Is The Narrative Shifting for Hillary as VP? He's ready!
By John Amato Wednesday Aug 20, 2008 9:10pm
USA Today reports:
Days, perhaps hours, before an expected announcement of his running mate, Barack Obama offered some clues Tuesday as to what he's looking for, suggesting that his pick might be an independent-minded person with a strong populist streak.
"I won't hand over my energy policy to my vice president without knowing necessarily what he's doing," the presumptive Democratic nominee said.Obama dropped the masculine pronoun several times in an answer to a supporter's question here about his plans for his running mate. It was not clear whether it was a generic "he," or a signal that New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius are no longer under consideration.
With a slew of new polls coming out that have not been good for Obama, I wonder if his camp is rethinking their strategy for selecting a VP?
Check out this CBS/NY Times poll:
Senator Hillary Clinton is by far the favorite choice for the number two spot on the Democratic ticket, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll of delegates to the Democratic convention. When asked who they would like Barack Obama to select, 28 percent volunteer her as their top choice for Vice Presidential nominee.
What's even more fascinating about this poll is that even Obama delegates like Hillary:
Thirty-five percent of Obama's pledged delegates think having Clinton's name on the ticket would help Obama win in November, 23 percent of them say choosing her would hurt.
I've made my thoughts known a while back that I thought she should be the VP.
Hillary can help Obama win Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio. As we saw in the primary, women, elderly, Jewish and Latino voters really liked her as well. The media spotlight will be all his for another long period of time while McCain is left to stir up a little publicity with Bobby "what's evolution?" Jindal or the boring wonder bread that is Romney. Maybe it will give him time to produce another video crying to the media that his VP pick wasn't covered as much as Obama's.
I didn't support any candidate in the primary so I could be much more pragmatic as we moved forward into the general. I think it's a smart choice. Do Biden, Bayh, Kaine or any other pick left standing represent his "change narrative?" No, because Obama is the narrative. He brings the change. He won the primary. Of course there are those that feel much differently. I'm just offering my thoughts. Many of my C&L writers don't agree with me either. The blogosphere should be the place that we discuss these issues. There are so many undecided voters that I bet many of them are Hillary supporters. In my opinion her nomination would send a jolt of electricity throughout the country and into Denver.
From the USA Today article---it doesn't look like it will happen. Huff Po's Roy Sekoff -- a huge Obama supporter -- was on The Verdict last night and echoed my same points. Howie does too. I don't care about the power structure in DC. I want to win the White House. And if Hillary helps Obama--then I'm cool with it. And Obama can handle it too. But, it's his call and we'll all support whoever he chooses. It's his party now...We'll find out soon.
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Bite the bullet and go with HRC.
Biden.
Dennis Kucinich or no one.
Max Cleland...let's see "war hero" McSame compete with Max.
Well, you folks already know how I feel about this topic.
The illusion of McCain getting more popular just re-enforces my position that HRC is the best candidate for the VP slot.
People want change. You can't get more different than an African American and the first woman on a ticket.That's real change.
Not to mention all of her support. I said awhile ago that we need to get past our petty differences. We'll never win this election if we're not unified. It has to be a blow out, a landslide. Because if it's not, they'll steal it.
Go with Hillary. It's the most logical choice. Nuff said, back to my Sam Adam's Lager (is that a bit too elitist??? I also drink Stroh's too, so maybe that balances it out - sorry, John, not trying to start a beer thread but hey, if it happens, it happens hahaha :)
If Obama picks Clinton, he will carry a 15 pt lead all the way to a big fat landslide in November.
seriously @ 6:
Forget Hillary. I say Brian Schweitzer. And I quote a character in a Stephen King novel re beer: "Any beer in the house after 2 a.m. is good beer."
Gen. Wes Clark
I bet my wife $20 I'm going to see "HRC" on my phone (yes, I'm one of those obamatards who signed up for that.)
I agree with Mudshark #5. Let's clean their clocks and start fixing shit.
Wesley Clark
Matt in Texas @ 8:
hahahahahahaha... i laughed out loud at that one.
overall i like hillary........she's far from perfect but on the flip side she is motivated and smart as hell. otherwise
i like powell,clark or biden......let's roll. mccain the elitist
is for corporations and super wealthy. the low and middle class republicans are voting for cultural reasons.....to me
cutting their own throats.
I wrote to the Obama camp today expressing an opinion that Obama choose HRC as the VP choice. Below is the response I got.
Dear Friend,
Thank you for contacting us to share your thoughts on choosing a Vice President. Senator Obama is deeply honored to be the Democratic nominee, and we have noted your input on this important decision.
Both Senator Obama and Senator Clinton agree that Democrats are united as we head into the fall, and we look forward to working with her and all Democrats to ensure that our Party takes back the White House in November.
Sincerely,
Obama for America"
Here's the thing. He needs to WIN. That's it. If he really wants to do that, then pick HRC.
StirFry @ 10:
I agree. Why not? And think of the debates! Wow!
seriously @ 6:
Nah, not Sam Adam's. Now I drink imported Spaten Münchner Hell which is not only elitist but it's socialist too. damn tastey, tho.
I bet you it's Sebelius. The "he" comment was a red herring.
