Bail-Outs Will Cost America $1-2 Trillion
A CNN report on Wall Street's freefall, in which a top trader says "How big's the graveyard? We don't know."
Between one and two trillion dollars - that's what Kenneth Rogoff, professor of economics at Harvard University and former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, thinks the financial crisis will cost American taxpayers. He writes in the Financial Times:
Were the financial crisis to end today, the costs would be painful but manageable, roughly equivalent to the cost of another year in Iraq. Unfortunately, however, the financial crisis is far from over, and it is hard to imagine how the US government is going to succeed in creating a firewall against further contagion without spending five to 10 times more than it has already, that is, an amount closer to $1,000bn to $2,000bn.
That's a massive increase, and it's going to effect everyone somehow.
A large expansion in debt will impose enormous fiscal costs on the US, ultimately hitting growth through a combination of higher taxes and lower spending. It will certainly make it harder for the US to maintain its military dominance, which has been one of the linchpins of the dollar.
The shrinking financial system will also undermine another central foundation of the strength of the US economy. And it is hard to see how the central bank will be able to resist a period of allowing elevated levels of inflation, as this offers a convenient way for the US to deflate the mounting cost of its private and public debts.
"Rising interest rates and a rapidly devaluing dollar" are going to hit all of us, in loan repayments and in rising costs for imports - meaning a far more expensive weekly grocery bill as well. And all of this means John McCain's budget - with tax cuts and rising military spending - is absolutely unsustainable while even Obama's figures must be revised.
As much as it pains me to say it - because the taste of corporate socialism as a reward for corporate robbery is so bitter - I believe that the US and other governments must do what they must to save us all from the excesses of “laissez fair” financial markets that were self-rigged in favor of a few insiders out to asset-strip and make hay while the sun shone. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate. Take AIG - it is inextricably bound through investments with Lloyd's of London and other international big fish. It the Lloyd's/AIG pairing were to have collapsed, the international finance system would have also collapsed, beyond repair - not so much from actual losses as from perception of irremediable weakness. I don't think it would be hyperbolic to say we'd have been looking at a financial wasteland with costs ultimately born be each of us far in excess of $2 trillion.
Over at Economists for Obama, though, they're looking for a thin silver lining even while being dpressed about prospects for one:
it means the next president will face highly constrained choices. At the same time, I've been wondering if the crisis sets the stage for Obama to be a transformative president in the mold of FDR. If the crisis gets to the point that many people feel it in their everyday lives--and I think it will--there will be demands for government to restore trust in the system and strengthen the frayed social safety net, e.g. through universal health care and modernized regulation like that Obama has called for repeatedly, most recently in yesterday's speech.
My worry is that Obama will step into the White House facing loud calls for the government to take a greater role but will find the crisis has left the nation's finances in tatters and without the resources to respond to those demands.
UPDATE: (Nicole) The Agonist: Hypocrisy Replaces Bull As Symbol of Wall Street
its over johnny
Didn't you always want to own AIG? well guess what, now you do! Thanks for taking the risk for us, America!
According to CNN.COM http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/18/news/economy/rtc_speculation/index.htm?c... Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are involved in the negotiations to bail out banks. I hope it isn't another USA PATRIOT ACT in the sense that it is rushed through the congress without any thought or involvement of the members of the Congress. It is interesting that everyone is talking about an early sunset, close to Inauguration Day, so as to not bind the hands of the 44th.
Does anyone know if it's true that they're going to use Social Security funds to bail out AIG?
That's what I heard today.
But the Republicans can say, with a clean conscience, they didn't raise taxes. Technically. Even though the next three generations will be financing the war and the deregulation fallout.
The main problem is the housing sector.
What the FEDS should do is identify homeowners who are in trouble and issue them a $25,000 secured debt that is paid directly to their mortgage holder. The loan is assigned to their property at their registry of deeds. It's a primary mortage, meaning it takes precedence over the initial banks mortgage. If their mortgage is an adjustable or has a heinous interest rate, the bank should be urged/forced to rewrite it into a better loan. The $25,000 is then posted to the homeowners account and is used as a cushion while they either catch up, make partials, or seek a buyer.
This works because:
1. It will increase the liklihood the homeowner can remain in their house.
2. It still helps the banks without being FREE money for them. We've given almost $600,000,000 to the banks and discounted another trillion in loans and STILL people are being cast out into the street.
3. Buys time for a way to keep houses off the market at cheap foreclosure prices and help stabilize the housing prices...which even Greenspan admits is the thing that is killing Wall Street.
Again. It's not a handout. It's a loan backed by the government and MUST be repaid.
I think those are more Conservative estimates and only scratch the surface. I think the cost to the U.S. taxpayer will be much, much higher especially if they bring back the Resolution Trust Corp. to buy up all of that toxic debt. The cost assumed by the U.S. taxpayer for the losses during the S&L crisis is peanuts compared to this one especially if you count in credit default swaps.
By the time these asshats get done, this country will be more nationalized than ever before. Odd that.
4 mudshark Says:
"Does anyone know if it’s true that they’re going to use Social Security funds to bail out AIG?
That’s what I heard today."
I don't know about using Social Security Funds but I wouldn't put it past them. In fact, I had heard that the recent loan to AIG included a clause that allows most firms to liquidate at will customer brokerage accounts to assist them if necessary. At this point, anything is possible especially since we see the Government and the Fed in such a panic.
doesn't america just usually print more money? the new york is soon going to be worth the beads they used to nick it off the indians. the pound the euro, the yen etc is what the world is going to trade with this centuary.
it's karma. the world is paying back the bush america.
Well that sounds encouraging doesn't it.
Welcome to the future my children and grandchildren! You will be paying of massive debt because of the Conservative Movement! The idea started by the beloved Reagan and supported by old, rich, white, neo-cons, whose only purpose in life is to make you live in dirt! Middle Class, need not apply.
mudshark @ 4:
Uh, there are no Social Security funds. Its already been borrowed.
Here's hoping that every single American realizes and remembers just how bad the Republicans and the so-called conservatives have screwed each of us, our kids and grandkids.
Heckofajob, asshats.
Which is about the same price tag as Bush's Iraq Adventure.
I always had faith that the Bush administration would make the Keating-McCain S+L scandal look like small potatoes.
