Rick Santelli said the economy was healthy right before it crashed
Santelli's rant is getting a lot of media attention, but listen to him say right before the economy collapsed that he thought it was healthy. Wow, just like his hero John McCain. And you know how that worked out for him.
“The government is promoting bad behavior! Do we really want to subsidize the losers’ mortgages?!!!! This is America!!!!!” (Does anyone recall Santelli screaming like this over the much larger bailout of his Wall Street friends? Or does he only squeal when regular middle-class Americans get some help?) The big question for Santelli is this: Why does this idiot, who talked about how the global economy was “healthy” and America’s soon would be too, still have a job?
On September 2 of last year, just two weeks before the financial markets crashed and we entered this global depression, he was on the same CNBC program, standing in the same stock exchange, saying that the economy is healthy and that the reason there’s talk of recession is just because the business media was itself in a recession.
But suddenly he's a genius that's speaking for all Americans now...Right before the markets and financials collapsed, the majority of stock show talking heads were all saying about the same thing.
Santelli and Cramer with Bear Sterns and McDidn't with the economy is sound bullshit. It was only a matter of time when somebody would find this Santelli asshole sticking his foot in his mouth. He's probably about ready to be foreclosed on.
What about the inescapable lunacy of the revolt emanating from the Chicago trading floor? That's like the Satan complaining about sin, the thief bitching about the crime they committed.
Our banking firms are sucking on on Uncle Sam's tit but I'll be damned if I'm going to let homeowners do it too! Them's fight'n words!
Does that not earn Santelli the unprestigious "Idiot Of The Year Award?"
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
IT'S HARD FOR DRINKERS OF THE WATER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO CARRY THE WATER !!
If all of these "experts" are so prescient, why are we in a global depression?
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Everything is OK.
Don't worry.
I'm not worried. We're born, life is tough, we die. It's been going on forever. Try to have some fun while you're here.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Why should I worry? There is absolutely nothing I can do about it. On the other hand, I am prepared just like before a hurricane.
And, everthing is not OK.
I watched Squawk Box once for about 3 mintues and turned it off. I've never seen such a channel. It's disgusting. I'll never watch it again.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
but I do know a fool and their money are soon parted.
This guy strikes me as a tout, a shrill shill for Wall Street.
The people who like to gamble, the die-harders might find him endearing but I think he is like the guy who tries to get somebody drunk and then gives them the keys to drive home.
They'll bring the stocks back.
To hold debtors to public ridicule, before chucking them in debtor's prison.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Santelli's rant > A few less investment banks...
"On September 22, 2008, the last two bulge bracket investment banks in the US, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, both announced that they would become traditional bank holding companies, bringing an end to the era of investment banking on Wall Street."
Study the symptoms not the virus...
That was so that they could enjoy some of the $750,000,000,000 that Paulson was giving away.
lets not forget "American Express Gets Fed Approval to Convert to Bank " among others...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010...
Amended: If anyone gets the time the history of Credit card points to some familiar names...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Such little media coverage on the American Express racket, and nobody was heard ranting.
Thom Hartmann: Must see! The TRUE story of the Boston Tea Party
And I was healthy before I died. What kind of ludicrous statement is taht? The economy was booming until it went belly up. The war was going well, until we lost. This could go on forever. Stupid.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Just ask a crackhead who has his best hit just before his heart blows out.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
to the cool, reflective, pragmatic, informed and reasoned voice of those elected to pubic office reminiscent -- if one wishes to go back that far -- of the albeit flawed and myopic founding fathers (uuggh!) 200+ years ago?? How did ignorant, hysterical, self-loathing, mean-spirited, illogical, non-rational, hateful and constitutionally-challenged become the face of the US politician??
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
Money. Lots and Lots of money. Hey, what do they care? They're well off now.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
No, mudshark. Everybody's pissed off. I don't care how much you make or have, everyone has lost a lot of net worth and no one's feeling chipper about it. Everyone cares.
And Santelli was normal before he started intimate relations with slimy rats..
I think we can revoke his Italian genetics...
Why does this idiot, who talked about how the global economy was “healthy” and America’s soon would be too, still have a job?
I'll have you know, Santelli has an MBA from the Jeff Skilling School of Business. He knows it's not that bad business principles were at play. It was just irrational behavior on the part of lenders and investors.
/snark
His bio lists a BS as his top academic achievement.
Just do like Suze Orman says! Save up enough cash to cover 8 months worth of bills!!!!!!!!!!!! So easy! hahahahahahahahaha.... please. Enough.
I could do that, if I didn't pay any bills for about eight months.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
Meanwhile, Democratic politicians might have said half a decade ago that the economy was doing okay, and everyone gets on their tail. Must be that liberal media bias.
Seems a lot of people think this guy doesn't deserve to have an opinion, or that when someone asks him his opinion, as they did in this case and in the famous video from last week, he's not supposed to give his true feelings.
He's an American. We're all pissed. No one got this whole mess right. No one. Yes, people made money by betting a crisis would happen and some people were predicting an eventual crisis, but no one got it all right. Rick Santelli pays taxes, he owns a home and has a family and like all of us, he's concerned and he has a right to tell people that ask him what he thinks is right and what is wrong about a very controversial subject.