HRC lost the primary for a reason. Primarily because she has no shot at winning the general election due to the fact she will energize the repugs, and turns off a lot of soccer mom and evangelicals.
Yes, we want change, but we are honestly not a country that can handle that much change at once. A women or a black man alone will be a huge shock to our collective system (though a much needed one). With all of the big changes we need to take place in order to even get back to "normal" prior to the Bush fiasco will require change enough. We simply aren't ready for BO and HRC together. Much as I would love the changes they woule implement, I believe that would be handing McPOW the election. The non-attentive majority just can't take that much at once and the Obama camp knows it.
Otay @ 18:
If that is his pick, he will lose. Nothing against Sebelius, mind you.
Otay @ 18:
she would be good also....although she comes with baggage i like clinton but you may be on to something
Liberal AND Proud @ 2:
Biden can and will fight....and he never campaigned for Grandpa.
Wake me when it's over.
mudshark, I completely agree. Obama needs her. There is a tidal wave of support behind both of them. They need to unite their forces and juggernaut the repubs into outer space.
It's the only way the Democratic party can win this.
Not HRC. Way, way too much bad blood from the primary - especially since McCain's attacks are cribbed almost exactly from the ones that the Clinton team used.
Sorry, but anyone who thinks that we can fix anything in Washington this way is seeing the little picture (winning in November) but missing the big picture (how is a President Obama going to manage governing with two powerful Democratic icons right on his heels).
And I know we need to win, but does the phrase "Pyrrhic Victory" mean anything to anyone?
My choice would be Sebelius or Richardson. Choosing another Senator just emphasizes a lack of executive experience - something that McCain will jump all over (never mind that he has zero executive experience, because the MSM won't report it).
HRC would of course be the logical choice, politically speaking, but do we really want a Republican mole as a VP??
StirFry @ 10:
I said four years ago that HRC would be smart to go for the VP slot. That way, we stand a very good chance of keeping the WH for eight more years after Obama.
Barring some kind of massive screw up. The country needs 16 years to fix all the crap the GOP has done. It won't happen in eight years. Yes we will make some progress, but it's going to take more than that.
Food for thought.
Take my word for it, Gen. Wes Clark.
i would go with dick gephart. he's an old school dem with strong ties to labor and by selecting him, the dems don't vacate offices currently held. he also knows the ins and outs of congress.
If Obama is as smart as he says he is then he'll pick a VP who can bring him 18 million voter base. Now Biden nor any other candidate can do that. When you want to win and your dealing with crooks like the GOP the only way to win is with numbers so large cheating wont help. Now Hillary has 18 million voter base that she can bring with her. If Obama risk with so other VP choice it will be the end of the Democrats getting in office this term. McCain and the Republicans would live for Obama to pick anyone but Hillary as it gives them the edge to win the White House. With Hillary as VP, McCain and Cindy might as well go back to one of their homes in Arizona.
In a two week period before the primary in Ohio I went to hear and see, Barack in Columbus, Hillary in Dayton, Bill Clinton, Michelle Obama, and Chelsea in Athens Ohio. At each event the crowd was made up of very diverse crowds. But in Dayton at the Hillary event that I went to with my 81 year old mother (blue collar grew up working in factories). This crowd in Dayton was made up of hard core working class folk. Many older women. As I went around and talked with many of these women and asked "why Hillary". I often heard the response " we have paid our dues, she has paid hers. She is smart and deserves it". I heard similar words over and over again.
These women are Hillary's base and they are not going to let go. They want a woman and they want that woman to be Hillary!
)by the way Chelsea was the most impressive out of the 5. She was articulate, knew the issues and listened to the questions very carefully and repeated the questions almost back verbatim.) After hearing Chelsea I just wished the Clintons had had 10 kids.
My favorite radio host Mike Malloy did a 180 on Obama today.....what a terrible sign.
Bison @ 28:
I so admire Wesley Clark. I would be fine with that
The best defense is a good offense. McCain is scum on many fronts. McCain is running Hillary's campaign. Therefore, Obama will lose if he chooses her. I am not a Hillary supporter, but I am not convinced that Obama really knows what he needs to do. I will not give him another penny (mostly because of FISA). I will vote for him (if he actually gets the nomination). But NOBODY who is underinformed will vote for Republican light. Why, oh why, doesn't the Democratic party realize that an enormous number of voters are too liberal to swallow their stupid, inevitable, move "to the center." That means pandering to the reich wing platform. Fund No Child Left Behind? NO, get rid of it and write a better educational plan. Redeploy troops? NO, redefine what our true defense needs are. Drill everywhere? Fine, drill in one of John McCain's backyards. Drill in midtown Manhattan. Drive the talking points to their extremes and they look ruthless, stupid, and dangerous. Go along to get along and we lose.
Clark or Biden. Whatever it takes to win. Personally, the guy could choose fricken spongebob and I would still vote for him.