This Nation is dead. Toast. it makes NO difference who we elect. The clock is ticking. America can't afford this. The party is over everyone. So what should we do next . . . a parliamentary system?
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 6:
the war is on against the middle class. this is another salvo. a pretty hefty one.
Good thing that McInsane wants to lower taxes for those of us who make $50,000,000 a year. Phew (wiping brow), I sure wouldn't want to be the guy who makes $65,000 a year. He's going to end up with nothing.
Willard Romney was bragging there will be no money for change. If true, they should stop the wars or we will end up like the Soviet Union.
They are banning short trading like England.
The gop are howling about Socialism.
C Span will be entertaining after w submits his proposal.
It's out of control.
why does McCain always either have his hands clasped, use both to hold the microphone, or keep both hands on the podium at all times? If he's not purposely motioning his hands to emphasize a point, he's got them clamped down on something. Is he trying to hide a health problem?
I suspect Bin Laden will come out soon and declare Pres. Bush the honorary "No. 3" man in Al Qaeda.
They'll never have a soldier in their financial jihad against the U.S. as good as him.
is it time for rich uncle pennybags to print us up some more free money, out of thin air?
how does he do that magick trick?
mudshark @ 4:
Nope, they can't access SS. Which is the cookie jar they have been lusting after for the better part of half a century.
Now if the average American wasn't dumber than a bag of rocks, they should start to ask loudy how come there is supposedly no money for "universal" health care and social safety nets, yet... there seem to be 2+ trillion $$$ for war and bailing out Wall Street.
What a legacy Bush is passing on to the next president. If it's Obama, look for the 2012 elections to be about how he'll essentially be responsible for the horrible state of the economy four years from now. Or, hey, maybe there will be a huge turnaround. I dunno, I just see a no-win situation. I sure hope Obama wins, but he'll have more work cut out for him than any president in... what, 30+ years?
maybe he can bring his muslim friends over to help us out!!!
Goodbye Middle Class - get your ticket to the poverty train.
All aboard!
this crisis is not over. they are going to tear through that easy money and come back (hat in hand) for more. what i'm afraid of is that the fed will oblige.
One of the first things that President Obama must do after his inauguration, is to announce that we the people will cease feeding the military industrial complex (2007 budget ~ $620 billion), and summarily chop their handout/welfare payments by at least 30%. This one act will free up billions for programs and projects that actually help people. Removing our troops from Iraq will be the icing on the cake.
Hello, inflation!
PRINT, PRINT, PRINT!
ldzppln @ 21:
Nah, Johnie boy has nothing to hide. Other than his skin cancer, his mini-strokes, his obvious physical disability, and what are serious signs of senile dementia... other than that he has a clean bill of health. If by clean you mean the GOP's definition.
When the numbers get this big, they become imaginary. This number is very hard to imagine.
Well, when does Blackwater come and round us up and put us in the camps?
the u.s. government on behalf of the public will provide
bailouts for private financial institutions/banks.
the public wants large paying pool healthcare ins. but
we can't have it because it's too expensive and it's a
form of 'socialism'. i don't get it. we can pay for war(s)
provide a billion dollars for Georgia,10 billion for
pakistan....money for israel but the american people
forget it.
IdiotShrub @ 28:
Obama's life expectancy would be reduced to zero if he were to do that.
constituent @ 33:
Well, that money comes from the American tax payer. So the US Governmint is assuming that us Tax payers are not indian givers and we don't need it anyways.
bob's mom @ 32:
The camps? Why... the whole country will be one big merry camp...
We wouldn't need universal healthcare if they'd stop debasing our currency. We've had constant inflation ever since and even before we left the gold standard, but our wages haven't kept pace. Goods and services have risen in price because the purchasing power of the dollar has gone down. Many people haven't caught on to this because stores replaced expensive American goods with cheaper goods from China. You can't substitute chinese healthcare for american healthcare though, so many people can't afford it.
If they don't fix the inflation problem, this universal healthcare "solution" will require an ever increasing amount of tax money to fund due to the weaker and weaker dollar. This ever increasing tax burden is going to be given to whom?
People need to take the crash course so they understand what is happening to our economy.
If you thought inflation was bad before, wait until this 1-2+ trillion dollar debacle works its way through the economy.
People can joke about the stupidity of George Bush and the underhandedness of Dick Cheney, but this stuff proves there are consequences of when a nation elects and supports stupid people and criminal behavior.
bob's mom @ 32:
Don't worry, the middle class is safe. Only those with income under $5M go to camps.
wow ! I am becoming part owner of one institution after another, ..what a bonanza !...can I sell ? who buys?..oh wait a minute its ME..doesnt feel quite right somehow..is this part of the 'trickle down ?, that smelly orange wet stream from above, from those promising us rain ? It is the ol' Golden 'parachutes' vs 'golden showers', 'privatizing profit and socializing loss'.
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 26:
Is it to late for me to buy a ticket?
I graduated from college in 2005 and I'm stuck working at FedEx as a package handler for $8 an hour part time. I love this economy!
Good to see that Republicans have opened their eyes to the virtues of socialism. Now that the risks have been socializied the next step is to socialize the profits.
That's amazing, the debt is 9.6 trillion. It was 5 trillion when Bush came in. And now an extra 1 or 2 trillion just for this? Wow.
McHoover has something wrong with him. Can't remember anything,confused,has to read everything or he lies. To my friends in Spain, this man speaks for himself, not the American People. If you haven't noticed, Europe and more don't like McHoover or Bush/cheney one bit.
Captain Bitter Angry Kangaroo @ 13:
In fact there's nothing anywhere. Everything the government does has to be borrowed.
These bail outs are wrong. If they truly believe in capitalism, let these corrupt executives fail. If not then to be fair socialism must extend to all United States citizens not just big business.
I think the part that bothers me most is that Grover Norquist and the Neocons have 'shock doctrined' this country so that they will be able to drown the government in a bathtub. When this nation bought the lie that "property values only go up, so over-finance your ambitions", they knew they had us hooked.
noitaluspacne @ 37:
Of course you are aware that there has been plenty of inflation with the gold standard... Case study: Weimar Republic circa the late 20s, or the late 19th century Britain and US.
Wealth representation (gold standard or fiat) is not the cause of inflation, credit is.
...And people laughed at Ron Paul.
Tyler Durden @ 24:
No offense Tyler. But if Reagan can steal from it , these criminals sure as hell can.
