Teabaggers' town-hall target describes the growing 'verbal violence'
The wheelchair-bound woman who was shouted down by that crowd of teabaggers at a New Jersey town-hall meeting on health-care reform hosted by Rep. Frank Pallone was on MSNBC yesterday with David Shuster and Alex Witt, and she provided a deeply disturbing portrait of what is transpiring at these gatherings.
The woman, Marianne Hoynes, described how the forum was invaded by organized teabaggers from New York, "so this wasn't even their town-hall meeting."
Hoynes: There was a large group of people who showed up that night for the purpose of making sure that questions couldn't be asked, and we couldn't hear information. I don't know how to describe it any other way.
... You know, you could tell that they were very organized. They came in groups, they had signs ready, which -- outside they were chanting, but as time went on, and certainly by the time we got into that room, which held about 500 people, they got more and more verbally violent -- I don't know how else to describe it.
They began by just screaming and yelling at Congressman Pallone that he should have been aborted, and that his mother should have had an abortion, that he was a domestic terrorist.
... What they did was completely un-democratic. I wanted to learn more about this health-care system. We were allowed to either ask a question or make a statement, and I wanted to share with Congressman Pallone what it was like to be sick in America today. And I had that right, I thought. They really tried to scream me down -- and everybody else, too, not just me. And I felt bullied, and I was not gonna take it. I was going to finish what I had to say, and it was very upsetting. It was very un-democratic, and very un-American.
Town-hall meetings are supposed to be exercises in democracy. But the teabaggers are turning them into exercises in para-fascist intimidation, eliminationism, and general thuggery.
Teabaggers are acting like, hum, fascist!
And because we should not forget:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/bri...
Teabaggers ARE fascists
I know they are!
right wingers are fascist.
who are corporately run?
Girl Scouts? Boy Scouts?
If we're going to call the Tea Baggers fascists because we believe they are "corporately run", then we cannot afford to be disingenuous and not label many of the Democrats with the same label.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
You are wrong, correct yourself.
Many of the democrats ARE fascists. Fascists are by definition a small group of corporatist elites that run the country and use wedge issues to divide the people. Max Baucus - fascist, Kent Conrad - fascist, Ben Nelson - fascist, etc..., it just means they are corporate whores.
The teabaggers fit the definition to a tee, and they don't even know it - because they are too friggin' stupid to own a dictionary.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
They are stooges used by fascists to distract from the greed and corruption being done by the corporations. The tea baggers don't have any real power. Or brains, either. I think of them as "teabots."
Tea Baggers are not just "corporately run" they are violent, fascist thugs, who are collectivelly flipping out because their political views have led to nothing but unmitigated disaster fueled by their hubris. And having a black man for our president seems to be too much for their wee little bigoted minds to handle.
So yeah, when you have roving bands of violent Democrats pulling stunts like these, then sure... you can then equate some Dems to these tea baggers.
Move on, acorn, seiu
These organizations actually do something worthwhile for America, your teabagger pals are big mouth bullies that need to crawl back under the rock that they crawled out from.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
... trolls say the darnedest things.
This isn't Malkinville or Freeperland, you have to do better than that here.
You mean like these? Starting about 3 min. in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sCqC6cdxgU&NR=1
Oh and bat breath? Is that the best you can do? Honestly. I know you can do better, reach a bit.
Timjoebillybob...
mindless trolls go on ignore...
What the hell does acorn have to do with fascist goons invading healt care meetings?
Is this your other option to the "Clinton's fault" approach to disourse.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZc-i_rEGWA&fe...
1:35 in
this mornin' b/c alot of people seem unaware:
MARCH FOR HEALTH CARE in a city near you.
http://www.marchforhealthcare.com/home
September 13th @ 12:00 PM
I plan on attending in Seattle. Hoping the media will cover THIS one, as they FAILED yesterdays 1000+ HC March.
I do not support "The Public Option".
I support H.R. 676 "Medicare for All".
Let me know when there's a march in a city near me for health care I can REALLY believe in.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Lets follow Barney Frank's example, and if we on the left are confronted face to face by verbally abusive right wing morons, rather than fall to our knees, dish it right back to them.
These right wingers are bullies (at at their heart, cowards), and I suspect if you stood up to most of them, they would back down.....
And if the right wingers get violent with you, no need to get into an all out brawl-just press charges for felony assault and sue their asses..
But if cornered, of course defend yourself...
I could see a group of right wingers beating up on an elderly or disabled liberal personst to give you an idea of the scope of right wing cowardice...
yup. stand up to the whorish bullies.
I wish I had said that.
http://lemurking.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
.
If they attack just bite their fingers off.
http://www.paskesz.com/big/lady.jpg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
.
I wouldn't advise that; you might catch something!
Well, okay, you can do it, but be sure to spit it right out and then rinse your mouth with Listerine and take extra vitamins afterward.
