This Week: Campaign Surrogate Carly Fiorina Doesn't Believe In Economists
First thing, was anyone else get surprised by the uncharacteristically accurate title given to Carly Fiorina in this segment of This Week with George Stephanopoulos? Normally, aren't these surrogates usually called "advisors"? I guess I have to give the chyron operators credit for calling a spade a spade.
John McCain has admitted that he don't know much 'bout the economy, so perhaps it makes perfect sense to him to send out an executive who was ousted from her most prominent position for mismanagement and not producing the returns and corporate profits expected and not see the irony in her dismissing economists' warnings that a gas tax holiday is a bad idea.
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you defend that gas tax holiday? I was talking to Senator Clinton last week. and asked her if she could name a credible economist who could support it, and she couldn't. Can you?
FIORINA: No, I can't, but, you see, I don't think it matters. I'm a...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: How can you say that, though?
FIORINA: Because I think economists sometimes argue about the theory. Economists, right now, are arguing theoretically about whether we're in a recession or not. An American family who is sitting around the kitchen table wondering how they're going to pay for groceries, fill their gas tank, whether they're going to stay in their home, whether or not they can send their kid to college this fall. For them, the economy is in difficulty, and all the theoretical discussion is, sort of, irrelevant.
Yeah, let's not talk to the guys with the edumucation. Trust your gut, that's the Republican way. The whole argument as to whether we're in a recession is comparing apples to tea cups. The reason it's still up for debate resides in which definition of "recession" economists want to use. By the way, Carly, you probably don't want to bring up how bad the economy is for the average American, since it got this way under Republican majority rule, and that doesn't bode well for your non-economic-minded candidate. However, as you proved so aptly at HP, as long as the haves get their fancy jets and other perks, it doesn't really matter how much worry around the kitchen table Joe Sixpack experiences, does it?
Full transcript below the fold
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you heard Senator Reid right there. He says the case against John McCain is he's wrong on all of the big issues, the war and the economy.
FIORINA: Well, I've heard a lot that John McCain is a third Bush term. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was John McCain, after all, who spoke loudly, for four long years, saying that Don Rumsfeld was the worst secretary of defense in history, that the prosecution of the war in Iraq was going badly, and that we needed a new strategy. And we are now executing a new strategy because of John McCain. John McCain has differed with George Bush on global warming, on climate change, on how we should deal with high fuel prices right now, saying that we should stop the fill of the strategic petroleum reserve, for example.
STEPHANOPOULOS: President Bush isn't very enthusiastic about the gas tax holiday, either.
FIORINA: No, he's not. So there are clear places where George Bush and John McCain differ. And I think John McCain will run on his own record, his own character, his own integrity.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you defend that gas tax holiday? I was talking to Senator Clinton last week. and asked her if she could name a credible economist who could support it, and she couldn't. Can you?
FIORINA: No, I can't, but, you see, I don't think it matters. I'm a...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: How can you say that, though?
FIORINA: Because I think economists sometimes argue about the theory. Economists, right now, are arguing theoretically about whether we're in a recession or not. An American family who is sitting around the kitchen table wondering how they're going to pay for groceries, fill their gas tank, whether they're going to stay in their home, whether or not they can send their kid to college this fall. For them, the economy is in difficulty, and all the theoretical discussion is, sort of, irrelevant.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What's not theory is that this is going to cost $9 billion, and money's going to come out of the highway trust fund. That could cost up to 300,000 jobs.
FIORINA: Well, if it continued, yes, but let's talk about how much earmarks that John McCain has said we need to stopped, earmarks...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's using that for the tax cuts?
FIORINA: Well, that $42 billion in the last two years. Discretionary spending has risen 70 percent in the last seven years, another clear difference, by the way, between President Bush and John McCain, who believes that, to get out of a difficult economic time, we have to practice fiscal restraint. We have to grow our economy. And we also have to find ways to reduce the increase in discretionary spending.
Surprise!
#1 Politicians
#2 Weathermen
#3 Economists
Yep- they are on my list, too.
Fiorina is allowed to doubt economists because her leadership at Hewlett Packard was so amazingly successful.
Did I say "successful"? Well, "disastrous" could be more applicable.
Same thing -- only them danged ivory tower ay-leet egg-heads differentiate between success & failure.
Carly's also advising him on the mortgage crisis, with the "Johnny Mac"
why is anyone paying this whore-bag failure to talk about anything??????
I think that when the government is running deficits as they are, that any expenditure should be reviewed to see if we're getting the appropriate bang for the buck. Seeing that this tax holiday proposal doesn't get the appropriate bang for the buck, I lose respect for the economic leadership of those who propose this idea.
So, no economic leadership skills and a promise of more borrow and spend (creating the inflation tax), an enemy recognition deficiency which led us to Iraq, and nothing for health care except to tax workers for imputed income on employer paid insurance premiums; that's about sums up what you get with McCain. Along with more Bush like court appointees.
She is great wiretapping employees.
Hey, I got a question for the failed-businesswoman-turned-political-shill:
If McCain pushes through a gas-tax holiday, somehow, what's to stop big oil from simply keeping the price the same and raking in that money for themselves as pure profit?
Well Obama thinks there is no short term solution.
I say BS.
They can release and stop buying the oil reserve.
They can start using domestic drilling and build refineries.
They can try to get OPEC to produce more and meet with the oil companies and have them subsidize with our government like Iraq and Venezuela.
Of course, this will force Obama to take the lead and put him out there politically. Our economy depends on oil and that is not going to change short term.
Or you can do nothing and continue to watch the econmoy crash.
