'Molon labe': Folks on the fringe right are fearfully fingering their triggers
That surge in gun sales that was reported right after Obama's election appears not to be waning:
President-elect Barack Obama's election has spurred a surge in gun sales, firearms retailers and enthusiasts say, as gun owners brace for what they believe will be a new era of gun control in Washington.
An electronic news service that covers outdoor news has even named Obama its "Gun Salesman of the Year."
Firearms associations began to suspect that political considerations were driving gun sales late last year as the number of background checks increased. But end-of-year figures showed a big spike in background checks for the last three months of 2008, and in November, the month Obama was elected, the number of background checks was 42 percent greater than in November 2007.
On the surface, this seems to be just about guns. But it runs much deeper than that -- and darker.
The fear being whipped up by the NRA and the gun fanatics has no known basis in reality. In the list of thirteen priorities for action in Obama's first year and beyond (see the New York Times on this), jobs and the economy completely predominate. Gun control not only is not on the list, there hasn't even been a whisper of it from the Obama team this year.
Yet that hasn't diminished the paranoia of the gun-love set (I'm afraid nothing is capable of that, actually), and that includes their shills inside the world of mainstream Conservatism. This week at the hearings for Attorney General nominee Eric Holder, one of the voices testifying against his confirmation was Stephen Halbrook, who also happens to have authored a recent book about the Second Amendment that's being promoted (via "book bomb") by such folks as Richard Viguerie, from whom we recently received an e-mail urging us to buy it.
What has the gun nuts already worked up about Holder, by the way, is his position supporting the gun ban in D.C., as well as an op-ed piece he wrote in October 2001 for the Washington Post titled "Keeping Guns Away From Terrorists." If you read it, it's only an eminently sensible piece about closing up gun-sales loopholes because in fact many terrorists use them to obtain weapons. Evidently, the "War on Terror" for Conservatives means sacrificing all other kinds of rights -- like the right not to be wiretapped, or the right not to be tortured -- but by Gawd, the gummint is gonna hafta pry the right to sell any weapon they like under the table at gun shows from their cold, dead fingers.
These fears are becoming widespread on the ground, particularly in the rural areas where gun rights have been a favorite bugaboo since the days of gas-station attendants and Beaver Cleaver. I know about this somewhat from personal experience; the fear that "Obama is gonna take our guns away" is certainly commonplace when I spend time in the rural West. But you can hear it bubbling up in a Washington Post piece about rural dwellers' mistrust of Obama:
"That comment he made about guns and religion, it's frightening, you have to admit," says the secretary at his accountant's office.
Loewer agrees. "I don't believe in going around with a gun strapped to your hip, Wild West-style," he says. "But you ought to be able to protect yourself."
... Near the refrigerated cases, a petite woman holding an inventory scanner greets him. She's wearing a name tag that says "Audrey Loewer, general manager, serving you since 1972."
Obama did not get her vote, either. "I don't know what will happen to people around here if he puts restrictions on guns," Audrey says. "Me and Wayne, we're lucky, we have jobs. With the tight economy, there's gonna be more thefts.
"You see people come in here, you can watch how they buy. They fill up two or three baskets when the check comes in at the first of the month. Then they'll come in at the end of the month and you see Vienna sausages and Spam in their cart. They'll load up on bread."
Those are the sentiments among more mainstream members of the Conservative set. Travel a little farther out to the fringes of right-wing thought, and it becomes virulent and potentially violent.
On those fringes, what we're seeing is a reformation of the militia movement of the 1990s, which organized in large part over hysteria ratcheted up by Bill Clinton's gun-control measures, particularly the assault-weapons ban that passed in 1994. But there are a couple of twists this time around -- Barack Obama does not appear eager to push any gun-control measures through Congress for the time being, so the fear and paranoia required are even more ephemeral in their basis than in the '90s; and more importantly, the new militia is being constituted of a different base -- younger, more militant, more paranoid, and more likely to have an actual military background.
A lot of this organizing is happening quietly, and the Internet is playing a key role. Among the more common places you'll find militiamen networking is at Web social-networking platforms like MySpace.
Much of the networking is going on at private pages that you need permission to access, but others are public. For instance, there's this site, run evidently by an ex-Marine from Colorado, which features discussion of such subjects as "Training a Survival of Militia Group, Part 1."
A common organizational theme popping up among the new militiamen -- you'll find it scattered throughout the above site -- is "Μολών Λaβέ" -- or "Molon labe," which is Greek for "Come and get them." As Wikipedia notes, it's the sentimental equivalent of "Over my dead body."
I have voted in Safety Joe's poll for the next friend's list he should make and I have suggested a state by state Μολών Λaβέ so that those who are near each other can prepare a response plan.
We grossly outnumber them - if we organize. How can 5, 10, 20, or even 30 cops stand down every Μολών Λaβέ patriot who bands together in defense of each other?
Talk is nice but now is the time for action. Organize with your geographically close Μολών Λaβέ friend and prepare a response plan.
Another glimpse into this mindset can be found at the MySpace website for Come and Take It Radio:
Join hosts Matt Conner and Erin Cassity as they proudly lead the way into the dark bleak abyss that will be the Obama Presidency as the drum beating leftys that have joined with us for the past eight years run off into the shadows to back pedal and support Obama's wars for the Elite. We will speak the truth that the true "Conservative" will be so desperately seeking in this new age of world governance. Everything from preserving our gun rights to how to prepare for the fun of the looming depression, these Texas Nationalists will cover in this Sunday evening show.
