Anti-Republican protesters facing terrorism charges in St. Paul
MSNBC carried this report yesterday about the eight anti-Republican protesters facing terrorism charges in Minnesota, including an interview with one of the two women charged.
The Minnesota Post has a rundown of the case, which involves an anti-terrorism law passed by Minnesota in 2002:
"The language [of the law] clearly covers these kinds of allegations," Gaertner said. "Whether or not that is what the Legislature meant to do is much less clear. It's not completely unusual for the Legislature to pass a law and then, when it plays out in real life situations, that there might be a question about what the reach of the law should be."
So Minnesota must decide, while the nation watches, where to draw the line between terrorism and political protest that threatens to break laws.
"There is peaceful protest and criminal protest," said Nathan Sales, a law professor at George Mason University in Virginia and an expert on the federal PATRIOT Act. "Even the criminal protests seem to be pretty far removed from our common-sense understanding of what terrorism is."
All of these protesters were arrested in local authorities' preemptive raids on protester headquarters. The problem, as those who were paying attention (as well as those who were present) last summer noted, was that most of these preemptive arrests involved people possessing ordinary, everyday items that might conceivably be used in a criminal attack -- but which police had no evidence they either intended to use or were preparing to use. As the Minnesota Post story explains:
In raids on the group's hangouts, authorities seized PVC piping, paint, bleach, marbles and slingshots, bricks and cement blocks, gas masks, bolt cutters, firecrackers, empty glass bottles, flammable liquids, rags, etc. You get the idea. Items that made virtually every news report were containers of urine and feces.
Authorities allege that the mundane items were homemade ingredients for dangerous weapons such as Molotov cocktails and missiles that could be dropped from freeway overpasses.
Those charged and now free on bail range in age from 19 to 33. They are Monica Bicking, Erik Oseland, Robert Czernik, Garrett Fitzgerald, Nathanael Secor, Luce Guillen-Givins, Eryn Trimmer and Max Specktor.
Two of the four felony counts each of them faces are terrorism related: conspiracy to commit riot in the second degree in furtherance of terrorism and conspiracy to commit criminal damage to property in furtherance of terrorism. Both are punishable by up to five years in prison and/or $10,000 fines. Further, state law allows terrorism-related sentences to be expanded by 50 percent.
You may recall that the behavior of St. Paul authorities bordered on what you might find in a police state: They arrested reporters and photographers without cause (including Amy Goodman), gassed docile crowds, and in general were role models in police brutality.
But the preemptive raids were especially noxious, because the cases against them are straight out of Brazil. They were concocted by an overambitious Republican prosecutor, and built out of trumped-up charges.
The "RNC Eight", as they call themselves, have a support page you can check out.
Were not things seized, but a list of items to seize if found.
It was a deliberate miscommunication and error on the part of the police and the media.
When was the last time PETA blew up a federal building killing scores of Americans?
the 20,000 dead pets in their large walk in freezer in their HQ building.
PETA needs to get off their high horse and actually rescue animals.
Before I'm attacked, I'm a liberal and a dog lover...OWNER!! I'm a dog owner. PETA's a joke.
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lemon juice, malt vinegar or tartar sauce mmmmmm
But please tell me how it is right for PETA to degrade women and set the feminist movement back (and sometimes endanger lives!) by using women's naked bodies as platforms for their message, simply because of the shock value?
makes me go all shivery and afeared. ;)
and it is counterproductive to their cause IMHO.
So preemptively arresting left-wing protesters armed with marbles and slingshots, while thousands of right-wing militia are stockpiling semi-automatic firearms?
Wow. There's something seriously wrong.
Part of me is happy that they are taking domestic terrorism seriously. Based on what I have seen spewing out of the Right's blogs, we have some very very scary people out there. But as bamboozled noted, these were marbles, where are the raids on the huge caches of automatic weapons that we all know are out there? I think their focus is skewed, and people are going to die as a result.
There's hardly a thing on it you wouldn't find in any kid's bedroom.
