Republicans are clinging to their old 'Reefer Madness' mentality
[H/t CSPANJunkie]
It's funny how Republicans keep talking amongst themselves about how they can get back ahead of Democrats -- usually by reverting to tactics (like the "Contract On For America") that worked twenty years ago but have nothing to do with the shape of America going forward.
Instead, they clutch vigorously to their old standbys even as America changes before them. The classic case of this is the GOP's ongoing affair with immigration-bashing nativists, even as the country demographically before their eyes.
Similarly, they insist on clinging to outdated policies like the "War on Drugs" and the hardline stance that we should basically criminalize drug users and keep relatively harmless drugs like marijuana illegal, even for proven medical use.
But the times, they are a-changin':
A poll by Zogby International released today found that 41% of Americans agree that “the government should treat marijuana more or less the same way it treats alcohol: it should regulate it, control it, tax it and only make it illegal for children.” This represents a striking increase from previous nationwide polls on making marijuana legal.
The Obama administration, at least, is edging slowly in the direction of sanity,having announced last month that it would cease prosecuting people for possession in states that allow medical marijuana.
This policy has the Republicans all a-dither, as you can see in the video above of the hysterical grilling Sen. Tom Coburn gave Attorney General Eric Holder earlier this month about the issue.
Similarly, Republicans on the local level are working quietly to undermine this policy shift. In Washington state, as Lee Rosenberg recently reported for HorsesAss, the state's GOP attorney general, Rob McKenna, has been quietly attacking our medical-marijuana law on his own:
Here in Washington, our state law enforcement officials should be following the voter initiative passed in 1998 (and the follow-up legislation from 2007), not the Federal law. Unfortunately, our Attorney General doesn’t seem to agree. Rob McKenna’s office has been trying to undermine Washington State’s medical marijuana law, and thanks to a Public Disclosure Request, we’re finally able to shine some light on what they’ve been doing.
After the PDR was filed, nearly 800 pages of emails and other documents from the Department of Corrections were recently released to the Cannabis Defense Coalition. They’re broken up into eight 100-page PDF files. The documents are not in any order, so I created a chronological index for easy searching of specific events.
The reason that so much attention is focused on the DOC is because a number of qualified medical marijuana patients have been raided by police and arrested (the medical marijuana law does not provide an affirmative defense from arrest), pressured into accepting plea deals that would keep them out of a jail cell but still on probation, and then put under the supervision of the Department of Corrections. The Department of Corrections would then claim the authority to deny those individuals the ability to use medical marijuana through internal rules that they’d made up after consulting with the AG’s office. They would then easily enforce those rules by administering drug tests. In the end, you had individuals who’d been authorized by their doctors to use medical marijuana having law enforcement interfere with that decision and either force them to stop using that medicine or to use a less effective alternative like Marinol.
This end-around of the voter-approved medical marijuana law worked on a number of medical marijuana patients. Pamela Olson was one victim before her husband Bruce fought his own case in Kitsap County court and won (sadly, they lost their home in the process). It’s not clear, even with the released documents, exactly how many people were affected by this (names are redacted throughout), but lawyers who defend authorized patients have been dealing with cases across the state for several years now and are still hoping to bring some kind of legal action against the Attorney General, the DOC, or both.
Go read the whole piece, which is an excellent example of citizen journalism at its finest. (None of the local media, incidentally, have picked up on the story.)
It's truly maddening that the state's chief law-enforcement officer has been working so hard to undermine a law duly passed (and reinforced) by the citizens of the state. But then, it seems to be part of the Republican condition these days: clinging to outdated ideas because doing so just seems conservative, you betcha.
Incidentally, Rosenberg also posted this graphic recently underscoring just what a waste of our national resources our pig-headed pot laws really are:
They're right. Marijuana causes obesity. First you get stoned, then you get the munchies.
into fast food the past 18 years. That would explain Americans gluttonous appetites for junk food.
Are you talking about...
The fast food and restaurant or the grocery stories.. They place steroids and anti bodies in the meat and than we have the mad cow disease which will not show up for 15 to 30 years after eaten..
Or the vegetables which has the pesticide , preservatives and other ingredients to prolong the shelf life time and kill E-coli , Salmonella and other food poisoning by the way it is half a.. grown and processed..
Bush was so busy right after the Thief of the 2000 election ,cancelling all of the food safety and job safety programs Clinton had put in place , that he and Cheney had no time to check the security of our citizens and country and then 911 happen..