Remember when science was respected in this country? Remember when educated and intelligent people were looked up to? It's almost to the point where the complete lack any expertise is considered a hallmark of trustworthiness.
That's ok . . . Economists believe in you.
Almost John Galt @ 10:
It's been like that for 7+ years.
Just another Republican , dumb as a box of rocks / insane . As to who they'll interview and quote the friggin networks have lowered the bar so far that it's embedded in the ground .
"Fiorina is allowed to doubt economists because her leadership at Hewlett Packard was so amazingly successful."
Heh, heh. Good point. But I certainly think economics is a miserable science as well. I'd just correct her and say I don't think economists get wrapped up in the _theory_. It's worse. I think they get wrapped up in the _ideology_.
Don't let facts get in the way of bad policy. We don't need bridges or jobs. Not when we can get $28 over the span of 3 months.
Hillary said the same thing. CrooksandLiars, there comes a point when you just have to give someone up.
Ryan @ 13:
Clinton has been pushing this too.
I wonder why Stepha did not ask how we can trust her on the economy when she could not run a fortune500 company well.
getalife @ 9:
I don't believe Texas and Oklahoma have dried up. They can make more money refining it and selling it with out the cost of drilling for it. So on this i say yes, open up those fields and try to do something.
BUT, as for drilling off of the coast of Calif or Oregon and Washington forget it. When those things blow a gasket the mess is unsurmountable. But I say lets drill all over Crawford. Chimpy won't mind , after all, he's an oil man.
Well, if McCain wants to prove himself as George W. Bush part 2 then bringing her aboard makes perfect sense - he needs her to help shore up the "running businesses into the ground and being rewarded financially for it" hole he's had in his campaign. She fits this hole very nicely. She can't be his VP though, the VP is going to have to be someone fatter, creepier, greedier, more ruthless, wealthier, older, and willing to shoot old men in the face as long as they apologize afterwards. Oh, and covered in liver spots with a hump on their back with a heart 3 shades blacker than midnight.
McSame is taking credit for the "surge"?????
abiodun @ 18:
Stephanopoulos is terrible, that's why.
Well, we can blame Georgie and the media whores for letting idiots like this on her show. This is typical science-denying, fact-ignoring Republicanism at it's worst. They should change their party logo from the elephant to the ostrich.
She destroyed the "resource silo" structure that made HP such a power house. She drove that company into the ground and was fired for her incompetence as a CEO. Why on earth would anyone listen to what she has to say about business or economics.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 17:
DavidtheDuke @ 16:
I'm not saying you both are wrong, but if you're going to say something like this, don't you think you should provide a link to support your claim.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 22:
Once people make it up to CEO status, it doesn't matter how horribly they do. They'll still get their bonuses, keep their credibility with the people who matter (to them), and keep getting high-paying jobs. That's Corporate Amerka.
living-abomination @ 20:
Who's he gonna get? Ken Lay is dead.
Emma Hussein Goldman @ 23:
I like that. Is there a good artist out there that can design their new logo for them?
mudshark @ 25:
It's been reported all over, here's one example courtesy of Reuters.
Almost John Galt @ 10:
They are 'educated' all these talking heads, pundits, and business types hold degrees and MBAs of some form or another,
they might be stupid but they have the paper to prove it.
Walker @ 24:
They are trying the same thing at 3M, 5Sing it into mediocrity.
Republicans make their own reality. Duh. Or I should say they are making their own reality -- they haven't produced a product yet.
But don't give up on them. Their dreams will come true eventually, when the make-a-wish fairy grants them their due reward for their faith. /sarcasm
no wonder they kicked her out of hp. she sounds like she was home-schooled. of course, when you intend to continue to fuck shit up, you don't want no stinking economist offering facts or expertise.
stephie is proof that the DLC is the repug wing of the democratic party. did georegie open with how she was fired for snooping on other executives and staff and that she opened herself and her companie to lawsuits? I suppose not.
its so obvious that as soon as the gas tax is removed the price of gas will immediately skyrocket! there will be a surge in demand but no change in supply. when the summer is over and the gas tax returns you'll be paying more than if the break never happened.
you don't need to be an economist to understand that.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 29:
A quote from the Bush Tax advisory board doesn't say anything to me. The Urban Brookings Institute on Taxes? puhleese. That's a repug think tank. got any more?
ferrofluid @ 30:
They hold degrees in things like "political science". I think I see an addition to the oxymoron list.
Barrett D @ 34:
You'll be paying more anyway, with or without a tax. Because gas prices keep rising. And if the Bushies have their way and start war against Iran, expect gas prices to rise even more.
And Fiorina is probably nothing more than a glorified accountant.
mudshark @ 35:
It's been reported all over, here's one example courtesy of Reuters.
A quote from the Bush Tax advisory board doesn't say anything to me. The Urban Brookings Institute on Taxes? puhleese. That's a repug think tank. got any more?
I'm not sure what you're asking for then? I thought you wanted info about Clinton's gas tax holiday?
If God(presuming it exists) told Hillary to give up her torched earth waste of time campaign, she would tell him to go to Hell.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 39:
A quote from the Bush Tax advisory board doesn't say anything to me. The Urban Brookings Institute on Taxes? puhleese. That's a repug think tank. got any more?
I'm not sure what you're asking for then? I thought you wanted info about Clinton's gas tax holiday?
right, that's what I'm asking for. not some report from an unreliable source. An honest,impartial, unbiased report would be nice.
