spin for Bush.
Her own conscience will make her ill at some point.
Yes, where are the calls for their resignations and trials to begin?
Where are our leaders on this war crime?
Helen Thomas and the ACLU are the only ones speaking out?
WTF?
this administration is fucked-up.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Helen Thomas.
She is one of the best arguments I can think in favor of the advancement of cloning technology. We need a 100 of her.
I imagine Perino was well briefed on how to fluff the answer. Disgusting and weird these Republican statements.
When Obama is inaugurated, the first thing he should do is bestow a Presidential Medal of Freedom on Helen Thomas. The second thing he should do is ask for a Special Prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration war crimes.
If we had more like Helen, we might not be in this stupid war.
bless her. and fuck Perino for being the dirty lying [deleted--that word may be okay for McCain, but not okay for this site] she is.
"Where is everybody?" --- Helen Thomas
Was she asking where are the sheeple? I'm sure she must know the answer to that question.
Whenever I hear Dana Perino, I immediately think of Retired General Tommy Franks's comment that former Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith was the "f****** stupidest guy on the face of the earth." Dana Perino, in addition to being a serial liar, like virtually everyone else in the Bush administration, is undoubtedly in contention for the role as the "f****** stupidest woman on the face of the earth."
God bless Helen Thomas. The rest of the White House press corps should be ashamed of themselves.
This great lady has more "cojones" than any other person in the Washington corps. The rest are just afraid to tell the White House off. What a bunch of fearfull idiots!
I don't know about the rest of you, but Dana Perino gives me the creeps with those soul-less eyes of hers.
May she forever be haunted by her lies, her deceit, her cover-ups.
Most of all, may the ugliness inside this woman manifest itself on that pretty exterior. She gives new meaning to the expression, "beauty is only skin deep."
There was only one angel in that crowd, and that was Helen Thomas, who recognizes evil when she hears it and sees it.
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Yeah, Bush doesn't think waterboarding is torture. Isn't that what you do at the beach? You take the big board and float on the water... ride some waves and stuff. Probably did that with his frat buddies on spring break. We didn't torture them, we took them to the freakin' beach! Idiots.
I love Helen.
"Where is everybody"?
Are you kidding me?
These people have very cushy jobs, jobs their brethren would kill for (reporters are getting laid off in favor of pundits these days), and all they have to do is toe the line and go along with the farce.
And they know, they all know, that to step out of line, to dare to ask a non-softball question, is to lose the cushy job, to not be there the next day, to have their place filled by a rabid, young, "ends justify the means" smarmy business type, willing to say and do whatever is needed and required by his bosses.
And people wonder how nazism started...
I have exchanged emails with Helen on two different occasions. She is very warm and approachable. If you want to send her a personal appreciative email, here is her contact:
hthomas@hearstdc.com
In the world of Bush
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck they’re going to tell you it’s a cat because that’s how they’ve set the definitions.
Ms. Cappuccino…er … Perino has been told that if she admits that when Bush admitted to torture that he admitted to torture she would be tortured. Er…. Something like that. It certainly is torture listening to her bullshit the bullshitters, isn’t it?
Helen kicks ass. Perino is repulsive.
I sure hope they prosecute these assholes when all is said and done.
More important that all this ' harsh language and gentle slaps of naughty detained people'
Is this
alas poor Britney/ Paris/ and whatshername move on over.
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 17:
sure. i'd recommend patrick fitzgerald. he's a republican, lest anyone accuse obama of waging a partisan witchhunt.
and has no one else noticed karl rove's name didn't turn up on the torture cabal list?
looks like someone was smart enough to call in sick to work that day...
i bet when all the 9/11 stuff gets out, you won't find rover's fingerprints, either...
i bet his already jumped ship and fingered everyone. i bet he's that good...
*he's
(sorry, i'm an old man with trembling fingertips and i'm still kinda gettin' used to these internets...)
