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God bless Joan Walsh. She finally did what I thought no one in the media was capable of doing: She shoved Bill O'Reilly's vicious words back in his face.

Or more correctly, she smacked him with the evil consequences of his reckless and irresponsible rhetoric, manifested in the case of Jim David Adkisson, the Knoxville shooter. And rather than respond, he simply shut up. If there had been more time, I expect he'd have cut her mike.

It was a thing of beauty.

Here are the lines Walsh, who was nastily attacked by O'Reilly the day before, delivered on-air last night on The O'Reilly Factor, to his face, that most of have wished someone would say someday:

Walsh: And you routinely attack, you routinely attack, people on the left, Janeane Garofalo, Michael Moore, who you think their rhetoric leads potentially to acts of violence. It never has led to one act of violence. But you've already driven that crazy guy in Knoxville last year who read your writings and then went and shot up a church and shot liberals, that's already happened once, and you don't feel any responsibility at all, now that it's happened a second time, Bill? Talk about blood on your hands.

The best O'Reilly could muster:

O'Reilly: Miss Walsh, I appreciate you coming on the program. I think everybody knows exactly where you're coming from.

If you watch the video -- I've included the entirety of his exchange with Walsh -- you can see that what led up to this was nine minutes of vintage O'Reilly: nasty, bullying, demanding quick answers to ridiculously leading questions. It started reaching quite a pitch near the end:

Walsh: And look, Bill, you crusaded against him, he had been shot twice already, his clinic had been exploded, his place had been attacked, bombed, vandalized --

O'Reilly: I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry about that. But my constitutional right says, I can say what I say, you can say what you say, as vile as you say it, you can say it, and I would never condemn you for saying it. You are misguided, you have blood on your hands because you portrayed this man as a hero, when he killed late-term babies for casual reasons.

Now, that's just bizarre: He calls someone's words "vile" and declares they have "blood on their hands" in the same breath in which he declares "I would never condemn you for saying it".

Bill O'Reilly "would never condemn" someone for saying what they think? That's perhaps the most outrageous lie, among a steady stream of them, that O'Reilly has ever uttered. O'Reilly regularly, steadily, and remorselessly condemns people for saying what they think. Garofalo and Moore are only the most frequent examples. Hell, that's what his entire show is predicated upon. The reason his ambush crews are so problematic is that they hunt down and harass private citizens merely for saying things Bill O'Reilly doesn't like.

I've known Joan Walsh for many years, and have always thought well of her, despite some philosophical differences -- including, I've thought, not showing enough toughness at times. But after last night, all I can say is:

God bless Joan Walsh.

BTW, below the fold you can see the clip of Falafel Bill setting up this segment in his "Talking Points Memo". It is almost as nastily delusional as what follows:

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Just to back up Walsh's point: Below is an excerpt from the opening pages of my new book, The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right:

In July of 2008, a graying, mustachioed man from the Knoxville suburb of Powell, Tennessee, sat down and wrote out by hand a four-page manifesto describing his hatred of all things liberal and his belief that “all liberals should be killed.”

When he was done, Jim David Adkisson drove his little Ford Escape to the parking lot of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville. A few days before, the church had attracted media attention for its efforts to open a local coffee shop for gays and lesbians. Leaving the manifesto on the seat of the car, he walked inside the church carrying a guitar case stuffed with a shotgun and 76 rounds of ammunition.

The congregants were enjoying the opening scene from the church’s production of the musical Annie Jr. when Adkisson, in a hallway outside the sanctuary, abruptly opened the guitar case, pulled out the shotgun, fired off a harmless round that startled everyone, then walked into the sanctuary and began firing indiscriminately. Witnesses report he was saying “hateful things.” An unsuspecting 61-year-old grandmother and retired schoolteacher named Linda Kraeger was hit in the face with a shotgun blast. A 60-year-old foster father named Greg McKendry got up to shield others from the attack and was hit in the chest.

When Adkisson stopped to reload, a group of men, who had already begun closing around him, tackled him and wrested away his gun. Adkisson complained that the men were hurting him. "The only thing he said was he was asking us to get off of him, that he wasn't doing anything," said Jamie Parkey, one of the men who tackled him. "We just looked at each other incredulously, like 'How dare you?' "

Greg McKendry was dead at the scene. Linda Kraeger died the next day. Seven other congregants were wounded.

A detective who interviewed Adkisson and examined his four-page manifesto reported to his superiors that Adkisson targeted the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets."

When the detective interviewed Adkisson, he said he’d decided that since "he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office."