McCain is an old sorry loser in poor health with a self-described c#nt as a wife. I would love to see her embrace the homeless of D.C. Yes, Cindy Hensley, I would love to see you grab the most stinky, tattered, decrepit, homeless man or woman off the streets of D.C., embrace them in your Yves Saint Laurent with $500 Italian shoes like your husband wears, and embrace them Cindy with all your heart. Smell the dispair, smell the poverty, and look into their eyes and say that you will change the cause of the homeless in America. Hah! Not possible with the three martini lunch schedule, and don't forget that brazilian wax job. Oh, and that arm still hurts from shaking hands. Sorry. You are such a fragile flower.
Kathleen @ 31:
I know a lot of women who feel the same way. A LOT of Women.
Jacki @ 30:
Where do you get 18 million? How many of these people are really stupid enough to vote against all of their interests by going to the other side? Not that I'm ruling out stupidity, or the chance that many will stay home. Still........that number is seriously inflated.
I hate Biden, but he'd be better than Hillary. Biden is a bastard asshole, but he's our bastard asshole. He's the kind of guy who can kick a Republican in the nuts repeatedly, (something Obama clearly does not have in him.) Hillary is a nightmarish disaster.
Don't be fooled by our monolithic corporate media--they are goading us into thinking we need HRC because they crave the Clinton pyscho-drama. Trust me, they are lying in wait--I would love HRC if she didn't run such a disgusting campaign towards the end when it was clear since February that she had lost-- a direction that, oh by the way, the McCain/Rove camp has utilized.
The other problem is Bill Clinton--he will not be able to blow his nose without the media scrutinizing his motives--it's just not do-able with HRC. Biden will be a strong choice. He has a way of cutting through the BS distractions that McCain has using wall to wall. I think Americans will really connect with him on that level. Also, he was born in Scranton PA which will help seal PA, IMO.
I hope it's Hillary not only because that will make him a shoe-in, I work with a bunch of over compensating wannabemen neo-cons who hold a psychotic obsessive hatred for Hillary and it will be fun to watch these nutcases completely lose it.
how to throw cold water on a good day, John. unfortunate.
I don't care who it is, just whatever it takes to reboot this country.
Of course here in Okieland, we'll go red as always cause dammit, we aint' come from no monkey!
Bison @ 28:
I only wish the Dems had the spine. That would be a great "in your face".
He's far from perfect.
She's far from perfect.
Probably, together they are not any less perfect than individually.
There's something to be said for that.
Possibly I just said it...
JG@39, that is a great point about the way she closed her campaign. I kept thinking how much it was like GWB's inability to accept reality. Doesn't go along with the whole "change" message very well.
Very true, Hilllary ran a disgusting campaign towards the end of the primary, but that's what we need for the rest of this campaign. A little "disgust" might be a nice change of pace for O. He could use it.
Kathleen @ 33:
Biden voted for the Iraq war so he ruins the whole Obama message (change, anti-war), no wonder the media want Biden, it's so crystal clear
Bayn - the same thing
Hillary - a war monger as well
Clark, even though constantly "topping the top 10 charts" hasn't been named once by the MSM, once, on any show, it's been like hearing a broken record, Biden, Bahn, Kaine, Clinton, Biden, Bahn, Kaine, Clinton. Ask yourself why. This painfully obvious repetitive mini-deception of corporate controlled media has looked like a scam from the very beginning. If there are 10 names, why would you hear only 4 or 5 for months now? Now, the question is, does Obama pick the #1 media candidate, if he does, McInsane and the MSM will laugh their asses off up until November.
Biden, Sec State.
Clark, Sec Def.
If Obama wants to commit political suicide and elect John McCain he should choose Hillary as VP.
Never forget Hillary NEEDS Obama to lose so she can run in 2012. And also dont forget that Hillary as VP would be co-President in all but name only.
I think it is Wes Clark...remember what he said "NO drama"...that means NO Bubba, NO HRC.....but wes would make her camp happy too...and he could definently take on McMansion.....
Chris from Maine @ 49:
Bullshit.
mudshark @ 36:
It makes a LOT of sense. Women got the vote in '20, but only slowly were able to put themselves into positions of power. A LOT of "older women"--older than my 62 years--remember having felt powerless and voiceless and exploited, and are itching to get in (mebbe their last) good lick in before it ends.
That's what the purpose was for highlighting the disenfranchisement of that 92-year-old nun in Indiana--whose country, bayh the way?
OMG.
My text is not working.
Anyhoo, I really doubt after calling them racists, he would offer her the VP.
She is done at the convention and will start on the next cycle.
mudshark @ 51:
Obama's message of change gets demolished, Hillary overshadows him, and the Republicans can run on "keep Hillary out".
I dont forget what Hillary said in the primaries. I will never forget what she did during the primaries. To reward the Clintons after all of that would be to flush everything down the toilet.
There are many better choices (like Wes Clark or Joe Biden) without choosing Hillary.
I like the Clinton's but believe an assassination is more likely with VP Clinton!
just saying!
Bison @ 28:
Clark would be an excellent choice, but it appears he's not going to the Convention.
Every time I hear from Hillary and her 18 million anarchists who somehow think Obama owes them, and that the Democratic rules should keep changing until they win(she learned that from Dubya), I think about three times that total of galvanized, newly motivated voters who will vote just to vote against her and her angry, serial butt banging, living in denial husband.
delusional.
enigma4ever @ 50:
I will absolutely shit my pants if it is Clark. He will wipe the smirk off McCain's face like Patton meeting an over-aged Gomer Pyle. Clark is nothing but class and decency.
