Killer whales in captivity: Sea World tragedy tells us something is not right here
Marine parks like Sea World can be great places to take your kids and introduce them, in a safe way, to the wonders of marine life. I took my daughter to Sea World twice while she was a toddler, and her first up-close view of an orca so thrilled her that she remains, six years later, utterly enamored of them.
But there's also something profoundly disturbing about them, particularly the orca displays. Part of what makes us gasp in amazement at the Sea World shows is watching comparatively frail and puny humans seemingly in control of these five-ton creatures that could crush them like a grape if they so pleased. Fundamentally, they're simply another display of human dominance over one of the most powerful and intelligent species on Earth.
But unlike other large, intelligent predators we keep in captivity -- say, grizzly bears -- we're actually able to create these displays because the orcas permit us. They are the only alpha predator species in the world, in fact, that in all of recorded history has never attacked a human being in the wild.
In captivity, however, is another story. The incidents have been few and far between, but captive orcas have killed humans in the past.
These incidents, like the one Tuesday in which Tilikum, a Sea World bull orca, grabbed and drowned his longtime trainer, Dawn Brancheau while spectators watched, seem always to arise not out of malicious intent on the animal's part, but because they seem not always to understand their ability to harm their human companions.
At least, that was the case with Tilikum, a whale who was captured from the waters off Iceland when he was two years old. Tilikum in fact is the largest orca in captivity, weighing 12,300 pounds. He was involved in the last incident in which orcas killed their trainer -- in 1991 at Sealand of the Pacific in Victoria, B.C. And as with this incident, he (and two other whales) drowned the trainer by "playing" with her. Tilikum, in fact, has a history of behavior indicating he does not understand his own power. (None of this fazes the lizard-brain element among us; today on Fox, Megyn Kelly told her audience that someone wrote in wondering why Tilikum hadn't been put down, the same as we do a dog that kills someone.)
Part of this history is why, when Sealand sold Tilikum, it was with the caveat that he not be used in performance displays. And indeed for years he was primarily kept at Sea World for breeding purposes. However, in recent years he has been used in performance shows, such as the "Believe" show in which he douses audience members. At some point, Sea World will have to explain why it chose to ignore its original agreement and use Tilikum in these shows.
But these are minor, legalistic issues. The real issue that the Tilikum incident raises is a larger, ethical one: Why are we in the business of keeping these animals captive?
Because the power dynamic in which we appear to dominate them is ultimately an illusion, a product purely of the orcas' intelligence, their willingness to socialize with us rather than eat us. Not only are orcas large and powerful, they are incredibly intelligent creatures with huge brains. And like all sentient creatures, their mental health ultimately affects their behavior.
And there is no situation more likely to negatively affect a killer whale's mental health than being locked up in a comparatively tiny pool of water surrounded by blank cement walls.
For a human, it would be akin to locking someone in a white, featureless padded room with maybe a couple of other people and getting fed by doing tricks for your captors. How long before you think people would start cracking and acting erratically in those conditions?
For orcas, it's even more acute. You know the big bulge on the front of their heads? That's not their big brain, which is located behind the whale's eyes. That's a sound receptor -- probably the most sophisticated of its kind in the natural world, though it mostly is a large sac of extraordinarily fine oil.
While eyesight is probably the most important of our primary senses, the chief means we have for perceiving and understanding our world, for orcas, it is at best No. 2 on the list. Their eyesight is reasonably good, roughly comparable to that of humans, but underwater -- which is where they spend 99 percent of their time -- it's of limited utility, since the farthest anyone can see underwater in even the clearest of conditions is a couple of dozen yards.
Killer whales' primary means of sensory perception is their echolocation, and it is a true sixth sense. We're only now beginning to delve just how sophisticated it is, but it's become fairly apparent that orcas are capable of seeing with remarkable clarity for hundreds of yards underwater, and their sound receptors and the brain attached to them are capable of "seeing" with remarkable detail and clarity through this sonic sense.
Combined with the sophisticated communication system of their "calls", or their language, their universe is primarily a sonic one. And so putting them in relatively featureless concrete tanks is akin to being in a blank white soundproof room for a human.