Knoxville’s police chief told reporters the next day that Adkisson was motivated by his "hatred of the liberal movement" and "liberals in general, as well as gays." He was also frustrated by his inability to get a job, a problem he also blamed on liberals. His neighbors in Powell described Adkisson as “a Confederate” and a “believer in the Old South.”

When detectives went to Adkisson’s home in Powell, they found—scattered among the ammunition, guns, and brass knuckles—books written by leading conservative pundits: Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by Michael Savage, Let Freedom Ring by Sean Hannity, and The O’Reilly Factor by Bill O’Reilly, among others. Adkisson’s manifesto, released some months later to the public, was in fact largely a distillation of these works, ranting about how “Liberals have attack'd every major institution that made America great. … Liberals are evil, they embrace the tenets of Karl Marx, they're Marxist, socialist, communists.”

And then he went the next logical step, in the logic of anger:

This was a symbolic killing. Who I wanted to kill was every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg's book. I'd like to kill everyone in the mainstream media. But I know those people were inaccessible to me. I couldn't get to the generals & high ranking officers of the Marxist movement so I went after the foot soldiers, the chickenshit liberals that vote in these traitorous people. Someone had to get the ball rolling. I volunteered. I hope others do the same. It's the only way we can rid America of this cancerous pestilence.

… If decent patriotic Americans could vote 3 times in every election we couldn't stem this tide of liberalism that's destroying America. Liberals are a pest like termites. Millions of them. Each little bite contributes to the downfall of this great Nation. The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is Kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather.

I'd like to encourage other like minded people to do what I've done. If life aint worth living anymore don't just Kill yourself, do something for your country before you go. Go Kill Liberals.

The events that sunny Sunday left the church’s pastor, Rev. Chris Buice, with a shattered congregation. “People were killed in the sanctuary of my church, which should be the holy place, the safe place. People were injured,” he told PBS’s Rick Karr a couple of weeks later. “A man came in here, totally dehumanized us—members of our church were not human to him. Where did he get that? Where did he get that sense that we were not human?”

___

You can read the excerpts from Adkisson's manifesto at this post.

UPDATE: Walsh has her account up at Salon.

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268 Comments
ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Surely, not my monkey jokes!


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Old Billy's picture

And stop calling me Shirley.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I was hoping someone would respond to my bait.

I'm a master baiter.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s's picture

Isn't that the same Johns Hopkins that came out with the report on detainee abuse by American soldiers that O'Reilly deemed Anti-American and from a left-wing organization that hates America?

General Jack D. Ripper's picture

Isn't that the same Johns Hopkins that in 2004 did a report that over 100,000 Iraqis had died in the first 18 months of the Iraq invasion?

Isn't that the same Johns Hopkins that in 2006 produced a report that claimed well over 650,000 Iraqis died so far in the war???? And, I know that BillO laughed at that report when it came out.

Leadership's picture

O'Reilly and Beck and Rush are going to have meltdowns. I don't see how they

can continue at this pace. Their daily hate dances must be

consuming them.

With Rush it was drugs.

Beck has alcohol.

For O'Reilly it's sexual harassment.

I see all of them reabusing shortly, and very publicly.

Stupid Git's picture

If they do fall prey to their vices again, they will sweep it under the rug and continue condemning everyone else for the world's evils. Like the Sarah Palin's of the world, they can fail to live up to their own standards of piety and still try to force others to conform to those standards. It is just God testing them is all, not their own personal failures like everyone else.

Cramthra's picture

They can live up to their fail standards.

calibpatriot's picture

These right-wing-nuts extremists are enabling their nosedive into complete irrelevancy. Nobody with intelligence higher than that of a cockroach takes any of them seriously anymore.

Fantod's picture

I would be surprised if O'Reilly didn't have several deep dark secrets going on. Joan Walsh wrote that he has demons and I'd say that's a fair description.

We know for a fact that he doesn't understand boundaries when it comes to sexual behavior & he has the mood swings and rages of a chronic alcoholic and/or speed freak. Whatever it is, I think there's more than just theatrics being displayed by that guy.

Edwin's picture

Ego, power, money, greed, substance abuse, sexual predators, right-wing whack jobs, IDEOLOGUES, money, power, galactic egos-- did I miss any?


"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!

savannah43's picture

Then you know what he is.

Fantod's picture

Sometimes people avoid direct eye contact because they're nervous or evasive, but often it's a cultural difference that has nothing to do with honesty.

I'd rather pay attention to what a person says & does than pretend I can see into their soul like Bush did with Putin.