Wonder why the news media is pouncing all over Obama and the democrats after they won in 2008 , yet Bush destroy our food processing , our job safety , manufacturing plants , jobs , military , lies for an illegal war , constitution , treason , torture , freedom , constitution and a total destruction of our economy and they head their heads in the sand for 8 years..
Now they are coming out of the woodwork and trying to pin these destruction , war , national debt which is still from the Bush , Cheney and republican administration..
None
The interesting thing I think is, as Coburn trots the old, "weed is the gateway drug" saw, nobody ever calls that argument out by pointing out, most kids start out getting a buzz from a parents liquor cabinet, than by twisting up a fat one. Or at least that's what I've read.
Oops, don't want to piss off the liquor lobby.
Beer for example turns people into obnoxious idiots. Weed turns them into space cases. How do you win?
than waste any time on a drunk.
me-oww!
I agree.
Not only do you have to clean up the puke of a booze hound, but you also have to clean up the bodies of everyone they kill. Pot heads just drop a few crumbs on the floor.
where someone went out with the boys for a few joints and then went home and beat the wife and kids. Or drove their car at 2 times the legal limit and killed a family.
OK mikeeee quote the article. Otherwsie I'll just think you're making it all up. Were they drinking too??
link??
far left loon >.<
Your reading comprehension is lacking; he's saying "Show me where there's articles about this" because there aren't.
Harry Anslinger told and swore to, back in the 30s to Congress, they worship at his altar. I just have one thing to say to these present day Anslinger wanna bes: Take one of these and mellow the fuck out.
Put the fucking cigar and martini down and do some real work, haters. You're not my fuckin dad, and I wouldn't take this crap off him, either.
me-oww!
have contributed to our ultimate demise. Decisions fueled by this combination has implications which would paralyze any sober individual.
cigars and brandy are the stuff of power mongers.
the martini set only operate with four fingers. their pinkies are in the air too long.
Some stuff you can't make up!
I wonder how many kids these idiots kill every year that come to believe pot is equated with heroin?
MORONS!!!!
more so then heroin. Nixon declared Tim Leary one of the most dangerous individuals to "The Machine" there was during that time.
Acid showed people there was something else to this whole thing besides the obvious.
By the way, for anyone who wants to really educate themselves on pot, hemp and the war on them you should watch The Union.
Don't forget, there's money to be made in drug testing - and let's not kid ourselves, the only "drug" that stays in your system long enough to test is cannabis.
Isn't Bill Bennet (or Rumsfeld, or some damn Republican wanker) heavily invested in drug testing companies?
Steve Cooley, the L.A. DA is also on his own personal jihad against CA's Prop 215, nicely subverting the law that was passed by the majority of CA voters.
The Republican Way
Sounds an AWFUL LOT like the govt getting between patient and doctor. We can't have Universal Health Care for what reason again, Republic Party Hypocrites?
Goin south...
me-oww!
My smiley face kinda dates me - like why double albums like Song Remains the Same or an upside down Frisbee could be so useful.
Kids today just don't understand. The seeds are so few, they save 'em.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Drugs are bad, m'kay?
far left loon >.<
It's a bad thing
me-oww!
:)
Added to favourites
far left loon >.<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEKTSO1scaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3VbSfQ3nAM
Coburn has stated that 90% of those proscribed Medical marijuana do not need it... And he is a medical doctor? Who knows all these cases...
Why isn't he offering his amazing medical skills for fixing health care? He can diagnose people from afar while making up statistics....
Can we start now to make a law penalizing congressmen who clearly make up bullshit and pass it off as fact? We could fine them and the Repugs could pay off the deficit in about a year.
Doctor Cat Killer Bill Frist...
How does he know? Here's a fact I just pulled out of MY arse: 99.9% of those who NEED medical marijuana can't get a doc to write them a scrip.
I know this from personal experience. Marinol is crappy BTW.
me-oww!
The Los Angeles City Council seems poised to crack down on the proliferation of medical marijuana dispensaries that has occurred under California's medical marijuana law, and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said this week that he also wants to see the number drastically reduced.
But those who wish to see pot legalized, don't hold your breath. Legalizing would have to be done at the federal level, where it is currently an illegal "controlled substance." What are the chances that Congress, which cannot even pass health insurance reform without getting into a massive fight over abortion, would stick its neck out (60 votes in the Senate to stop filibuster) to legalize marijuana?
stupid and have made it to the place they are at inspite of themselves.
