Beck, Cavuto promote militia-movement 'constitutionalist' theories on Fox
By David Neiwert Saturday May 16, 2009 10:00am
Now that it's embraced its inner right-wing populist by sponsoring all those 'Tea Parties,' Fox News is going straight for the moonshine by promoting "state sovereignty" advocates who, as we mentioned yesterday, are the "Patriot" movement activists who were promoting militias in the 1990s.
Glenn Beck featured an entire hour devoted to the subject yesterday, while Neil Cavuto warmed up the subject for him by featuring a segment on the subject as well. And both of them featured people who have been heavily involved in promoting "Patriot" belief systems for years.
The most striking, of course, was Beck's hourlong "The Civilest War" program, which early on featured Beck adapting Martin Niemoller's famous "First they came" poem -- about the Nazis and the Holocaust -- to our present-day circumstances:
I think this is the problem. First they came for the banks. I wasn't a banker, I didn't really care. I didn't stand up and say anything. Then they came for the AIG executives. Then they came for the car companies. Until it gets down to you. Most people don't see -- they are coming for you at some point! You're on the list! Everybody's on the list. You may not be rich -- as currently defined.
Because, of course, bailing out failing banks and insurance companies and auto manufacturers is just like rounding up minorities and hauling them away to death camps.
As if that weren't enough bats--t crazy paranoia, much of the rest of the hour was devoted to similarly crazy talk from his participants. A Republican Utah legislator rants about "liberties and freedoms being destroyed" and the "tyranny of the federal government." Another Republican legislator, this time from Texas, talks about how Obama and the Democrats are creating "a socialist state".
Beck also calls upon a right-wing historian named Kevin Gutzman, who even his fellow right-wingers dismiss as a neo-Confederate, obsessed with a misreading of early American history that is like so many other "constitutionalist" interpretations, based on an originalism that would destroy such innovations as the abolition of slavery and women's suffrage (not to mention nearly everything else). [More on that below.]
But everything comes into sharp focus when Beck calls on Gary Marbut -- who Beck describes as the originator of the Montana gun law that inspired all these other legislators. We listen to Marbut's wisdom and absorb his advice in this show; indeed, Beck wraps up by calling on Marbut to tell us "what we've learned."
Marbut, you see, has been a fixture on the far right in Montana for many years. He's never actually been elected to any office at all, though he has run numerous times, because Montanans are all too well aware just how radical a nutcase the guy is.
For instance, Marbut in the 1990s tried organizing Patriot neighborhood watches:
Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association (MSSA), outlined the basics of his plans in an message distributed by the Militia of Montana's e-mail list. He suggested that when "patriots" form groups they shouldn't call themselves gun clubs. Instead they should adopt the label of neighborhood watch. Marbut said this title will not "raise nearly as many red flags" in communities. Neighborhood Watch could also be used for "organizations formed for RKBA [right to keep and bear arms] political-action."
Marbut, a frequent contributor to MOM's e-mail list, didn't stop with just gun issues. He said firearms, along with "communications, organizations, and supply" could also be incorporated into Neighborhood Watch. Within Marbut's concept, being a good neighbor appears to takes on a certain level of survivalist mentality. Marbut urged people to coordinate these activities with the local sheriff. Randy Trochmann, one of the militia's co-founders and the moderator of MOM's e-mail list, said Marbut's suggestions were "good advice."
MSSA has promoted several other interesting ideas over the years. In 1994, MSSA proposed an initiative to revitalize the Montana Recall Act. The act would have allowed voters to "throw the rascals [public officials] out" in Marbut's words. MSSA was trying to recall Sen. Max Baucus because of his support for a ban on certain assault weapons. Later that year, MSSA suggested Montana secede from the United States because the federal government had banned the possession of assault rifles by civilians. In 1995, MSSA supported a resolution that would have legalized "unorganized militias," another term for groups like the Militia of Montana. MSSA's public battle against Baucus returned in 1996 when it ran a full-page advertisement in the Helena Independent Record. The ad featured a picture of a saluting Adolf Hitler with the words "All in favor of 'gun control' raise your right hand" printed underneath. The ad then ridiculed Sen. Baucus, inaccurately comparing his position on gun control to Hitler's and asking readers to "Ban Baucus, Not guns."
Marbut wasn't merely involved in the militias -- he also played footsie with Christian Identity activists:
One of Marbut's columns appeared in the January/February issues of The Jubilee. The Jubilee is a white supremacist newspaper which caters to Christian Identity followers. Christian Identity, based on a racist interpretation of the Bible, holds that Jews are the literal children of Satan, and people of color are subhuman "mud people."