Ricky Bones's picture

He can't refute the Adkisson issue. O'Reilly is making a lot of money by doing what most pundits do, spout off sound bytes to reconfirm what people think they know or makes them feel more informed. Unfortunately Mr. O'Reilly is feeding some unhinged, unpredictable zealots.

nogodsnomasters's picture

instead of "god bless," I suggest "kick-ass" Joan!!

ronhohn's picture

... used the phrase "God bless [America, You, that one]' because I have no idea what it means.
Is it a command - an order - a request - a plea - or a fact - or just simply a wish?
I just know that nothing ever happens after that.


If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem

Stupid Git's picture

Honestly, with all the anger and yelling on shows like O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity and the likes I can't watch them - even in small clips. The hostility burrows into me and I find myself angered and hostile. That said, the fact that people watch these guys regularly and take in all that hate and anger without acting out violently is amazing. If I watched these guys every day I'd probably be driven mad.

I have a hard time sometimes just reading c&l's posts about these putrid spazzis. Its bad enough reading the headlines and getting the gist of whats going on. Waiting for the time when these dudes go down. (By go down I mean ridiculed, off the air, busted for some vise, ect.)

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

The dudes go down on each other?

That sounds Homerotic.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Diabolus est Deus Inversus

There was gay porn in "Illyad"??


If a drone kills a child in Kandahar, do the crying parents make a sound?

Me too. I often don't go past the headline. Today I watched it. Why? I have no idea, but what a waste of time and all that negative energy I don't need or want. It serves no purpose and is unproductive. It is debilitating. Why would anyone watch repeatedly?


"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!

ralfee-mambo's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
Dalton's picture

Why does any reasonable person even goo on the man's show? They must know by now that they will never be afforded the courtesy of being allowed to respond in kind. O'Reilly and Beck and Hannity, etc. all live and die via the ability to completely control the process of presentation and editing of any interview or discussion.

I've stopped watching anything like this as soon as it deteriorates into what we can see here.

Rexhunter's picture

But we must keep up with what the enemies of humanity are up to

breakspear's picture

this sort of comeuppance, and it is so deserved, needs to occur just once by someone with balls bigger than OReilly. he is nothing but (insert any descriptor here, they're all appropriate). he had nothing to say to her, because he realized how he sounded and how wrong he was. she had him and it was fantastic. shove it Bill.

I still can not understand why people go on his show. This is Joe Pine. This is Wally George. This is joining the circus and being part of the clown act. Progressives, please quit appearing at the circus.

watchdog's picture

he's a bit before my time, though I have heard of him. Wally George however I do know, I used to watch his show on UHF back in L.A. His show was nothing more than a version of Jerry Springer (although George came before Springer). I used to watch his show (and Morton Downey Jr) because every now and then he'd have a shouting match with the Klan and that was kind of interesting to watch, his show however was really fake if you ever saw it.

George however never had what I would consider a national show per-se, He was obviously jealous of the newest conservative on TV and was thus my introduction to the Rush Limbaugh show. Fat boy came on and changed conservative TV in the way we are all familiar with today, before, all these shows were like Springer’s, after........Fox news.

Me personally I blame Limbaugh for the Republicans becoming what they are today....republican'ts,thats when far-right crap began bleeding full blown into the mainstream. It lead to the 94 republican't win but when they could not oust Bill Clinton in 96, they went crazy and began their "war On Reality."


When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-

KWillow's picture

sometimes goes on these shows, but he sets strict terms on just what the "host" can or can't do. No interrupting, no shouting, not cutting microphones, and so on. If the show's producer want's the guest enough they'll agree.

If she brought in good ratings Ms. Walsh will be invited again. I hope she specifies certain conditions of common courtesy be maintained.

Okay, I only made to 7:48 in the clip and I'm so fucking mad right now I can hardly type. Bill O'Reilly has got to be the biggest dick I have ever seen on T.V. I'm going to dig out my copy of "Dante's Inferno" and see which ring of hell he is going to rot in.

savannah43's picture

Traitors to Humanity.

So, ninth ring?

savannah43's picture

.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Isn't that a Japanese horror movie?


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

theWalrus's picture

is a tabloid tv terrorist. He really should be arrested for incitement to murder in the Dr. Tiller case. It would be the mug shot heard 'round the world.

savannah43's picture

but define it ourselves. The O'Reilly Factor is hate mongering for profit. It is ignorance feigned or real, as long as it gets ratings. It is appealing to the most base and hateful people in this country. It caters to those with lesser intelligence than normal people or who are so blinded by hate that logic does not exist for them. It is pure evil, as can be seen in the smug face and intellectual dishonesty of O'Reilly.