Perfect Republican logic. Run the train right off the cliff. Screw the people.
mudshark @ 19:
You know it is bad when the oil man is looking for ideas. There are solutions but requires leadership and actions. When Wall Street crashes, you will see some action.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 37:
agreed. but the gas price will rise much faster over the summer if the gas tax is removed.
getalife @ 9:
pathetic. do some homework.
the profits from the last three quarters are being funneled into the futures market to drive up the price. speculators are behind the ridiculous rise in prices. the media dutifully plays along by reporting about a Nigerian terrrist group or a refinery fire or a political rumor and the casual mention of the coming war with Iran.
mudshark @ 41:
I'm not sure what you're asking for then? I thought you wanted info about Clinton's gas tax holiday?
right, that's what I'm asking for. not some report from an unreliable source. An honest,impartial, unbiased report would be nice.
Huh? I thought you didn't know that Clinton had proposed the same gas tax holiday as McSame, that's why I linked to the Reuters article. If you're unhappy with the article, you can find your own news reports, right?
I can't stand it when people who don't know about academia, research, and the social sciences talk about theory. Empiricism and theory are intimately related and build off each other. Theory is often grounded in empirical research and empirical research is often guided by theory. When people say things like "well, that's in theory, but not in reality" I cringe because of its ignorance and arrogance. Often these same people don't know anything about the relationship between theory and research. I think they just say it to justify their beliefs on whatever the topic is and not really engage in a grounded discussion. Unfortunately, it's all the more possible and effective because the gap between social sciences and public knowledge in this country is so wide.
It would be good to compile a running list of "common sense," voodoo, superstitious, ant-logic, irrational and frankly heathen beliefs and examples that underlay Republican values, the party of values and core beliefs. For a start, consider:
1. continued belief that Iraq had WMD,
2. that there was an Iraq connection to 9/11,
3. that people will not notice advocacy for massive tax cuts for the rich because McCain wants to give them 28 cents a day for three months in gas savings,
4. that the No Child Left Behind program actually leaves no child behind, that it actually works,
5. that abstinence education reduces pregnancy and teen sex,
6. that filling jails with people found with small amounts of pot reduces pot use or
7. confining over one per cent of the adult male population in jails reduces crime,
8. that capital punishment is civilized and reduces murder,
9. that creationism is science,
10. that people enlist in the armed forces out of patriotism and not because they are driven by poverty or able to avoid prison in so doing,
11. that America, with 50 million uninsured and 100 million underinsured citizens has the best health care system in the world,
12. that America is the greatest country in the world,
13. that senility is not evident in a candidate such as McCain, their leading shaman who keeps on his person a lucky compass, a lucky feather, a lucky penny and, at times, a lucky rock to touch on only a few of his batshit crazy beliefs.
These are the people that purport to uphold "Christian" values while they wallow in ignorance and delusion one might expect to find in the nineteenth century.
Sadly, there are some other than Republicans who believe in some of these myths and delusion. If you are included, give some thought to actually looking past your nose and the borders of America and get educated.
Barrett D @ 44:
I dunno!? Economizing is beyond my ken.
FIORINA: Well, I’ve heard a lot that John McCain is a third Bush term. Nothing could be further from the truth.
LOL right you lying sack of spin.
See the "twist" they are trying to dupe the public with.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 46:
right, that's what I'm asking for. not some report from an unreliable source. An honest,impartial, unbiased report would be nice.
Huh? I thought you didn't know that Clinton had proposed the same gas tax holiday as McSame, that's why I linked to the Reuters article. If you're unhappy with the article, you can find your own news reports, right?
no offense, but you made the comment ,not me. so I suppose it should be up to you to provide the links to prove your point.
My point is, We all get our info from the MSM. and should be taken with a grain of salt. As for this particular story, I was out of the country for 3 weeks so I missed most of this. I don't see the price of gas going up just because there is a break on the taxes. But I do see that our Highways and infrastructure are in horrible shape. So this is a no brainer to me.
Almost John Galt @ 10:
and another half-generation of No-Child-Left-Behind and we'll have that complete Idiocracy.
CoIntelPro against Repug DoucheBaggery @ 45:
Speaking of which, people are starving so some oil companies can see record profits.
January 16, 2004
Fiorina. On a mission to retain her right to send high-paying U.S. jobs to low-paying countries such as India and Russia.
"There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore," said Fiorina, dressed in black power smock and slacks combo that may have been manufactured inexpensively in China, but more likely was tailored at considerable cost in Italy. "We have to compete for jobs."
In 2003 Ms. Fiorina received a cash compensation of $3,518,460.00 from HP. Included in this figure was mortgage assistance in the amount of $83,210.00. This mortgage assistance is available to all HP Executive that relocate though why she would get this for 3 straight years escapes me. This put her in the 98th percentile of Executive Pay scale and was higher than the amount Michael Dell received from Dell.
http://paycheck.demo.marklogic.com/detailed-exec-comp.xqy?company=Hewlet...
I may be wrong but somehow I doubt she can truly understand what it's like to rob Peter to pay Paul or wonder if she can put food on the table or if she can pay for healthcare for her children. She may be able to sympathize with those people but I doubt she understands and understanding is more important than sympathy when you have situations like this.
Somewhere we have to put more of the common people (for want of a better term) back into Congress and you do that with campaign financing reform. There is just too much of a disconnect from the millionaires who are now the Representatives and Senators and you and me.
Last but not least, the biggest oxymoron in the country used to be military intelligence. Now I think it may just be Republican Think Tank.
FIORINA: "Well, I’ve heard a lot that John McCain is a third Bush term."
