Harper's Magazine: Bush Admin. Worried About Possible Criminal Prosecution
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Jul 15, 2008 8:45am
In a fascinating interview with Scott Horton, investigative journalist Jane Mayer talks about her new book, The Dark Side, which chronicles the Bush administration's dealings with torture, and offers some incredible (and depressing) insight into her superb reporting over the past few years.
The reaction of top Bush Administration officials to the ICRC report, from what I can gather, has been defensive and dismissive. They reject the ICRC’s legal analysis as incorrect. Yet my reporting shows that inside the White House there has been growing fear of criminal prosecution, particularly after the Supreme Court ruled in the Hamdan case that the Geneva Conventions applied to the treatment of the detainees. This nervousness resulted in the successful effort to add retroactive immunity to the Military Commission Act. Cheney personally spearheaded this effort. Fear of the consequences of exposure also weighed heavily in discussions about whether to shut the CIA program down. In White House meetings, Cheney warned that if they transferred the CIA’s prisoners to Guantanamo, “people will want to know where they have been—and what we’ve been doing with them.” Alberto Gonzales, a source said, “scared” everyone about the possibility of war crimes prosecutions. It was on their minds.
I strongly suggest you read the entire interview, but this paragraph really stuck with me:
The sadistic treatment of Abu Zubayda also seems to have affected him psychologically in bizarre ways. Two sources said that he became sexually obsessive, masturbating so much his captors feared he would injure himself. One described him as acting “like a monkey at the zoo.” A physician was called in for consultation—one of many instances in which health professionals have played truly disturbing roles in this program. (I personally feel that the medical and psychological professionals who have used their skills to further a program designed to cause pain and suffering should be a high priority in terms of accountability. It has long been a ghastly aspect of torture, worldwide, that doctors and other medical professionals often assist. The licensing boards and professional societies are worthless, in my view, if they don’t demand serious investigations of such unethical uses of science.)
Mayer also says that although Bush officials feared prosecution and frantically sought protection via legislation like the atrocious Military Commissions Act, lawsuit are not likely because many of those in Congress who would spearhead such legal actions are themselves compromised:
An additional complicating factor is that key members of Congress sanctioned this program, so many of those who might ordinarily be counted on to lead the charge are themselves compromised. [...] My guess is that the real accountability for President Bush will be in the history books, not the court room.
Glenn Greenwald pounces and tears apart the Democrats for their complicity in Bush's torture regime/war crimes.
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Bugliosi's comment....it should apply to every member of congress who agreed on these crimes. DO IT!!!!!!!!!!Start setting this country right.
They SHOULD be worried.
*
Although America is angry with Republicans and Bush Admin, let's not forget Democrats are accomplices...
Voting Democrat Is like choosing the lesser of two evils
My personal opinion: The ONLY way the United States can redeem itself is by putting these war criminals on trial. If we don't do it, screw us.
The administration will get away with the whole business. If anything happens at all it will likely be the scapegoating of a few lower level attorneys such as John Yoo et al. Worst case for the administration : in an extreme case they might be forced to throw Alberto Gonzales to the mob.
Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rummy will be around to assist with future Republiscams.
this could easily explain Pelosi and a bunch of other Democrats, especially if they kept their silence after being told of this. and it would be extremely within the character of the boosh admin to 'compromise' someone they cannot corrupt.
They should be worried because they are guilty.
We have a criminal government. Mafiosi running the executive and their bagmen (and women) running congress.
The heinous Military Commissions act and the equally revolting FISA vamp are only two features of a grisly history.
john @ 3:
As long as we allow this stupid two party system it always has been and always will be. Having briefly experienced the "inside the beltway" mentality I can assure you that it can not be any other way. It's an "us" against everyone outside the beltway mindset.
Three things have to be done to change this.
1. Term Limits
2. Viable alternative parties to challenge the Dems/Repukes
3. Elimination of the "winner takes all" system
these chickenshit chickenhawk dickwhistles deserve to be tarred and feathered and ridden to paraguay on a railroad tie.