Rich in San Bruno's picture

O’Reily is a VILE, DISGUSTING BULLY. He’s also a POMPOUS LOUSMOUTH BOOR who thinks too highly of himself. Finally he’s a Horse’s ASS.

Leadership's picture

Mindless hate speech posing as criticism perched on a grain of truth.

So few have said so little with so many words.

Tyler Durden's picture

I did not know concern trolls were up before noon...

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Well, I didn't go to bed before midnight.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

It is that I just find it interesting how some posters just can't help themselves. They talk a good game, but when someone says something nasty about the rightwinger d'jour, their stripes show and can't help themselves. Anything mean about a liberal is completely ignored though... by the same people.

things that make you go hmmm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2Dtfi3VkiU

Livid's picture

Rich in San Bruno - I agree except this was Bill O'Reilly on his best behaviour. Joan Walsh appeared to be arrogant. This is the first time I am thinking "Hey, Bill O'Reilly is good at debating an angry dispersed kook (Joan Walsh). I'm not a troll. Why does C&L have to be against Bill O'Reilly even when he is behaving well. Joan Walsh is a terrible debater this time because she is at war with herself over this issue. [Deleted. If you post something like that again, you will be banned-Sitemonitor]

mudshark's picture

You think Billo was being nice?
wow.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

"She probably had at least one abortion and feels guilt over it."

.
What a vile thing to say about someone. Something you certainly can't prove.
That was despicable. You certainly aren't winning your argument.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

constituent's picture

that ridiculous comment is revealing in itself. i personally don't care if walsh had an abortion and whether or not she feels/would feel guilty about it is her business. i absolutely don't understand any connection with this unfounded comment in reference to this debate.
this comment is obvious to me as trying to influence beyond the facts of this recorded debate. you couldn't just stick with your criticism of the facts you had to add your own to strengthen your agenda. pathetic.

Livid's picture

I should not have written that wild accusation. It was tasteless. I'm sorry.

mudshark's picture

That was an awful thing to say about someone. Medical records are confidential for a reason. Not up for wild speculation.
I think you know that alot of the people here are not knee jerk reactionists. Some are, some aren't.

But, for the most part, most people here are open minded and willing to listen to contradictory or contrary positions. Provided that they're presented with some intelligence and respect for others.

Every once and awhile, I get lucky and come off as sounding somewhat smart. Like I said, sometimes I get lucky.
Have a nice evening. See ya next time.:)

oh, apology accepted. we're good.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

mudshark's picture

When he raises his voice,gets angry, raises his hands, starts pointing his finger, I believe that would be considered assault.If they were together in public of course.
The guy is nuts.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I'm not sure that would be considered assault, that requires not just fear of harm on the auditor's part, but also the impression that they cannot escape.

Think of how many ministers use just those methods in the pulpit.

That's why I think alot of reichwingers can't make the distinction between democratic debate, and sermons.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

savannah43's picture

He wasn't behaving well, he was speechless. A rare occurrence, granted. What are the reasons for your unwarranted conclusion that Walsh is at war with herself? Huh?

Livid's picture

You asked:
>What are the reasons for your unwarranted conclusion that Walsh is at war with herself? Huh?

I said that because he asked her a simple Yes or no question and she kept being evasive. She just knows that she's against Bill O and against the anti-abortion movement. I'll bet she's 10 times better at debating other issues.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

That's probably because she knows that billo habitually uses the tactic of petitio principii, and will use such techniques to try to lead his interview into an admission of a point in question that is not their position.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Nail on head. I would bet that Walsh does believe that a third trimester fetus has some rights under some conditions but knew that if she were to say that O'Reilly would take the ball and run. Plus that had nothing to do with the original debate which was O'Reilly's part in getting Tiller killed in the first place and that O'Reilly was vile. It was like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Nail on head. I would bet that Walsh does believe that a third trimester fetus has some rights under some conditions but knew that if she were to say that O'Reilly would take the ball and run. Plus that had nothing to do with the original debate which was O'Reilly's part in getting Tiller killed in the first place and that O'Reilly was vile. It was like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Edwin's picture

Obviously you're a man. I don't think anyone relishes the idea of having an abortion. It's not all black and white. It's not easy to debate, unless you see it only in black and white; right and wrong.

I know some women who have had abortions. They are not proud of it. They don't make light of it either. But, I understand why they did it, and I would like every woman to have that choice.


"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!

.