We all know that a third Bush term would be a hell of a lot better than a second Jimmy Carter term, Carly.
mudshark @ 51:
You can go to Clinton's website and learn all about her gas tax holiday. This was her idea. The MSM didn't invent it.
Wow, and all along years back, I thought this woman was genuine. Now she is standing up for this flip flopper??? You can tell that she is also full of it. Same talking points zzzzzzzz...... Hopefully the media will catch the ball and start hounding Mccain for all the crap he says all day.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 57:
Thank You Leslie.
dennis @ 56:
You meant JFK's second term.
mudshark @ 51:
By the way, Mudshark, I'm still not clear what it is you want me to support? I only said that Clinton also had a gas tax holiday plan, like McSame. It's been all over the news, as I said, and all you have to do is Google it.
getalife @ 9:
I say BS to you for spouting the rethug line. Untapped reserves in this country amount to a drop in the bucket for world oil supplies and would have little effect on prices especially since the current spike has more to do with speculation and the falling dollar more than anything else. Building more refineries would leave unused refineries as the oil companies wouldn't use them. The refineries now are operating nowhere near capacity.
OPEC is probably already near or at capacity and even if they could increase production it wouldn't have any effect because of what's happening with the dollar.
Doesn't it make more sense to start taking measures to get off the oil kick than demand more fixes for our addiction?
You know, Fiorina is correct, in that the oil companies have not been making high enough profits. So let's give them the money that would have gone to gas taxes, which would have been used to rebuild our infrastructure and roadway jobs. In fact, let's find more tax money we can funnel over to them.
Next thing we know, they start telling is that
raising the gas prices will be good for the economy.
Oh - They already did that on a Fox News broadcast this past Saturday morning.
Next thing we know, they will start putting subliminal messages and images of McCain on the ABC logo.
Oh - They already did that on a Fox News broadcast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSAOQuLxSdY
Idiotland @ 62:
{Deleted, Flame Baiting, knock off the insults. Site Monitor.]
dennis @ 56:
Wow dennis, I didn't know Jimmy Crater was running again, and I see they let you out again to go trolling in the park.
Steve @ 47:
To people with no education, theory==guess.
Therefore, their guess is as good as anyone else's.
Yes, I have an education in science, and even logic. I'm a fucking elitist, I guess. Er, theorize.
Left&Left @ 60:
JFK was much more experienced, not self-entitle and not as effete. And he lowered taxes when the economy was in a downturn, Genius.
So no, I did not mean a second JFK term. Ronald Reagan already provided that for the Dems. Obama even admitted as such.
Emma Hussein Goldman @ 27:
Bill Kristol
diamondmc @ 66:
Obama would be the next Carter, diamondmc. Unless he's the next McGovern or Dukakis, which is more likely.
Jimmy Crater, good one.
Idiotland @ 62:
Actually, Idiotland,
Bush's filling of the strategic oil reserves has raised oil prices beginning in 2003, I believe. Congress has held very angry hearings about it.
From Tom Paine:
Pursang @ 55:
Forget all that propaganda you were told by Carly, that the HP way no longer works in "TODAYS BUSINESS model". She practically destroyed HP. And this is McCains economic advisor?
Carly was the biggest mistake HP made. It became all about "Carly Carly Carly Carly". .Carly this, Carly that.
Everyone bow to Carly. Here comes Carly oh Carly Carly Carly.
They FIRED her ass, thats the bottom line but like all CEO's she still had to be bought off before they could say bye now hit the highway.
The way to stop this crap is to limit the amount of compensation a CEO receives for destroying companies.
Whoops, Idiotland, I thought you were referring to the strategic oil reserve. My bad.
dennis @ 70:
you're smarter then I thought, I didn't think you would have caught that. And as you can tell, I didn't think much of Carter.
Left&Left @ 60:
And JFK, like McCain, was a war hero. Really bad analogy, Left². Unless you might be talking about likely Obama scenarios similar to Bay of Pigs or the Cuban Missile Crisis. Do you even know anything about JFK to make that comparison, besides the Camelot stuff, I mean?
Skilling likely to be released soon (22 years early), or at least get most of the convictions against him overturned.
yet more Bushco and DoJ incompetance or dare we say it helping their friends escape the full force of the law.
Bush LOWERED taxes while the economy was in "downturn" too, how that's working for us doofus, so I don't get your point. Obama's not self-entitled, the people spoke, and you lost. Like Hillary, you can purposely misquote Obama to your heart's content Dennis. It didn't get Hillary anywhere and it certainly won't help you.
dennis @ 75:
Getting shot down and becoming a pow does not make one a war hero. The only war hero's that I knew are white grave stone markers.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 53:
Yeah, and dying too.
Left&Left @ 77:
he only lowered taxes for the wealthy.
Speaking of George, does he have any kids his own age who will still play with him? His roundtable was the ultimate fuddiedud-fest.
Carly Fiorina as McCain's "surrogate" makes it sound like she's going to be impregnated with he and Cindy's child. But hey, if Amerrka learns a new word today, then by all means use surrogate.
dennis @ 75:
Wrong Historian...JFK was a TRUE war hero who saved his comrades on that small boat in WWII. McCrazy was a bad pilot who got his sorry ass shot down, summarily tortured, then ratted out his troops and America. It's your analogy that sucks.
dennis @ 68:
so you hate Obama. we get that.
next!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F_Kennedy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
You just can't compare the two. You just can't do it.
who the f*** is she. lets see become executive mostly on her husband's connections. almost ruined hp now whoring for second career.
McCrazy is just following the bush model, find someone dumber then you, and then hire them.