If you scroll around the site (recommended only for those with a shower handy), you'll find posts from likeminded souls, such as the white supremacist who posted this:
[Full-size version here.]
Of course, this bubbling cauldron has ramifications for the nation down the road. There's been a lot of discussion already of the increased security around Barack Obama at his inauguration this week:
Federal agents are on “a higher state of alert” because of hate talk by white supremacists about Barack Obama’s inauguration, officials told the Daily News on Tuesday.
“That chatter is out there, no doubt about it,” one senior FBI agent in Washington said this afternoon, adding that no credible plots against the 56th Presidential Inauguration have been detected.
The Bureau has ordered agents in all 56 field offices to “shake the trees” in advance of the Jan. 20 swearing-in of the 44th President, who will become the first African-American to occupy the Oval Office.
“They’re talking to sources to determine if there is any threat information in regard to the Inauguration,” the FBI source said.
“Everybody in law enforcement dealing with that particular (white supremacist) ‘clientele’ is on a higher state of alert,” a senior agent at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told The News.
The ATF has expertise infiltrating white supremacist groups. A classified threat assessment for the Inauguration by the FBI and Homeland Security Department citing agitated hate groups was sent to police agencies this week.
Counterterrorism officials have also picked up chatter from Islamic militants, but the agitated domestic hate groups are “the big concern,” said another FBI official.
A CNN report today had more details:
[I]nterest in racist ideology was so high right after the election that computer servers for two White supremacist Web sites crashed, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups.
But the violence and interest soon subsided. Leaders within the white supremacist movement are now seeking to capitalize on Obama's presidency by using his election to help grow their organizations.
"President-elect Obama is going to be the spark that arouses the 'white movement,' " reads a posting on the National Socialist Movement Web site. "Obama's win is our win. We should all be happy of this event."
In an interview posted on his Web site on election night, former Louisiana state Rep. David Duke said Obama's election "is good in one sense -- that it is making white people clear of the fact that that government in Washington, D.C., is not our government."
"We are beginning to learn and realize our positioning," Duke, a prominent white supremacist, later said in the election night recording. "And our position is that we have got to stand up and fight now."
The extra precautions this week are only sensible, given the magnitude of the event. But as you can see, most of the rhetoric around his ascendance to the presidency isn't focused on harming Obama but rather in "resisting" his "New World Order" rule.
All of which suggests that the danger in these trends lies not this week, and probably not in an assassination plot (though that certainly is plausible too), but rather over the longer term, and the threat is directed more toward government generically, especially including law enforcement. But as we have seen with other right-wing lone-wolf avengers -- like Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph -- that animus often translates in action into a lot of dead and injured innocent citizens.
In other words, given the security womb around him, Barack Obama will probably be fine. The rest of us, however, will need to be watchful and alert.
Complete protein. Soak the beans overnight. Discard the water. Cook the beans over low heat for three hours. Mix with brown rice cooked 0.45 hours. And vegetables to your choice.
Good luck.
Pretty good. It's the turmeric that makes the difference. Google "Obama's Chili Recipe."
Good spice.
one of the best.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17955367
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=...
http://moodfoods.com/turmeric.html
sucks.
sour and stinky. No thanks.
I prefer high-quality chilies. Chimayo style especially.
that many of us on the liberal/progressive side of the aisle own guns, use guns for hunting and collect guns.
What separates us from them is that we do not have an orgasm when we touch the trigger.
I am a Second Amendment person.
I don't hunt. I love animals.
But I believe in freedoms. Of speech. Of firearms. Of protection from unreasonable search and seizure, from undue influence, etc.
I don't hunt any more, and even when I did, being part Native American, I gave thanks to the spirit of the animal and we used every bit of it for sustenance and fiber.
I have never killed for the "fun of it".
We live in a very rural state (Maine) and many people here hunt. There is very little crime. We all seem to get along peacably and respect the rights of others.
It's nice here but very cold!
You are a good guy.
I am an old woman, almost 70.
You are good. Really good.
Keep it up.
my husband.
Be kind.
He's an old guy.
.
70 is not Old. You're just entering the mature stage.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Please do not demean the dignity of age by pretending it doesn't exist. There's great honor in being old. Old age means wisdom, competence, and a lifetime of experience to offer. Don't underrate it.
Sat, 01/17/2009 - 16:16 — They all suck
I am a Second Amendment person.
I don't hunt. I love animals.
But I believe in freedoms. Of speech. Of firearms. Of protection from unreasonable search and seizure, from undue influence, etc.
____________________________________________________________________
Are you under the influence?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...and I am educated well enough to know that the Second Amendment provides only for the collective right of states to maintain a well-regulated militia (today's National Guard). Individual gun ownership is not a right; like driving a motor vehicle, it is a privilege.
You're wrong. That's like saying we no longer have freedom of the press because we no longer use wood-screw printers.
Individuals have a right ot own guns...period. The whole "National Guard" argument is BS. Here's the essay that opened the eyes of many former collective rights advocates to the fallacy of their position:
http://www.constitution.org/mil/embar2nd.htm
Levinson is a liberal Democrat and former "collective rights" advocate who realized he was wrong after studying the history of the 2nd Amendment.