Because people still fear the weed from the old school talking points. They have no problem with legalized alcohol which kills the user and the and others from drunk driving, destroys families because of alcoholism but weed is the real danger. Bullshit. I have been a user for 30 years. I have had decent jobs that I stay at until to move on to better myself throughout those 30 years. My family has been fine if not great throughout those 30 years. I have never started an illegal ware while stoned. I have never robbed from the middle to lower class people while on weed. I will admit, I have gotten the munchies and downed way to many Twinkies but the problem with this country is not weed. It's politicians like Coburn standing up for the weedless corporate giants and ignoring us. Lets move on from this debate and concentrate on the real evils of this country. The Coburns.
is intended to be a factual statement
Coburn's face is all about pursed-lip consternation and Holder responds with a slight eye squint that says, "Huh?"
safer? Pot is far safer than many common foods.
We can't afford this faked-problem burden foisted upon us by parasites.
Sen Jim Webb (D-VA) Leads the Charge for Much-Needed Drug, Prison Reform
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
The rules forbid Brownback to reveal the names of his fellow members, but those in the cell likely include some of the men with whom he lived in the Family's C Street House for congressmen: Representative Zach Wamp of Tennessee, former representative Steve Largent of Oklahoma, and Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, then a representative and a medical doctor who took the personal as political to new depths when he shanghaied Hill staffers into a basement office for a slide show of genitals mutilated by sexually transmitted diseases, a warning against sex outside of marriage that Coburn underlined by advocating the death penalty for abortion providers. THE FAMILY by Jeff Sharlet (p. 264)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
What about states rights Coburn? dick wad.
That's only to put up the 10 Commandments, or discriminate.
far left loon >.<
By John ("I was an economic hit-man") Perkins:
Poverty, Global Trade Justice, and the Roots of Terrorism
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Was the President's agra guy in on that NAFTA deal back with Billy? The Cowboy-hat dude...Sali-zar? Oh no, another ZAR ;)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
or
poppies in afghanistan?
Some stuff you can't make up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVfE_-ZJAxc
Yeah, but some of those panic attacks can really feel like you're gonna.
is intended to be a factual statement
member of pepper family, can quiet the wildly-spinning wheels of the mind. Traditional intoxicant beverage of Polynesian peoples. Linked with liver damage in some users of prescription drugs, so be aware.
cops make dosage mistakes...
me-oww!
"No one has ever OD'd on weed!"
Gawd knows I've tried, but... wheresamunchies at????
far left loon >.<
If a person wants to use harder drugs they will. The weed does not dictate it. It is not a gateway to anything. As I said above, I've been a pot smoker for 30 years and I have NEVER used any other drug. We'll other than the legal alcohol and cigarettes. But the last two are fine for the Coburns because they are controlled by big corporations who they get election and tax money from. The last two I mentioned are far more deadly yet they don't want to ban them. Why would that be? I want to hear a Jim Demitt who comes from a state that produces the leaves that make cigarettes. The deadliest killer in this country yet one of the most profitable when it comes to raising tax money. Cigarette manufacturing is legalize murder for profit.
Now if you'll excuse me while I take a hit from my Snoop Dogg endorsed bong.
is intended to be a factual statement
started out on milk!
Then I guess they should have started out small. Water. Milk is a gateway to nutrition. We've all seen where that leads. Five hour energy drinks. There's another one. All these phony energy drinks and bars full of chemicals that give you a quick buzz then kill your immune system.
is intended to be a factual statement
Incidentally, Rosenberg wasn't the only one. :~)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
and being fat/obese will do far more to damage the minds/bodies of our youth than pot ever will.
Cigarettes are the gateway drug to pot, are more addicting than cocaine...nicotine has no known medical use, is highly addicting yet it is NOT listed as a "Schedule 1 Dangerous Drug". Why not? Because if the FDA was being scientifically objective about nicotine, the growing/distribution and sales of all tobacco products would be outlawed, the tax revenues would dry up and black markets would grow.
Statistically, 5 million teenagers are fat/obese and will remain that way throughout their lives. This will cost them with diminished health, diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, cancer, loss of self esteem and more. It will cost them and society financially as well.
There are about 1000 pot dispensaries up and running in Los Angeles right now, yet I don't read about a scourge of "potheads" O.D.ing in the streets of L.A. and dying at UCLA Medical Center's E.R.