Just because it got a lot of publicity and it resonated with a lot of people is no reason to tear him down for an opinion he made six months ago, Christ, if you're going to give him that treatment, why don't you do that for everyone who had a hand in crafting the stimulus bill.
I doubt even Barack Obama himself thought back in September we'd be in this kind of mess as we are now and he'd have to be taking the kind of measures he is. Not that he didn't want to, but now, as Rahm Emanuel says, 'Never let a crisis go to waste.' And if they did know it, why didn't they take more drastic measures then?
This is not a good blog post.
Just like Santelli, you don't get it. The reason Santelli has received so much heat is because of the way he said what he said. It is also because of the business he is in and the way he acts like he knows everything and he and his high end commodities traders don't have time for the "losers" who are having trouble. Another thing is that what he railed against is not really accurate.
WTF does that mean?
Did every economist and every politician that crafted this stimulus bill and mortgage bailout get things right back in September? Did they foresee that things were going to get as bad as they did? If they did, they should've been doing a lot more, at least Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to take a lot more drastic measures then. But they didn't, so by the same logic you are using to tear Rick Santelli a new asshole, you should be saying the same thing about a lot of people- practically everyone as it worked out, Catain Kangaroo.
It's just sad when someone gives an opinion that resonates, this place feels an obligation to dig up everything about that person to tear them down. It's just not what good people do. And particular baffling in this case in that you don't necessarily have to be a liberal to agree with the gist of what Santelli said.
it is sad to see people having been reduced to be whoring for those pieces of shit at the GOP.
Hope they don't make you swallow, or at least... that they are paying you extra.
First off, NOT EVERYONE got it wrong. Krugman was right. Stiglitz was right. Many of the top economists predicted this catastrophe long before it happened.
Which brings us to the point of this blog: Why are we listening to pundits and not economists?
Of course, pundits don't know what's going to happen. Of course, politicians can't predict what's going to happen. SO WHY DOES THE CORPORATE MEDIA NOT ALLOW US TO HEAR THE ECONOMISTS?
A: Because they don't want you to know the truth. Because the truth will probably hurt their bottom line. Because the public will be outraged. Because they will have to alter their own BUSINESS practices.
Here are two great analyses from people who know what they're talking about:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02132009/wa...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/19/jose...
So please don't chalk it up to, "Oh, everybody was wrong. You're just playing the partisan blame game." We need to hear from experts, not partisan and corporate hacks.
Krugman didn't get it all right, and if he did and you think everyone should've listened to him, why weren't the best minds in the Democratic ringing the alarum bell at every opportunity. Why weren't they backing him up and pushing his warnings in every campaign speech. I'll admit this if I'm wrong, but I don't think Krugman was predicting as many banks and investment houses would be biting the dust as we've seen, but even if he was, it's curious to me why Democrats weren't heeding his warnings that they couldn't have convinced Congress to act to stave it off.
Even more curious why you seem to be blaming Santelli, a f'ing reporter, not a Congressman.
Nobody is blaming Santelli for anything except being an asshole. Don't get on your high horse and turn this into something that it is not. Santelli is an asshole. And a hypocrite as it turns out.
I'm not on a high horse. Getting on a high horse is calling the guy an asshole and a hypocrite for stating an opinion and then going into his background to uncover any statements he may have made and try to tie it in to today's situation.
Again, nobody gets the economy right all the time. No one ever has and no one ever will.
Do you have a house, Captain Kangaroo? Do you make all your payments on time? Have a family you need to support. Real estate taxes paid on time like you're supposed to? Do everything right, even if it's a struggle? Read your mortgage papers when you signed, everything truthful and attested to? Knew the terms and what could happen if rates went up and if your job wasn't 100% rock solid?
Would it piss you off is someone wasn't honest about all those things or just thought things would all work out because housing prices were only going one way, was now going to get bailed out? With the possibility that they could just do it all over again? Is it wrong to be pissed about that and, Goddess forbid, express that opinion when someone asks you for your opinion.
I said this once before, but a lot of you guys aren't really liberal any more.
I had a house. I made all my payments on time. I payed out for all the insurances. I was never late for 12 years. Until I sold it. I was never late in my taxes either. In fact, I always claimed about 2 k more than I made. Just in case I missed something. And your point is?
Sometimes i even went as high as 6 grand over. Jeeez dennis. wtf?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I'm just asking Captain Kangaroo, mudshark. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Rick Santelli did all those things too, as did probably a fair amount of the traders in that room that cheered at what he said.
A lot of people here have expressed the very same opinion, because I've read them. What is wrong with not wanting to throw good money after bad to people who never should've had houses in the first place and people who were deceitful in getting their houses? What exactly is wrong with stating that opinion.
Captain Kangaroo calls him an asshole and a hypocrite. As I stated, many people here have expressed that same opinion going way back to last summer and before, and I don't remember Captain Kangaroo calling those people assholes and hypocrites.