From the article:
There is strong evidence that "militia" refers to all of the people, or least all of those treated as full citizens of the community. Consider, for example, the question asked by George Mason, one of the Virginians who refused to sign the Constitution because of its lack of a Bill of Rights: "Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people."
So they wrote they entire Bill of Rights for George Mason?
Try again.
The history of the militia was that during the Revolution some governors refused to allow their colony's militias to fight for the cause.
Read the Constitution on the Powers of the Congress, Section 8, cl 14-15:
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress...
And Article II on the Powers of the President:
Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
YOU try again. Read the article. Had you read the entire thing except my quote, you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.
You're confusing the modern definition of the militia as opposed to how the Founders understood it. You would have known that had you read the article.
I'm ex-Airforce, with degrees in Political Science and Paralegal Studies, and you?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
with a minor in constitutional law.
Not that it matters. Either you're right or wrong.
And you're wrong.
but that article never successfully explains the preamble to the 'right' to bear arms. It's very hard to spin the word "regulated".
The framers understood the English language, and their meaning is clear.
I recall reading once that the term 'bear arms' in the 18th century referred to military service.
I believe it was in he book "Up from Conservatism."
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
I just bought myself a ruger mini 14.
I just like to go target shooting.
I guess I am one of the people that has bought a gun since Obama has been elected.
You are a U.S. citizen.
I was all set to get a Glock, but the Ruger felt as if it were made for my hand. And, made in New Hamshire, U.S.of A.
"What separates us from them is that we do not have an orgasm when we touch the trigger."
I agree, the other thing that separates us from them is that liberals tend to support everyones rights and not just the rights that we are using at the time.
Oops, sorry. I thought you were talking about Red Beans and Rice (the brown rice?)
This whole gun buying surge reminds of the Duct tape buying surge in 2002. Remember? Same people, same idiots.
Wait, the duct tape and plastic sheets aren't protecting me?
Holy crap! What if Al Qaeda assumes the form of a slow water leak and invades my crawl space?
I suppose you could try suppositories.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You'll have to pry the rice and beans from my cold dead hands...
Check out me with a Keltec Sub 2000 40 caliber.
I broke my damn nail making this freakin' video!!!
(Cool gun though...the way it folds up and all...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5PI0NKe0U
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Is that really you in that vid?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Yes, my friend and I decided to make a video that was a mocking of Sarah Palin, Rev. Muthee and Palin's hubby Todd.
We did it pretty much ad-lib.
My friend does editing, so that was actually the fun part.
Ha!!
But I actually DID break my nail trying to open the damn gun!
Ha!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
What city did you say you lived in ? :)
That was pretty good. Especially the part where you were trying to open it. Sticking your head over the barrel. LOL.
I couldn't believe it. But then again. Look who you were portraying.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
for the moment.
In about ten days I shall be moving to parts yet unknown.
Huntington, NY? Daytona Beach? Lauderdale? Missoula?
HELP!!!!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
You don't know where you're going?
It's winter, head south.
So I take it you don't have work. So that means limited funds. Which means scraping by.
Do your sons know about this difficulty?
They should. That's what family is for.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
And I live well.
I just don't know where to go to "hunker down" for the "Depression".
I'm thinking Florida might be nice...the beach, bike paths, good watering holes with fresh fish, a lap pool in the back yard...
Yet I will miss the cardinals, the bluejays and woodpeckers that dine in my back yard in the morning while I sip my vanilla latte's.
All my grown sons are in L.A.
I'll admit, I miss them. The Baja Cantina, The Rose, 12 Washington, the Boardwalk, Staples Centers Lakers games, Dodger games, UCLA Rosebowl football with all the guys and their friends, sneak film previews on the lot at Sony in Culver City.
But where is the best place to "hunker down" for the next few years, just in case we all need guns, ammo, silver, survival food, water and good vodka/tequila?
It's a real quaqmire for me to decide.
Northern Cali is interesting. The Russian River...wine country.
But the locals are just a bunch of stoned hippies with not much to say.
Have I become a foolish snob? (Redundant question?)
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I'm heading to Mexico.
But for some reason, I don't think it will be all guns a blazin a wild wild west type of thing.
Sure, it will be tight for awhile. But I'd be surprised to see HUGE soup lines. I don't think that will happen.
Although, I could be wrong about this.
In Northern Calif, atleast they'll be work up there.;)
Got Green Thumb?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I grew the bomb French Carmello tomatoes this summer.
Sweet peas, dahlias, gladiolas, herbs, salvia, cosmos, sunflowers, moonflowers, morning glories and on and on.
I love gardening!
One thing that would be nice about Florida would be that I could once again grow night blooming jasmine. That is a rare treat!
You know what makes an awesome perennial landscape? Rosemary.
It's hardy, makes an awesome hedge and when you brush by it, it throws off the most delicious fragrance! Plus it's useful as a snip for roasting potatoes with olive oil etc.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
But the damn thing leaked.
Damn you, cheap Dollar Store super soakers!
These people are afraid that the government is going to take their guns from them.
So...they go out and buy more guns. If the government is supposedly going to take all their guns away, unless they plan on going down in a blaze of glory, aren't they just throwing your money away?
We're not talking about the Mensa set here are we?
do not illuminate the darkness.
It's the Blaze of Glory thing. Sorta like the Rapture, a good John Wayne movie, and a kick-ass Toby Keith song -- all rolled into one.