Marbles? Firecrackers? Empty glass bottles?
And the gas masks, I reckon, would be to protect themselves from the police's tear gas.
for things that might be found during a search, not things found during the actual search.
If these are legally owned they must have a crap load of money. A cheap full auto smg firing a handgun cartridge starts at about 5k, A full auto ak or ar starts around 10-15 depending on model. The prices go up from there. I've heard of some of the few people that own a legal quad .50 have turned down offers of 250-350k
And for the slingshots, have you had any experience with some of the modern slingshots they make? They can easily split a 2x4 at 10 yrs and can kill a person at 15-25yrs and with practice are accurate enough for hunting small game. And a glass marble from them can be very nasty. If you hit a hard surface they shatter and send shards of glass 5-10 feet with enough force to penetrate skin.
I'd die before that slingshot hit me ;)
and seizing caches of weapons.
charged with conspiracy also.
real quick like.
Somethin rotten in Denmark for sure!
What more fucked up nonsense can we get from Minnesota. We have Coleman, Bachmann now this. It's becoming the Georgia of the north. How much more embarrassing can it get for the rational people in this state? I blame it all on Jesse. They elect an ex-wrestler as a governor and all hell breaks lose.
To the rational people in Minnesota, I feel for you, I had Rick Santorum representing me. To all the rest of you in that state, FUCK YOU!
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His days are numbered, and his date with the ethics investigation is due.
They know he lost. The RNCC/GOP/RNC needs him to take it to the Supreme Court. 59-41 when they seat Franken. We need one vote and they can't lose it. They suck, they're really really bad. They just don't know when to quit.
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fun to go watch at the wrassling match, especially when he did the pose down with The Crusher one time...The Crusher beat him with the "TWO KEG POSE" LOL
You betcha. And people wondered that I didn't think Al Franken was a good fit for the Democratic candidate when, in fact, he won by a glorious landslide and is pushing legislation through the senate as we speak. What? Oh, never mind.
No, forget much about what you've thought about Minnesota over the last 30+ years. The Republicans have been quite successful at destroying much of our infrastructure and ideals. I don't blame it on Jesse. A bit of a drama queen and a self-promoter but you have to realize that without the Republicans or Democrats he couldn't get much accomplished -- which can be both good and bad when you talk about government.
even regular Americans who want to dissent, and NOT engage in 'terroristic' behavior. get a grip, GOP, and calm the frig down already. you are so unhinged about so many things you are losing sight of whats important: figuring out what being conservative and Republican mean anymore and going and following those ideas and winning elections. dont just be anti-Obama all the time and disagree with everything hes done and make up stuff about him. get a grip and realize that a lot of your problems were caused by your own inabilities to govern and sell sound policies to the electorate. if youd been doing a great job you wouldnt have lost two consecutive elections in a resounding fashion. go look at some of Buckley's last writings before he passed away, as even he knew that the current GOP incarnation couldnt last in its current form with out re-inventing itself competently. start with new leadership too (no, not Michael Steele).
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Breaking_RNC_8_...
They are still being charged with felonies and from what I remember from when this was going on they don't have much in the way of evidence. It would be great to see a full court press in suuport of the accused.
Being FROM Mn myself, I have a hard time believing any of this will go through, it just isn't like them at all.
And when it gets to court, the BS rest will be dropped too.
for a bit of good news.
If Minnesota can't handle this, then it's game over. This will spread like fire.
But theres still a large selfish GOP contingent living north of the cites, and they are true fascists, fighting a rear guard action with the help of Pawlenty, Coleman and Bachmann etc.
Their days are numbered tho, the depression and the meltdown is impoverishing them and depleting their base.
This Mc Carthyite fire needs to be extinguished now. It is everyone's right in America to protest peacefully---even the anti abortionists that picket places like Planned Parenthood.
I have had enough of this blatant hypocrisy that these paranoid control freaks are speading. Charging peaceful protesters with terrorism with the filmsy ass evidence they have? What utter bullshit. What the hell is this, the Soviet fucking Union?