I'm glad you made all your payments, mudshark. I hope everyone here reading this has been able to do the same. But it has to gall you to have done everything you were supposed to have done and now have to be asked to bail out people who were dishonest about it or maybe just hoplessly clueless or displayed a wanton disregard for common sense, and realize they may just do it all over again.
It doesn't mean you don't give a shit about those people; I think it just means you do.
"I'm glad you made all your payments, mudshark. I hope everyone here reading this has been able to do the same. But it has to gall you to have done everything you were supposed to have done and now have to be asked to bail out people who were dishonest about it or maybe just hoplessly clueless or displayed a wanton disregard for common sense, and realize they may just do it all over again."
-----
dennis--
How about people who have been doing the right thing and through no fault of their own have now lost their job and can no longer make the payments on that home that has been their family's security--not their "flip-and-get-rich-scheme"-- for years? How about a little compassion? Or don't you know anyone who's a victim of your King george's policies over the last eight years?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
A lot of this is only refinancing. Extending the length of the mortgage. Resetting the interest rates so that the payments will be affordable. Dennis and the asshole Santelli make it sound like people are getting a free house for lying. It is not what you make it out to be Dennis Santelli!!
A lot of it is, but by Robert Gibbs admittance, a lot of it is not. There is no way around it with this plan. Nothing is ever easy with this type of thing and the enormity of it. You want people to just accept that it's fine and if you don't agree, just STFU.
Well, that's the point of asking you if you paid current on your mortgage and mortgage related payments, even if it meant you cut back elsewhere. Because if you did, it seems to me you have a right to express your disapproval of people getting bailed out who didn't. Chances are very high, very high, Captain, that people who cut corners on their loan app and were untruthful, were that way with a lot of things in their finances. How do you know they were not? Big screen TV, cars, credit card bills, vacations? How do you make sure the people getting help aren't just scam artists, because a lot of them will be. I'm not trying to overgeneralize, but it's true.
I'm talking about Santelli calling every one of these people losers. The people you are talking about are not the ones I'm worried about. I would not put people who were right on the edge of being able to afford their house as being the same people you are talking about here.
He wasn't calling those people losers, Captain K. That wouldn't be consistent with what he said and what he said later when I saw him on Chris Matthews' show. I know that sounds like the kind of thing that you can villify him for that fits all nice and neat on a blog, but he wasn't calling those people that are just on the cusp losers. And that is not the people who he was ranting about. He was very clear about that. He said he was all for helping those people out too, just not in bailing them out on their mortgage and hoping for the best.
Even if the guy was wrong about what he knew Obama's plan was, it's for Obama to assure people that that is not in fact the case, and try to help people like Santelli and the rest of us understand. Not try to villify him, call him an asshole and a hypocrite for stating an opinion that many conservatives and liberals agree on.
I disagree with you and so did Chris Matthews. I saw it too.
Well, just ask yourself why you don't see that video shown on liberal blogs, CK. If he didn't come across well and he called innocent people losers as if he didn't care what happened to them, which seems to be the meme here, don't you think that would've been some most excellent blog fodder for you guys? How could someone deny you the red meat that would be?
Dennis and the asshole Santelli make it sound like people are getting a free house for lying. It is not what you make it out to be Dennis Santelli!!
Nice way to argue, Captain. Thought you were going to be on the up and up this time, but you take it down to grade school taunting.
That's what everyone does when they are sure they made a really great case, isn't it. Call the person an asshole.
Touche. Great to be back.
I feel that Santelli was an asshole for calling people who may be losing their house after being lied to, calling them losers.
I don't have the answer to that. I don't think you want my opinion anyway, because I'm not in agreement with Obama on his plan totally. Maybe if I rode in Air Force One with him and got the schmooze job he's giving Kathleen Parker and some of the blue dogs, then I'd come around too.
But it's not about compassion, fastfeat. I know you guys like to throw out that strawman, it's just not.
Dennis I'm getting tired here so this is that last for me.
How about this scenario: A guy and his wife go into try to buy a house. Their first house. The loan asshole says, "Step right in here." He says we have a loan here that is 4.5 percent and the payment are such and such for 3 years and then the interest rate rises but we don't know how high it will go because it depends on a lot of stuff. But don't you worry your little minds about that because when that happens you will be able to refinance that old shitty loan to a way better loan. We do it all the time. And by the way, your house will be worth tens of thousands more and you will be able to buy a boat. So the loan resets but the people can't refinance for obvious reasons. The payment rises to the point they cannot afford it. But if they are given a little readjustment like a longer term or a lower interest rate they would be able to stay in their house and make their payments (if you take a real hard look at what Obama is proposing you will see that this is the kind of thing he is talking about). Are these people the losers that Santelli is talking about? They sure feel like it when they hear him talk. I have compassion and I also realize that if these type of people get help to keep their house then the house next door will not lose value because it sits next to a foreclosed house. That's compassion and pragmatism.