No incoming president of any party isa gonna begin the precedent of prosecuting the departing one, no matter their crimes.
they'll walk away clean. Gay-RON-fuukin-TEED chers...the whole corrupt, fascistic crowd of 'em...
If Barry does make it kinto the ShiteHouse, the first thing he needs to do is issue a government-wide edict summarily firing anybody with any degree from Liberty U, Regency U, Hillsdale College, Oral Roberts, Bob Jones, and any and every Xian degree mill...
everything noxin wanted to do, these guys accomplished, except even noxin did not hate this country the way these [*****]s do
woody, tokin librul @ 9:
excellent creativity in the name-calling. and I concur.
not gonna happen. get used to it -- this country no longer abides by the rule of law.
There is no way any political fixes will be enacvted as long as the two parties hold sway, because any attempt to reform the system would automatically reduce their power, and the Iron Law of Institutions dictates that the powerful in any institution will tolerate the diminishment of the power of that institution as long sa it does not effect their power within the institution.
But, were there to be any reforms, the first should be proportional voting, and instant run-offs. The second should be doubling the size of Congress, thereby diluting the power of the entrenched.
But that's pipe-dreams, because nothing is gonna reform the Village System in DC. The only hope we have is to work locally. The problem with that is--apart from the fact that hope sucks--is that there probably isn't enough time to accomplish the needed reforms before the inevitable collapse of the entire system...
john @ 3:
True, look at FISA
Bush wanted, REP supports (to keep us safe) and the DEM cave (p*ssies)
That's how government violates you rights
How could they be tried for war crimes? Who, in the USA, would actually turn these cowardly monsters over to the proper authorities? The ass-hat Dumbocrats can't even compel Dingleberry Doughboy Karl Rove to testify before the congress!
fuck voting.
vote with ur money and buy alotta bullets.
as a lifetime independent voter i can easily say....Of course most of the democrats are just as guilty...1st place to look is to see who voted for FISA...there are very few left in congress who aren't accomplishes in this fiasco...oh yea, and Obama voted for FISA....what a sad day...and now some of you are saying...he will correct this mess once he gets president....do you really believe that? i mean come on, who is he kidding...you are all FOOLS so long as you keep voting for this FAILED 2 party system...as it really is just one party..and we need not look any farther than FISA to prove that....one party voted FOR FISA...
and you all want to keep voting for the democrats? both these parties need a serious cleaning out or a goodbye...
i've never voted for either party in a major election yet was considering a vote for obama this election but his vote on FISA changed my mind...so long as america keeps voting for both these parties...then the problems will only grow LARGER as we have seen in the past decade...
how much more pain do americans need before everyone WAKES up to the mess both parties have created...in part by getting all of you to "believe" in some sort of magical change? ha! you're fooled again...
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 8:
Along those lines, I think that
4. Instant Runoff Voting
Would help with #2 and #3, and
5. Campaign Finance Reform
which publicly finances, and ONLY publicly finances, all elections. The money not
wastedspent on these billion-dollar campaign can go towards paying down the national debt and building hospitalsThank God for people like Jane Mayer who can write and get published such a book! Will this be enough to eventually break open the horror that is the Bush administration and a complicit Congress? Nobody expects the wheels of justice to grind quickly in such grave matters, but keep sending money to the ACLU and other organizations that have no interest in anything but the truth, prosecution and conviction for the perpetrators and their allies, and justice for the victims of torture AND us Americans whose national soul has been besmirched.
We will be whole again if that happens, not before.
And Obama joined the guilty Democratic leadership when he voted for the FISA bill. I was suspicious from the moment it became obvious that Nancy Pelosi was supporting Obama, long before she made it public -- I think he'd made promises to the top Democrats then, though we'll not know what they were. Let's see how he extricates himself from THIS -- he's involved, too, through his support of the FISA fraud. Will he lead a call for justice, or will he remain silent, following them to a dark end?
Dont forget the destruction of possible evidence (videotapes) ...
Bunch of Keyser Söze's, they'll skate for sure...