Some people are so filled with hate for HRC that they'd rather see us lose than accept HRC on the ticket.
We'll, you better hope he wins if he doesn't pick her.
mudshark @ 58:
OK, I'll change denial to deusional.
All the names- Wes Clark, Hillary, Biden, etc to me don't represent change at all. Come to think of it the Democratic party ahsn't been the best reps for change since 2006 either. Don't get me wrong, the Democratic party, neutered as it seems, is still a far cry from another 4 to 8 of the same tragedy, but if it is real change we want, Obama should pick someone other than the choices floating around. Out of all of them I think the one that does "seem" the most like change is Hillary... If it is a woman on the ticket that will fire up the party and its base then by all means choose Hillary.... or.... if it a woman that will do it then why not Governor Kathleen Sebelius?
Either way...the clock will be cleaned come November. Might be even if Obama were to choose a box of donuts for his running mate.
After all, the polls are bullshit and the country knows change when they feel it.
No one on Obama's current shortlist is going to deliver a thing. Just a bunch of white guys with serious limitations. If Obama wants to end this race, he probably needs Billary.
It's at the point where Obama has a decision: Either run this campaign the way he wants and perhaps lose...or swallow some pride, pick HRC, and come out on top.
I got noooooooo problem with Hillary as VP, and rather like the idea of a White House that is resurgent with a team of two people who actually are capable of getting things done.
That said, everyone likely chief concerns are the chemistry between CiC and VP, as well as whether Bill will behave (somehow being caught in a media firestorm of dissension borne of Bill's interfering is the last thing I want to hear from the mainstream media)
That, however, is speculative. What is not is that these two are incredibly charismatic politicians who likely can actually get something done for the American people, for a change.
mudshark @ 60:
Tell that to the numerous Hillary supporters who will now vote for McCain. They are the delusional ones.
And if Hillary is on the ticket, I would have a serious problem voting for Obama. He has already moved too far to the right for my tastes, and choosing pro-Iraq war Hillary would be another (perhaps final) nail in the coffin.
john @ 59:
Unfortunately, there was "drama" when Clark rightly pointed out that being a POW does not qualify one to be president.
Chris from Maine @ 54:
i'll take biden,clark,powell or clinton...i've said it all along......clinton will not tarnish the" change" message of course unless you listen to what the (R) and talking heads say......you don't think obama is going to have a cabinet with people of experience and a past. whatever
i just want obama elected. if clinton did get in i like our chances of getting somewhere with healthcare. it's all speculation..
I love the horse-race crap, but....Obama's sinking fast so he better do something...Big...and...quick.
Further, I really never thought we'd have a ticket with a black jr. senator from a northern state with the most disliked (and admired) woman in the country.
Go figure.
Ozymandias @ 38:
You're ranting. Hillary hate is out there, but for most people, even her detractors, they know damn well that nothing the Republicans offer could be nearly as effective as Obama/Clinton in the White House.
It's a surefire winner. Biden leaves the race wide open, depending on who McCain chooses and how things play out.
Chris from Maine @ 65:
Do you believe everything the media tells you?
I don't.
mudshark @ 70:
Actually I dont believe anything the media tells me. The corporate right wing media is controlled and dominated by insane neo-cons who have wet dreams about full scale nuclear war and a police state here at home.
Thanks for asking though.
37 Circularreasonning:
The Primary polls close and the numbers are as follows for the popular vote Obama 17,869,542 Hillary 18,046,007 now with the hellp of Howard Dean, Speaker Pelosi, Senators Kerry, Leahy and Kennedy the delegates gave their votes to Obama as the DNC asked Hillary to drop out before the end of the Primary so Obama would be the only candidate on the ticket. This information was given by all news station inside and outside the United States on every news station and the information can be google for those who didn't watch. Web site Real Clear Politics gives a complete breakdown of all the states and popular votes.
You used the word Stupidity and something about voters staying home. The Hillary base supporters are still in tack and I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Senator Obama thinks about the real 18 million Hillary supporters. We really enjoy working those phones for her and making friends from other states so we just keep in touch. We have a large group from the West, East, Mid West and all other area's going to the Democratic Convention in Colorado. I know you might not think much of woman by your comment but even Michael Phelps listened to his Mom and won 8 Gold Medals so I guess woman do know something about winning and what it takes to be a winner.
Next to Lieberman, Hillary would be the best.
http://boortz.com/images/lieberman_bush.jpg
I thought picking Hillary would be the smart thing to do, although I wish it wasn't necessary.
The Truth Hurts @ 66:
"Drama" for maybe one TV Rovian spot that would ultimately backfire, Wright, attacking Michelle, race card, this is real "drama". Some one mentioned Biden as Sec of State, and Clark as Sec of Defense. It appears a wrong VP choice will mean different career paths for each of them, including Obama.
Left&Left @ 61:
lol.
doh!
"Every time I hear from Hillary and her 18 million anarchists who somehow think Obama owes them"
ludicrous comment. see ya.