(and I'm sure many more people as well) were/are in. And she's the responsible one in my family. She and her hard-working husband are doing all they can just to stay in their modest house in Eastern Washington state in an economy that has both of them facing unemployment in coming weeks.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Captain Kangaroo-
How about I tell Mr. Obama that I have lost my fucking ass in my stock portfolio and IRA and 401-K and the value of my house because guys like him didn't reign in the derivatives traders' over-extensions and FNMA and FHLMC were being too lenient in their requirements and all sorts of crap with overseeing banks and investment firms that we hope our elected officials are watching, Republican and Democrat, and hey, how's about helping me out a little for working my tail off and doing what I was supposed to do all this time? How's about not raising my taxes after all I've done to help out my fellow man by helping make the economy run well and donating time and money to charity?
That's not going to be the case. The case is, I'm called an asshole and all sorts of colorful epithets and that I should just shut the fuck up. The same thing people here are telling Rick Santelli. No, we thought the economy might start to get better six months ago and we were wrong, so just 'suck it up, pay in your taxes and don't worry about a thing and keep your f'ing opinions to yourself, cause if you do, we are going to make your life hell'. The unbelievable thuggery of Obama and his liberal bloggers.
What do you mean here?
That a lot of people here were not in favor of bailing out people who should've known better than to sign up for a mortgage they couldn't afford if rates went up or the housing prices fell. This idea didn't just come about this last week.
I don't recall seeing that. In fact I don't think I remember a topic like that on the site.
And if the loan officer is lying to you, how are you 'supposed to know better?'
I spent about a decade in the industry. quit in 1990. Until the freakin chimp was the president, you couldn't get a home loan without a lot of stuff in place -- savings,
goodgreat credit and verifiable income. Dergulation took all of those requirements away and the G.O.V. was saying "Be patriotic! Buy a house! We'll shoehorn you into a $500,000 fixer upper."me-oww!
miss_kitty-
I am not lying, not that you are calling me that, but I have seen a lot of posters here express disagreement with bailing out people who made bad mistakes in their mortgage loan that they should've been able to catch, or took risks they should not have. I honestly don't know how to go back in the archives here anymore to get comments, and I wouldnt't know where to start to find the topics, but I am being honest about it. It's not a sentiment that is only germane to greedy, uncaring conservatives. Many liberals I know are fiscally conservative and don't support bailing out people who should've known better, and by people who should've known better I've already described. It's impossible to sort them out and make sure they don't get the bailout help, and far too many of them will.
If the loan officer is lying to you, how are you supposed to know better? You get a second opinion. Everyone who sells you something is concerned with closing the sale. He may be honest and he may not be, but his main concern to be sure is to close that sale. Once that loan is processed, he is not responsible any more because it gets sold to someone else, not like the loan officer in the commercial loan area, where the initial loan starts the whole customer/borrower process. Sorry to say 'caveat emptor' because I know it sounds heartless, but that's the case. Everyone should have somewhere to go to get good advice, someone in the community, church, ACORN, I don't know, but everyone knows someone to talk to about advice like this. It's not really rocket science. It's not high-tech math. It's just that everyone, including the people that would've given them that advice, that home prices would keep going up, or not go down that much, and worse comes to worse, dump the house and move on.
-----
Dergulation took all of those requirements away and the G.O.V. was saying "Be patriotic! Buy a house! We'll shoehorn you into a $500,000 fixer upper."
Sorry, M-kay, nobody forced anyone into buying a fixer-upper. Hard sale, smoke up their ass, falsehoods, yes. People get those every day. People in the lowest income areas get that every single day with car salesmen, everything. They seem to know how to stay away from those sharks. The loan guys were a little smoother, and that sucks, I know, because I know a LOT of guys just like that; they are in every business, not just mortgage lending.
Like I said, most people just got sucked up into the whole aura of it. It all seemed like the right thing to do. Shit, no one blames all the shows on TV that glorified the flipping game. Everyone wanted in on it. So when the loan officer said 'just sign, everything's ok' it just seemed right. Why did people just suddenly trust someone they'd never known from Adam before that the loan they were giving them was the right one for them. It was shit, just let me sign and start unpacking the boxes, just like a lot of people do with the shiny new car that they sign for at an 18% interest rate. There's always going to be people like that.
It's just too convenient to blame it on Bush and the Republicans and everybody should just accept Obama's solution. When's the guy ever done anything like this before.
Shit, miss_kitty, Obama's the guy that should've been the one telling all the people in his old neighborhoods where he did his community organizing that these people needed help with those mortgages. I'm not being snarky in that, but was he?
Say $500,000 for a regular house. ANd the guy who wouldn't give you a loan a few years ago is practically blowing you to get you to sign.
And I misread your post. Yes I have seen people here say individuals should not be bailed out.
You know what a lot of people think they're progressive, but when they start talking, nothing that comes out of them sounds at all progressive. The ones posting here that say that are not, and a couple of the most vocal about not giving help are self admitted cons.
Bush and his henchmen did this. They took away the regs. They were in control since 1992, and really, the Dems had one house and no momentum in 2006. But by then, any bandaid solution would had been that -- a bandaid on a bullet would. And this whole stinking steaming pile, should be stuffed in a paper bag, left on Ronald Reagan's front porch (in the deepest depths of hell, if there is the kind of god ronnie believed in) set alight and the doorbell rung, and RUN AWAY.