You can make these tanks fairly large, and Sea World's tanks are not cramped, but it's still an incredibly confining and limiting and sense-depriving existence for an animal like a killer whale. Even if the facility were huge -- and none of them are -- it could not come close to matching what orcas naturally experience in the wild.
Sea World loves to boast of its educational mission, and that's undeniable, as my own daughter can attest. But what it really does is make lots of money -- LOTS of money -- off the performances of killer whales. Without the orcas, they would be just another aquarium.
And there are other ways of letting children experience the wondrousness of killer whales that doesn't simultaneously promote an illusion of dominance over them. If you travel to Washington's San Juan Islands in the summertime, for instance, it's possible to see killer whales as they should be: in the wild.
I'm fortunate enough to live near these islands, and instead of flying down to San Diego, in the intervening years since our Sea World visits, I have taken my daughter numerous times out to see the orcas in a kayak, usually off the west side of San Juan Island. I also take along a hydrophone (I picked mine up from Cetacean Research Technology) and we listen to them.
A couple of years ago, with my daughter helping me with the sound equipment in the kayak, we had an up-close encounter with a large pod of about 30 whales. I made a slide show featuring some of the sounds we recorded:
Of course, kayaks are a great way to see orcas, though it's important to be ethical and keep your distance, unless the whales approach you, as they did in this case (we were out of their way in a kelp bed). But there are lots of ways to see whales in the San Juans without them, too; without a doubt, the single best way is to pack a picnic basket and spend a day hanging out at Lime Kiln State Park.
Here's a video taken from Lime Kiln -- a fairly sedate one, actually, since at times the whales stop and play in these kelp beds, and even more spectacularly, engage in play behavior like breaching here:
It's more time-consuming than a trip to Sea World, probably, and there's no guarantee you'll see whales, just a high probability.
But is it more rewarding? Yes -- in ways you can't imagine until you see them with your own eyes.
And once you experience killer whales this way, you'll never go back to Sea World. My daughter is adamant about it. Because you see with your own eyes that animals this powerful and magnificent do not belong locked up inside a glass and concrete tank, swimming in monotonous patterns all day. Nor should they be forced to perform stunts and tricks with human trainers for the sake of our amusement.
Certainly, I can tell you that when you are on the water in a kayak and are approached by a killer whale, there is no doubt about the power relationship. You are completely at their mercy. And the remarkable thing about killer whales -- both in the wild, and in captivity -- is just how merciful they are.
That is what makes the thrill of encountering them in the wild so profound. And what makes the business of keeping them captive for people's entertainment so deeply wrong.
The folks at Orca Network have some similar thoughts.




Well, they are called "Killer" Whales after all. Actually, as I recall from my oceanography class, they are really large dolphins. Still, keeping these magnificent creatures penned up for our entertainment has always struck me as wrong.
They are called that. For completely idiotic and mistaken reasons. It's a name that should be tossed on the scrap heap.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Would be more appropriate.
that is redundant.
The Circus, Zoos, Aquariums, movies, television, sports, leaving your "pet" in a tiny apartment all damned day, etc. We humans treat our animal brethren like shit.
I totally agree, L&L.
Animals such these including circus animals we're never meant to be used for show like this. As a kid I was amazed, excited, and grateful to see exotic animals like this; but as an adult I only feel bad for them because I know they don't belong there.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
because Darth Cheney gets free health care and they have to work.
Thanks.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
a vast improvement when compared to visiting zoos and aquariums. It's still not perfect, but is much better than supporting their imprisonment and exploitation with every entrance fee we pay to the zoo/aquarium-keepers. Ideally, we'd be content to watch nature programs and leave them the hell alone, but ppl want to appreciate wildlife, I guess. It's just ironic when the desire to appreciate causes the destruction of what you love... :(
While I will not deny that *some* zoos and *some* aquariums do amazing work, in a broader sense, I feel they are little more than prisons for the animals.
In particular, this story makes me think of the capture/torture of Dolphins in the name of commercial aquariums and film makers. NPR had several features about a recent documentary called "The Cove" which deals with this topic (links found below).
Also, for a broader "WAKE UP" type of message regarding humanity's tendency to showcase its dominance of the natural world, I would highly recommend people read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael" (and its followups), as well as watching the movie "Instinct" (which is based loosely on "Ishmael").