The Truth Hurts @ 63:
So all that matters is winning - doesn't matter how, or what compromises are made, as long as we win and they lose?
Then what the hell is the point? You're advocating victory above message, and that is no victory at all.
It's a turd sandwich, and I'm sick of those.
Trust me, it's Wes Clark.
oh.god.no.
My support for BO dropped dramatically with his cave-in on FISA, his pandering to the right, and his new support for off-shore drilling. Choosing rodent clinton would be the final straw.
obama's already made his choice, so the debate's over.
my guess would be kaine, since their families are from the same kansas community, kaine wasn't pro-oil war, kaine was one of obama's earliest supporters, and kaine's from virginia.
the allen / webb race in '06 was just the preface. whichever presidential candidate wins virginia in '08 is probably gonna win the presidency.
so kaine's my guess, but we'll all find out tomorrow or saturday.
Chris from Maine @ 65:
Throughout the Primary Hillary supporters constantly slammed Obama calling him an empty suit, inexperienced, naive, unelectable(black), etc. When we fought back and hard, we were accused of attacking her because she was a woman. Just like Bill and his endless booty calls, these folks play the blame game for keeps, accepting zero responsibility. I'm out, GNA.....these people will fight the primary until Hillary wins.
It is highly unlikely that Clark will be his choice. Clark did a live-blog today and here's a Q&A on the subject:
"Question: Gen. Clark, are you really not participating in the Democratic convention, and why not? Thanks. by cbellantoni
Answer: I will be at the Convention as soon as I finish some business requirements in Europe that I simply couldn't reschedule. I should be there on Thursday as things now stand. by Wesley_Clark
http://www.washingtontimes.com/livechat/2008/aug/21/gen-wesley-k-clark/
Within the Clark community it was reported that he had offered to change his schedule and was told "don't bother."
shoot, if we were looking at her credentials on paper without looking at the person, with all that is attached to being HRC... she is much more of a centrist the BO
with things going so far right, truly, way too far... there had to be a counterveiling BO to serve as some sort of foil to repub excess.
then he started give lip service to FISA flips and flops and energy flips and flops. that would otherwise be known as dancing toward the middle. (notice i am not passing jusdgement). it makes sense to have HRC come aboard right about now. total sense.
Clark doesn't play by the rules. He's too honest.
Other than that, I have no idea who it will be.
Che's Lounge @ 84:
exactly...........in some respects he would be a good choice because of that quality
Hillary knows how to fight, and that scares the ever-loving fuck out of Rove and company. They're the ones who started the "if Hillary wins the nomination, the Repug base will come out in droves to vote against her", and it truly dismays me that Democrats fell for that Br'er Rabbit/briar patch ploy. If you let your enemy decide your strategy for you, you deserve to have your testicles served to you on a dish.
I still think Hillary would have been the best choice for the top spot, because Obama just ain't countering the smears as hard as he should. If he ends up being just another Gore or Kerry, you folks are done for.
david_blimmo @ 40:
That'll be better than lesbian orgy porn, I say!
Since the cable news hyenas are getting paid to speculate wildly about this, I guess we're entitled to do it for free. Don't count Wes Clark out. He has military and national security credentials. He's from the South, land of the most successful Democratic candidates on the presidential ticket for the past 4 decades. He's a good friend of the Clintons, and thus would be a healing bridge between factions of the Democratic party. He's not a Washington insider. He was against the Iraq War from the beginnning. Thus, he supports Obama's brand of change. He's not a senator who would be replaced with a Republican by a Republican governor (as is the case with Evan Bayh).
The only supposed "controversy" that somehow knocked Wes Clark off the VP radar was when he was accused of being too aggressive against John McCain for arguing that McCain's military experience wasn't the kind of leadership or commander experience that prepares one to be President or Commander in Chief. I would argue that being this aggressive against McCain, using the Rovian tactic of attacking one's opponent on the very characteristic on which he claims strength, is a huge plus. Obama needs an aggressive advocate to help him win the election.
Ryko @ 79:
"rodent" is a pretty good word, since she'd literally crawl up through the white house plumbing if you told her that's the only way she could get back in...
At this point, Obama is looking like just another right-leaning politician. Adding another right-leaning pol like Clinton to the ticket will just double my disgust.
That said, she'd probably give him a boost, since hordes of Clinton supporters have decided to vote for McCain or stay home.
Trekkie @ 77:
So lose with dignity, again, and watch the really bad guys make policy for the next four/eight years.
You may be right John.
This guy connected the dots.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/clintons-the-likely-vp...
Bison @ 78:
You know, in some odd way I believe it is Wes Clark. They may be setting up detractors when the don't "commit".
If Obama has a shot in hell of winning in November he has to pick Hillary!! He's falling farther and farther behind Mccain on Ohio and Florida!
Yes John, I remember you saying Clinton should be the VP and in the same article dismissing other choices for detracting from Obama's opposition to the war from the beginning. How is Hillary different in that regard? And it doesn't matter what Obama's pledged delegates think. It matters what the swing voters think. And the voters who don't normally vote democrat (or at all) but just might if they believe obama really stands for change.
The way people treated us Hillary supporters, here and elsewhere......
