Pat Buchanan's idea of a race discussion is to read off crime stats
By John Amato Saturday Feb 21, 2009 5:30amPat Buchanan rails against Eric Holder's claim that we're a nation of cowards when talking about the issue of race.
Pat, who is afraid that illegals from Mexico will re-take Texas reads off a laundry list of wrongs African Americans are bringing into our society once he gets hot and bothered. He doesn't understand the consequences to our country of what real "poverty" brings. Rev. Wright covers his entire scope of racial dialogue.
Q:Let's talk about race in America. Pat: It's not my fault darkies rob people...
Maybe Pat would take a little time and energy and discover why these trends take place in America. Dyson had to throw a little education on PB because he didn't even know that Black Americans were forced to start their own churches because of "racism."
PAT: This is a remark of almost paralyzing stupidity. If you want to start a discussion about how there is a measure of social self-segregation going on—I mean, you have got black churches, Black Caucus, black colleges, and black clubs—there is that.If he wants to discuss that, Mike, you don‘t start it off by insulting the people you want to talk to.
DYSON: Well, let me—let me respond to that. Let me respond to that.First of all, when you say self-segregation, the black church didn‘t come into existence because it desired to be separate from the white church. The white separatist movement White House American Christianity forced black churches to start their own.
DYSON: Let me tell you who he‘s talking about. He‘s talking about America.Look—look at this point. You know, you say you want honest conversation. And Mr. Barnicle started the conversation, what happens when “we white guys” speak honestly about race?Well, I will tell you what happens. When you speak honestly about race, you tell the truth about what you feel. All of us should be allowed to do that. The question is, when we put our bona fides on the table, when we establish what we think are the baselines for racial conversation in America, we have to be honest and willing to say, hey, maybe we didn‘t get it right. Maybe white supremacy, social injustice, the owning of slaves, Jim Crow law, and vicious bigotry have not led to the best experiment in democracy.
DYSON: And what we must do now is to acknowledge that and then move forward. It is not—so, when black people tell the truth...
BUCHANAN: All right, let me ask you and tell you something. DYSON: ... then white feelings of guilt and offense come about.(CROSSTALK)
BARNICLE: All right. All right. Professor, let—let Pat in here.
BUCHANAN: OK, let me tell some truths. Let me tell some truths. Let me tell some truths. White folks in America are not responsible for the 70 percent illegitimacy rate in the black community. We are not responsible for the fact that African-Americans commit crimes at seven times the rate of white Americans. We are not responsible for the fact that many more children in the African-American community, 75 percent, are born out of wedlock, as I said.All of these things are the responsibility of the African-American community. And its leaders should address the problems in their own community and stop blaming folks who are not responsible.
DYSON: Let me respond to that. First of all—first of all—first of all—first of all, Jesse Jackson has been responding to that issue for the last 40 years. Many people have been having a vibrant, vital, consistent conversation about the necessity for self-responsibility.What I didn‘t hear you say is that black people are not responsible for Oscar Grant, when he goes out in Oakland, and then gets viciously assaulted by a policeman. We are not responsible for chimpanzee commercials and cartoons put forth...BUCHANAN: Right. DYSON: ... by “The New York Post” that draw—let me finish—that draw an implicit relationship between the president...
BUCHANAN: ... let me tell you, the—in the statistics on group crime against individuals, gang rape and gang assaults, the numbers are almost 100-1. Forty-five percent of African-American crime is committed against whites. Whites commit 3 percent of their crimes against African-Americans.
All crime should be condemned, but it seems to me, in the African-American community, you should look to your own responsibilities, instead of our faults.
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: See, what you have done, you have tried to derail—you‘re trying to (AUDIO GAP) responsibility for taking (AUDIO GAP) step. According to you, the entire problem of racial fascism in this country rests upon the backs of black people.
You have not owned up to, at one point in this conversation, the reality that...
BUCHANAN: No, it doesn‘t. I‘m saying you‘re not taking—owning up to anything, fellow.
DYSON: ... the dominant American culture has fed the—and fueled the vicious divisiveness that we continue to confront. So, now you‘re trying to scapegoat.
BUCHANAN: Stop blaming everybody else for your—you continue to blame—look, the African-American community was...
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: I‘m not blaming anybody.
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: But when black people talk about honest feelings, it‘s blaming. When white people talk about it, it‘s called being held responsible.
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Pat would understand. Urban Catholic parishes were often split by nationality: Irish, Italian, Polish, Lithuanian, etc. This wasn't only because they wanted to be with their own kind, however - the other parishes wouldn't accept them.
One of my childhood neighbors still talks about how the local church pastor (Irish) told his mother he wouldn't baptize her baby - because they were Italian. "Go to the Italian parish for that," she was told.
To become an ex Catholic.
On adding just a little more animosity to the pot.
Urging Catholics to leave their religion for your beliefs (from the 1950's I might add) is right up there with Old Pat's beliefs about "the blacks." Why do we have to do this? Why does one discussion about the hatred of bigotry lead to another about hatred of religion?
