Gen. Taguba on torture: 'there is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes.'
By John Amato Tuesday Jun 17, 2008 4:00pm
When General Taguba talks about this issue will the media listen? Remember when Sy Hersh reported that the General was one of the casualties of the Abu Ghraib?
How Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, became one of its casualties.
When we first started talking about torture on C&L and much of the liberal blogoshere we were called anti-American, traitors, unpatriotic and the like. The White House and their media enablers like the Bill O'Reilly's proclaimed that Abu Ghraib was only a few bad apples. Nothing to see hear so move along little sheep. Well, the evidence is flooding in that refutes this nonsense and now I'd like to ask them something. Who is the traitor to America? Who has been unpatriotic?
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Starr: One thing perhaps worth noting in this report, heidi, is the forward, the preface to the report was written by retired major general Anthony Teguba. He's the army general that led the investigation into the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. in this report the general says, "there is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes."
The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held into account. pretty tough words from a man very well regarded inside the army when he conducted the investigation into Abu Ghraib. For its part, the pentagon continues to say that it deals with detainees in a humane fashion, that there is no policy towards torture, and if there was any misconduct, any abuse, it was in violation of government policy. but this report clearly a pretty damning indictment if it stands on its own.
I'd like all those that went out of their way to attack us to come out and apologize to us, our country, our soldiers and the victims of this abuse known as torture. Barbara Starr gave this report on CNN. There should be numerous investigations for war crimes on Bush Co. and everyone involved. The sooner the better. (rough transcript below the fold)
Evidence of abuse and torture. that is the conclusion of a human rights report on the treatment of u.s.-held terror suspects in iraq and cuba. barbara starr joins us now from washington. how credible is this evidence?
:: well, heidi, this is a group, fizz shunsz for human rights, which conducted medical evaluations on 11 men held at abu ghraib prison in iraq and at the u.s. detention facility in guantanamo bay, cuba. these physicians say they found evidence that these men had been badly mistreated, tore furd, if you will. the report says that there was evidence of "beatings, electrical shock, sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation and sodomy." dr. allen keller was one of the medical evaluators.
:: we found clear physical and psychological evidence that torture and abuse often causing lasting suffering. whether it was scars from beatings or night marries, sexual humiliations that they endured.
:: one thing perhaps worth noting in this report, heidi, is the forward, the preface to the report was written by retired major general anthony teguba. he's the army general that led the investigation into the abu ghraib prison scandal. in this report the general says, "there is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. the only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held into account. pretty tough words from a man very well regarded inside the army when he conducted the investigation into abu ghraib. for its part, the pentagon continues to say that it deals with detainees in a humane fashion, that there is no policy towards torture, and if there was any misconduct, any abuse, it was in violation of government policy. but this report clearly a pretty damning indictment if it stands on its own.
:: will these reports be testimony at some point, hearings on all of this that could be taking place?
:: well, there was just that long set of hearings yesterday on capitol hill that we covered where there were -- the senators were really trying to get to the question of what was the policy, what was allowed, what was not allowed. and a lot of frustration on capitol hill, because now this goes back several years, delving into old documents, who said what in what meeting perhaps many years ago. so far, of course, some low-level soldiers have been prosecuted for their role at abu ghraib, but no senior officer has been held accountable in any of these cases to date. heidi?
:: those proceedings yesterday wrapped up or are you saying that it is possible things could continue?
:: well, i think there's very likely congress will probably try to continue its role in looking into all of this. but at the moment, the pentagon still holds publicly if i were to the notion that there was no policy that condoned torture and abuse, and if it occurred, it was an isolated case by people violating policy. but the bottom line is that, to this day, no senior officer has ever been held accountable in any of these cases. heidi?
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Impeachment still off the table, Nancy?
Call me a fucking traitor.
I say, put Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and many others in the dock, charged with war crimes.
My country means more, infinitely more, to me than these fucks.
They have tarnished my country's image.
Pay attention Peosi and Reid!!! Get off your fat corrupt asses and get the impeachment going. What the hell is wrong with them. Do we need a million man march to their homes? Get busy you crooked pieces of shit!!!
Good one John. thanks.
Does this come to a shock to anyone? Hell No! The Average Joe KNOWS this White House is guilty of crimes. Will these right-wingers ever admit they helped elect one of the most corrupt Administrations I have ever seen in my lifetime? Never! They cling to their Bibles and bury their heads in the sand.
Pelosi must go.
VietVet8666 @ 2:
More than tarnished I'm affraid, they have utterly and completely destroyed it.