California needs to lead the way by passing one of four state initiatives next year to LEGALIZE pot and tax it. With bankruptcy looming and Jerry Brown running for Gov., this could happen. California needs to challenge federal law on pot.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
That just means that cops dressed as ninjas should be able to bust down my door at 3:00 a.m. for a Marlboro. Don't give 'em any more excuses.... :)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I personally would be against the criminalization of tobacco use because I realize it would be a hopeless endeavor just as alcohol prohibition failed. Prohibition doesn't work....case in point: Marijuana is the number one cash crop of the United States.
As a Registered Nurse I think we need to be more objective as a country about "substance" abuse.
I believe The War on Drugs is a complete waste of resources and should be stopped.
Education and universal health care is the key to a healthy society, not coercion.
If every American had universal access to medical care with prevention being one of the cornerstones, then we would have weight loss clinics, gyms for "everyone" to go to, stop smoking clinics, AA, NA, CA, AlaNon groups etc. in ALL communities.
BTW, I smoked Marlboros for a year back in 1975. I had just started working as an ICU nurse at Century City Hospital in L.A. and much to my surprise the first day I was in report four of my co-workers were smoking! We'd leave work at 11pm and go to the San Francisco Saloon to drink Chevis with the LAPD guys who had worked the same shift.
One thing led to another and before I knew it I was buying my own. Thankfully I had the will/brains to quit.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Congrats on quitting. I'm envious.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I kept bumming cigarettes, flossing my teeth, using mouthwash to get the taste out of my mouth, chewing gum, eating carrot sticks, eating suckers (especially the Tootsie pops!!!), but I kept failing.
Finally I read an article in The Progressive or Mother Jones about how to quit smoking.
"The only way to quit is to quit."
So I just....QUIT!
If I can do it, you can do it.
And you know what they say? There's nothing worse than an EX-smoker. They're much worse than NON-smokers. Ha!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I had many reasons, health fitness and money. But when an ad paid for by the tobacco industry came on the teevee one night urging citizens to pressure their attorneys general to settle w/ them, I saw red. I thought "Motherfuckers!!! Not another penny!" That was in Feb, 1998, I had smoked for my entire life-in utero, both parents were in the house in the car smokers, I had bronchitis and ended up first handing around the age of 12. I never bought another pack, and haven't had a puff since my last one at 7:30 am on the 26th of Feb, '98...I still want one, though.
Not so with pot. I've gone long periods of everyday use, then stopped for years. Totally different beast
me-oww!
I am a proud civil libertarian. I wouldn't outlaw tobacco either. And I would indeed legalize recreational drug use.
Nothing wrong or oxymoronic with being a libertarian progressive!
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
...he also argued in defense of the Eighteenth Amendment, prohibiting the sale of alcohol. In 1933, however, he voted for its appeal on the grounds that it was futile to maintain a law that could not be enforced.
I think this stuff may be classified as a "sin" to him and his fellowship and or it may degrade one of "The Family's" income streams?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Tobacco, Alcohol and Marijuana. The most deadly are Tobacco and Alcohol. Pot doesn't even come close. Why are the Coburns wasting time on pot when they should be attacking RJ Reynolds and Anhieser Bush? If they are really concerned about the public wouldn't they go after the real threats to the health of this country? But the cigarette and alcohol industry (legalized murder) are way yo powerful attack so lets get sanctimonious an the weed. These people are such dinosaurs and will continue to lose support and all levels.
is intended to be a factual statement
These idiots are still making the dumb-ass argument that Marijuana leads to other drugs. Well, I've been smoking weed for about 24 years now...when am I going to start doing other drugs? I don't drink, I don't use anything even prescription drugs (Don't need them) I don't even take asprin (don't need it). Yet these idiots still talk like they know anything about it. They don't know the people who have medical marijuana prescriptions in CA so they don't know if they have an illness or not.
Also when Coburn says that it's against federal law, don't they argue the opposite (in favor of state law) when it suits them? Oh, that's right, he's a republican, he doesn't really stand for the BS he says he stands for. - I gotta quit forgetting that simple fact.
but bigger government for the issues I want debated and people will vote for me if I use.
is intended to be a factual statement
pot is WAY better than booze.
How? Worst case scenarios:
Drink and drive - what happens? You drive like a maniac asshole 30kmph over the limit and plow into a busload of kids and end up breaking rock until kingdom comes.
