SC's Father Newman says whoever voted for Obama shouldn't receive Holy Communion
By John Amato Friday Nov 14, 2008 6:00pmI grew up Catholic and did go to church quite often some years ago and I never heard any politics mentioned from the pulpit. This is beyond disgraceful, but in today's times it happens every day among the extreme religious right.
C&Ler Jay emailed me the info:
Dedication of the Lateran Basilica in Rome 9 November 2008
Dear Friends in Christ,
We the People have spoken, and the 44th President of the United States will be Barack Hussein Obama. This election ends a political process that started two years ago and which has revealed deep and bitter divisions within the United States and also within the Catholic Church in the United States.
Between these two visions of the use of lethal violence against the unborn there can be no negotiation or conciliation, and now our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president. We must also take note of the fact that this election was effectively decided by the votes of self-described (but not practicing) Catholics, the majority of whom cast their ballots for President-elect Obama...
1. Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exits constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ’s Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation.
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
If Obama is successful (and I think he will be), the religious zealots' influence will wane across the country. I predict that this will lead to actual violent acts of aggression in America influenced by the Father Newmans of the Religious Right, and all in the name of the Lord. It's coming. Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympics bomber, is just one of them, but his religious views were never highlighted by the MSM as they were in the blogoshere. (Rudolph pleads guilty in series of bombings. In statement, bomber says ‘abortion on demand’ reason for attacks)
Here's a post I wrote on Apr 13, 2005:
Why isn't the 24/7 cable News playing up the Rudolph conviction?
This seems like the story cable news would be tripping all over each other to cover round the clock. It has everything any producer could want. A mad bomber right out of a Hollywood script that attacked the Olympics. He killed two people and injured 120! That's like almost three football teams.
White Supremacist ties and anti-semitic values. 250 pounds of dynamite just waiting for the fuse to be lit. There should be hundreds of protestors camped outside the Atlanta courtroom lashing out at judges and prosecutors for not seeking the death penalty. James Dobson should be on FOX News declaring that "the whole legal system is out of control and are derailing our judicial system. We have the death penalty for a good reason. How could any civil minded judge go along with this plea bargain anyway?" I can see signs held up amid the gaggle of the press that reads: "God said an eye for an eye!" Oh wait, sorry....he's an anti-abortionist. He believes in the culture of life. He hates gays too. Sorry, my mistake.
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At long last, a good excuse to give my mother for why I can't go to church!!
I won't get blessed by small minded church bigot who thinks the earth was created 6000 years ago? Horrors!
ago...
Some factions of the Catholic church, like the Jesuits, have been rather influential in the development and furthering of sciences. Heck the whole genetics field was almost started by a Jesuit.
In that sense the Catholic church is a bit saner, but not by much, than the snake holding speaking in tongues dominion crowd....
Like the "Wackos from Wasilla" crowd you mean?
More like the Southern Baptists from Braindead, AL
Actually - the catholic church is on-board with evolution. You're thinking of the fundies.
*
I can keep up with which denomination begins to walk upright first.
The main problem is that the fundies think that if you start to accept scientific results as fact (duh), then the contradictions that the bible portraits mean that only one faction can be right. Thus if the bible is wrong, then it means that the bible is false, and that is impossible according to them. Ergo, science is wrong no matter what when it comes to contradicting the bible.
It is a very flawed logic, laughable almost.
The Catholic was more adept at pulling that whole "not meant to be taken literally" when science and reason started to call them on their shit. It is still intellectually disingenuous.
At the end of the day, all Judeocristian religions have a batting average close to zero when it comes to explain reality. Which is why no one with a working brain should take them seriously.
Ironically, the only religion which comes close to reflect reality is Hinduism. Their Brahma year, which is their main superlative time unit, is actually quite close to the estimated age of the universe.
You don't need science to contradict much of the Bible. It does that all by itself.
What a dick!
Freakin' insanity.
diddling the youngsters, Newman.
Real convenient - dress them up in skirts - act deliberately and with intent to create a dependent, reverential relationship and then betray their trust irrevocably in ways they may never recover from psychologically. The Catholic Church of child predation.
*
Not just the root of all evil anymore. Now it's the cause of all things political.
When they decided to go with Ratzinger, rather than the more obvious choice: a pope representing the larger Catholic communities which happen to be minorities. That was my last straw with the Catholic church, left and never looked back.
They keep on digging their whole deeper into irrelevancy.
They sure hate abortion, but have no qualms about abusing those fetuses once they become yummy young boys, eh?
BTW, under this jackass priest logic, voting for a pro-war politician was the right thing to do according to the teachings of Jesus?
Also, these catholic jackasses need to read their own dogma regarding the withholding of communion....
When I read about this, the first thing I said was "oh, so it's cool with God for us to vote for a guy who wants to start more wars and kill millions of brown people, and who wants to let millions of children in this country go with no healthcare. But God forbid the poor fetuses die!"
The way I see it, they're just mad the poor things haven't had a chance to be born and experience suffering yet...
It's one of the defining differences between modern progressives and conservatives:
◊ Progressives believe that protecting life means protecting people who are alive.
◊ Conservatives believe that protecting life means protecting people who are in hopeless vegetative states, microscopic cells, flags, virginity and ignorance. (Brown and poor people are expendable.)
Conservatives care a lot about you before you are born and right when you are about to die. In the meantime you are on you own.