They plan (in their fervid imaginations, but far from reality) to go out in a blaze of glory. Probably end up as a sad and sordid little affair on the local news somewhere.
The sad facts are however that even if the government decided to do exactly as these people fear, there's not much they could do to prevent it, not when the government controls the military, and the military controls air support and armor (tanks and such). It wont be Red Dawn,it will be Sand Creek, the Washita and Wounded Knee, with helocopters and tanks.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
And people thought Michael Moore was out on a limb when, in Bolwing for Columbine, he drew a straight line between fear of black people and the proliferation of gun ownership.
Anyone think that we'd see the same spike in gun sales after a Kerry victory?
It's a double shot: lefties taking your guns and brown people taking over.
That's right Billy, I forgot about that.
Remember that part where a bank was giving out guns as a promotion?
Freaking insane!
More accidental shootings, most likely involving minors. By the way, is anyone keeping track of the illegal gun sales?? You can bet they're much bigger than the legal gun sales.
From change.gov:
Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.
Article caption of Steven Spielberg with a rifle in his hand - priceless.
You're only figuring this out now? When I heard there was a upswing in the sale of AK ammoback in November, it sent a chill down my spine. The first thing that came to mind was Obama's safety. These people are not stable. That said, unless they have a record of instability, there is no way to deny them their legal right to own firearms in the US. Remember, there are many illegal ways of obtaining firearms and that's what truly scares the crap out of me. There's no way of tracing them.
You ever stop and think that maybe people are scared becuase the economy is collapsing. Gun sales went up after 911, during the Y2K scare, after Kennedy was assinated, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and yes when the stock market collapsed during the 1st Great Depression.
I just think it is a big stretch to say that people are rushing to buy guns; becuase, a black man was elected President. I just don't see it in this day and age. Maybe in parts of rural Idaho; but, not on a national scale. I think the economy tanking is a far more plausible explanation for this.
May I add that these same people have seen gov'mint at its worst these last 8 fucking years?
A good job and a full belly does a lot to maintain the peace.
I think it's bigoted to jump to the conclusion that people are mostly buying rifles because a half black man is elected President.
As you say, it might as well be because of the economic recession and because the nation is tanking, and things might get worse.
The last eight years have marked a totalitarian trend all over the world. Most western societies seems to experience a trend towards a more closed surveillance and database society. Governments are treating citizens more and more like criminals until proven otherwise. In USA, Blackwater are starting operating inside the country, and scenarios of martial law and military in the streets are not so far fetched after the criminal Bush regime have had their way. The American constitution has been trampled on. Also, politicians are still being assasinated in "the greatest Democracy on Earth".
Also climate change and more natural disasters might force people to fend for themselves.
There is also a wide range of apocalyptic and scary scenarios being narrated and spread all over the internet. Everything from "New World Order", which is a simplistic way of branding the manipulation by money masters and self-proclaimed elites of society, marked by the trends of closing it down, spreading fear and propaganda, undermining Democracy, redefining liberty, profiting from provoced or natural disasters etc. etc, to the far out armageddon scenarios. Most people surfing the net have probably stumbled upon some crazy-ass scenario where "something" will happen in 2012, and the funny thing is that totally different narratives and causes are being spread in Christian, New Age and atheist circles. Where does it come from? Psychological warfare?
A sane mind that trusts its own instincts and ones own eyes has no choice than to become a bit paranoid these days.
obsession with firearms in the US? Are you people that paranoid that you need guns and a piece of paper (constitution) to give yourselves some kind of therapy? I've never seen a nation so obsessed with firearms. It may be a right, but that doesn't mean everyone needs one. Maybe that's why the crime rate/prison rate is so high?
because the government has outlawed drugs. People, mostly young black males have been locked up for years for simple drug charges like marijuana possession. It is an effort by many to keep them from voting as they tend to vote Democratic.
That's just one reason.
And, no, everyone doesn't need a gun. But anyone who thinks they do can get one. That's the law.
there should be some kind of test to determine one's mental state. Could use the same test on politicians too.
to be applied to prospective parents.
Politicians?....great idea!
yes, especially parents that name their kids after famous murderers.
Or Nazis?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
They took his kids away, not sure why tho
link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/16/adol...
Today, I caught a minute on C-span when a man called in and said, "Barack Obama is a terrorist. I hate him." The moderator cut him off and did actually comment that "such negativity" is uncalled for. Such ignorance is uncalled for. Maybe a few of these gun nuts will shoot themselves or each other. The rest should be made to realize they are bigoted boars who need to use those mushy relics inside their heads. All of this is a bad excuse for racism. Pure and simple.
The rest should be made to realize they are bigoted boars who need to use those mushy relics inside their heads.
I suspect the only thing that would accomplish that would be a steel spike through the head.
The increase in gun ownership is more to do with the financial collapse,
and news like California saying they are stopping Welfare payments in February.
A new gov is nothing, people will piss and moan and so on, life goes on.
And if the truth were told the #2 people and the Libertarians prefer Obama over Bushco, or they will see how things can and will improve.
A financial collapse and millions going hungry and roaming the countryside looking for food worries people.
My only exposure to guns was M-16 wet fire training in the Air Force Basic. I had to compensate for a little circle the far end was making in the air. Eventually, the gun got so hot it threw off my last shots. The smell was also getting to me toward the end. The smell of the gunpoweder and gun cleaner.