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Which convention was the the worst for 'policing' is moot.
At least in St. Pauls we didn't have a militia sniper team wandering around, to be arrested, confess to trying, then released with no charges by the AG.
these people are being charged as terrorist? Seems fitting. In our times dissent is looked upon as terrorism or unpatriotic. This is just obscene. If Glenn Beck wants a revolution this is a good starting point. Charging kids with a belief as being terrorist. I miss my country.
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Terrorism? Unreal.
The fact that those protesters still have charges against them sickens me.
They were planning to protest, but got arrested before they did...
So what did they do wrong really, possession of google maps and some leaflets, an illegal gathering of more than two people in a martial law zone !!!!
Thought crime !?
One must not disagree or voice an opinion ... no rocking the boat, comrades!
complaining about? Oreilly and Beck and Limbaugh voicing their opinions?
Faux is like a broken clock with only one hand, they might get it right once a day, the majority of times they fail.
PS; And their lies, and promotion of terrorism and stupidity.
acts of violence, then it goes beyond simply voicing their dumb ass opinions. And you know it dude.
them? Conspiracy to incite a riot wasn't it. And in my opinion they are not inciting people to commit violence. In fact they are promoting peaceful protest, or do you consider mailing tea tags to your congressmen and governors inciting violence? They are voicing their opinion. Or do you mean inciting violence sorta like taking bus loads of protesters to the houses of people who have received death threats.
Just the Bush Doctrine applied at home.
Welcome to the revolution.
I guess many of us didn't get the memo!
Is pretty revolting alright.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
protest. They were charged with conspiracy to incite a riot. I'm guessing that the police had a bit more than some leaflets. But without having access to the evidence I can't say one way or another.
what this law means:
if you are not republican, then you are a terrorist
and unamerican.
if you are a republican, you can commit unlimited
crimes against U S citizens, the USA and shoot all the
police you want......you are a saint in the repigs eyes.
If rags, bottles and flammable liquids are proof of intent to commit terrorism, then everyone in America who owns a garage is a terrorist.
I recall that right after 9/11, when states and cities were passing laws like this, a councilman in Portland wanted to define blocking streets to protest an act of terrorism. I'm not sure if he got reelected.
The 'items' were not things seized, but a list of items to seize if found. It was police miscommunication to Faux and the poodle media.
Xtain Repug Faux viewers consider all dissent and protest as satanic.
I casually mentioned the fun and games in London to a work colleague, with the caveat that Londoners have been doing it for hundreds of years and its a (serious) game to some, and got the full bore Faux reply as to anarchists and evil anti law and order types, who don't respect gov and property.
Among avid marble collectors like myself, repug gathering are considered a gold mine.
They seem to be always losing them.
Why hasn't some official with common sense dropped these damn charges? We've got people running around with FIREARMS, and MN is worried about protesters?!? WTF?!?
NOBODY 2012
Socialists!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/09/spen...
How did I know when I saw the headline this numnut was going to be a southern Republican? My guess is there are at least as many fascists in the House than there are socialists.
What about the terrorist who killed 4500 Americans and countless Iraqi civilians? Guess the "Patriot Act" doesn't apply to the folks who, you know, actually launched a terrorist attack and killed people?. This Act was meant in part to silence dissent.
and quickly dusted off and touched up, not read, then voted in by 99%.
Sen. Wellstone who was not going to vote for it was threatened by Cheney of "consequences", then oops a plane crash.
that the only senator to vote against the PA was Wisconsins very own Russ Feingold. But then deeply saddened that the other 99 voted for it. :\
I was in the area when some of this went down and even from what you can see from the tapes none of it was even remotely close to terrorism. Out of hand just a little yeah, (nothing compared to some of the officers that went into thug mode though) but charging them with terrorism just steps into a whole other realm. The T word is not something that should be thrown around so lightly.
Funny how the vocal gun nuts, oh so hell bent in defending freedom and protection... all of them seem to be missing.