The only way to try and turn this around is to put the usual suspects in the Hague.
Though it will never happen, and even if it got close it would be vetoed, scapegoat-ed , buried.
Shock and awe left the room months ago.
I have been advocating for sending the entire Bush misAdministration to the Hague for years, so that they can stand trial for their war crimes.
Starting with an illegal war of agression.
P.D. @ 5:
And support these kinds of war crimes by continually supporting Bush et al, which ironically grows more "terrorists" around the world against the US, because when the water boarding, torture, sodomy, abuse, rape, etc is going on ........ the stars and strips are flying in the background.
I dare say there are immeasurably more terrorists now than there was before 9/11 ...... and the US is much more on it's own, if not completely.
P.D. @ 5:
I share your outrage. I would only edit your comment to say "they cling to their Bibles and say we're right". Their heads are not buried in the sand. They think it's OK and that's the scarier thing.
I hate this fascist criminals and the inept impotent congress.
Exotic Blue Lensman @ 8:
Shame they left the door open for hope and chance .........
waiting for pelosi and reid to do something is a waste of time. they are the recepients of most of my anger. i expected republicans to be greedy, corporate whores. I expected the dems to at least TRY and stop them. they did nothing.
they need to go. i don't know if they need to go to jail yet but they definitely need to be removed from office.
Gen. Taguba is about to receive his "Disgruntled Former Employee" medal.
The Problem:
The next administration will say, the past is past. We must look forward.
Anyone think the next adiministration will do different?
Yes, the Pentagon has really made a name for itself with its 'humane' treatments.
They've conducted some of the most humane beatings-to-death ever recorded.
And when they insert objects up the back passages of schmucks who've been sold to them as 'terrorists', they always lubricate with axle grease.
The great mystery of our time: 'Why do they hate us?'
Not gonna happen. It would require congress to do their jobs.
SODOMY!!!!!!
and still no impeachment.
i hate pelosi!!!
They are talking about it on CNN right now. Wow CNN, now you do you duty and report what we have known all along? Maybe CNN feels the winds are blowing in a new direction. You know, A DEMOCRATIC direction.
What would it take for Ms. Pelosi to hear us? Seriously, what do we have to do... stand on her doorstep (in DC and SF) until she does something? What?
What more do you need to hear, Madam non-Speaker? What more evidence do you need to see or hear? You said Impeachment was off the table, fine, but investigations are not off the table and if those investigations lead, undeniably to impeachment, then so be it!
With all due respect, John we should do the right thing and never expect appologies from those who attack us. Do not look for solace from your detractors. It will never come.
Good thing impeachment is off the table. Yeah, I'm sure glad we didn't waste any time on a quixotic stunt like conducting an investigation of crimes against humanity. Hey, we've got a caucus to build! Enforcing the law might make us unpopular!
Cowards.
VietVet8666 @ 15:
If McCain, then no. If Obama, then you bet. He will have some very aggressive talent on the job.
If Obama fails, we all will be screwed for a very long time.
marko @ 18:
She said "there is a new sheriff in town"...I guess she was not speaking about herself.
marko @ 18:
Maybe Pelosi likes sodomy. She has been doing it to us for a very long time!
VietVet8666 @ 15:
Nope, the power behind the thrown took all the real power a while ago.
The only realistic way I can see it changing is with a huge amount of people getting rather well educated and mobilising against a corrupt and broken system.
Though given the price of gas (and the alternative transport options that have been suppressed) combined with the cuts to education and the mind numbing control of the media and the force feeding of lies and dumbing down crap ........... I don't see much chance at the moment.
I'm a European in Canada at the moment travelling the world, when McPain gets in, I'm moving off this continent to get back to the real world I think.
VietVet8666 @ 15:
i'm not accepting that answer.
The frequency of failure at all levels of government, in so many areas under this Administration just blows my mind. There is no doubt that if the plethora of abuses and negligence where a result of a Democrat or a Democratic administration, there would be a non-stop effort at impeachment. The best we can hope for is that many of the voting blocks that the Repubs used to count on are no longer there anymore. The mindless support of Repubs by military families is certainly stopping for obvious reasons.
Where is Rumsfeld these days? Shouldn't his ass already be in jail?
Rowdy! @ 20:
Pelosi has to be covering up her past. She must have a great deal of complicity in her extraordinary efforts to enable the Bush/Cheney crime spree.
Jerry @ 26:
Can I come visit you . . and stay for 10 or 20 years?
I'm wondering what's going on at CNN This is the 2nd story they've covered wherein they made no attempt to put a propaganda spin and twist on it. They just reported the facts. Amazing.
