McCain lied about being in the cone of silence at Warren's Forum... And where is Rick Warren's outrage?
By John Amato Sunday Aug 17, 2008 3:45pm
Check out our video for the proof. John McCain had a chance to say on TV that he wasn't in the "cone of silence" when he came out and started his interview with Rick Warren.
Warren says he's going to ask identical questions and has placed McCain in a cone of silence. McCain's response was:
McCain: I was trying to hear through the wall."
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Silent Patriot)
He was not in the cone of silence.
Senator John McCain was not in a "cone of silence" on Saturday night while his rival, Senator Barack Obama, was being interviewed at the Saddleback Church in California.
Members of the McCain campaign staff, who flew here Sunday from California, said Mr. McCain was in his motorcade on the way to the church as Mr. Obama was being interviewed by the Rev. Rick Warren, the author of the best-selling book "The Purpose Driven Life."
McCain was supposed to not be able to hear any of the questions before he went on or it would have given him an unfair advantage and a way to mold his answers. Driving in a car is a lame excuse to say he couldn't hear any of the questions. We get all sorts of information these days in numerous ways. And why was McCain even late for the event? It was promoted like crazy.
Mr. Warren started by asking Mr. McCain, "Now, my first question: Was the cone of silence comfortable that you were in just now?"
Mr. McCain deadpanned, "I was trying to hear through the wall."
Interviewed Sunday on CNN, Mr. Warren seemed surprised to learn that Mr. McCain was not in the building during the Obama interview.
Andrea Mitchell said on Meet the Press that:
The Obama people must feel that he didn't do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context, because that--what they're putting out privately is that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama.
And Rick Warren was told about it by CNN's Rick Sanchez. Warren responds:
Warren: Well, that's true. He was in a cone of a secret service motorcade.
Sanchez called the McCain camp and said that he would have to go on the honor system. Yea, right. If John McCain can lie about his whereabouts during an evangelical presidential forum on TV, what does that tell you about his honesty and morals? And why isn't Warren outraged by this breach of trust by John McCain? If Obama had not been in the cone the media would be in an uproar about it. Drudge would have had a huge headline on it and he would have been hounded. Well, you know the rest. Please email and call Rick Warren and ask him why he let John McCain lie about not being there on time or in the "cone of silence." He should have been excluded from the forum completely.
Here's his website. Rick Warren.
Here's some contact information for Saddleback below the fold:
Corona
Citrus Hills Intermediate
3211 South Main Street Corona, CA
Phone:
(951) 239-6633
E-mail:
corona@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
Irvine
4782 Karen Ann Lane
Irvine, CA, 92604
Phone:
(949) 235-4979
E-mail:
irvine@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
Lake Forest (Main Campus)
1 Saddleback Pkwy
Lake Forest, CA 92630
Phone:
(949) 609-8000
E-mail:
info@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
San Clemente
700 Avenida Pico
San Clemente, CA 92673
Phone:
(951) 239-6633
E-mail:
sanclemente@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
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What?
You thought they would play fair?
Come on.
Which of the below quotes doesn’t fit in?
1. “The buck stops here.”
2. *We have nothing to fear but fear itself.”
3. “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.”
4. “That’s above my pay grade.”
Geez.
Who's lying? McCain or Warren?
Why would Warren be outraged? He obviously knew exactly what was going on, as did McCain. This is just another example of the right-wing message machine at work. And why is anyone surprised that an evangelical would prevaricate? They've been doing it since the first one took to the airwaves. As I've said before, the right-wing isn't interested in the truth, only in getting their message out there.
Why did Campaign Head Davis send a letter to NBC complaining about bias?All Andrea Mitchell did was report what the Obama campaign thought about the late arrival of Mccain and the comment by Warren that McCain was in the "cone of silence" while he was actually still at the hotel. The letter seems to have been pre-planned and as soon as any mention of Mccains late arrival was made the very long and strongly worded letter was sent immediately and a meeting set up with NBC officials to discuss it. How is someone a 1/2 hour late to such a huge event as this? He should have been there a hour before the event. Has there ever been a general election candidate late for a debate? How would he have ever known Warren was going to ask a specific question about the Supreme Court? The dishonesty from Mccain is staggering. Something is very wrong here.
Rick Sanchez: Investigative journalist!
Mitchell was trying to smear Obama's staff for whining and got it all over her, kinda like a smoking cigar blowing up in your face.
It says quite a lot about Dungeon Master McCain that in a forum rigged in his favor, he has to cheat and lie and rip off a story from The Gulag Archipelago in order to "win" one and impress his media fluffers.
Good example why I stay away from organized religion...
I'm sorry, why are we supposed to be surprised again?
I don't fault Grandpa. He has no chance against Obama on any even playing field.
The Rude Pundit says the first question wasn't quite the same for both candiates.
tjb @ 6:
My thoughts exactly.
This is such a complete non-story and only serves to make NBC. MSNBC. Mrs. Alan Greenspan and Obama look like whiners. Both McCain and Obama knew what kind of questions would be asked and prepared or, in Obama's case, did not prepare. Because Obama came off poorly in this forum as he does in any forum without a teleprompter. he and his supporters want to feign outrage and accuse McCain of cheating? This is ridiculous and will backfire.
I agree with none of McCain's positions on the issues but he has positions and he's not afraid of them. With Obama there seems to not be enough words in the english language for him to get to a position. He is losing ground daily now and he will um, er and ah his way to a loss in November. Thanks a lot DNC for dragging this lightweight over the finish line.