Anyway, here are some links RE: "The Cove" and a link to an online copy of "Ishmael" (which is a reasonably short/easy read, though it does require some thought and a decent smattering of knowledge regarding history/culture/etc.).
Movie Review from "All Things Considered" (short, not very descriptive)
--Article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?...
-- Listen: http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlay...
Movie Review from "Fresh Air"
--Article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?...
--Listen: http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlay...
Interview w/ Director/Ric O'Berry from "Fresh Air" (really cool!, but long)
--Article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?...
--Listen: http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlay...
A pertinent clip from "Instinct" = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcPyNIIt1Q
And here is the start of that movie, plus you can click through the other parts (just look at related videos): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TSb7_s3CKI
And finally, a link to "Ishmael" (the book):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7829408/Daniel-Quin...
The Cove is a great film. Devastating to watch.
...and then I think I saw something about it on here (which made it stick, not like I needed any help remembering something so heartbreaking).
Still, it's important stuff and I hope people start to work harder to help all animals in captivity. Then again, in a world where we're losing the fight against places like Guantanamo Bay and stuff like indefinite detention/torture of HUMANS, I find it hard to imagine we're going to have much luck springing the animals from the zoo's and aquariums. One can hope, though...
FREEDOM FOR ALL!!! (and thanks for your post on the travesty that is Sea World)
Here's a link to Ishmael.org . Check out the Q&A section.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Thanks for posting the link to the Cove.
I think it was actually here that I learned more about it in the first place... xD
I only wish I wasn't so wordy, perhaps more people would have checked out the links. Still, if even a few check out "The Cove", along w/ Ishmael/Instinct, then it's worth it.
Humans need to learn that we are not the lords of creation and we are not gods. Species that live out of balance and wage war against creation are doomed. If we don't stop, we will not survive our attempt to enslave the world.
"You can drive out nature w/ a pitchfork
But it always comes roaring back again..." ~Tom Waits
They live and they breath. Why do we feel the need to cage them for our amusement. We don't cage humans...sorry my mistake. We have plenty of humans caged for something as simple as a gram of pot. And we call ourselves evolved?
is intended to be a factual statement
Let. Him. Go! He's being driven insane, like that poor chimp who tore that woman's hands and face off. They're social creatures who require contact with their OWN kind.
about freeing Tilikum is that he'd most likely suffer the fate of Keiko: http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/pr...
It breaks my heart that out of the billions in profit these places make, they can't use that money to greatly expand the water homes for the Orcas and fix up the water homes in ways that give them interest, change and stimulation.
Frankly, it's Christianity that has "mankind" thinking "he" is superior to all other life forms on this planet. And no, I don't think all men think that way. David Neiwert is a case in point.
However, when I look at the fascist mentality in people such as Sarah Palin (in all fairness let's mention a female) who thinks it's her "right" to gun down wolves from aircraft, it makes me wonder about the fate of our species.
Tilikum is safe for today because he is a breeding "tool" for Sea World. If he weren't, I truly wonder what would become of him.
Frankly, I'm heartbroken at how humans are abusing the planet and enraged at the assholes who find nothing wrong with this, yet shout "sanctity of life" while gunning down people like Dr. Tiller.
"By words the mind is winged." - Aristophanes
You provide a link that states that Keiko lived 2 years longer than any captive whale had previously survived, then died of natural causes in his natural environment. The only difference from a never-captive whale seems to be that humans were monitoring him and attempted to help him when he fell ill in his "old age." Why do you refer to that as a fate we wouldn't want this whale to suffer?
Since then a few captive whales have survived into their mid 40s. Male orcas generally live into their 50s in the wild. (Like humans, females have a longer life expectancy) Tilikum is about 29. If he "suffered Keiko's fate" he'd live to about 47 and die of natural causes in his natural environment. That would mean almost 20 years or more than 1/3 his expected natural lifespan living in freedom in his natural environment.
I'd say let him "suffer' that awful fate rather than spend the next 10 to 15 years in a tank to be used as a sperm bank.
Why do you think Keiko suffered a terrible fate?