Tyler Durden @ 36:
The camps will only be used if people revolt, and that doesn't seem likely to be the case, so they won't be necessary. They are so 20th century. Today they'll just buy up the media, put sodium fluoride in our water, censor the internet, and control the currency. That should do it. Blackwater will always be on hand though in the case they are needed.
Edgar @ 46:
See 42 above.
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 6:
All of this sound great, until you figure out that proposals such as this will only delay the inevitable demise of the incredibly overpriced real estate market and ultimately only benefits the lenders. It's like continually taking asparin for a bad tooth; it only delays the inevitable removal of the offending tooth, painful as it may be. The real eatate market needs re-adjust way down, maybe to 1998 prices, and the sooner we can get there the better we will all be in the long run. Furthermore, Americans have been sold a bill of goods by the banks, as to the benefits of home ownership. The fact is that not everyone needs to, or should be a homeowner. In fact, smart money is already long divested from owning real estate. Renting, in most cases, could be a far more viable option. At the end of the day all that you really need are four walls with a roof. Let the damn house go and rent instead, you will immediately unload the stress, keep more of your money, regain control of your life and live without signing your life over to a bank to be their chattel for the next 30 years.
Idiotland @ 45:
EVERYTHING is borrowed, period. At interest.
Money as debt.
The temptation is to think that these people are as dumb as logs. They are not, they are going to be bailed out.
The people that made the bad loans made their profit. They bundled the bad loans in funny financial instruments with no regulation against them, and they sold them. No regulation thanks to Phil Gramm and the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.
The Banks holding all these bad loans are going belly up and we are going to bail them out.
Who are the dummies in all of this. We are.
The Fat Cats are going to walk.
This is class warfare 101.
BeeSting @ 49:
i'ma proud democrat.....i listened to him. why?
ron paul is a real old fashion conservative. he's
very knowledgable about the economy.
by the way he's NOT supporting mccain. ron paul
does NOT support many of mccain's policies/voting.
paul is NOT happy with mccain's attitude about
mccain's foreign policy.
Howdy, this your stuff?
L.A. Sure go ahead.
I pick up stuff. A recycler.
L.A. No anyone who hauls? I got about about a 3/4 ton general debris.
Only bigger loads. Did ya know Gold shot up today?
L.A. No I'm not paying to haul with gold.
Have a good one then
L.A. Yeah
(This actually happened today)
I don't want to bail anyone out - lenders, the buyers who fell for the predatory lending - none of them.
Banks are being propped up that will survive to keep people in debt forever and perpetuate the sick credit economy we live in.
The cash infusions and rescues will only allow will game will continue. That's not the answer.
Let it all come tumbling down, the whole sick enterprise.
Edgar @ 46:
They don't believe in capitalism, they believe in fascism. They TELL you they believe in capitalism though. There are apparently enough dumb people out there that take them at their word that they keep getting re-elected.
Tyler Durden @ 24:
Because we "had" to. Or all the rich F#cks would lose their millions and then they would take the rest of us down with them.
Now they keep their millions and take the rest of us down on our own.
9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING.
Tony Blair is on "The Daily Show" and falling back on this slogan anytime Jon Stewart trips him up. It is sickening.
9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING.
Such a bullshit out. Yet we as a country, the media, the blogs, refuse to look any deeper. Stupid.
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 26:
Geno in Ptown @ 41:
Yet all our fucking tax money is going to Iraq and Israel. Why the fuck aren't we taking care of our own country instead of dealing with our empire building abroad.
IdiotShrub @ 53:
I disagree....strongly.
Most of the chaos is because we are stuck in a very disorderly downslide. My plan would give a two-year cushion to work things out a bit. The fact is that the FEDS HAVE ALREADY GIVEN THE BANKS THE MONEY WITH MORE TO COME. That will solve nothing until the housing market bottoms out. My plan gives the market a softer bottom NOW. In the meantime, these homeowners will have a chance to work things out. Putting people in the street doesn't solve a damn thing. Dumping more houses on the market doesn't solve a damn thing. If the government is going to put all this money in play, they might as well get maximum value for it AND have it being returned in the future. It's common sense.
Renting is a waste of money.
Tyler Durden @ 48:
Yes I am aware. I am also aware that when the people in charge of the money supply operate without any kind of accountability, it is normal for there to be inflation (Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely). A gold backed currency is a form of accountability. A fiat based currency, which is what we have, has none and the Federal Reserve bank, a private banking cartel, doesn't appear to be accountable to anyone.
Refresh my memory for me here. Which party has been in power for 8 years? Isn't it the same party that John McCain is a part of?
Marcy Kaptur Lays a little smack down.
But who's listening?
Peoples Front of Judea @ 66:
Yes and No. Yes, if you live in the Real World. No, if you watch FOX News.
mccain wants to fire SEC commisioner christopher cox
a former REPUBLICAN due to the financial crisis that
is occuring......well he can't do that. cox plans on
retiring and stepping down soon anyways.
the SEC is made up of 5 members 3(R) and 2(D)
learn your potential job/position of being the president
wow you've been in washington 26 yrs.
cox a former republican congressman now with the SEC
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 64:
The only way that your plan would actually favor the homeowner in any way would be to have the lender agree to substantially decrease the amount of the note and refinance the lower amount, which they will not do. A government subsidy (or "cushion", as you call it) at the original loan amount will only benefit the banks in the long run, while the borrower knocks himself out to pay on a rapidly depreciating (asset?) liability. It's still delaying the inevitable bottoming out by introducing artificial means. Look at where this kind of chickanery has put us today. The banks and big lenders ALWAYS win, Bill and Mary ALWAYS gets scerwed. How about letting them eat cake for once? What's a bigger waste of money than over-paying on a rapidly depreciating asset?
Which candidate has the talent and temperament to strengthen our alliances with the rest of the world?
I am not a conspiracy nut, but is all of this economic chaos planned? Do I smell the Feds taking over the financial system entirely? Could the economic recession/depression actually give fodder to those who say that Bush will not leave office, but announce a martial law situation? With all of this money being doled out to keep the economy afloat, what will really fix it? The first fix in my opinion is to make sure McCain and Palin do not win in Novermber. If McCain wins the middle class will be gone in short order.