Flame away, I really don't give a crap anymore.
Cone of silence? Who thinks up these ridiculous phrases.
warren's outrage is in his right ass pocket along with some mcKeating money.
you thought it would be fair??
1) he's a rethug
2) he thinks he's entitled to the white house after kissing chimpy's ass
3) He had to hear the questions first so he could plug in the right stump speech can't have Mc grampa simpson going off about wearing onions during the trojan war
4) He may think all those things he plagarizes really happened to him
I think the only cone of silence is between the electorates ears that think this guys great for the country
There's no fraud like a spiritual fraud. They're the epitome of evil and now Rick Warren can number himself among the worst of the worst. Pastor Warren defrauded the public - maybe that's why he sort of chuckled when he assured all of us that McPappy was in a cone of silence? What he really meant was McPappy is a "conehead" instead.
The outing of this psuedo spiritual man (Rick Warren) will be wonderful to see.
"He was in a cone of a secret service motorcade."
Gosh and everyone knows that cars don't have radios.
Bluesage @ 13:
Read the above Ladies and Gentlemen. It is what shiite sounds like when your nose is blocked!
Bluesage,
McCain has flip-flopped more than any candidate in recent memory. To say that he has positions that he "is not afraid of" is to say that chameleons have colors they aren't afraid of.
I don't remember how long ago I first heard McCain tell that cross in the sand story, but at the time something about it rang a bell. Each time I would hear him tell it the same thing would happen. It was like, didn't something like that happen before to someone else. I was so relieved today to finally figure out why it sounded so familiar. I read The Gulag Archipelago a whole bunch of years ago.
(Dear Gods of Spell Check,
Please fix the spell checker here at C&L and I will be forever in your debt)
Fox News Alert @ 11:
Sorry Jon Perr, I didn't see your post.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 14:
The cone of silence was a device used in the original Get Smart series to prevent secret conversations from being overheard by Chaos.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 14:
I believe it was the writers of an old comedy tv series called Get Smart.
take a look on youtube for Mccain on abortion, theres video of him saying he doesn't beleive roe v. wade should be overturned, just another bold face lie he told in that church. Bet the right would love that one.
Jelperman @ 7:
Doesn't it seem that McSame would have someone younger( you know, like in their 60's) around who could tell him about teh google and plaglarism?
Daisy Zimmerly @ 14:
Buck Henry?
Hell, if this story were reversed and Obama had not been in the "cone", it would be a 24/7 news story for three days. It would get more attention than the missing little girl in Orlando and the Olympics combined.
Bluesage,
Now the $64,000 question is, do you remember the $64,000 cheating scandal that resulted in exposing the winners being feed the answers? Same scandal except our government is involved.
I want the League of Women Voters to run any further debates.
beancounter @ 24:
And as in this case, it NEVER worked right.
Why in the hell would Obama agree to debate in a Mega Church in the first place. It makes no sense to me. Do you really think your going to get a fair shake and a fair crowd. This Is Orange County, the most conservation region in the nation. That was huge mistake on Obama's part.....
Johnboy @ 20:
Well, at this forum he stated his positions quite succinctly. I don't agree with them but he didn't stumble his way through his answers and didn't try to talk around the issues. I would also remind you that Obama has flip-flopped quite a few time lately too. Does FISA ring a bell?
Did a quick LEXIS/NEXIS search for McCain's cross-in-the-dirt story. He was telling it in 1999 on the Repub primary trail and even then reporters would describe it as his "well-known" story. Apparently it appears in some ghost-written McCain advice-for-patriotic-kids book as well from about the same time period.
Let's forget the cone of silence. Just look at the transcript. They were NOT asked the "exact same" questions.
Not worth the hyperventilation, folks.
Tcd @ 26:
They never will hear it because they live in a permanent cone of silence...self-imposed!
Bernie Bear @ 20:
I see you are one of those very clever Obama supporters who cannot defend your candidate or his screw-ups so you just get nasty. We call you "new and unimproved" Democrats.
I just don't trust any of those Super-Size Evangelist Church Preachers. These guys are all about Cash-for-Jesus so they can buy more real estate and increase their cash-flow stock of followers. Many of these demagogues use the same manufactured consent practices of the Repub party. Maybe that why many Evangelicals vote Repub since this environment makes Evangelicals a easy mark for Repub spin doctoring.
Obama held his own considering the now exposed hand on the balance scales. Any Liberal/Progressive politician should always walk in these situations with extreme skepticism.
casper46 @ 27:
I'm sure he does, but he also knows that only Democrats (McGovern, Cleland, Kerry, et al) see their war records audited by the media -most of whom are fluffers for the Republitards.
RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND, "Pastor" Rick Warren is on Sean Hannity's program. Sucking up. And he's going on Fake News tonight.
No, he has no dog in this hunt. None. This was totally unbiased. Uh-huh. Yup.
On CNN they were interviewing some young people and the one kid that supported McCain kept going on about how we can't let Eye-Ran get Nuke-You-Ler and I just had to laugh.
Please elect McCain. Canada's dollar is starting to drop again.
Bruce H. @ 32:
I think Obama's only made one mistake in this campaign: believing that he is ready for prime-time.