When the sergeant training us looked at my silhouette target, he said not every shot hit, but the ones that did seem to always hit the head. He said with a little training I could be dangerous. I said, "Yeah, but I was aiming for his heart."
I've always wanted to own a Luger, but they're really expensive. But just the same I never really wanted a handgun in my own home. I figured I'd end up using it on myself.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Aren't these people so afraid of terrorists and foreign governments that they beg their government to keep them safe no matter the cost, yet claim they could defend against an attack from their own government?
For 8 years, the Bush Administration has had a hands off approach to our "homegrown nuts". Even though we have declared a war on "terrorism" (when we should have declared a war on terrorists), we have ignored the terrorists who dare call themselves "patriots".
Instead of monitoring them and closing down their access to "weapons of mass destruction", which I am sorry but an AK-47 is a weapon of mass destruction, we have chosen to allow them to fester in their hate and ignorance. Of course, the NRA is a conspirator in this mess and should be shut down for, as far as I am concerned, being a supporter of terrorists activities.
"I am not a member of any organized party — I am a Democrat." - Will Rogers
www.phoenixjustice.com
This ultimately will get ugly and a lot of people are going to get hurt. If we are lucky, it will only be the gun nuts, but they will also probably take some LEA with them. What really scares me is the overlap between the gun nuts and the racists. Those folks are fully capable of truly epic batshit crazy (see McVeigh, Timothy).
I have been listening to people around me at work talking about their fear of race war/civil war if Obama is assassinated. They are expecting Obama to be assassinated. They think it is inevitable. They think if this happens the black population in America will kill every white person they can find. I suppose Clarence Thomas will burn down the Supreme Court Building unless Roberts is there with an AK-47 to defend it. (Now there is a vision.)
Misinformed America staggers into the 21st Century guns blazing and superstitions dominating. It is unfathomable that i lived to be 52 in the US without owning a gun. Someone had to have 1)raped my wife 2)tried to kill my family 3) invaded my home by now, right? Here i am all defenseless in an evil world full of gun owners and no one has tried to shoot me yet. What gives?
I have a gun for camping in the mountains here in western Montana, which is home to large numbers of very large predators that sometimes get a little too curious about folks in their territory. At home, it remains unloaded and broken down with a trigger lock on. I have lived for almost 57 years, 12 of them in downtown Chicago and (even more dangerously) 35 in Oklahoma. In the time I have never had any occasion when owning and being able to use a weapon (two VERY different things) would have been of any help at all. Obviously must be doing something wrong.
I am against fear.
xoites.....I can legally get a gun any time I want here too, but why would I? So some neighbour's kid, or one of my grandchildren can accidentally shoot someone? I've lived 6 decades and have never required the services of a gun to fend off anyone. If anything, it's better not to own one, then if you get really ticked, you have no scapegoats to assist in violence.
...men obsessed with "gun rights," gun ownership and guns in general (so-called "gun nuts") fall in one of two categories:
1. They fear they either have lost are are about to lose their manhood due to their deep-seated feelings of guilt over their secret sexual feelings for other men, or...
2. They subconsciously fear they will be castrated for having sexual feelings for their mothers.
We can thank Christian sexual guilt and suppression for creating millions of frustrated and emotionally unstable closet queens and mother f-----s, and the NRA along with sick American culture for causing these dangerous lunatics to equate a gun with a penis and believe that genuine manhood can only be demonstrated by gun ownership, voting Republican, and supporting Bush's illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.
The problem with the argument that gun nuts are compensating for a fear of homosexuality and are over-compensating suggests that there is something to fear, which is contrary to your thesis.
And combined with your cited "Oedipal Complex" does to sex what Marx did to economic interests, making it more important in their interpretation than it need be, and over-simplyfying the problem.
Even Freud would admit he developed his theories analyzing the sick, not the healthy.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.gaypsychologist-sf-contracosta.org...
"We need to defend the morality of a system in American that says you are free to take risks, to make money, to create jobs and to do it however you want to so long as it's legal."
Paul "Vouchers" Ryan
What about homosexual gun owners without any complexes or religious history?
I hear these attacks on gun ownership rather frequently, as near none of my friends (online at least) are in any way gun-friendly, but I'm someone that really does enjoy going out to the range and sending some bullets into a backstop in a nice, safe, controlled environment.
I don't hunt. I don't fear the government. I don't fear criminals any more than your average person. I don't even have a concealed carry permit.
The answer is: There are gun nuts, and then there are gun -geeks-. To me, guns are technical works of art, and a truly fun way to dispose of dead electronics. And phone books. You wouldn't believe how much fun it can be to fire a round of 5.56mm downrange into a phone book and have the range look like a ticker-tape parade.
Labeling everyone who owns a firearm and enjoys it, for more than just hunting purposes, is extremely counterproductive and will always remain a great example why the "gun nut" side of the spectrum holds the liberal side in such contempt.
... the gun toting "Oedipal Complex Realized" contingent who have no problem with either. I think the clinical term for this group is "Trigger happy MFs" ;-)
up by those left from society's penhant for self inflicted wounds.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...
"We need to defend the morality of a system in American that says you are free to take risks, to make money, to create jobs and to do it however you want to so long as it's legal."