Attributed to the Sierra Times, Marbut's article is about Montana rejecting the Gun Free School Zones Act -- the federal law that made it a criminal offense to travel within 1,000 feet of a school while possessing a firearm. Marbut claims the MSSA drafted a successful bill declaring that the Montana Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms to all law-abiding adults thus exempting them from the federal law. Marbut writes that "the people of Montana remain protected from the silliness of the Congressional act by the intervention of the Montana Legislature." He also said the new law "pulls the rug out from under any would-be federal prosecution."
In February, a column by Marbut was published by the Sierra Times. Based in Nevada, the Sierra Times is the newest project of long-time militia activist J.J. Johnson. In the mid 1990s, Johnson was a regular in militia circles. He was the main force behind the Ohio Unorganized Militia, and, since he is African American, the militia movement uses him to deflect charges of racism.
And he's actively promoted tax-resistance-style jury nullification:
Gary Marbut, founder of the Montana Shooting Sports Association (MSSA) and Republican candidate for Missoula's House District 69, wants people to educate themselves in anti-government ideology. MSSA now includes a link on its website to the Fully Informed Jury Association, along with a note from Marbut saying FIJA is "the last peaceable barrier between innocent gun owners and a tyrannous government." FIJA promotes "jury nullification." The concept says individual jurors can judge, not just the evidence in a court case, but the constitutionality of law. In essence, it allows jurors to ignore laws they don't like, undermining the judicial system. The Militia of Montana has sold videos by FIJA "experts" like anti-Semite Red Beckman of Billings.
Now, as I mentioned, Neil Cavuto featured a segment right before Beck's hourlong show similarly promoting these kinds of theories:
Cavuto's segment featured an interview with Charles Key, an Oklahoma legislator who has been similarly involved with Patriot-movement radicalism since the 1990s.
For instance Key was heavily involved in promoting conspiracy theories in the 1990 that claimed that the federal government was actually behind the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that was in reality perpetrated by an adherent of Patriot movement ideology. He even convened a grand jury to investigate the matter, and when the resulting investigation completely debunked his theory, he denounced it:
The county grand jury orchestrated by a conspiracy-minded former state legislator and the grandfather of two bombing victims has concluded that there was no evidence of a larger conspiracy in the Oklahoma City bombing.
Even before the report was made public in December, former state Rep. Charles Key was attacking the body he helped to create by leading a petition drive, claiming jurors had ignored evidence of a government coverup. The grand jury found no evidence that federal agents had prior knowledge of the plot; that members of a white supremacist compound in eastern Oklahoma were involved; or that two bombs, rather than one, were used — all key conspiracy theories.
The state attorney general and the local district attorney, who both had opposed formation of the grand jury, welcomed the results, as did the grand jury's presiding judge, William Burkett.
As it happens, these activities were underwritten by a rich right-winger who subscribed to the conspiracy theories.
Now, it's one thing to point out the radical origins of these "constitutional theories." But it's also important to understand where they want to take us -- to a radically decentralized form of government that was first suggested in the 1970s by the far-right Posse Comitatus movement.
They essentially argue for a constitutional originalism that would not only end the federal income tax, destroy all civil-rights laws, and demolish the Fed, but would also re-legalize slavery, strip women of the right to vote, and remove the principle of equal protection under the law.
Even the conservative review of Gutzman's book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution, understood this:
His attachment to state sovereignty causes him to misread every signal event of our early history. He believes that the criticism of the Articles of Confederation as inadequate to the needs of the Union—the view advanced by those who desired the very Constitution that is the subject of his Guide—was trumped up. He tells us that the Constitutional Convention was attended by three groups: "monarchists" like Alexander Hamilton, "nationalists" like James Madison, and defenders of "the primary place of the states" in the Union. He then ridiculously declares that the third group won all the decisive arguments at Philadelphia and in the ratification campaign, only to have their authentic constitutionalism betrayed by the authors of The Federalist, the administration of George Washington, the early Congress, and the Supreme Courts of John Jay and John Marshall. In fact, the founders understood the Constitution to be a compact of the American people acting within their states, not a compact of the states as independent peoples or political sovereigns. On behalf of limited self-government, it divided authority between the states and the national government, but it granted states no right of nullification or secession and forbade them to make alliances without the consent of Congress. Asserting "state sovereignty" as Gutzman does would deny the Constitution any authority at all. Readers can be excused for suspecting that he does not actually like the Constitution very much. He is the true heir of the man most unstintingly praised in The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution, the "Virginia philosopher-statesman John Taylor of Caroline," in truth an excitable crank whose turgid tomes on the Constitution are quietly and deservedly moldering on library shelves at our better universities.