And my sister is a laid off fund manager. She's been advising people to get the fuck out of the market for atleast the last nine months and into tbills.
Too bad she was right, huh?
me-oww!
You know what a lot of people think they're progressive, but when they start talking, nothing that comes out of them sounds at all progressive. The ones posting here that say that are not, and a couple of the most vocal about not giving help are self admitted cons.
I wish I had the time and the ability to go back and reprint all the quotes for you, because I was surprised too at the posters and the amount of them. But like I said, I don't think it's necessarily anti-progressive to not want to throw good money after bad and to have a different opinion than the one proposed currently to solve the crisis. It's too easy to accuse anyone of not seeing it the way you do of not caring. If it makes people feel better to say that, it's kinda sad, just like if it makes people feel better to blame everything in Republicans and excuse the ineptitude and back-door deals made by Democrats.
Good luck to your sister. I wish her well.
Say $500,000 for a regular house. ANd the guy who wouldn't give you a loan a few years ago is practically blowing you to get you to sign.
When someone is practically blowing you to do anything, I think everyone has the natural inclination to wonder why he's putting on the hard sale. Most of the time those guys didn't have to puton the hard sale, because people were all caught up in the bigger house and thinking they were doing the right thing. It's not much different than the tech bubble and people buying stocks because some kid on an internet chat room was saying his model had some dotcom company going to a 2.2 billion dollar market cap. Then after they buy the stock and it tanks, they blame the broker for executing the trade and didn't talk him out of it when he wanted to buy it and asked him what he thought.
He didn't. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he cheated.
I'll tell you what galls me. Is that all those loan officers pushed loans for profit. And where do you think those orders came from?
As for the people who got those loans?
I think this mortgage plan Obama has will fix it.
It does stipulate that anyone who bought property to flip it and who has missed a payment is fucked.
Sadly, this applies to people who never should have qualified. They should have been turned down. If the numbers don't work, they don't work. And they should have been turned down. But that's not the way this played out. Greed got in the way.
Now, I know you're going to say that some of these people who shouldn't have qualified were being greedy. Wrong. Having your own home here is the American dream. Everyone is entitled to apply for a loan. For what ever. It's up to the loaning institutions for them to do the research and approve of these loans. I also take issue with people like me who kept their homes who got suckered into a toxic loan.
'
Oh, All those overpayments I made was during the Clinton administration. It was worth it. The country was in the black.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
If Wall Street/The Banks/Hedge Funds and other investors didn't buy these mortgages then the loans would not have been made but that is only a tiny part of the problem.
The first part is true, Captain. Not sure the second part is. That was a big part of the problem, otherwise the loans don't get made, banks wouldn't fund the pipeline and transfer the risk down to other investors, so the flipping slows down and the boom in prices would've been dampened quite a bit. The whole thing would've never been the boom. But the CDS and the derivatives explosion was the biggest problem, you are right.
Which begs the question, what politician would've had the balls to cut off that whole juggernaut because he was scared of what might happen, a scenario only Paul Krugman foresaw? How do you tell the whole mortgage industry to cease and desist without looking like chicken little and likely sending the country into a sure recession? Who would've done that?
What do you mean there, got suckered in to a toxic loan? You were loaned money on unfavorable terms that you weren't aware of?
Seriously, if Rick Santelli cheated on his loan payments, you would've known about it by now, or you will shortly. This is Chicago you are talking about my friend. If someone wants to destroy Mr. Santelli, and there are plenty who do, not just liberal bloggers who seem to be working in unison on this one for some very peculiar reason.
Especially when their party won the freaking election and they don't need to worry about this freaking reporter. A practically unknown CNBC reporter.
Good God, people. Have you no shame?
That you're not aware of older people being suckered into toxic loans dennis ?
Really dennis, you should keep up with whats happening. I know you like to mix it up.Which is fine. But please don't feign ignorance.
I know you're smarter than that.
OK Thanks for the conversation dennis. Nice to see you again.
I'm outta here. I got a beautiful woman who needs my attention.
She gets priority.:)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
People got suckered into buying toxic loans, mudshark, and Goddamnit, you fucking always do that.
Investors bought toxic loans and packaged them into CMOs and Asset-backed securities. I'm not sure what terminology you are using to say you were given a loan that was toxic.
Since mudshark bailed, can anyone tell me what he meant?
Sun, 02/22/2009 - 17:39 — dennis
I'm not on a high horse.
__________________________________
A horse on horse?
Hmmm...must be mating season
And we're all getting...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
As a matter of fact I do have a house. I made all my payments on time sort of. I was late a few times. My house is paid off now (I realize I am very very lucky). I have a family. I pay my taxes on time. No I didn't read all the fine print. I depended on the mortgage people to tell me the truth (like almost everybody else does). I'm scared to death that things are going to melt down and I won't have money to put food on the table. For the most part I blame you Republicans.
