Rick Warren says he's not an anti-gay-marriage activist
By John Amato Tuesday Apr 07, 2009 4:34amRick Warren was on Larry King and says he is not against gay marriage:
Warren: You know Larry, there was a story within a story that never got told in the first place. I am not an anti-gay or anti-marriage activist. Never have been, never will be. The whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement. Never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going--the week before the vote, somebody in my church said, "Pastor Rick, what do you think about this?" And I sent a note to my own members that said. I actually believe that marriage is really, should be defined. If that definition should be saved between a man and a woman and then all of a suddenly out of it they made me, you know something that I really wasn't. And there were actually a number of things put out.
I wrote to all my gay friends, the leaders that I knew and actually apologized to them. That never got out. There were some things said, everybody should have 10% grace when they say public statements and when I was asked a question that made it sound like I equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest which I absolutely do not believe. And I actually announced that. All of the criticism came from people that didn't know me. Not a single criticism came from any gay leader that knows me and knows that for years we've been working together on Aids issues....
He says he's not interested in Iowa's court ruling that made gay marriage legal.
I guess he's trying to get in a mea culpa for the BeliefNet interview, which is probably the interview he's talking about here when he says he was misunderstood. It's a video interview with Warren on BeliefNet on Divorce and Gay Marriage.
He nodded his head when the host said that he supported Prop. 8, and in fact did support it over a free-speech issue, but he then said that he supported full equal rights for different lifestyles.
I'm not opposed to that as I am opposed to a redefinition of a 5000-year definition of marriage. I'm opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I'm opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I'm opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.
Q: Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?
Warren: Oh, I do. For 5000 years marriage has been defined by every single culture and every single religion....
And the reason I supported Prop. 8 was because of a free speech issue. Because, if it had, first the court overrode the will of the people, but second is there were all kinds of threats if you, if that did not pass then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn't think homosexuality was the most natural way for a relationship and that would be hate speech. ...I just don't believe in the redefinition of marriage.
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Please leave in the comments all the statements that have been collected by him on this topic.
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Sounds to me like he has created a circular argument with this. He seems to be saying until the definition of the word "marriage" is changed then he is against gay marriage, but he doesn't want the definition of marriage changed. So it's sort of not his fault if gay marriage is banned due to the definition of the word marriage. He is trying to create a barrier for himself to protect his opinion from being criticized by either side. It's lame as hell but I think that's what he's trying to do.
On the other hand, it's early so maybe my mental functions haven't kicked completely in yet.
Perhaps a martini would help. Its already after 5 in Bangkok!
Might be a tad early for adult beverages here in chilly Fla. Damn, it's going to be twenty degrees cooler here today than it was yesterday. Yesterday the temp on my patio read 92 degrees, today it might make it to 71.
In northern Illinois, we've gotten snow the last two weekends!
71 ?!?!?! Wahhh!! ;-)
today it's in the 6o's and blowing like hell..I'd say about 20-25 knots steady..
When I saw 20 degrees cooler, I pictured icicles on the oranges. Please switch to the metric system.
It'll be 23* in Seoul today, which is very pleasant, indeed. (That's about 72* +/-)
Circular logic?!? *shock*
The religious right would never engage in such a tactic! :o
[ /sarcasm ]
p o p
That's exactly what I heard. What reason could he have for defining marriage? He says, "It's not even my agenda." So why the definition?????????
But he remains a liar and a hypocrite. You can tell he's completely against gay marriage, but he no longer has the courage to outright admit it. Warren does good things, but he's clearly a closet bigot.
Fine.
Take the gays out, stick the bigots in.
Progress? Maybe.
He's just being cheeky.
watch out if he turns that other Cheek!!!
But I don't have that kinda time on my hands.
I've always been annoyed by the fact that wingers feel like they can revise history or even re-define words, terms and scientific properties. The traditional media never calls them on their lies and always repeats their revisions and re-definitions without comment. Rick Warren is just another two faced, bible thumping, superstitious asshole who finds it expedient at the moment to deny he's a homophobe. It's bullshit and it's insulting that he believes we are so stupid as to grant him anything but contempt.
Well, it's not true that in every culture, everywhere, marriage has always been defined like the Christianists do now. That's simply a historical and anthropological untruth.
Can you say "Mormon," anyone? Like 100 years ago?
Of course, perhaps god put all those other types of marriages out there to test our faith, like dinosaur bones. They're not real people or human culures, they're just part of the background noise.
Also, within the past 5000 years didn't royalty (British? other?) fairly regularly include marriages between brother and sister and other close relations (incest) to "maintain the blood line"?
..the exchange of property: My daughter for two cows.
I hate the whole idea of Marriage because of that. Unfortunately, my wife doesn't see it that way.
From what I hear in bars middle-aged men refer to their wives as cows.