Don't you just love fascism with a smile and designer clothes? I love the way Perino stands there and acts as though what she is saying has any shred of truth or legitimacy to it. It is as though they humor poor Helen and use words like "conflating" to make it seems as though the journalist is out of touch, when in fact Perino knows she is a bald-faced fascist liar. I'm not that old yet, but I certainly hope I live long enough to see each of these pricks in orange jumpsuits and wetting themselves as they face the gallows. I'll bet not a one of them goes to their execution with half the dignity that bastard Saddam did. On the other hand, if they are never made to pay for their crimes, I'm not sure I want to be around to see the kind of world they will create. It's rather sickening.
Regards,
Robert
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 17:
and the third thing is have dana perino thrown before a grand jury for
perjury and her part in the bush crimes.
Rove is he has any sense is getting ready to finger the others, first ones to tell all, avoids the lengthy prison sentences.
gffish @ 20:
i think dana beats out paris hilton for fuckingstupidestwoman.
O/T But why does the Clinton campaign get away with including Michigan and Florida in the delegate/popular vote conversation? If she keeps it up and she happens to win the nomination I am beginning to think I will NOT vote for her. It is just over the top. Sorry for the off topic post. I had to vent.
Another day, another small step toward corpocracy.
I'm now growing my own tomatoes and turnips. It makes me feel cleaner.
wonder how 7,000 documents held by the CIA will change that?
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CIA_has_7000_documents_relating_to_0423.html
americangoy @ 24:
God dammit, don't call Bushism Nazism! Nazism emerged in a very different time and a different climate.
What we'd be witnessing is the genesis of the Theocrats and plutocrats merging. That's where the American Fascism will come from. Not from Hitler's movement that was destroyed. The American Right isn't forgiving of historical losers, and Hitler lost big time.
Bushism is an American counterpart to Bismarckism, with Bismarck having more genius at it, but that's what it is. Bismarck provoked a Culture War (Kulturkampf) and then resulted in the lowering of German political discourse.
Hitler wasn't even born when Bismarck was doing this.
I agree that Bushism bears stronger resemblances to fascism than it's given credit for, but it isn't even worthy of tying Italian fascism's jackboots.
Good lord. Bush has bragged about it. What is Perino smoking?
At this point, the WH line has been, 'We did torture, and it was both necessary and legal.'
1Watt @ 40:
Szymany is not well covered by Google maps (surprise), compared to other Polish towns and areas.
This administration has to be a Star War Fan!
"These aren't the torture droid your looking for" *Dana wave arms across the pulpit*
"these aren't the "Hayden torture memo" your looking at" * Dana waves arm again*
I bet she plays hide and seek by closing her eyes and pretend she is invisible!
ferrofluid @ 43:
Szczytno the nearest large town is empty of detail apart from road info too.
Tim in Japan @ 15:
Therapeutic cloning research is working towards make parts for replacing her worn ones. Can't expect clones to be good thinkers just on genes, setting your kind sentiment aside.
Duplicating her ability to reason and care? That's going to take education and individual effort.
Widespread @ 39:
Too late, it's here.
God bless Helen Thomas. She is sadly, the last of a dying breed, real journalists. When the hell is this country going to wake up from it's collective stupor and hold these criminals accountable? Congress won't. The press won't. The citizenry won't.
Did the CIA put some drug into the nation's water supply and turn us all into zombies?
More and more I feel like this country is in a downward spiral that seems inevitable. Are we going to suffer the fate of ancient Rome. Or would pre war Germany be a better analogy?
interesting... bill clinton gets impeached for his narrow definition of sex, but bush can claim that he doesn't torture (perhaps because he feels it's not torture if burly guys in spiked leather outfits are not involved) and remains unchallenged. so i guess if clinton had used the cigar to burn holes in her face to extract information, things would have been just fine.
Except for Helen Thomas, there are very few real journalists existing.
Watching the White House Press corp "proceedings" is like watching a skit on Saturday Nite Live. It's a freaking joke!
Perhaps it's good we know what goes on in that high schoolish room. In years to come, we'll realize we saw the demise of journalism and network news die right in front of our own eyes. And the majors have only themselves to blame with their trash and brain washing they still think they can get away with.
Thank goodness for the "internets". Viva La Internets!
General_Rennenkampf @ 41:
with all due respect, general, ya got a little catchin' up to do...
might find this one useful, too...
sorry general, wrong first link... here's the real one.
