Pat Buchanan's Torture American Style: Withhold meds from would-be Flight 253 bomber
Spencer Ackermann tried this morning on Morning Joe to bring common sense to the debate over the fate of the would-be bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. He rightly points out that the "freak-out factor" that a situation like this occurs.
Spencer: I really don't understand the argument because every single time we have a new emergency, we have to forget about the hard lessons we've learned in the past about this. And then secondly, by every standard you've seen so far in every piece of reporting, the guy cooperated. He immediately said he was a member of al-Qaida. He started talking in a threatening manner about how there are other attacks coming, so I'm not really sure where we make this jump to the idea that we're not getting information from the guy.
Since he's cooperating so much, what the hell. Ship him off to Gitmo, torture the shit out of him just for the hell of it.
Pat Buchanan couldn't miss out on a chance to join in the chorus of psychopathic right-wingers who have been responding with their usual grotesque visions of xenophobic hatred after the Christmas Day failed attack on Flight 253.
Buchanan: ...frankly if that means you have to deny him pain medication because he's badly burned, I think you go ahead and do that. I'm not arguing for torture, but I am...
Spencer: You just did.
Buchanan: Nobody is, but I am arguing for hostile interrogations of this fellow, because our job is to protect American lives.It's not to make sure his Miranda rights haven't been violated.
Spencer: So you're arguing for torture but with a different euphemism for it?
Buchanan: I'm arguing for the fact that this is an enemy soldier who tried to commit a mass atrocity and the idea that you're treating him like some guy who held up a 7-11, it seems to me preposterous.
Spencer: Except for all of the hundreds of terrorists that we've convicted in federal courts over the years that were able to hold that were able to incarcerate successfully and that were able to get information out of. I mean, the fact is, al-Qaeda is a dangerous and really important threat, but they are also not a super army of supermen that have Muslim heat vision, and it's ludicrous to think that we should inflate how dangerous they are because that's exactly what they want.
Great points by Ackermann, but right-wing loons need to have al-Qaeda built up as the scary monster hiding underneath your beds, ready to strike you down if you go to sleep even for a minute. We can't even get a break from fearmongering, even during the holidays. Withholding pain meds in the way Buchanan speaks of is torture, and the guy has been singing like a canary. Still, right-wing talkers are spreading incredibly sick thoughts on our radio and TV airwaves.
Now that would be a violation of so many human rights laws both foreign and domestic.
What if we withheld your Twinkies?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the religiousity of the 'preacher variety'...Any contortion/interpretation to get to the result they want!
Lie, distort, obscure, the stock and trade of the conservative- repub mantra!
Deplorable, revolting!
Once again, everyone, everywhere should happily forfeit all their civil rights except white-supremacist gunshow trash.
Second verse, same as the first.
buchanan was raised Roman Catholic, just like Hitler.
The funny thing is the RC's never officially ended the Inquistion, they just redubbed it the Committee For Doctrinal Purity, and it's most recent head is now Pope Benedict XVI.
And the Papal Bull Ad Extirpanda (1252), of Pope Innocent IV, authorizing the use of torture on heretics has never been officially overthrown, just allowed to lay dormant.
And who'd be cruel enough to want to torture:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
what a lousy guest he is. Buchanan will go down hating, now get over him NBC. NBC is to blame for this stuff, day after day.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Face it, Buchanan is bonkers, but the more he talks, the better it is for progs. With Buchanan as an enemy, we are truly blessed by the quality of our enemies.
Either way he'll make hay with the withholding of pain medications or the administration of pain medications.
If they're withheld the lawyer can scream torture and that anything he may have said was coerced.
If they give him pain medication, especially any type of narcotic, the lawyer can scream that anything he said cannot be accepted as he was under the influence.
Legally a person cannot even sign a consent for medical treatment if they have been given a narcotic.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
But I think there is enough evidence to obtain a conviction and the intelligence people wouldn't care for such legal niceties anyway.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
This moron was ready to kill himself, but now needs his pain medication.