Have there been discussions at the boardroom level, where maybe it's beginning to dawn on them that they hold a portion of the blame for the war crimes and crimes against humanity that they have helped enable in the last 7'ish years due to their relentless cheerleading and propagandizing? Are they now suddenly trying to reform their image? Or is their editor just having a bad week and forgetting that CNN has an extremely low journalistic standard to live down to?
Call Pelosi and tell her we want impeachment. The articles have already been voted on and are in committee ready for Conyers to act on. If they won't do their patriotic duty vote them out of office.
Jerry @ 26:
I was planning to move to Mexico but you're right, I think Finland or Sweden are looking pretty good.
All the war criminals should be HUNG.
George had nancy over for dinner showed some porn-torture tapes after dinner,recorded nancy's watching and reaction. Bingo, she's now an accessory after the fact. Great another high office held by a criminal.
Man oh man ! Every time you turn on the TV these days it's bad news for the Bush and the repubs. W is in a corner now. Time to change the topics Bush. Now W ! Now !! Shock and awe ! Shock and Awe ! Make the announcement George ! 'The World can not stand by any longer while a nuclear Iran threatens the peace and security of peaceful nations evrywhere.' There's no time George ! Make the announcement ! Go ! Go ! Go !
Underground @ 23
Assuming Obama is elected, what do you think his number 1 objective will be?
pissed off patricia @ 29:
Laughing all the way to the bank ....... and then off to watch some torture tapes and whack off I would of thought .........
I say that a necktie party is in order.
It is an outrage that we the citizens of this country have to wait for a International Tribunal to charge Bush and this Administraion with crimes instead of our own government! If Clinton pulled any of this crap, THE RIGHT WOULD HAVE RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN ON A RAIL! And yet, we are expected to just sit back and wait and ride it out. It is not acceptable!
Call my a cynic but I'll bet this item lasts about 3 days in the news cycle and is then forgotten. Pelosi....you are a joke.
P.D. @ 19:
You are so correct! They want "access", so they suck up to whoever is in power, but they always support the message of their war mongering corporate bosses. I think Obama should shun them and provide access only to the Internet media. Screw the MSM.
Rowdy! @ 20:
Pelosi is going to have to be impeached, simultaneously with Cheney and Bush. Probably Steny Hoyer, too. Then, make Dennis Kucinich Speaker. All sorts of sparks will start flying then.
VietVet8666 @ 38:
To not get assassinated ........ he's got JFK written all over him ........ i.e. a target.
Geraldo @ 34:
Exotic Blue Lensman @ 31:
As long as you have a 2nd citizenships and no accents ;)
For the cool, chilled out and liberal Americans, closest to here I'd think New Zealand is a good place, It's a caring place and awesome people.
The #1 place in the world near constantly just about across the board is Norway.
Asia for me for a while, then on to Eastern Europe or Ireland I think.
Way to go John. Good post.
Impeach Pelosi and Reid.
All the evidence in the world won't trump Pelosi's blockade.
Jerry @ 45:
Jerry,
I think you're correct re JFK, although I'd say RFK. Forty years ago this month.
Taguba for Secretary of Defense. A stand up soldier who cares about the truth and could purge the officer corp of blatant ideolouges and the ignorant good ol' boy network and repair the damage done to our military.
Underground Pirate @ 30:
My idea of a good strategy (which would probably work well since there are so many stupid Americans) :
Start a "Pelosi has been sheltering Bush campaign" We should all post it on blogs, send email to Jack Cafferty The Cafferty File claiming that it's a fact.Take the focus slightly off Bush and we should all talk about Pelosi as if she's a criminal. Huge campaign. That would possibly make her budge since she is NOT a soul-less animal like Bush, Cheney, Rove etc. She's cringe to hear Jack Cafferty read email saying "Nancy Pelosi is complicit in torture."
VietVet8666 @ 38:
First will come team building. He is a natural leader and he is going to need lots of the best help he can get.
I think he will hit the ground running. America is such a mess, he will have to get a lot of balls rolling at the same time.
Iraq, Health Care, Environment, Renewable Energy, and Bush/Cheney prosecutions will be at the top of his list I bet.
If he is not assassinated, he will really do a great job for us.
Unbelievalbe! CNN is doing a story about McCain experiences in Vietnam. Why don't they just air an ad for him. Can they suck up anymore or what!
harley @ 47:
I agree. After Bush/Cheney we impeach Pelosi/Reid. All of them got into office by hook or crook and now it's time to get rid of the four of them.