God Bless Helen Thomas one of the few in that press room who holds their feet to the fire. A truly independent press corp would rise up in that room and demand the truth. Not getting it would lead to headlines and put the WH on notice that the press, speaking on our behalf, will not support this dog and pony show any longer. Why do they not? Because they are owned by the corporate powers that be and their very jobs are at stake. So they go along with the dog and pony show and everybody is happy. When any elected official begins to act like a king and refuses to answer to the people who put him there you know that dark deeds are afoot.
Sorry, it's another round won by the administration. As much as I love Helen, she's playing the same damn losing hand the press has been playing for years. It really shouldn't be this hard. The administration essentially defines "torture" out of existence in a series of memos that have been available to the public for at least three years. Then the press thinks they're going to stick it to them by asking about "torture" and we're shocked (shocked!) that the administration will continue denying that we've tortured. No shit. Given what they mean by that word, nobody could torture. They have essentially redefined it in such a way that while there are conditions _necessary_ for something to count as torture there are no conditions that _suffice_ for torture. The press should stop using that word. It just gives the administration the out they were looking for when they put their ghouls to work. Ask about the waterboarding, the beating, the Palestinian hanging, etc. Get them to deny _that_ and we might actually get somewhere.
Go get 'em, Helen!
Blaed @ 1:
ME TOO!
I love that woman.
She seems to be the only one left with any sence of right and wrong and the ethical responsibilities of journalism.
I hope she is included in the war crimes trials along with Bush and co. She might think she's above that but she is the lowest of the low and certainly deserves to be in hand cuffs along with the rest. We can only hope. Please prosecute them!
Perino is just vile. What a shrew, and so condescending. She reminds me of Hillary. ...(C'mon, lighten up. That last bit was a joke.)
getalife @ 13:
they are too busy worrying about flag pins and sniper fire.
If I ever got the opportunity to meet Helen Thomas, I would probably hug her and break out in tears.
And I mean that.
Perino, the Torture Queen.
Helen is a National Treasure.
Can we torture Perino to find out what she knows? I meant 'waterboard'...sorry.
I wonder if what she means to say (partly under her breatch) is, "We do not torture, we outsource it to Syria and Egypt?" She needn't add that this administration fully approves The outsourcing says it already.
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 17:
While the so called journalists are talking about flag pins and sniper fire, who raised more money and what the demographics are no one is paying attention to this and so much more. Disgusting.
Thank God for Helen Thomas.
I'd like to see her moderate a debate.
Maybe she would have the cajones to ask the candidates if they are willing to investigate and prosecute... and retroactive impeachment.
Oh, and when are we going to buy back our IOU to China.
Thats just for starters.
Whoever can answer an unreserved yes with no qualifications to the investigation. prosecution, impeachment should be President IMFHO!
Notice how Dana squirms everytime Helen starts to ask a question? She knows her usual line of bullsh!t isn't going to fly with her.
MacDaKnife @ 26:
Thanks.
I did send her a "thanks" once and she did reply. I was very pleasantly surprised.
Bush administration to America - through Perino: "we know we are lying, you know we are lying, and what's more, we know that you know we are lying. What part of that don't you understand?"
"We do not tell the truth and therefore we're working with Congress to make sure that as we go forward, we make it more possible to do our job."
Someone tell me why Lynndie Rana England went to prison than?
Paul's Bunions @ 69:
Lewd photography.
If bush is waterboarded would he admit he OKed torture?
Helen Thomas is incredible, and perhaps the only loud-spoken woman on behalf of the press. I found another post on her this morning. Thought I'd share:
http://www.petermanseye.com/anthologies/cowbo...
Cheers!
Dana Perino is a spinbot. I can't listen to her. She sounds like a pre-recording, almost the like the recordings played when you ask information for a phone number.
Lollimom @ 22:
Yep, she definitely creeped me out in this clip.
Thomas should have followed up with asking when was it decided that waterboarding is not torture, considering we prosecuted Japanese for doing just that.
Captain Bitter Elitist Hussein Kangaroo @ 71:
If Bush is waterboarded i will denounce whoever did it.