Of course she doesn't understand him; he's not mooing.
in the form of polyandry and polygyny has been around for some time and still exist in some places on the globe.
themselves to be Christian, and not necesarily Mormon for that matter. I hate homophobes' selective recollection of history!
He kinda reminds me of the republican party in that he is trying to hold on to his base supporters with this issue and at the same time trying to sound more open to changes.
I'm trying to decode the jumbled mess above. Wha'd he say???
I too had trouble following his logic and syntax. It was obvious he had found himself caught up in his hypocrisy, and so he more or less babbled his answers. I don't think there was a correct complete sentence in his entire response.
Of course this could have been the fault of whoever transcribed the interview, but I doubt it.
Warren is a salesman. He knows how to obfuscate and confuse the issue with double-talk. I am sure that he (and many others) believe that he is a good man and perhaps even a Godly man, but on "hot button" issues like gay marriage, there is simply no way the religious right can dance on the head of pin. They are intolerant...they always have been and always will be, and they really have no decent argument for their intolerance except to say that God/Jesus tells them so.
..of how he speaks, he sounds like he has problems. Maybe being a Pastor is not the best line for a person who has that much trouble stringing words together to make sentences.
The ONE thing we ALL know is that Rick Warren is a total hypocrite.
met the first fool he became the first priest.
Yea, verily and forsooth good Piobr
Whenever someone has to quantify fictitious support from a group you just know the lies are coming.
does the media continue to give a podium to just the crazies? Larry King can't find anyone with more substance than this? It's like a neverending circlejerk of the exact same "experts" on all the media 24/7. Out of 300 or so million, is there not just one opinion in America that is newsworthy to these giant corporations? You look at the TV listings, and once you see the names, you just know what is going to be said. Every time.
The guest list this morning on Fox and Friends was Glenn Beck, Laura Ingram, either Newt or Karl Rove (can't remember which because there was no way in hell I would watch it) and Saxby Chamblis. How's that for fair and balanced?
Sooner or later, we need to realize that, just as the 'successful' financial experts were responsible for our nose-diving economy, that the God Squad - the 'successful' ministers and pastors of glass circus tents like - aren't here to minister or help people, they're here pushing their personal judgments.
I would say a lot of ministers first goal is to make money...lots of money. It's given to them in the form of heaven insurance payments. Their followers are made to believe that if they listen to them and give money to them they will be guaranteed a trip to heaven one day.
The ministers merely neglect to say that "heaven" is a euphemism for a pine box.
Yeah, the followers need to read the very, very, very fine print to find that out.
Anyone notice without his beard rick warren looks like a fatter version of this guy?
http://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/N/D/O/goodger...
I think he sorta looks like a fatter version of Chuck Todd!
He just hates teh gay people, and preaches against them in his..."church", and cause his sheep to vote against gay rights...but no...he's not an anti-gay activist!
What fuckin piece of shit he is!
alien visitor that comes to me in my sleep, told me that people like Rick Warren are the anti-Christ. I'm going to start my new nonprofit, nontaxed alien religion. All hail ET!!
I say, AMEN, Brother Canuck!
Now let us supplant the dollar with the grimblebuk from Alpha Centauri ...
under-rated film!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7NaxBxFWSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7NaxBxFWSo
Did he have more than one wives, and they were sisters?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/29.html
Let me just say this really clearly, we support Proposition 8"
http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/blogs/newsand...
Rick Warren is a dishonest person who tries to remain non-controversial by publicly making these neutral statements like "I am not an anti gay marriage activist" while outside the limelight, he says something completely different to his flock.
Oh Noze! Are you telling me a minister lied? Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible that he shouldn't do that? Maybe he's got a new and improved edition of the bible. ;)
You know, the one that preaches the message of Christ Jesus EXCEPT FOR the gays, and EXCEPT FOR the pagans, and EXCEPT FOR the liberals ...
I think it's printed by the Westboro Baptist Church.
Oh, I forgot about that one.
he's a "typical" religious leader. Did you know Billy Graham went to the Whitehouse on a regular basis to help leaders pray? Now why would any leader, regardless of religion, need that?
Glad I'm not a religious person when you see the way their leaders carry on.
When you have a morally-bankrupt clown like George W. Bush pimping for school prayer and things like 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, it should be clear that this is nothing but magic mumbo-jumbo.
invisible alien says their magic invisible alien is a liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fE_fdmjkck&fe...
"And the reason I supported Prop. 8 was because of a free speech issue."
And the morons nod in agreement. Listening to Warren it becomes obvious some things have not changed in 5000 years.
Rick has mentioned 5000 years for a couple years now. I'm curious as to the math.
If the Earth is 6000 years old, is he stating there was gay marriage for the first 1000 years? Did Cain get Abel off before he offed Abel?