Left&Left @ 83:
Also Dennis, I know that a crazy, disenchanted, anarchist, loser(like you) helped assassinate him.
[Can you make a point without insulting someone? Site Monitor]
An absolutely misguided pick by McCain to speak about economic issues. If this is the kind of person he's going to have in his corner, it should give pro-business Republicans pause before supporting him. She's a walking, talking gaffe--her record at HP was abysmal.
I'm certainly no McCain supporter, but I've got to wonder what he was thinking in enlisting her support.
john @ 86:
She's another idiot who used a company to promote herself and advance her own personal platform rather then doing what she was hired to do. Manage and oversee a successful company.
Perot said it. If you want to be a Rock Star do that if you want to be a Business Person be a Business Person.
It's people that make companies . not things, material things or executive possessions. It's time to change the focus.
RobertD @ 89:
Maybe he got her name from Rev Hagee.
Wow. $42 billion in the last two years. Would be incredible if it were true. Still, $20B (I'm not one of those people Carly thinks she's bullshitting - I can do the math) would make a barely perceptible dent in the deficit at best. I'd still like to know what McCain thinks are included in the $20B. That would be an interesting discussion topic on George S.'s next show.
She may be looking for a place in the McCain administration. McCain-Fiorina...what a ticket. *packs bags for Canada*
If Carly ends up in an economic cabinet position watch out. This chick doesn't have a clue how to leverage company assets she just cuts and tosses the company furniture on the fire. The company furniture in a McCain administration will be U.S. Assets.
Carly is fairly typical for Silicon Valley types. I have seen a ton of folks like her through my two decades in this business. She exudes confidence and superiority but if you scratch just a wee bit, you will see she is just a fancy talker, not a doer. If she thinks economists are full of it, then join the line, we all do. The problem is that the alternative is guessing, with no way of substantiating the policy. If the conservative party now does not believe economists, can we then stop hearing about Friedman, Laffer and Smith? Voodoo economics, I have heard that one before....
These republican mouthpieces do not even pretend to tell the truth anymore. They just get their word processors out, or move to the camera, and lie through their teeth. It has become epidemic. But, as so many in the blogosphere point out, they just do not get challenged by the MSM. Why not keep lying if no one is calling you on it? I just about puked when she said our new Iraq strategy is working and John deserves the credit for it. She was wrong on both points; one that we are wining and that anyone is even consulting with McCain, let alone making him the new strategic planner. Maybe she thinks the election is over and McCain has been sworn in as the new commander-in-chief? Or, maybe she is stupid, delusional and a liar.
Economy is not science. If it was, there wouldn't be disagreement to the extent that exists within the economic community today, there would not be the 'unforseen' consequences brought by the economic policies by the world bank and IMF.
That wasn't Carly Fiorina... It was Patricia Dunn.
The tech bubble was slowing and HP was stalling in every business. They had no clear direction and was unable to compete with IBM, Sun, novell etc. Then 9/11 happened and IT companies were folding left and right, and HP started acquisitions and spinoffs to position itself to be a more focused competition to IBM.
You may not like Fiorina, but she didn't do a bad job. Share-price is closely tied to the expectations of investors, which in the end of the 90's were high returns in months, and a neverending increase in share prices.
All companies saw their stock prices tumble when the bobble burst. When HP under Fiorina started to grow the company, investing in acquisitions, paying virtually no dividend and selling off assets, investors were forced to either sell or take a long term approach to the HP stock. Most were still in love with the 90's, so they chose to sell it thinking they could do better, sending it into a tailspin.
From 2003 HP was the biggest player in most of the categories they had focused on, so Fiorina obviously did something right. When Fiorina was fired, the repositioning and restructuring of the business was almost complete, so her replacement could then claim the credit for improvements and better dividends, making him the darling of the wall street journal and dismissing Fiorina as a bad CEO.
I am not a fan of Fiorina, but she did most things right. considering that she actually fulfilled the long term plan that she and the board had agreed on in 1999. HP went from about 85.000 to 150.000 employees and from 42 billion to 86 billion in revenues under her leadership.
I think it's ok to critisize her for what she did(replacing jobs in the west with low wage jobs in the east, cutting costs and investing and then downsizing etc), but wildly attacking her just for being a republican is over the edge.
Carly was a lousy executive at AT&T and Lucent Technologies. She helped seal Lucents fate before she went on to ruin HP. Kinda looks like Elizabeth Dole Jr, come to think of it.
Isn't McCain noticing how much it costs to fill up his wife's private plane these days?
Yeah, let’s not talk to the guys with the edumucation. Trust your gut, that’s the Republican way.
set to the side that Clinton got (and flunked) the question first...i dont understand why she thinks that the best way to win the democratic nomination is to act like a GOP, but whateva....
there's really only one link to go to on the topic of the tax 'holiday' and ignoring a unanimous thrall of experts on the subject...
http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=24039
enjoy
Carly said the U.S. is the 2nd highest taxed country (today?) in the world. Were does she get this BS? Can you point to a real published paper by anyone of stature that states this as factual? By most reputable accounts, the US ranks in the top ten in the world, but mostly near the bottom of the big 8. Even "The Economist", a British weekly magazine, considered "conservative" ranks the U.S. about 6th - 8th depending on measurements.
BTW: Quoting Howard Jarvis will not count. He's not an economist or even an unbiased expert. I just want to know where she's getting this big statement.
its funny, as soon as HP gets rid of her they start kicking ass and taking names. And she's supposed to have a clue about anything?
Can we impeach her yet?