I'm firmly convinced Dana Perino's role model was a Stepford Wife. They could put a fucking pre-recorded tape message in her place and it would be more responsive.
God Bless Helen Thomas, but I'm actually praying for the day when she has her Howard Beale moment -- screams out, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore," picks up her chair and throws it at Perino. And I hope she doesn't miss.
so i guess thier wont be a helen thomas is an old fart thread comeing up anytime soon, maby older folks do have a use!!! you go girl! out live them all ! i intend to!
Poor Dana. She was hired for her mouth, yes... but not for its ability to speak.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 74:
i agree. if and when the tables are turned, it's going to be the damn dirty pacifist hippies like you and i who spare these miscreants and scoundrels from cruel and unusual punishment.
it really is ironic... don't you think?
Careful Dana, your elitism is showing.
Awesome speech.
*you and me
(sorry, monitors, i'm a coupla cans short of a sixpack tonight)
[Misuse of pronouns isn't just a banning offense, it's a capital crime. Don't let it happen again. ; ) Site Monitor]
bullfrog @ 78:
you're correct. Can we break the rule just once?
When Helen retires they may as well close that damned steno-pool.
How unfortunate that this bunch of cowards in the press pool need a physically incapacitated older woman to lead the way. How despicable.
maby helen all the people weve tortured in bushes and the american people can hold a reunion someday and get even!
99Lufballons @ 84:
It’s funny that that Gregory guy (what’s his fucking first name?) asked some pretty good questions sometimes and got into a few “shouting” matches and then he got his own TV show and now acts like Tucker Carlson.
Where Is The Outrage
In times of old, this country's outrage was a powerful tool that kept many government wrong doing in check. Today, like everything else, we shout loud in our initial response, but we do nothing to match our outrage.
The current congressional and senate hearings are a joke. The Republicans have just enough power to gridlock everything and blame the Democrats for a "do nothing" posture. How many times have the representatives from both houses held hearings concerning our gas prices? A whole lot of nothing resulted from them, and the oil companies are now taking any form of complaint as just a small response for the Billions of dollars they are stealing from the American people. The gas situation has caused inflation, recession, and many other economic problems. Why can't we stop this form of monopoly?
It makes me wonder, with the billions of dollars being collected in profit by the oil companies, how much money do you need in a life time. This is money after expenses. You can only spend so many billions in a life time. However, if you take just one of those billions and buy off any opposition, you can keep the money flowing for ever. Yes, 2 million dollars for each key prosecutors or congressmen can go a long ways. It can create a situation in which it would take very committed people to stop it.
We have got to stop those entrusted in oversight from stopping short of prosecuting the wrong doing in our country. We need a "do something" theme for this coming election. The focus for the next wave of representatives have got to begin turning this unchecked disregard for human life around to the proud days of old when we cared.
At the time of this post, there was only 60 hits for this very important issue. You would think the outrage should be overflowing concerning this nation's torture policies. This administration has made us hated throughout the world. We were never the bad guy in the way we are today. Something must be done.
Joseph
Captain Bitter Elitist Hussein Kangaroo @ 82:
i'm opposed to the death penalty, and i'm even in favor of relatively light sentences in exchange for total truth.
remember, the goal isn't vengeance, it's to make sure our country never gets overthrown by shadowy forces from within, ever again.
MacDaKnife @ 26:
Thanks. Done.
bullfrog @ 78:
Not really a matter of irony as it is a matter of morality which our Constitution and Habeas Corpus and the Geneva Conventions are based on even if imperfectly.
Amnesty International presents...
http://www.unsubscribe-me.org/
watch the films "The stuff of life"
and "Waiting for the guards"
http://www.unsubscribe-me.org/waitingfortheguards.php
From the website:
During the making of The Stuff of Life, the “detainee” underwent waterboarding. Though he always had the ability to stop (something real detainees do not have) it was important to the filmmakers that this film is authentic. It is not a dramatisation.
A lot of care was taken to have full medical supervision. The filmmakers used a hi tech camera to shoot the water hitting the detainees mouth at 1000 frames a second.