* * *
The Supreme Court, especially under John Marshall, is Gutzman's bête noir. Like many self-described conservatives, our author rails against the hunger for power he sees in the justices of the Court. But Gutzman wishes the Court had been more activist, not less so, throughout its history—on behalf of the states, that is, and against the national government. Gutzman's Court would have declared the national bank unconstitutional, made federal navigation laws subordinate to conflicting state laws, ruled against Abraham Lincoln's blockade of Southern ports, and outlawed conscription during World War I.
Like Thomas Woods, the author of the earlier Politically Incorrect Guide to American History (see "Mainly Incorrect," CRB, Spring 2005), Gutzman is a neo-Confederate who resents the course our history has taken since the first day of the Philadelphia Convention. In his potted constitutional history, Lincoln is a villain, Marshall is a scoundrel, The Federalist is guilty of "great confusion about the document," and Madison—Madison!—is an untrustworthy guide to understanding the Constitution. Perhaps all you need to know is that Gutzman wastes two pages arguing that we shouldn't call the Civil War "the Civil War."
And all we need to know about Glenn Beck's "Civilest War" is that it harkens to the right-wing radicals of the 1990s, bidding to revive their toxic nonsense.








Login or Register to post comments.
That just sums up the Fox News agenda perfectly. Imagine changing "they came for the unionists" to "they came for the AIG executives". Or changing "they came for the Jews" to "they came for the big bank executives".
It's pathetic.
imaginary oppression...
whining about imaginary oppression. Lou Dobbs and his Hispanic hate talk, Fox and their Neo-Nazi propaganda and even CNN can only call torture "so called torture". Enhanced interrogation and torture are now in the same league as creationism and evolution.
And it's hard to know what to do to somehow be helpful in this situation with all of the hate talk, and the right's imaginary oppresion...
Beck, his new network and his sheep are all guilty. Truth is they didn't like the way the election went, so they want to encourage some more violence. As if we need it.
They're not bringing ideas to fixing the economy, just ideas to get people hurt and killed. Just ideas for militias and revolts. TREASON.
Maybe we should try a page out of the bushco playbook: The United States is at war. Glenn Beck is committing sedition! Why, oh, why, does Beck hate America?
Brought to you by Fox
Creating sh*t and getting others to clean up their sh*t for them.
*sigh*
If they want to "come for me" by giving me buckets of money with few or no strings attached, I'm all for it.
It's horrible how the Obama Adminstration is attacking the banking industry, the auto industry, and insurance industry with loads of free money, ain't it?
He says everyone is on the list. How can I make sure my name is on it? I don't want to miss out on the dump truck full of money.
Where the hell do think that money comes from? Idiots!
liberals to be put against a firing squad for not supporting the then president enough.
And these guys do a 180, and push their dissent to orders of magnitude larger levels than any liberal group or host ever did... and Obama has only been in office for a few months, and so far he has pretty much continued the policies of the previous president who we were supposed to support through thick and thin.
But I am sure this has nothing to do with racism or racist undercurrents, not at all, no siree bob.
And these are the loons Obama is trying to work with while throwing his liberal base under the bus?
HELL YES!!! I've been wanting them to "come for" me the way they "came for" the banks, AIG, and the car companies for some time now!!! Throw those millions of dollars at me any time now!!
of Pastor Niehmoller's valediction that I cannot bring myself to comment on it any further than to say that we dismiss these fuckers at our peril. These slimy fuckers are the foot-soldiers of CCC (KKK is sooo pass`e): Capitalism, Consumerism, Corporatism.
Speaking of Corporatism: Chiquita Banana hired and armed para-militaries in Columbia to keep "order" in the groves, by which they meant: Keep the Unions out. The paras killed hundreds. Eric Holder beat the rap for Chiquita...
I've been coming to Crooksandliars.com for a while now. I liked the fact that it was attempting to expose Bush crimes. I respect that as I'm one who's calling for indictments of his entire administration.
For the record, Glenn Beck is a tool. He is simply profiting from the patriot movement and co-opting the "Constitutionalists" agenda of restoring liberty in this country. During the last presidential campaign Back was calling for the military to engage these same people he now supposedly supports.
That said. I see a lot of comments be readers on this site who totally ignore or ridicule the message of concern their fellow citizens are sharing with them simply because they are labeled Right-Wing or Republican or Libertarian.
We are in this together whether we like it or not. We are Americans and we need to understand and recognize what is really going on with this criminal government.We have been silently overthrown by GLOBALIST!
Wake up brothers and sisters before it's to late.
thank you. i loved C&L for years, Bill Maher, hated bush before he was President, hated Beck, etc etc etc but now I'm hated.