LOL.
I just finished reading the comments and some of the links I was waiting till I read them all to comment
Doin a fiiiiine job too.
I'm also against the national patriot act. I don't know enough about the MN version to make a accurate judgment but from the sound I don't think its very well worded at the minimum. As for dropping the regular conspiracy charges I don't know enough about the case or the evidence. And all I can find on it is that the police found smoke bombs, sling shots, bolt cutters, bottles of vinegar, buckets of nails, two-way radios and other items. No clue on what other info they have. Of which I have most if not all of the listed items.
They police/FBI/SS released a list of things to the media.
The media 'mistakenly' reported on the official search list, as things found.
'official search list' = things to LOOK for when doing a search.
but it doesn't appear to gettin through...
for your stamina in the face of ignorance. :)
http://twincities.indymedia.org/2009/mar/key-...
A paltry $50 fine on one person.
http://twincities.indymedia.org/2009/mar/rnc-...
How many millions did the repression of dissent and protest, cost the taxpayer in MN !?
Denver, three or more people running around with scoped sniper rifles.
They confess to wanting to kill Obama.
St. Pauls,
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/9/10/...
which stated that those were the items found. If you read the list quite a few of the objects on the search warrant were not listed. I'll see if I can find the link again since I closed it after posting. But from your link here is the list they report. "items such as glass bottles, charcoal lighter, nails, a rusty machete, and two hatchets" which may or may not be a complete list of items seized
And if what they say about the 3 people in Denver is true, yes they should of been charged. But I'm sure they were charged with a variety of other crimes.
.
Protesters = TERRORISTS?
THAT is not my America.
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
whoo hooo! i'm a terrorist!
i'm just loaded with marbles and paint cans 'n' stuff...my garage and kid's rooms are dr. evil's lair! come and get me coppers!
Marbles ARE dangerous! Remember Animal House? "May I have 10,000 marbles, please?"
This is just what we all predicted when the patriot act was rolled out.
Terrorism is being used as a tool to abuse police powers. Ordinary people are being charged with "terrorism" for doing things that used to just be a misdemeanor. . . no wait. . they are being charged with terrorism for LOOKING like they MIGHT do something that used to be a misdemeanor.
Damn. .
people are being arrested for what you used to be able to do with a gilbert chemistry set for pre-teens that was sold in the 60's- 70's.
it's gone beyond stupidity. what with the tsa and their cavity searches for explosive bars of mini soap and the like.
quite frankly, as a trained chemist, i can make just about anything burn or explode. there are hundreds of thousands like me. paint, cleansers, stones, you name it all fodder for fear under the patriot act.
the patriot act must be repealed because it's repealed common sense and replaced it with unbridled paranoia..
if they start charging people as terrorists for protesting that is a scary thought. I can see if they found plans or had further evidence to charge them so harshly. I'm sure we are not getting the whole story here, I mean there are dangerous people on both ends left and right.
Marbles and nails could be used in a claymor mine. Very nasty stuff.
The word "terrorists" has been hijacked to label anyone. The simplest definition "some one who causes terror" most certainly includes the US so another definition is created "an enemy (perceived or real) of the United States". It has all the emotion conjured by the original meaning but is way more flexible in application.
If ever there was an example of 1984 coming to true it is in the word "terrosim".
was terrorist under the wide definition. Maybe we can find some crypto-Democrat appointee to hang it all on.
Surely they have the means and motive (esp. if they are on commission)to aid and abet terrorists...and homeowners, and handymen everywhere. BTW, everybody knows that left wing terrorists hate guns so much, the search order won't even include them. I would be ROFLMAO if it weren't such a miscarriage of justice. It might be time to stage a laugh in at the prosecutor's office (but no balloons, as they are well-known weapons delivery systems).
What was the name of that futuristic movie made several years ago about the "cops" who arrested people for the crimes they had not yet but would commit.
If you are a liar you believe everyone else lies. If you are a thief you believe everyone else steals. If you are a republican you believe everyone else is evil.
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