"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!

such as a phallic symbol for the far right?

Livid's picture

God Bless Joan Walsh ?? Get out of here !! Get out of here David Neiwert (C&L writer)I've always hated Bill O'Reilly and loved this C&L website. For the first time ever -I'm with Bill O'Reilly !! She made Bill O look polite. Throughout my lifetime - I have had different positions on abortion and still don't know where I stand, BUT CLEARLY BILL O'REILLY WON THIS DEBATE !! REGARDING THE DEBATE ON THE VIDEO I JUST WATCHED BILL O'REILLY CLEARLY WON. He asked the same question over and over (maybe 3 times) because she would not answer. Finally she gave her answer and Bill gave the perfect response .He said "THANK YOU !" Why didn't she aanswer the question the first time?Joan was acting like Bill O'Reilly and Bill was on his best behavior. I still don't know what my position is on abortion exactly but if I were seeing these two people for the first time -I'd think Bill O was a good guy with excellent debating skills and Joan Walsh looked like a kook ! She went off on tangents that were irrelevant. She was angry.

Bill was on his "best behavior"? Are you fucking kidding me? If that's his "best behavior" I would hate to see his worst. You're WRONG!.

And learn how to type using paragraphs and shit.

Livid's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
Uncle Joe Mccarthy's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
Livid's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
marcellajoy's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
Livid's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

Sorry for being rude Livid. I'm sure you are doing a good job. I'm still in my anger mode after watching Bill.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy's picture

watch

as

i

continue

to

increase

its

size

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I can't watch clips, even my own, but he had a point on a person being on his best behavior for himself, but not necessarily in terms of general behavior.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

First of all Livid, I'm a huge fan of profanities. Second, seriously if that clip of Bill is a standard of good behavior I say it's unacceptable. Period.

Your making a little progress in the paragraph area. Credit where credit is due.

Livid's picture

Bill O'Reilly is one of the most disgusting horrible humans on earth.He's in the same category as Ann Coulter, Michelle Maulkin, Rush L. My point is Joan W went on his show knowing his usual tactics and she didn't make the proper adjustments because on a scale of Bill O agressiveness -He was being a 5/10. She could have just answered his questions.

savannah43's picture

She could have punched him in the face, too. Or she could have smiled demurely and acted like a Geisha. Would that have satisfied you?

Livid's picture

You asked:
>"She could have punched him in the face, too. Or she could have smiled demurely and acted like a Geisha. Would that have satisfied you?"

Why are there only 4 choices? How about this one : She could have done what Obama and others have done on his show and just really listened to Bill IN THE PRESENT MOMENT and responded in the present moment. She would have been more impressive.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

That's at least two more than bill was offering her.

Asking yes or no questions often is indicative of an attempt at setting up false dilemmas. It's also a technique that parents use when lecturing an errant child. So when used against adults can be considered insulting and offensive.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Livid's picture

I hear what you are saying....but in this case -it was a fair question. Can somebody write the wording.I don't wanna go back and watch the video. I think it was a very fair question . The way he worded it -it was not like he was setting up a trap. It was an open kind of general obvious question.

boocilla69's picture

reading this, kind of amused, but had to chime in on this. If for one second, you think that O'Reilly is ever about conducting anything close to or even remotely resembling journalism you are very naive. It's never about getting to the bottom of an issue with him, ever. He knows where he wants to go and he takes the interview (I'm using that term very loosely) exactly where he wants it to go.

Livid's picture

I agree. I don't know why decent human beings grant him importance and validity by going on his show, BUT THEY DO. One problem with the Joan Walsh interview is it's a difficult topic. It's not black and white like "Torture" and "invading Middle East countries" and "Finding WMDs". Those topics are easy for us progressives. But ABORTION ?!! Somebody can be a left-winger on every issue except abortion. A republican can get abortions and a liberal can be anti-abortion. Personally I don't like the way C&L is going 100% pure pro-choice as if the anti-abortion people don't have a point. I'm still undecided and I'm 47 yrs old.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Reminds me of an interview with Dan Quayle asking him what he would do if his daughter said she was having an abortion.

He answered he would try to talk her out of it, but let her make the decision.

He then went on to rationalize his anti-choice position with government intervention.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

That's his adult daughter, and she wasn't named Szu-Szu or Sazuki.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

savannah43's picture

Stay out of my womb. You can have any opinion you like, but don't try to force it on me. That is all I am asking.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I'm not that well-hung to go quite that far.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Seattle_Truthseeker's picture

I have been reading this thread and wasn't going to chime in - But I'm going to add to what Savanah said! If you don't have a godamn womb stay the hell out of mine!!