Polititians are not economists. Polititians mess with the economy. Up phase, down phase. Recessions are a natural correction, a completion of a cycle.
Polititians try to intervene with nature. Tax increases, tax cuts. Spending increases, subsidies, bailouts, rebates, deficits. All it does is distort economic nature. Eventually it comes back to haunt.
The 2001 recession should have been a serious recession, in order to balance out the serious imbalances created by the 1990's boom. In order to prevent that serious correction, a housing bubble was engineered. The imbalance has grown larger.
The housing bubble must deflate to correct an imbalance. Ms. Bair, head of the FDIC wants the U.S. treasury to bail out home owners facing foreclosure. This however, will create other problems, as Ms. Bair can't have her cake and eat it, too.
But that will not prevent politians from trying. Various bailouts have been proposed by polititians. They are not economists, however.
Wrong Historian…JFK was a TRUE war hero who saved his comrades on that small boat in WWII. McCrazy was a bad pilot who got his sorry ass shot down, summarily tortured, then ratted out his troops and America. It’s your analogy that sucks.
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Ah, the partisan pejoritives. If McCain was a bad pilot who got his plane shot down, that would make JFK a bad skipper who got his boat sunk. such childishness.
Andy @ 97:
One thing you may be missing there, and this is as a customer of HP's, is that under her leadership (and pretty much ever since) the quality of their product has gone to shit.
Woolley @ 95:
First, it depends on whether you are referring to Silicon Valley engineers and entrepreneurs (who made their own way through innovation), or Silicon Valley big-business executives (a bunch of whom obtained their position through connections, not necessarily talent).
As for the economist assessment, economists are not very good at predicting the directions a complex economy will take. But they do tend to understand the basics that are learned in Econ 101. Such as artificially lowered prices will rise back up to meet demand. That is something everyone but the disconnected elite understand through everyday experience.
Rusty Shackleford @ 99:
Nah, he just "borrows" his wife's gas card. ;)
She spies on her own colleagues, to get what she wants.
The "answer" is to privatize everything, with no government regulation. Who needs economists: let greed rule. (Don't worry, it'll "trickle down": like George Bush's piss, onto the drones.)
LOL. That is what pResident Bush also "believes" when he is out in front of the cameras.
Next thing we know, they start telling is that
raising the gas prices will be good for the economy.
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Every boom goes bust, but everyone longs for the Clinton era boom days. So is a boom good for the economy, when it inevitably goes bust?
Hoover gets the bad rap, but Coolidge is remembered fondly. Hoover simply stepped into office when the boom was about to go bust.
Rising gas prices are eventually not good for the economy, but neither is an economic boom. Every up phase has a down phase to balance it out. It is a law of economic nature.
The Kondratieff cycle has 4 phases or seasons. Autumn is disinflation, when borrowing becomes cheap and debt becomes abundant. Winter is when debt defaults and deflation sets in. The 1920's boom was in the autumn phase.
The 1990's boom, stretched into the 2000's because of the housing bubble and federal deficits, was in the autumn phase. Winter follows.
another clear difference, by the way, between President Bush and John McCain, who believes that, to get out of a difficult economic time, we have to practice fiscal restraint. We have to grow our economy. And we also have to find ways to reduce the increase in discretionary spending.
LOL. That is what pResident Bush also “believes” when he is out in front of the cameras.
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The economy needs a serious recession, as things are way out of balance. No polititian is going to propose one.
As the polititians and Central Bank have not allowed one, economic nature is gong to force on on us, one way or another. It won't be pretty.
I used to work for HP and Carly. I kept my job longer than she did. This is the same dueschbag that used to brag that her family was friends with Ken Starr, the maggot prosecutor that investigated the Clinton's Christmas card list.
Ron.j @ 111:
A recession is just a fancy name for a massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. We live in a time when too much wealth is concentrated at the top already. This is going to tip us into another Great Depression. This one will be worse than the last one.
hm, stephanopoulos and fiorina. yup, i'll surely be taking my cues off of those two winners.
What is it with the McCain campaign and American families "sitting around the kitchen table"?
Don't Americans use any other rooms in the house?I know as a kid I used to spend a lot of time in the bathroom because it's the only place I could escape from my siblings and parents.
I literally hate every thing this woman stands for. I was a 1st hand victim of her destruction of a one time paragon of American tech companies. Sadly, not HP ... no that was her 2nd hack job. This woman took Lucent at a time when it was a darling of wallstreet and systematically dismantled the engineering departments while outsourcing the manufacture and professional services in order to cut cost to raise margins. TO AWARD SPECULATORS SHE DESTROYS LIVES!!!! Lucent laid off tens of thousands of people (just like me) analysts, programmers, hardware engineers in the US and hired cheap H1B labor or off-shored the work directly. This sort of greed is what makes me despise Republicans.
The average family sitting around the kitchen table worrying about the things Carly was talking about is not hoping for an 18cent gas tax holiday that will save them $30 over the course of the summer. Hmm..am I going to be able to a) send my kid to college or b) pay an extra 18 cents for gas. Man, i just don't know what I"m going to do....the problems run much deeper than the gas tax Carly and McCan't want to abandon.
Hmmm... she doesn't believe in economists... no wonder!
On 9 February 2005, Carly Fiorina was dismissed as chairman and chief executive officer of HP. She was replaced by Patricia C. Dunn as chairman and CFO Robert Wayman as CEO. Hewlett-Packard's stock jumped 7% on news of her departure.