Progressives like to take care of each other no matter what you stage in life is. Which ironically is what the Christian dogma boils down to originally...
Suffering children is what Mother Theresa would have wanted.
If that church is in Columbia, SC, it is likely segregated.
... if anything I am just surprised there is a Catholic diocese down in SC.
The good old South wasn't too Papist friendly.
I left many, many more years ago than that - but the RAT would have been impossible to swallow if I hadn't already left. He's vile.
*
In my book he was the poorest choice.
As far as I was told, there has been a power struggle between the old factions like the Jesuits, Franciscans, et al. Who believe it or not, were starting to embrace more liberal positions, especially with some factions which are very active in the theory of liberation (which I support wholeheartedly) and the equalization of women inside the church (which is 2000 years due IMHO). And on the opposite side of the spectrum, are newcomer power factions in the Vatican represented by the Opus Dei and the Legionaries of Christ. These two are very virulent and reactionary organizations, which frankly scare the living daylights out of me.
Rat is an adamant prosecutor of the theory of liberation, and will no doubt let the Opus Dei vermin run wild. That to me is the reason why the Catholic church will continue dimming into irrelevancy, and to me that is a good thing.
The problem, is that the Opus Dei and Legionnaires of Christ are two very obscure organizations, and members of them are actually deeply embedded in the power structures of industrialized countries. There are lots of ministers and high level officials in Europe and America which belong to those organizations. They literally make the Freemasons look like a boyscout club...
I too consider myself ex-catholic because of the warmongering support for any candidate that is "pro-life" even though they espouse illegal and immoral warfare. I wish more prominent catholic politicians like kerry, biden, pelosi, would publicy renounce their membership. f@ck these theological bullies who can't understand that being pro-choice is NOT being pro-abortion, it is the preservation of separation of church and state.
In a sane world, Father Newman would no longer have any friends.
Religion is not sane. Religious folk are not sane. Most everyone pisses in the holy water when they walk in the door every Sunday.
Won't be receiving communion anymore.
That is, unless maybe he voted for Nader or maybe his good friend John McCain and Sarah Barracuda.
The Vatican's rejection of Liberation Theology gave usPresident Fernando Lugo in Paraguay. Perhaps Bush is reconsidering his land purchase?
but priests are.
Following the same path to irrelevance as the GOP...I love it.
The human race will truly have turned the enlightened corner when they banish the church from the face of the earth.
Bush has just offered Father Newman a job at Guantanamo
Dock their 5013C,... tax the bastards!
And let Obama give me a cabinet position creating untold billions for the economy,...
they are not going to shut up and we can use the $.
i think the justice dept and irs should look into church compliance with tax laws. absolutely.
Well, if you feel that way, you don't need my tithe to buy wine and biscuits. Have a nice day, padre!
has President Lugo changed the extradition laws yet? I had heard he would be, thereby making it easier if someone wants Bush to be tried at the Haugue.
When the hell are we going to start hearing about these people losing their tax-exempt status?
Who was the pro-abortion candidate?
Pro choice (pro privacy), Obama; pro-"life" (big government intrusion on privacy) McNut.
Another drama queen priest strutting around in robes. The Church gets what it deserves. I hope it chokes on a Rat Zinger!
While John Amato may never have heard of priests speaking of politics from the pulpit while he was growing up, I do remember that there were priests, unlike those of today, who had the courage and moral integrity to speak out against the Vietnam War. Father Daniel Berrigan, and his brother Father Philip Berrigan, two Jesuit priests, were out in the streets protesting the policies of the U.S. government during the sixties and early seventies. Undoubtedly they would not have looked too kindly upon a president-elect such as Barack Obama who, despite his claims of having been an anti-war candidate, is advocating that 60,000 to 80,000 American soldiers remain in Iraq even after his phased [as opposed to immediate] withdrawal plan has been finally completed. The Berrigan brothers would have seen the duplicity of his [alleged] anti-war stance when Obama is advocating redeploying two to three brigades of American soldiers to Afghanistan, where they can unleash more misery and suffering upon the Afghan people. The Berrigan brothers, unlike their cowardly colleagues today, would be protesting against Obama's call for the use of military force against the Pakistani people even if that goes against the wishes of the Pakistani leaders. The former Jesuit priests would have demanded of Obama why he had remained silent when Bush sent an air strike against Syria last month which resulted in the deaths of innocent Syrian civilians.
That is what the clergy should be doing today which is speaking out against the war machine of the United States, regardless of whether it is led by a George W. Bush or the "humanitarian" actions of a Barack Obama. That, after all, would be the Christian and moral thing to do. I submit that religious leaders today could learn a huge lesson from people like the Berrigan brothers and Martin Luther King Jr., who realized that they should be just as concerned with the here and now as they were with the hereafter.
beautifully said.
You speak with great eloquence, Erroll.
Sorry, as a recovering Catholic, I think ANY political activity by clergy should be banned. While I think the recent anti-choice stance of some priests is deplorable, I also think political activity on the left by clergy is also wrong. ANY political activity should void a religion's tax-exempt status.
This country was started as a SECULAR NATION, which is its hallmark. Asshole clergy should stick to salvation and mythology, not dabble in politics. We need a religious oversight organization which is charged with investigating violations of the separation of church and state.
I agree with and appreciate the Berrigan brothers' stance; I disagree with their using their clerical position(s) as a means of advocacy.