I can't even watch Bill Maher or MSNBC without being violently offended for ideas I know 100% are right (truth isn't relative)
I hate how you can't listen to what people say, you either have to hate them or love them, it's so polarized and so wrong.
They are Left-Wing and Right-Wing gatekeepers. Propagandist to keep us divided. They let us know little by little what coming down the line. It's done to acclimate us and get us ready for the slaughter.
It's so obvious it's funny to me now. But I also get frustrated that people buy into the complete bull.
Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya.
These guys are ALL CRAZY!
They actually THINK that rights come from God, not the government! Sheesh, who do you think guarantees and protects those rights!?
They are just CRAZY religious people!
They believe that individuals were born with rights, even if they were born 500 years ago! Hello McFly!! The Bill of Rights ain't that OLD!
These crazy Anti-Government people just hate black people and Democrats and like war and torture and facsism.
Natural Rights DON'T EXIST. Natural Law is out-dated.
Welcome to the progressive-era, welcome to a liberal democracy without natural rights. Welcome to the democratic personality!
Gosh golly Bush Jr was evil wasn't he! But President Woodrow Wilson, make the world save for democracy, not that was a Democrat! That was a President !!!!!!!!!!
Rights derive from the primarily human/anthropoid (but dogs and other critters notice 'em too) notions of fairness, equity, and comity that are required for the more-or-less peacable functioning of communities.
I've tried to be sympathetic to these people but they are just so off the rocker.
I've been ridiculed by friends and family for years. Now they come to me for information because they realize I may have been right all along. The writing is no longer on the wall, it's on our face. The establishment deem all of us as their slaves.
They laugh that we quibble as Democrats, Republicans, Libertarian, Independents. We are divided and distracted as our house is being plundered.
"We have been silently overthrown by GLOBALIST!"
You're hanging your lanterns in the church steeple long after the invasion occurred.
"Wake up brothers and sisters before it's to late."
I know you can't choose your family, but I hope I may be forgiven the wish that our relation be as distant as possible...
You may understand the history of the Establishment and their control of the left-Wing and Right-Wing movements. Your team is also controlled as are the Republicans. That's truth whether you like it or not.
I hope your truly paying attention the situation we are in. That's all I have to say to you. I wish you the best.
Rahm Emmnauel, one of the original architects of NAFTA, supported free trade agreements with Colombia, South Korea and Panama.
He wanted to get these passed while he had more Republican votes in the Congress before the election.
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/200809381...
Now watch Bush threaten Congress to pass the Colombia Free Trade Agreement right before leaving office - www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONoP4lSigro
Ridicule me this Mr. Genius, if both Bush and the Obama administrations support Economic Integration, how is that CHANGE?
Step 1- GATT, Step 2- NAFTA, Step 3- SPP
Guess what step 5 is? I give ya a hint, a financial crisis would help give Obama and Emmanuel the "opportunity" to reach it
oh nevermind, I'm wrong.
Rahm Emmanuel's ties to the Mossad seems is extremely troubling to me. I don't like his policies and I don't trust him one iota.
until someone blows up a building
this is the unsophisticated version of the wallStreet malitia. these people get off blaming the government for everything. should the government shoulder some blame? of course but for me it starts with wallStreet,financial elites and special interests. these are the groups that don't want the government to shine at anything they attempt. these people love to be told obama or who ever is going to take their guns and bibles away. these people want to battle with somebody...anybody. they're told dems/liberals hate the country and freedom. then the next day the march against peoples rights regarding same sex marriage and/or abortion. NOW they're in a bind/conundrum since the BUSH administration basically laughed at the constitution and expanded the government times two. why? all for the capitalists global empire. they will try to get these people buzzing about how bad "socialized" medicine will be. for BECK this is more of the same engaging with the conservative base/evangelical and maybe some certain libertarians. i believe there are forgeting to look at wallStreet/lobbyists more.
Seems to me that with all this anti-government, anti-American, pro-violence against America talk, even a first year law student could find at least a technical violation of the Patriot Act in all this, if not an actual criminal violation. I hope the DOJ is paying attention.
In fact it destroys most of your rights if you are deemed by a secret source as a terrorist. Be careful what you wish for.
If you are Anti War you are a potential terrorist as well. Even Vegans are labeled potentials by the Feds.
Soon enough, we will all be labeled.. Get it?
I'm already labelled; queer, you know.
But since we seem to be stuck with it, and nobody in power seems in a rush to repeal it, why not use the Patriot Act against those who brought it to us in the first place? It would certainly be ironic.
I am sick of the whimps on Faux News promoted hatred, anger, and ignorance. I wish all Dems and Lefties would boycott the rightwing organizatons, yet they keep trotting into his lairs, while they keep slimeing us. Look at the article about school shootings the Washington Times did the other day, with the Obama daughters pictured. This is just craziness.
craziness is what the fringe-dwelling right specializes in.