And don't forget to floss.
This is how I deal with them. I encountered this idiot last October.
Danger danger, warning warning.......
You are not going to believe what happened to me on Saturday.
I was going to park in a strip mall in order to pick up my wife. A large black truck pulled in front of me to turn with a huge McCain/Palin yard sign attatched to it that said "real leadership, from real leaders." When I read that, I started cracking up laughing and shaking my head. I proceeded to park my van and call grandma at home (who was watching the kids) to see how things where going.
After a five minute phone call, I got out of my van and was putting my cell away when I heard someone yell "hey you." I looked up and it was the dude in the black truck. He points to his giant sign and growls at me "you got a problem with my sign?" Immediately I stopped and thought, I'm not taking any crap from this right wing moron. Our exchange went like this:
NoGWB: Anyone who would even consider voting for that guy (McCain) after the last eight years, has to have a screw loose.
Right wing idiot turns beat red and goes nuts!
Right wing moron: Oh yeah, why you driving that g** d*** piece of foreign sh blahblahblah (I have a new toyota van).
NoGWB: Funny you should bring that up. I have bought twelve Fords since 1991. But since ALL 7 of my brothers and brother-in-laws lost their jobs, I decided to get the better investment this time. If just one of the hadn't become unemployed under McCain and the republicans, I would have still bought another Ford.
RWM: Oh yeah, (literally spitting mad) well I hope you loose your job too!
NoGWB: Well, if that idiot McCain gets elected I probably will, along with everybody else who is lucky enough to still have a job. In case you haven't noticed, jobs disappear under republicans! I then told him he either wasn't very observant, or he just wasn't very bright, because its as obvious as night and day. Then I told him I hoped he would loose his job too!
RWN: (Jumps out of truck) Well I'm retired pal. I don't work anymore.
NoGWB: Well when the stock market - thanks to republicans - goes down to 3000 you won't be. You'll be working for $3.00 an hour too eat poison from china bought at Wal Mart; which is all your republican buddies think your worth!
RWM: Yeah! You no good commie, pinko, socialist (some unintelligible bullshit), etc.........
NoGWB; In case you haven't noticed, the pinko's are on Wall Street getting their socialist hands all over the communist government run by your republican pinko socialist commie pal's. You are an idiot, and incredibly boring! (I then walked into the store as he swore some more).
When I got inside I noticed he was still behind my van. I thought he might slash the tires. It looked like he was taking my liscense plate number. After about 30 seconds I walked back outside to see what the idiot was doing. He took off finally.
i told my wife, "if some NRA nut shoots me from the field across the street, he will probably be driving a black truck with a giant McStupid sign on it."
The rerason I write this post, is to warn all GOOD people to beware of these mean, hate filled angry assholes, who are being incited by the Rove scumbags. Their entire world of lies is crumbling around them, and they don't have the intellience to understand why. They really are very sick. All I did was laugh at this assholes sign, and look at how he reacted. Beware.......
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
Right wingers are notorious for slashing tires of cars that have any Democratic bumper stickers....
Even on the highway, i have read numerous accounts of road rage, where right wing psychopaths tried to run someone off the road because they were offended by Obama or Kerry bumper stickers...
Of course if you live in a city that is very liberal, like Berkley CA, Burlington VT, New York NY or Cambridge MA, right wing psychos might not be proactive in their violent tendencies..
I am not in the least bit intimidated by them.
I have made several of them STFU by offering a "bet" that I can prove them wrong. That makes them back down pretty quick, and it's more non-confrontational!
Besides, I am also more than capable of stuffing their fat pasty asses into a garbage can if need be.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
I'd be interested in cites that show that right wingers are notorious for slashing tires. Or cases of road rage because of Dem bumper stickers.
I'm serious I'd like to see proof of your claims.
Carolina. Oklahoma, Arizona, Kansas, Nevada. What are the other red states? Pick any that appeal to you. Georgia, Alabama, Parts of Florida, parts of Texas, if not most of Texas. Get the picture Timmy?
like what would happen to a person driving through Gary/Harlem/DC/Chicago with a anti-Obama or pro Repub sticker? Or most of So. Cali? Or any other blue state that appeals to you? I can do it also. Again do you or Tom have any cites backing up your claims? If you come up with some for your claims I'll come up with some for mine.
I feel like it. Fuck off, Timmy. If you wanted to have a real discussion about anything, I would indulge you. You are just trying to make yourself feel superior by baiting liberals, and that will not work. There is no way on earth you will ever feel superior to anyone here.
I have to amend that last statement. Look for Rick Shaw's posts. You two can duke it out.
you answered to me. Why do you think that? Inferiority complex perhaps?
I don't come here to "bait" liberals or to feel superior. I come here to hear the other side, and to engage in good discussions with the other side because no one learns anything by staying in their comfort zone. If I draw you out of your comfort zone so much the better because then perhaps we can both learn something.