Keep "God" out of politics; it's never been beneficial to the public.
...that religion and politics should be kept separate, but think speaking out against war (and abortion for that matter) is well within religious bounds. When they say we must support criminalizing abortion, and especially when they tell us who we must vote for, they cross a line from religion into politics which should cost their tax exempt status IMHO.
While I may agree with you on war (under ANY premise) I disagree with you on abortion. The Catholic church asks for donations to help the "poor" in third world countries, yet they browbeat these same poor into eschewing birth control and abortion, even when these same people cannot afford another child. Just how "Christian" is it to bring another child into the world, guaranteed to wallow in poverty and/or abuse?
This is where churches fall into abject hypocrisy. Especailly the Catholic church,which is notoriously wealthy.
...on birth control, but still feel that abortion is more of a moral than financial issue and think it reasonable for a church to teach that it's morally wrong.
Here's an interesting commentary suggesting how Obama can gain some credibility by promoting abortion alternatives.
I agree that no one WANTS to have to consider abortion, but it's totally unrealistic to force a rape or incest victim to bring such an abomination to term. And an unwanted pregnancy results in an unwanted child. Is a frozen embryo a person? (Shit, it's frozen, for Pete's sake.)By this stretch of logic, is a boy committing a crime by masturbating, because he is loosing his seed w/o attempting procreation?
If the Catholic church genuinely wants to limit abortion, then they need to shed their hypocrisy on birth control and embrace birth control education. It would only result in better educated parents as well as children who are wanted.
Back in the 60s, my mother was told by her priest(!) that she'd had enough kids and should go on the pill. (Hmmm...it was shortly after my birth, and she was 37. Makes me wonder....)
Morally wrong? How does one justify covering up priest pedophilia? How does one say a man is more worthy of being a priest than a woman? These are "moral" views?
Hey, Paul, I think these are the exact issues both sides need to consider and discuss in a calm, respectful manner to find some common ground. Abortion is a tramatic issue no matter which side one is on, and needs to be addressed with compassion and empathy.
Thanks Matt. I think that commentary link had some reasonable ideas on how to begin the discussion.
...with all the church's moral teachings. Witness my opinion on birth control and the post below about women clergy.
I do think they have the right to formulate their own doctrine and teach whatever they want as being morally right or wrong. As individuals, we're free (and some would say obligated) to reject teachings that go against our conscience.
If the church continues down this path of excommunicating everyone who disagrees with its teachings, pretty soon it'll be down to just a few old guys at the Vatican and they'll probably be justifiably labeled as hypocrites.
While I am by no means a religious scholar, I think Jesus pointed out the religious hypocrisy of the money-changers in the temple, and railed against those who would use their position to influence others.
Interestingly, one of my early priests tried to reconcile evolution with the Garden of Eden, explaining that Genesis was basically a template, and that it was OK to believe in evolution as long as one believed that somewhere along the line God "gave" one of the links a soul.
Not scientifically valid, sure, but at least an attempt to reconcile science with religious dogma.
I think the significant difference is that the current priest is withholding a sacrament from people based on how they vote.
Just tax them like everyone else, and they can say whatever they want.
What do you expect from a philosophy that biases itself as being the one true path while automatically condemning all others as being, at least, incorrect, or at most, an objectively held evil?
Peace? Tolerance? Love? I don't think so.
God loves you as only a wife beater can. But everything will be perfect when you're in heaven.
Unfortunately, here's a recent letter from him:
Rev. Roy Bourgeois, M.M.
PO Box 3330, Columbus, GA 31903
November 7, 2008
TO THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH, THE VATICAN
I was very saddened by your letter dated October 21, 2008, giving me 30 days
to recant my belief and public statements that support the ordination of
women in our Church, or I will be excommunicated.
I have been a Catholic priest for 36 years and have a deep love for my
Church and ministry.
When I was a young man in the military, I felt God was calling me to the
priesthood. I entered Maryknoll and was ordained in 1972.
Over the years I have met a number of women in our Church who, like me, feel
called by God to the priesthood. You, our Church leaders at the Vatican,
tell us that women cannot be ordained.
With all due respect, I believe our Catholic Church's teaching on this issue
is wrong and does not stand up to scrutiny. A 1976 report by the Pontifical
Biblical Commission supports the research of Scripture scholars, canon
lawyers and many faithful Catholics who have studied and pondered the
Scriptures and have concluded that there is no justification in the Bible
for excluding women from the priesthood.
As people of faith, we profess that the invitation to the ministry of
priesthood comes from God. We profess that God is the Source of life and
created men and women of equal stature and dignity. The current Catholic
Church doctrine on the ordination of women implies our loving and
all-powerful God, Creator of heaven and earth, somehow cannot empower a
woman to be a priest.
Women in our Church are telling us that God is calling them to the
priesthood. Who are we, as men, to say to women, "Our call is valid, but
yours is not." Who are we to tamper with God's call?
Sexism, like racism, is a sin. And no matter how hard or how long we may
try to justify discrimination, in the end, it is always immoral.
Hundreds of Catholic churches in the U.S. are closing because of a shortage
of priests. Yet there are hundreds of committed and prophetic women telling
us that God is calling them to serve our Church as priests.
If we are to have a vibrant, healthy Church rooted in the teachings of our
Savior, we need the faith, wisdom, experience, compassion and courage of
women in the priesthood.