In my opinion that give me a right to express my opinion on this particular subject.
Thank you very much.
Besides the crap in this institution continues on.
But why do we need to go there? Why equate today's racism with a practice of the Catholic church that was abandoned decades ago? You call it expressing your opinion, I see unnecessary dissemination of hate for a specific religion.
It's just amazing to me that so many people on this site preach tolerance and then undermine their own arguments by stoking fear and hate about their ex-religion or a religion they've never practiced. There's something awfully closed-minded and deconstructive about demonizing an "other" belief system.
Hate on, I guess. It's your right, it just makes me disappointed.
I am criticizing a Religion i grew up in. My mind, nay my brain was opened up to it and all kinds of wild ideas were shoveled into it from the time i was six months old. How can me criticizing MY upbringing be misconstrued as being close minded?
Go find a punching bag, you need some form of release already!
...isn't Buchanan Cathoic, and a product of the times that the other poster is noting? Some of the most racist and bigoted people I know are Catholics, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, except for the fact that these friends specifically and self-righteously justify their attitudes it in terms of their faith. They don't necessarily represent the norm, but they do illustrate the added repulsiveness that the element of faith based self-righteousness adds to the toxic brew. I believe that may have been the other poster's point. If it wasn't, then.....never mind.
And after the Civil War and emancipation, Blacks were "free" with no infrastructure, no generational family units, little or no education or financial support or property. No one wanted them and they were thrust upon a country that largely despised them.
It's amazing Blacks in this country have done as well as they have.
What we did to them was beyond shameful and we should own up to it.
I haven't researched it, but I'd suspect that white folks commit almost all of the crime in Ireland.
No doubt. And I'd be willing to bet 99% of all crimes committed in this country were perpetrated by Americans. Just get rid of dem damn 'merkins and the country wud be SAFE!
Separating people in into little groups for the sake of preconceived bigoted notions is stupid.
Since the Irish are considered to be the N@ggers of Europe. In any case there is evidence to suggest the Egyptian High Priests fled to Ireland when Rome invaded and intermarried extensively so most Irish people would probably not fit the definition of "White" in Alabama where the State Constitution prohibits interracial marriage. Thank goodness Pat Buchanan can clearly see the roots of these problems.
What is that evidence?
It sounds like part of the debunked idea that the Celts were incapable of building monoliths (like Stonehenge in Wales), without Egyptian pyramid technology.
My point is race is a myth and any one who bases any opinion on a myth should back up and start over.
... why in God's name is Buchanan still on these shows? What an ass-hat.
Who is the clown who often put Rachel Maddow on a panel with this clown?
Enjoys arguing with Pat Buchanan and has said so.
...is a national embarrassment.
Most of the freedoms granted African Americans after the close of the Civil War were revoked by the 1870s, and they would be without human rights until 1965
by stoking racism.
...so many U.S. government officials and social justice/peace advocates (any color) are killed by white assassins. Is it simply due to their numerical superiority or is it hatred for anyone who suggests white freedom should have some limits?
Sorry, my white guilt slipped. Please forgive me!
My neighbor has Hazel eyes. He is a very good citizen, and kind to dogs. In fact, one of my best friends has Hazel eyes, and I treat everyone with Hazel eyes equally. All people with Hazel eyes shouldn’t be blamed for the crimes some Hazel eyed people commit. Sure, there are a lot of criminals with Hazel eyes, but not all of them are criminal. Most are just hard working law abiding regular people.
(Sounds silly when you pick some other random attribute to group people together, doesn’t it?)
Actually my eyes are hazel
And blood shot.
There isn't a culture identifying themselves as hazel-eyed people who behave as a pretty solid demographic. Your point is simplistic.
There will always be cultures and sub-cultures. There will always be those who identify with one group or the other and attempt to isolate them or themselves out of fear or an attempt to dominate/subdue.
Those divisions, in the end, are transitory and erroneous.
For every culture you define, that culture can again be divided and grouped to the point where there is nothing left but the individual – out for himself and alone.
It’s far better to be inclusive in these groupings, and to bring people into cultures than to segregate.
Simplistic? Perhaps, but not without merit.
What Buchanan does is create racial differences where they really don't exist. Hence my remark about white's being responsible for Presidential or celebrity assassinations. Silly? Yes, it's intended to be silly but it also makes a point about the destructive record of a bunch of pasty white men like Buchanan who seem to spend every waking moment trying to instill popular political fear of people of color or women.
I fart in Pat's general direction.
Oh I agree with you Mitch. My own comment was intended to show how illusory such differences truly are.
But just to be sure... :-)
Very succintly and well said!
I resemble that remark.
Buchanan has been a racist his entire life. Remember the hateful speech at the GOP Convention years ago. Pat is scared to death of any ethnic group that is not lily white. These guys like Pat get embedded in a network and stay for life. His entire career is built on being a speech writer for Nixon. Since then, all he has been is an opinionated loudmouth. He has never held office, run a business or done anything that made a difference. He writes bigoted books and rants on cable. Why would anyone care what he has to say?