I live on San Juan Island, and see the pods of Orca all the time.
I am not a PETA member, nor a vegetarian, or a radical anything. But I think it's arrogant and cruel to keep these creatures as circus animals.
Once you see these animals in the wild, you realize just how wrong this is. Up here, it's bad enough that the pods are often surrounded by dozens of whale watching boats. But to trap them and confine them into tiny pools (and anything is tiny compared to the entire Pacific Ocean) is criminal.
that I see Ingrid Newkirk being brought on to discuss this, etc. but I think it's time to stop keeping orca in captivity.
They weren't meant for a life in captivity, and the times that Tilikum has lashed out at humans prior to this should have been a big sign that he needs to go home.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
like he was a porn star too.
In the orca business they call them "sea snakes".
I guess they're fairly common sights when they're doing the rubbing-rocks thing at Robson Bight too.
Moby Dick was fiction you idiot! And it wasn't an Orca!
The truth will set you free but can you handle the truth?
and Gregory Peck never appeared in the book Bildo.
'Talk to the hand'
the white whale didn't kill captain Ahab, his own sick obsession did him in!
The truth will set you free but can you handle the truth?
...sometimes a white whale is just a white whale.
'Talk to the hand'
...in captivity either.
(free Willy)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
There is no good reason to keep animals locked up like that.
It's just sad.
I used to work at Marineland in Rancho Palos Verdes. I'd see our two killer whales everyday. can't tell you how much I loved that experience but I felt at the time, this is cruel. I would walk along a long corridor in the three level whale tank and during the slow times Orky or Corky would follow me around the tank, looking me in the eye through the windows just about 1 foot away.
Incidentally, I heard Jack Hannah making a point that this whale and many of the ones in captivity were born in captivity. Not sure who has the right info.
Never liked it.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Corky is a special case. She is the last surviving orca from the Northern Residents (from northern Vancouver Island) captured during the '60s and '70s. She's not as good a candidate for release as Lolita, but he has earned the right to be returned.
Paul Spong is running a Free Corky campaign. Check it out.
Hey thanks for the link David.
Then on June 18,1982, Corky gave birth to a female calf. This was to be Corky's longest surviving baby. This baby also failed to nurse, and after 46 days Corky and Orky took the calf to the bottom of the tank and drowned her.
This is when I worked there. I did not work directly with the animals, but I saw a lot of Corky, and Orky and I felt a connection to them as did many park employees.
I left before the park was sold, but the whales were smuggled out in the dead of night and no notice was given to their trainers by Harcort Brace Jovanovich, the owners of the purchasing company Sea World. I felt so bad for them. They had spent so much time with the whales and were not even allowed to say goodbye.
I understand what you are saying, but do they have to earn their freedom? This is making me sick....
animals instincts? Really? No one has informed my cats of this happening. None of my dogs or horses ever knew this either, although one of my horses was a mustang from Wyoming who was born in the wild. A real sweetheart. Apparently she did not know this, either. Jack Hannah--not being accurate.
I don't think he was saying it in that way. I think he was saying it in the defense of holding animals in captivity. he still warned that we take risks by engaging with the animals that are similar to the risks astronauts take. But that the risks are worth it because it brings scientific understanding to the average person. I'm not supporting this, just loosely quoting him. The audio is on msnbc.
The unmentioned fact is that in order for a killer whale to be born in captivity, one must first capture the parents. So it is not a good argument for the humane side of captivity.
Hannah is mistaken. Tilikum was born in the wild and was captured when he was two years old near Iceland.
can't find the interview. hannah may have said that a majority of the whales in captivity today were born in captivity. That makes more sense.
Yeah, and that could be right.
Captive-born orcas can never go to the wild, but they still deserve better lives than what they have.
... it isn't right and it is cruelty to keep them in small tanks (ANY tank humans keep them in are small) for our amusement and for financial profit of a few.
Kayak to see Orcas. Especially with children.
Nope. Not a good idea.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Depends on what kinds of things you want your child to experience, doesn't it?
I've been observing orcas around kayaks for almost twenty years now and have never seen them so much as brush one -- even the morons who intentionally kayak into their paths. They're too graceful for that.