Ask Mudshark we have had some good discussions before and I think we both respect each other, I know I respect him because he stands up for his beliefs and is willing to discuss them. Rather than just attempting to trade insults.
and talking on my cell phone while I waited my turn to order.
Suddenly I realized a man was standing at my car window. When I said hello, he asked me if he could ask me a question. I said sure, thinking he was lost. He was. Very. He started going on about why I like killing babies. WTF?
Turns out he had pulled into line behind me and was oh-so-righteously enraged by my Kerry sticker. Cause you know how Kerry liked killing those babies. Had 'em for breakfast everyday.
My friend on the phone is asking me what the hell is going on, do I need the police called, and meanwhile the freak outside my car window is gearing up into hyperdrive and I'm wondering if I'm a good enough human to call 9/11 and give this insane person CPR when he blows an anuerism, or just let Darwin's Law take care of it.
I'm sitting there with my mouth hanging open because I frankly can't believe this whole thing is happening. The freak wraps up the show with a wonderfully, hysterically pompous admonition that I should be watching Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and listening to Rush Limbaugh and then I'd know the truth, after which, he turned and stomped back to his gas guzzler.
Guess he told me, huh?
I love that while he's ranting and raving, you're wondering if you're a good enough human to save him if he blows a blood vessel! Still chuckling...
http://freethoughtpedia.com/images/Hindu-thug...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I really wish there was a way that these idiots along with their representatives and their heath care and their economy and their hate and their stupidity could have their own little place (Like Texas? Or Kansas or Mississippi?) where they could live their lives the way they want and be ruled by the Tom Delays and the Eric Cantors and the KKKarl Roves and the Dick Cheneys. They could have their one television network that they watch, Cluster Fox, and have Limbaugh and Savage and G. Gordon Liddy shouting from their radios and have Michele Malkin as their home page on their computers. It would be nice for them to get exactly what they deserve. Shit, that would be so nice.
is that if the fascists win, we may all get that.
nicest state in the union and they would no sooner unpack and they would be coveting whatever we have and making up reasons to declare war on us - and blaming us for having to do it.
Cause they're crazy as well as mean and nasty.
No, giving them "their own place" wouldn't work and wouldn't be fair, because there are always the innocent among them, and there is always that minority who for one reason or another begin to wake up and change their minds. It'd be awful for them to be trapped in with the evil ones.
If these, folks were given their own place, where it was only them in their exclusionist utopia, free of the presence or influence of all those they hate, within a matter of days they would be turning on each other like sharks in a feeding frenzy. Their world would almost certainly be structured along strictly totalitarian lines, as an outcome of their domionist authoritarian personalities, and within short order they would be persecuting their "enemies from within". Their society would be deeply exploitive and extremely hierarchical, wherein all those who currently serve as their minions of Straussian "useful idiots" would be the prey class for the predator elites who would quickly establish themselves.
In short order, their state would resemble a mix of equal parts, East Germany, Somalia and very likely Pol Pot's Cambodia. Because the basis and justification for their entire world outlook is based upon exclusionist hatred, fear and exploitation, and being that their personality type does not hold much hope for attaining to a wider, more sane view of things, there really doesn't seem much hope that their kind of society could survive as anything except a massively and deeply failed state. Finally, they could be expected to be aggressive towards their neighbors and the world at large; I would expect that they would thus be under UN sanctions in short order in response to habitual crimes that seem to be the favored repertiore of rogue states. The rest of the world would probably end up in a united military venture against them, as a matter of self-protection.
I say we give them Texas and let them have a go at it.
That's how they roll.
When they have nuthin, verbally abuse them. That's one of their motto's.
Here's the other one.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
DemocracyCapitalism in action.CapitalismFASCISM in action...Same thing ...
own intelligence level:
"F--- you! You F---ing F---ers!"
"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life."....Muhammad Ali
http://www.bartcop.com/dear-republicans.htm
Enjoy!
Face these fascist's down. They go down fast(4 minutes or less cause their kids are there). They get mad. Then flustered. They spit all over themselves (trust me, I love to fluster a bully) Then they lose their train of thought and they can't do anything to you because what they want to do is AGAINST THE LAW!
The law is here to protect you. These rent a mob types really have no clue.... COME TOGETHER...FACE THEM DOWN.....YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT! BE AMERICAN.....DON'T GET MAD....GET EVEN. Just go "pack mental" on them.
The Bully Basher
Bullies are cowards.
But sometimes debating the right is a waste of time- I encountered one right winger who painted himself as an 'expert' on the Constitution- I had to ask him if he knew who was the main writer of the document? He said 'George Washington'. Ah, no... I told him James Madison...did he know who Madison was? Of course not....