Another Preacher, Another Liar
William 'The Bloody' Kristol Makes His Fourth Factual Error In His New York Times Column
Today in the New York print edition of the New York Times, columnist Bill Kristol attacks allegations that Sen. John McGrampa (R-AZ) may not have been in the “cone of silence” during Saturday’s Saddleback Civil Forum:
Daisy Zimmerly @ 15:
Cone of silence
Left&Left @ 35:
Oh Jesus - what an ignorant and hateful freak you are. I detest Edwards and what he did to his wife and our primary. Especially the part about tag-teaming with Obama against Hillary in the debates. Edwards should be forever shunned for tampering with our elections. And you, you should learn some manners and stop with the pop psychology - it just makes you look and sound like an idiot. But, more here already know that.
Geraldo @ 42:
Don't worry about our dollar, I worry a lot more about McSame in the White House
Of course the repubs cheated thats all they got , they cheat more than the Chinese .
The respectable and honorable thing he should have done should have been to delay it until McCain arrived and was legitimately placed in the hold of the cone of silence. But I'm sure the media was screaming, "we have paid-for air time by our sponsors!"
So much for fairness in politics. At least in sports, if a player is delayed, the game is delayed.
Personal note: Seeing Warren in this clip sent me to the garbage dump. He's just another full o' shit pastor who eats too much.
someguy @ 19:
Most politician limos have T.Vs, and you can bet 10 Mansion-McGrampa has a large flat screen in his fleet of limos.
tjb @ 30:
An entertainment TV program manipulated content-- to entertain the public. Scandal and costly court investigation.
A politician manipulated perceptions-- to damage ability of public to understand how to judge the presidential candidates. Investigation pending?
Marc @ 6:
WMD? Well, we have to accept the honor system.
Yes Patricia, but you see John is a war hero and a POW so everything he says is as though it came from the bible itself. This man is completely incapable of lying or cheating on his wife...well, scratch the second part but lying just doesn't work for John.
The religious sects in this country are so obviously on the side of the right, so why on earth was a pastor chosen to host this event? And someone thought he would be unbiased because? And his questions to the two candidates were different because? And McCain was late because?
Make no mistake, this whole thing is blowing up in Barack's face. The media is completely onboard this suicide express and you will see this douchebag of all douchebags in the Whitehouse come January 21st. While I disagree with Bluesage that Obama can't handle not having a teleprompter, I think he's playing right into the right's hand. He's slipping and unless he changes tactics and starts hitting John where it hurts this thing is over.
Good Luck America. I may not believe in god, but I pray and hope that this goes out well. If not, I think I'll have to move.
Once a cheater, always a cheater
Upon reading what was offered I initially thought, "What the hell is the problem? McCain was still nonetheless isolated from the goings-on of the Obama interview. Then I played the clip. All I can say is in the era of blackberrys and instant messaging and whatever the hell else "connected people" have available, McCain could have gotten the play by play through one of his surrogates. A surrogate by the who is able to use the "internets" in place of McCain.
beancounter @ 24:
Very fitting because like Maxwell Smart, McCain and Warren outsmarted themselves. I like the phrase--it's fodder for all kinds of comic material now. Just think, every time McCain acts like he hasn't heard the question (a Reagan ploy BTW) to give himself more time to answer, we can say he was in The Cone of Silence again.
Bluesage @ 38:
I see you are clever again in by deducing I am an Obama supporter. Gifted with ESP?
It is your statements that I refer to. Non of which are bare any resemblance facts.
I don't get television feed into my house and as a result have never seen Mr. Warren. Why do all of these fellows insist on looking like the sleaziest of conmen???? Rod Parsley, the little toad Hagee, Swaggart, Bakker, all of them look like exactly what they are, snake oil salesmen. What puzzles me is the vast numbers of stupid people who absolutely put their brains on hold, and flock around these hucksters. They don't think for themselves, they don't even read those bibles they carry around, because if they did, they would see these snakes for what they are.
Warren has said that people are rich because they are blessed. I guess that Jesus just wasn't blessed enough because he was NEVER rich and often told those who were that if they wanted to follow him, they had to give away their riches, because "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven".
The stupid brain dead "christians" follow these serpents to their doom. They lie and cheat and steal but they carry a bible around and they follow these liars around because they tell them what they want to hear. They sit in stupid judgement of all others around them as they commit their sins of greed, and adultery and everything else, because these hucksters promise them forgiveness and salvation for a price.
I'm sick to death of these conmen and their stupid ass followers. There isn't a Christian among the lot of them.
That format was a complete joke. I'm supposed to believe that McC*nt had no idea what the questions were??? That McC*nt's staff wasn't feeding him the questions during Obama's time on stage??? You're telling me McC*nt came in totally cold and cooked up every response right on the spot???
Yeah, right.
You want fair. Have both candidates on the stage at the same time. Then alternate first responses with question. Obama goes first....then McC*nt goes first, etc.
Basically, treat this like a slightly modified debate...which is what it was.
Not that hard to do....you wouldn't think.
That's okay....let him think he got away with one. I can't wait for the 3 live debates in a more formal setting. He's going to look like the McGrampa he is.
Bluesage @ 14:
Happy to flame away, but it's really unnecessary. You've kind of shot your own credibility in the foot. Best of luck to you.
naschkatze Hussein @ 53:
Sanchez rode the coattails of the Reagan-loving Cuban community to get where he is. Last I heard, his own ethnic base may just go Dem now that the Fidel era is seeing its last days. Won't see much of Sanchez in the future... I hope. He's always been one of those stupid "stunt" reporters desparately grasping for attention.