You know LiL pat thinks slavery was justifyed because its in the bible he has a myopic veiw of things as the majority of rethugs ...its all everyone elses fault never ours. total disconnect from anything resembleing rational or intellegent argument ...it never suprises me and now they have micheal steel there(great black hope) they will never learn same thinking just diffrent color
Pat should be put out to pasture and never allowed to speak in a public forum ever again. I cannot recall that Nixon ever made any memorable speeches. Buchanan does not have a group that he represents. His views are a group of one. He is a racist, loudmouth screamer. Get that racist off TV and spare us his outdated maniacal views.
is quite extensive, and Nazism also had a very early 20th Century presence in Ireland. It isn't too surprising to see Buchanan and Hannity and O'Reilly say what they say...{some of my best friends are Irish}.
Both of them exude privilege (white and media) . Yelling over everyone and given the time of day AND respect by the anchors. It's embarrassing.
Sat, 02/21/2009 - 05:59 — xargaw
Lilies are the flower of death.
This is one of the few examples along with white winding sheets and candles that equates the shade (so to speak) with death outside of Asia.
to have honest discussions about race...NOT THE RAGE PRODUCING /GUILT LADEN VERBIAGE OF THE BOBBLEHEADS ON MSM...PAT AND DYSON DO NOT HELP THE CAUSE>>>
The
Pat Buchanan is the classic racist. He does not even know that he is racist. He has a long history of making racist remarks and having really no idea about what he is talking about with regard to race. He seems to be saying that the racism inflicted on blacks is okay because they are responsible for crime. A classic American racist view. He is not the best guy to be talking about racism. Fortunately, for us these racist old timers are dying off.
"His entire career is built on being a speech writer for Nixon"
And we all know what a racist Nixon was (and anti-semite). Pat toned it down for him.
... as if blacks have a "crime gene" that whites lack. When it comes to murder, rape and larceny, nobody tops Caucasians, who do it on a scale unmatched by any other "race." Germany alone, that bastion of Aryan purity, is responsible for more crime, by many orders of magnitude, in just 50 years than can be assigned to those of African origin in the 500 years since Columbus' discovery kicked off the slave trade in earnest.
The difference of course is that whites hide their crimes with a flag, high-sounding rhetoric, and claims of "national security."
There is a violence gene and it isn't exclusive to any race, but to gender. Men of all races, religions, nationalities and backgrounds are the source of this violence on every continent.
Religion is the flag they wave for a large percentage of this murder, rape and larceny. If the planet could drop the idea of a supreme being as the cause of their success/failure, happiness/sadness, protection/punishment or wealth/poverty and live by one basic rule, the human race could advance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Until we as the human race can do this, the cycle of violence will never end and we cannot advance.
As you say, a propensity for violence is hard-wired. This has an upside, I suppose, when sublimated (the Greeks had a word for it: "games"). So long as we ARE human, there is going to be violence, and the ends, whether political or religious, will be used, with the greatest hypocrisy, to justify the means. What we can hope to do --- must do if we are to survive as a species --- is ratchet down the lethality of the means.
Violence can be found in the limbic system, esconced in the hippocampus, and the so called reptillian brain.
However other areas get involved when it's actually carried out.
I agree. Just look at Chimpy, responsible for 1.2 million deaths at least. He was hiding behind the flag and now is living like an escaped Nazi due to American indifference and apologist whitewashing to his massive war crimes. We punished the Nazis, we need to punish crafty Americans or anyone who commit crimes against humanity. No one is above the law.
I'm not so sure of all of that. There have plenty of slaughters and ethnic cleansings going on in Africa. The Cambodians have a history of mass muders as do the Chinese and Japanese. And white poeple certainly haven't cornered the market on slavery. The point is, you can't blame just the white race for crap like this. There's plenty of blame to go around. On the other hand, I think the Buchanan is getting better. Did you noticed he called Dyson 'fellow' instead of 'boy'?
You mistake me, bobbie. It's the human race. All of us. But you can take all the mass-a-crees in Africa, Asia, etc., add 'em all up, and you're going to fall well short of the 40+ million who died in Europe during the white-on-white organized-crime spree known as World War 2.
I wrote a letter to a major newspaper concerning school integration. The letter said: "If we left it up to the children, we wouldn't have a problem." I received hate mail and death threats until I graduated from college. I see that not a lot has changed with the "old white men in this country."......The majority of the hate mail and death threats were from churches!!!...Go figure!!!!!!
in which I jokingly used the word liberal as if it were a slur. Within days I got a love letter from the National Alliance asking me to join their organization of ******/spic/****** haters. Vile stuff.
Although not as nasty, I also got responses from a local suburban address (TN) that had an out-of-state (NC) postmark. After I read the first one, subsequent letters were trashed without opening.
*Apologies to the editor about using the ******** words. Just trying to convey the ugliness of that news letter.
Pat is a total moron, again proven for the 178,987 time.
It nobody's fault but your own, a famous central Pennsylvanian way to explain suppression, corruption, and class war. They pay you less charge you more, watch you like a hawk, only to ensure your failure then turn around saying just that it's nobody's fault but your own.