Paul "Vouchers" Ryan
Reactionary things like that rather gruesome image that has absolutely nothing to do with -my- gun ownership, is why liberals have such a bad name in the gun owning community. Image link reported to admins.
you will never be able to convince the
ignorant racist/bigoted white trash that
is part of this country. one in seven
adults in this country can not read or
write and you can be sure this is 100%
of the group that makes up the kkk and
white supremacists. these groups are
a total danger to America even in
prosperous and peaceful times.
...my point is that I didn't buy guns because of Obama. I bought them because Bush screwed up our economy SOOO badly that I think crime is going to escalate to levels never before seen. If that is a major component of one's belief system then it follows that the prudent would move to protect themselves. And that would be me.
So, I guess I'd be lumped in with the "gun nuts" statiscally, but I'm anything but. I own for self-preservation and I practice for neighbor preservation. That said, it is kinda fun...
-ek
You preserve your neighbours? Like jam?
Naw... More like jerky (but tastes like chicken) ;-)
on EIB network (Limballs blowhard carrier), stating at the start of his show that this was the last free weekend in America. Next week was something to the effect of the coming Obama Nazi anti-smoking, morality police state or some such crap.
Funny, I had thought to listen to learn something good on cigars. Whacko.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I would say now, most of the Duct Tapers will be willingly standing in line for any handout they can get from Obama. Maybe they will be the ones who fight over the last loaf of bread. Panickers to the end.
these people aren't the only one's panicking about Obama's election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI&fe...
There's a revolution coming. Don't turn your backs on them.
Bovine Freedom.:)
Luv that tune.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
What annoys the heck out of me about second amendment people isn't that they are necessarily wrong per se but that it is about the least important issue in the country.
1) Finding a gun in the U.S. is about as hard as finding a church or used car.
2) Where were these people when the Bush Regime was taking away our constitution? This very page of C&R -- 4th amendment screwed up. Seeing that a Supreme Court like this wasn't elected in the first place is what was important.
3) Thinking you are going to hold out against the firepower of the U.S. government in your mountain cabin is another interesting delusion. What is important is organizing -- bringing the people together for action. If people can agree on that, it should be organizing along point #2, making sure crazy laws aren't passed and sustained in the first place so we don't _have_ to have a civil war.
When I say it's poor prioritizing, I'm giving credit to the sane 2nd amendment people. I imagine there may be poor, rural whites who figure Obama is going to support roving bands of urban blacks savaging their communities. That's a social mental health issue. Saw it on a small scale when my wife and I were living in Baltimore City and the first black mayor was elected. Since whites are a minority within the city limits it was common belief in some circles a white would never be elected mayor again. Riiiiiight. So these people will arm up and when the black invasion doesn't happen, they will at least still have their security blanket. Hopefully well locked away or they will be minus a few children who will shoot themselves playing with the family stash.
{ Deleted, Off Topic and flamebaiting.And Blogwhoring. SiteMonitor}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr4PcOQYFAw
"We need to defend the morality of a system in American that says you are free to take risks, to make money, to create jobs and to do it however you want to so long as it's legal."
Paul "Vouchers" Ryan
I'm thankful for comments like yours.
It makes me feel vindicated that I've abandoned Mormonism, and indeed all Chistianity decades ago.
Living in Texas all my life (except for whilst in the Air Force), it's understandable that I ocassionally weaken
Until I hear or read a comment such as yours.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALTzNDiYGa8&fe...
"We need to defend the morality of a system in American that says you are free to take risks, to make money, to create jobs and to do it however you want to so long as it's legal."
Paul "Vouchers" Ryan
Don't abort. But kill the muslim?
Or better yet, Kill the doctor? Killing is killing bub. It's ok for you to kill because you paint it as protecting an undeveloped embryo. Eric Rudolph. You hypocrite. Tell me you see the hypocrisy here.
Tell me you're intelligent enough to see this comment for what it is
Which life did you decide was more precious?
Who put you in charge of telling people what to decide?
It's their body. It's their right to decide what to do with it.
How dare you assume you know what is best for other people.
Who made you all knowing?
This is one of the problems I have with people like you
You assume we don't know a damn thing. That we need help making these decisions.
You buy into some ideology that you can't prove exists. And say we're wrong and incapable of making decisions for ourselves.
I'm not necessarily an advocate of abortion. But I do recognize that not all people believe the same thing . That people are able to make these types of decisions for themselves. It's their bodies. It's their right.
Meanwhile,
Before the site monitors delete your comment for being off topic and downright flammable.
I'm glad I left the church long ago. People like you are what screwed it up in the first place.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVygqjyS4CA
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
what a joker you are. Sure Jesus died so you can hate ******s and kill anyone that is not a fanatic like you.
what's great is that when Obama starts delivering, you knuckle draggers are gonna shit in your pampers.
This has nothing to do with Obama being elected. People see what is going on in this Country and are arming up. I can see the riots, disarray, mayhem coming too. Let the FED and the bankers continue to rape the middle class and they will soon hit the breaking point. You want to see guillotines again? You want to see real justice handed down? Cause it's coming. Most Amerikans have no clue what is going on and run around like they are in a fairy tale. Soon it is all coming down. It's inevitable. And you know what...some gangsta comes to my home, or threatens my family, or thinks they are going to get my food...they got another thing coming. Arm up!
What a shocker!! To actually think that a "commie-pinko democrat" would actually own a gun doesn't make sense to the nut jobs on the right.