Impeachment off the table, my ass.
Underground @ 53
Hope you are on target. Thanks.
BennyP @ 48:
..............
I've said this before ; They must be tapping Pelosi's phone calls. They know how to manipulate her. They are always one step (or ten steps ahead of her). That may be the main purpose of their phone tapping ; to listen to phone conversations of Pelosi, Kerry, Obama, Reid, Webb etc. etc.
P.D. @ 54:
They are likely just warming up ...........
VietVet8666 @ 50:
Yup 100% with you on that one.
rain @ 55:
Unfortunately Pelosi/Reid will have to be impeached first.
She (Pelosi) added, "The President isn't worth it, he's not worth impeaching. We've got important work to do."
http://www.populistamerica.com/pelosi_on_the_constitution_its_just_not_w...
Impeachment: It Still Matters
I hope that traitor W. is enjoying this last visit to Europe this week. He'll never be able to go there again as a private citizen without looking over his shoulder for Interpol Agents set on busting his sorry ass for war crimes.
Well now we know why the white house got all excited about gas prices today and got the headlines to be about offshore drilling. They knew this was coming and they wanted to push this story away from the spotlight.
It wasn't that long ago that a reporter mentioned four dollar a gallon gas was coming and bush looked at him as though the reporter was speaking some foreign language before he said, I hadn't heard that. He didn't look too concerned about that possibility then, but today he's ready to drill the hell out of everywhere to bring down the price of gas.
Hey Nancy, is it still not worth impeaching a war criminal?
When was there doubt that this administration had committed war crimes?
john C. @ 42:
No.
I call you an optimist.
Don Rumsfeld hater @ 57:
I'll mention the politically targeted anthrax attacks of a few years ago...
Pelosi has certainly adopted the recent corporate practice of using disposable cell phones for sensitive calls- I find it hard to imagine that politicos would use known tapped lines without thinking.
The man who led the investigation into the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, a soldier of unimpeachable integrity with the rank of major general, states that “there is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes.” Isn't this one of the most dramatic items of American political news ever? Why isn't it screaming at us in gigantic type from the front pages of every newspaper?
But of course we all know the answer. Could there be more definitive proof that the corporate press no longer has the slightest shred of responsibility toward the common good?
I hate being right about bad things. All the things I believed since before this war began have or are being proven true.
Senator, I do not recall that meeting.
Senator, I do not recall seeing that memo.
Senator, I do not recall anything.
you guys apparently haven't seen the NEOCON playbook: we are above the law and so lie/cheat.. there won't be any reprecussions.
pissed off patricia @ 68:
You were not alone. The fact is if the Corporate Media did not exist, if we had a truly free press this would have never happened.
No longer impeachment is enough for these criminals.
If Pelosi doesn't commit to impeachment with all her might, I want to find primary challenger for Pelosi and remove her from Congress. It is ridiculous this farce continues day and day out.
If Bush et al are not held accountable, there will be no reason for anyone to obey any laws, anywhere, anytime. Just claim you did it for a really good reason, or that you just made a mistake, used poor judgment. Whatever. "Well see, I only robbed that bank because my kids were hungry. You don't want children to starve to death, do you?"
Ordinary people (i.e., not dictators) go to prison every day for simple mistakes, using poor judgment, and things done with good intentions.
And as for Pelosi and the other enablers, which is more wrong - committing war crimes, or covering them up?
was there ever any doubt that the current admin is filled with chicken hawk war criminals?
pelosi, it is time to end the 'party before country' BS, start the impeachment process. you are making a mockery of your own legacy if you fail to hold criminal accountable.
pissed off patricia @ 68:
after i witnessed them taking the election of 2000 i knew it was the beginning of the end
If ONLY we could get our elected officials *cough*Reid and *blinkblink* Pelosi to react.
Coop @ 64:
Not by the rest of the world.
One of the main reasons that the American people are constantly sold a bad picture of the UN, because they wouldn't sanction America's war and it's behaviours ...... so spoilt child behaviour later and off they go !
roysf @ 67:
Exactly, which is slightly worse than the origional torture offences.
Moggy @ 61:
Unfortunately as much as I would love to see that happen, I think even once he's left he still gets a body guard team for life ......
VietVet8666 @ 2:
Thanks for your service, brother. I am a Vietnam combat veteran too. Vietnam was 30 years ago, but for me it is still like yesterday. Don't you find it appalling the lessons learned over there, have been largely ignored, or forgotten. The one positive I took from that godforsaken clusterf**k, is that we exposed the futility of getting involved in wars like that. Yet, here we are again, following the same script.