Kick the ass off the TV already, make a law that holds reporters responsible for what they say, if they lie get a fine, if the instigate violence, fine, ect ect ect.
I don't think blacks are completely at fault but I don't think anything should be done about the issue of black crime either way. Just treat everyone the same. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I still don't think there should be "reparations" or someone of that kind though, it wouldn't fix the core of the subject, that we simply need to be nicer to each other (I think reparations would enrage more violence).
of the black community. But crime happens because of attitudes developed from being around a system that is rigged...from bad homeloans and redlining neighborhoods to lack of jobs to a culture that develops with a substantial percentage of its young men in the prison system, to fear that is shown on the faces of people throughout the day. To have this conversation without acknowledging that we are implicitly participants in racism due to being a privileged member of society is the cowardice that the AG is talking about.
Hip hop music has about an 80% white audience, yet the lyrics seek to pander to the most offfense 'Amos and Andy' like sterotypes about black people-that African Americans are inarticulate,pimps, gangbangers and violent. I think such images are deliberatly perpetuated in the music because there is a large white audience to this music, and such lyrics are written to appeal to their bigotry, and thus increase sales.
.
I do wish there were modern artists with lyrics as moving as Marvin Gaye or Sam Cooke.
....you can't run an unending rigged game and expect the players who get taken to the cleaners to go home happy. "Buh-bye, come back soon and play another round!"
that we gave up cable for over the air DTV and instead pay hard-earned money to have high speed internet from Cox. DTV in Las Vegas has 3 channels of PBS. We watch Newshour and commercial local stations for Vegas news, weather and to see if UNLV is going to still be open fall quarter because of cuts by rethug gov Gibbons.
We pay $70 per month for 12M down and 1.5M up. It is fantastic.
I am thankful we don't have to listen to POOWG (pissed off old white guys) ranting and spitting this shit.
BTW, I am a white, 56 year old voter who worked hard to get President Obama elected in Nevada.
At least Pat's not a coward to talk about race. Only problem with is it shows what a racist he really is.
If discussion about race with a black dude makes me uncomfortable about being white, there is probably a good reason for it!
Me thinks that Pat has a closet full of bones. And I don't mean that metaphorically.
Conpletely.
(n/t)
At least he's not a coward New
Sat, 02/21/2009 - 06:37 — gump
At least Pat's not a coward to talk about race. Only problem with is it shows what a racist he really is.
Almost any time white people speak frankly about race, it reveals them to be --private-- racists...
The first condition is slavery and its attendant evils...
There is a violence gene and it isn't exclusive to any race, but to gender. Men of all races, religions, nationalities and backgrounds are the source of this violence on every continent.
Religion is the flag they wave for a large percentage of this murder, rape and larceny. If the planet could drop the idea of a supreme being as the cause of their success/failure, happiness/sadness, protection/punishment or wealth/poverty and live by one basic rule, the human race could advance. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Until we as the human race can do this, the cycle of violence will never end and we cannot advance.
n/c
Listen, everyone, you've got to have some sympathy for Pat.
He may be an anti-Semitic, racist asshole. But, did you know that his Grandfather died in a Concetration Camp?
Yeah, he fell out of the guardtower! HA!
That's a good one!! ROFL
This outrageous and totally vile racist diatribe by Pat Buchanan on MSNBC was, by far, THE absolute worst kind of sick, twisted, heinous detritus I've ever heard spewed by this senile, evil old man. Pat's glory days are now over forever. He totally LOST IT and began citing crime stats as a valid discussion of race. He looked like a pathetic, irrelavant, out of touch white supremacist - the epitome of "the ugly american" in every respect. He's walked the line many times but this time was his ugliest ever.
When he praised Palin for inciting her crowds to violence with overt racist remarks and commentary by her crew, anyone with a room temp IQ could see that Pat Buchanan represents the "very worst" of humanity. He sits there and chuckles about racial discrimination. He's so totally incapable of intelligent race conversation that he has to resort to sleaze and filth and begin libelous attacks on african americans in the public arena.
I should think that the NAACP and other human rights organizations would have prima facie evidence of "libel" if they wanted to sue the ass off of Pat right now using this hate-filled diatribe in the court room. And well they should!
In the meantime, write to anyone associated with MSNBC asking for the immediate removal of Pat Buchanan from EVER appearing as a commentator on that show - OR - RISK AN IMMEDIATE BOYCOTT OF THEIR PROGRAMMING BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
This was a serious human rights violation permitted on the air by MSNBC.
Buchanan should be ashamed of himself - he wants it to be where White People can say what they want and nobody of any color can challenge them on their bullshit!
The White Race IS responsible for the plight of the black people (not to mention women, latino's, etc., etc.)
and is it just me or was there only "technical" trouble come up when Dyson was trying to speak.
Hey Pat, what are the stats for all those "white people" who have stolen billions in various illegal, "white collar" crime and do little of no time? Again, my stock response to all Repukes; go f%$! yourselves.