Conscience is very sacred. Conscience gives us a sense of right and wrong
and urges us to do the right thing. Conscience is what compelled Franz
Jagerstatter, a humble Austrian farmer, husband and father of four young
children, to refuse to join Hitler's army, which led to his execution.
Conscience is what compelled Rosa Parks to say she could no longer sit in
the back of the bus. Conscience is what compels women in our Church to say
they cannot be silent and deny their call from God to the priesthood.
Conscience is what compelled my dear mother and father, now 95, to always
strive to do the right things as faithful Catholics raising four children.
And after much prayer, reflection and discernment, it is my conscience that
compels me to do the right thing. I cannot recant my belief and public
statements that support the ordination of women in our Church.
Working and struggling for peace and justice are an integral part of our
faith. For this reason, I speak out against the war in Iraq. And for the
last eighteen years, I have been speaking out against the atrocities andsuffering caused by the School of the Americas (SOA). Eight years ago,
while in Rome for a conference on peace and justice, I was invited to speak
about the SOA on Vatican Radio. During the interview, I stated that I could
not address the injustice of the SOA and remain silent about injustice in my
Church. I ended the interview by saying, "There will never be justice in
the Catholic Church until women can be ordained." I remain committed to
this belief today.
Having an all male clergy implies that men are worthy to be Catholic
priests, but women are not.
According to USA TODAY (Feb. 28, 2008) in the United States alone, nearly
5,000 Catholic priests have sexually abused more than 12,000 children. Many
bishops, aware of the abuse, remained silent. These priests and bishops
were not excommunicated. Yet the women in our Church who are called by God
and are ordained to serve God's people, and the priests and bishops who
support them, are excommunicated.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Therefore, I call on all Catholics,
fellow priests, bishops, Pope Benedict XVI and all Church leaders at the
Vatican, to speak loudly on this grave injustice of excluding women from the
priesthood.
Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador was assassinated because of his
defense of the oppressed. He said, "Let those who have a voice, speak out
for the voiceless."
Our loving God has given us a voice. Let us speak clearly and boldly and
walk in solidarity as Jesus would, with the women in our Church who are
being called by God to the priesthood.
In Peace and Justice,
Rev. Roy Bourgeois, M.M.
PO Box 3330, Columbus, GA 31903
Paulfooter
That was an excellent letter by that priest and especially his statement that "Silence is the voice of complicity." Despite what some people feel, those in the clergy certainly do have a right to speak out [as do those in the military] against those atrocities that are perpetrated by our government. As Father Bourgeois correctly observes, "Conscience is very sacred. Conscience gives us a sense of right and wrong and urges us to do the right thing."
When enough people spoke out against the Vietnam War, which included, among others, the clergy and veterans who had returned from Vietnam, it helped to bring an end to that illegal, immoral, unjust, and idiotic war. The hope [to use one of Obama's favorite terms] is that if enough people speak out against the actions of our government today, then innocent civilians in third world countries will not be slaughtered by 500 lb. American bombs and bullets.
The American invasion of an agrarian, third-world sovereign state from 1965-1975 that was in the midst of a civil war and that was subjected to the dropping of 9,000,000 tons of bombs and of 48,000,000 litres of agent orange (dioxin, the most lethal poison know to man) in addition to the killing of 2,000,000 Vietnamese and untold carnage and trauma perpetrated on millions of woman, children and the elderly was not a war as Congress has not declared war since 1941. It was a war crime of horrific proportions for which the US has never formally either acknowledged nor expressed sorrow. Language is important, Errol. Its misuse results in confusion and continued ignorance.
Sec Humanist
Since I was intimately involved in the middle of the Vietnam conflict, I hardly think that I need to be lectured by you regarding the war crimes that were committed by the United States against the country of Vietnam. You also seem to be inferring that because I labeled it the Vietnam War [which many historians, even on the left,have done] that I am somehow not aware that Congress bought into LBJ's claim that the North Vietnamese had fired first at the USS Maddox, thus abrogating Congress's sole right to declare war.
I will in turn caution you about making assumptions since, as you correctly note, "Its misuse [language and making assumptions] results in confusion and continued ignorance."
Also, the name is Erroll with two ls, not one.
I respect your views on the Vietnam War, Erroll, and I agree with them.
However, I disagree with the idea that clergy should be involved in protesting/advocating war. They should steer clear of a position on such things; if not, their institutions should be subjected to taxes. The Constitution is quite clear on this issue.
Religious advocacy has been the bane of our democracy since its inception. It's way past time to take the religious crap out of our government.
Since when is providing an accurate description of events -- i.e., reality -- a lecture? By the way, "inferring" means coming to a conclusion. I think that you want to say "implying". Language, ERROLL, is integral to communicating.
Sec. Humanist
You do an excellent job of again assuming that I was not somehow aware that war crimes were being committed by the United States against the Vietnamese people and that only Congress has the right to declare war. Again, you would do well to insure that your accusations are accurate before typing them onto a keyboard. That is not an inference but is instead a direct statement.
The idea going in was to rescue Vietnamese Catholics from the godless Communist horde.