I'm So tired of M-E-N droning on and on about what a woman should or should not do! I've got news for you fellas that think you know so much, we're big girls and we don't need a man to speak or make decisions for us! So - have a baby and maybe we'll talk!

Enough!

maximus444's picture

So you think men should have no say or opinion whatsoever with regards to abortion eh? I wouldn't dare tell a woman what she should or shouldn't do, but how far do you think abortion rights should go if there's no threat to the mother or complications in the pregnancy? Do you think the father should have any rights with regards to the pregnancy?
Do you think there's a difference between a week old fetus and a 6 month old fetus?

mudshark's picture

The father should have something to say. And should be heard and considered.
But, ultimately, it is the woman's decision. I would hope that whom ever the woman is, she would take into consideration the fathers feelings.
But again, it is the woman's choice.
This is just another facet of this topic.
Lots and Lots of grey areas. Certainly not a B&W issue.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

Andy K's picture

Certainly, a man can have his say, but it's only advice, and, until science provides a way for us men to nurture a fetus through until birth, we shouldn't have anything like the rights of the woman who does carry a fetus in her body.

mudshark's picture

I don't approve of abortion. But I am stead fast pro choice.
By using the term pro life they avoid the topic in it's correct terminology,definition, context.
It's about the right to make that decision for yourself without any outside interference.

To assume that we on the left are all anti life or pro abortion is ludicrous.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I don't think it's a question of approval or disapproval, but medical access.

That's why I'm for birth control, and sex ed, so earlier trimester abortions aren't used for that particular reason.

Lucky Ed.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

mudshark's picture
yep

I'm all for contraception.
But the fundies won't allow that one either. The approval is my own opinion on this.
But again, it's none of my biz what anyone does.
It's a personal decision. Not a public one.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Like someone else pointed out, they're trying to write the rules on human sexual behavior. It's all about marriage before babies, but only if the married couple can afford them. So even a married couple might have to keep it zipped, as per Thomas Malthus.

Griswold v Connecticut was over a married defendent's right to birth control.

Yet new laws would allow pharmacists to refuse to fill a doctor's prescription for birth control if it offends their sensibilities and not lose their jobs.

And of course under the republicans the average family has lost much of their ability to declare bankruptcy.

If parents can't afford kids they'd be forced to give them up for adoption, where as we know, most would-be adoptive parents are looking for the Gerber baby.

Even if parents could afford a family, we'd have laws dictating sexual positions and practices between them.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

miss_kitty's picture

Personally I don't like the way C&L is going 100% pure pro-choice as if the anti-abortion people don't have a point.

Well, they don't have a point -- at least not a valid one. They just want control over people they'll never meet.

how stupid can you be and not be caught by Darwin?

mudshark's picture
Oh

But it was a trap.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

You have quite a sense of humor, Livid


Bruce C Johnson

Cramthra's picture

baddenbadden is bad(ass). False dilemma is meat and potatoes of many a bank account.

Livid, he is a digusting horrible human being along with the other one's you mentioned, but I fail to see why you are sticking up for him. Do you ever watch or listen to PBS or NPR? There is never any screaming over the guests. They act like adults. Bill NEVER has an interview where he's not screaming his guest down, unless it's some right winger he totally agrees with.

Peace Livid.

savannah43's picture

Judging from the looks of him, he hasn't any might. He probably doesn't even wear pants when he's on the air.

Livid's picture

I don't watch PBS or listen to NPR. What is NPR ?
I totally agree, but Bill did not scream at Obama .
Actually I wish that no liberal or democrat or left-winger or progressive would go on his show. Why grant him importance. He is a monster in my opinion. Why don't all non-right-wingers refuse to be seen on his show ??

savannah43's picture

!

maximus444's picture

Just wondering.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy's picture

he asked the same question over and over again

keep it up...you will get this nick banned too

constituent's picture

you don't get it. walsh is very familiar with o'reilly's behavior,his leading question(s) and negative framing/format. o'reilly is very much in control of his environment
with time constraints,leading questions,time management and interrogation like role
that he has during many interviews. i believe walsh disarmed and revealed o'reilly for his hypocrisy. walsh maintained her kill him with kindness approach. o'reilly often tries to get the opposition to debate on his terms to set up wrongful equality/hypocrisy. o'reilly is wrong period. he's courting the evangelicals/extremists. late term abortion may be "wrong" to o'reilly but it's legal. he has constitutional rights to speak his opinions but they can also be pointed as wrong by some. walsh revealed a hater and a hypocrite that's winning in mind.