Palin's already up there...
Win-Win
Let's NOT let the bastards have the South or anything else -- food, water, beer, or guns.
So if the Government has no business doing anything beyond what is strictly in the constitution, does that mean:
- no standing army?
- no federal intelligence or law enforcement agencies?
- no federal regulation or inspection of food?
- no national environmental laws? No Clean Air Act or Clean Water Act?
- no FDA? no drug testing?
- no securities laws or insider-trading enforcement?
- no federal funding for cancer research? no National Institutes of Health? no national tobacco laws? no Head Start?
- and on and on . . .
Or are these vital functions only allowed to be enacted by states at their whim? What sense does it make to have 50 state drug-testing organizations?
Months ago there was a lot of enthusiasm on C&L for Ron Paul and his libertarian agenda. Guess what folks, these states-rights militant fascists are talking the same game Ron Paul did.
...yet disapproves of Organics foods because of isolated incident where less than a dozen people fall ill. I wonder why. They are legislating on this issue as we speak.
Does it seem to you that the FDA backs corporate food and drug sources more than local and independent food sources or alternative medicines? Where is our right to choose for ourselves what we put into our own bodies?
The Federal government is raiding food co-ops for Gos's sake. This is just one example of why the Federal government does not need to be involved. Corruption at that level can ruin an entire country.
of 320 MILLION souls cannot be JUSTLY "governed" except by a huge, multi-level, integrated bureaucracy...
This one's pretty fucked up at the moment, thanks to 30 or so years of psychotic kleptocracy.
But you're insane if you believe anything as complex as the USofA can be run like a food co-op.
Choice is about freedom and self determination right? That's what I'm saying.
Federal laws are overreaching and extreme and most are written by the very corporations who would profit from the legislature they back with political funding. The system is bought out and your voice doesn't matter to them.
David Aaron Kessler 11/1990 - 2/1997 was probably the most active FDA Commissioner as re fighting big business. He wanted cigarettes classed as a drug (because they are), which led to the case FDA v Brown and Williamson. Of course the Supremes came down on the side of B&W.
He was just on the Colbert report to promote his new book on Americans' overeating habits.
"This is just one example of why the Federal government does not need to be involved."
Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Teddy Roosevelt introduced the Pure Food laws in 1906 because thousands of Americans had been killed from ingesting tainted meat and toxic, bogus patent medicines.
Food and medicine production to that time was totally unregulated. The result was a disaster.
Read some history, for God's sake. You're just ignorant.
it is like trying to conduct a debate with a wall. The main difference being that the wall actually performs an useful function...
And they don't talk when you're talking.
*
Have you heard of the Factor 8 scandal or the fact that they sent vaccines with two lives avian flu viruses to 18 different countries recently?
The FDA allows Baxter stay in business. And now they are going to make a vaccine for the swine flu.
Will you take it? The FDA says they are a reputable pharmaceutical.
I can assure you that enthusiasm was not shared by the writers, contributors or editors here.
it was a small persistent annoying group of Paulbots, who made some of the threads unapproachable during their time. Thank whoever, for the most part, they slumber...
Someone has to defend your freakin rights. You all seem to be willing to give them away so easily. It's disgusting.
My family escaped from a tryanny in Cuba and now I see one rising in front of my eyes here. It's a shame that there are so many apathetic souls in the United States of America.
Ok...mr 'tyranny in cuba.' Judge my life and political outlook on one statement post here, and accuse me of 'giving away' my rights because I don't agree with you.
You learned 'tyranny' really well in cuba, because you are practicing it on me right now, fool.
You have no part in defending my rights, if your 2-3 posts I've read here are anything to go by.
As for just seeing tyranny rise in the US, I guess you missed 1980-now.
and I'm not [your] friend, you condescending creep.
...vote rigging, phone taps, obstruction of justice, torture, indefinite detention, confiscate your property and much much more. Trust me, I'm paying attention.
You think Ron Paul supporters are a small group. We are in the millions and we are vigilant. Slumber.. think again.
I'm am a Ron Paul supporter because his 30 year record in the House has shown he can be trusted. Most people here trust a man whose voting record in his own state and Senate have been the antitheses of what this nation was founded upon and should be upholding.
Most trust Obamma simply because of his charisma. His policies are dangerous and repugnant to most who cherish freedom and less government interferance.
