Imagine if those New York terror suspects had been white
By David Neiwert Friday May 22, 2009 11:30am
There sure was an eruption of interest in domestic terrorism in the media yesterday over that case involving the black Muslim men who wanted to bomb synagogues and planes in the Bronx.
However, you'll notice one key detail here:
A federal law enforcement official described the plot as “aspirational” — meaning that the suspects wanted to do something but had no weapons or explosives — and described the operation as a sting with a cooperator within the group.
“It was fully controlled at all times,” a law enforcement official said.
In other words, these guys had neither the means nor the wherewithal to actually pull off any of these attacks. And an FBI informant helped them take action. We'll see if this case withstands the obvious entrapment defense that the men's attorneys are about 99.9% certain to use.
And that word, "aspirational" -- where have we heard that before? Oh yeah.
That was the word U.S. Attorney Troy Eid of Colorado used when he announced his decision not to pursue the case of the white-supremacist tweakers who were caught trying to kill Barack Obama in Denver. He called their plot "more aspirational than operational".
So you have to wonder how authorities -- not to mention the media, particularly right-wing media like Fox News, and particularly right-wing pundits like Laura Ingraham, who wondered out loud why President Obama didn't mention the Bronx case in his speech yesterday regarding terrorists -- would react if the guys who had been caught yesterday had all been white.
Actually, we know already. They'd have completely ignored the case. Just like the Denver case. And just like dozens of others.
Some others of recent vintage, all of which featured elaborate fantasies of destruction akin to our Bronx bombers' plot, and all of which involved white domestic terrorists, all of which were largely ignored by the media:
-- The skinheads arrested in Tennessee for plotting to kill Obama too. Remember their plan?
According to the ATF, Cowart and Schlesselman planned to suit up in white tuxedoes and top hats and then massacre 88 black people, 14 by decapitation, including Obama among their targets.
-- The Alabama militiamen who plotted to go on an anti-Latino killing rampage:
The heavily armed Alabama Free Militia planned to attack a group of Hispanics in Blount County and had orders to open fire immediately if they saw the feds coming, an ATF agent said Tuesday.
-- The far-right "Patriot" who constructed a sodium cyanide bomb capable of killing hundreds.
-- The ex-Army Ranger who planned an anti-abortion killing spree.
Notice one thing about these cases? They were similarly "aspirational," but at the time of the arrests, all of the suspects possessed weapons and/or bomb materiel.
And yet, as in the case in Denver, authorities either refuse to pursue such cases or they downplay them and suggest that the lack of apparent competence is reason to not take them seriously.
Yet when the same circumstances arise with nonwhite perps, we get "terrorism experts" like Bob Strang going on Fox News yesterday and assuring us that, even though these guys weren't competent and had no weapons, we needed to take them verrrrry seriously indeed.
And authorities act accordingly. Remember the "Liberty Seven" case, whose perps were similarly "aspirational"? The federal government not only took them to trial twice, it failed both times, because their "plot" was no better formed than was these men's.
Now, we all just witnessed the spectacle of the Right trying to whitewash away the existence of right-wing extremists through their self-revealing hissy fit over Homeland Security's recent bulletin about right-wing domestic terrorists.
But just remember: When Bob Strang reminds us that FBI has determined that the largest threat to Americans going forward comes from domestic terrorists -- and he's right about that -- by far and away, by an exponential factor, the dominant bloc of domestic terrorists in America are white Americans.
Too bad no one in the media, let alone the wingnutosphere, has figured that out yet.








Login or Register to post comments.
But this REEKS of a setup...entrapment or somethin...it just doesn't fit.
These guys may well be gettin railroaded.
Let's see....
African America
Muslim
Mentally ill
Low income
Anti Semitic
In New York
Fooked..proper fooked!!
Double proper fooked.
..an education. The next group will actually want to test the weapons before they deploy them to make sure they're real. Is that stating the obvious?
Read this.It is a little long but a good read and unintentionaly comical view that exposes how much time,money and trouble these buffoons will go to manufacture terrorist to scare us and the people with
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18...
According to the NYT today, they all had police records, but one was a crack-head living in absolute squalor and another either schitzophrenic or bipolar.
And the plant had a record and turned insider for either early release or no jail.
These guys couldn't blow each other.
when you physically deploy what you believe is a bomb and purchase what you believe is a stinger missile. i don't know. did the white guys in the Obama plot actually manifest actionable attempts to kill our new president? can some one clarify?