Remember, these people admire Joe the Plumber BECAUSE he is an idiot, and these are the fools who don't want evolution taught in schools. They are PROUD to be ignorant.
And if they do attack you, they get arrested, and you win a lawsuit for assault and battery...
He was the husband of the lady that makes cupcakes, right?
I heard Dolly was a cupcake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyUl0aYK8Ws
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
At my town hall I was speaking and some lady (woman, bitch?) interrupted me. I turned around, looked her straight in the eye and said "Excuse me maam, I am speaking. If you wish to address the congressman I suggest you get in line and wait like everyone else." Bitch.
High Fucking Five!
NOBODY 2012
did it work?
I think I recognize the ballsy attitude.
The representatives and senators who are conducting these meetings need to observe Robert's Rules of Order. They need to announce at the very beginning of each meeting that anybody who speaks without being recognized will be ejected from the meeting on the first offense. Anybody who engages in tumultuous public disorder will be arrested and prosecuted. Let the police serve as the masters at arms for each meeting. If the police refuse, then hire private security, and let the represenatative or senator, together with those whose rights to assemble in safety have been stepped on by the tea-baggers press charges for disorderly conduct or assault (credible threat of battery) agsainst those who are arrested. It is nothing more than controlling the meeting, the same as they would do in public hearing in the halls of congress or a city hall meeting. why should these meeting be any different?
More, they all need to take an example from Barney Frank, who is effective, because he is not at all reluctant to step up to the plate and explicity name the game of these clowns, as their game unfolds. It is astonishing how many people abet these guys, because they cannot overcome their conditioning to remain polite in the face of those who are depending upon that reluctance to further their antics; it's a form of predation that requires the help of the preyed-upon to succeed. It is almost pathetically easy to thwart this kind of predation, but for some reason, only Barney Frank seems to have figured that out. The representatives and senators need to get it through their heads that they don't owe the tea-baggers anything, not the time of day, not even the least of common courtesies.
I feel like I live in Austria. Right beside the brownshirts and watching as the 'Good Germans' are cowed into submission. I can't imagine people acting in such a way except perhaps at Family Thanksgiving.
The Corporate Interests are tapping into the racist undercurrent of white america and making them fear the 'black man' WITH POWER.
If GWB did this they would be fine with it, but because of the inherent racism in america and the fear that has been ingrained in many of them, they will willingly believe that somehow they are losing 'THEIR' country. (as if it is theirs and theirs alone!)
The TV reinforces the white suburban lifestyle 24 hrs a day 7 days a week and blacks are 'supposed to be' second class citizens in their minds. They 'whitify' models, actresses and show only 'token' black people in shows because they were forced too by the 'censors'.
This is despicable and has been for years. (Could you imagine the Canadian show 'Little Mosque on the Prarie' being played in the US? My god they would just flip.)
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
This is not the first time I have heard that these violently verbal thugs have offered their opinions that the politicians mother should have aborted them or that abortion was the answer for people like them.
I thought that these people were against abortion?
Why is it the answer to their prayers but yet they deny it for others?
Why are we putting up with this? Why are people who are disruptive allowed to disrupt? What kind of examples are we showing our children?
This is the most undemocratic way to discuss an issue yet those in favor of reform are called socialists, Nazi etc.?
The screaming and violence at these town hall meeting are more in line with Fascism then anything Obama is doing.
I'll listen to them when they give up their Medicare, fire and police protection etc.
What hypocrites!!!!
Diane
the site shut down every weekend, I have to wonder if there are government hackers attacking C&L.
Obama was the government.
disappeared about a hour ago. I had just submitted it, and both are gone. I used the search function to try to find them, and nothing. If I hadn't just posted it, I may have never noticed it.
if its the comment I think your talking about, it disappeared about the same time as I was replying to it. Mine doesn't show up either, here or in the search.
It was on another thread.
another one of your comments disappeared also, it was a reply to one of mine, and my reply to it disappeared also.
I find it interesting that these are the same people who don't want their tax dollars to go toward abortions telling a sitting congressman that he should have been aborted. What a complete bunch of unintelligent jackasses. Easily duped and manipulated.
SJ
I hope H.R. 3200 and any health care bill will be killed this go around because I believe it is The Mass Plan on Steroids.
If everyone only knew what an abysmal failure The Mass Plan is. You have no idea how many people I have spoken with here in Massachusetts tell me that even with the "connectors" telling them which insurance policy they can "afford" they cannot afford it and instead opt to just pay the FINE/PENALTY which is less, and go WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE!!!
Now, take this plan and lay it out over the entire country. This is not health care reform at all, it is merely a ruse to add more of our hard earned money to the coffers of corporate America.
If I get my way on the left as a progressive who supports a Single Payer Program for everyone (that would NOT include penalties/fines) and those on the far right who oppose health care reform because they are greedy/hateful Americans who would love to see an "illegal" migrant farm worker die in the fields with a ruptured appendix than allow him/her to have any health care, I say fine.