Is this torture? We think it is. We want people to make that decision for themselves. If you think it is, sign up, take action against it, become an unsubscriber, and spread the word. Pass this film on to all of your friends and colleagues, and make a difference.
Waiting For The Guards is the first of 3 films commissioned by Amnesty to highlight the enhanced interrogation techniques used by the CIA in the “War on Terror”.
The Directors approached the making of the film in a way that has never been done before, choosing to show the reality of Stress Positions in as authentic a way as possible. They filmed a person being put into Stress Positions over a 6 hour period. There is no acting on the part of the “prisoner” – his pain and anguish is for real.
This powerful film shows without doubt that what the US administrations say is interrogation is in reality, torture and must be stopped.
That's where the Christian right gets it wrong. This country is not narrowly based on Christianity. It is based on morality. That scares them because when they take their faith and twist it into something to use for immoral ends they can't claim this country is based on what they believe.
bullfrog @ 81:
thanks for your patience and understanding. i suppose i could also be taken to task for about 3 years worth of chronic capitalization violations, erratic employment of slang, and for incessant ad hominem attacks on crushed limpballs *ahem* rush limbaugh...
I am both pro noun and pro verb.
In politics to lie is OK unless you are under oath. Doesn't Hellen know that yet?? This explains why the press corp. never replays evidence that shows two contradictory statements and then calls it a lie. Because there is nothing wrong with lies, unless they are under oath. The only News shows that do lay out these contradictory statements in terms so stark that even the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and apparently Dana Perino would be hardpressed to shake off with still more lies are the Daily Show and the Colbert Report on the Comedy Channel. These shows are the ones that should be taken seriously and the mainstream media news shows are the ones that are the joke.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 90:
i heard both jesus christ and benjamin franklin were both damn dirty hippies... is it any wonder our country's down the crapper?
bullfrog @ 96:
Al i am really sure of is Ben slept around a lot more than Jesus.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 94:
i am too, but i'm not antidisestablishmentarianism...
Their regime just can't end fast enough.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 97:
i heard benjamin franklin was one of those wizards they warned us about in sunday school. yankin' electricity out of the sky and giving it to man, printing unsavory words about beloved king george on his printing press....
played pranks & made fart jokes, too.
vile, vile man that franklin...
Joseph, how correct you are. Moral Outrage has all but disappeared from the public discourse. The truth: nobody really cares. It has it hit home before anyone actually takes note. That is why whoever holds the power can get away with saying and doing whatever they please. They are in bed with the powerful corporations who are the ones actually pulling the strings. It's business, all about business. The "bottom line" has stolen our souls. It's okay to make Lynndie England the scapegoat, who really cares about her? As long as it never rose above that level we allowed it to happen. Accountability? No such thing. Just look at how many Bush losers are currently holding down highly paid and visible jobs. Scooter Libby? He will receive a full pardon. No hearings were ever seriously considered for "high crimes and misdemeanors". How many books have been published in the last 5 years clearly documenting a trail of criminal activity and then tell me how much congress did in holding anyone accountable? Very few. Abramoff was so blatant that they could not easily turn a blind eye but other than one or two others have actually paid the price. As long as corporations continue to wield the stranglehold they have on government nothing will change. We will continue to shop and watch American Idol and hope nothing "important" intrudes upon our own little lives.
VegasRage @ 99:
Well, two of our three Presidential candidates are all for nuking Iran. We may someday be looking back in fond memory of George W. Bush. The days before no country would trade with us and we had to make our own clothes and burn coal to stay warm in the winter.
Pat J @ 53:
God Bless Helen Thomas and give her the strength to persevere through these dark times when liars and torturors can do so with impunity in the top offices of the US Government, a place that stood as a beacon of hope to the world and has now become a joke, a cadre of villains, a den of theives, murderers and torturers. It must be so depressing for her to have to sit and watch and do everything she can to hold this administration accountable for their actions, their lies, their deceipt and yet the blitzkrieg of corruption continues seemingly unabated. Hang tough Helen Thomas. Thanks for your years of service and so many of us are with you and wish you many more.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 92:
well, it's a complex issue because our founding fathers came about at the apex of the enlightenment. but they were certainly steeped in christian tradition. thomas jefferson cut the parts out of the bible he thought were utter crap, and if you know your bible history (rome, etc.) it's not nearly so blasphemous as some would have you believe. what jefferson was left with were mainly the actual words of christ himself, which philosophically and spiritually he was more or less in line with. even benjamin franklin made his peace with the quakers and went and spoke out against slavery before he left the earth.
myself? mostly christian w/ a healthy dose of buddhism, and a very generpous sprinkling of flying spaghetti monster.