Pure comedy. But yeah, his ass is getting convicted. Say hello to Richard when you get there.
NOBODY 2012
according to Buchanan. In a sane media this statement by Buchanan would have been enough to exclude him from further serious debate.
would have been enough to do that.
I sudder to think what the future has in store, given that the criminals in the previous admin will surely go for seconds as soon as the Republican party regains the White House....
See yanks what happens when you don't tackle real legal matters and decide to "move forward for national unity?"
Seriously, how many members of the Nixon admin have revisited hubris on you chaps over and over and over and over... and have done so without having to answer even the slightest of responsibilities? How is a penal system which rivals China's incarceration rates be so malfunctioning as to leave the real criminals scott free while petty crime leads to wasted lives in prison?
..the Obama administration could have ignored everything except maybe the economy and gone after the former administration long before now. And we as a nation, would be BETTER OFF for it.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Back when he said Todd Palin should take Levi down to the lake and hold his head under the water until he stopped thrashing around, should have been curtains for Pat, but instead msnbc made it out to be a big funny and played it over and over. Yucking up the idea of one person killing another.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
... than I guess Rush Limbaugh really is a victim.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Didn't someone else already use the 7-11 reference?
If I was Southland Corp, I'd sue faux new's ass off.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
In this case, it was MSNBC.
There's getting to be so many of these Nazis around we need a Dramatis Personæ.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
as if we needed it that whatever these people say, the purpose of torture for them is not extracting information. The purpose of torture is torture. The pure sadistic delight that the impotent take in inflicting pain on their enemies.
Those are my thoughts too. I think they enjoy the idea of making someone suffer. Especially if that someone is of darker skin than their own.
Buchanan is one old disgusting bastard, in my opinion. MSNBC should be ashamed for giving his feeble crap air time.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Buchanan is a hateful delusional gasbag.
I thought Ackermann did a great job calling the old coot out. Well done, Spencer!
To be fair and balanced msnbc should require Spencer to be on every time they put Buchanan on.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
definitely!
I thought Robert Urich was dead.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What else could one expect from aNazi sympathizer? What amazes me is that this country has sunk so low that this cretin is still given a regular platform to spread his swill
...moron Buchanon is.
I'm really not sure why he is given any platform to spew his hate-mongering and fear to the American public. He just isn't newsworthy. He's not worthy of anything except scorn and ridicule.
Wouldn't Jebus be so proud of Pat?
i LOVE how they always espouse the american way and all that it stands for until right up to the point where they have to actually put their principals to action.
they fail every single time.
thorazine and haloperidol.
I wonder if Pukechanon has to change his Depends every time he starts screaming and hollering.
I don't know why Msnbc doesn't go with an all liberal business plan, they have great ratings with Ed, Keith, and Rachel. If they really want to be the counter to Faux, people like Buchanon need to go, ASAP.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
And pack Joe Scarborough and Mika up with him. This morning Willie and Savannah were the hosts. Savannah was good with the guests asking them the kind of questions we would want to ask them. This guy Spencer was outstanding. I think I watched more of the show this morning than I ever have. Yes, Buchannan made a fool of himself and it was great to see Spencer point it out.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I like Savannah, but Willie introduced Pat as the "great" the other day and nearly hurled my breakfast. Joe and Mika need to go, I agree, that would show they are serious about being the alternative to Faux.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
These people are the same corporate pitchmen as on Fox, they are just the satin glove over the iron fist. Where is the questioning of our foreign policy of bombing Yemen two weeks ago and killing 120 civillians on direct orders from Obama...the silence is deafening.
One is center-right, the other ultraconservative. CNN claims to be "neutral" and in fact is center-right like most corporate media. They do have some anti-corporate views at times with Olbermann, but he's on only about 3 nights a week these days. While the teabaggers scream "fascism", we've been effectively fascist for quite a few years already, most are sufficiently anesthetized to not notice.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
Your misusing the term dialectic.