Under Hewlett-Packard's severance agreement, Carly Fiorina received US $21 million in cash, which was 2.5 times her base annual salary. On March 8, 2006, two large institutional investors filed suit against Hewlett-Packard for violating its own severance cap when it doled out a multimillion-dollar payment to Fiorina as part of her termination agreement
I'm not shocked at all. If McCain is buying into Bush policy of course he will surround himself with incompetence and idiots, having no use for experts who may make him look stupid. After all, it worked out so well for George.
What I don't get is this "campaign surrogate" thing. A surrogate is literally a substitute. So she is a "campaign substitute"? Substitute for what? A real advisor?
Repubspeak is making my head spin. I'm going to give up now and have a drink.
Tekras @ 116:
I am sorry to hear this. Why was this incompetent suit allowed to continue destroying other companies? Does nepotism (family connections in this case) mean that much to boards of directors?
Adam Franklin @ 117:
The worries go much deeper I agree - Carly didn't quite hit it there. At our kitchen table we're making plans to gradually lay in 6 months worth of food. We're a little more worried about that right now than gas, although here in the heartland we're stuck with 11 and 35 mile (one way) commutes from our small town with absolutely no public transportation alternatives.
Call me an alarmist, but I do think things are going to get bad really fast regardless of who wins in November. The slide has already started and there will be no stopping it.
"I literally hate every thing this woman stands for. I was a 1st hand victim of her destruction of a one time paragon of American tech companies."
Yep, me too. I was cut loose when HP acquired Compaq. This was her MO: slash, burn, and destroy good companies. Screw the staff, outsource everything.
Now she's selling John McCain. Well, I'm not buying.
Instead of a short-term gas tax holiday, why don't we try a similar-length short-term holiday from Bush depositing reportedly 70,000 barrels of crude oil each day into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve??? In fact, why not reverse this and release 70,000 barrels of crude oil each day from the SPR onto the world oil markets for several months???
I've read that OPEC won't increase production, pumping up world oil supplies (to help bring down world oil prices), so one thing Bush could immediately do to pump some crude onto the world oil market is what I mentioned above. At the least, he should stop taking 70,000 barrels of crude oil out of the world oil pipeline each day to try to fill up the SPR to its 1 billion barrel capacity by the time he leaves office.
I know Bush and his fat-cat oil pals aren't feeling the gas price crunch and rising food prices, so they really don't give a damn, but I'm hoping that presumptive Democratic Party presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama will latch onto this issue, and call for Bush to stop depositing and start releasing our stockpiled crude oil from our SPR, at least over the upcoming summer months.
This one act on the part of Bush would exert downward pressure on world oil prices and likely drive down the price of gasoline at the pump. And this will only happen if Congress puts pressure on Bush or if the Democratic Party presidential nominee makes an issue of it in their campaign against Bush-clone John McCain.
Whenever I see Cary Fiorina, I always think: Why the long face?
getalife @ 9:
1. Stopping deposits into the SPR might make a slight difference in the price...say, 4 cents or so. Oh boy...I'll save $0.48 filling up my Dodge Neon from an empty tank.
2. Define "short term" and tell us how long it will take to get the oil rigs operational, the oil flowing, and the refineries built and brought online and the gasoline delivered to the stations. Plus, are you so sure that any oil brought up from under American soil will go to American consumers and a lower-than-world-market price? I'll be the one to call BS this time.
3. OPEC is going to tell whoever is the President to go take a hike. Any increases in the amount of oil on the market that makes the price go down is going to hurt their profits, and we just can't have that.
McCrotchety has just found his very own Katherine Harris.
She apparently has the business sense of G.W. Bush.
I'm sure this was answered - haven't read all the comments, but Hillary Clinton said it to George Stephanopolos last week:
STEPHANOPOULOS: But can you name an economist who thinks this makes sense?
CLINTON: Well, I'll tell you what, I'm not going to put my lot in with economists, because I know if we get it right, if we actually did it right, if we had a president who used all the tools of the presidency, we would design it in such a way that it would be implemented effectively.
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=4783456
Fixed.
Non sequitur.
"It does not follow."
Example:
George W. Bush is President...
It DOES NOT FOLLOW that he is a GOOD President.
Why do I mention this?
Because, just because your JOB DESCRIPTION is "economist", it DOES NOT FOLLOW that you are a GOOD economist.
Sure, the economists think the gas tax holiday isn't a good idea, but then again, it was an economist who came up with the idea that our government could BORROW it's way out of DEBT!
A hundred years ago, a single dollar could buy you TWENTY... LOAVES... OF BREAD.
Thanks to the "economists", a dollar now buys ONE... LOAF... OF BREAD.
To all of you who wish to give your trust over to the economists, JUST because of their JOB TITLE, I have one thing to say: there's a SUCKER born every minute... and TWO to take him.
And they can see you coming from miles away.
All of these "economists" wghom you would place your trust in, are neo-liberal, Keynesian, BULLSHIT ARTISTS, inflating our money supply, and making things look good while THEY'RE around, but they do this at the expense of selling your CHILDREN down the river.
Oppose the gas tax holiday, because it is an OBVIOUS and TRANSPARENT ploy to BUY VOTES, but don't make the mistake of opposing the thing because some "economist" says so. They've been leading us down the primrose path for a hundred years now. They've done NOTHING to deserve your respect and admiration.
What the heck does that even mean? Economists say that the US is in a recession, they do not argue it. Only republican tools are discussing the theoretical definition and whether all the symptoms are there. And then Fiorina basically says that the working Americans basically are in a recession.
What a twisted logic she weaves.
By the way, what's her education? She's an MBA from Robert H. Smith School of Business.