.
started long before the now. Really. You are JUST catching on? The FISA workaround (as in 'work around the US Constitution') was in place in the 70s. The FBI and other US governmental agencies have been surveilling the radical members of the US citizenry, right and left since the Red Scare in the 50s, but Nixon and Reagan did loads to exert control over the citizenry via the US govt. Protests were suppressed at Kent State and Jackson State in the 70s, Chicago in 68, Seattle in 1999. And you are just seeing it start now? Your powers of observation are underwhelming, to say the least.
The FBI started a file on me 1970, when I was 16. For being a radical lefty and writing about the government's transgressions against its citizenry through the Seattle 7's little printing press on 2nd and Stewart.
And if the 'Journo' you are talking about is Judith Miller, well she was in cahoots with the Cheney office, spreading propaganda which led directly to the start of the middle eastern bullshit. I am not crying no tears for that bitch. She was never a journalist. She was a mouthpiece for Dick Cheney, masquerading as a journalist.
And about the only thing you can count on Representative Doctor Ron Paul is a truckload of Ayn Rand Crazy. But according to you, millions like that shit...I'm just pleased they are not posting here so much.
I specially enjoy being lectured about all this crap by all these johnny come late peeps...
BTW, all those "millions" of Paulbots sure managed to remain dormant during the GOP primaries, I assume they had better things to do, like berating liberals while their boy Bush was in power.
Now all of the sudden, voila...
Here I am, in my fucking 50s, been politically active, left wing style since I was 5 (I singlehandedly boycotted Welch's Candy when I found out the owner Robt Welch was King of the Birchers) and these little goddamned twerps who just finished 'Atlas Shrugged' the night before are all excited about the Libertarian bullshit are running around the Ave, hang out by the Book Store. They always want to tell me how stupid I am for not knowing how it 'really is.' I have known how it 'really is' since before these little butt nuggets were gleams in their fathers' eyes.
I've had some of them be downright rude ("Vote for LaRouche or Ron Paul" "No Thanks I'm voting for Nader" "FUCK YOU FUCK YOU and Nader!" "OK now I'm willing to listen to you, with your crystal clear logic and calm demeanor. And the fact you cursed me out, hey bonus!").
Yeah yeah we've heard.
Ayn RandRon Paul is the Light and the Way. All hailAyn RandRon Paul.I'm am a Ron Paul supporter because his 30 year record in the House has shown he can be trusted.
Oh really. You mean this 30-year record in Congress?
That page is bookmarked for the next time this site is swarmed with the Feebs from Randland.
you really don't give a flying fuck about my rights or those of anyone else, or you would not be here trying to lecture us under the assumption that you truly know how we think and feel.
Good for you and your family that you escaped the tyranny in Cuba, were you tortured, held captive against your will, denied healthcare, exactly how were you tyrannized? And, exactly which of the social niceties are you willing to forgo to have the freedom you seem to feel you don't have: police protection so no one steals your stuff, fire/ems responsiveness so someone comes and revives you and takes you to a hospital or responds to a fire at your home; driveable roads; safe bridges; relatively clean water; relatively clean air; etc.
These arguments are always so interesting because guys like you love to come here and lecture us via a tool whose impetus and infrastructure were built using government money. I'm going to guess that you actually know no one here, so don't come here and try to lecture anyone about what they know or think.
But it's nice you try.
:D
Many people like to attack on this site. I'm going to defend myself and my beliefs.
I'm all for having people who respect rights defend them but police forces who tased people for no reason of which 300 have died is not what we need. If that's the choice I would say no to jackbooting thugs. We has seen this before in history and should be very weary of who we give authority to.
I don't need a government to protect my family or property. It's called b*lls and a fathers responsibly. It's called neihgborly love and respect for each other. It seems many of my fellow American lack it these days.
Do you really think government is protecting you from pollutants in the air and water? That's laughable.
Have you looked up at the chemical trails in the sky? DO you even know what that is? It's Barium and Alluminum. They've been doing it for 20 years. Who authorized what they've been denying all these years. Now Obamma is letting us know he's for starting it. He's 2o years to late.
Have you read that most major cities water supplies are contimnated with drugs and hormones, not to mention purposely adding floruide (a fertilizer derivitive) into the water.
You have to much faith in big government. I don't.
My cousin is the longest held political prisoner in Cuba because he was trying to find freedom here. It seems that people
And why would disagreeing with you mean we trust the govt?
As for not needing a govt, who do you call when your house is on fire? Just use a garden hose? but then, the garden hose is attached to city water. If you find a dead body or see a crime do you take care of that too? Do you drive on public roads, use sewer or garbage? Electricity? Phone? All courtesy of the gov't.
You need to take some basic, very basic logic courses. Your method for drawing conclusions is very flawed, and apparently based on nothing sensible. Certainly not logic as we know it.
Aluminum. one 'l'
Hey, kitty.
Let the man spell however he damn pleases.