The only hope that We the People have left to right the wrongs done in our names is for the International Criminal Courts and the United Nations to charge the whole lot of them with war crimes. In a just world that would happen but, unfortunately, we do not live in a just world. Obama will not change that and I truly believe that the downward spiral for this country cannot be changed by anyone until the total collapse.
We have had the most horrifying eight years under the Bush/Cheney regime. They have taken so much power for themselves and the office. Does anyone really believe that Obama will relinquish any of that power? Are we really so naive to think the people will come first because we put a Democrat in that office and that Democrat will have the power or the inclination to fix things? They have all sold their souls to the Corporate Masters a long time ago.
What a coincidence! My blog entry today:
Genocide Charges Against Bashir Should Have Bush Worried. (a look at the list of charges)
This unaccountability of the ones in charge is why revolutions start. They should know better as it has been shown in history time and time again.
I just wonder how many here in the US are ready for a regime change.
It aint over yet kids:
"Court: US Can Jail Civilians Indefinitely
A federal appeals court has ruled President Bush can order the indefinite jailing of civilians imprisoned in the United States. The five-to-four decision effectively reverses last year’s ruling that the administration cannot label US residents “enemy combatants” and jail them indefinitely without charge. The ruling came in the case of the only person still held as an enemy combatant on US soil. Ali al-Marri was arrested six years ago at his home in Peoria, Illinois, where he lived with his wife and five children. He was initially charged with credit card fraud and lying to federal agents. But in June 2003, President Bush declared him an enemy combatant and ordered him into military custody. He has spent the last four years in solitary confinement at a Navy brig in Charleston, South Carolina. Al-Marri’s attorney Jonathan Hafetz said, “This decision means the president can pick up any person in the country—citizen or legal resident—and lock them up for years without the most basic safeguard in the Constitution, the right to a criminal trial.”
In a fascinating interview with Scott Horton, investigative journalist Jane Mayer talks about her new book, The Dark Side...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d78K4rCEfAo
No legislation can protect you from 'villagers with torches and farm instruments'!!
Mickxotic @ 15:
I'll turn them over. Just give me the opportunity.
Toast all their nuts over a roaring fire.
20 earl Says: Dont forget the destruction of possible evidence (videotapes) …
Remember when the only videotapes we had to worry about was Bubba's private stash from the Adam & Eve catalogue?
"(I personally feel that the medical and psychological professionals who have used their skills to further a program designed to cause pain and suffering should be a high priority in terms of accountability.)"
As usual we pick the low hanging fruit. The people who set the program in motion are the most accountable, let's prosecute them.
Let's see if an October surprise doesn't send this down the memory hole.
There's nothing I wouldn't put pass this criminal cabal to hang on to power
and scare the sheep.
earl @ 24
That's going to make the revolution by the people a little tricky then. What with all the new detention facilities around the country and Black Water and all other mercenary groups now working for our government. Think Obama will change all that? Nah, me either. Besides, we Americans are just too selfish and lazy and have too much stuff to be bothered with something so difficult as saving our country and planet.
The Democrats have been accomplices since day one. It makes you wonder how these blogs like Dkos keep a straight face. Yeah they push for "more better Dems", but at every turn the current Dems stick it to Americans.
john @ 3:
That is exactly what it is, to varying degrees. I highly recommend reading History of Ashes, the story of the CIA. All of this has gone on before, just after WWII when the Cold War started, outsourcing torture, you name it.
Right now I can't see a Democrat standing up for anything based on their behavior the past years, but who knows once a Dem is POTUS and Congress turns even more Dem.
i think that's bs. rich people pay their way out of everything. EVERYTHING.
One more piece of the puzzle:
There were TWO FISA bills at one time, the one from the Intelligence Committee that included immunity, and the other from the Judiciary Committee that did not:
http://www.cdt.org/security/20071204_FISA_insider_guide.pdf
We can certainly understand now why the Intelligence Committe version made it to the floor and was voted into law, can't we?