Met Roy in Costa Rica while he was trying to reach President Oscar Arias on moral grounds because Costa Rican police were and are being sent to the School of the Americas in Fort Benning ,Ga.At first ,Oscar agreed with Roy and then ,later,changed his opinion.The present Pope said:"An excuse is a lie guarded," and "Weeping will endure the night,but joy comes in the morning".Roy is our Morningstar-as he personally knew two of the four Maryknoll laywomen that were raped and killed when Archbishop Oscar Romero was assassinated in El Salvador as per graduates of SOA.The future starts today as we are the history of tomorrow.Go to SOA.org and begin with information before you consider in leaving your mark.
My Mother's brother is Tom Mannion and had a parish in Bed-Stuy,Brooklyn.Like Roy,he attained flack for speaking out for women in the priesthood.Google Tom Mannion,25th anniversity and see my role model that I admired and during the Tet Offensive which lead me to the decision to become a 1-0,i.e.,conscientious objector.As alternative military duty,I was with the Haudenosaunee-commonly known as the Akwesasne Mohawk of the Iroquois Confederation.Google up:Oren Lyons on You Tube on Sovereignty issues and see how,after 30 years,Oren left his mark with the UN and their 46 resolitions for Indigenous rights as a People,not a population.
Circling back to Roy,go liste to his You Tube expose of SOA for 56 minutes and see how a call to conscience entered his soul.Join us in the greatest struggle you can endure.We are the Story.Welcome Brothers and Sisters...........Tom Schmidt
I'm a Catholic, and I believe in the Holy Trinity. But I have stopped giving to the church because of their archaic stand on a woman right to choose, and their alliance with the wacko religious right.
I might be going to hell, but at least it's warmer than winter in NY State which can be hell!
Hey, at least you aren't an unrepentant former Hitler Youth member.
it's time for a Second Reformation! Warmongering, exclusion of women, politicization of religion...enough!
When Father Newman pays his taxes he'll get the right to speak out on politics publicly. Until then, he is only authorized to tell fairy tales and BS bible stories. Bo back to worshiping Pope HitlerYouth and molesting children- leave the real world to the sane, please.
And I have no regrets. If Jesus were around now, he'd be a Democrat, not a Republican. It just drives me nuts that people don't realize that Jesus was a freaking liberal, come on!!!
how many wars have been fought in the name of religion?
nuff said
almighty dollar? guess not nuff said
Indian Nations.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/11142008/pr...
Rather unsettling.
The lord our god has given us these 15....oops.....10, ya 10 commandments...Monty Python
Nice "History of the World" reference, dude! Er...but I think it was Mel Brooks.....
My mistake. Thank you. Now.....Bring out yer dead....Bring out her dead
Now THAT'S a nice Monty Python reference.....
"I don't want to go on the cart......"
"Oh quit being a baby!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L940yIeVZzE
Mel Brooks is truly a god (small 'g')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU
Another god.
It's been wayyyy to long since I've seen that.
Thanks. :)
( Mel Brooks.)
We joke about this all the time with my lunch bunch. What were the other 5??????..maybe #11 'Now I'm mad,disreguard the first 10,and bring me Noah!!!'?.
According to Father Guido Sarducci, the last 5 were more like "suggestions" i.e. #11 was "Don't feed dogs chicken bones." They just weren't glamorous enough, so they've been lost to history.
So easy to fit a small terrified kid under there. The catholic church is the Whore of Babylon and has no connection to God or Jesus.
Yeah, but as an altar boy many decades ago, access to altar wine was a plus! I can't count how many masses I served with a wine buzz because I arrived in the sacristy before the priest did. Yee-HAA!
You Too?
Oh Yeah. I must have screwed so many masses by ringing the bells at the wrong time. I always wondered why the priest looked at my brother and I with anger in his eyes. I guess he knew.:)
... thanks to the generations of alter boys before me who got a head start on alcoholism.
I had to settle for carving my initials into the pew on the altar. I got a glare out of that one too.
Hey, for me it was a family tradition. My grandfather got kicked out of the altar boy fold for stealing the altar wine (damn, why didn't I think of that??!)
Insofar as mis-ringing the bells, I enjoyed cutting off the priests by ringing them just a bit too early, heh, heh.
Funny story: at my Dad's funeral in 1989, my Mom asked me if I'd "serve" Mass, and who am I to argue with her? (Even though I was 30 at the time.) So I did, in his honor. When I asked the actual altar boy where the patent was (the thingy we used to hover under worshipers' chins lest they - God Forbid! - drop the Eucharist out of their mouth) he looked at me like I was crazy.
Guess that in this day of grabbing the Body of Christ with your own grubby paws, some things have been relegated to the heap of "history." Kinda like Latin was shit-canned when I was 5, and eating meat on Friday was OK'd back then too.
Maybe that can hearten any women "called" to the ministry: dogma can be changed pretty easily.
Despite the catholics never ending creative interpretation of god's will, there's absolutely nothing in the bible that suggests abortion is evil or an abomination.
In fact you have to look very hard in order to find references to it at all. And most of it comes from Sodom, when a bunch of drunk sailors tried to rape a couple of angels.
There are orders of magnitude more references about usury for example, thus making the whole banking an unholy thing. And yet, even the Vatican has their own bank...
People are very selective about what they want parts of the bible they want to focus, and without exception every Jewish and Cristian dogma tends to adapt biblical scriptures to fit their interests.
In fact, if you analyze God as a character through the bible, he or she suffers from a sever case of bipolar disorder. Wouldn't that be fucked up, if we are children of a mentally ill god? LOL!