The last time I checked, there was no "religious test" for president. In my opinion, this is another mark against Obama because he didn't refuse to participate. We are allowing the religious right to dictate what is important. Religion is meaningless to a presidential election, or any election for that matter.
We are all losers because the bible thumpers have established a religious test.
It's a waste of time arguing about this and gnashing teeth.
Obama jumped head first into the religious swamp and it hasn't and won't work for him.
Thoughtful answers aren't going to play well to most religious audiences -- they're religious for Gawd's sake! They didn't get where they are through critical thinking.
This year, with all of the things that favor a Democratic candidate, Obama should have chosen to try to win by bringing the country back from the absurd religious morass that exists in politics today. He could have presented himself as a person of integrity with strong moral values, acknowledging (perhaps using Mr. Bush as an example) that espousing religious beliefs is different from being a good person.
Of course, he wouldn't have won among fundamentalists (why would any rational person want to?), but I think he would have done better than he's doing. So far, most of Obama's attempts to the be the religion presidential candidate have backfired. The things he does and says that appeal to the fundamentalists don't help, because they're never enough. Worse, they continue to push this country toward a disastrous mixing of state and religion. His church and pastor were unmitigated disasters. His expanded faith-based programs ought to make believers in separation of church and state sick.
For months, commenters have been writing that they couldn't wait for Obama to crush McCain in head to head debates. He won't. Obama is a great orator. He's lousy with extemporaneous questions and he has yet to excel in any debate or Q&A format. It is pure arrogance to think that just because McCain is a creepy, moronic, dolt he won't beat Obama in debates as they exist in this country.
Obama was wise not to accept McCain's challenge to a gazillion town hall meetings. He wouldn't stand a chance. I watch McCain and it makes me sick that anyone of his obvious limitations would ever be a candidate for major elective office. But look at the president, vice-president, House, and Senate -- all filled with people at least as bad. Not unanimously, but predominantly.
I'm going to vote for Obama, but this is just one more lesser evil election to me. Of course, he's the lesser evil by so much it's hard to describe, but just because John McCain will be a disaster as president doesn't mean the American people won't elect him.
Oh, I almost forgot -- John McCain was a POW and a war hero.
tjb @ 30:
I actually do remember the $64,000 Question scandal. I was pretty young but it was a really big deal. I think trying to make what happened at this ridiculous "faith forum" is a real stretch. I watched it in full, twice. They were both asked basically the same questions and trying to make the argument that McCain listened to the first 30 minutes in his car and adjusted his answers actually makes him seem more competent than he actually is. Obama made a big mistake even agreeing to this forum and must now live with the fact that he did poorly and will probably take a hit for it.
I agree that the League of Women Voters should conduct all debates but they are not because they will not be manipulated into running them for ratings like the media. Nothing in politics is real or has integrity anymore. I see Rick Warren as a Ted Haggard that hasn't been caught yet and we give him this much power and prestige in our politics and our campaigns. Ridiculous and Obama should have shown better judgement.
pissed off patricia @ 22:
McCain has a fellow POW who backs him up on the story, patricia. At least his telling of it as far back as 1971.
Fellow POW: I Remember McCain Telling the "Cross in the Dirt" Story
the presidency is at stake and the mccain camp used the honor system and the are republicans.
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
what a bunch of suckers.
relax people. it's only august. nobody's going to remember this shit come election day. i hope the dems strategy is to wait until oct. then hit mccain hard every fucking day. show that picture of mccain and bush hugging in every campaign commercial. besides anybody that tuned out the olympics or stayed home on sat. nite to watch this really needs to get a life.
Funny, a talk with a (rich) Christian preacher about issues concerning the Christian faith with two rich, elite candidates and poverty is not mentioned. Few here even commented on it in the previous threads about this discussion. How often does the bible mention poverty, relative to abortion and homosexuality? It's amazing how nothing changes, how narrow the political, economic and social conversation is come election season in the US. If religion is discussed of course nothing will be said about economic issues. After all, millionaire pundits are commenting about a talk between millionaire candidates and a millionaire pastor, on stations owned by even richer individuals and groups. Nothing will change until we can widen these discussions beyond the standard. Poverty, social and economic justice, access to healthcare, etc are much more important to the Christian faith than the crap discussed in that "debate". It's sad that we START the religious conversation from the right wing perspective and it seems normal and not worth mentioning.
dennis @ 67:
And if you can't trust Orson Swindle of the McCain campaign, who can you trust?
The joke is, the Cone of Silence didn't f*cking work.
Every time Agent 86 and the Chief used it, they had to yell their heads off to hear each other - so anybody outside the damned thing could hear them. Anyway, the Cone of Silence is a bad metaphor - it was designed to prevent sound and information from getting out, not from letting them in.
Maybe Warren's reference to this silly sitcom gag is a sly Bill Clinton-style lie devised to pretend that McCain didn't get the questions in advance.
If Obama had a little more brains and some actual courage he would have told Warren, McCain and every evangelical in this country that he isn't going to attend their event because in the United States of America NOBODY has to pass a religious test of any kind. He should have told them that if they weren't going to vote for him just because they believe he isn't a christian then they are the one's who need self examination not him.
I am so sick and tired of every politician in this country falling all over themselves trying to prove their more Christian than the other guy/gal. It is not what this country is about, and the first politician that says this and keeps saying it is a politician I will start to trust.