This is horrible. No wonder nothing is moving forward including impeachment. Pelosi is scared to death. She needs to go. I said very little about her previously but after reading these articles it has become clear to me that she is complicit in committing crimes.
Nothing's going to happen. Prosecuting Bush and his accomplices for their crimes would require a special prosecutor and a populace that actually gives a shit. For all that Commander Clueless has a 23% approval rating, there's still a surprising amount of apathy, helped along by a media that isn't even reporting Kucinich's articles of impeachment.
Having a body like the Hague put the ol' Decider on trial means we'd have to extradite him. And you can bet that suddenly, we'll be emphasizing our sovereignity and right to deal with these criminals ourselves. Then turn over and go back to sleep.
linda @ 12:
They're going to skate, for sure. The only thing that will 'bring the evil do-ers to justice' is public action, and the right and left hate each other so much in this country that they'll never work together to bring down the government.
Hmmm... I wonder if that's an accident...? Now we hate each other as much as we hate them, effectively paralyzing the opposition.
.....Four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.....
And then as soon as Nancy Pelosi was sworn in as Speaker of the House, she took a trip to Syria. What was THAT really all about?
earl @ 24:
And you are DE-PHUQING-Lusional if you think any subsequent president, Obama or MCCaint, will voluntarily walk away from that power.
Obama will use it just as radically as McCaint or the Busheviks, even. No president has EVER ceded back to the People any power they have seized in a crisis--except Washington...and neither of these corrupt, corpoRat ass-clowns is within a thousand parsecs of being a "washington."
Reading these posts is really bumming me out. It is obvious that the majority of democrats are aiding in the entire fiasco. How else could one explain the fact that they refuse to impeach/imprison all the crooked f**ks that make up the Bush administration. Their inaction clearly shows that they fear that any thorough investigation of the crimes committed would show that they have been enablers of these crimes.
Being Canadian, I can't pretend to understand your political system but my guess is that you can only vote for either the Republican, Democrat or Independent of your choice that has already been predetermined for you by each party via some sort of nomination process run by selected individuals. The only way the US political system could be improved quickly would be if you could vote first to select a member to run for each party in each state and then select the party. Because as it is, it seems that you really are only voting for the lesser of 2 evils now.
At least if there was a clear landslide for the democrats in the next election this could signal that the American public is at least sick of the crooked bastards that are now running the country and possibly compel the next government to start cleaning up its act. I can't see this happening though as greed is likely much more rewarding than integrity. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Man, that is a depressing thought.
How many times have we heard Republicans, when introducing a new Draconian Law, say things like "if you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to fear from this law" ??
That's what they tell us The Citizens, but when it comes to THEM, well they need to place laws to protect our troops from International Courts.
My ass, they are afraid of being held accountable. The "troops" have done their job excellently, but the Leadership has been an abysmal failure.
We probably wont see any justice in this as she notes, because so many on both sides of the Isle are complicit. But we should make the pursuit even if their is no finality to it.
People like Cheney and his lot should be concerned, very concerned. I wont be surprised if they are never able to leave the shored of the US again. The best WE can do, is keep these stories in the forefront, don't let them die.
Thank you C&L for putting this up, since most of us don't get Harpers.
@ 43: Bangkok Bob: the interview is up on Horton's harper's blog: No Comment
DBoucher @ 42:
Yes, VERY depressing.
The only reason not to prosecute Bush, Cheney et al. is national pride. By any legal standard they have committed identifiable crimes. Bush admitted doing so to Scott McClellan on Air Force One. Cheney's reply was, "So?"
It's a matter of national hubris, and nothing more. Like a corporation that is "too big to fail," the Bush administration feels it's "too powerful to be called to account." A few short years ago Bush said, "We don't torture." When that was proved false he retreated to an arrogant posture of acting as if it didn't matter.
It does matter. The question is, "Do we have the humility as a nation to say so?"
One thing I think interesting is how hostile Mad Magazine has been to boosh for several years.
They're headquartered in New York, and probably know people killed during 9-11.