CartoonCoyote @ 86:
But lesbian orgy porns are so Republican! Throw in a couple of sheep and call it a congressional day at taxpayer expense!
Chris from Maine @ 54:
Mostly you remember what somebody told you she said. I found of the pundits' interpretation of things she actually said was, what's the technical term, bullshit.
As Obama has some major kissing up to do to win back the women's vote, Hillary is the best choice. After Obama's Joe Lieberman wanna-be fiasco with his irresponsible FISA vote, HRC as VP would help with damage control and propel him to a more certain win. No one else would provide the kind of boost Obama now needs to fend off that lying, senile Bush clone. Obama may as well dig up Admiral Stockdale and bury his campaign if he goes with Nunn, Bayh, Biden or even Kaine - they add nothing and tells us Obama wants to lose.
StirFry @ 17:
Good choice. Also try Spaten Optimator or Weihenstephaner Korbinian or Weissbier. Or if you want a good American craft beer Sprecher Black Bavarian or Abbey Triple.
I've had this strange feeling today that he is going to pick Hilary given the way he was talking today and saying "he". He would not say that offhand. It makes me think he is saying "he" in order to make it a really big surprise. If he does pick Hilary it will be an incredible convention.
bmw H. 528 @ 99:
Fat Lip Ale.
Here's Bill Maher's take on this subject: http://onegoodmovemedia.org/movies/0808/lk081908billmaherpolitics.mov I am surprised I haven't seen this here before.
Ozymandias @ 38:
Let's get some perspective about Biden---he is a saint compared to somebody like Ted Stevens or Mitch Mc Connell. And unlike Mc Lamo, he talks straighter than most politicians.
Where's Shirley Chisholm when you really need her? She would really kick ass. RIP.
mudshark @ 101:
Yessir. Or for something really different Behemoth by 3 Floyds or Bourbon County Stout by Goose Island.
does anyone know what the odds are in las vegas? this is all a gamble anyway
CartoonCoyote @ 90:
If the alternative is win at any cost and lose sight of what the message was supposed to be?
Obama's ENTIRE MESSAGE is "I'm not like other Washington politicians". So tell me, EXACTLY, putting Hillary Clinton (the embodiment of the inside player) doesn't undercut the message.
I'd rather have my dignity and principles, thank you. If you don't like it, well you can take a long walk off a short pier for all I care.
I think Clark is the logical choice. I think Hillary would bump up the numbers, but she doesn't deserve the spot after her despicable, over-budget campaign. The Repubs will have a field day with her, not to mention how difficult it would be for this moronic country to vote for a black guy/woman ticket. They'd vote for Bozo the Clown before they'd do that.
Hmm, well since you all think that Obama needs Hillary to win (because apparently you need to appease the holdouts), I'm going to brave up and say if he doesn't pick Hillary and he loses, you all deserve McCain as President. Actually the attitude that if god forbid he thinks someone else may be a better VP for him were he to become President then we're going to lose disgusts me and I HOPE he doesn't pick her just to see everyone here act all self-righteous and see all your efforts go to shit in November. I'll even up the ante: if he picks her, I'll make sure to stay away from the ballot box in November just out of spite for your attitudes (why not since it's equally valid to stay home or vote for McCain if HRC isn't the VP).
Hell no
Having our stupid corporate media trailing the Penis around will make sure fuck-all gets done and it another one-term-Dem....
Trekkie @ 106:
You're not really going to use "I'm not like other Washington politicians" are you. Have you been watching his voting record lately? Obama and Clinton are two peas in a pod. Just look at they're voting records.
On a side note, I'd like to say McCain will pick either Lieberman or Governor Sarah Palin from Alaska.
McCain knows he need the votes from all the disenfranchised women. So, either we take HRC or McCain will take on a woman on the ticket just to sway some of the women.
Well. thats about it folks. Time to put up or shut up.
I think the only way we solidify Baracks chances is to select HRC, I'm beginning to like her and she would bring many voters with her. If not then I think it might end up more of McSame.........and dear God, I shudder to think of that at all. This Country is so screwed up now and the economy a wreck we need the right TICKET to win and for that ticket to be true to their word to the Middle Class! Then change will happen!
It would be ironic if Clinton found herself pushed deeply into a Gore type vice presidency. Michelle is no slouch. She admired Hillary. Maybe she will be a surprise, a quiet emulator, a co-president in the Hillary manner. Billary could be co-vice president to Bar-elle's presidency.
How about a really cathartic convention shocker: in proper parlimentary procedure Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton(D-NY) stands up and personally nominates Gov. Kathleen Sebelius(D-KS). A sort of passing of the torch.
I used to say "No way!"
Now I say "Why not?"
I like Biden, but I see Obama struggling under Rove's wheels. I think the Clintons (yes, both of them) could seriously derail the Straightjacket Express.
sure why not, she is great attack dog and she would bite at McCain's ankles pretty nastily.
Either Hillary or Biden, i'm okay with both.
just as long as they don't pick a softy weakling like an Edwards type.. Edwards lost to Chenney in the VP debate, what the hell, you suck Edwards!
I've always thought it was rather suspicous that Bill Clinton was going to speak right before the VP...
If that wasn't a clue as to who the VP was... then the networks aren't getting their money's worth out of talking pudding heads.