This is an important point, & one that always gets overlooked in these discussions. I'm disappointed Dyson didn't make this argument, because it shoots down all of Buchanan's positions. Those Mexicans Buchanan fears so much are coming here because of the shitty working & living conditions perpetuated by Wall Street in their hometowns. And the statitistics Buchanan refers to in the black community are a direct result of Wall Street's relentless assault on labor & education, especially in poor urban districts. While I don't condone the behavior to which Buchanan refers, it seems to me the actions of one Ken Lay or John Thain affect far more people than the actions of one unwed mother or gang member.
Here's the number - 212-790-2295 or go to the following link and leave an email complaint for MSNBC.
Either they remove Buchanan, the racist swine, from their show or Hardball gets boycotted immediately.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23580538/
JokeLine wants there to be a discussion that doesn't touch on the blame, guilt, and fault of white folks for their historical behavior toward blacks.
Dyson said there is no way to have that "honest" discussion without doing JUST that.
But whites do NOT wanna hear ANYTHING about how their participation in racism--whether they 'owned slaves' or not--worked to to oppress the black population for 400 years...
That's what Holder and Dyson mean by "cowardice." Whites won't man up to their evil deeds, and accept the consequences...
What an impossible discussion. How about inclusiveness in the here and now. That's all.
Blacks suffer being fatherless fathers as do whites. It is a mix of issues brought about by both the industrial era and doubly for blacks, who suffer being sons and daughters of the marginalized for generations. It runs deep inside.
Yet Buchanan's line historically assumes CLASS dominance which also cuts across ALL lines regardless of race. So ignorant rich white assholes whose bloodlines thrive in stone ignorance, lack of intellectual curiousity dominate everybody else and I mean EVERYBODY else. Maybe it's the stupor and generations of getting away with barbaric cruelty that matches the heat of the south.
All races have their own elegance. Except Buchanan's whose history hasn't a single challenge of unspeakable suffering which his has been so lavish to presume a right to inflict on others.
Blacks have a style of worship and social life that is theirs alone which is fine! I was raised french roman catholic, beaten by italian nuns whose families couldn't marry them off. Why would anyone with a choice want to absorb into THAT tradition?
Same as mexicans on sundays, little girls in dresses like birthday cakes, men swilling bud light from the back of their pickups.
So what? We're ALL confused, but the parade of humanity is still colorful in the u.s..
Still, EVERYBODY suffers from the likes of the Buchanans of the world.
To tell you the truth, I don't think I trust MSNBC as long as they allow this racist on every day to contaminate the national discourse. CNN is more balanced and has more black anchors than Microsoft nbc anyway. It's time for a switch back to CNN.
I'd say that it's time for the american people to take back control of their television/household environments and what our children get to see during "prime time news". We surely would never want to expose them to the hateful racist language of Pat Buchanan. This time he's transcended the line.
Unless/until MSNBC makes a public apology to african americans about this vitriol passing as intelligent repartee about a subject which needs to be peacefully discussed in this country, you should boycott their programming.
What Pat Buchanan did is akin to the fascist who had nothing of value to say to Joan Walsh and began making comments like "I'm glad that you're not my wife"....totally rock bottom in terms of anything intelligent to add to the discussion. These low-brow, sleazy comments emanate either from an empty intellect or a human vial of hate.
In Pat's case, we all know that he's a racist and a bigot so what else is new. We've tolerated him because, every once in a while, he makes a valid point. The rest of the time he's waxing like an Alzheimer's patient or a racist pig.
He's now crossed the threshold into hate language with this diatribe. We can no longer tolerate Pat Buchanan on our news programs because he is now TOTALLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY DISCREDITED.
Write to MSNBC today (Chris Matthews) and put them on notice that if Pat continues as a guest on their show, they will suffer a boycott.
The public deserves an apology for this from Matthews (as he did during the Joan Walsh hate dialogue) as well as a promise that Pat will no longer be on their payroll.
Just look how the demonstrations around the Daily News have affected Murdoch financially and personally. The people need to do the same with MSNBC in order to protect our children from this vile, hate language during "prime time".
First of all, it is a damn shame that Mr Dyson's comments kept getting cut off by the feed. I do wonder if that was possibly purposeful. Whenever he would begin to make a point, it was cut off. Also, I found that Eric Holder's claim was actually proven by Buchanan. Instead of discussing the matter in a civilized manner, he began to run off a litany of the old over-exaggerated claims of illegitimacy, black on white crime, etc. What a horrible creep Buchanan is! Barnicle isn't so great either. Holder's comment wasn't a meanspirited at all. Why these two white guys got so riled up is beyond me.
Pat Buchanan just gave "legs" to Eric Holder's claim, didn't he?
He proved conclusively that we are a country of weenies when it comes to mature discussion of race. Buchanan actually proved Holder's point.
It was horrible, and I think it seemed to me that the Dysons feed was was troubling like Barnicle had an on/off switch under the table.
Buchanan was being as Scotch/Brit skinhead as he can be, and Barnicle was a total jerk.