So instead of regulating the market, they let homeowners get screwed. Then instead of bailing out a few homeowners, they let it escalate until it threatens giant corporations who insure securities. And they fix the problem by bailing out those firms. Meanwhile, it's already too late as investors around the world loose confidence in the system we've got going now, so more companies are bound to fail.
Is it time the CEO's of America got raises?
constituent @ 33:
Yeah, but see this is good socialism, because it's rich people helping other rich people. The socialism that helps poor people is bad.
Just like that, with no input from Congress or ANYBODY, we're loaning (but probably just giving) trillions of dollars away to those poor giant banks.
This is the country that cannot possibly AFFORD to spend billions on health care, or education, or housing, or poverty or any of that other socialism, but we can suddenly just drop everything and give TRILLIONS of dollars to rich people.
Well I say BULL$HIT! Wall Street is just a bunch of rich people ripping us off for money and rewarding themselves with giant salaries for successfully ripping people off.
Let them GO UNDER, and let's spend this money where it will do some real good for the hard working middle class.
And when you have Republican friends, just remind them that in the final measure, it's nothing but the ultra rich making sure they STAY ultra rich. So if your Republican friends are not ultra rich tell them to make sure they smile and look happy while they pull their pants back up after being f^&ked by their own party,
I hope McCain's faith in the fundamental soundness of the American worker is not misplaced 'cause you guys are going to have to put in some serious overtime. I'd guess about three generations worth.
Owning AIG is nice and all, but I would've rather had universal health care.
bob's mom @ 32:
they get a majority of US forces out of the country and then they bring in NATO troops
after martial law is declared - Blackwater will administer the camps.
that's how it will likely go down.
Maybe the cold war never ended. Maybe Russia decided to infiltrate our politics with key operatives that would seed a new brand of politics that would make America crumble from within rather than from external force.
I'm talking out of my ass. But, if you were to find out that the Republican agenda's intent was to bring America to it's knees, wouldn't EVERYTHING they do make so much more sense?
So, in the end,
we will own all the debt and none of the title.
Even a black hole would be impressed.
"hey Nancy, just put it on my tab"
- G.W.
They won't cut military funding. They won't stop the space program. They won't stop bailing out millionaires. They won't stop foreign aid. They won't stop invading more countries. What they will do is cut child health care, medicaid, medicare, Social Security WIC, food stamps, heat assistance for the poor and elderly and disabled. They'll let babies and little children starve, because they're not worth a plug nickle after they're BORN. George Bush and Dick Cheney will stay in office for 4 more years because this is the "National Emergency" he and the Republicans gave him the power to suspend the elections FOR and stay in power as long as HE chooses to say the emergency exists. He gets to be the dictator he always was except out in the open instead of behind closed doors and hiding behind the rest of his signing statements. I'd like to know the name of the person who thinks Bernanke has the right to decide on his own that he has the right to steal billions of dollars from the tax payers in the first place. Congress is supposed to have the power of the purse, not some nobody chosen by a corrupt president to run an agency, but congress has been AWOL for a long time. If McCain's lucky Bush and Cheney might even make him their official shoe shine boy and Sarah the Pig in lipstick their maid in waiting.
Expand the national debt! Fire up them printing presses we gots to dilute the fake money (a.k.a currency) dollar into hyper-inflation at ludicrous speed! Who's gonna pay? Why the people! We need a stimulus check! Who's gonna pay? Why the people! We need an emergency plan and in bipartisan LUV they emerged tonight with a direction. Who's gonna pay? Why the people!
Just remember this people when that loaf of bread costs you 10 bucks, and a can of soup is 5 bucks. Remember it was BOTH PARTIES that handed the private corporation known as the FED who has no reserve of money (and who's largest holder is JP Morgan Chase) effectively the FED is JP Morgan Chase. The dollar will collapse, it's unavoidable now, because all these bail outs are inflation, the expansion of the dollar.
MsJoanne @ 14:
Not bloody likely. According to the latest polls, about 42% of Americans have already forgotten how the Republicans are incapable of running a country - and the disaster isn't even a memory. It's current events!
You're talking about a voting public that has constantly fallen for the line that Republicans are more patriotic and strong on defense - the same party whose President broke the law by selling weapons to our sworn enemy and using that money to fund fascist terrorists!
Stone Pony @ 85:
I saw bipartisan LUV tonight when the law makers came out and told us we would pay for this mess. All they can do is print money, it you and I who are going to pay for this through inflation. Both parties are idiots, they got FED tripe by Paulson and Bernanke tonight and the sleek headed fools are handing the chickens over to the foxes. Divine intervention is needed to dump DC into the ocean.
.
I just feel for the voters who've disenfranchised by their lost mortgages and no longer can vote in the November elections...
.
Edgar @ 46:
See, but that's where you're confused. If they believed in a "fair-game" capitalist system, certainly, there would be no "gaming" of the system. It's set up to work in their favor.
In their world, it is perfectly legal to drive a company into the ground and still walk away with millions or billions, despite their employees losing their jobs and life's savings. Just look at Ken Lay from Enron.
And it's perfectly legal for the Vice President to allocate billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars without any competition or oversight to his own company to dump profits into his own pockets, even when the overall market is failing. Just look at Halliburton.
And it's perfectly legal for a company to reap record profits and for that company's CEO to retire with a half a billion dollar retirement package, despite the fact that average Americans are paying triple at the pump. Just look at Exxon.
And it's perfectly legal for an investment bank to sell risky loans to millions of Americans, understanding fully that they probably will default.
Then when the bank goes bankrupt, it's perfectly legal for the government to help them out, and not help out a single person the bank promised loans to.
This is the system of the Republicans. It is created to benefit the people who are at the top, while eliminating any accountability on their part, wholly financed by taxpayers and average people. There is no risk involved. Zero.
Have you ever seen them go to jail for anything? The "ol' boys"?
Did McCain go to jail for the Keating Five?
Did Bush go to jail for insider trading before his company, Harken Energy, folded?
Did Ken Lay go to jail for running Enron into the ground?
Will anybody go to jail from Lehman or AIG or anybody for this stock market crash?
No.
But who has paid for all of these debacles? You and me.
This is the Republican capitalist system. Spread our risk amongst y'all.
THE BEAUTY IS, IT'S NOT CALLED TAXES. BUT IT'S DAMN WELL WHAT IT IS. THE DIFFERENCE BEING, WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT THEY DO WITH OUR MONEY.