Let these right-wing jerks go a few more years with the country in dire straights. With people losing their houses due to exorbitant health bills. The Single Payer doctor, nurse, lay persons need more time to build our base of support for MEANINGFUL REFORM that does NOT enrich corporate America.
Personally, I'd rather suffer through a few more years than "go along to get along" with rotten legislation that will only penalize the American public, not give EVERYONE the standardized, affordable health care reform that is REALLY called for.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I'm not buying into a mandated private health insurance plan, not paying a fine for not buying into a mandated private health insurance plan, and not paying federal taxes if they mandate a private health insurance plan.
Vote with your dollars and bail out of private insurance now. If a large enough number of people do this the private insurers will go out of business.
There is NO way I will spend a single dollar that goes to the private "health" insurance corporations. They can send my ass to jail before that will happen!
Me to.
Noah, you write: "Vote with your dollars and bail out of private insurance now."
That sounds fine, but realistically, there are people with dire health problems and those with children or elderly relatives who can't do that.
The elderly qualify for medicare. Children qualify for SCHIP and other state programs, some of which have NO income limitations.
People who are sick need care. If they can get their health insurance company to pay for it, more power to them.
We have to act to get a public plan. One way is by opting out of private insurers and forcing the death panels out of business. It's pretty obvious that the only vote that counts is the one in your wallet.
Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), and then you will, after a two year wait, be given Medicare. Contact an attorney about this.
I know this from a family member where this route is failing them. They can't survive the two year wait.
I live in MA, and can't afford health insurance, so am stuck with the $912 annual fine, which is going up...
I have heard *rumor* of propsed legislation that would make not buying private health insurance a crime, for which you could be arrested, but highly doubt such would go over well in liberal Massachusetts....
But this only confirms the plan we have in MA is a TOTAL giveaway to the private health insurance companies....
I found its cheaper to pay the fine than buy insurance.....
But there is no fine for people who make less that $15,000 a year- but if you make $15,000 or more a year, and if you are without insurance, you'll be fined...
I know this because 2 years ago I made less than $15,000 and didn't have to pay the fine, but last year my income was much better, but had to pay the fine- But I still can't afford insurance.
So the argument some have made is that even those with zero income are fined is not true, as the fine is waived once you get below a 15K income, - but fining anyone who makes less than $20,000 a year is grossly unfair..
I just think an indutsry that reaps profit off of the illness and suffering of others is morally bankrupt and unethical
You can't afford health insurance so instead you get fined. Nice system, and apparently the model no which HR 3200 is based.
DEMAND HR 676
today, and I will read more. I have two questions for you right now, if you will please indulge me, Abbybwood or Tom Servo: Does MA pay for coverage for indigent people, or do they just leave them swinging in the breeze? And, what if one company dumps you, and no other company will cover you? What happens then? Are you fined? Are companies forced to accept you?
Single payer or nothing. Mandatory purchase? What happens if your coverage is canceled and no one else wants you? How will that be handled? If this package they are proposing will not go into effect until 2013, we have plenty of time to build something that actually will work and benefit everyone.
Are there intelligent jackasses?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"what are they so afraid of [?]"
republican work mainly from the angle of greed. If they can make a few dollars they reall don't mind doing most anything even if it is against the laws of man or god.
republicanism is a mental illness!
Sure, this is an intense debate on health care, but there's no reason why we can't be civil about it! We're not barbarians..
We in the real world are on the front lines. What are we going to do, fight back or get shouted down? I'm not advocating violence but not much gets accomplished with talking unless we're talking to each other.
All actions have consequences and these nuts should be held responsible for their actions. After all, isn't the notion of 'individual responsibility' a mantra that the talking heads are always chanting.
LuLu
"Town-hall meetings are supposed to be exercises in democracy. But the teabaggers are turning them into exercises in para-fascist intimidation, eliminationism, and general thuggery."
Yeah, what are you gonna do about it? The democrats just watch while the right steamrolls them. If you're not willing to go out and kick these people in the balls they will just keep doing it.
No matter how many times they hit you in the head, never hit them back. That just lowers you to their level. Two wrongs dont make a right and blah, blah, blah!!!
Fuck that! It's time to realize that the Cons have no intention of getting along. Their only goal is do away with the left in America and for the past 30 years, they have been getting all their ducks in a nice, neat row. Or side? Well, at least we'll all die happy in the knowledge that we were anti-gun down to the last breath.
Michael Dukakis, John Kerry and Bill Clinton were all victims of the right wing slime machine, and none of them hit back with equal vigor....Dukakis and Kerry turned the other cheek when attacked, and it only cost them the election...
Obama keeps turning the other cheek, and he is losing his own supporters in droves....