Never the less, Dyson, got his point across.
Flood MSNBC with calls today (212) 790-2295 calling for the immediate retirement of Pat Buchanan from their programming.
Or go to www.msnbc.com and register a complaint.
Send this to everyone who saw this heinous verbage emanating from this sick man's oral orifice this week.
You have to wonder if Pat wasn't purposely selected for this segment because he is a known racist and MSNBC felt it was time to "discredit and taint him forever"? It would seem to me that one of the least qualified "fair and balanced" guests would be Pat when it comes to being able to intelligently discuss race in this country. He's the poster child for "BIGOTRY" for goodness sakes.
Perhaps it was MSNBC's ploy to forever marginalize and expose Pat Buchanan for the vile american whom he really is?
Nevertheless, it's time that we spoke up to these news giants and told them what we will tolerate in this country.
(211)790-2299 www.msnbc.com
PB's an idiot. But I do believe there is a real problem in this country with . . . Rap music. I'm not talking about the socially conscious hip-hop a-la Roots, Taleb Kweli kind of stuff. I mean the thug/faux-gangsta/overly sexist and sexualized . . . 50 Cent, Game kind of stuff that glorifies crime and hatred and what appears to be rape, etc. This stuff is NOT doing anything for race relations. Period. (but then again, kids seem to like it . . . but look at how fucked up kids are these days) . . . And these guys only care for the money they make, not the lives they ruin (sounds very familiar doesn't it?). And to belive that nobody is influenced by what they listen to or watch is BS becaue there's living proof in all the older women running around now calling themselves MILFs and Cougars and such. I'm with Bill Cosby.
Pat Buchanan: As my grandmother always used to say, "an empty barrel makes the most noise."
As for MSNBC, heaven forbid they should have to seek out thoughtful commentators
The black churches were started in the slave days when newly arrived slaves where "converted," but given a watered down form of Chrisitanity that amounted to, "Thou shalt not steal your master's chickens. I don't know who came up with the jumping the broom marriage between slaves, but it's a holdover of European peasantry custom. They were also largely kept illiterate so they couldn't read the Bible or any other book.
And although there's a lot of black entrepreneurs behind rap music, opening their own label for instance, it's probably with a lot of white money.
And as for taking responsibility for their own crime, I assume they try to raise their kids right, but the society they find themselves in is largely and can corrupt them, is largely of white design.
The only thing they could do is form their own police force, but that reminds me of something Eddie Murphy said in a hick bar in 48 Hours, "I'm your worst nightmare, a n****r with a badge!"
Than ilk like pb would find reason to complain of black racism if there are no white officers in the force.
"...Now listen up: I don't like white people. And I hate rednecks. So that means I'm enjoyin' this shit..."
Ha!
Buchanan is way out of his league if he's trying to debate Dyson. What's more, he's so stupid he doesn't even realize it.
Hey Pat: Can you please do the world a favor and just go the fuck away? And while you're at it, take Bay with you...
I like cooking with bay
Duh what are you afaid of that you want to take away someones freedom of speech any one that wants to take away anyones rights is very dangerous to the future of our great country
You misread the statement: we don't want to stifle Pat's freedom, we just want him to go somewhere else to practice it (like southern Siberia or Timbuktu, for example).
Now, put down the rightwing talking points memo and back away from it...
So Pat's point was he was trying to justify racial hatred of black people, by basically saying "hey, these people are n***ers, look at all the bad things they do". His dislike of African americans is no secret.
Look, this Holocaust denyer is just a testbook white supremacist-
(He doesn't feel the war with Germany in WW2 was warrented- even though they declared war on us) He doesn't like the Jews, he particuallry HATES Latinos, he doesn't like african Americans. His views seem to be as far right as Michael Savage.
Can anyone deny at this point that the core ideology of the Republican Party is the racial hatred of others???
Just look at their current anti immigration rhetotic- all that is is thinly veiled racial hatred of Latinos.
Right wingers have no problems with the huge numbers of civilains being killed in Iraq, because Muslims in Iraq don't worship Jesus, and have dark skin- therefore they are seen by Republicans as being sub human. Ann Coulter and Michael Savage have often admitted as much.
You mean the Southern White Men's Party?
You are just as dangerous as they are
Iam a conservative Christian and the hate speech ,name calling and wanting to take away peoples rights seem to be comimg from the left. You can find bad, sick people in every race or group of people you want to look at. Thats the problem when you say all blacks are bad or stupid you are very wrong, and when you accuse all conservatives of being racist you are also wrong. I have never heard any Republican in my 60 yrs of living ever call anyone of dark skin sub human. Why do you need to make up lies?
dsteamer wrote:
"I have never heard any Republican in my 60 yrs of living ever call anyone of dark skin sub human. Why do you need to make up lies?"
dsteamer, Have you been living in a cave the last 60 years? Republicans routinly call Mexicans (Latinos) animals- And Republicans have called peple of Middle eastern origin 'towelheads', and every other racist name in the book.
Republicans have the habit of calling people with dark skin the most horrific racist names.