Don Webber @ 27:
You have it right on the money.
mystic @ 105:
That doesn't mean to say he will win in his war crimes trial. But that will be his defence. Sounds crazy, but unless its the Hague I wouldn't trust anyone in our Supreme Court. They've proven to be the bottom of the heap. They ought to be included in convicted for their 2000 coup which started this nightmare. Thanks Sandra. Hope you rot in hell.
Q: "Where is everybody?"
A: Trying to protect their "access" to "high level sources" thats where.
The Bush II White House has provided enough material for another Watergate - the MSM Press Corps (on both sides of the beltway) are just too lazy to do the research and report it.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 92:
Now there you go again talking about morality. The sworn bushies are all about amorality. If you don't know right from wrong, you can only be judged insane. I think turning Gitmo into a big asylum for these nutcases is the perfect result. After all, we've all been forced to pay for it. Miss Taylor? Mr. Gonzales? Mr. Cheney? We have your numbers and we won't forget what you have done to this country.
xoites (Bitter Before Country Was Cool) defends Constitution @ 92:
And based on nothing more than that morality all we would need to remember is: Do unto others. How much easier it would be to live in this world if we all just abided by those 3 words alone.
mystic @ 106:
it will be interesting if there is a war crimes trial for these guys, and it will be interesting to hear them argue on behalf of their leo straussian beliefs -that knowledge is too important for the masses, that only certain individuals should lead.
it's precisely the thing the enlightenment was supposed to be against. adam weishaupt founded his secret society may 1st, 1776 to demolish monarchism because no one else was doing it...
and like so many other things in life, it got utterly corrupted...
Since Helen Thomas is wiser and smarter than Perino and Bush, it's probably doubtful that neither her or W actually saw the pix of prisoners being tortured. Dana Perino is clearly covering up and lying pretending to be in denial, when it seems so superficial for her to say it, it's like she is a robot who can only respond with limited programmed answers circularly, as well as the other WH press secretaries including Snow, McLellin, et al.
Dana Perino hates Americans. We don't torture ? Watch "Taxi to the Dark Side" and try to explain to me the HOMICIDES that we committed in Afghanistan... Dana Perino and the Republicans hate Americans !
One wonders if the Iraqi people think of the Bush administration in these terms.
http://www.miniaturegigantic.com/258.html
So umm... hands up anybody who thinks having a press gaggle crowd around and question an official government spokesperson/propagandist is a remotely effective way of getting objective facts let alone admissions of wrongdoing of any level?
Seriously, why bother? At best, it is diversion from real journalism. At worst it is becoming part of the propaganda machine.
=my2c
Tokyo Perino, White House propagandist.
when war crimes are committed, propagandists are convicted the same as principals. members of the msm need to be reminded of this.
Perino's just putting in time until she gets hired by CNN, just like Tony Snowjob. Where is everybody, Helen? The well fed, well pampered Administration lapdogs like David Gregory are hiding. You see, they're important opinion makers; if they piss off the Bush regime, then they won't have access to the White House anymore and, consequently, people like Tim Russert and Tweety Matthews won't suck their dicks on the Sunday morning political gossip and official propaganda shows. Here's to Helen Thomas! The only true journalist in a room full of second-rate whores.
OK, I know that the important issue here is torture, and Helen Thomas is the lone real journalist in the White House Press Corps(e,) and that Dana Perino's job is clearly to obfuscate (or just outright lie,) and that women are unfairly subjected to ridiculous questions about perpheral things all the time. I know these things to be true.
But what's the deal with Perino's outfit? She literally looks like she's wearing a costume from a 1950s Buck Rogers short.