We can't be like Surak of Vulcan and be passive. We need to fight back
And tell the world that we are NOT pleased.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
plus as hostile as a Naussican...
The only way we can do that is to be as powerful as Klingon, and be as perceptive as Betazoids...
(okay, i'll admit it, Im a Trekker.)
what an appropriate pop culture reference! Roddenberry had a vision of all races (and species) living in harmony--or at least working toward that noble goal!
I find it most distressing that so many people are hate-filled, and violently vilifying those who do not believe as they believe, or vote as they vote, or worship as they worship! And on that last note, how can a human being possibly be spiritual and spew such hatred?!
On a personal level, when I try to connect with my Republican friends, or try to understand their belief du jour, our conversations frequently devolve into "I am not much of a debater" (because they lack the brain power to intellectually support the Corporatists' talking points they so blithely regurgitate), and "I just know that's what I believe" (because they are soooo struggling to be "spiritual").
We progressives cannot give up. We must find a way to stop the Corporatists before they destroy our nation. I hope we can focus our energy on that goal without losing ourselves in the effort.
Funny you should mention it, I've read several articles (some old, some new) written by right wing critics of Star trek who detested Roddenberrys liberal vision of the future in the Star Trek universe..
They accused Roddenberry of being anti-religion, anti capitalist, anti-war, and pro-ethinic diversity.
Right wingers didn't like it that there were different races and creeds working together...
I remeber the uproar from right wing bigots when Star Trek Deep Space 9 gave us Benjamin Sisko- a black man in the lead role; Star Trek Voyager had Capt Janeway; a woman at the helm, and a black vulcan security officer
Right wingers were not happy...
I always wondered, had Star Trek been done with a right weing slant, what would it be like? I think we caught a glimse in the episode 'Mirror, Mirror'
The cast members are the first to admit Star Trek was a liberal universe.
I wonder how many people realise Patrick Stewart is in real life a devout socialist?
As for liberals in the real modern America reachging out and connecting to Republicans- forget it- if they are Christ cult members, they are brainwashed, and cannot be reasoned with...
It seems to me that a lot of these teabaggers, who call people socialist Nazis, are more like Nazis than the people the deride.
They don't even know that there is no such thing as a socialist nazi. According to them there IS such a thing as a socialist/marxist/fascist/islamofascist/communist/nazi. Political science is not their strong suit. Or history, spelling, grammar or cognitive thinking skills.
I think Ambrose Beardsley said, "I think I think, therefore I think I am."
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It was that great American Wit and potted piss artist Dorthy Parker who once dryly observed:
"You can lead a whore to culture,but you can't make her think".
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
simply wonderful, but then, Parker was one of those damn educated elitists.
a great great Lady.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
even the spirituality they struggle so hard to convince themselves and others is the predominant framework within which they spew their venomous hatred.
... one of the defining characteristics of the current conservative movement in the USA is their unmitigated capacity for projection.
For example, our previous douche president, Mr. Bush, whose grandfather was a nazi sympathizer got a free pass when it came to his family's fascist "dirty" past. However, these same conservatives are going off on a collective freak out calling a black man a "nazi." Sometimes, right after they accused him of being a communist. The fact that there are people who actually agree with such logical dissonance is what I find frightening, and saddens me to no end regarding how far our country has devolved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-emQAsGMeQ
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Savage often call liberals Nazis, then expreses a wish they could be shipped off to death camps..
He calls liberals hatefull, when all he does is spew hate...
How about when white supremacists like Buchanan, Tancredo and Limbaugh call Obama racist?...
they're anarchists.
They want to tear it down, and they're just aching to get violent, but they have NOTHING to replace it with. They can't even define the terms.
The people behind it are the corporate fascists - they like things the way they are: they've got theirs and every day they get more of ours. And they are completely willing to use force and violence, preferably state force, to get their way.
Anarchism is a political/economic/social philosophy of the radical left. Libertarianism is generally recognized as a reactionary right philosophy (i.e. the Tea-baggers, Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Ted Nugent, etc.), although there are self-identified libertarians who embrace liberalism on social issues (Jesse Ventura, Bill Maher, etc.).
Like any other, anarchism has various strains and schools of thought, but all forms of anarchism share a few things in common:
- Belief in the primacy of individuals
- Resistance to coercion or compulsory participation in societal & governmental structures
While I know that it is common to equate anarchism with chaos and/or libertarianism, most of us who self-identify with any of the various strains of anarchism reject such an equation. Of course, we're not in the business of forcing others to obey our rules, so there are anarcho-capitalists who associate themselves with the libertarian movement.
As a Canadian, I started out my political life as a democratic socialist & NDP-supporter. Over time, I was further radicalized and my views have shifted to the (far, far, far) left. As an Anarcha-Syndicalist, I have no objection to government, per se, and I fully support collective organizing. I simply maintain the belief that government should be "Of, By & For the People," which includes the choice to opt out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
http://politicalcompass.org/index
I just wonder if any of those idiots on Faux have covered this story about Marianne Hoynes and the heckling she got?
