Sen. Pat Leahy busts Bob Scheiffer's use of the right-wing talking point "Banana Republic" (And a bit about Cheney)
By John Amato Monday Apr 27, 2009 11:00am
(h/t Heather)
In this clip you can see how easy it is for conservatives to have their talking points easily slipped into the traditional media at the drop of a hat. Even when they are meaningless and laughable. Today's accomplice is Bob Schieffer from Face the Nation. Sen. Pat Leahy is getting very adept in catching this from the talking heads that are interviewing him.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, is there the risk? I mean, and you know the argument you-- we’ve been hearing it all that-- that we somehow criminalize our political system. I mean, you know, in banana republics one group throws out the other group and they put them all in jail and then they stay there till somebody else comes along and throws them in jail.
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY: (Overlapping) But I'm not--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Are we going down that kind of trail here?
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY: No. I think not. And I-- you know, I've heard the talking point that’s-- usually by people who are afraid they may be looked are the ones making that-- making that argument. But I'm not out for some kind of vengeance and, certainly, if you have people in the field who are told here are the orders from the White House, here is a legal memo telling you what to do and how to do it.
Now, nobody is going to prosecute them, although, I would note that when FBI agents were there and they saw what was being done, when they reported back to the headquarters, FBI director Mueller said, "No, you can't do that. That violates our own rules. That violates our understanding of the law. You have to step back" -- and they did, till word got around.
What I want to know is this: Who were the people in the Office of Legal Counsel, in the President's Council office, even in the Justice Department who knew this was against the law and still told people to go and break the law? I am far more concerned about those people than I am going after somebody in the field.
Does Bob Schieffer actually know what the term "Banana Republic" means?
From Wikipedia:
Banana Republic is a pejorative term for a country that is politically unstable, dependent on limited agriculture (e.g. bananas), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, and corrupt clique.[1] It is most commonly used for countries in Central America and Africa such as El Salvador, Belize, Grenada, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, and South Africa. In some cases, these nations have kept the government structures that were modeled after the colonial Spanish ruling clique, with a small, largely leisure class on the top, and a large, poorly educated and poorly paid working class of peons, though it might have the (fake) trappings of modernity (such as styling itself a republic with a president etc.)
Frequently the subject of mockery and humour, and usually presided over by a dictatorial military junta that exaggerates its own power and importance—"the epaulettes of a banana republic generalissimo" are proverbially of considerable size, usually portrayed in satire with a pair of mops—a banana republic also typically has large wealth inequities, poor infrastructure, poor schools, a "backward" economy, low capital spending, a reliance on foreign capital and money printing, budget deficits, and a weakening currency. Banana republics are typically also highly prone to revolutions and coups.
And then Bob takes what Dick Cheney says as gospel about CIA memos that will exonerate4 him. Isn't it obvious to Schieffer that if there were any of these "memos," Bush would have leaked them already?
BOB SCHIEFFER: What about somebody in Congress? We know that the ranking members and the chairman of the intelligence committees were apparently briefed on this, apparently, Nancy Pelosi was briefed on this. You are going to go after them?.
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY: That's not the part I'm going after, but let me tell you this, the commission can look at that. If you had a bipartisan commission or a nonpartisan commission, they'll look at all those questions and they will look at the transcripts of what was it. As you know, there is a great deal of dispute as to what extend they were-- they were briefed. And the difficult thing of this if you are in these briefings is you can't talk about what's in-- in the briefing.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So should you release all of that? I mean--
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY: Well, why not. I mean so much of this stuff has been in the public domain now anyway. Senator McCain said one of the best tools in getting people to join al Qaeda was showing the pictures of Americans torturing people at Abu Ghraib. And as so many military have said this didn't help us, it's not who we are, we shouldn't have been doing it. And I commend those people in our military at the highest level who said it was a mistake.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what about-- what about the suggestion that the vice president is now making that more of these things be released so the American people will have a better idea of the results that they got.
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY: Well, you know, I find this very interesting concerning the fact that the vice president didn't even want to admit that he was part of the three branches of government. He was saying that, when people are asking questions, we're kind of a fourth branch, so we don't have to answer. I'd be delighted if he wants to come up and talk about it under oath. I would be delighted to have Vice President Cheney come up and talk about it.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Under oath?
SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY: Under oath.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But not if he refused to do it under oath?
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In France, they had large numbers of collaborator trials in the aftermath of WWII.
Bob forgot to use the phrase "show trials". That's supposed to come somewhere after the phrase "banana republic". Bob must have only gotten half the talking points memo.
I looked up banana republic last week because I thought maybe I had the wrong definition of the meaning. Nope, I was right and I have no idea what they mean by using it. Maybe they hope the right won't bother to look it up and just figure if the word "banana" is in it, it must be something bad.
of slogans, catch phrases and pander to a crowd that revels in their backwardness and lack of education. The hypocrisy of their use of the word is lost on them, that and the fact that the previous moron-in-chief and his mafia buddies stole the election and were completely complicit in creating a banana republic themselves.