Smoke out and drive - what happens? You drive 10kmph UNDER the limit and miss your exit and then get lost on the cloverleaf. After doing a few laps you stop at the Tim Horton's you passed three times, huff down a coffee and a doughnut and then proceed, again, at 10kmph under the limit, to your friends house unannounced and zone out watching Animal Planet.
True story.
Rob McKenna Needs to learn a thing or two from Terence McKenna....
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
-George Carlin
A fact that these GOP hypocrites conveniently overlook in their jihad against marijuana. They continue to cling to outdated propaganda promoted 80 years ago---how typical for a backward looking party that also thinks a 1950's style Mc Carthyite litmus test for candidate qualification is also perfectly OK---even though their Saint Ronnie, the person they named it after wouldn't qualify.
We ought to legalize marijuana and outlaw these flaming hypocrites for the betterment of America.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
laughing fits. Maybe that's the key to our survival at this point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eauSPoxI0gY&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OptIyQqdGpo
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Those were pretty funny links...
You wouldn't happen to have a good YouTube movie for me would you? It's either that or I'll have to watch the UCLA/SC game.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJFY92QSLY&fe...
I'm not sure how complete it is, but it's one of my favorites.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Just keep entering the title and the part number you want, don't try to find them in the column on the right.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Don't be surprised if it's incomplete, my suspicion is Youtube would yank anything that's shown in it's entirity as a copyright violation.
And we're relying on people to upload them.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Sm7jLNtmU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wFV6D3-2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_sIQ36LXmc (saving this one for Xmas)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJjWouxA2qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1yHrqXA88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK4PhkJqTR8
I favourite them and watch later. Lots of old B&W available.
I also watch Alfred Hitchcock presents and The Twilight Zone. These oughta keep you busy.
far left loon >.<
tons of stuff there.
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
-George Carlin
I think I've seen all of them, except I'm not sure about Sorry, Wrong Number, and I know I haven't seen Cool Hand Luke, because I tend to steer clear, so to speak, of cowboy movies.
I've run across Archive.org to watch Der Ewige Jude.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... isn't a cowboy movie - it's a prison movie (and it's great).
[on edit] I saw it many years after it came out. In one of the first scenes Paul Newman gets handed a "weed whip." It's not really what you might think - not a powered weed-eater with the spinning fishing line. It's just a stick with an "L" shaped, serrated piece of metal on the end. A very ineffiecient, labor intensive tool. This was on a chain gang in the South.
Three days after I saw the movie I had to begin "community service." Guess what they handed me that morning ....
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I like Paul Newman. I have others saved, but I have to go now. I used to love (and still do) B&W movies, so I try to remember the oldies and check YouTube. Next time I can post more.
Check for stuff from PBS, like Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot too.
Will check Archive.org. Thanks.
far left loon >.<
!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
...but you're quoting a Zogby poll??? Seriously?? It's inevitably got an expected error of over 41%.
The federal government does not have any Constitutional power to outlaw the use of marijuana! Okay?
Where are the crazy Tenthers when it comes to this issue?
It should be obvious to everyone! Republicans believe the federal government does not have any power to help people, but has all the power in the world to control your private life.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
... a constitutional amendment, but what you can smoke is up to a simple vote.
As an aside: The average sentence in Alabama for First Degree Marijuana Possession is 8.4 years.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
While I think that the Temperance Movement that led to Prohibition was insane, I at least respected its understanding that they needed to amend the Constitution to delegate to the federal government the power to outlaw alcohol. If nothing else, they at least went about it through the proper procedures.
But for all other drugs, gee, can we call the Conservative judges activists for reading in these life-destroying powers?
And you're right. It destroys lives. NOBODY should spend a decade of his or her life in prison for any marijuana-related offense. That's despicable!
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
and big hatreds that the law can be used to manifest.
Some stuff you can't make up!
And the Bush family knows it full well, profiting off of private prisons like crazy.
Private prisons, for crying out loud!
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
... has always been the War on People We Don't Like Who Use Drugs.
George W. Bush was never at risk for having his life ruined for using cocaine. That's for us lesser beings.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
. The federal government gets quite a pretty piece out of a bottle of Grey Goose.
We've all heard the rumor that R.J. Reynolds and gang are just waiting for pot to be legalized and TAXED/REGULATED and sold so they can get their sticky fingers in on the action.
If I had my druthers I'd rather pot be decriminalized AND legalized. This way people who are snobs like me (and avid gardeners) could grow their own or for those who'd rather stop in at the store and buy some and pay the tax on it....fine.
It's like wine. You can go buy a bottle of pinot noir or you can make your own homemade variety and imbibe.