It was very un-democratic, and very un-American.
the right wing's always been about bullying and no, it's definitely not democratic.
at anyone who is just now finding out what kind of people the Cons really are. They always seem so surprised or they say the Cons have gotten worse. Nothing about the Cons has changed. They have always been like this. It's just that people are finally waking up in America and part of that awakening is seeing Cons with their real faces on.
The question is, how long do we keep trying to pretend that we're dealing with normal people and stop trying to get along.
Freddy K sez, "It's just that people are finally waking up in America and part of that awakening is seeing Cons with their real faces on."
So true! Better late than never, though, and I strongly believe we need to encourage this awakening. I belonged to a religious cult back in the '70s and when I finally woke up to the truth of it, I was devastated. This also can happen to right-wingers who begin to see what's going on. I lost my entire belief structure and my social network, so I know what it's like to realize that just about everything I had believed was wrong.
So let's encourage awakening, learning, and growing wherever we find it among the right-wingers; it might be rare, but it's there.
if we can help these fearful, hate-filled Angry Group people face their cognitive dissonance (and it's the ultimate irony to me that so many who profess to believe in God have so little FAITH that God will provide them with all that they need!), we might stop the Corporatists from taking over and destroying our nation.
I think this sounds right on the money...Felony assault...that's the ticket... crowd the courts with felony charges against these knuckle-dragging fools and be done with them...Make sure you make a clean sweep of cluster-fox as you pass by on the way to court...
"Hey, let's go teabag some Congressman. Maybe dere's some crippled chick in a wheelchair, or some dying ol' geezer we can mock!"
"Nah, we just did dat last night."
"You're right. Let's go beat up on some N*****S or S***S."
"I don't know. Dat's gettin' old, too..."
"Yeah, we need somthin' new."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIah4s6ePQo
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What's a "S***"? Give me a hint, please? Thanks.
I love that you don't know what that ethnic slur is supposed to be & I hate that I knew instantly.
Anyway, think of a horrid, 1950s-style slur for Latin-American & Hispanic people - ironically also the first part of a slang term for "very clean," and the name of a common household cleaner.
It is part of the name of a household cleaner. It is merely a vulgarism.
michell backman (yes its the wrong spelling but she is a FUNCTIONAL ILLITERATE so she will not notice), has put out a call for all Trailer trash, Teabaggers (not a recognized word in the dicktionary misspelled for the republicans reading ha ha like that is possible), answer the call tyo SLIT your WRISTS I am providing the RAZOR BLADES and Free Instruction, I will even cheer you NAZI TRAILER TRASH IGNORANT MORONS on. So please now Organize for a 10,000 person RIGHT WING WRIST SLITTING EVENT the sooner the better. For the Idiots on the RIGHT no corrections to spelling is made to make you feel more at ease while attemting to read or get a grown up to read it to you.
It's not just your average citizen who is taking part in these crazy antics. Besides right wing radio and TV, many GOP elected officials are also stirring up the pot. This is how it will be from now on when a Democrat is sitting in the White House. Especially one who looks "different."
Little does the GOP realize how the rest of the country is watching the party destroy itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OUTYQz9LnI
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What Democracy?
We're a Plutocracy now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlleFrhsgc
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Of course there is more to "Fascism" than the melding of corporate and government institutions.
I'd say while a number of Dems fall into the "corporate whore" category,by and large they show less traits of full blown Fascism.Observe:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
Obama himself is a fascist who...
...voted to re-authorise the patriot act...
...voted for immunity for telecoms that helped Chimpy and co. tap our phones and internet. (after he said he would'nt)
...voted for a big "fascist" bankster bailout with no oversite.
...and voted to give Chimpster all the war money he ever asked for.
...and that was before he became president! (the war continues)
you're just blinded by party faith thats all.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
that it's stupid?
Oh, I get it - fascist lite!
All the corporatism, with half the hatred.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
pretty ironic for the host to interrupt the guest and stop her comment in order to elicit a comment about being interrupted.
much of our discourse has devolved into labelling shorthands. often without understanding the definitions of the labels used.
"conservative" is used to describe people who are anything but about conserving - the treasury, the environment, etc.
"liberal" is used as a perjorative, even though it originally meant favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible
now, "fascist" gets much bandied, often appropriately, from both sides. It may be helpful to keep the characteristics of fascism in mind before slinging it:
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Supremacy of the Military
Rampant Sexism
Controlled Mass Media
Obsession with National Security
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Corporate Power is Protected
Labor Power is Suppressed
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fraudulent Elections
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14ch...