Couple this 1-2 trillion with the studies that have been done that put the real costs of the war in Iraq... when all is paid for at 3.1 Trillion and it starts to add up to real money!
So let's add up the costs of Bush's stupidity up;
4 trillion added to the national debt since 2000
2 trillion for the buy outs resulting from the subprime/credit fiasco
3 trillion for a discretionary war that shouldn't have been started (remember the war isn't in any budgets)
-----
9 trillion dollars for W's stupidity and the PNAC...
now lets go gripe about gay marriages or something equally meaningful eh?
Socialism for corporations and for congress.
But you'd better believe we re-thug-lics would never inflict such an evil on the American public!
No SIR!! Not ONE socialist program penny for them -- Not a single bloody cent!
*
Does anyone recall what the tab was supposed to be for universal health care in this country? Everyone howled that it would be "too expensive." I'd like to compare that to the cost of Iraq & the multiple bailouts.
bob's mom @ 32:
Can`t buy food, fuel, shelter, yeah Blackwater is gearing up for chaos. Big Corporations will have plenty of work for them. You want to demonstrate or revolt, you will then be labeled a threat to the Nation. The Neocons are loving every minute of this shit. Mayhem in the streets, just what they wanted, then marshall law. No election. Your phones and the internet will be bugged. There will be plenty of ex military looking for work. Two terms of Bush and what do you have. Don`t be mistaken, this shit started with 9/11. The neocons saw the opportunity and the American People bought their line, hook, and sinker. And now what? The fuckers are still in power and the Democrats helped them stay there. The Chinese own your financial system. Now to top it off its very possible the bimbo, Sahara Palin, will be your next President. And why, because she will be voted in just like Bush or the election will stolen just like before. By the way where is Bin Laden? Russia and China are just marking time.
I almost don't want Obama to win, because as someone else pointed out all of this will fall on him to clean up.
Obama would have to fix our problems with/in; economy, Iraq, gas/energy prices, Afghanistan, places destoryed by Katrina, Pakistan, places destroyed by Ike, Social Security, pork barrel spending, "war on terror", failing transportation structure, and on and on.
And if he doesn't make everything all better and wonderful, then the Republicans will say he failed and that we should oust all the Democrats.
...Then again I suppose it'd be better than President Palin, who wouldn't be able to properly fix any of those things.
Rasputin @ 89:
Oh, but there's a convenient way to cover this up. You see, the media has been deregulated as well. That means four or five huge international conglomerates, many of which have war profits at stake, also control the media.
So listen as they blather on about "pigs with lipstick" while the elephant quietly sneaks past the party.
You can bet that the public will never be educated why or how this happened, who was to blame, or why they're paying for it.
They will, however, be keenly aware that Obama doesn't wear a flag pin. It's no mistake. It's part of the plan. And it's working.
AnotherJohn @ 93:
Obama can make significant progress starting us in the right direction.
*
It's time to do a deal. Wall Street wants a bail-out. Fine: but we get universal health care FIRST.
IdiotShrub @ 71:
You're an idiot. Even if the housing market bottoms out that house/land is STILL WORTH SOMETHING. Someone will want it, someone can lend against it. You sell it, and you're DUMB. It's an asset. Even if it is worth 1 dollar. It has value, where as while RENTING, put that money in a trash bin and BURN IT, there is nothing left for YOU. Yeah you have real good logic there. Try to come to the real world.
AnotherJohn @ 93:
They will say that even if he manages to fix everything. Hell, it'll be his fault even if he loses to the rigged voting machines. And just like always, the Democrats will bend over and spread 'em. They are playing 'good cop/bad cop' with us, and for the most part, we don't care.
Doing nothing will cost a lot more than 1 - 2 trillion. Read about any extensive recession and you'll always end up thinking why didn't someone do something to get the economy moving. What's a trillion anyway. When I was a kid a soda was a dime. When I bought my first new car it was about three thousand. We have just inched ourselves into the global market and I don't think we should think so small. By the way the effort to globalize the economy began before the Europeans started carting gold from the Americas back to Europe. So, it is going to continue because people want it to! We might just as well decide to encourage it and then make it fair for everyone. We would be much better off if we had rules and then played fair than to always try to screw the works in our favor.
$1-2 Trillion: "New American Century" comes with big price tag, no?
chris [not the troll] @ 98:
He's already being blamed. "Barack Obama is part of the problem in Washington."
-John McCain
Seems 42% of Americans actually believe him too!!
Remember George W. Bush and his 'political capital' after the 2004 WH election?
He wanted to take Social Security and somehow let Wall Street have at it.
G.W.Bush went around trying to talk this idea up but it fizzled and withered away.
Instead what we Americans will now get is Wall Street Social Security Plan where American taxpayers make good on Wall Street funny money sprees and looting.
Have you read of any of the big Wall Street players,gamers or ponzi fiscal device schemers being arrested,indicted or brought under severe legal duress?
No? Me neither.
One to two trillion dollars into this? No arrests? No indictments? Just bail outs?
This must be the 'compassionate conservatisim' we were told about.
How about this idea? Wall Street now will share the profits it grabs off this so called "free market capitalism" with the rest of America and put it towards the new and much improved Single Payer American HealthCare System?
With Wall Street so eager to share it's red ink with American taxpayers it can also share Wall Street obscene profit making/taking too.
Socialism for Wall Street? Ok. Fine.
Now help out Americans who are in dire need of a civilized ,socialized health care/medical risk coverage single payer system.
Is this bail out necessary?
Of course it is.
The day a major Wall Street player can't afford a string of hookers and the caviar to smear them in...well, that's the day I stop calling myself an American.
Loosely Twisted @ 97:
LOL!
If we take your extreme "1 dollar example" and assume that your home is worth 1 dollar, it would be insanely stupid to keep paying on a $400k mortgage because when you go to sell, you are only going to get 1 dollar. If you want to make money on a home (or any investment) you have to buy low and sell high.
If you don't yet own a home, you are better off renting and saving w/ inflation protection investments (gold,silver,etc) in todays environment and waiting for the overpriced home values to bottom out. If you can still find a mortgage that is cheaper from month to month than rent, then it MIGHT make sense to buy even with home values falling. When you do the math you should also figure in the other expenses that are typically rolled into rent (taxes, maintenance etc.)