Anything to eliminate the real "criminal" element from the equation.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
The Temperance Movement was largely energized by women that wanted to stop the beatings women endured at the hands of their drunken husbands. It was not enforceable and could only have been a total failure, but it did seek to address a real social ill. It was borne in the right of women to be secure in their own persons.
That's largely left out of the little bit of history we touch on every now and then when referring to prohibition. It was nothing like the motivation that criminalizes marijuana. Alcohol has a very bad effect on some and people dislike it for a reason. My father would occasionally get drunk. That's the only time he beat his kids - very violent dangerous beatings. Sober he was a nice good natured guy that would never hit his kids. Better that people smoke pot instead.
texas?
Some stuff you can't make up!
... you have to stay in Texas.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
But it can get nasty.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
dallas cowboy!
:<[)
Some stuff you can't make up!
:<(]
Some stuff you can't make up!
How about the state government under their police powers?
The only thing is the Fed couldn't stop them if they wanted to allow it.
And doesn't Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 cover the Fed's interest?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Personally, I do not believe that state governments have carte blanche police powers, as, I imagine, many "Tenthers" would. Under the Tenth Amendment, some powers are reserved to "the people." In my opinion, only certain powers are rightly delegated to governments at all.
Consistent with our country's founding document, the Declaration of Independence, I believe that governments are instituted in order to secure our equal rights, one of them being the right to pursue our own happiness. No government may alienate that right from us, and if we pursue happiness by smoking marijuana, so be it. Unless, of course, the state can prove that its law serves to protect all of our rights equally, the police power should not exist.
As for the easier question, yes, if a state does legalize marijuana, I do not see any clause in the Constitution that would authorize interfering, and arresting marijuana users under the color of federal law.
As for the Commerce Clause, I personally believe it has been abused beyond recognition. I see no power whatsoever to flatly outlaw private marijuana use in a delegation to regulate interstate commerce. Frankly, I think that's an insane interpretation.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Personal use would still require buying things off the interstate commerce. That could be seeds, fertilizer etc. They break up operations all the time run from people's homes whether or not they're distributing it.
So the precedent is on the War on Drugs side.
Think of it this way, for years they've been arresting people for roach clips, when all they are is connections that are attached to electrical wire. One can even smoke tobacco through a bong. So it's intended use doesn't seem to matter if it's used in illegal means.
But I agree about the 10th amendment, I always have to explain to the State Righters, that the rights of the people are mentioned twice, the 9th and 10th amendments, whereas the state is only mentioned once. I only brought it up because the Fed keeps threatening to use their VI amendment power to overcome the X amendment legislation that would legalize the substance for medicinal use.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Sure, the precedent is on the War on Drugs side, because the Constitution has been willfully abused. And those are the kinds of arguments that are used: Well, in order to use drugs, you have to buy them, and that's likely on an interstate market.
Nonsense. I can grow cannabis on my own land, and not sell it to anyone. It's still illegal under federal law. Yeah, says the government, because you still have some kind of effect on interstate commerce by not selling what you could. (I'm not kidding.)
With these kinds of arguments being taken seriously, the "regulation" of "interstate commerce" becomes, well, anything the government wants it to be.
Perhaps the government has the commerce power to prevent people from posting to C&L. I mean, there are advertisements on C&L, and people who post there help keep those advertisements going, so we will enact a "regulation." Namely, no more posting there.
Please. Regulate means regulate, interstate means interstate, and commerce means commerce. And jailing you for smoking marijuana in your own home is not regulating interstate commerce.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Actually I wish the government would legalize it for recreational use.
I've wrecked my body through alcohol, although I seem to be able to reverse some of the effect.
I think the government had an interest at one time, because they didn't know what they were dealing with, now they do.
There's been rumors for years that the Controlled Narcotics List was used to criminalize the behavior of certain unwanted immigrants.
Now it may be a question of driving under the influence, something I never did, but I don't think there's a quick effective way to test for THC inebriation like there is for alcohol. Last I heard it takes weeks for the results to come in.
But something like Amsterdam's cafes might be in order.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Personally, I don't think it's the government's job to protect you from yourself. It's the civil libertarian in me. :)
So, I don't think the government, federal or state, really does have an interest in outlawing substances merely because it does not know what it's dealing with. People should be free to take their own chances.
Now, it is the government's job to protect you from me, and me from you. That's a matter of protecting our equal rights. I don't get to violate your rights, and you don't get to violate mine.