Republican Bob Scheiffer really confused me about that "Banana Republic" thing. I thought he was talking about the Fall of 2000 when a group of fascists overthrew an American presidential election in Florida. Bob & Fox News are very professional in their use of propaganda. They would have been rock stars in 1930's Germany.
It's definitely a case of projection
I'm having another drink, kicking back and going to make popcorn 'cause my friends, this is really going to be a great EGG-ON-THEIR-FACE moment!!!hahahahahahahaah
What if Cheney refused to testify under oath? Really?
Just what is the implication there Bob? That the US can’t touch former executives? That they are immune from prosecution and above the law?
In that case we ARE a banana republic by definition – politically unstable (Fox propaganda), dependent upon a limited commodity (oil), and ruled by a small self-appointed and corrupt clique (2000 election anybody?)
Yeh!, see everyone HERE, gets it! THEY havn't gotten, that they are showing us the butt-end of their stupidity, by reveiling themselves, by means in projection/propaganda!!! I know, no one here can really believe that any human-looking being could be that STUPID!!!! How are they going to back-peddle on that one???? They are closeted, gay, fools who have just 'outed' themselves POLITICALLY!!!
...enforcing the law makes us a banana republic? ISn't it strange how prosecuting criminals or holding them accountable for their crimes becomes "criminalizing politics"?
I've got an idea. How about if the politicians of whatever their persuasion stop committing crimes and stop using their offices as focal points for criminal enterprises? How about if the electorate stops electing people who anybody with a functioning brain stem should be able to tell before the fact are going to sell out their trust in order to benefit themselves?
How about if we stop showing unearned respect to these news readers with their phony gravitas, and start naming them for what they are whenever they indulge in lies, deceptions and propaganda?
{EDIT} BTW...what self-respecting banana republic doesn't have it's cadre of toadying "journalists" who stand ever ready to promote whatever the tin-pot dictator du jur wants promoted? Most of our so-called journalists would fit right in.
Schieffer has always been a faithful Republican tool. Hey Bob, the last eight years we've been a "Banana Republic".
I caught that as well. A corrupt ruling class that refuses to look at the crimes of itself or the previous administration, is still every bit as much deserving of the term Banana Republic.
The ironic thing is that "Banana Republics" were puppet governments set up by the CIA at the behest of the United Fruit Company.
Them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE9cWIVnR6A&fe...
See most people here, know that 'what goes around, comes around', or it's Karma, or we could listen to God, of whatever persuasion, who says 'Vengance is mine' or we all could have a much classier hard drive command stored that says, Do not steal, Do not lie, Do not take the lives of other people, Do not take more than is needed for the day that have been given, Whatever it is that we use for a guide, we KNOW that the stuff this MAFIA pulled, we wouldn't touch! PUNTO, end of story.
and might I add that the racism that I have seen associated with the term over the years (and with imperialism in general) turns my stomach.
I always saw all sorts of racist stereotypes used to characterize any governments/countries that are non-white and are or have been suffering under, white European imperialist rule.
That the Republicans and their press would use the term as a serious reference shows their view of the world quite plainly.
And a great Steve Goodman song!
Bob Schieffer is wa-a-a-y past his prime. Time to retire, or get a gig like Andy Rooney where he can blather without consequence.
...it's Senator Leahy. Go Pat, go!
I believe in Leahy, but there are Reid and several other Democrats that want to stop this. The briefings must be released to the public or to a special prosecutor to find out if and what exactly members of Congress were briefed on regarding torture. Otherwise, the Democrats will take a hit on this for covering up whether it is warranted or not.
The hoopla about Texas possibly leaving the nation is code for "Prosecute our glorious Bush and Cheney, and watch out!"
Imagine the result! The Democrats decide to put these two Texas residents on trial, and the next thing you know, Texas secedes. Now how to you force extradition? And would Obama be willing to send troops into Texas to capture Bush and Cheney? Yea, right.
Bob is still all pissy because President Obama was never shot down in an airplane and therefore does not deserve to be president.
is in fact the GOP's dream of what this country should be. Tax cuts for the uber wealthy. Big Pharma writing our prescription drug legislation. Propoganda catapulted at us disguised as news. Anything and everything marked as "Top Secret". dissenters labelled Anti-Banana.
I just wonder why these wing nuts didn't go up in arms over posse comitatus and Bush's gutting of that?
This is just another example of Republican projection (hmmm...sounds a little like "vomit," don't it?).
They envision a country run by and for the wealthy--the oligarchs, themselves--then project to the media that this is what "the other side" is doing. In short, they accuse their opponents of doing that which they themselves are doing in an attempt to cover up their own misdeeds.
Call it what it is. Put Cheney, Rumsfeld and Yoo in the dock, under oath.
That has always been Karl Rove's game plan.