If you already own a home and you owe more than it is worth, then you have to decide if it makes sense to continue to pay or walk away (send the keys to the bank).
Keep in mind, your assets are only worth what the market says they are worth when it comes time to sell. It doesn't matter what you think it is worth or what you paid for it. Someone else is going to be spending money for your asset(s) and they aren't going to want to over pay.
The sun is rising in Michigan once again. I had my doubts.
The Republicans have now given us Big Government beyond our wildest dreams, the word might better be nightmares.
Do these people know how to run a railroad? The Poverty Train Central.
Anonymous Source @ 25:
He can do it, I don't believe he'd be running if he didn't think he could. Oh, it'll be the toughest thing he's ever done and he will have to sit down with hundreds of economists to get it right. It'll be a tough time no doubt, but at least it should stabilize and we can start digging up again.
shootthatarrow @ 102:
Think about it, our SS money would have been used to bail out these failed ventures and they would have left us high and dry. Stopping them on this one was the only success of the American people in the last 8 years.
A song for the new depression:
Once I built a railroad, made it run.
Made it run against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's gone.
Brother, can you spare a Trillion Dollars?
Exhibit A ladies & gentlemen...
Why neo-feudalism, aka 'free market' supply side BS - is 100% magic dust....
Con-servatives can't point to a single time in history when it has worked out for the majority of the people (you know the ones they claim their economic policies 'help' the most)...
This should be the final nail in the coffin, after 1929, 1987, & 2008...how many depressions will it take??? I know the corporate media is in the bag spinning this stuff...but can't most Americans see with their own 'lying' eyes that this con-servative 'economic philosophy' is worth less than navel lint???
the problem with the american economy is middle and upper management.
they do nothing
yet they pay themselves handsomly
they live in 1/2 million dollar homes and drive expensive cars
yet they produce nothing
they go to meetings and talk alot and yak yak yak all day.
they are the welfare of america...
what? they have an MBA....give them $50thousand more dollars...they
have become more valuable lackeys.
before some troll comes and 'corrects' me....1987 - crash, not depression but it might as well have been one...
$1-2 Trillion? That's an outrage! We could have bought another bloody war with that kind of money.
Loosely Twisted @ 97:
It seems to me that you missed the first few classes in common sense. Re-read your post and see if what you are saying actually makes sense. Why would you want to be paying good money on an over-priced, depreciating asset? Hello?! Especially when you can rent a comparable of much nicer home that you currently "own", for a fraction of what you are paying on a mortgage (pssst! Let me tell you a little secret: You don't actually "own" it until the very last nickel is paid to the bank. But don't spread it to your friends because the banks won't like that). Rent a nice home and invest the difference in savings elsewhere. Plus, no more staring at the ceiling at night. Simple. End of story.
2 trillion may be a drop in the bucket.
i don't think you can pin all this on ARM's and poor fooks defaulting on mortages.
its about the banks trading fookun air, the derivatives "market " is coming home to roost and nobody is going to make it stop......... anytime the private bank controls the money supply the serfs are in for a great ass fookun.........
Does anyone know if it’s true that they’re going to use Social Security funds to bail out AIG?
That’s what I heard today.
-----------------
Every dime the government takes in, it spends. Excess Social Secuity taxes are spent. The federal government has a 2 trillion dollar debt to Social Security.
The FDIC talks of having 53 billion dollars. The FDIC has no money. The premiums the banks have paid, have all been turned over to the treasury and congress has spent the money. Thus, the government has to borrow money every time a bank fails, so that the FDIC can pay depositors.
Social Security money has been spent by the government on all sorts of things over the years.
The main problem is the war machine. Every single year it sucks almost 1/2 the gov't budget down the tubes, and it's been doing this for decades and decades. The USA must renounce its empire and fix itself, or face immediate economic devastation.
There is no greater proof that the policies of "trickle down" and "free market deregulation" economics is a failure than what we see going on right now.
Ronald Reagan was a Jackass and a shill for Wallstreet and the "economic dictatorship" that Truman saw in the great in the great depression.
Let's see if the American people really are smart enough to figure out who is hitting them over the head.
http://www.buzzflash.com/editorial/05/01/edi05006.html
Reader John writes:
How many times do we have to hear:
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security.
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare.
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans.
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes.
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war.
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to rescue "no child left behind".
BUT...
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns.
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG.
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war.
When the LITTLE GUY needs help, they scornfully say, "GET A JOB!"
But when one of their BIG GUY CRONIES need a bailout, what do they say? SURE, NO PROBLEM. Where's the checkbook?
"But what about the debt we're leaving on the backs of our childen and their future?"
"Children? WHOSE Children? OUR children won't have to pay for this. YOUR children will."
The Republicans have had their hands in our pockets for well over 8 years.
Now they are robbing us blind IN BROAD DAYLIGHT and smiling about it!!!!
The Republicans have shown their true colors and now they expect us to vote them back into office?
What's next? Should we bend over and spread 'em? Oh, I'm sorry, but we've ALREADY DONE THAT!!
SEVERAL TIMES!!!
__________________________________________________________________
This is an earmark that is flying under the radar, it doesn't need the approval of Congress or the W.H. So, where is Sarah Palin's "thanks, but no thanks" to Congress.
We're circling the rim here and well on our way to an end to the American way of life. We've turned into an importer nation. We don't make enough or grow enough to take care of the essentials of living. Any job that could be done cheaper has been shipped overseas. The major industries have become Finance, Healthcare, and Insurance and now, all of them are sinking fast. This is the legacy of the Free-For-All market so embraced by the rabid social conservatives and their hirelings, the Republicans.
Letterman's right, we're so screwed!
There really isn't anything not to understand. In fact it is very simple. A do nothing Congress who were more than comfortable with their hands out waiting for banking lobbying interests to grease their palms took the money and ran off with it while the brakes were applied to banking regulators who knew the system would go up in smoke.
As the President just stated again in very simple terms that all can fully understand. We the government allowed the system to be broken which will eventually cost trillions to fix, and you the American tax payer will be burdened for the rest of your lives paying for it as will your children and grandchildren and their great grandchildren.
But not to worry, I'll bet you anything that their will be another tax rebate check in the mail before the end of the year, so that all of us will be able to do our part to enjoy the holidays and to add insult to injury, not one person will ever go to jail for thier lack of feduciary responsibility either on Wall Street or in D.C.