The sad part is that the bible was supposedly transmitted orally in its beginnings, with the natural mutation that it implies while it is being passed from generation to generation. Then it was assembled by committee, again with all the pruning and modification that implies. And then the final touchstone comes from the multiple translations... with the "pollution" that introduces. It is sad that half (or more) of humanity use such nonsensical document as their moral compass... frightening really.
Ahh, but there is language in the bible that clearly suggest the earth is the center of the universe. That's why the church tortured and imprisoned Galileo.
treat homosexuality the same as adultery; no better and certainly no worse. I've never been able to understand what the big deal has been and why the focus in placed on the gays. Some of the mega-churches will openly welcome hetero couples who are living together unmarried yet cannot stand a single openly gay person in their midst.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jesus would be down with that.
/sarcasm
That's why anti-choice forces make the unscientific claim that life starts at birth, so it will be covered by the 1
Why I'm not a catholic...
Investments in these contractors yielded Congress members between $15.8 million and $62 million in personal income from 2004 through 2006, through dividends, capital gains, royalties and interest. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) and Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), who are two of Congress’s wealthiest members, were among the lawmakers who garnered the most income from war contractors between 2004 and 2006: Sensenbrenner got at least $3.2 million and Kerry reaped at least $2.6 million.
This filthy lucre is just fine with Father Newman. Pro-life indeed.
Wow, I didn't realize that about Kerry. I thought he got most of his fortune by marrying the Heinz ketchup widow.
You don't hear them talking about excommunicating Sensenbrenner (Incense Burner LOL) for his war profiteering, either.
the millionaire mob.
Wow, I hope Kerry hadn't realized this. This is totally against his history. He worked against the Vietnam War, and alot of the anti-war movement was about the war profiteers.
How often do you get 2+ million dollars without "realizing" where they come from.
It must be awesome to have money fall in your lap just like that...
"151 Congressmen Derive Financial Profit From War"
By Ralph Forbes
Is this guy related to another Forbes? Like say, the one who ran for president on the GOP ticket?
Who lost in the primaries?
Hmmmm? Inquiring minds want to know?
But Forbes didn't force senator Kerry to vote to allow Congress to abdicate its war making authority. Forbes didn't force Kerry to do nothing to cut off funding for Bush's war crimes.
He's kind of like Marcel Marceau miming a traffic cop.
No one gets to cross his imaginary street.
I was raised in the catholic church and went to catholic schools for nine years. I had religion every day, mass every day and countless religious assemblies. They hammered the lies home.
I personally lost my faith many years ago now - and we raised our children without faith and I'll never be sorry that we did. I could not in good conscience willfully subject my children - and especially my two daughters - to the small-minded misogyny, bigotry and religious intolerance of the catholic faith.
They are free of the hatred and intolerance of religion and they are better individuals and citizens as a result.
*
Kudos for raising non-religious kids. I hope they will be fully invested in supporting the betterment of this secular nation.
Any anthropologist can tell you that abortion has existed in known civilizations throughout all recorded history -- and it always will.
*
Mass anymore.
Easter by Jefferson Airplane
Golden velvet robes on Pope Paul, he's talking--he's stalking devils of
flesh. Rides through the streets instead of walking. I think his holy story
is a mess. All I did last Easter all I did was paint some eggs. It was a
resurrection holy day-- no more nails in the holy legs. Only one true holy
book in your hand. Singing in latin nobody understands. Licking wafers
paper thin.
Ah, stupid christian isn't it grand? Is that your reason for this day? Do
you have a little something holy you'd like to say? Something about a magic,
sacred, holy day. You look holy and humble on your knees, but it looks
funny when you run that way. Pope Paul taking all your money for turning
your feet into clay (pigeon).
One man of peace dies, and a hundred wars begin. You keep murdering
people in his christian name--I thought he said--I thought he said that was
a sin. Soldier where have you been? What is your reason for this day? Do you
have a little something holy you'd like to say to me? Something about a
magic, sacred, holiday. All I'm going to do this easter--I'm just going to
look for eggs. It's a resurrection holy day--no more nails in the holy legs. No
more brains in the christian.
That is awesome. I've never heard that before.
.
And let us not forget Tom Lehrer's "Vatican Rag" - always one of my favorites...
"First you get down on your knees,
and fiddle with your rosaries......
.............to the end..........
Ave Maria, gee it's good to see ya', doin' the Vatican Ra-a-a-g!"
now!!!!
Gotta love how this religious leader can threaten his congregation, and other Catholics. I wonder how many of them are now in serious fear for their souls.
Isn't he essentially saying, "If you voted for Obama and do not repent, you are damned to eternal hell?"
I find this horribly abusive.
Yup, that's the Catholic church, alright. If you don't toe the party line, you're damned to hell.
Unless, of course, you give us lots of money, then we can absolve you.
Think anullment. It's a financial thing......
Father Newman would rather have people voting for the divorced guy? I guess dogma changed on that one too.
In south Carolina, I believe. We better watch out.
http://www.vimeo.com/2141298
receive communion on Sunday if he/she had not gone to confession first (Friday?) if sins were of a certain severity, I believe. Anyway, I used to be the one who would remain seated/kneeling while the rest of the pew cleared out to receive communion, knowing full well that most people receiving blessings had not done confession.
I learned it was just more fun sitting back and watching all the glares from everyone else. You could just see them trying to figure out what sin or crime I must have done...