I went shooting yesterday with my friend, a cop. I brought my Russian M44 and he brought his M1 Garand and a couple of pistols. Had a lot of fun. I promptly dismissed his, and other nutty talk about Obama taking away their ammunition and guns. I said that if Clinton didn't take them away, then no one was going to.
He tried to continue to paint Obama as taking guns and ammo away, but I shot his baloney down. He's a good guy and I do think I had an influence on his false philosophy. We went with another of his friends and he was quite a bit more liberal than me and he had a half-dozen guns in his truck.
The NRA is nothing more than a tool of the Republican party. I joined once and threw every piece of their junk mail in the trash. All of it was begging for more money to fight the evil liberals...blah, blah, blah.
Get your guns, get some ammo, go to the shooting ranges and show the conservatives that liberals have guns and know how to use them. It truly shocks their senses.
and some of his students are offering an alternative to those addicted to guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQRi1-5zEnw
"We need to defend the morality of a system in American that says you are free to take risks, to make money, to create jobs and to do it however you want to so long as it's legal."
Paul "Vouchers" Ryan
I'm a pretty liberal guy on just about every issue, and I've never understood the rabid hatred that gun owners often talk about in regards to liberals. Yes, there are some people who are very anti-second amendment, and yes, they usually align themselves with the Democratic party. But I don't think the "liberals" as a whole are all that anti-gun.
We're anti -idiots and criminals- with guns.
I think there needs to be a politically liberal counterpart to the NRA, one that backs common-sense gun laws that don't add unnecessary restrictions to law-abiding, qualified citizens and aids citizens in becoming responsible gun owners. An organization that helps law enforcement agencies enforce existing laws, and still fights to keep our second amendment rights as fiercely as we fight to keep the first.
You see, the problem is that would disqualify over half the NRA. lol
Why don't they just admit that gun sales are through the roof because they believe that Barack is going to turn America into a blacker America, a hate whitey Amerikkka, and this sends shivers up their little yellow spinal cords? When Bill Clinton was elected twice I don't recall there being such a fright of gun control, at least not at this level... Of course one must take into consideration that good ol' Billy boy was white.
Make no motto of love that worships war
a 12-gauge shotgun. I plan on buying a handgun within the next month. My decision was based more on the current economic situation than Obama winning the election. Heck, if I was worried about him banning guns, I wouldn't have voted for him!
So the gun nuts overlap with the racists and white trash. Big surprise. These kind would never do anything for anyone else. They aren't here to help or lend a hand or help their country. Let alone think -- about others or the environment or other species. It is all about them-- and the penis substitute they hold between their legs, called a gun. Fear, right-wing radio, stupidity, chri$tianity, NRA stickers, murdering things with their big powerful penis, er, gun, and NASCAR is all they know. The rest of you who clutch your gun in fear are just as sick... The Y2K bug will bring society to its knees (I wish), the terrorists will get you in your bed...
Oh grow up already.
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
Dune (1965)
http://stevequayle.com/qf_january_12_2009.mp3
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN! It's about 30 minutes, but boy are they panicking...
Amended: "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
[Barack Obama]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
The attitude of most Americans toward guns shows that most are not fit to own one.
Nobody bristles are car registration and licensing yet if cars were driven the way people handle guns, people would be run over at intersections constantly and if a hit-and-run driver were actually caught, the "big 3" would send an army of lawyers to say that pedestrians have no right to crossing the street, that it's their own fault when one is killed.
I've never met a man who owned a gun. I've met emotional infants, but not men.
Never met a man who owned a gun, I've met emotional infants but not men! [Deleted. Abusive. Please keep it civil. Thank you. Site Monitor] More people are killed by cars every year than by fire arms, Tobbacco kills more people every year, The simple fact is cars and smokes are not in the CONSTITUTION! right you know that little peice of paper that defines us from the rest of the world! I can see you, and the kind or person you are, A bitter over educated single women that hates children and men. You had your say! Cool, That is your right, The Consitution protects that right, But it does not protect you from looking like an angry crank, slow down you can be bitter when you grow up alittle bit! Cheers!
Neither are guns mentioned in the constitution but vaguely worded bearing of arms in state militias.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Individuals who own guns, on the whole, that I know are usually responsible. The type and size is not the issue. It is the individual.
You can argue rights all day long, most of which have been taken from you anyway. The poverty and general sense of hopelessness leads to much of the violence in our country. The number of guns and the general accessibility is part of the equation. We are a violent nation, with a violent history. Again, it is a class system that promotes much of this.
Read "the Peoples History of the United States" by Howard Zinn.
America is functioning as it was designed too. Our forefathers setup a class system to play one side against the other, and it is still in existence.
I just bought an AR 15 to add to my collection.
I am a Illinois midwesterner and consider myself a moderate conservative. I have watched Obama since his early days in the Illinois Senate and voted for and supported Obama in this election because he represents a change in thinking on several issues than the old washington establishment.
Bush and the rubber stamping congress turned my stomach as they continually underminded the constitution and the Bill of Rights.
It is not Obama that I fear regarding gun rights but the general trend in this country towards the nanny state. I don't hunt but I own many weapons. I live in the country and know my neighbors and leave our house unlocked. Gun ownership is a tradition in this country and protected by the consitution. I own guns as a sense of being independent and able to provide and protect my family if needed. Not to mention that they are a very good investment.
I don't see our government restricting the ownership of guns but redefining what a legal gun is. That is where the real battle lies ahead.