Dialectic is when people seem to have a difference of opinion, but similar underlying goals and ambitions beneath them, which according to Max Hegel results in thesis/antithesis/synthesis, or what our Founding Fathers would consider the logic of the Enlightenment between negotiators in good faith.
Dialectics was Socrates preferred method at discourse, as opposed to Rhetoric, which was not about finding commonalities, but winning a debate through logical assumptions, arguments and and avoidance of logical flaws, as advanced by Protagoras of Abdera.
Because of the Roman Church's preference for Plato (Socrates student), that lead to a general smearing of the term Rhetoric, still in effect today.
Instead you seem to be using the term dichotomous (not dialectics), in an attempt at tu quoques.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
C & L's got some pretty smart folks one can learn from.
.......I sure appreciate you for reporting on the Buchanan's of this world. I'd have to take MY MEDS just to watch the idiots spout their racist bullshit. I couldn't stand listening to him when he worked for Nixon years ago, and he's gotten no better.
dandy
it must have felt like he was in Jurassic Park facing off this dinosaur.
This is not a rhetorical question? Follow?
Attacking the messenger, are you?
Here's a big news flash for you. We are not here to answer your questions or to even give a damn about them. We are commenting on the subject of the post.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I think the site monitor is about to answer that question for ya. Relax.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
[You are consistently off topic-Sitemonitor]
Well shoot. It's dinner time and I'll take whatever is dished out as long as someone else is doing the cooking and the dishing.
Take a left at the next intersection and maybe you can find your way back to the topic at hand. Just as a refresher, it's about an idiot saying idiotic things. One more hint, his initials are P.B.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Don't fret folks, high school resumes January 4th.
I always have this irrepressible desire to know what the deleted posts say, and this one looks good.
I think that goof had a thing for Pissed off Patricia. Well if you're going to get kicked in the groin multiple times, let it be by a smart chick.
Prepare to be enlightened, C&L!
I thought we lost him when we ran into the woods, but he must have sniffed us out. I'm trying to be enlightened but my brain cells won't come together for warmth.
Thanks John for putting up this post. I heard the old bastard this morning when he said it and wondered why in the world he was allowed to remain on the show for as long as he was. I guess someone at msnbc thinks it's entertaining to hear an old man talk about how he would like to torture someone.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
is that a call out??? 'Cuz iffin it is, I gotta prepare for the big 'Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha!' that will follow. Don't want to spray food or drink on my puter.
me-oww!
You're misusing the term rhetorical question, that is when the presumption is that the petitioner is begging the question in what is called the Petitio Principii, a logical flaw, and therefore not Rhetorics, by definition.
Or it can be used when one assumes they already share the same answer, like HG Well's, "Are we not men?"
What is termed a rhetorical question is generally a part of a larger statement, not brief, such as commenting on a blog, where views and answers differ. This might be debatable, but the term is comparable to the thesis sentence for an essay, monograph or a particularly nuanced paragraph.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cmZ62v0t-Q
me-oww!
Approx 8:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsoMppnzhbE&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
ok
me-oww!
Really?
Look thru his quotes.
He seems to be on every channel at all times.
If a Liberal spoke thusly they would be drummed out.
I believe Maddow has him on for comic relief but I don't think most people get it.
What does he add but 1950ish knee jerk sound bites.
When do these types begin to held at least remotely accountable for their lack of accuracy/credibility/awareness/intelligence.
I dunno. I just seem to see the same talking heads from fox to olberman, msnbc, cnn, or even comedy central. I sincerely hope we have more intelligent/current/aware spokespersons available.
If Buchanan warrants so much media time we are in serious trouble
It's always a war crime. It rarely works. This kind of crap should eliminate Pat from discussions of this kind.
Indict Cheney & Addington. They are enemies of the state.
they've been interrogating Pat for all these years. See what withholding meds gets you though. Nothing but agonized frothing and demented logic.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
America's world-wide network of secret prisons still being used and filled with Obama at the helm?