I still don't understand why BillO was consistantly singling out Tiller for his ire. Shouldn't he be shouting down all abortion providers, no matter how long the pregnancy is along? Or, is it that by the third trimester, the fetus looks more like a "baby", so then he feels justfied in calling Tiller and his ilk "baby killers"?


If a drone kills a child in Kandahar, do the crying parents make a sound?

After years and years of spouting hate and venom, you want to praise him because he said "Thank you" to someone one time? Sarcasm is a concept you are not familiar with, isn't it.

Livid's picture

I'm not praising him. My point is many people who are in the middle will lean towards him on this one. She did not do a good job. I would bet that when Joan looks at the tape -she'll be full of, "Oh, damn it ! I should have said this___I shouldn't have said that ! I should have shut up at that point and let him speak "etc.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

That's the nature of any kind of interviews, on both sides as well.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

shooting her mouth off. Why are you so intent on making her wrong?

Livid's picture

Savannah wrote:
>shooting her mouth off. Why are you so intent on making her wrong?"

I thought that the statements in the video Bill showed was a cause for concern. Tons of late-term abortions for any old reason sounds unethical to me. Joan did not dispute it. She went on the show without knowing enough facts on the issue. She tried to go off-topic twice. Guns issue is irrellevant and nasty things Bill O has said in the past was just another attempt to derail the topic. He stayed on topic!! She did not !! She lost the debate.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Late-term abortions are for saving the woman's life, who could go on and have a whole gaggle of kids.

Unfortunately, doctors have to make that sort of decision, like seperating Siamese twins, where one might die in the process.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

savannah43's picture

How does one go about disputing ANYTHING with that loud mouthed control freak. Huh? You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.

miss_kitty's picture

and WHY do you believe the lying assholes who have no proof of their claims? "...Tons of late term abortion for any old reason..." like a FUBAR fetus? or the mom's health?

The Anti Choice groups have these 'wanted to go to a concert, so terminated at 8 months' crock of offensive fucking bullshit stories with no proof. No ethical doctor would do that, so just STFU with your unsubstantiated claims. There are plenty of those being fomented by the right. Those claims are offensive to doctors and as a woman, I am highly offended you would parrot total and utter shit like that here.

Put up or shut up. You are making shit up, and stating it as fact. How dare you.

Link on your claims, take them back or you are a fabulist and not worth the time, because you aren't looking for an honest discussion, and I think everyone here should know that.

Livid's picture

Miss Kitty : I don't remember the exact words said by Bill and that psychiatrist. I was just paraphrasing what I thought they were implying. If it's a bunch of lies from fundamentalist extremists, then I don't want to believe it. Bill looked like he was prepared with facts. If it's lies - I'm sorry I was fooled.

Tyler Durden's picture

as some of them seem to be at passing the buck... we would live in a much much much better world.

miss_kitty's picture

of dutchie myself.

:(

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Diabolus est Deus Inversus

mudshark's picture

That certainly needs to be corrected,
hmmmmmmmm? I wonder?


What is your conceptual, continuity?

mudshark's picture

Except bs.
have a nice day. Buh Bye.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

Edwin's picture

Is this what you think abortion is about?

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/06/09/t...


"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!

mudshark's picture

She'll regret not putting the question in it's proper context.
As in "Viable".


What is your conceptual, continuity?

boocilla69's picture
Umm

no they won't. At this point, I would imagine that Bill's audience is pretty set. Watch the whole show sometime and see what kind of advertising occurs during the show. His viewers are old, dilapidated (dicks don't work, etc.) and full of anger. They enjoy that he lectures his guests, cuts them off and talks to them like they were children. He's king with the geriatric set, but those under 40, not so much, and those under 30, he probably reminds them of their asshole fathers.

marcellajoy's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Repitition is usage.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

There's that booty hole symbol again.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Diabolus est Deus Inversus

sixandseveneights's picture

Debating skills? What debating skills? Bill shouts down Walsh as he does most of this guests on the "left" and gives them about 5% of talking time to his 95% of shouting time. At least he didn't shut of her mic, his usual MO.

Debating skills. Go back over to Redstate troll.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy's picture
[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

Livid, evidently my apology to you has been deleted. Not sure why. Anyway, what I said is I'm sorry for insulting your profession. I'm sure you do a fine job. My anger sometimes gets the better of me.