I'm sorry if my question distracts from the more important issues, but jeez. It's awefully weird.
Dana Perino is working for the Ministry of Truth, a la Orwell.
Only now with the access to video and transcripts of statements, the most they can do is narrow their definition of what is illegal and stick to the story.
It seems to be enough, it seems work astonishingly well, when it shouldn't.
The integration of the Corporate Media, the imbedding exchange program via the revolving door of Corporations and Government, all of this produces the deafening silence.
The people at large watch their teevees, they think the journalists are actually doing their jobs. They think they know what is going on, they haven't a clue.
It is pathetic.
24 CIA on trial in Italy in absentia. Not a mention in the MSM.
Many others may, in the future, have their Pinochet moments.
We can dream.
Why do you have to be an old school journalist to raisze honest questions like Helen?
After Bush shunned her for 3 years, she was finally called on and asked immediately why we really went to war in Iraq.
She is an awesome reporter and a great woman.
I truely think the Bush administration no longer knows what the truth is.
It's not torture unless Dana Perino is there giving a press conference.
JSM @ 121:
you mean they're batshit crazy?
that the walls are closing in on them?
that the headlines are eating them alive, as might a school of pirrhanna hopped up on methamphetamines?
that an avalanche of skulls & bones are pouring out of their closets?
or, that karma's a bitch?
be still my beating heart...
"Where is Everybody?" Seriously. This must have been what it was like to live in the last days of the Weimar Republic... no one daring to question the leader and polite society largely ignoring the atrocities around them.
History Repeats.
americangoy @ 25:
The word is Quisling.
Helen is old enough to know what these collaborator(s) did for the nazis..the press corps and the media in general, and congress are all accessories after the fact.
Dear god, this has happened to our country..
Thak you Helen.
Write her and say so.
dear god i love helen thomas, she should be given a pulitzer for that question.
shame on the white house press corps, they're all useless sheep.
the news corporations need to grow a set comparable to that of the elderly ms thomas.
dana perino has a special place reserved in hell for the bald faced lies she tells that support chimpy and so hurt our republic.
Perino needs to be held accountable for these direct lies to the press and the American people. Being a press secretary does not entitle her to stand there and lie flat out about what everybody saw the president say on video tape.
America does torture. Bush ordered it. His entire cabinet discussed it and approved it in detail. Perino is lying about it.
These people must be put on trial.
It's so disgusting how the republican regime continually lies to the American people, and nothing happens. Nothing. There is simply no recourse.
Dana Perino: Skankalicious!
Does Helen have a huge commemorative statue yet? If not, someone should definitely raise money through the Internet. I betcha lots of people would undertake friggin' pilgrimages to those :P
Help Wanted;
Must be mousey cute. willingness to lie. Ability to lie. And must be able to contend your actually spinning.
Most of all you have to have a high level of detest for America and Americans and are willing to sell them out for money under the guise of being loyal.
Like the one who said she took the oath to the president.
Is Perino one of those polygamas Texas wives?
That the government lies is nothing new. That the people are fooled, also this is not new. That the press just let things go without any pursuit is just so very sad and may very well be America's undoing.
Clayton @ 54:
I realize Helen Thomas is not a lawyer, but Clayton is on the money here: the question gave too easy an out. The Administration is playing games with definitions of "torture" so to jump past that with the question, to assume the definition of torture is met, gives Dana Perino an easy way out with her answer. I also find it strange that people are saying Dana Perino is stupid, I'd suggest she is far from it, but that's not to say clever people don't lie. I don't know if there is an actual Geneva convention ruling on waterboarding but certainly there is no doubt it has been done as CIA Director Michael Hayden has admitted it, Mukasey refuses to state a position on it, and whether or not you accept the rather convincing arguments that it IS torture from the U.S. point of view, the international community is certainly not viewing Abu G, Guantanamo Bay and waterboarding this way. So the questions need to be focused on the known facts: waterboarding is illegal by the Geneva Convention, it was deemed illegal by U.S. law in the past and is obviously so by just a summary reading of U.S. Code, the rest of the world will certainly view it as an illegal practice, it doesn't provide effective intelligence, so why is the U.S. being so reckless in using it?