Screw Rick Warren and all the damn fools like him. Screw evangelicals and their pious attitudes. These kind of people who run around wanting government to be a religious movement are the greatest danger to this country.
It isn't cheating if Jesus does it.
I think whether or not Mccain listened in or not is unprovable until someone steps up and rats him out. Actually, he may not have but most certainly his aids did - who of course briefed him on what to say.
What everyone should be screaming about is how the rules of the debate were violated and thus the integrity of the outcome. Warren violated two of his rules, asking the same question to each candidate as well as Mccain being in a "cone of silence". The main media is accepting this as just small glitches which are supposed to be insignificant overall.
Regardless, the religious folks observing the debate already had their minds made up. Their beloved Warren could perform a blasphemy right in front of their eyes and they would redefine it as a saintly act. Thus, there definitely won't be any sort of repercussions from his followers.
I am afraid in a society of free speech one of the things we have learned is there is no accountability for what people say. We can say anything about anybody - "IF" our mistake/lie is found out then we can always retract it and say our sources were flawed. C'est la vie.
In the transcript, Mcwhat'smyname asks if they're going back to the Supreme Court question- - - - BEFORE it had been asked. Couldn't be he heard it on the secret radio inside Maxwell Smart's Cone, could it?
To me the more damning gaffe was when John McCain was asked to define his definition of marriage. McCain said he defined it as being between one man and one woman. Then suddenly, there was this:
McCAIN: "Are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court justices, or should I mention...
WARREN: "We will get to that. Man, you are jumping ahead! You know all of my questions good."
The problem is, the two hadn't yet discussed Supreme Court justices. Go back and listen. For McCain to ask about it, was like him admitting he had been briefed on the Qs in advance.
redcat @ 69:
Not only that, but the point for Obama here wasn't to "win," necessarily. The deck was stacked against him--conservative Christians--as many other people here have posted--aren't going to be outraged by a Republican who cheats. They just want a Republican president, that's all. They don't care how it happens.
For Obama, this was just about outreach. If he can siphon off a few of these people, or if he even appears somewhat sympathetic to their beliefs, he comes out OK. He was never going to catch a break here anyway. Everybody already knew he'd be fed to the lions--it was a foregone conclusion.
The bigger question is this: will McCain lose any points with anybody paying attention for being dishonest? My guess is, no. But it may cause *somebody* in the media to start snooping for other examples of dishonesty or historical inaccuracy on his part--like the cross in the dirt. That may be where the true repercussions lie. Frank Rich's story in the NYT over the weekend--the fact that McCain is actually the candidate no one truly knows--plays into this. You think the reporters on his bus don't recognize they've lost access to him and that he seems confused all the time? All it takes is for one of them to let it slip and the dominoes fall--this could be the first domino, or just a non-event. But it never hurts.
Trawled Allen, never has the truth been stated with such grace and beauty. You are so right on the money. That is the tone that should be taken here on out. And if it is, we win! If not we get our clocks cleaned again. Good work Trawed Allen....
Does anyone really believe McCain's motorcade doesn't have a TV?
Think again!
Always knew McCain is a Liar and a Cheat, but didn't know Preacher Warren is one too
There are perpetuating a second lie now. McCain was NOT in a motorcade the whole time. He was staying only a few minutes from the event. For the majority of the time he was in room (not at the forum site) watching the broadcast. Then he traveled to the auditorium for a few minutes while listening to the broadcast audio. When is the media going to do their job?
At the very least, this exchange is strange:
"warren: DEFINE MARRIAGE. mccain: A UNION -- A UNION BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN, BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT'S MY DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE. ARE WE GOING TO GET BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPREME COURT JUSTICES? warren: WE'LL GET TO THAT. mccain: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. warren: YOU GOT ALL MY QUESTIONS, GOOD. mccain: WHEN WE SPEAK OF THE ISSUES OF THE RIGHTS OF THE UNBORN, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT JUDGES, BUT ANYWAY GO AHEAD. warren: LET ME JUST ASK YOU A QUESTION RELATED TO THAT. WE GOT A BILL RIGHT HERE IN CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION EIGHT..."
All Rick Warren gives the minutest fuck about is where his next dollar is coming from, where the next, poor, desperate delusional dolt is coming from to dump some cash into his Saddleback/Brokeback kitty.
Trawled Alien @ 72:
Yes, this politician would have my vote, too. He/she wouldn't be elected, most likely, but he/she would have my vote.
But, as Woody Allen said, "I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member."
Warren isn't outraged because he knew McCain wasn't there. Am I to believe that the leader of that church and the host of the event didn't know McCain was not there when this thing started? I don't know what McCain was or wasn't doing, but this doesn't pass the smell test where Rick Warren is concerned. There's no worse fraud than a religious fraud and all of these mega-church guys are.
McCain cheat? That's unpossible!
“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.
John McCain, a former prisoner of war, lie?
John McCain, a former prisoner of war, forget?
John McCain, a former prisoner of war, be confused?
John McCain, a former prisoner of war, flipflop?
No way, he's a former prisoner of war!
Carol @ 79:
Then you ain't been paying attention. He's a tv preacher? Are ANY of them honest? The questions he asked, which McStain seemed to handle so easily? Weren't they mainly just variants on GOPhundamentalist boilerplate?
I've been making this comment all week: Any man of religion that is built for enterprise that racks up millions is a con man in the fleecing the flock game. Con men are cynical liars and thieves, just like GOP candidates. This was an ambush, a setup to make a doddering fool look sharp.