Catholics are leaving the fold in droves, and you chase them away even more vigorously. Nice move, Padre.
How come the "Catholic League" isn't attacking THIS guy? He's helping to kill their church!
Recovering Catholics are a large segment of the Unitarian population.
Come on Down !!!
Never thought about it. Maybe I will!
One more Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
He was amazing. Thanks for the great clips, Acting Patriotic.
it could be if religion was done away with once and for all. Along with greed, religion is the cause of most of the strife in the world today and always has been.
don't approve of abortion?
don't have an abortion.
end of story
ps: tax the fuuking churches. they utilize services for which they repay nothing.
Of course all you posters know you are going to burn in hell..until then pass me that bong....
edited... woops... read that wrong... pay me no heed. (and pass the bong)
Did you know that there is no litteral reference of "Hell" in the Bible?
There is a place described of eternal damnation and one that has a lake of fire, but it's not given a proper name.
I suspect that "Hell" comes from the Nordic goddess of death, Hel. As early missionaries adapted Christianity to match or counter the pagan beliefs of Europe.
I grew up Catholic and still identify as such, though I'm not a very good one. I've remained a Catholic because, compared to other churches (that I've been exposed to, anyway)they *do* tend to stay away from politics, and there's (IMO) just less hypocrosy in general (for example, when they say say they're "pro-life", I might disagree with that, but at least they actually mean it and are also against war and the death penalty). I've never heard a priest go into politics during Mass, most Catholics I know are not all that conservative at all, and I don't think that this guy represents Catholics in the US at all. Gross.
The Catholic Church comes out with a statement decrying torture, war and executions, then I might give their stance on abortion some weight.
As Dogbert would say: "Pah, Pah."
I'm a mouth breathing retard with a genetic lack of high level synapses. I will keep you stupid.
So this guy doesn't approve of President Obama - And he's not going to let his invisible friend play with you of you do!
Big deal, everyone should take the money they would put in his collection plate and buy themselves something nice. trust me, your God doesn't care if you give money to this guys bullshit temple.
to stand up to these religious fascists. Got o www.au.org and support the Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Track down these religious thugs and email them. The IRS should investigate them.
I wish they would uphold the same standards for people who vote to keep "handsy" priest. A friend of mines parents still attend the church where the priest molested him. Shame.
I got to be proud for being an American for a week and two days. this just takes the wind out of my sails.
Churches have been preaching this stupid b.s. vote Republican, Anti-Abortion every since I can remember. Nothing has changed. they make it seem like having an abortion is a simple decision, Why? because they fail to have an outreach program, refuse to teach safer sex and condom use, and don't take care of the babies that are born out of wed-lock. they shun those people.
Religious people are hypocrites. That message of Hate for gay people, Yeah thats what Jesus would have said and did. I like him but I can't stand his followers.
Hitler used God to spread his propaganda too.
Why are there Egyptian statues in the Pine Garden at the Vatican?
This is just another example of why most organized religion sucks. It is organized by self righteous humans & hypocrites.
All religion is about is controlling people- Churches give people a set of rules they must obey, an imaginary God they must worship, and a fictional Hell they will burn in if they don't blindly obey....
The 'pro life' agenda is really about ramming Jesus down our throats, controlling women, and denying them the right to contol their own bodies and destinies.
So it hardly comes as a shock this church is demanding obedience from it's members, telling them they must vote a certain way....
(ps- I was raised Catholic, and saw the church for what it really is- a cult)
Do these religious radicals preach anything other than hatred and intollerance? Somehow I don't think a Catholic priest has the credibility to question the ethics of anybody...
If churches like this one feel they can force their members to vote a certain way, I say tax the crap out of these churches..
Of course, you never hear these insane fools say that you shouldn't vote for McCain because he supports a war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people when the Church condemned that war. You never hear them saying you can't receive Communion if you voted for a politician who supports the death penalty when the Church is against the death penalty (as an aside, Communion is not something you receive; it's something into which you enter. Christ communes with you and receives you as fully as you commune with and receive Christ. The sacrament creates a relationship [a physical relationship in Catholic terms because we Catholics believe in transubstantiation] between the suppliant and the Savior; and relationships are not things you receive but rather things you enter. The use of the word "receive" is an attempt to maintain control of that relationship, rather than allowing the suppliant to control his or her own relationship with the divine). You also never hear these right wing freaks remind you that the American Bishops issued a statement saying it is all right to vote for a politician who supports the right to choose as long as you're not voting for him or her because he or she supports abortion rights. All you ever hear is this relatively small group of right wing freaks who only care about one thing the Church teaches; those who care about the whole of the Church's teaching, including the part that says it's a human right for workers to organize, that all people are entitled to health care and education, all that lefty nonsense, those who remember those parts of the Church's teaching tend to be more forgiving and open minded and not want to deny anyone the solace of communion.
Life begins at conception and ends at birth. Love the fetus--hate the child.
i support the church in this. anything that drives people away from religion is a net benefit. can't complain when the church themselves are doing it.
republicans talk now about being more inclusive. they definitely are going to have to be since their base in the pews is shrinking.
I think the Catholic Church should have another Inquisition: see who's real and who's fakin'. Denying a few wafers and a swig of wine ain't gonna cut it.