I sense your anger and frustration. It mirrors my own. I just cannot support a policy, which allows these criminals to walk away, as if nothing happened. If this Country is indeed based on the rule of law, then no one is above the law, no one!
But this the begs this question.... http://www.tagg-theangrygayguy.com/2008/06/what-will-we-tell-children.html
It may take some time, but if the USA does not FULLY INVESTIGATE each and every person involved, you're nothing but a Banana Republic. It's going to take a long time for me (and billions of others worldwide) to regain any measure of respect for the USA.
PS Now it is fashionable to blame everything (on the planet) on Bush, and everyone accepts it without question; he's that hated, and untrusted. Hence, so is the USA.
P.D. @ 5:
"and bury their heads in the sand"
I didn't realize they have sand up their asses.
Let's see. The Democrats enjoy a slim majority in the House (233 of 435) and an even slimmer majority in the Senate and that is dependent on the goodwill of Lieberman. So the chance of a successful impeachment is just about zero. The only worse thing than impeaching is attempting to do so and fail. A failure would be seen as a confirmation of all the Bush crimes and misdemeanors that everybody here detests. Pelosi is absolutely right not to proceed with this. You don't fight battles you can't win especially when it will provide lots of ammunition to the Republicans in the forthcoming election. A very smart man once said: "Keep your eyes on the prize".
dosido @ 11:
Its not an inept and impotent Congress.
Its a complicit and collaborating Congress
Bush: "I listen to the Generals."*
*except Anthony Teguba.
Underground Pirate @ 3:
VietVet8666 @ 2:
oldtree @ 4:
My sentiments exactly and worth repeating.
Peter G @ 82:
Wrong.
The only thing worse than impeaching is doing nothing.
Everything is due to fail if you never try.
To Hell with impeachment. We're way past that now.
Unless and until these schmucks are thrown in irons, frog-marched out of the WH, Pentagon and down the Capitol Steps, loaded as freight onto a plane bound for the Hague at RNC/Corporate Criminal Expense to be indicted, tried, convicted and sentenced to death as the war criminals they so clearly are and given the fate they so clearly deserve, there is no justice in this world.
Moreover, the Bush's, Cheney's, Rummy's, Feith's, Wolfie's and Pearls, etc of the world should be stripped of all their worldly goods, property and wealth to the point where their families and survivors are left with just enough money to keep them from receiving any tax breaks or qualifying for any government assistance at any level for the rest of their natural lives.
Lastly, stick the RNC with the tab for the Iraq, Katrina energy policy tab. If anyone, anywhere can show evidence they voted for and supported Democratic Candidates over the past 20 years and/or any election they've been eligible to vote in, they're exempt from any and all expenses generated by the gop's mishandling of anything and everything since Nixon was elected in 1968.
If you don't qualify, do the world a favor and shoot the schmuck residing in your mirror.
What the hell does this mean? Nothing.
They could have video of boosh and cheney decapitating prisoners at gitmo, and there still wouldn't be an impeachment or indictments.
Edwin Hussein @ 80:
Though a lot of the rest of the world feels like that (a history of my posts when I'm pissed off is living proof of that .....) it's not all ............ and while the criticism harsh and judging (and few counties if any have a spotless history) most of them did take down their tyrants and ........ well hung them up again.
The world will be back on side with a USA that does that I believe; I don't think many want the US to fall into any more of a totalitarian state, it's in no ones real interest (past their feelings of anger and frustration) ....... though the people really have to start taking responsibility, own their country, stand up and do something en mass.
Good luck :)
There was never any doubts in the minds of some as to the war crimes question... The only doubt, and it remains a doubt to this day is whether or not those responsible for these atrocities would ever be held accountable and made to pay for these crimes.....
Nancy? Harry? Buehler? Anyone... Is that a cricket I hear chirping???? JD
There really must be justice for this. This cannot stand. It is at odds with everything America is supposed to be, and for the democratic leadership in the congress to sit back and smugly do nothing in the face of these horrific crimes against not only the victims of this administration, but against America itself, is treasonous.
This is intolerable. There must be justice.
Please call or write or email Nancy Pelosi, until she can find no place to hide and is forced to do her duty and impeach the President and the Vice President for their CRIMES against this country.
StirFry @ 88:
Unfortunately that is actually true as they are "enemy combatants".
Is anyone planning any action at Pelosi or Reid's offices? These invertibrates need to be confronted at every opportunity. They are a disgrace to the constitution and the American public!
And the Democrats in congress table and vote for more war in Iraq.