I still regret Warren didn't ask them if they believed the Old Testament to be literally true, and if Intelligent Design is a legitimate scientific theory.
Why? Because the wackos that promote ID are still working to get into our classrooms, with the help of Bush appointed Judges (and McCain.....???).
Bluesage @ 65:
And if Obama refused to debate in the reverse lion's den they would have made him out to be a chicken shit coward who could never stand up to the terrorists.......
Cone of silence?
Missed it by that much.
Too bad Warren never asked McCain and Obama if they believed the Old Testament to be literally true, and if Intelligent Design qualifies as a legitimate scientific theory. We'd learn a lot...but, of course, it would really put McCain in particular on the hot seat with Evangelicals...
and in so doing, somewhat balance the abortion question where McCAin could just chuckle....
but I do hope that the DNC will run some Ads, or something, bringing McCAin's answers about "life" and Supreme Court judges to the attention of those low-information pro-Hillary voters.
Does anyone else wonder how they flipped a coin if McCain wasn't there?
Christine @ 76:
Absolutely correct and by far the biggest give-away that he was, at a minimum, fully briefed beforehand. And don't you think the "adoption" question was a set-up as well? My friends, this war-monger is a catastrophe waiting to happen and we had all better do whatever we can to make sure Obama is elected.
Don @ 88:
McStain endorsed ID in the classroom in Arizona in 2005.
princess @ 66:
Yet, when fellow vets came to the defense of Kerry against the disgraceed smear boaters, you vile reich-wing filth dismissed their claims. Once again, princess lives up to her reich-wing hypocrisy.
Anybody out there have any good ideas about what we can do to make the MSM do a better job? Really, the longer we allow them to shirk their responsibilities the more likely it is that we will be led by the most cynical, the most dishonest, the most unethical among us. We have been lied to for so long I think we have gotten numb to what the implications really are. All you have to do is listen to Hannity on the radio for 30 minutes (as I recently forced myself to do) and you hear nothing but a stream of outright lies, falsehoods, "truthiness" designed to rile up the least educated and, ironically, the most deeply wounded of our population. (Same group that Warren and his ilk prey on.) Where is the accountability in the media???
tib @ 89
Well, Obama refused to have town hall meetings when John McCain asked him to and I don't remember anyone calling him chicken shit coward. He's as bad as any republican playing to these religious freaks.
I also believe that both Obama and McCain were privy to the questions ahead of time. When the question of orphans came up, Obama started his answer with "I cheated a little on this question and studied up a bit". Did everyone miss that? This whole thing was a distortion for the media and the religious nuts. They all three played their roles.
Since "The Cone of Silence" is a ficticious item I'm going to have to assume that any attempt to sheild McCain from the questions beforehand was equally fictional.
They could have explained HOW they were REALLY going to keep him from hearing the questions (way back when, game shows like Truth or Consequences had the sound proof booth) But for them to make any kind of reality based claim would have required them to actually produce a sound blocking device-So they made the cutesie "Cone of Silence" claim. If anyone calls them on it, they just say, "hey, of course there is no such thing, lighten up", ignoring that their little "gotcha forum" was a complete sham.
Bluesage @ 97:
The orphan issue comes from the dude's web site. It is one of his big "programs" and was therefore highly likely to be a topic. Just decent research on Warren by the Obama folks.
so rick warren is another lying motherphuKKKer with a religious sherrif's badge.
so rick warren lies.
so do all repugs and their operatives.
so no surprise.
Bluesage @ 97:
Yep. Jesus Christ! Everyone knew what questions were coming. Wedge questions. Abortion & God. Guns. & Gays.
Rusty The One Shackleford @ 70:
Who would you trust in this instance, Rusty? Would you even believe the guard if he verified the story?
Here's a very similar account told by Jeremiah Denton, a former senator and POW held captive by the North Vietnamese:
Bio, Jeremiah A. Denton
Denton also found strength in his fellow captives. The Americans were forbidden to communicate with each other. But that didn't stop them. They communicated in Morse code and other number-based codes they devised and transmitted through blinks, coughs, sneezes, taps on the wall and even sweeps of a broom.
"I experienced what I couldn't imagine human nature was capable of," Denton said. "I witnessed what my comrades could rise to. Self-discipline, compassion, a realization there is a God."
He also experienced periodic compassion from the North Vietnamese. Sometimes the guards would weep as they tortured him.
One experience, he will never forget. Denton kept a cross, fashioned out of broom straws, hidden in a propaganda booklet in his cell. The cross was a gift from another prisoner. When a guard found the cross, he shredded it. Spat on it. Struck Denton in the face. Threw what was left of the cross on the floor and ground his heel into it.
"It was the only thing I owned," Denton said.
Later, when Denton returned to his cell, he began to tear up the propaganda booklet. He felt a lump in the book. He opened it. "Inside there was another cross, made infinitely better than the other one my buddy had made," Denton said.
When the guard tore up the cross, two Vietnamese workers saw what happened and fashioned him a new cross. "They could have been tortured for what they did," Denton said.
This whole thing is ridiculous.
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 95:
and pulls out a very convenient story. no digging required.
In rugby or football, McCain would be one of those nut-grabbing punks at the bottom of a dogpile, wouldn't he?
Here's McCain responding to a question he has never heard before. Not too quick to say the least...
hat tip to "The Jed Report" ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVgT__TZNdQ
sgtmajor @ 96:
Yes.