And having had close encounters with sharks (4 Great white attack victims I know personally), grey whales(one that smacked my friend with it's tail and tore off a piece of his heal) to dolphins chasing people with the intent of hitting them. To large fish of unknown species hitting me under water. To watching Orcas cruise by. I am reminded of one thing. They are wild. And being wild makes them unpredictable.
But hey.It's your call to do what you want.
Me? I'll check them out from a decent sized boat.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
And whatever you do, do NOT try to feed a wild Killer Whale a marshmallow from your mouth.
In a small aluminum boat off of Willow Creek in Big Sur.
He said a "Killer Whale" chased him in his boat. He said he ran that boat right up on the rocks to avoid it.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I'm sure he was just playin.
Very likely a Dall's porpoise, which are renowned for trying to play with boats. They are black and white and kind of look like very small orcas, and frequently are mistaken for them.
And thank you for the info.
Although, I've never seen any around these parts. But it is entirely possible that's what chased my friend.
We do have a returning pod(Orca's) here in Monterey. They don't return often. Just when the salmon are back in big numbers.
I have a question for you.
Is it possible for an electrical short in a small aluminum boat's engine/battery to attract this Dall's porpoise? And is it possible for the same to attract an Orca?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
There are two populations of orcas that visit Monterey.
First and most common are the transient killer whales, who come into Monterey Bay at times, especially when the pinniped population is high, to feed.
Second and more common in recent years has been the L Pod of southern resident orcas from Puget Sound. They traditionally feed off salmon stock on the Continental Shelf in the wintertime, and used to mostly travel down to the mouth of the Columbia, but in recent years have been observed with some regularity feeding on the salmon at the mouth of Moneterey Bay in the winter.
It's clear they're grinding on the resource out there by the distance they're traveling these days. K Pod has been observed ranging as far north as the Queen Charlottes in winter.
But they all come in to Puget Sound in the summer.
I counted around 12-15 of them. One was massive. They were cruising right up the edge of the coast in Pacific Grove. I'm talkin 30 feet off of the rocks. The huge one had a fin at least 3 feet high. Maybe closer to 4.
It was funny. A few days before, a nuclear submarine was in port here.
I was working on this house when I turned around to see it leaving the bay. All I could see was the conning tower.
Shortly after, still working on the same house, I turned around to see that fin. At first, I thought I was looking at that sub. I did a double take to see the fin and a whole lot more coming out of the water.
Then The big fella started breaching. Doing 180's.
Awesome creatures.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Oh, and I've never heard of a short attracting marine mammals of any kind, but ya never know.
A last note: If your friend really were chased by an orca, there'd have been little mistaking it, unless it were a calf or something (and calves are known to play with boats). But an adult? There's no doubt about it. The males typically weigh 10-12,000 pounds, and the females 6-8,000. Just for the sake of comparison, the largest Great White shark recorded weighed about 5,000 pounds.
I have heard of only one incident in which an adult orca became aggressive around boats: One scientist told me she observed a speedboat make three close screaming passes to a pod of orcas, then pulled over to watch some more. The large male with the pod then charged directly at the boat three times in succession, diving just at the last millisecond and missing the boat.
Mind you, the fin on these guys is six feet tall. I can imagine the driver of the boat was just shitting bricks.
When you get in the water. You get in the food chain.
This was my best friend.
California Surfer Lewis Boren Attacked and killed by Great White Shark. Dec 19 1981
The attack on Lewis Boren is probably the best known California white shark incident. On the morning of 19 December, 1981, Boren had been surfing with friends. After lunch, he returned to surf at
Spanish Bay(This is inaccurate) (He was surfing at Asilomar. Down the beach a bit.)(near Pt. Joe), alone. The last anyone saw of him was when his friends talked to him at 2:00 that afternoon. The next day, two surfers found his board washed up on the shore. A large chunk had been bitten out of it.Lewis Boren surf board bitten by Great White Shark - Jawshark.comThey found the missing piece only a short distance away. It wasn't until December 24th that Boren's body was found. From the wounds, it appeared that he had been lying on his board with his arms stretched out when a large white shark struck from the left side. The shark bit through both Boren and his board. Boren's wound reached from his left armpit to his left hip, and more than halfway across his body. From the tooth count and size of the bite, the shark was estimated to be 17-19ft. long. Water conditions that day were rough, with average temperature and extremely good visibilityWhat is your conceptual, continuity?