Didn't Stephanopoulos' statement establish that economists are not arguing about the gas holiday? Nice logic.
Obamaheads tip more than regular Americans will save on the oil tax holiday. THATS why Obama will lose against McCain. They don't get it.
Please keep in mind that Carly Fiorina almost single handily ruined Hewlett-Packard in the early 2000's before she was unceremoniously thrown out at as CEO. She also left Lucent technologies on bad terms.
Almost akin to a young GW bankrupting oil companies, a baseball team, and now the the free world as we know it.
She is an absolute jackass with no credibility.
P.S....i worked at HP during her demise. Never have a I seen an entire building of engineers hate one person this much (that was not a Star Wars or comic character).
Carly wants to do for America what she did for HP.
She doesn't care about accountants and economists. She knows better than them.
You know it is getting very irritating to hear Carly, McCain and all the rest of the GOP and John's lobbyist surragates use the term, " Families sitting at the table trying to figure out how to pay for gas and make their bills ".
Coming from someone who knows nothing about average families and cared very little who lost their jobs because of her (Carly) the CEO. When she closed Compaq computers, drove HP in the ground and she left with her golden parachute.
I'd rathr have Jon Stewart's Rob Wriggle in charge of my economics than Carly.
RE;
" 133 milton thuroughgood III Says:
She is an absolute jackass with no credibility. "
I say she is a Jackass minus the Jack.
Stupid ass chick who doesn't believe in economists? You mean there's another besides Hillary?
Fiorina ate my soul!!
Isn't this the same kind of anti-intellectual crap we keep getting from the Bush Administration? Military experts don't matter when it comes to Iraq; biologists don't matter when comes to stem cells; economists don't matter when it comes to running the economy.
Is Hillary just "going with her gut"? The bottom line is the gas tax giveaway is just a bribe for voters, and most voters see right through it.
If Democrats nominate someone who thinks she knows better than every expert in the field, they might as well stick with Bush.
An American family who is sitting around the kitchen table wondering how they’re going to pay for groceries, fill their gas tank, whether they’re going to stay in their home, whether or not they can send their kid to college this fall."
Particularly the ones with breadwinners laid off by Carly Fiorina.
So? What does anyone expect from the moron who almost ran HP into the ground?
Fiorina out, HP stock soars
Everyone warned her that the Compaq merger would be a bad idea, but she wanted to bail out a (GOP) friend. What are friends for? :)
Mind you... she is a genius at her personal economics policies, having pocketed about $21million for being the worst CEO HP ever had. She's just really bad at everyone else's economics. LOL
Don't waste your breath on her. She has the business acumen of G. W. Bush.
miss_kitty @ 1:
Surprise indeed! Economists have brought us, The Great Depression, The 2007-2008 mortgage debacle, the rise of Disaster Capitalism (Thanks to the Chicago School and the criminal corporatist class.) and the current disastrous rise in fuel and food prices.
And that is only the tiniest tip of the iceberg of misery, exploitation, subjection and horrors brought on the human race by economists pretending that they are anything but shills for the wealthy and powerful.
After the lawyers it is the economists [Please don not advocate violence on this site-Sitemonitor]
Technically, she's correct: there's positive economics and normative economics. Positive is pure theory, normative applied with one's values as to what the right corrective measures are.
She's an example of failed application of economics.
She's also of the ilk who has probably fired subordinates for far less then she herself made.
Merkin @ 138:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wP_kUzaRlY
I saw this woman interviewed by Judy Woodruff on Bloomberg the other week and had to turn it off. Not only did Woodruff refuse to challenge Fiorina's BS, but the BS was hurting my hair.
What do you mean she was "unsuccessful" at HP? She went to Davos, hung out with Sting and Madonna, wore great clothes, and wore out the corporate jet fleet. Sounds pretty successful to me!
One word: Pendeja!
Poor mcstupid. Doesn't he realize Carly can't do to America what she did to Hewlett-Packard? The bush administration already did that!
Alot of accusations, namecalling and misdirected hatred.
Fiorina was hired to do a job, that job was to position HP to compete with IBM, so that HP's shareholders would ultimately reap great benefits. The plan was a longterm plan of acquisitions and cost cutting, rationalising the business so that it would make more money for it's shareholders in the long term.
She did that.
*She destroyed the HP culture, cut 'secure jobs' etc*. Yes, that's why they hired an outsider. In the interviews around the time she was hired, the managers, board members, etc were talking about the stalling HP culture, about how the were patenting less and less inventions, getting a decreasingly poor ROI on their R&D departments, and they were unsure who would make the needed changes in order to preserve the company.
HP would propably not have existed today had she not been hired. The company was falling further and further behind the big players, and still acting, thinking and spending like they were a big player.
You can continue to repeat that her tenure at HP was a failure, but objectively that was not the case. It's just a 'let's all get together and badmouth her because she doesn't believe what we believe.'. And of course being a woman doesn't make it better. Most liberals would love to see more women in business, but if they are not liberal, they are scolded and called right wing shills.
LOL @ Andy!! You her campaign manager? Or just someone who hopes she'll sling a few bucks his way (or, maybe she already has!)
You perhaps missed this bit in the various press after her firing was announced:
“The stock is up a bit on the fact that nobody liked Carly’s leadership all that much,” said Robert Cihra, an analyst with Fulcrum Global Partners. “The Street had lost all faith in her and the market’s hope is that anyone will be better.”
FYI... It was those shareholders she was suposed to be taking care of that demanded her haid! If she HAD done her job... she'd be still there doing it!
Talk about BS! Strike one. LOL
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