That's how the system works. We vote for idiots, they steal you blind and when the system crashes as it it now, those idiots in D.C. point the finger at everyone but themselves and we the scum of the earth tax payer get the golden goose egg by having to have our taxes raised so as to bail out these scumbags. regardless of which candidate gets into office, your taxes are going up. But we the American people never learn and vote them in anyway. How many time do we have to get it up the ass before we realize we've been taken to the cleaners again?
Come next april 15th, we the people should send a very clear message to congress. We're not paying our hard earned tax dollars to you until you pay us back for all your fuck ups and clean up your act. Period. Go ahead, put us all in prison and then let the second revolution begin!
I feel sick to my stomach over this whole thing. But, hey! At least the markets are way up again, so the rich are happy! And isn't that what Capitalistic government is all about--privatizing the profit and socializing the losses (check out Nouriel Roubini on this)? Funny thing is, about half this country apparently sees no problem with this at all, and is actively supporting one of the primary proponents of this type of economic "management" in his bid to continue privatizing profits for the rich at the expense of the rest of us. Don't be fooled by these desperate attempts to restore stability. It's not for my sake or yours. It's because history shows that the Gilded Age lead to the Great Depression, which lead to the the sweeping social reforms in United States history (the New Deal). These guys who orchestrated the second Gilded Age are terrified that a new depression might lead to reforms that would undermine their efforts to steal from the taxpayer trough and they simply can't have that. They don't want a depression because of the possible implications to them, not because of what it would do to the country.
In trillions, I'd like someone to take complete stock of the economy (and this time, don't leave out the costs of the wars we're fighting) and let us know how much the Bush Administration cost this country and, in consequence, what the bill is to each of us as taxpayers.
9/19/09 (Reuters) The federal government is now bailing out compulsive gamblers in Las Vegas, Reno, Atlantic City, and elsewhere. Anyone who has lost $1000 or more gambling in U.S. casinos may apply for a full refund at taxpayer expense, by writing to:
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson
Department of the Treasury
1500 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20220
Include a copy of your income tax returns as proof of your gambling losses, and the treasury will issue you equal compensation withing 6-8 weeks. The refund program does not apply to offshore gambling, Internet gambling, and losses at casinos run on Native American reservations. Details are available at the U.S. Treasury web site at http://www.ustreas.gov/.
Read and puke...
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/dec/15/executivesalaries.executi...
'privatizing the profit and socializing the losses' is a perfect way to describe what's happen.
God forbid there is socialized medicine though.
Christopher Carroll in the RGE Monitor asks, "why does the economy perform so badly under Republican Presidents?"
I'm a simple person, so can only suggest a simple answer: Republicans concentrate an inordinate amount of their attention on a tiny sector of the overall economy--the very wealthy--virtually ignoring everything else. They cling to an oft-disproved belief in "trickling down," (same basic principle appears under multiple discreet names in every Republican administration) apparently unaware that the wealthy don't much like trickling and the rest of can't actually survive on trickles. Their ideology is so intense, they simply can not admit that their plan NEVER works, so they start blaming everyone else when things inevitably go awry. Chris Matthews actually nailed a Republican Congressman recently who--seriously--tried to blame this all on Clinton. No doubt there is plenty of blame to go around in this mess, covering multiple decades, but the bottom line is the crash happened on Bush's watch. Period. And the exorbitant taxpayer bailout, essentially socializing the banking, mortgage and insurance industries, is happening on his watch, too.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/19/news/economy/paulson_plan_cost/index.htm...
Not a huge CNN fan, but the clearest explanation yet of what Paulson is thinking of. And, yes, it sounds as ill thought-out and as subject to potentially disastrous variables as you would expect.
Larry Rafferty @72 said:
"I am not a conspiracy nut, but is all of this economic chaos planned? Do I smell the Feds taking over the financial system entirely? Could the economic recession/depression actually give fodder to those who say that Bush will not leave office, but announce a martial law situation? With all of this money being doled out to keep the economy afloat, what will really fix it? The first fix in my opinion is to make sure McCain and Palin do not win in November. If McCain wins the middle class will be gone in short order."
_______________
I don't know what will happen next, but you are not a nut and most everything about the way our nation has been run for almost a half century has been engineered - by the Bush Crime Family and their partners in crime. Eisenhower tried to warn us about the military -industrial complex - which is really the forerunner of fascism, wherein the corporatists dictate the policies to the government, instead of the other way around. JFK tried to warn us about the folks in the background who were secretly pulling the financial strings, and then he tried to dissolve the Fed and have the Congress re-take control of the currency - they killed him for that.
Since that time, the political elite have pretty much merged into one - even though they pretend it's a "two-party" system -the differences are real hard to find if you look at the legislation and policies the government has put in place, especially since Reagan. Deregulation was just a ploy to start the real theft; free markets, free trade etc. just ensured that the transfer of wealth from the middle class "producers" would start to trickle UP. The Republican Congress in the 90's did their job to continue and enhance these policies, and then Cheney and Bush were installed to seal the deal. Throughout this time, all of these folks have been practicing and honing their skills in myriad countries around the world - using the CIA to foment civil unrest and then manipulating the economies to secure the natural resources and wealth for the corporatists.
The neo-cons were kind enough to supply us with their plan (PNAC) and if any of you read the Shock Doctrine, you will understand that they have now put the
"final solution" into place for America. 9/11 was the shock to scare the masses and get them under control; the Congress implemented the legislation to "legalize" most of the crap related to the wars in the ME and the repression of freedom/civil rights here; the financial sector went about their plan of seducing the public with cheap credit; the media (used to be known as the free press) coalesced into a giant propaganda/entertainment/distraction arm of the Powers that Be; and, now everything was in place for pulling the plug.
So, really what's going on now is just the culmination of the plan to suck every last drop of wealth up for the elites who run the global financial cabal. Right now, they are "bailing out" the banks and other companies with Fed money, soon as things stabilize and the banks and financial institutions are all conglomerated (like the media), they'll start buying up all the hard assets now available due to this collapse at pennies on the dollar. Then they'll own everything and we'll all be sitting here sayin' "wha' happened??" It may still be possible that they'll start up some other distracting conflagration (like in Pakistan or Georgia, or even Iran) so we won't notice the rest of our country being pulled out from under us.