Christ was around 2000 years ago, and clearly if you read Matthew 19 marriage was NOT the same as now. So why not state 2000 years of marriage, assuming that the day after Christ died the state government started collecting $60 from all applicants issuing licenses?
Why not make the argument that marriage has been the same for 50,000 or for 5 million years? Certainly the ape men had some sort of marriage or else they wouldn't have been able to procreate, right?
And how about the Right Wingers like Rush, Gingrich, Lars, O'Reilly, who get married again and again and again. Do they find that marriage is the same every time they do it? So are we saying they are participating in the 5000 year old tradition philandering behind their wives backs?
there has been more than one Jesus in history. Perhaps his religion quotes from a different Jesus.
Rick, would these be the "gay friends" you tried to "straighten out"?
Do you have "black friends" and "Mexican friends" too, Rick?
Rick, you're a doughy pantload. 'nuff said.
It's well established that "Doughy Pantload" is eternally reserved for just one, shall we say, person. Warren is merely LIKE, Doughy Pantload.
Fuckin' religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh0ZB9OD_fg&hd...
Prop 8 = Free Speech???
Why don't we repeal the Civil Rights Act so preachers won't be threatened when they condemn minorities and interracial marriage? I feel so bad for their free speech being infringed upon.
I'm no biblical scholar, but according to Genesis, Abraham and Jacob were Playah's by Warren's traditional definition of marriage. Jacob was knocking it out with at least 2 wives and then at least 2 more 'maid servants' to ensure God's chosen would be as numerous as the stars in the sky and the sands on the beach. In fact up until the last 500 years polygamy was an indication that a man was doing pretty well for himself. 5000K years doesn't hold the water Warren seems to think it does.
I mentioned Jacob too with a link.
But then when I was reading about Leah and Rachel, I started flashing upon this as a inverse variant reading or analogy for Shekhina and Lilith.
I subject to certain flashes
And take medication for it.
I want to go back to that definition of marriage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JZOranWFwc&fe...
Who, when asked by his wife where he had been the past couple of days, he basically with a straight face sez: "Inside a whale." And voila...
I can only think of the creative and amazing excuses that Rev Haggard made out, to cover his meth-fueled homosexual sexcapades, to his wife.
how truly ignorant he is.
... when these clowns keep repeating "...Because, if it had, first the court overrode the will of the people...'
Q: What is the will of the people? A: Mob rule.
That is why the courts should override any 'will of the people' if it is unconstitutional. Nothing in the Constitution defines marriage. DOMA should be declared unconstitutional and Warren should be declared irrelevant.
... that Jesus be tried, and Barrabas be freed.
... that there be this Tower in Babel that reached to the heavens.
... that Moses stop dragging them hither and yon through the desert.
... that people like John Adams shut his yap and stop talking about independence.
... that interracial marriage not be allowed.
as any evangelical. Also as hateful and condescending.
Leve it to Caca News Net to give a liar a forum. I bet they regret losing Beck.
Warren would be the chief spokesperson on all the infomercials. That's really what evangelicalism is like - a never-ending infomercial for whatever bobble-head is up on the podium shrieking about gawd and eternal damnation and save yourself by putting money in my coffer. Oh, and please pick up a copy of my latest book on the way out!
Eventually, we can hope anyway, Ricky will go the way of Haggard, Swaggert, Baker and all the rest of the shills for the invisible sky-genie.
till you made the comparison. Billy Mays would make an awesome televangelist.
... you'd pay for salvation in three easy payments of $29.95.
buy your way into Paradise, only now you do that on your Visa or MC. I'm sure Ricky and Joel Osteen and others have that option available at the end of each rant, right by the door on the way out of the grand mega-church !!
Remember kids, during the Nüremberg trials the nazi defendants were saying, with a straight face, that they never authorized the Deathcamps (they were "workcamps" so you know where the penchant for euphemism comes from for these apprentice of fascisti assholes). And if you look at their official record, they had been very very careful about not documenting things like any of their anti-Semitism ("final solution" anyone?). Yet their actions spoke louder than words.
Same applies to you Mr. Warren piece of sh*t. At least be man enough to own to your own drivel you hypocritical schmuck!
And same on Obama for giving this bigot a platform. I guess hypocrite birds of a feather...
...his inauguration. Neither has anything to with the other...it was part of Obama's inclusiveness, nothing more. Equating Obama with this fraudulent tub of shit Warren simply because he performed the innvocation is a stretch.
For being such an "inclusive" guy, Obama has managed to leave out us actual liberals out of the partee.
There were literally hundreds, if not thousands, of more qualified, more inclusive, and less controversial people than Warren out there. No one forced Obama to "include" this guy as an integral part of the inauguration.
In the sense that perma-criticism of Obama is not granted. The same can be said about the constant
perma-excusing of every Obama fuck up, to the point that it is starting to get annoying really.