Well, unlike grey whales or sharks, orcas have echolocation. Their sense of their surroundings is incredible. Baleen whales can be dangerous to be around because they can be totally oblivious to your presence. Not so with orcas.
I have however seen dolphins (which also have echolocation) hitting boats intentionally. And orcas are in fact the largest species of dolphin. But their assiduousness in avoiding contact with boats is well established behavior.
What part of "have never killed a human being in the wild" do you not understand?
Orcas are not sharks, or whales, or anything else. They are ORCAS. Would you keep your kid from being around a dog just because lions have attacked people?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
What part of wild don't you get?
There are no reported incidents of Orca's killing someone.
It doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And if they have killed a moose. Chances are they've killed other things as well.
A wild creature is a wild creature. I understand that they are very intelligent creatures. But even intelligent creatures have bad days.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
then pretty much every force of nature is wild. And all we know about any force of nature is from observation. So let's talk gravity.
You say gravity only pulls us toward other objects. The more massive the object, the greater the attraction. At least, we have no record of it not working that way.
Now you can go around walking outside without strapping yourself down, that's your call. As for me, I'm anchored.
and confining of any killer whales, or dolphins for that matter.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/254166/...
The Japanese would never go for it!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/254167/
(they have a deep hatred for whales and dolphins)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
...don't play with it.
That goes for serial killers, killer tomatoes, killer waves, etc.
Ya really gotta watch out for them. vicious creatures.:)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
http://www.tvacres.com/images/killer_bees5.jpg
klowns?
killer bunnies
nibble yer bum?
me-oww!
If killer whales killed three humans on the high seas would you call for their extinction? Drivel and poppycock. Three humans out of 330 million, not even worth talking about.
And we call them "killers".
They got the name "killer whales" because early European sailors would observe them hunting in packs to kill and eat the young of baleen whales -- mostly humpbacks and greys. Thus "killer whales" because they were seen as the one kind of whale that would eat other whales. Of course, they aren't whales in the scientific sense at all, but dolphinids. Anyway, for some populations of orcas, this is behavior that continues to this day.
The resident killer whales here are strictly fish eaters. There are transient orcas that come through these waters, and they are more omnivorous, eating especially other marine mammals such as seals and sea lions. They have even been observed eating moose when they swim between islands in the B.C. archipelago.
prevent humans from considering the natural needs and comforts of animals in the wild. Everytime they make a bank deposit off of these gorgeous, but defenseless and helpless creatures of the universe, there is a wicked smile on their face as they relish their wealth but feel no guilt for causing the slow & painful deaths of these poor creatures.
Woody McBreairty
Leave them be in their own space and habitat....I agree 100%!
it would be possible to build a SeaWorld-type facility with an opening to the ocean so the animals could come and go as they please. I'll bet at least a few of them would come back for a visit, but I guess you can't turn a profit that way.
Let's cage Megyn up for ... the rest of her life and see if she thinks she's doing a public service for letting people laugh at her when she claps. Toss this idiot another fish ($),
is intended to be a factual statement
If you respect these beautiful creatures so much, how about you stop calling them "killer whales" and use their proper name, orcas. Because that misnomer just perpetuates the mistaken idea that they are dangerous to humans. As you have pointed out in this article, despite the physical power differential, it is WE who are dangerous to THEM.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
That tiger didn't go crazy...
the tiger went TIGER!!
-words of wisdom from Chris Rock
I'm with ya. They do not belong in captivity.
I've always felt the same about zoos. Has anyone ever observed the gorillas bumming out over being stared at in those close confines? If I was a gorilla I'm sure I'd think the conditions sucked. Badly.
They should all be free , not captives for some marine animal circus and our entertainment .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
In my view, animals, no matter how well they are trained, are still animals and therefore, can behave unpredictably! Roy Horn of Siegfried and Roy, was attacked by Montecore, a tiger that was raised by Horn from a cub. He performed with their act for six years before he decided to chew up Horn... nuff said.