Hillary for VP hands it to McCain on a sliver platter. It's idiotic. Shouldn't we make McCain work for it if he wants to be president so damn badly? Must we gift-wrap it by getting as many Republican voters to the polls as we can possibly manage? Absolute lunacy. Let's choose the person who best aids our opponent's GOTV efforts. I can think of no better way to lose the South. A young black guy from Chicago and Hillary Clinton versus an old white Vietnam POW. In the South. Where voter suppression drives against minorities are to be taken for granted, and a lingering racism in the elderly whites who have no such problems voting, are both things you can take to the bank. Where talk radio rules and Hillary Clinton is the poster child for everything the right hates.
EPIC FAIL.
I refuse to believe that Obama would be so consumed by madness as to even consider the notion.
Sorry for weighing in without reading all the comments, but I just saw this post and it dovetails with the final item in the nightly news roundup that my partner and I post about this time every night, seven days a week (those of you who know this already, thanks for reading!)
Change you can forget about.
Typically White and Bitter Agent Hussein Provocateur @ 113:
I would prefer Kathleen serve out her term as Governor and take Sam Brownback's Class III senate seat away from him in 2010. Under that scenario we can turn KS purple, at least. The state has a Democratic Governor and two of the state's House members are Democrats. Sebelius can unseat Brownback walking away, and I haven't written off my friend Jim Slattery yet, either. Kansans are right pissed at Roberts. He screwed up the intel and got us into a war that is hurting local economies, and he screwed up the Boeing deal. He ain't reelected yet, and if I learned one thing in the years we were billeted at McConnell AFB in Wichita, it is that Kansans will, as often as not, surprise you at the ballot box. If the people of Kansas were doing much more than paying lip service to the pro life movement, they would put a Phil Kline type in the Sedgewick County DA's office. Instead, they reelect Nola Foulston every four years like clockwork with tremendous majorities.
seriously @ 15:
Sorry to go against the well wishers but here goes! (BBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!). Hillary Clinton needs to go far and significantly away into obscurity, like a piece of cat hair sucked up in a Dyson somewhere in Ontario. Hillary had strong support because she ran a stupid campaign and her followers were just as stupid; sorry Kentucky, your bitch ain't comin' back! The Clintons need to retire to the million dollar trailer park and let the youngenz take care of the biznatch.. There is no room for a two-bit, Annie Oakley, sorry! I so look forward to never seeing her and her family ever again! Here's a check and here's a very religulous prayer! Die Hillary, Die!!!!!!! Please?
mudshark @ 60:
If he doesn't pick her, I won't have to hope he wins, because he will win.
I don't hate Hillary Clinton. I don't know the woman. I know that there's been a Bush or Clinton as President or Vice-President since 1980, and that that has to stop here and now. Time for a new constitutional amendment. No more family members and spouses of Presidents getting to be President or by extension Vice-President. Five generations of separation should be required by strictly enforced law, with no exceptions. The potential for corruption and long term damage to the system across generations should be obvious to anyone with a remote familiarity with current events. There are other qualified candidates. Let them get a turn.
LOL
I hope like hell he is not stupid enough to go Hillary. He does not need this woman undermining him and I think he know that she wil, so he wont.
Besides, she and her husband hate him and I don't think that Obama and his wife have any great love for the Clintons.
I think he dropped the "he" pronoun to throw the press off the scent.
It's Clinton.
~Blue Girl @ 120:
Wesley Clark would be perfect. Barring that, do we really have to go through this again?
*She lost*. That is over.
She is carrying all the Clinton baggage. Millions of people around the country HATE the Clintons.
Look how well we did when we had a weasly, hatable guy running for VP before (Lieberman).
bmw H. 528 @ 99:
F*ck yeah, Sprecher Black Bavarian is wicked good. I'll try those others, too . thx !
Damn, in 125 I mistakenly put my statments "Obama/Clinton loses to McCain/(randomly chosen woman). Take that one to the bank.", "Obama/Clinton is a cointoss against McCain/Lieberman. Too close to call.", and "There’s no way in hell these Democrats are that smart. But I like that idea a lot, personally. That’s classy." in a quotation that implies that ~BlueGirl said them. She did not, that was my bad.
Ugh, please - no more Bush or Clintons.
If she gets VP, that means there will have been a Bush or Clinton in office for the last 30 years.
I thought Obama was the "candidate for change".
Jeon Ji-Yung @ 117:
Epic Fail is absolutely right. I can't believe anyone's even entertaining this ridiculous notion. It's stuff like this that makes me think, "Stupid Democrats, it's like they want to lose."
HRC should have been eliminated from VP contention the minute she proclaimed she and McCain knew more about foreign policy than Obama.
It's mind-boggling that so many are casting Obama's decision as winning ugly (with HRC) vs. losing like a wuss but keeping his dignity (without HRC). Does it even occur to everyone that people who vote for one Democrat in the primary can still vote for the other in the general election? And that most probably will? And that it's happened before, for crying out loud? Ever consider that Obama might have a better shot of winning if he campaigns with someone who's really on his side, instead of an arranged marriage with someone who isn't - and is the party's biggest lightning rod to boot?