Yeah, I'm a nut and I'm pretty sure if you spend some time reading and studying about our political and financial history for the past 60 years, and the involvement of many of our current political leaders, you'll likely see that it is a conspiracy and it ain't no theory any more.
WAIT A MINUTE...........
BAILOUT by MEANS of a LOAN is NOT so BAD so long as the TAXPAYERS TREASURY is EARNING 11% INTEREST from the LOAN. This ADDED REVENUE to the TAX TREASURY would be ABLE to fund some of NEEDED cost to IMPROVE our NATION's Infrastructures AND social security.
THE challenge is HOW these are going to be ACCOUNTED FOR and HOW to develop a structure has the proper firewall and safety from CORRUPTION.
OUR government is creating an AGENCY that will buy out these bad loans at below wholesale and sell them at wholesale to investors with good credit and sell or rent these foreclosures back into the market at retail to get a return in a profitable return on investments.
This will work to STABLIZE the market and will create alot of jobs.
BUT our GOVERNMENT must NOT stop the effort from coming AFTER those responsible for this mess and HOLD them ACCOUNTABLE and RELINQUISH those billions of dollars STOLEN from the system.
It'll be 5 trillion easy. What do you think would happen if they told us anything close to what it would really cost? Exactly.
Tyler Durden @ 24:
Yep, George Bush and Dick Cheney would never do something they were expressly prohibited from doing.
Let’s get real. Whether or not our Social Security fund is currently intact or not is immaterial. It’s as good as gone. The Bush administration, using the now all too familiar Lehman Bros/Merrill Lynch/AIG model, has mortgaged our future – the future we citizens are entitled to and have paid for up front no less – many times over. They needed a whole lotta cash, no questions asked, and fast. Georgie and Dick had elections to buy, oil wars to wage and an endless multitude of campaign contributors to spiff.
If they had only pulled the plug then and there, Bush & friends would have caused grievous harm. Instead, predictably, they “stayed the course.” With each successive mortgage, the Bush administration willfully exaggerated the value of all available security (including the “lock box”) beyond its actual monetary worth. Probably threw in a few threats for good measure: “Give us more money or we’ll never pay you back a dime.” That’s how they roll.
When those notes will come due, and they will, the American people will be stuck with humungous payments bordering on the usurious. Our cash-strapped government will be compelled to make unprecedented cuts to vital social services just to cover the vig. We could always sell naming rights to our most cherished national monuments. How’s ‘bout the ICBC Statue of Liberty or the Jefferson Memorial brought to you by Dubai Holdings?
Long before that day, we could face a classic Hobson’s choice.
We may find ourselves forced to choose between yet another desperate attempt to save this country’s foundering financial system and “bennies for old folks.” This “choice” is really no choice at all. AARP or no AARP, the banks and big business will win the day. Every. Single. Time. No matter. Social Security benefits are absolutely worthless in an America without a modern economy, a banking system, a minimum of subsistence-level jobs, some sort of health insurance formula, organized education (if solely to train medical types), government regulatory entities et al.
Should this tragic day come to pass, we will suck it hard like the good little citizens we are. (I don’t know about you but I’m not quite the ”suck it” type). Still we dare not give voice to our rage lest it queer the entire decidedly unstable scheme. You think it’s bad now? In this future, failure would leave us nothing. Nada. Zippo. 没有什么东西. Zilch. Despite such Herculean efforts, collective sacrifices and great gnashing of teeth, we cannot be guaranteed a successful result.
Here's a snapshot of our post-economic apocalypse American landscape:
“Look Grams. You know I love you. Hey, we all love you. Bunches and bunches. So I’m really, really, really sorry. We tried our very hardest. Even with all those deeply humiliating acts of prostitution, our entire monthly gross firewood sales and much spinning of wool, the most we can afford is the finest in back-alley gall bladder surgery. That’s with the whole family eating nothing but krill wafers and cellulose patties for months on end too. Since we hadda eat the horse last month, you’re gonna have to get there on your own. Grams, hang in there, OK? We’ll see you next week after your surgery…I hope.”
On the opposite side of this spectrum, the anointed ones who came to be known as the “Bush-Cheneys” never feel the slightest pinch. In fact, they are considerably better off than at any time previous. These perpetually pampered Bush-Cheneys shuttle betwixt various Halliburton-built and Blackwater-protected bubble fortress-cities strewn about the world. Except for minor concerns (like the inevitable scourge of in-breeding), they have nary a care in the world. What’s amazing is the unbelievable ease in which they obtained their increased affluence.
For when U.S. markets stabilized after 9/11, Bush-Cheney clan leaders flipped every last one of their dollars for euros.
That’s all it took.
And to think that my older sister used to tease me with: “The trouble with you, Anacher, is that you have no imagination.”
Because this could never possibly happen, right?
-AF
How sad all of this has turned out if what we're hearing about this bailout is true. We elect politicians to do the peoples work in Washington and after they get there they are bought off by big money interests who are more interested in saving their own skin than that of the American people.
Five million home in foreclosure or default, unemployment rising, the cost of everything going through the roof and the president informs us today that hundreds of billions are going to be required to fix the problem. and by the way you Mr. and Mrs America are going to be funding the bailout. Maybe after the dust settles it will be more like trillions as the government has a habit of low balling initial figures anyway. That is when their not lying about them.
The dollar dropped like a rock today and it finds itself in the high 77 range from 80 and yet the PPT clobbers gold and silver which are real money. If that isn't manipulation nothing is even when the price of oil continues to rise. After all you have to keep hitting the tax payer more and more because the entity that makes the most profit on a barrel of oil is the US government in taxes collected at the pump.
It will make no difference who is elected this year as either candidate will have no other option but to raise taxes. I having nothing against a nation taxing its people. I do however, take exception with how my government spends that money. Not on education, health care or infrastructure improvements, but on bailing out an old boys club whose middle name is GREED and d*** everyone and everything else.
The system is broken and so is government if this is what we have come to. Jefferson was right and we the people let them continue to get away with it.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.....Thomas Jefferson
So, if I as a taxpayer just bought AIG, where are my shares in said company?
From this point on, *I* want in on any profits of my new company.
Send me the stock and if our new company ever make money, that'll be an economic stimulus.
If some rich fuck-hole buys this company, he should not be allowed to make money at my expense.
I WANT MY STOCK!
E Pleb Neesta
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