Buy them...
warren gave mcKeatingFive the questions in advance. period.
what part of this farce is actually credibile outside the fact that Obama submitted himself to this religious litmus test.
dennis @ 102:
I believe it's probably an old anecdote - possibly VERY old - that people who have been held captive use to provide extra emotional impact to their stories. I think McCain is lying when he says it happened. As, probably, is Solzhenitsyn. They're exploiting people's honest religious faith for their own selfish purposes. Which I guess is perfectly acceptable, to some.
Bonkers @ 104:
You know, he's little. At 5'7", i doubt he possesses either the stature or the musculature to play such physical games...
McCain cheated? Who would have thought!
sgtmajor @ 96:
Get George Soros and other lib billionaires to buy it from Murdock and Scaife and the rest of the wingnut billionaires. Unfortunately, the MSM are businesses owned by people and companies with an agenda. The MSM has no obligation to anyone but its owners.
# 96 quit watching and listening. i only watch olbermann, stewart, colbert,and go on the internet. been doing this since the moron became pres. best decision i ever made.
Sarge,
you prob'ly know this, but as the irrepressible AJ Liebling once said: Freedom of the press belongs to them that owns one.
Bluesage @ 97:
They sure as shit did. It was all over the place--I'll give you one "impartial" example: several times, David Brooks and Rich Lowry derided Obama for not participating--and where? On the damned News Hour with Jim Lehrer. You know? PBS? Bastian of "lib'rul media"? Now multiply that by a magnitude of 83 and you've got what was said on right-wing talk radio. Where the hell have you been?
woody, tokin librul @ 109:
5'7" ain't a bad size for a scrum hooker in rugby. A little small for football these days, except at the high school level. I knew a kid who played center/noseguard in HS football who weighed about 125 lbs.. He was a helluva wrestler, so he knew how to use his leverage.
Come on give Homer "John" McSimpson a break, he's not the brightest nut that fell from the tree, but he was a pow. Guess that entitles him.
As an atheist, I have to say that this Rick Warren joker really makes me sick. It's the first time I've ever seen him. Howcome it seems like most of these preachers seem to be fat or overweight? Shouldn't they be living a life of asceticism and austerity?
It also sucks that any candidate for president has to answer to this jerk about personal questions such as faith or lack of thereof.
Rick Warren seems to me to be nothing more than a plump (HOW many chins under that zippy lil beard), smirking, self-satisfied, slightly more sophisticated version of Jim (sans Tammy Faye) Bakker...I'd pay to see him torn to shreds by ravenous muskrats...Specially, I'd love to watch 'em set into that jelly under his chin...
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 95:
250 veterans who served with John Kerry disputed the 13 who came to his defense, Dr. Matt. But even so, John McCain denounced them.
Participating in the same tactics you term as vile filth is the ultimate in hypocrisy.
Corey Carroll @ 117:
Hey Corey, are you related to Corky?
dennis @ 119:
Payback sucks, dunnit brother? ESAD...
It's outrageous to suggest that McCain would have stooped to cheating at a debate.
Who ever heard of a Republican candidate doing that?
WE flipped a coin and WE have safely placed McCain in a 'cone of silence'
Does anyone expect a pastor to tell the truth? The gospel truth? Swearing on a stack of bibles as if they were truth?
dennis, when are you going to serve?
Did anyone notice how Obama patted McCain in the center of his back when they met and shook hands? Remember Bush had the listening device on in debates. I think Obama is a very wise young man. He knows what the deal is.. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, he lies alright. Did you know that he sued his ex wife for a million dollars? He wanted(among other things) the jewelery he bought her.
This guy knows no bottom folks. He's willing to go as low as he needs to go to win this election.
This is just the beginning. It hasn't even started getting ugly yet. But it will. I am concerned for his well being and safety.
I certainly don't trust these lowlifes.
You would think the Wise Reverend would know you have to grow a double beard to hide a triple chin ....
Christine @ 76:
This is a good display of McCain's aging brain in action; asking about getting "back" to something they hadn't yet discussed, except that he had heard it discussed previously (or even if he just knew the question from what Warren had provided both candidates). There is some space/time conceptual slippage going on.
I get it: A McCain staffer was in the audience with his cell phone on Speaker, while McCain and his staff listened on a speakerphone in his limousine and discussed his upcoming answers.
What a sweet and simple scam they arranged with Rick Warren.
Honor system?
Republicans and the honor system?
Shirley you jest!
Was he in the Straight Talk Express? Because that has a big old TV right up front:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0goD2dsfZ6ehm/610x.jpg
Bluesage @ 97:
@ Bluesage
Consider that they had both received the general understanding of the questions in advance from Warren. What the system was supposed to prevent is McCain hearing Obama's ~answers~ in advance.
When Obama said he cheated on that one, he obviously didn't mean it literally, because both had been provided with the question topics in advance, and it would be expected that they would have the chance to prepare and research.
I don't get it ... Obama did NOT do poorly! Oh yeah, that is not a very good storyline.
I absolutely hate the press... Actually not sure which is worse: organized press, or organized press.
ronhohn @ 123:
If he's gotta R next to his name, the God-fearin Warren will turn the other butt cheek like a good xian soldier. Why in the hell would you wanna fuck up the GOP agenda by telling the truth? He's gotta keep that big fat gluttonous belly of his filled.