Listen to Republicans in the media like Ann coulter, Rush Limbaugh and michael Savage, they routinly paint African Americans as being animals.
If you think the Republicans haven't been openly racist in modern times, you are ignorant as a stump.
Republicans like you spout hatred, but think it's okay as you paint the white man as the true victim.
pathetic!
Conservatives are the most vocal advocates of hatred, be it bashing gays, or voicing hatred for Latinos, African Americans, or Muslims. Conservatives demand people worship Jesus. Frankly, I see nothing positive being offered by conservatives- it's just bigotry, intollerance and oppression, and I'm sick of it.
Liberals are fed up with the bullshit of the the right wing, and stand up and speak out. The right wing doesn't like that- They don't understand why gays get upset when they call them fa**ots. Gay couples have the right to be together, and to marry if they love one another. You don't like it, don't have a gay marriage!
A person can reject Jesus and follow another religion-or NO religion if they so choose. Right wing Conservatives feel we must ALL worship Jesus.
African Americans, Latinos and arabs are equals to caucasians, not their inferiors. The right wing Conservatives in America think that white male is the superior life form.
Conservatives were in charge the last 8 years, and nearlly destroyed this country with their twisted ideology and bankrupt values-
Pukeanan is the typical ignorant, loud mouth, Reslug racist.
Your person that scans/reads these sites ought to tell you that your vaudeville MSNBC rhetoric has devolved into impotent revisionist denial.
For the pigheaded rightwinger in you the 2008 election means this, a younger and psychologically stronger man now represents the decision making powers and the quality of life in the near future. This government is attempting to lead toward a stabile future for the bulk of a population 2 to 3 generations younger than yours.
It also means you can keep quiet now that the Nixon/Reagan cult experiment is over. Now that the followers of your canned message are sidelined and that your 15 minutes of fame ended a long time ago.
Much of the old GOP ways has been made invalid including your media overexposure. Your service during the Bush Error required elemental media news revisionism and entertaining rantings to help with prop-ups and apology for consistent failings as conservative movement plodded to its demise. But now your tme is ended. Retiring to the conservative speakers circuit maybe a comfortable step down and you should consider it. Leave now and plan your new career gig as the 2010 MSNBC guest ranter who spaces out regularly in bi-annual apperances doing retrospective rants to remind everyone of the bad old days. There is time to repent from the fool you have played, do it now while corporate cable news stills has time to develop their sideshow sides that come before the Fairness Doctrine returns respect to the public airwaves.
Actually, there is in sociology something called the culture of poverty. Violence and crime may be a part of it. It's not race or even governance that necessarily causes it, but economic disparity. It seems comparable, to me, to what the psychiatrists call Munchausen by Proxy, because it's not clear to me who it advantages, prosecution that lacks mens rea, or defense, as in the Frankenstein monster, "Society made me this way."
However, that's a very materialist theory, comparable to Marxism, and of course the conservatives would argue that enables not taking accountability for one's acts, a trite phrase now, but could be compared to Existentialism.
Historically America's traditional approach to establishing Justice has been punitive, and targeted on the individual, rather than seeking out injustice which can be institutional.
Interesting...
pat buchanan probably makes more sense after eating a dinner of boiled cabbage and starts releasing hot gas instead of hot air.
Really, this is an important concept. I'm going to quote you on this one.
You don't like boiled cabbage either?
Hard to believe patty once ran for El Presidente.
He's playing to his peanut gallery, who nods their heads approvingly.
But soon will have to live on republican brand poisoned peanut paste.
His family comes from the southern states: father b Virginia, grandfather b MIss, g grandfather b NC. Two and 3 g grandfathers b NC, 1782-1853. The point is that his views are framed from the southern perspective and he is really not that old. My mom died at 92 years old. I think that your family's views rub off on you and influence your thinking, but not determine your views.
Some history: "Irish Slavery in America"
http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/academics/slaves.htm
Holders comment was glib. It was a clumsy, drive-by remark. I knew little about him previously, but now I know he has no poise. There's a way to observe race problems while not shutting the conversation down and not sounding like a finger-wagging schoolmarm.
Buchanan is a goof, but Michael Eric Dyson embarassed himself to no end here as he did on NPR yesterday. The guy is so lost in his mind that he can't say anything succintly. Why use five words, when you can string together 190 and eat up the time for the opposition to speak. Michael Eric Dyson speaks in multi-paragraph blather. Dyson is always an obnoxious guest. Guy couldn't give concise instructions on how to turn on a light.
Notice how the moderator has to try to cut off the flow of Dysons verbal diarrhea. Even the technolgy tried to reject him. (ha ha) Dyson is a joke.
were spot on!!!
What are the statistics on white collar crime to the tune of HUNDREDS of billions, maybe TRILLIONS of dollars... are there more blacks...or whites?
Whats' the ratio on that one.I bet the ratio is much higher than 70% more. I would'nt expect a Nixonite to bring that up though.