Santelli was a dick. That is the reason what he did is getting so much airtime. Nobody is saying he is responsible for anything except being a dick. Why can't you understand that? I know people scammed the system and are on the short end of the stick right now because of the decisions they made. The deal is that most of those people will not get help from Obama's mortgage help plan. Also the only reason there is any kind of package to help some of the people who are in danger of losing their houses is because the economy needs this to survive. Or at least this is what a lot of very smart people believe. People are not getting help because of the kindness of Obama's heart. For somebody like Santelli to act like he did is the reason why he is getting shit. I personally don't care if these people get help if it is best for the economy. I believe it is best and i have been saying something like this needs to be done for a while now. Am I correct? I think I am.
I wish you well, Captain Kangaroo. Are you correct, I don't know. I don't know what to believe any more. Everything I believed before and everyone I thought was really smart is not looking that way now to me, on either side of the aisle. No one knows everything and no one gets it right all the time.
But everyone has an opinion. And Santelli, like you and me now, gave his. I don't see what is wrong with that.
If you disagree, no problem to say so. But to beat the shit out of him like this blog and many others are doing I think is very wrong. And going back to his job in 1999 before he became a reporter and misrepresenting what he did then as some sort of evilness because most people have no clue what his job entailed? Very wrong.
Same with an opinion he made six months ago. Totally irrelevant. It's just read meat and it gives guys like you who blame Republicans for all your life's troubles something to identify with.
But I'm sincere when I say I wish you well. I wish everyone well, because the bell is tolling for everyone right now.
Some things never chage, and that's a damned pity.
Six months ago, huh? That's still mere months after Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac went down, and the market was still freaking.
You seem to give this ass credit for being objective about the whole thing. Why? From his bio at CNBC:
He joined CNBC from the Institutional Financial Futures and Options at Sanwa Futures, L.L.C. There, he was a vice president handling institutional trading and hedge accounts for a variety of futures related products.
Prior to that, Santelli worked as vice president of Institutional Futures and Options at Rand Financial Services, Inc., served as managing director at the Derivative Products Group of Geldermann, Inc....
I suppose that if you hopped into the Wayback Machine, you'd be taking Mussolini at his word when he said Hitler was a swell guy. Jeebus.
If they did know it, at least they weren't going around saying that all was just fine, drumming up business for their buddies on Wall Street.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
They're not in FL, but I remember seeing some in SoCal a few years back.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Andy K-
What is it about his background that bothers you? Do you know what a commodities futures trader does? And he left that back in 1999 to go work as a reporter for CNBC. Back in the Bill Clinton wonder years when you guys think everything was so perfect.
Since you embolden 'intstitutional trading and hedge accounts' and then again on the next line 'served as managing director at the Derivative Products Group' I'm assuming you know something about each of those positions, but can you tell me how that somehow puts him at any kind of fault, even forgetting that he left them in 1999?
Institutional trading could mean a whole hell of a lot of things, as can Derivative Products, but unless you know something I don't, nothing along the lines of either one of those has been implicated by anyone as they pertain to commodities, much less back in 1999. Hedge accounts, there too, can mean a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily mean the hated hedge funds, a highly generic term that can have as many different variations as as many investment strategies you can think of, but in general, hedge accounts for commodities firms is much different than the typical hedge fund today. But again, he left in 1999.
You just want a whipping boy, Andy K. You'll tear him down any way you can. Imagine if he had a tax problem, something I'm sure more than a few liberal bloggers and journalists are busy trying to find out. Imagine the glee here. Oh happy day!
Alot of people saw this trainwreck coming, what the hell are you talking about?
Just because you didn't see it coming, or conservatards like Santelli didn't see it coming, doesn't mean the rest of us didn't know this was a B.S. ponzi scheme.
Hell, even I figured it out 4 - 5 years ago. And I never took an economics class in my life.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
While America burns like the Egyptian Empire did. From rich to crash, while everyone looked around wondering WTF?
...Carl Quintanilla was telling me how to invest my stocks. Now, the last time I saw him, he was filling in for Al Roker.
Hey, Rick, if I want to know which way the wind is blowing, I'll call David Faber. You are all about as accurate as TWC.
"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life."....Muhammad Ali
Funny, I had my TV swapped out at my motel (Motel 6, limited cable) yesterday after the screen went blue. Much to my surprise, I got CSPAN (not normally available) where The Weather Channel normally is. And the weather was a balmy 80F in SoFla today.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Oh yeah, you know...The American economy was like a car on the highway, if you believe him. It's doing fine, up until the point it HITS THE FRICKIN TREE!
I hear guillotine sales in America are up. I'm sure these guys will be at the top of the list of the chopping block...
Just what I was thinking. The car was working fine, only no one was steering.
then his Federal?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Seems to me that con men always go into self righteous mode when the marks demand their money back.
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
which sort of explains the behavior and MO of the common televangelist.
"Santelli later became vice president of Institutional Futures and Options at Rand Financial Services, Inc., served as managing director at the Derivative Products Group of Geldermann, Inc., and was Vice President in charge of Interest Rate Futures and Options at the Chicago Board of Trade for the firm Drexel Burnham Lambert.
Drexel Burnham Lambert was a major Wall Street investment banking firm, which first rose to prominence and then was driven into bankruptcy in February 1990 by its involvement in illegal activities in the junk bond market."
Study the symptoms not the virus...