And often their "jokes" on boosh are far too pointed to just laugh off.
woody, tokin librul @ 44:
Thanks Woody, yes, I had been there and read it. I had gone to the Magazine itself to see the article after C&L made me notice it existed.
Site monitor, delete most of this thread. The republicans commit the crimes and everyone turns around and attacks the democrats. Up is down, black is white. WTF?
What bothers me (not the most, but very deeply) about all of this is that the torture techniques employed by this administration were copied from the Communists methods for forcing people to sign FALSE CONFESSIONS!
Is this incompetence or sadistic cruelty?
What possible point does any of this have if the stated goal (detering terrorism by gathering intelligence) is already known to be unachievable due to the process?
Interesting development on Monday. The prosecutor at the ICC at the Hague issued a request for international arrest warrant for the president of Somalia, for war crimes, geneocide and crimes against humanity. Like the US, Somalia does not recognize the ICC. Like Miloscevic, they do not recognize their authority.
The war criminals in Bush's regime do not recognize the ICC, but it won't do them any good if international arrest warrants eventually get issued. Even if nothing happens in the US because the parties that should have been preventing such things were instead participating in them, the international community may still exercise its prerogative to subject the criminals to justice.
Bush and his cronies may think that they can go to ground in Dubai or Paraguay, but they should keep in mind the example of Adolph Eichmann.
I, too, am of the mind that some of the most heinous of the criminals are the physicians, psychologists and psychiatrist who have lent their energies to these evil works.
.....Pelosi is scared to death. She needs to go.....
Maybe it's love and she's not thinking straight.
Ron @ 49
If you really can't see that the Democrats have been complicit in this then you are delusional or you haven't studied the issues. The republicans could nevery have achieved this level of power and done these things that devalue or constitution and our country without Democrats being either complicit, silent while it happened or both. There are very few real Democrats with integrity left in Washington and it's looking like Obama isn't one of them with his vote for FISA after telling us he would filibuster any vote that gave immunity. Democrats are not required to be sheep for the party.
And as members of the human race we must demand their prosecution.
It is way past time for Americans to put their house in order.
1.) All Bush Administration officials should be arrested, investigated, and put on trial for War Crimes, Crimes against the Constitution, War profiteering, and general douchebaggery. If found guilty, they should be hung from the neck until dead, in public, on the Washington Mall as a lesson to all future fascists.
2.) All those who ordered and participated in torture should themselves be publicly waterboarded everyday for the next six months on the Washington Mall.
3.) CEO's (telecoms, Blackwater, et al) who have been complicit in these crimes should be imprisoned and their family fortunes forfieted to charitable groups or to the US Treasury to recoup our enormous losses.
4.) Any fucking democrats (Pelosi, et al) who have aided and abbetted this nightmare should be impeached and imprisoned as well.
All of the aforementioned are traitors and are extremely dangerous. They should be dealt with the same way the criminals at Nuremburg were dealt with. With extreme predjudice.
Wake the fuck up America!!!
55 bushcriminalscumbag Says: It is way past time for Americans to put their house in order.
Here in Texas their used to be a topless housecleaning company.
Bluesage @ 53:
I strongly agree. Discounting the crimes of members of Congress because they are suppossedly liberal is a big mistake. In fact complicity in this particular crime negates and removes the concept and label of "Liberal" from their very souls.
Bluesage @ 53:
Possibly, but the blog is about who commited the crimes. We don't know who might have known about what, but we do know that the republicans committed crimes.
52 Centrocitta Says: …..Pelosi is scared to death. She needs to go…..
Maybe it’s love and she’s not thinking straight.
Queen Nancy's a lesbo?
A quote from that two-faced scum Conyers:
Oh really? If you have a long list of people eligible for impeachment, then why are you sitting there with your head stuffed up your ass rather than fulfilling your Constitutional duties? Even worse, why are you actively obstructing those who are trying to do their duty?
The answer, as nicely pointed out by Greenwald, is that many top democrats are complicit in the illegal conduct and have a major conflict of interest in supporting impeachment. These turds need to be removed along with Bush.