Their homeworld was a place called Earth, located in an uninteresting part of the galaxy. They had an expression: pride goeth before a fall. Their pride was their undoing. I know. I was there....They did not listen, of course. Arrogant men never do.
So if the animals don't conduct themselves in a manner that we deem appropriate they aren't "behaving"?
If anyone is unpredictable, it's our crazy asses. We need to respectfully leave those creatures the Hell alone.
The comedian Richard Pryor once said that when he went to Africa(Congo) for the first time he asked the Congolese "where were the animals?" He said they politely told him to "take his butt into the bush."
.
She's one of those GOP anti-Viagras.
They do have to kill someone every once in awhile, or else they won't be allowed to keep their name.
saw the headlines on this story and said "score on for the whale".
When an elephant "goes berserk" in the circus, tramples the trainer and storms out of the tent into the the streets is it because he's having a good day? Or a good week, good month or good years for that matter? Living it's life in captivity being entertainment for a bunch of numb nut, Happy Meal scarfing, fat asses.
,
The fact that we still use animals for entertainment purposes
just shows what a degenerate, cruel and cowardly species we are.
" Are you entertained"? Maximus Gladiator--you would think we would have evolved by now!
this "Futurama" clip makes a bit of sense ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0JLV_tv0kE ) and fits your "teach them to shoot" idea =D
I lived on the Sunshine Coast in BC and we would frequently go salmon fishing in Welcome Pass, and often when we were anchored in about 90' of water a pod of orcas would come down the very narrow pass, dive under our boat and zoom on their way. Of course all the salmon were long gone so we upped anchor and left, but the sight of those beautiful creatures has made me sick knowing that their brothers and sisters are confined in concrete pools for the entertainment of morons. I'm sorry she was killed, but frankly, what are these people thinking, apart from how much money can they make exploiting wildlife. The people who pay admission to these exhibits are the ones at fault.
Dave, I've been checking out Orcinus waiting to see if you would post something about the Sea World incident, and then it occurred to me that I hadn't been looking here.
Your response to this tragedy is one of the most balanced and reasonable ones I've heard thus far, and thank you for sharing this amazing footage of orcas in the wild.
I've always loved zoos, but since my teenage years I've had mixed feelings about them. On the one hand, I have been able to see and learn to appreciate wildlife that I would not have the chance to without the zoo such as: gorillas, lions, anacondas, and even beluga whales. On the other hand, I feel guilty that these animals are forced to live in captivity, and when I go home after my wonderful encounters, they have to stay there, in a place where they really don't belong. As I've gotten older, I have come to the conclusion that if injured animals are rescued and rehabbed but then no longer capable of surviving in the wild, it makes sense to put them in zoos where they can inspire young minds to love all creatures of the animal kingdom. I also think it makes sense to then keep the offspring of these animals in the zoo, seeing how they would most likely not survive without their parents in the wild (at least for many species). The zoos themselves should be responsible for providing habitats as close to their natural environment as possible. In my case, I always went to Brookfield outside of Chicago. They do an excellent job with this. But catching animals in the wild specifically to put them in zoos is a ridiculous practice at this stage in our societies development.
What do you think Dave? You have given particular reasons that orca do not do well in captivity that I found really enlightening, but what do you think about the practice of keeping animals in general in captivity, especially in the case of animals that for whatever reason would not be likely to survive in the wild?
"None of this fazes the lizard-brain element among us; today on Fox, Megyn Kelly told her audience that someone wrote in wondering why Tilikum hadn't been put down, the same as we do a dog that kills someone."
Huh, I must be a "lizard-brain"...but then again, I have a hard time understanding why an ANIMAL that kills a HUMAN-EFFING-BEING shouldn't be put down.
If it had been my wife, or daughter, I would want to not only 'put it down' but also to see if I couldn't make the creature scream while I was doing it.
I guess I just have this strange philosophy that people are more important than animals...including both whales and lizards.
It's argued that people who torture animals generally eventually become serial killers
And I'm saying that as a carnivore
And I'm hiding my Fruit Loops.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's argued that water is wet
And I'm saying that as completely bewildered as to what you are attempting to say.
And I am eating my schnitzel.
Huh, surreal & pointless posts are kinda fun!!