[Sorry. I deleted a main comment, and every comment attached to it was removed at the same time-Sitemonitor]

Livid's picture

Thank you marcellajoy for the apology. "Sixand seven eights"told me to go back to Red State. I'M IN JAPAN and I hate the right-wing kooks. I think they are destroying the earth/destroying mankind.
I'm sure (or I guess) that Joan W will look at the tape of her talk with Bill and think of ways she could have done better.

I love Japan. Korea here.


"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!

At least we agree on one thing. Right wing kooks suck ass. Oh yeah, more profanities from me.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Well my monkey went MIA.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

miss_kitty's picture

probably objected to all those spankings

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/king-missil...

(NSFW probably)

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I hope the Right-to-Life Police aren't after my ass

Unless they're cute.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

That's what you get for spanking it too much.

(Oops. Next comment down got to it WAY before I got on this thread.)

savannah43's picture

piss you off, don't they. Who wrote the rules for their debate? If she doesn't want to answer a question, she doesn't have to. And then you are free to infer anything you want from that. But just remember what you infer reveals much about you.

Livid's picture

But why didn't she just say "yes" to his question?? How would that have trapped her???? Somebody tell me please. It was not a "When did you stop beating your wife "type of question.

savannah43's picture

"Beating your wife," hmmmnnnn. I do not know what was in her mind. Do you? Why are you so intent on criticizing her? Why is it so important to you that he wins, and she loses?

Livid's picture

You asked :"Why is it so important to you that he wins, and she loses?"

No, I prefer that Bill loses because I hate him with a passion. Joan Walsh is a great writer and blogger. She's a good human being.
I said he won.I did not say I'm glad he won.
Why didn't Joan just say "Yes" immediately to his question ???

savannah43's picture

Just accept the answers already given...wait a minute. This form of "argument" reminds me of someone else. Who could it be?

mudshark's picture

He was looking for a sound bite. And she wouldn't give it to him. Welcome to the ludicrous world of Billo and Faux nooz.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

boocilla69's picture
He

always "wins," it's his show.

mudshark's picture

It was a loaded question. She knew it wasn't in it's proper context.
I agree she should have put the question in it's proper context.
But I imagine it's difficult to think fast and clearly when someone is angry and yelling at you.
If you still think Billo was on his best behavior, I suggest you watch the video again. Just for context.

That's his style of tabloid journalism. He makes people flustered with his attacks so they have a difficult time responding.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I can't ask loaded questions anymore

Doctor's orders.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Generally the practice starts with a soft-ball question and then follows a series of other questions intended to trap the interviewee.

She cut it at the roots.

And general journalistic practice is to have your questions, but let the interview grow gestaltically.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

LibertyLover's picture

is that she didn't want to give Billo a sound bite that he could use over and over again. Out of Context. That's what he would do.


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Mebbe billo could use a sound bite

Or is that advocating violence?


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Biff Limbaugh's picture

it's now got to the stage where bill o really is posting here.

virtue's picture

a pretty good rundown of what "rights" are: http://www.strike-the-root.com/91/scarmig/sca...
http://www.strike-the-root.com/91/scarmig/sca...
Abortion sucks but I don't see how the case for fetus rights can be made.

savannah43's picture

During a class I was once in, we were discussing the ethics involved in performing medical procedures on unborn children. One man stated that if the mother refused to allow surgery on the unborn child she was carrying, then she should be forced to have it even if there was a strong possibility that she would die from the surgery. I asked if he advocated police enforcement on that, and he did. This is how these people think.

LibertyLover's picture

It relegates women to the role of being a vessel for another being. Voiceless. As if once they become pregnant, they cease to have any rights at all.

Do all of women's rights transfer to a dependent being that may or may not come to term? Astonishing.

In all of Billo's rantings, not once does he consider the rights of the mother. She ceases to exist in favor of a third term fetus. And remember... only 1% of all abortions include this category.


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.

I don't believe for a minute O'Reilly feels one bit of remorse for Tiller's death, the libruls that were shot in that church or any other killing he incites. Truth be known he's glad for Tiller's murder as he retreats from any responsibility. The reich wing thinks Letterman should be fired over sexual joke made a Palin daughter but not one word about Bill O and his fellow rabid right wingers loosing their jobs over remarks they make that lead to the deaths of innocent Americans.

mudshark's picture

There he goes again. Having a meltdown.
The guy needs a shrink.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

He has a life-time presecription for Viagra.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

mudshark's picture

Between Billbo and Boss Rush. The thought of those two with viagra, is very disturbing.
Why did you have to go there Y?
I have enough disturbance in my life right now.
end, yuck.


What is your conceptual, continuity?

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