He said he would be President for all Americans. Besides, this Warren at the inauguration thing is irrelevant.
it is automatically "irrelevant," isn't it?
I don't care much what Obama says, as much as what he does. I don't particularly feel it was appropiate to include such a bigoted and flawed man as an integral part of the inauguration.
He could have done the same "inclusion" approach as the one he has extended to liberals: as a margnial gesture, in some sort of symbolic capacity.
But to rehash that Obama inviting Rick Warren to give the innvocation somehow makes Obama the same as Warren "I guess hypocrite birds of a feather... and Obama has managed to leave out us actual liberals" is a judgmental stretch.
Because he admired his goat tee and winning personality?
There is an saying in the old world that goes something like "tell me who you surround yourself with, and I will tell you who you are."
As I said, there were literally tons of other people who were more qualified and less divisive to perform that duty. If inclusion was Obama's goal, that would have been the expected route to take.
However, the problem is that what you are trying to frame as "inclusive" it is called "pandering" elsewhere in the world. And that is why I have a big problem with some of Obama's actions. Mostly because I think he is a smart decent fellow and I am quite sure that he knows better, ergo my disappointment.
In Obama's recent travels I do believe "elsewhere in the world" differs with you.
I'm done with this. I'm just not an "actual liberal".
I dunno, birds of a feather sounds kinda gay.
Hmmmm lets see - Perpetrator of a patriarch belief system that sytematicaly defines others as pagans, going to hell infidels, and "satans" children (the best justification for entering other nations and sytematicaly killing off these "pagans" - Iraq anyone?) comes out and states his views based on a psychopathic religion that created a god who has his own son bludgeoned and murdered so that he can "redeem" the world (not my idea of sanity) try's to rewrite his own history because when he hears his own words realizes how insane they are....hey maybe there is redemption after all! The psychopaths are realizing that they are nuts! Well, at least it's a start....oy
The sanctity of marriage should be preserved for drunk heterosexuals who get married in Vegas then divorce 3 days later when they sober up. We can't allow marriage to be undermined by a loving gay couple who is committed for life.
... has no business in a government that is free from religion.
I'm not prejudiced against gays; I just think they should be stoned to death.
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It's not like I threw any stones... (but I did grab a ringside seat.)
is too an anti-gay activist! Warren's anti-gay activism is well documented by his strong support of Prop H8 in California.
Did anti-gay activist Rick Warren suddenly denounce Prop H8? I don't think so. Thus, Rick Warren is STILL an anti-gay activist. Maybe someday Rick Warren will stop being an anti-gay activist, but for now, he's definitely an anti-gay activist.
I don't how anyone listens to this shithead or takes him seriously. For his encore at his last HBO special, Bill Maher read passages from "The Purpose Driven Life" - it's drivel. The same old trite cliches you read in any other "self-help" book.
...Der Christian Fueher?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92z_54tpI0o
Let's put it this way ... if you call yourself a Christian and you allow other so called Christians to vilify gays or other persons and you say nothing then you are a hypocrite and just as bad as those who are condemning gays.
I speak out plenty. I get told I have no honor, that I'm going to be damned/burn in hell, that I have no right to quote Scripture to a Real Christian, that I'm not a Real Christian, and other top-ten dance tunes.
it will be interesting to see his future response as more and more states legalize civil recognition and validate the rights and responsibilities of same sex couples in same sex unions.
If Rick Warren is not an anti-gay marriage activist, would he ever be willing to endorse or condone legally binding civil unions (as opposed to religious marriage), with all the equivalent rights and responsibilities that marriage has, for same sex couples?
If he truly is not an anti-gay, anti-gay marriage activist, Rick Warren should be able to accept that same sex couples form civic unions with equivalent rights and responsibilities. If he cannot endorse same sex civil unions but doesn't exactly publicly take a stance against same sex civil unions, he isn't exactly what I would be able to call "not an activist". And there's more than just a hint of hypocrisy in such a position.
Why does C&L continue to attack the usual suspects in the gay marriage debate? These guys are never going to change their minds about it. You need to start holding yourselves accountable for your Prop 8 failure. Your campaign was poorly managed, run by smug people with hubris who have never left a 10 block area around the Castro.
The gay marriage issue can be won, but only if you approach it as an issue of freedom and rights for all, not just the rights of the downtown hipster class.
He looks like a gay bear ... BIG time!
And come on, this guy is simply a LIAR and a fanatical at that.
Purpose Driven. Yeah right! His purpose is $$$$$$$.
U must know then that all the proceeds for his book goes to charity because you seem so knowledgable.
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Well of course it's not anti-gay marriage when you can just call it advocating for straight marriages only, is it?
Evilgelicals will do what evil they can do.
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How come when our beliefs, aka Christians, and your don't aling it's always that we are intollerant, when clearly we are taught to love ALL people just not the sin. And it seams your love is only if others agree with you.
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