It's time to purge congress. (D) or (R) makes little difference anymore. They are all crooks and a threat to civil rights and the rule of law.
bushcriminalscumbag @ 55:
You are obviously joking.
You don't punish war criminals by commiting crimes against them.
Read Glenn Greenwald's article at Common Dreams.
No need to fool with Salon's "site pass".
Common Dreams: Glenn Greenwald - The Motivation for Blocking Investigations Into Bush Lawbreaking
Greenwald goes on to name the compromised members of Congress (at least some of them) and tells how they are compromised.
Chilling.
All these CongressPeople evidently believed the "official" version of the 9-11 attacks and were then complicit in the ensuing hysteria and sacrifice of bedrock values that date back to the Magna Carta.
Fools.
Dangerous fools.
john @ 3:
Yeah i'm upset about FISA
But Between McCain (who stance is in rotate) and Obama
Im for Obama
"Between a rock and a hard place"
The thing that kills me the most about the Democrats complicity in all this was their motivation: To Keep Their Jobs!
There was an excellent interview with Jane Mayer yesterday on Fresh Air. It was eye opening.
Deport John Yoo. He's a Naturalized traitor. Being naturalized might apply to Gonzales as well. Deport him too.
xoites
But isn't that the most important thing for most of them - just keep their jobs, their perks and their gravy train? Public servants my ass - we now have public parasites.
Not to worry, Bush, Cheney and the rest of the Gang will look good in ORANGE
.....“Nancy Pelosi has impeachment ‘off the table,’ but that’s off her table, it is not off John Conyers’ table,” the Michigan Democrat said during a town hall meeting in his district Aug. 28. “Nancy Pelosi, who I actually supported, cannot prevent me from introducing an impeachment resolution against, well I’ve got a long list of people who are eligible.”.....
Sounds like the love bug hasn't hit Conyers.
xoites defends Constitution @ 50:
If you've committed a crime and can get someone else to confess, you go free, right?
The Bush administration is simply covering their ass for their complicity in 9-11.
Bluesage @ 67:
Apparently it is more important than anything.
"My guess is that the real accountability for President Bush will be in the history books, not the court room."
NO FUCKING WAY can I stand to believe this is all that will happen to these evil bastards.
It would be really nice if a foreign power under orders from The Hague would track these beasts down after January and bring them to justice in orange jumpers and heavy chains.
Carol @ 68:
Agent?
Another thread about Bush's terrible crimes and another chorus of cynics excusing the whitehouse becasue they know nothin' gonna happen. It's a fine line between a cynic and closet republican these days. I've got to stop reading these depressing threads.
MountainMan23 @ 70:
Covering their asses two ways:
1) Shifting the blame to someone else.
2) Scrambling the minds of those who actually were involved in 9-11 so that their knowledge of Bush administration complicity never surfaces.
xoites defends Constitution @ 64:
Like many under worked 'guvment employees; "Your job is to keep your job."
xoites defends Constitution @ 61:
Take away the hangings and I think we have that party planned out just fine.
xoites defends Constitution @ 50:
maybe neither, or--more likely--a combination of both to achieve the third: rationale.
false confessions fit nicely into the cheney-world-view. they help with the fear mongering and to 'show' faux-efficacy of using torture as a means to elicit information.
and, not to mention, the admin's strategy and tactics are, by design (imho), enacted to create more terrorism, not reduce it.
what 'terrorism' allows for in the neoliberal world is too precious to get rid of. it helps us prop up dictators, reduce freedom, resource-grab, etc.
Before Bush came to power it was unimaginable that a President of the United States of America would ever be considered a war criminal or connected to the torture of prisoners who had not received any form of trial.
Bush has brought shame on a fine country.
I've been saying for years that the Military Commissions Act was nothing less than a Conspiricy to Obstruct Justice through Legislation.
All those who voted for this travesty of Justice are Criminals; that is why Pelosi refuses to Impeach. Many Top long time Republicans are now retiring from Congress. They are taking their pensions before they can be prosecuted and lose them.