Hence, regulations that require those who would sell drugs on an interstate market to comply with health codes. No problem. But outlawing a consumer from smoking them? Big problem in my book.
Oh, and we just got a cannabis cafe in Portland, Oregon. ;)
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I've also heard rumors that alcohol and tobacco lobbies influenced Congress to add marijuana to the list around 1952.
Interesting thing, although it deals with guns, I wonder if the court's opinion in District of Columbia v Heller could be used to invalidate federal marijuana laws as part of interstate commerce clause concern.
But it's best to keep in mind that the interstate commerce clause also helped in some of the Civil Rights cases of the late fifties early sixties.
But then how would restricting it's interpretation affect things like food safety? So much of what's defined interstate commerce came from United States v Swift & Company (1924), which dealt with food safety, interstate commerce v intrastate commerce and the like.
Well, I'm off for my weekly soak in Radox, Pears and Pinaud.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
To the extent that food is imported from other countries or sold on interstate markets, I see no reason the federal government cannot devise regulations for those markets under its Commerce Clause power.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
But that doesn't mean the government has that power to begin with. Our bodies are our bodies. This is a privacy issue and a liberty issue and, constitutionally, the government has neither a compelling interest, nor (in the case of marijuana) even a rational basis for constricting these rights.
If not, why did we need the 18th Amendment?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I don't think the Commerce Clause is even applicable.
If there is an interstate market for marijuana, of course, the government may "regulate" it. It may, for instance, create health standards that growers must live up to. Or require an id check before selling it. But the Commerce Clause can't allow the government to make the whole market illegal, which is what it does. That's crazy.
I do agree that there is neither a compelling interest nor a rational basis. The courts, of course, find a rational basis all the time. They dream up anything they want. Unless the rational is balls-out, blithering-idiot irrational, it's rational in the courts.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
But Supremes say we're full of it. See NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 (1937).
They can reach pretty deep with that.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Oh, I know full well that the Court takes a different stance. Of course, during the Lochner era, the Court would have agreed with me.
It saddens me that FDR and the progressives screwed the Constitution to get the New Deal in place. I do not like the presumption of Constitutionality it convinced the Court to accept. It has since been a thorn in our judicial side.
And I think the use of the Commerce Clause went entirely haywire during that period as well.
But frankly, the Court first lost me (or would have, had I been alive) at McColloch v. Maryland, a terrible decision early on in the Republic that sided with Hamilton over Madison on the Necessary and Proper Clause. (And why wouldn't it? The judges, including Marshall, were Federalists.)
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I believe that governments are instituted in order to secure our equal rights, one of them being the right to pursue our own happiness.
Sorry - wrong document. The "pursuit of happiness" nonsense was in the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution substituted it with "Property", because that is the liberal notion of government - its domain is the enforcement of contracts and the distribution of property. Period. Happiness has nothing to do with it.
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
-George Carlin
Uh, tweakerbelle . . . I wrote:
Don't accuse me of quoting the wrong document. I knew exactly what I was quoting. Our founding document, the Declaration of Independence. Read more carefully
The Declaration says that the reason we institute governments is to secure our equal rights, one of them being the pursuit of happiness. And I agree. Don't you? (I guess not if you call the pursuit of happiness "nonsense.")
As for the Constitution, while it does not explicitly mention the pursuit of happiness, I nevertheless maintain that the right is Constitutionally protected under the Ninth Amendment.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
The only problem is they didn't secure equal rights for AmerIndians, blacks, women or non-property owning men.
And as for whether or not the Constitution protects what it doesn't explicitly mention is problematic, because that would be using a tautology of the IX and X amendments to prove themselves in every circumstance, probably require a review of the Articles of Confederation, and settle the dispute our Founding Fathers could never settle between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists.
But after that I believe with the concept of establishing justice and insuring domestic tranquility, also found in the Declaration, they wanted to limit the ability of the government to reach too far into people's lives like they felt the Crown did.
But I could imagine some tin-pot dictator paraphrasing domestic tranquility for clamping down on dissidents.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
No, they certainly didn't, and that's hardly the only problem. :) In the Declaration they declared such to be self evident, and in the Constitution, the idea was to form a more perfect union. We're still working on it, and if Know Knothing Knation would get out of our way, maybe we'll get there one day.
I don't think it would be all that problematic.
The Ninth Amendment says that the enumeration of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. In other words, there is one construction of the Constitution that is forbidden, namely, that a right must be listed in order to be protected.