So it's Obama's fault that Pat Buchanan spews crap and enjoys talking about torturing people. Stretch.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Now starts the Great Debate between:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lw17Pb7Nso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBtwlU9vAK0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
these shows as like a personality contest at best.
the "I'm smarter then you buddy take that" type of thing.
They really don't accomplish anything of substance.
Tue, 12/29/2009 - 14:58 — pissed off patricia
So it's Obama's fault that Pat Buchanan spews crap...
___________________________________________________________________
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153499
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
and the Republican's are usually the first to say that. Funny how they lose faith in due process and the American legal system when it comes to terrorists.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
the purpose of terrorism is to get us to do much more damage to ourselves than the terrorists ever could.
But apparently we haven't done enough damage to ourselves yet.
It's not that there are dinks like Buchanan out there, it's that there are TV stations willing to host this creep. what is NBC thinking????????
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
The same thing all other networks are thinking. Move right not left.
C'mon NBC. You can pay off this creep if you want to. If he's around after the new year we will have to accept that you want to keep him. That will not look good on you NBC!!!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
is a Military Industrial Complex company I mean come on get real!
The McLaughlin Group.
Whats the point?
So Pat.. since you've been punishing people with your flapping lips for decades, let's turn this around where the emphasis should be..
I wonder what would happen if Pat Buchanan were tortured IN PUBLIC every morning on Morning Joe's teevee program until his brain starts working again? Would his tune change?? Would his link to Cheeeney's KoolAide distribution system be severed?? Would his shrine to Tricky-Dicky Nixon come down??? Would Bay howl at the moon louder at night??
Time to put this fool out to pasture..... soon...
how about now!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Ape-Man hates this monkey. Good on you Ape-Man.
It's the Buchannans and the Coulters and the Limbaughs who are the real terrorists..
Why haven't they've been locked up along with the other dirtbags is beyond all comprehension.
couldn't agree more
I will never cease to be amazed at the cowardice of the right wing..these people are frightened of everything and everyone....
IGNORANCE.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
being off his meds...there goes that senile old jackass again...
al-Qaeda is hiding under my bed? But that's where I've been hiding since Friday, when President Obama didn't come out and grandstand.
I'm doomed. )G(
According to news reports, he was volunteering information from the first moments. Even torturers say they torture people to extract information when the people don't volunteer it. If Mutallab has been singing like a bird, there's no reason even under the torturer's logic to torture him, other than out of pure sadism.
These weasels would have been the very first in the life boats when the Titanic was sinking . Pat should be wearing a tutu , would be more appropriate .
Pat Buchanan reminds me of the old guy at a family reunion every one looks at, smiles, and shakes their head because they know they're old and no one wants to start a scene. I "lovingly" (no I don't love Pat at all) refer to him as Grandpa. If you want to see someone acting this way towards Buchanan, watch him on Morning Joe when Mika is there. She does it to him CONSTANTLY. You know she knows what he says is crazy, but she typically dismisses it because it's just an old guy.
And to all my conservative friends who, when I complained about the USA Patriot Act's invasion of privacy, told me that "right to privacy isn't in the Constitution" because they believe in a solid, literal reading of the Constitution, please point to me where it limits Constitutional rights ONLY to American citizens.
It just begs the question. Why is this guy still employed by the network? Why is he brought on as a credible source at all?
This guy is an old dried up prejudiced Nazi. The media is so lame to put these guy up there. Media is so desperate to fill the time 24/7 and catch views attention for ad revenues and propaganda ... with a very few exceptions television is a pathetic desperate medium ...
..if your grandson is arrested for drunk driving after a serious accident, question him first, treat him second? You're okay with that? Gotta' get these domestic terrorists off the streets dammit'. Dear ole' grandpa.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Looks like someone took away Pat's meds.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
This clown should be punished for his "idiocy" and racism by banning him from TV. Free speech must have some limits. By the way whenever this clown comes on I switch channel.
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