That's his RIGHT. What are you, the Secretary of Spelling? Sounds like TIRANY to me.
Naut evryone cin bee a great spreeller.
And tu tink, I went to Texass fro my edumacation.
Well, Just luk at Jorge Boosh. He deed jus fantesstic.
note:
This is not intended to make fun of the good folks from Texas. Just the ones dat tink der da cats meow.
Howzit Y? nice to see you back.
I'm only doing it, because mr smarty pants here is trying to be clever and it's along the lines of 'Epic Fail.' I'm surprised he didn't spell it Obomba or Obummer.
What makes you any different from neo-cons? You use the same rational and debating techniques they do.
You reduce the debate to insults and childish comments because of a few typos.
You a very dignified group here.
The poster you are taunting is talking about federal government. When people talk about "big government" they are talking about "big federal government".
So many people on this site think that if there were no federal government the highways and bridges would become unusable. Why? The federal government gets its money to pay for the highways from YOU... The money to pay for the highways doesn't go away if the federal government goes away. The only difference would be to where you send your tax dollars. The same goes for police, fire, ems, etc...
Also, I don't understand where this flawed perception of government comes from... governments are not magical or godlike entities. There are no jobs/functions that only government can perform.
In an ideal world, governments exist to represent the people. They are elected by the people and they act fairly and justly.
We don't live in an ideal world though... one only has to look back in history (and not very far) to see corruption in government... our own government. At all levels.
Elimination of all government isn't the answer. But maintaining the huge blundering corrupt bureaucracy that we currently have isn't the answer either.
...if we simply closed down the 700 military bases we have in over 100 countries and bring our troops home.
If we closed redundant agencies like the IRS, The Federal Reserve, Dept. Of Education, Dept of Agriculture which are needless bureaucracies. We would much more prosperous and safer as a nation if we adhered to the founding principles.
We have the money to have all the programs you progressives call for but we spend it needlessly in countries we have no business being in. We are imperialist now and we are seeing the cost of this empire. We are bankrupt.
We would have better health care, infrastructure, education, business opportunities, etc. if we got back to basics an lived under the guidelines and laws of the Constitution.
Where were you and the other so-called defenders of American rights when the Military-Industrial Complex came into being?
Where were the Tea Party nutbars when Reagan began the exponential runup in the deficit that ended up increasing the national debt 11 times between 1980 and 2008? Where were you when Bush doubled a debt accumulated over 225 years in only 7 years?
Did you defend the rights of Americans not to be spied on by the government without warrant, in direct violation of the FISA law and the Constitution?
Did you defend the right of Americans to accountability and transparency, which Bush and Cheney violated by destroying their emails and records (that's not just an arguable constitutional issue, it's a direct violation of the Presidential Records Act)?
Did you defend the rights of a serving covert CIA agent who was exposed by Dick Cheney and his staff in direct violation of federal law?
Did you oppose the violation of the Geneva Conventions in regard to torture? Did you oppose rendition of terror suspects to the Black Prisons where they were routinely tortured?
... I assume the answers to those questions are an unanimous NO.
These are the same assholes who confuse their sense of "entitlement" with "right," and who try to frame the government doing its job to protect its citizens (esp. the weakest among us) as "entitlement."
F*ck em....
I am just so god damned tired of these types. Same sh*t with the NRA, trying to frame their desperate attempts to own penile extensions.... with them trying to be the unsung heroes protecting "my rights." It takes a special type of asshole to hijack valiant objectives like that in order to placate their little man syndrome.
Real people made real sacrifices to protect and further our freedoms. And yet these wingnuts are the assholes who would be the first ones to roll over and play dead, and they want to hijack the achievements of people who had more bravery, sense of duty, and honor in their pinky finger... that the whole collective of these sorry twerps combined.
...and yes I am involved in the political process. From protesting the wars and calling for Bush's head, calling the representatives, campaigning and have even arrested for my beliefs.
Now I protest Obama's war. Obama just made himself a war criminal if we hold him to the sames standards of the Bush crime family.
Where are the Democrats on that? Is it ok that hundreds of innocent Pakistani children die for this bogus war on terror? Is it ok to attack another country that did not attack us?
I don't know about some of you here but I stand on the principle of honor, respect, peace, and freedom. That's what I'm about.
(deleted by poster)
of the participants.
They have grievances.
They have been deprived of their "rights." Though, of course, what they miss were never "rights" granted to all, but were privileges they accrued by virtue of the color of their skin. They mourn the loss of their unquestioned privilege to objectify their 'inferiors.' THey detest that the culture is trying to rid itself of the very notion of "inferiors."
This is something that has been part of the "promise" that the Country was supposed to embody.