Way to set an agenda. Well done, Im not voting for a war party, sorry, supreme court be damned. Its all bullshit.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Midwest-Flooding-Congress.html
rend @ 94:
More of the same? Insane.
Even if an impeachment was unsuccessful because of margins and what have you, there needs to be a RECORD of it being brought forth.
pete @ 9:
Is Nancy silent because a foreign government we all know is blackmailing Congress over 9/11?
The War Crimes Act of 1996 was passed with overwhelming majorities by the United States Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
The law defines a war crime to include a "grave breach of the Geneva Conventions", specifically noting that "grave breach" should have the meaning defined in any convention (related to the laws of war) to which the U.S. is a party. The definition of "grave breach" in some of the Geneva Conventions have text that extend additional protections, but all the Conventions share the following text in common: "... committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health."
The law applies if either the victim or the perpetrator is a national of the United States or a member of the U.S. armed forces. The penalty may be life imprisonment or death. The death penalty is only invoked if the conduct resulted in the death of one or more victims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996
Peter G @ 82:
What a brilliant person you are!! I agree with you. In fact there should never ever be any charges against anyone for any crime, just in case they lose the case. I agree with you: The Department of Justice is not necessary. What a clever smart person you are.
BennyP @ 86:
your both correct on this one......that's the dilemma
Peter G @ 82:
Not only that, but once they fail to get the 2/3 supermajority in the Senate for conviction, these criminals could not be tried on the same charges ever again. I hate to say it, but I think that Pelosi is being smart here. Can you imagine senate repugnicans crossing the line and voting to put their country ahead of their party? It is not going to happen.
Oh, so now Barbara Starr is reporting on negative stories from the pentagon? A little late, bitch. Thats right, I've watched that mouthpiece for the bush admin speeew her dribble in favor of the pentagon and administration for way too long.
Her and General Grange.
senator says no to impeachment....check it out
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&It...
Bullshit it is a bush policy to torture just as it is a bush policy to declare people enemy combatants just because bush says so.
This is so fucking wrong, why would anyone think that just because bush or chenny or rummy says we are going to do this I don't understand why anyone would do it?
If you are given an order like that don't you automaticly know that you are getting orders from insane people even if he is president don't you know that it is wrong?
Who is the craziest the one that gives the order or the one that carries it out?
My fantasy is that on his first day in office Obama should raid the offices of AIPAC and investigate every single member of treason against the U.S.
Mickxotic @ 101:
Impeachment only applies to removing them from office. They can still be tried for the crimes. I believe I'm correct on this.
Sodomy... torture.... I swear the Congress must get off on these things & that's why they don't think it's an impeachable offense.
As long as there are no blow jobs involved..... ANYTHING is acceptable.
The bar can't get any lower for an American president, can it?
RE # 101 They couldn't be tried in criminal court on the same charges. Hopefully things would get interesting once they leave office as regards criminal charges. That is why I think that the fix on the election is already in be it voting fraud or a timely "terrist" attack. THAT really worries me. These thugs have no intention of stepping down.
According to the articles of impeachment against Bush introduced (unsuccessfully) by Kucinich,
http://kucinich.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=3750
as of July 06, 654,965 Iraqis have been killed . If one extrapolates that and includes Americans killed, over one million people have been killed by Bush.
The irony is that Saddam was hanged for the deaths of only 123 people. That means if Bush is found guilty (duh) and receives the same sentence as Saddam, he should be hanged more than 6000 times.
mystic @ 97:
Jesus Fucking Christ! Just throw anything against the wall and see if it sticks, huh?
Hey, I know, Israel has pictures of Pelosi eating Christian babies, while commiting unspeakable acts of bestiality. Must be true, because it just crossed my mind.
How about this: if the House impeaches, the Senate will NEVER convict, and not because of Harry Reid or any other Democratic Senator. Remember when Pelosi got the bill through the House that mandated timelines in Iraq? And what happened when that bill reached the Senate? The Senate killed it with a cloture vote. If you think a Republican Senator who votes against timetables will vote to convict Stupor Mundi, well.....
But let's say impeachment passes the House, only to become moot after an acquittal. What happens then? Tell me, please.
And yet we do nothing. Sad that we actually have to live up to that "Great Satan" moniker.
mystic @ 99:
Unlike a real trial, there is no screening for partiality in the impeachment process. That makes a vast difference, Darrow.
mystic @ 99:
If you think the Justice Department will investigate and support an impeachment as currently constituted you are perhaps a little optimistic.