From there, we can make a presumption of liberty instead of Constitutionality. In other words, if a citizen challenges a law as a violation of his rights, presume that the citizen is correct, and put the burden of proof on the state to show otherwise. At the federal level, they can show that the law is both necessary and proper to carry out an explicitly listed federal power. At the state level, they can prove that the law is designed to, and actually does, protect everyone's rights equally.
To the extent that each case will be difficult to resolve, well, that's part of jurisprudence. Confronting difficult issues and resolving them within the framework of our country and consistent with the Constitution.
I think Madison did very well resolving that dispute with the Ninth Amendment. It's just that judges have decided to ignore it over the centuries.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
War On Drugs ??
Too high to fight it.
Pass the buttertarts.
Republican mindset a much greater danger to society.
Stoned folks come down and return to normal.
You cant fix retarded though ( Repukes )
are scared to death of anything, includng marijuana, that expands consciousness - they can intuit in their repilian brains that this is a danger to their survival.
Thank You Senator Coburn for letting us know where "The Family" stands.
Okay, now if they will get the f%$k out of the way the real adults can get to work on actual solution to problems.
'Talk to the hand'
like coburn and the rest in "the family" come from? Is there some kind of degenerate pool that they're recruited from?
Only anti-American degenerates could possibly want the things they keep talking about.
And a cop was standing behind me. Waitin for his turn.
I turned and noticed him and said, "Howzit goin?"
He just said ok.
I asked him about the new proposed med marijuana clinic in town.
He said ,eh, maybe. The I said, I thought it should be legal and taxed.
He agreed. Treat it like booze. He agreed.
He even went one further. He suggested it should come out of a pharmacy.
I have a slight problem with that. Big Pharma has it's hands on enough .That's all we need. For them to start growing bud.
The price will sky rocket.
This cop was probably around 65 years old.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Drug czar was totally pro pot. Said that in his decades as a cop he saw how arrests for pot took time away from real policing on violent crime. Between him and Kerlikowske, both were "don't go out of your way for a pot bust."
Breaking Rank
A Top Cop's Exposé
of the Dark Side of American Policing
Norm Stamper
me-oww!
That we waste resources prosecuting pot users is horrible. There are so many better things to do with that money. I read in the Times this morning that one in four kids is getting food stamp support. Damn, our kids are hungry and living in poverty and we spend money on this crap. And the military industrial complex. And corporate welfare (that dwarfs AFDC and food stamps). And.....
Maybe Coburn has a point , it's not obesity it's that devil weed that causes obesity , I mean it does give one the " munchies " .Sheeesh .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
I was going to make a comment on this issue but Ive forgotten what I was going to write..
Lew
Fighting the Christian American Taliban daily.
The biggest threat to our children is corporate fascist idiot republican's.
Thank's to these GOP psychotic assholes, about the only option left for our kids, will be to get stoned and try not to think about the shithole america has become because of morons like Coburn.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
If my father had smoked pot instead of drinking alcohol, he would have come home and eaten potato chips. Instead, he beat his kids. If we have a drug problem, it's with alcohol - which is, in fact, just another drug. I sure wish my father's drug of choice was pot instead of alcohol.
We're willing to break the bank keeping non-violent offenders in prisons. What kind of sense does that make? Incarceration should be limited to those that make others their victim.
It's a joke the way Coburn flaunts his "practicing physician" credits every chance he gets. With the amount of face time he gets on the media, how does he find time to "practice"?
My second question is how much of an idiot do you have to be to have him as your doctor?
Democratic Party progressive, Vietnam veteran and proud Union member for 41 years
on Wiki, this guy suffers from an advanced stage of bug-stuck-uphis-arse-itis.
'Talk to the hand'
Smoking pot gives you munchies. Is that any reason to throw people in jail? Legalize it for recreational purposes and treat it like it was alcohol (18 or 21, license to sell, unopened containers for drivers). Besides the revenue it would make, innocent people wouldn't get locked away with murderers and other real criminals.
Once again California is ready to lead the nation with a smarter way to do things. Soon to be qualified for the state ballot, Tax and Regulation Cannabis 2010 (www.taxcannabis.org) will allow private possession, consumption and cultivation of small amounts of cannabis for adults over the age of 21. It will also allow for the tax and regulation of commercial sales. Time to end this mindless prohibition and both save money from enforcement and generate needed revenues for local communities. Support this important reform.
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