If you hated Bush because of his continual undermining of the constitution than your have to support the second amendment otherwise I would have to call you a Bush Republican.
take care all
To these people, guns aren't about freedom or self-defense; guns are a vice, like alcohol or gambling. They merely "like" firearms.
H.R.45
Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009
It would create a national gun-owner ID card to track all people who purchase, own, or sell/trade guns (and collect $25 to register, as a tax of course).
Hopefully this act will be rejected just like the national voter ID card so that we don't get taxed on our constitutional rights and tracked like cattle if we choose to exercise such rights.
"(and collect $25 to register, as a tax of course)" I know I don't like that myself. Though it's been awhile, I believe I had to pay a fee, tax or whatever they called it, when I was married.
If they hide it in the cost of the gun, that's not right either. If they want to, they should provide them. Never gave it that much thought because I don't own one, but should we have too pay for our rights? I don't think so. Cut Government benefits or unlawful religious associations, get the money there!
Study the symptoms not the virus...
haven't scared the gun control crap out of every thinking, freedom-loving American, I can't imagine what would.
The next time that bunch gets power, watch out!
I don't own guns, I've never fired a gun. I have no desire to. That said I believe any qualified American should able to own a legal firearm, more so because it's in the Constitution. I'm for some sensible regulation but not to the point where it infringes on citizens' ability to own firearms.
That's the last stopgap on an out of control government. As we've seen, our national infrastructure and institutions are a lot more fragile than we can admit.
History Channel 1-18-09 11:55am est., shooting exhibition show is pretty cool.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
We have duly elected African-American politicians all over America, and they are no more corrupt than the Caucasian majority.
We do have reason to fear when the same well-organized, well-funded, military-contractor, bureaucratic, and drug dealing white Wright family runs two presidential candidates, one of them in a different size and color from the other one for camouflage.
Orville and Wilbur's happy gangsters just deprived America of a bunch of freedom of choice.
I've had to endure their burglars, corrupt attorneys, and auto vandals for forty years. Now you folks have them on your plates.
Heck yes, they want national registration so they can keep track of their prey!
If you don't want guns, plenty of other options exist which don't have Federal regulators licking their chops over them. Do check your property deed records frequently to assure that you don't have mortgages you never signed, and keep your ID papers and guns under wraps so you can't be killed with your own gun and your property reassigned with your own papers.
I live in rough country. Take this seriously, it's more common than you think, and these rackets will spread with spoils-system protection. And the perpetrators will most likely be whites.
The Second Amendment is not about hunting! It is not about the Nasty Guard, It is about the right of All law abiding Americans to own Firearms! People with thier miss guided interprations of the Consitution, the Supreme Court will not allow anti Gunners to pass laws that infringe on gun owners Constitutional rights. Simple rule, Better to have a Gun and not need it! Then need one and not have one!
People I would love to live in the World as Lennon would have like to see it, But he was gunned down, Look at how that passive revolution by the Dalai Lama in Tibet, how many monks have been killed by the Chinese, Where's the Ponchin Lama? All around the World people in disarmed countries are at the mercy of Crimnals and Government tyrants, Ask Sharmain Nevel would she still have been raped in New Orleans on top of that mall after Katrina hit if she had a Firearm? or the People that had to surrender there lawful firearms to law enforcement? Or ask the people that went through the LA Riots of 1992, The Police told them that they were on there own! When people went to gun stores to purchase a shotgun to protect his or hers family and property, They were told that they would have to wait 3 weeks for the background check. Laws that ban guns only disarm law abiding people, Handguns are illegal in Canada,But I could buy one in Vancoover in 5 min's, Crimnals will always have firearms, They do not obey the law to begin with, What kind of logic are anti gunners using when the come up with these Stupid Laws? The logic of Love and Peace What Lennon sang about and wrote about, Or is it something more sinister? Take a look at History, See where all people's that have ever been opresesed have first been dis armed, ask any law enforcement officer, What is your responce time to a crime? Where I live 15min from a medium sized town 10 min's from the I 5 It takes them an average of 45mins! There are only 5 deputies to patrol 590 square miles at night, They have told me it is a smart thing to be armed with all the buget shortfalls and thier hours being cut back and laying off of patrol men! They said crimnails rule the night, We only show up to write a report! So back to the quote, Better to have a gun and not need it, Than need one and not have one!
So ends the lesson!
Simple solution: guns can be legal but each bullet should cost $500
An eye for eye and soon the whole world will be blind.
Gun ownership is not the problem, it's the fanatics being able to get their hands on them. I know very few people who were armed, yet were being assaulted, that were able to defend themselves.
There were two seperate incidents at LAX this past week. One guy had about twenty assorted firearms and another had six. If they are stupid enough to come to the airport to pickup someone with the guns, they are stupid enough to shoot in a road-rage incident.
Ya gotta be licensed to drive a car, ya gotta be licensed to own a gun.
As a resident of rural America I have to say: This post is right on many points. The new militias have MUCH more military experience than the ones in the 90's. It is not gun control that they are afraid of though, it is the breakdown of society in the coming Depression. Many of them know that the U.S. military is expert at house to house gun searches, they themselves learned the skill in the streets of Fallujah. Another difference between these militias and the ones from the 90's is that most are Billy Joe and his brothers, uncles, and cousins....and ONLY his brothers, uncles, and cousins. That makes them very difficult to infiltrate.
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