[slaps Democratic Party upside head]
Obama's done. Stick a fork in him. Stick a fork in America while you're at it.
We are going to get clobbered in November no matter who he picks. The voting machines in Ohio and Florida have already been configured. WE LOSE! Just another rigged election. All this discussion is useless.
I think HRC would be fine to me. It would unite the Democrats and we don't have to worry about her being shy about being a pit bull. We know how tenacious she is. Also, love her or hate her, but she just doesn't give up. She wants to win and I think that passion is what the Obama campaign needs right now. I'm on board for Obama/Clinton 08. Bring it on!
Jeon Ji-Yung @ 128 - No big whoop! I was confused for a minute but I figured it out. :)
The question I asked myself during the primaries was:
"Why do Rush and the Rovians want HRC to win so badly that they'd game open elections?"
The canned response of they're just trying to "make it a horse race" always rang flat to me. Why then? Methinks it's because they know there *is* an irrational hated of that woman by the Republican base (and I mean base in all senses of the word). She would bring out the goopers by the pickup full, something McCain is incapable of on his own.
Sorry, but ABC.
Still.
Having voted for the war HRC cancels one of Obamas greatest advantages having voted against it. My VP fantasy would be Eric Shinseki. Think about it.
Bruce H. @ 132:
Idiotland @ 131:
I've never heard so much whining in my life. You do realize this thing is winnable right? Grow a spine, get some optimism, and ride some people out to the polls. You think the neocons are carrying on like this? I want to win this bad enough that I don't mind it getting dirty the next few months. Someone like Hillary is needed in this last stretch to bring the fire. I remember in the primaries, she would not quit. She kept going and going and going. And while some of us hated it, it's that kind of spirit the Democrats need to get back the White House. No offense but this defeatist bullshit has to stop.
Texas Democrat @ 133:
If it is Hillary, a lot of out-state rural voters who are, rightly or wrongly, apprehensive about Obama for whatever reasons, will be placated. Last fall when we went to our place in the county from whence we came for bow season we were first floored by the degree of support Hillary had in farm country. And she took the rural areas walking away. Missouri was initially called for her, then it went to Obama late in the evening - I want to say it was almost midnight. This evening I called my father in law and told him about the posters at the campaign hq and he heaved a sigh of relief. He picks Hillary, he takes Missouri, Arkansas and quite possibly Texas.
bilhelm-X @ 121:
You not only go against what you perceive as the 'well-wishers' sir, but against any measure of balanced protocol and decent taste as well. A troll as some yet unspecified variety you embody.... Now, I can imagine a choice for Sebelius as an obvious slap against HRC- don't think that would play well. And hasn't Gen. Clark burned bridges with those who may be on the fence and are testy as regards McCain's POW experience? (although I largely agree with his premise) Let's see....it's all so interesting!
Texas Democrat @ 133:
Mario Cuomo said it best... "Obama speaks in poetry and Clinton speaks in prose. You need both to win."
They would untie the party and be an unbeatable team. Economic populism is her strong suit and Obama has turned in that direction in response to the polls and he's right to do so.
Clintons have a hard time being vetted and if you want a 24 hr psyco drama each day she is the choice. The puma's are righties and a new poll show that 49% do not want to see her on the ticket and her negatives are just as high.And just think of all the new ads coming our way for the next two months about these two.Not to mention how he would have to watch his back on a constant basis because they are nothing if not ruthless and dishonest. Other than that they are a great choice.And yes it is they .that is if Bill can get off the party plane with his buddy Ron Burkle .
so the bitch hillary and her whoremonger hubbie can give the repugs all the ammo they need, and all is forgiven, just cuz a bunch of dried up old hags wont vote for obama cuz he was born with a penis???
fuck that
Katie @ 141:
And if Obama picks the most perfect person to be his running mate, there won't be nasty ads from the other side? I can guarantee you if Obama were to pick Ronald Reagan himself, there would be nasty ads. So how about we just let him pick the person he think is most qualified and go after McCain's number 2?
His pick is Gen. Wesley Clark.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 142:
So I guess the GOP is running the show? Let's get this straight. Obama is quite possibly the cleanest candidate we've had in a while and he's still being smeared. Why is everyone so afraid of the Republicans anyway? Let them shoot their pee shooters. They're going to do it anyway because that's what the hell they do. We got back the House and Senate in 06 and we can get back the White House in 08.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 142:
I do think you've misidentified the major demographic and its fearful motives which have far more sway in consideration of an Obama/Clinton ticket. And watch your language sir! Your vulgar ilk would never have crosed this old whore's red-hued illuminated doorstep had you called upon my particular services in the day.
Chris from Maine @ 49:
have you observed how much of a control freak obama is? he runs a tight ship. he wont let hillary be the boss of him.
Texas Democrat @ 143:
I will go you one better - he could pick Jesus himself, and the wingers would get their knickers in a twist because the ticket was a black and a Jew.
~Blue Girl @ 148:
Ronald Reagan is right up there with Jesus to some 'cons so it was a tough one for me. It's amazing that the Republicans haven't had a single new idea since Reagan. It's like those Cubans who keep those classic cars from breaking down using whatever means necessary.
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