These guys are the losers who desperately NEEDED--still need, like any addict needs-- 'others' to whom they could feel 'superior.'
The worst feeling in the world has to be being a member of a dominant class coming to the knowledge that even with all the advantages their social/cultural dominance afforded them they were STILL going to be "losers" in the context of their own expectations.
Gotta be a bitch...
the guy that is fired from his job. So, he gets his assault rifle and kills everyone in McDonalds, the post office, or where ever. All because he was a loser and cannot cope in a changing world. It is the minorities, or women, or somebody else for his failings. I find these people to be cowards and bullies. They need to be exposed. After Dobbs and the republicans castigated the Mexicans; they lost the Hispanic vote.
Notice how none of these assholes were making as much as a peep while Bush was wiping his ass with the constitution on a daily basis.
Now they really really "care" about our "rights." Riiiiiiiight.
is a mental illness.
Re-Thugs are mentally ill ~~
because . . .
They're Sociopaths.
*
neither Beck nor Cavuto really believes that someone is coming to get them. If they did, you'd know it because they'd be the first ones to leave the country. But I have an idea! Let's surprise them and really go after them.
When in the hell is something going to be done with this nutjob Fox News station? He can spew all the hate he wants but come on when are they going to let someone on the other side have their say on their shows. They never give equal time to anyone on the other side.
They sell "shit."
They don't have to put any view-point on their shit-work who disagrees with them.
You wanna beat 'em? Ya gotta put 'em outta "bidness"
These right wing idiots are so paranoid it will not end well. They will blow up something, kill innocents all in the name of God and some form of sick patriotism.
It's already happening.
How does ther gutless spineless right wing wacko hate mongers get to work every day I mean there are brown red yellow and black people around them in public, and they speak other languages and observe different customs uuummmm! the spineless Hate Mongers move on.
Msybe these guys are the real threat maybe I should be watching them more closely, it stands to reason that if these people are making False acusations that are proven then they are really enemies of the United States of America, by standing with self confessed American Traitors and protecting them that makes them accessories.
So it stands to reason that by attacking critical thought and demending emotionalresponses and in their own words they are Enemies of the State.
They produce no real information other nthan hoit button issues so if they fall down some stairs get into a car accident or get mug and in any or all scenarios they die America would be a BETTER place.
Where were these fools when the feds were scheming to scuttle Oregon's assisted-suicide law or confiscating entire crops of marijuana grown in California for medicinal use? And I'll give you one guess where each and every one of these asshats were on passing a constitutional amendment to prohibit gay marriage.
The choice of the thinking-impaired lunatic fringe.
*
Thinking isn't in the Constitution.
Nobody can make anyone else think. That would be TYRANNY!
All the evidence I have seen suggests that these violent militia groups are in fact white power groups- and they are stocking up on guns in preperation for the 'race wars'.
The funny thing is, that when Republicans were in charge, these right wingers demanded liberals shut up and obey Bush without question. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, these right wingers feel its okay to slam the president in any way, and they want Obama out of power- by any means neccesary.
Glen (the dumbest man before a camera) Beck is Bart Simpson as an adult.
The image of Bart Simson creates Sesame Street for wingnuts came to mind when I saw that clip.
We ignore people like this at our peril.
They have been juiced up with eight years or more of intense fear mongering. They have state legislators on their side and for the moment they have a major cable network invested in stirring up trouble.
Perhaps Fox news will become bored, or perhaps at some time this will no longer be profitable and Rupert Murdoch will decide that this is not the game he wants to play. But that isn't happening now, and so for now they have a media outlet.
Not only that, print media and the other cable networks are not interested in treating this as a story. I don't see broadcast networks developing much of an interest either. So this deadly soup is brewing unattended by anybody but those who are stirring the pot.
Don't laugh at them. Pay attention.I would imagine that at some point one of these breakaway wannabes will do something serious. Hopefully they will be making court cases and not stands at the border. Nevertheless, something will happen; the challenge will be made and the government will have to invite them to take themselves seriously by really reading the Constitution, perhaps looking at the documents they signed when they so badly want to join the Union. If things go on this one,they are going to be invited to grow up.
One hopes that means they will take a long hard look at the history of this nation. Not just their favorite parts, all of it. Including what happened the last time states thought it would be a good idea to strike out on their own.
For now, the federal government is remaining distantly uninvolved. Of course, I hope it stays that way but if these folks persist on this route Fox is driving them along we will be reminded that there are two sides to the issue.
Faux noise always has plenty of bat-shit crazy, braindead idiots, to spew their rancid lies and garbage.
This is madness!!
Madness, you say??
THIS IS STUPID AMERICANS!!
Login or Register to post comments.