I'm sure Warren's tasted mcCain's barbecue ribs over some beer served by Cindy in a Hooter's outfit.
McCain lying on camera about having been in the COS ...OK for a former prisoner of war.
McCain cheating by having foreknowledge of Obama's answers ...not something a former prisoner of war would do.
Did anyone think a GOP candidate would choose honour over winning? Does anyone think the GOP are honourable?
Why did Davis send a letter to NBC complaining about bias?All Andrea Mitchell did was report what the Obama campaign thought about the late arrival of Mccain and the comment by Warren that McCain was in the "cone of silence" while he was actually still at the hotel. The letter seems to have been pre-planned and as soon as any mention of Mccains late arrival was made the very long and strongly worded letter was sent immediately and a meeting set up with NBC officials to discuss it. How is someone a 1/2 hour late to such a huge event as this? He should have been there a hour before the event. Has there ever been a general election candidate late for a debate? How would he have ever known Warren was going to ask a specific question about the Supreme Court? The dishonesty from Mccain is staggering.
Warren can' t let this turn into a fraud. Did you see what people paid to see this event in his church? Some as much as $3,000. Imagine what they would feel if they found out the supposed fair debate was one-sided?
The media, if they were doing their job, ought to have McCain on a skewer for this. Lying in a house of God.
someguy @ 19:
Better yet, he was on the phone with someone who was also listening and telling him what the answers were that he should give. Obama should have insisted that McCain go first or failing that that he not go on until McCain was under supervision that included his representatives. He should insist, within private discussions, that McCain be strip searched, xrayed and debugged before every debate (and of course agree to the same).
Go... @ 133:
I thought Obama did well too. (I thought he tried to be a little too thorough and thoughtful in his answers and I thought that was probably a mistake with that crowd -keep it simple) McCain as usual looked liked death warmed over (he was so pale, he was practically transluciant)
Why was McCain conveniently late for this event? He was late to the WH when bush endorsed him too. Remember we had to watch bush dance while they were waiting for McCain to show up? When will everyone defending him remark on his answering questions that hadn't been asked? When will the media and or pundits acknowledge that the McCain staffers are preventing him from talking on the phone because he can't be relied on to stay on message? He is influenced by the last person he talks to. Who will really be running the WH if McCain is elected if he can't be trusted not to change his mind after every phone call? Supposedly he didn't even leave his hotel until after the "debate" started and saying he didn't "hear" anything is a red herring.
This "debate" was fixed just like that "town hall" on faux was. They picked on Obama for not attending and it turned out it was filled with McCain supporters. McCain apparently cheats on everything, not just wives.
Janet @ 141:
Thats why they want him there so badly. They want to try to snooker him.
And yes, They cheat.
But we all know that. At least we should by now.
Mudshark...I know. Just gotta vent once in a while. With xoites being so pissed at the whole thing and refusing to vote for Obama because of FISA I have to vent somewhere, lol.
dennis @ 119:
And we all know that, when it comes to the truth, majority rules.
Good thing Scaife and the other SBVT bankrollers had so much money. Otherwise they might have only been able to afford 12 "veterans" and things would have gone differently.
Maybe Scaife et al. will buy some witnesses to testify that Wet Start Johnny didn't hear the questions ahead of time, too.
i would like to submit that it was known mccain wasn't in the building, because warren said they "flipped a coin" and obama decided to go first. how could there have been a coin toss if mccain was 30 minutes late for the start of the event? obama didn't have any choice but to go first. and yes, he was slower in answering the questions than mccain, but it was because he gave genuine thought to his answers and didn't spout off canned responses or tell war stories. for a guy who "rarely talks of his pow experience" he sure managed to tie it in to nearly all of his answers saturday. it also seemed that warren was kind of coaching mccain, telling him to "slow down" with the hidden message being "hey idiot, you are making it look like you rehearsed your answers...slow down so it looks like you are actually responding to my questions!"
his little story of gen petraus (sp( inspiring all those soldiers to renlist over in iraq b/c their enlistments expired because "they wanted to stay and fight" is complete bs. those soldiers likely did not have a choice. doubtful the army will come to them and say "hey soldier, your enlistment is up. you don't have to be here anymore. you can go home, OR, if you really want, you can reenlist and stay...you know...if you want..."
Janet @ 143:
Yeah, I know. Me Too.
I know how you feel.
Sometimes I think we've crossed into the twilight zone.
Am just watching hardball with Schuster, and watching McCain's answers, the audience's ovation, listening to the republican mouthpiece there.. I just feel so sad for this country. It is going to the shitter. Somebody tell me I'm wrong
Does anyone know where the $500 to $3,000 per seat went? Talk about your "Purpose Driven Life". This Warren guy is a promoter of epic proportions.
What was interesting was what I recall Warren saying at the first
"We flipped a coin and Barak is going first"
now how could they have really done so if McCain wasn't there?
vrunner @ 147:
Yeah. They keep commenting on how concise McCain's answers were. There could be a few reasons for that. He could have violated the C.O.S or his camp could be proving their point about McCain leading with the last thing he hears. If they put this stuff in his head just before he went on that would explain it.
Also has Shuster on and saw that look on McCain's face when he said life begins at conception and that he has always believed that. He looked just like the kid in the school play that got his line right for the first time and got applause.
Mcsame obviously had time to prepare the right answers for these Evangelical freaks, but of course, as with any ignorant, uneducated, whackjobs, ...they bought it.
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