Do you all know one of Bush first acts as president was to double his salary. Now then go to your local council meetings, they are all in the act of stealing the people's money. They are borrowing agaisnt our children and the money is going into ghost accounts. White collars will collude with murders as long as they don't actually ever have to work themselves.
Mickxotic @ 109:
I agree with you 100% Why on earth would they NOT avoid investigations and charges of mass murder? Very likely would be a false flag in which Iran is falsely blamed for an attack and either the elections are suspended (just like Musharaff did ) or McCain wins hands down. Remember the Manning report when Bush wanted a false UN flag against Iraq? The Mossad aids and abets.
VietVet8666 @ 15:
The foolish Obama supporters think so, apparently they haven't objectively read his foreign policy though.
Ron @ 107:
You are.
But then it would be awfully hard to select an impartial jury, blind and deaf to the evidence presented by the prosecution in the Senate, after what would assuredly be a vey high profile trial in the Senate.
Ron @ 107:
THANKS,RON! You are right about that, and I stand corrected. Gad! Pelosi and Reid are accessories to the neonazi crimes after all.
Andy K Jong Il @ 111:
Almost all experts seem to agree it's too late for impeachment. It should have been done long ago. Even Richard Clarke says that.
VietVet8666 @ 15:
absolutely not.
I'm pretty sure thats what "Move" on.org and being a "progressive" actually refer to! HA!
...the past is past...dont look back.
A much better strategy would be to win the election with better majorities in both houses and then conduct full in-depth investigations. That should take about three and a half years with a series of damning indictments just in time for the next election cycle. As currently constituted no fair investigation can be conducted. Not until there is a Democrat sitting in the oval office.
CNN does their job for once. Every once and a while they will throw out bones of truth to the peasants.
ya know, in a democracy, these kind of things are frowned upon. i would think someone might, dare i say, lose thier job.
Is it just me, or is it kind of weird that all this shit is coming out just now, when Bush's presidency is becoming increasingly lame duck?
I remember seeing (on C-Span) Teguba testifying about getting booted for carrying out the assignment he was given. He radiated humility and honesty; he spoke plainly. My bullshit detectors detected nothing but truth.
I hope Obama find at least some small role for Teguba in his administration. He (and, I hope, Obama) represent a new way of doing things.
Obamamite @ 124:
Democracy? aha. aha.hahahaha!
Then why aren't these sorry excuses (Cheney$Bush) for human beings being impeached???? Calling them human beings is an insult to the rest of our species. They are a WASTE of human flesh. They probably have videos of it all and jerk off to it on a regular basis. All of Congress should well be prosecuted also for gross criminal negligence for not pursuing impeachment years ago.
I completely agree Mickxotic. I remember a time when McCain was an opponent to Bush's policies, now he has his head so far up Bush's ass you can't tell the two apart...that's political suicide you'd think. Unless the fix is already in and/or another 'terrorist' attack is going to take place. The GOP can no way stay in power given the shit reputation they now have.
Welcome to AmeriKa...Bizarro Land!
pissed off patricia @ 29:
He's busy "shoveling up" (with a back-hoe) all those millions in war profits from his corporate cronies!
Widespread @ 125:
It (must be) just you because Bush has always sucked. and has been torturing people for a while... Abu Graib?
mystic @ 120:
When
shouldcould that have happened earlier? The Republicans controlled the House from '94 until '06, and the Senate from '02 to '06. If you're talking about '07, you're still facing enough Republicans to acquit, because they're the same Republicans who are there now.Jesus, I don't understand how people think that an impeachment without conviction will change anything. Yeah, you might get a swell feeling of righteous vindication(and I get that feeling about twice a week hanging out here, and I'm not spending millions of taxpayer dollars to do so), but what was really accomplished?
Don't take any of my statements to be in support of that fucked up administration in the White House. I've thought since shortly after 9/11 that Bushco should have been out on their asses for the high misdemeanor of dereliction of duty. But I'm a realist. We live in a hyper-partisan nation, where neither side will admit something as obvious as that some their own might be criminals or even, if the other side makes the accusation, that their own moms poop!
Rep. Pelosi, are you sure you want Impeachment off the table? After all, these pukes in power are making a mockery of US, YOU, the Constitution, our way of life, shall I continue? IF THEY COMMITTED CRIMES, THEY NEED TO BE ARRESTED, PROSECUTED AND FOUND INNOCENT OR GUILTY! They acted this way because they knew they'd get away with it.
Congress is responsible for oversight, isn't it?
poor babs. she had such a crush on rummy...