White House propagandist Tokyo Rose Perino: "The United States does not torture...."
...we fly them to other countries to be tortured.
Bush regime mantra: Lie and Deny.
perino seems to be appropriately dressed in her clown suit.
once again we see helen schooling the press on exactly how their job should be performed. if only they would follow her example and do the job we expect from them.
Robert @ 107:
It's even worse than what you say. I don't think it's lazy at all. These MSM ass-clowns make six and seven figure salaries a year, and they are heavily invested in the pro-corporate markets that employ them.
They simply enjoy gorging themselves at the Court of George II, and don't want to disturb the status quo of which they belong.
The little smile on her young pretty face just sent chills down my spine. This is truly the face of evil.
"Perino denies and lies." So just another day on the job, right?
Well Dana Perino may be the WH spokesperson but shee is also a mother, daughter and (I will giver the benefit of doubt) friend to other people, so this is a fine example she's showing them.
I was told a long time ago....a liar is like an onion....on the surface, all is ok but once you go beyond the skin and keep peeling it back and you get more smelly onion.
That's it...Dana Onionhead.
bullfrog @ 52:
bullfrog @ 51:
All due respect, you have little idea what fascism is. Prescott Bush had dealings with the Nazis, I'm well aware of that. I'm also sure you have no idea that the USSR had far greater deals with the Nazis and was repaid with 20 million of its citizens dead from the Nazi occupation. I understand that Bush's grandpa helped finance the death camps.
But Bush the grandson, not the grandfather is just too damn stupid to be fascist. As I've already explained Nazism was a very specific form of fascism based around Victorian-era racism and extreme German nationalism. It does not logically follow that German nationalism could take over an entirely separate country, namely the US.
There is a protofascist element in this country that is uniquely American. It's called the militia movement and the Christian Patriot movement. Georgie Porgie's not the type, at least to me, to have the brains to use the militia/Christian Patriot movement for his enforcers.
"THOMAS: Where is everybody?"
Helen - There is no 'everybody', there is only you.
Helen Thomas has more balls than any media person in history. God, I love her. I hope she is around for a long, long time.
goodc @ 118:
I'm sure if you visit Free Republic or a similar site you will find hundreds, if not thousands of comments regarding everything from her outfits to her face and voice and demeanor, thats all they practically do when something like this comes out. If you feel you need to rag on an old women for what she wears, maybe you are in the wrong place.
You know I read that wrong, I take that back, thought you were talking about HT with that question about the clothes. You understood the point though and intelligently were right on with your last statement.
I just hope the new president in 2009 starts investigations. Until then, very little will happen.
Well, Helen, EVERYBODY is apparently off sliming Hillary and taking math lessons so they can figure out how Obama can get enough delegates to win the nomination...cause ONLY Hillary can't get enough to win you know...so she should just GO AWAY...
It seems like only an old lady has any balls left in the media.
Kind of sad.
Helen is the pit bull of the media. she is old enough and has experienced enough to know and call bs what it is. i'm afraid that the rest of the press corps is still cowering for their jobs, afraid to ask and pursue an answer to those questions that need to be asked and should have been asked all along. i'm sure when they hit the bed at night, they feel confident that they have done what they as journalists should do. they look at others as not having done enough. but they feel assured in their journalistic integrity that they have attempted to ask the right questions. bottom line: they still have their jobs; they are still part of the white house press corps; if they had pursued answers to the pointed questions as helen has, they would have lost their positions. Well rest easy tonight, you have your positions and the country be damned.
God bless you Helen. you are the only press corp member with any semblance left of integrity. "Where are the rest of them?" clicking their tongues and shaking their heads every time helen is allowed to ask a question.
who you going to believe your lying eyes and your good sense or the white house spokesperson? No Torture, indeed.
No election will fix the immoral, corrupt, evil doers this administration and congress have become. Im amazed Americans gather around the television to view "election results" knowing the corporate media is complicit in the criminal actions of the government including killing 3000 people on 9/11. Free elections have become a joke in this country and do not represent any vehicle of change. We the people must find other ways. Thank you Helen!
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