You want revenge on the animal, even though human are responsible for putting themselves in the position to be harmed by the animal. In this case, they even breached the terms of the contract by making Tilikum perform tricks for profit.
'breached the terms of the contract by making Tilikum preform tricks for profit'......1)From the reports I have read Tilikum didn't 'preform tricks'. But for the sake of argument lets say you are right. Are you truly arguing that a whale that jumps out of its tank and grabs someone, or a person falls into the tank (depending on which report is correct), that a HUMAN BEING SHOULD BE KILLED because of a 'breech of contract'? Really?
'put themselves in the position to be harmed by the animal.' 1)I really dont care...a HUMAN BEING was killed by an ANIMAL. (2) You think it is OK to KILL A HUMAN BEING if they 'put themselves in the position'?!?! That is a very warped sense of justice you have. Let me tell you mine. "If an ANIMAL KILLS A HUMAN BEING without cause that animal's life is void"
But I will work with your 'put themselves in the position to be harmed'.....The whale put itself into the position to be harmed by KILLING A HUMAN BEING.
Fair enough?
As has been very clearly laid out, if this whale had been attacking his trainer, there would have been nothing left. The whale was most likely playing with the trainer or attempting to move her hair out of his face. The biggest issue with Tilikum is that he is so powerful but does not seem to realize how much more powerful he is than his human trainers. So the solution is not to put him down, but to stop trying to play with him.
"clearly laid out" By whom? There was at least one eyewitness report that the whale jumped out of his tank and grabbed the trainer, all other reports claim the trainer fell into the tank.
As for 'trying to move her hair out of his face' and KILLING A HUMAN BEING AS A RESULT....I fail to see how that means the animal that KILLED A HUMAN BEING shouldn't be put down.
It really makes no difference what the whale's motive was (not that the amateur 'whale whisperers' theories aren't simply fascinating), it has killed a person.....thus the only just, and correct decision is to put him down.
I ride and train horses and the same rules apply. They can weigh up to 1400 lbs. and we can ride them and jump them over fences and even back them up; something thing they never do in real life, only because they agree to let us.
The first lesson you learn is to "ask" them for what you want because considering their size, it's hard to "make" them do anything safely.
Still, there are always accidents.
michael vick got sent to prison for fighting and killing dogs; yes, that is worse than confining whales to a tank, but not by a lot.
imagine being confined to a 6' square room for the rest of your life, just for being a human being.
what about bull riding? bronc riding? they do something to those animals to make them buck.
we casually accept cruelty to each other, and animals, in this country; witness the "enhanced interrogation" of recent memory.
there are plenty of peope promoting it, mostly from the right.
excuse me, i have to go throw up.
Snarky?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It may be an unfortunate reality, but without the close contact with wild animals in zoos people's natural indifference would do far more harm to a species. PETA and other animal-rights activists would have you believe that somewhere in our future is a day when humans will coexist peacefully with wildlife. That's a fantasy with no foundation in science or history. People evolved to eat animals, to wear animals, and to captivate them. While, its possible for us to live without that, it is considered undesirable by the overwhelming majority of humans. Its like saying Communism would be great if everybody cared more about society than themselves, but they don't. You'll never get society to outlaw, or the culture to condemn responsible animal use.
Like all activists they believe human attitudes can be changed with ideological fervor. All too often they are willing to destroy the best tools to achieve their goals, because they offend their ideological sensibility. We see this in the way that anti-abortion activists often attack planned parenthood and poverty programs when it has been demonstrated that these tools reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortion.
Like many things over the last thirty years our bad habits have been allowed to run amok. Animal use is no exception. The factory farming of cattle has become such a problem that it has become the chief contributor to climate change. But the growth of ideological polarization around these issues have made solving them in any realistic way nigh impossible.
Enough with this nonsense. They claim it's for study and research. They claim it's so they can protect the animals. Bollocks. It may be true, but it's useless information. And the animals have been doing just fine without us for centuries. So when an elephant decides to stomp on its "trainer," a chimp goes bat-shit and beats the crap out of its "care giver" or when a KILLER whale takes a chunk out of its "researcher," I applaud and say "Well done, lady nature! Give 'em another lesson." Daft, daft, daft.
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