SuperDad @ 1:
She put peaches on the table, what's your problem?
moveon.org should do a piece on this and quote the general that had the nuts to speak up.......these people that are so righteous about everything regarding the war need to hear/listen to this....i'm sorry but they need shoved down their throats
I thought I saw it on the BBC last night :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7462548.stm
Actually we should all applaud BUSHCO for responding accordingly after recognizing that terrorists don't have any respect for the Geneva convention, or weakness in the enemy. Their methods of torture make AbuG look like fratenity hazing. Treating those with respect who are not signators to the Geneva convention and want to kill is futile and stupid during war: we'll always lose the advantage. A great psy-ops that would have stopped the "war" in a day back in 2002-03 would have been to let it out that any enemy captured would be first bathed in pig's blood. We're just tooo nice. That's why, in the short run we'll suffer 5K casualties; in the long run, we'll lose. We need strong leaders if we're to survive the 21st Century and the Dali Obama 'aint it.
Don Rumsfeld hater @ 57:
Here's what I've said before: Someone on the right must have photos of Pelosi and Reid in a three-way with a moose.
I find it ironic that TORTURE has been verified, and yet they still try to put any instances off as "ISOLATED" incindents. WOW! The unevolution of our leaders and our country is an amazing thing to watch......I feel so powerless..........
Isn't Barbara Starr Nancy Pelosi's sister?
They both are covering for the Bush Administration.
VietVet8666 @ 15:
Obama has gone on record saying he will look into evidence of criminality in this administration. Obviously McSame would do nothing, so the choice is clear: elect Obama to clean up this mess. In response to a blogger who called for strong leaders, sorry, but McSame ain't it, and neither was Bush, who let bin Laden slip away, to continue taunting us (and scaring Americans into voting for the GOP, nothing more) while we wasted Clinton's budget surplus and now owe billions to China. Some strength, there!
scruzman @ 136:
i appreciate your opinion but i disagree....i totally understand where your coming from as much as i can but a strong leader george bush is not.....he is a fool. many military leaders disagree with you...many of our enemies dislike us because we do take the high road either bush fell into a trap or he really wants to prolong this war. it's looking like the latter when you consider the pakistan/afghanastan border current status. they want to piss the arabs off and israel is loving it. the consequences are great for acts of war due to the proxy relationships.......negiotiations need to be the primary method,sanctions secondary and force tertiary
this war was in the making for many years....when you look at the history i wouldn't expect these people to fight fair.....to them attacking wasn't fair.
Limp-Dick Blimpaugh @ 35:
I don't know that I'd want women that were hung, but there are some who could be hanged. I will make an exception for Mann Coulter.
Blaming the administration is too broad. All you can do is accuse them of groupthink, not necessarily of a crime, unless of course you can prove conspiracy.
This needs to be narrowed to individuals, that can stand trial, and pay the price.
JerryO @ 127:
You're hugging the tar baby there: stained by what you despise. That is precisely the sort of dehumanizing propaganda which governments have repeatedly used to justify rights abuses.
America would bomb the crap out of any country that would torture people and commit war crimes.
‘there is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes.’
There hasn't been any doubt in my mind since they began the invasion of Iraq as that was an obvious war crime. The "shock and awe" air assault campaign targets civilian infrastructure which is a war crime under American and international law. As far as the torture I've had no doubt they were committing war crimes on that for about 4 years. I never believed that the Abu Ghraib abuse was a few bad apples, the evidence just didn't add up to that.
Limp-Dick Blimpaugh @ 35:
Dennis should get together with Bugliosi and rethink his strategy.
scruzman @ 136:
Come off it, you. BushCo is a terrorist organization. They're not torturing people to get information out of them - they're imparting information to other people, whom they want to control (i.e., setting an example): "Do what we tell you and don't resist our rule, or you could be the next one up for torture."
What is criminal is that a signatory nation to the Geneva Conventions, like the US, should be committing such heinous acts. But you're right about one thing: we do need strong leaders if we're going to regress back to the tactics of the Roman Empire. Now THERE were some ruthless people, and they didn't pretend to be anything but the cruel monsters they were. They were proud of it. BushCo are hypocrites and rank amateurs by comparison - they're so rank, in fact, I can smell them from here.
"fizz shunsz for human rights"
Are you kidding me? When you said "rough transcript," you weren't kidding!
Could we please make that "Physicians for Human Rights" already?
For those who suggest that the nation can't handle the painful truth of accountability, I offer this. War criminals who go unpunished resurface to kill again in future administrations. I offer the specter of Henry Kissinger consulting with George W. Bush as an example.
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