Just wondering if any such stats exist since it seems white collar crime goes unpunished because after all...it's a victimless crime...right Pat...as long as the working poor pay for it it's ok?
The path from "white collar crime" to "fear" is a lumpy, indirect one that passes behind an old warehouse, over a busted bridge and then you have to drive around a lake. The connection is hard to make and abstract. You need a mind to comprehend abstraction, most people just have brains.
Blue collar crime is easily exagerated into a bogeyman.
What about this kind of crime?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V79BBHjqBps
kind of theft is the insistence on the bald-faced lie and the implied ownership of everything they steal. No balls, no conscience. (left over from his family slave-trading days).
Which is why I and surely many others privately cheer on the successful bank robber. That takes balls.
Freedom of speech is a guarantee that every person has the opportunity to be heard. Silence gives a racist or rapist the opportunity to operate unmolested. But we must also have a well funded Justice Department that is always on the alert for violators of a person civil rights. It must be staffed by tens of thousands of our most liberal minded investigators. They should be given the freedom and time to dig deep and wide. Those depriving others of the right to: “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” must be dealt with quickly and harshly. Major civil right violators must be hung by the Justice Department in front of shopping malls. Enough Is Enough!!
Why MSNBC continues to air this old troglodyte is beyond me. I have been turning the dial everytime see him on a panel. He justifies everything with Nixon administration stats. He defends the crimes of the GOP and Watergate. He thinks Sara Palin was the most intelligent move the GOP has made in many years and he is a racist pig.
BUCHANAN: "... let me tell you, the—in the statistics on group crime against individuals, gang rape and gang assaults, the numbers are almost 100-1. Forty-five percent of African-American crime is committed against whites. Whites commit 3 percent of their crimes against African-Americans."
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Seems like way too high a number to me. Not sure where Pat gets his figures, but I suspect this is a stretch.
Way too many variables. Which City? Which State? What's the population made up of? He's full of shit.
Being a Native American it has been my experience that once the discussion starts and a minority dislikes what is said the next thing out of their mouths is to call the person they disagree with a racist.So it's no wonder no one talks. Read this blog it's not nice there is more hate against Pat than discussion. How do you solve the problems if every time you disagree with someone you call them a racist. There is discrimination no matter where you go, and as long as you allow yourself to be a victim then you lose. Clean up your own yard before you blame the trash in the neighborhood on everyone else.
The only person that hold you back is you. Those of you talking hate and using vile names against those you disagree with are no beeter than those who you are talking about, be civil and maybe we could make more progress.
Obama is pushing to bring us all up-to-date in the here and now which makes the picture very sharp and to the point.
The u.s. and the progressive movement have a really bad habit of Special Group this and Special Group that and it keeps everything divisively impossible to resolve.
I see it a lot on Democracy Now. This victim that victim is highlighted which makes them not individual human beings anymore.
Even Amy's use of "cause" ethnic music to me is an odd stereotyping (oddly insulting image) of the people in the story being represented. At some point people have to outgrow victimhood as a way of life and just be a dignified human being. We all feel the same. If we suffered a wrong then we refrain from hurting others and work to change laws, give opportunity and comfort.
We dems/progressives split ourselves into whining groups wanting "theirs" and that does not add to our credibility when we engage in face-slapping that goes on and on and on. I'm talking about ALL special special groups in the u.s. weakening all of our interests by dividing amongst ourselves.
Why even set the trap by highlighting this show? We already know how Buchanan and how those like him think. Why care, why engage, why give this good energy? Why are we blind to this?
Why give him our precious energy. At least the system is collapsing taking buggers like him along with it.
But I get so tired of people disempowering themselves with complaints that keep going way after gaining power, recognition and progress.
I am NOT talking about black people. Yet am sure many black people get tired of hearing it too.
Let's be real. That's all.
This is simple, The white guys who feel threatened by blacks are the ones who have small dicks. They fear the loss of their "women folk" due to lack of their sexual prowess,hence the tail that black men think of nothing but white women. Pat fears (along with the rest of the small dicked redneck crowd) that his wife will find out just how small he is and what shes been missing out on. Rule of thumb is ,the smaller the dick the bigger the racist. Pat must really have a tiny one. Wag your pinky finger at pat folks, hi little boy!CEO,citizens,eyes,open
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Bigots like Buchanan never see themselves as the bigots they are.
.
Maybe I'm only interested because I'm a social science nerd, but where is he getting these stats?? Every thing I've read suggests that people are much more likely to be victimized by someone of their own race than someone of a different race. Is he counting every kind of crime, like fraud? And this thing about gang rape?? Does the DOJ even keep stats on gang rape specifically, independent of other rapes? As far as I know, rape is a pretty universal problem, and occurs at the same (estimated) percentage rates across the racial spectrum. And women are most likely to be raped by an intimate partner, anyway. Did he just make this up? Are there some small, unreplicated studies, or compendiums of anecdotal evidence (as are commonly used by those claiming women are guilty of the same level of spousal battery as men)? How come nobody asked him where he was getting these numbers?
I don't care for buchanan,but I don't like mr big word dyson either.
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