That says what, exactly, Truth_Critic?
Surely not the guilt by association card that you guys think is so evil?
If you are doing this for free, then you must be an even bigger idiot than I thought.
Mr.Santelli was up to the gills involved with the S&L scandal.
I am tired of you peddling your bullshit over here. But you attempt at insulting our intelligence is what I find most annoying. So much so, that I would ask you to please stop it.
Tyler-
If you have something intelligent to add to the conversation. please feel and start doing it. If you have a link that so support your claim that Rick Santelli had anything to do with the S&L crisis, please show that. Do you think that convenient little slur would've escaped the rest of the Leftosphere's attention save yours?
Do you remember this blog post from last summer, Tyler?
http://crooksandliars.com/2008/07/29/another-...
A hit job very similar to this one implicating John McCain's son, who was barely a mid-level loan officer at a bank in Nevada that was having difficulties. Funny that you took it up on yourself to fight me on that gross injustice too.
And like that blog post, you had no idea what you were talking about then either. You're just a flame thrower.
So please show what evidence you have of Santelli's involvement in the S&L Crisis, something that would've happened at about the time he was just getting out of college and started in the investment securities business, Mr. Genius.
Rick Santelli is already offensive for his contempt, disdain, and absolute lack of compassion for the poor, and working class. Adding to that his greed, and support for a system that creates and expands inequality in America. What makes him even more offensive is his lack of shame, even to the point of being proud of hating the poor, and working class. The openness in his beliefs that the poor, and working class are and should remain tools for corporate America, Wall Street, and the wealthy is disgusting.
Santelli is someone who is completely divorced from reality, or from any understanding for the average American. He is not part of the we society, he is a part of the me society. Greed is the single motivating factor in his life.
The primary thing that I don't understand about those with vast wealth, and their lap dogs like Santelli, is "What is it that they feel they need, or must have that they don't already own"? Why is it in their ambition, and desire to amass more wealth, that they feel the need to push other people into poverty? Not that I want to understand them, because I don't.
I personally feel that food, health care, housing, and a living wage is a human right.
"What is it that they feel they need, or must have that they don't already own"?
Trying to buy back their souls?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Fucking free market evangelicals are as bad as religious fundamentals in their "out of touchniness".
...they are both, free market loving in your face Christianity (supply side Jesus freaks?) is a drraaaaag
I watched the online version of the Frontline episode from last Tuesday all about the crash. When Congress votes for the first time on the bank bailout (Hank's 3 page report) they show a CNBC feed on an aside, and WHO do you think is APPALLED that the GOVERNMENT is NOT VOTING FOR THIS BAILOUT? Our boy Rick "let's not help the losers" Santelli. Typical.
.
What's a depression...
... I thought everything was OK?
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
Not really that surprising. According to Rick Santelli, a bunch of tight-assed yuppies trading on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is a "good cross section of America."
And god does "Wolfman" just seem like the biggest douche.
These jackasses are the very people who destroyed the economy out of greed and turning a blind eye if not being absolutely corrupt themselves , "greed" is the only virtue they know . To listen to them critique and advise now is as laughable as it is to listen to the Republicans who now complain and " worry " about spending , borrowing and the national debt . Ivy league in bred morons who in most cases have never even known an average working man or family . I am on unemployment for the first time in my life at fifty seven years thanks to these A holes , the only good thing is that the fall wasn't very far . I think it is funny that they are the very ones to bring on Socialism , the very thing they hate and despise most !
Did Santelli have a hissy fit when Wall Street got their big multi-billion dollar bailout? Of course not. Someone posted above that he was appalled when he thought they wouldn't get it. Oh the irony.
It's the same money. Santelli was raising hell about the second half of TARP being used for foreclosures, he wanted the first half to go to Wall Street...
wishes
this is amazing http://www.real-wishes.com
Welcome! :-)
"Great minds have purposes; others have wishes."
[Washington Irving]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I'm pretty healthy too before I'm falling down drunk.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I think CNBC should give Rick a special assignment to visit these people with their losers' mortages and tell them in their face that they on their own.
Also, I think CNBC should have section of their programming for commentary. I'm so tired of them mixing it with their reporting.
when I was a kid. I remember them being identified as such, and as a youngster, it was important that I listened to these words somewhat differently. Yeah, our "news" stillwasn't completely pure, but nowadays, commentary IS news.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
You guys should be careful about how you characterize Santelli. Millions of Americans agree with his sentiment on both sides of the political spectrum. Financial responsibility and fairness are not partisan issues. The quicker you realize that, the faster we can get through this mess.
When I heard Santelli's comment, I too wanted to react with outrage, but then I looked out the window at my neighbor's ATV and boat parked in the driveway of the house that will soon be foreclosed upon, and thought that he was probably more correct than incorrect. We spent ourselves into this and now we have to pay the price.
Speak for yourself. If you were a house flipper who got caught up in the wild ride and are prepared to take your losses, that is one thing. If you are a person who was written a mortgage with as escalating interest rate when you were perfectly qualified for a 30 year fixed, you were cheated by people just like this self righteous asshat.