The Obama skinhead plotters purchased weapons and materiel toward their plot, and then both traveled to a rendezvous point to begin their operation (they lived in different cities).
i guess bombs and missiles add up as a greater threat? it would seem if they actually went to the city where Obama actually was?? i don't claim to understand the nuances as i'm just a street cop but i have to say we don't give people breaks because they 're white. of course a lot of people think we do. we don't in my city's department.
to answer a previous question it just isn't entrapment until law enforcement instills the thought to commit the crime. supplying the means to produce the arrest is not entrapment. selling dope to some one who asks for it is not entrapment. hiding near a stop sign to give a ticket is not entrapment.
were a very clear and present danger. In the new Bronx case these guys were no threat until the informant got them wound up and then helped them procur arms.
go to white supremacist web sites. i meet these guys on the job. them and the tattoos they have make my skin crawl. meth. heroin. truly evil racists. black or moslem extremists don't even come close to giving this evil feeling.
extremists.
I have met more than a few nazi skins in my day...(not all skinheads are racists btw.)
That said, I agree about the evil feeling they exude.
It's blind, uncompromising hate...and that's pretty fuckin scary.
for the clarification...I admit I don't know alot about this kinda stuff...
Not knowing the full details of this case obviously, it still seems like a setup to me.
But I've been wrong before.
your instincts are perfect this time around.
thanks.
setup
Umm, wait a sec. The FBI supplied the fake materiel so why is that not entrapment? Do we know that they didn't give these guys the idea?
"And an FBI informant helped them take action". How much did he help? Did he supply the plans?
Some critical thought is required in this case. Something that the MSM sorely lacks.
these suspects' really damning characteristic is that they were muslim
Actually the NYT says even that's not clear. They were going by past police reports where one identified himself as Catholic, a couple as Baptists, and one left it blank. I think one of the Baptists did convert to Islam, and was seen reading the Koran during slow times at work, but the local Imam said he and another of the arrestees only rarely came to worship. He also said essentially the plant stood out like a sore thumb, openly talking about jihad and attacking the US, so most of the mosque had him figured as an informant stirring up trouble.
these suspects' really damning characteristic is that they were portrayed as muslim
or perceived as muslim, even "self identified" as muslim?
though, really, my point was that arabs are racially caucasian, so being white doesn't always get one off the hook
being muslim, however, or perceived as muslim (fyi, many arabs are not muslim), sets one up for a world of hurt
would vote in a Lou Dobbs poll that Arabs are not white.
\And in this case the suspects are African American (if you concede that Haiti is hemispherically speaking, American.)
. . . if you can be perceived as non-white and/or muslim, do not under any circumstances plot against anyone, cos they will treat you as the next bin laden . . . a lack of competence or mental health will not mitigate in your favor
however, if you are perceived as white and christian, and aren't terribly good at crime (i.e., if the drugs make you sloppy), you might get a pass
But the FBI and the media won't treast the incident as proof they are stopping dastardly muslim terorist fanatics from taking lives and pulling the teeth and toenails out of babies while they sleep.
if you are a white person (and a woman) and can prove that you are a christian, wow you couldnt possibly commit a horrible crime.
Thoughtcrine IS death!!!
-Winston Smith under the Chestnut Tree
There are no chestnut trees in America
Liz and Dick Cheney are sulking because they caught these wannabe terrorist before they were able to do any harm.
Damn it! It would have made a great Republican talking point!
i thought voting for Obama was gonna get us all killed by the tourists? i mean terrsts. i meant trusrts. what ever dumb ass usta say.
The ever vigilant Obama administration can arrest bogus "threats" as well as their predecessors.
Wait until they are waterboarded...then you'll get some good intel about Iran being a threat to
Israel.Ummm...I mean the US.'Misunderstood Christians thwarted from doing the Lord's work'....
who seek NYC improvements."
How come the FBI never buys rocket launchers for white guys? We know very good and well there are a shit load of crazy right wing groups out there that would love to have the FBI use taxpayer money to set them up like they keep doing with these muslim folk. What's up with that? I'm suprised some of these white supremist and neo-Nazi groups haven't filed a complaint about this.
Of course this was all over the front page of the NY Post but in 8 years I never saw a picture of Bush and Cheney on the front page of the Post with photos of any of the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children dead due to their terrorist attack on Iraq. And not so much as one picture of a flag drapped coffin of the 4600 Americans they killed on the front page of the NY Post either.
IMAGINE IF THE FBI WAS EVEN LESS COMPETENT
Something seems to be tickling my brain cells.
If I remember aright in the last few years there was a major bust of of several KKK'rs and others planning bankrobberies to finanance a wave of terror.
But it was just handled as a regular bank robbery case.
"IMAGINE IF THE FOUR WERE WHITE RIGHT WING CHRISTIANS?"
Change of head, Sr. Niewert?
but kkk'rs are more to be pitied than any thing. these are the goobers of supremacist groups. can you hear banjos playing?
but don't forget, klansmen have infiltrated many levels of law enforcement, political office, and while they don't have the clout they used to...to dismiss them so readily is folly.
They still have an agenda.
infiltration of law enforcement in this day highly unlikely. sadly we do have older politicians in office right now who were high actors in the kkk decades ago. the kkk has an agenda today but their wherewithal is emasculated by all the civil suits that have taken their properties and assets. do a search on current well known politicians with past kkk affiliations and you'll be shocked. i was.