You just described the modern GOP to a tee.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
You cannot see the difference between these nasty disgusting individuals and serial killers who have fun torturing their victims.
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit mutig-festem Schritt.
Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschier'n im Geist in uns'ren Reihen mit.
Die Straße frei den braunen Bataillonen.
Die Straße frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann!
Es schau'n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen.
Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an!
Zum letzten Mal wird nun Appell geblasen!
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit!
Bald flattern Hitlerfahnen über Barrikaden.
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur noch kurze Zeit!
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig-festem Schritt.
Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschieren im Geist in unseren Reihen mit.
......just add the brownshirts and you're all set.
sorry about the extra b in teabaggers.But what the heck the rethugs are illiterate storm troopers aren't they? So I'd doubt they'd notice
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
http://www.pzg.biz/cd30_das_heer.htm
Here's a site for the mental & emotional cleansing you'll need after looking at the first two:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080124172717/www...
Have the speaker live on TV that is broadcast to the audience, with earphones for all attendees so they can hear only what the speaker says, not the shouting of hecklers and troublemakers. All questions should be put into writing and continually collected by the speaker's staff for the speaker to respond to.
Telephone town hall via conference call. Only the questioner could be heard each time, so no shouting down by mobs of either side. He (Dem) did take several obvious teabagger questions too, so staff wasn't restricting questions to convenient ones.
are you a hoosier also? Or did another rep do the same as one of ours?
I'm a tarheel.
then its not just one of ours that is doing it.
the Republican payroll as a consultant.
And quite a progressive Democrat, at that. Democratic mayor of Cincinnati. I don't get Air America any longer, but when I did, Springer had a show on there, in the slot just before Franken's.
And it isn't as if Springer came up with that format. Both Morton Downey, jr. and Geraldo Rivera did that type of angry guests, angry audience show before Springer did it.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAF16QNo3fw
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"And I felt bullied, and I was not gonna take it. I was going to finish what I had to say, and it was very upsetting. It was very un-democratic, and very un-American"
I am sorry to say so, but bullying is very, very American.
I believe the people behind the teabaggers, organizing and funding them, are the fascists - they want the textbook definition of fascism: "the merger of corporate and state power combined with a jingoistic and belligerent nationalism".
The teabaggers, like the rest of the fringe festival that is today's GOP: the birthers, Birchers, deathers, tenthers, Larouchies, white seperatists, secessionists, militant evangelicals, NRA, Good Grief, what a bunch of freaking loons, are anarchists.
Yes, anarchists. They can think no farther than tearing down the government, but they haven't a clue what to do after that. Oh sure, some of them will ramble about returning to the Constitution, the way the Founders meant, but they have no idea what they're talking about.
They don't really want to go back to the original Constitution, take the vote away from everyone but white men, reinstate slavery, ok, some of them do, but, in fact, they have no idea what the original Constitution contains. You can test this easily by asking one of them if they're ready to give up Medicare or Social Security.
I'm so weary of being surrounded by idiots who want to legislate their crazy into law.
These clowns have no shame. Thom Hartmann continually talks about the "angry citizens." What's wrong with him doing that is that he's joining CNN, MSNBC, and other major networks lending creedance to these clowns, when they are actually just organized mobs.
... based on "I got mine" and "survival of the richest" is not sustainable. The USA as we know it will not be hear another 200 years from now.
The "two party" system has already collapsed. The Democrats with the lobbyist money have sold out their supporters and the Repugs have become a religious cult. The average American no longer has an advocate on their side.
So where do we go. There really isn't much we can do other than vote out every incumbent, even if it's your party. This will work for a while. The problem is the newbie electoral will be on the take in short order.
The root cause of the problem is the people are afraid of the government as opposed to the opposite. We the people have given the government that power by our indifference to laws like "disorderly conduct" which the police use to "arrest" anybody for anything and "enforced" when the public demonstrates it's unsatisfactory or unacceptable government activities.
A typical example is the work week in France. The government tried to increase the work week by 5 hours and the people rioted in the streets to beat the government down. That type of protest is what is lacking in the US because we have all been weened on
Good bye and good luck.
Who the f#%^ cares if she was or wasn't in a wheelchair?! She should have been treated with respect and allowed to voice her concerns-whether or not she was in a wheelchair. The anchorwoman's question to me was inferring that oh, maybe they didn't see your wheelchair-that's why they were acting like f'ing animals-yelling at her, and not letting her complete a sentence. Dumb!
I am, on the other hand glad that MSNBC gave her a chance to tell her side of the story.
Why is that when righties give examples of Dem "thuggery" it is a case where the right winger probably started it first, or such a lightweighted example-compared to all the many ex's of righties-bringing their guns to rallies, shouting people down, not letting people answer or question Congresspersons, starting fights and faking injuries, and just plain old intimidation? The unions have gotten involved because there is outright physical violence towards Demos.
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