Now - if they (the church) can only find out who in the hell was screwing all those little kids for the last 2000 years, we'll talk as to whether or not I take a 13 year old daughter for an abortion who was raped. Should we also discuss the tortures of the Inquisitions and the Crusades??? Naw - we don't really want to embarrass them.
By his blatant disreguard for human rights and mixing his personal political ideals with OUR religion, he should be ignored and shamed for his denigration of his position in the Catholic Church and driving the faithful further from the altar.
What a dumb shit head.
All Father has to do is keeping talking and the catholic church will keep losing people. We are tired of the priests and ministers judging people when they don't lead a clean life either. I stopped going to confession telling a priest my sins. I feel I can talk directly to him.
God in his infinite mercy gave us free will. He did not instruct his apostles to be judgmental, be divisive, be intolerant, to be ones that persecute, to be politically involved to the point of denying civil rights, to be politically involved threatening denial of spiritual support.
There are no Democrats or otherwise, that relish the decision of someone choosing to have an abortion. There is among Democrats support for a person who chooses to have an abortion; because the fragile situation begs that one puts aside ones own personal interests and despite the circumstance offers an embrace if needed; a hand to hold, a shoulder for tears to flow; an ear that allows the time to listen; a mouth that does not speak with judgment.
The choice, difficult as it is; was given to us by God. Free will is a blessing that God will judge, and no human can begin to assume that mantle. God's plan for an individual is not known to any other person; assumptions of sin or forgiveness thereof, at the end of ones life is not an ability that any man has.
Spiritual guidance is not manifest by legal means or laws. True spiritual guidance is detached from mandate and is free from judgment and persecution.
Our bodies, our minds, our spiritual quest is not open to the involvement of government or politically motivated clerics.
God and only He Himself knows the outcome of a each individuals life; a life that every individual that ever existed has been full of a multitude of sins and indiscretions. God and only He Himself knows the contrition and the journey and the end result of an individuals life. No human has a any place obstructing or judging the blessing that God has bestowed on us; free will.
May we learn, may we grow spiritually from our individual lives; may we always be respectful of God's blessing of free will.
Free will my ass! That’s a lame excuse to justify your god who would create evil and atrocities. Was the Holocaust because “God in his infinite mercy gave us free will” was given to Hitler? Is this the god who gives the free will to people who blow up abortion clinics or some other terrorist act for the name of god and religion. What kind of god can be so evil... and you worship him?
God is for people who do not think and religion is the root of the worst evil.
...that voting for "the other guy" or supporting Bush is supporting genocide in the Middle East, the Persian Gulf states and elsewhere.
Let him say what he wants. After he pay's his taxes!
Have some decency and don't disgrace my Church by playing cheap politics on the back of the spiritual well-being of your brethren.
If one start to refuse communion because of sins against Life and Justice and so on, pray tell who will be able to receive Communion?
Aren't you throwing the first stone here?
Tsk tsk!
Oh. It is not from the Bible. It is some small minded bigot who should be paying tax dollars on every dime he steals from his flock.
I see from the website this statement:
Statement of Monsignor Martin T. Laughlin
Administrator of the Diocese of Charleston
CHARLESTON, S.C. (November 14, 2008) - This past week, the Catholic Church’s clear, moral teaching on the evil of abortion has been pulled into the partisan political arena. The recent comments of Father Jay Scott Newman, pastor of St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Greenville, S.C., have diverted the focus from the Church’s clear position against abortion. As Administrator of the Diocese of Charleston, let me state with clarity that Father Newman’s statements do not adequately reflect the Catholic Church’s teachings. Any comments or statements to the contrary are repudiated.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions.” The Catechism goes on to state: “In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path; we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.”
Christ gives us freedom to explore our own conscience and to make our own decisions while adhering to the law of God and the teachings of the faith. Therefore, if a person has formed hisor her conscience well, he or she should not be denied Communion, nor be told to go to confession before receiving Communion.
The pulpit is reserved for the Word of God. Sometimes God’s truth, as is the Church’s teaching on abortion, is unpopular. All Catholics must be aware of and follow the teachings of the Church.
We should all come together to support the President-elect and all elected officials with a view to influencing policy in favor of the protection of the unborn child. Let us pray for them and ask God to guide them as they take the mantle of leadership on January 20, 2009.
I ask also for your continued prayers for me and for the Diocese of Charleston.
Victory in Kentucky Klan Case
Jury awards $2.5 million in case of teen beaten by Klansmen
The Southern Poverty Law Center won a crushing jury verdict against one of the nation's largest Klan groups for its role in the brutal beating of a teenager at a county fair in rural Kentucky.
Read More
The biggest sin around here is that we still allow these theocratic political organizations,aka organized religions, to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
This free ride is probably worth hundreds of billions dollars of lost revenue by now. Think of what that money could do, in a non-religious fashion, to rebuild the crumbling infrastructure of this country.
By avoiding taxes, these cults get to spend the money buying bibles for people who could care less, and by sending missionaries around the world to try to convert religious peoples to their own cult's beliefs.
Oh yeah, and they also spend it on trying to elect a more theocratically-inclined government, or to take away the civil rights of US citizens...
Take eat...this is my body
Take drink...this is my blood
Hmmm...Sounds like the Church of Dracula.
501(c)3....hint hint...
If you want to talk about politics from the pulpit (or anywhere else), maybe you and EVERY OTHER CHURCH IN AMERICA ought to PAY YOUR TAXES.
Talk about "welfare queens"!!!!
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