But not knowing what area of the country you're in, I'm from the deep south, and not long ago (80's through the 90's), there were a few cops that were klansmen in my hometown.
"a few cousins" not cops.
but i fear you're not about your local cops. go check out some klan sites. they've been hammered such that they're actually a disorganized rabble with such infighting that they're ineffective. pitiful.
How do we know they're not permed white boys who frequent john boehner's tanning salon?
Can you link me to some quotes where they say totally contradictory things and use the Words "Obama, "Pelosi", "lying" and "CIA"
Bad News: These four will cost U.S. Taxpayers a bundle.
Good News: There are only four, thus cheaper than the CA. octuplets.
Bad News: These dangerous terrorists are still in the U.S.
Good News: As a Texan I don't have to worry about them
being on domestic soil.
Just 'cause these guys scored their weapons from an informer doesn't mean that might not have gotten the real deal from elsewhere. Bad luck on their part. But it does not mean they were no a viable threat.
Sure, wingnut land will uses this to justify opposition to Gitmo closure. But that does not mean the perps were not dangerous.
nothing to rehabilitate, the mental health system lets crazy folk fall throuigh the cracks, and that there are lots of gullible people out there that allow the FBI to look like it is doing its job.
Hope everyone has a safe and fun Memorial day weekend!
a repeat of the Sears Tower bomb plot.
who have been whining and crying about the possibility of terrorists actually BEING on our soil in supermax prisons (which no one has ever escaped from) are today calling for these four to be immediately shipped out of the country because they're such a threat to our country simply by being detained here?
Let me guess, not a one.
I'm really glad these guys were caught. That being said the FBI is really scary!
There is no way to defend against them. Look what happened to Tommy Chong. Once they want you there is nothing you can do. At least with local law (sometimes) they will listen, and get it right. Not so with FBI they go after your family and humiliate everyone and take everything if they want you.
Funny stuff the gubment getting caught doing a liberty 7 with a jersey 4. The growing season is coming on now, so perhaps the agent in charge of entrapment promised to keep them supplied until October?
This is so embarrassing that only the TV news would buy in.
When we had the war criminals from WWII in Leavenworth waiting trial. They were separated from GP. I'm thinking that these guys will be to, keeping them completely isolated for there safety and others is common sense.
What is wrong with these people?
Too bad they don't excel at basketball or play soccer for Duke. Another FBI nurtured plot to show the American people what a wonderful job they're doing keeping us safe. The FBI should find out who forged the Niger document or something really useful.
They are trying to set up some black muslims AGAIN? I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the alleged "plot" by some black muslims and haitians in florida to bomb the Sears Tower in Chicago. Remember, how they were concerned with getting some "new boots"?
That soon before or after the friggin group "uncovered" in the UK who were supposedly to blow up a plane by mixing chemicals...yet none of them had passports. To this day, I can't carry a bottle of friggin water through security.
Obviously remnants of the last administration, and whoever they really worked for, still pervade a faction of the FBI to "create" a domestic terrorist...while I'm more concerned about the Tim McVeigh clones to be honest. Not to mention the supremacists who have already tried to plot against the prez.
Hi I joined because this topic sort of confused me. What is the criticism here, that the FBI located four guys who aspired to kill jews and gave them enough rope? Why is this an outrage? I am a loyal democrat and liberal, but this doesn't strike me as something of the left/right variety. These guys were no good and all had rap sheets. They liked the idea of killing people because they were jews. Once people found out about them what were they supposed to do, let them go about their merry way until such time they were able to go beyond merely thinking about it?
And I don't get the comment that they were african american anti-semites in New York and that's why this is dubious. Is the criticism here being directed towards the anti-semites, or New York?
right. Everyone. what does "I am a loyal democrat and liberal, but..." REALlY mean?
"I am a not loyal democrat and liberal, but as my previous son-in-law, Cliff Warner (who married my lovely daughter Nina in one of the most fabulous soap opera weddings up until that time) said in an aspirin ad "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV..." I'll pretend to be a soapaopera character and a loyal liberal dem, but actually, I'm a concern troll.
Ironic since Palmer Cortlandt is really Pete Cooney.
Palmer. Look out. Adam Chandler just stole your fortune again.
Hey Miss Kitty, what's your problem? I am sorry Marshall Dillon never hooked up with you, but don't take it out on me! I don't even know what a concern troll is. As I said before, I don't see the criticism here or why this was even an item at Crooks and Liars. Yes, the story had crooks, but we are being guided towards seeing the crooks as the victims here.
Your total lack of any semblance of a response save for personal nonsense is glaring. I ask again, when the post way up top said something to the effect of "anti semitic in new york city..never had a chance", who were we supposed to showing disdain for, the city or the anti-semites?
Uh, it's not like these guys have been the first terrorists of questionable brainpower and who loved hitting the bong:
Top 5 Most "Intellectually Challenged" Moments in Terrorist History
Login or Register to post comments.