Also, if you are a person with no job now thanks to the economy that these wall street people have created by THEIR own rampant greed you might need a break on your regular old 30 year mortgage that you could afford when you were working. (also on Frontline, they discuss how AIG worked hard on pushing the boundaries in their mortgage lending practices and on what they were allowed to do, as far as 50 year deals, interest only mortgages and arms, creating intentional confusion and fraud.) That is a fact, it has nothing to do with wanting to "help your neighbor." The collapse came because the "FREE MARKET" Wall Street/Bankers insured each other against bankruptcy with their shareholders because they NEVER BELIEVED the government would let them fail, and when they let Lehman go because Hank P had a bad relationship with Dick Fuld and was pissed that he didn't sell his company after Hank spent all summer telling him to, the insurance between banks was revealed and the market went to hell.
And the part you mention about Fuld and Paulson getting crossways was very illuminating. Imagine it, Dick Fuld playing a game of chicken with Paulson---who is the only person that can save Lehman since he has all the money. Fuld is emblematic of the massive institutional arrogance and entitlement mentality of Wall Street.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
“If you are a person who was written a mortgage with as escalating interest rate when you were perfectly qualified for a 30 year fixed, you were cheated...”
I think borrowers should be able to bring deceptive practices defenses against the lender or the assignee of the loan. You can sue your broker for an unsuitable investment, you should be able to counterclaim under any amounts owing under the note for unfair and deceptive practices. This, incidentally, should be available to any borrower whether paid up or not.
!
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Correct. The biggest deal with Santelli is that people have the perception that he probably supported the banks getting bailed out after acting irresponsibly and then those same banks gave out huge bonuses. That is the bottom line for the reaction to what Santelli said.
Also millions of people supported Bush and still support Bush. And most of those voted for McCain. Don't forget that Obama and his economic team are only trying to get us out of this mess. There is a lot of things I would do to get us out of the nightmare. Obama's proposal is not even close to the craziest thing I would do if I thought it would end this nightmare.
You and Dennis, a match made in hell.
Anyhow, Mr. Santelli has not moral high ground to even open his mouth on this matter. He has been a parasite all his life, so it is time to request he shuts the f*ck off....
http://themessageshow.blogspot.com/2009/02/ri...
Thanks for posting this. Keep up the good work of continuing to ferret out these publicity-seeking liars and splashing their lies right back in their faces.
Regarding mortgages, I lived in a building that was going condo in 2003. It had been a Mitchell Lama building (a building which rented to middle class tenants based on their income and which was placed in a neighborhood that was going to seed. The idea was to get the middle class in there to stabilize the neighborhood, which we did. Then gentrification happened - thanks to us - and the owners decided to pull out of middle income housing and go lux condo. Most of us had lived there for at least 20 years).
One of my neighbors had had a bad year - the husband was temporarily unemployed. So they got a no-income check mortgage, for which they paid extra points and and a higher interest rate. The idea was that the husband would get a new job (the job market was still strong) and interest rates would go down. They planned to refinance. The husband did get a new job, but they couldn't yet afford to refinance. They wanted to stay in the building until their kids finished high school and attended the low cost city university system. The wife's mother became ill in NJ and they couldn't afford a nursing home and didn't have space in their apartment for mom, so the wife left a fulltime and took a part time job to help care for her mom a few days of the week. Now, the part time job is gone. The health benefits are gone along with it. They are putting every penny towards the mortgage and are trying to sell. Nothing is selling.
They did not intend to stay in an unaffordable condo. They were assured the rates would decline and they planned to refinance. They knew the husband would be able to get another job. They got an insider price on their apartment... they could not find a house for that price anywhere in the NY metro area, where they both worked. They'd have to buy cars, insurance and pay for gas if they moved, which would add to their expenses.
They weren't speculating. It seemed the right thing to do at the time. Rents elsewhere were so high they figured why not build equity instead of throwing money away on rent? They're not bad people. They thought they'd made the best decision. These people live modestly. No boats, no cars, no vacations.
I am lucky I had the money to buy. Then I sold 2 years later. I made a profit, but I was kicking myself that I didn't wait another 2 years because the apartment would have sold for another $200,000. So in a way, I hadn't made the best decision, either. Now I'm just glad I didn't get greedy and hold onto for 4 or 5 more years, thinking prices would still go up.
We all took a chance buying after 9/11. You never know. You think you'll just work extra, but then everyone gets laid off, or their hours get cut back, or they get let go because they were in their 40s when they bought, but now they're over 50 and getting fired so younger people will take their jobs for less money.
It's a brave new world. Our generation is not used to this. My parents generation can't believe it's legal to fire experienced older people before retirement age in favor of younger people who will work for less. I assure them, it is legal. They don't understand it. They had the postwar boom and they thought things would always be in favor of both workers and management.
Santelli began his career in 1979 as a trader and order filler at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange in a variety of markets including gold, lumber, CD's, T-bills, foreign currencies and livestock.
Tyler,
Mr. Master of the Universe, financial wizard extraordinaire, please tell me how someone schlepping gold, lumber, CD's, T-bill, f/x and livestock futures was up to his eyeball in the S&L crisis.
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