Scheiffer is buddies with Dubya so of course he's going to take his side. It's interesting that he says one side throws the other out and puts them in jail. The Dems didn't throuw anybody out. They won elections. And unlike what he suggests no one is trying to put anyone in jail for being on the other side. They're trying to investigate possible wrong doing. Assuming they have this investigation and charges are filed only then will anyone be at risk of being 'thrown in jail.' Why is it that conservatives always think an investigation (of them) is the same thing as a guilty verdict?
. . and they put them all in jail.
In this case, that would be called "justice".
at Banana Republic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT7AGPU51Zk
Banana Republic is a pejorative term for a country that is politically unstable, dependent on limited agriculture (e.g. see below ), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, and corrupt clique.
We don't resemble that no not at all.
(e.g. Being we import most of our food anymore)
I have heard this banana republic talking point all week. Not one person has asked which is more a banana republic, a country that tortures its enemies, or one that upholds it own laws?
John, please let David know there is another story about a guy shooting cops and believing that Obama and the govt. were conspiring against him. This time it was in Okaloosa county in Fla. Kos has a post about it titled "Another Obama-hating...."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFFr91atHqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMDO0mJI9c
We ARE a Banana Republic. Just not in the way these people mean.
Here is my last comment to that end.
We are, but South Africa is not. I am not at all sure why they are on your list.
Also, why quoting the unreliable open source Wikipedia?
Certainly you can do better than that.
The language of the article itself is jingoistic. The so called 'Banana Republics' were DEMOCRACIES that we overthrew.
WE OVERTHREW THEIR DEMOCRACIES because our State Capitalists objected to them asserting sovereignty and wanted to install their own henchmen.
The United Fruit Company wanted cheap bananas without interference from the citizens of their own country. The CIA obliged them.
It was Anaconda Copper in Chile, the CIA obliged them.
Where is the sensitivity and understanding of our FOUL history and coercive relationship to the world.
Here is one piece on Guatemala and the CIA sponsored Coup d'Etat that overthrew their second democratically elected President who was attempting land reform.
Here is the CIA FOIA on the topic.
There are many others besides Guatemala.
Ask Eric Holder about Colombia.
These countries where we overthrew their elected officials were NOT banana republics before we stuck our noses in. They only became that way when we set up some military dictator who would protect us from communists.
They were countries where the people were attempting self determination.
It is OUR propaganda the decries the communists.
That is always THE red herring, no play on words intended.
The Corporations do not want interference from the people in their own country.
Any country, ours included.
We are a Banana Republic, because just like them, here, democracy is hijacked by the Oligarchs.
Let Obama prosecute Bush and the Oligarchs and prove me wrong.
They'll have Obama blowing a corpse live on national television quicker than you can say Jackie Robinson
hahahahaah, You are in rare form tonight!!! Can't stop laughing!!! ahahahahah eyes full of water from laughing so hard. Thanks
..READ THE DAMN LAW! Torture is illegal and everyone Sir, including yourself, if you knew about the torture, you're guilty! If you tortured, you're guilty! If you authorized the torture, you're guilty!
It is that simple; now, get on with appointing the special prosecutor so we can put this national nightmare to bed and the criminals in jail, once and for all!
He did say this
Who were the people in the Office of Legal Counsel, in the President's Council office, even in the Justice Department who knew this was against the law and still told people to go and break the law?
So he has no doubt they have gone and broken the law.
Ape-man, there is no doubt about it if you look at eye-witness (and film-witness) evidence and test it against the relevant treaties and conventions to which the US legally bound itself when it signed them.
Unless the Bush administration secretly pulled us out of the treaties & conventions. That would be hard to do, but I wouldn't put it past 'em.
But maybe I've seen too many monkeyshines.
I believe that Bob Schieffer has a friendship with Donald Rumsfeld if I recall correctly. I almost never watch Farce the Nation.
I almost never watch CNN, or This Week with George Stehanopoulous either.
I will watch Nightly News with Brian Williams mainly because he worked in the Carter administration, and before you snicker about Jimmy Carter, the Klanservative aligned oil oompanies ruined the economy during his fine administration.
I don't blame Carter for the gas lines, I blame Exxon, Mobil, and the rest of the oil companies.
It's ALL about the Banana.
you behave yourself.
I'm restless...my ignore user button got a workout the last day or so.
I haven't seen much of tyree ever since I put him on my ignore list. I suppose if no one answers a troll they will go away, but even if they don't go away I don't have to read their posts.
in theory, I don't like to use it, but it does make the forums much more readable.
Bob Schieffer would be lost without the republicans. The republicans are toast.
The MSM would be nothing without the republicans. Does that mean the MSM is toast too? They really would be nothing without each other. Right? If not then please describe the MSM in the near future without republican pundits to hold their hands. Tell me what that will be like.
The MSM industry will have to find all new buddies for their fodder.
Investigae and prosecute all wrong-doers, regardless of party. If there's a little "collateral damage" in the political class, they get what they deserve.
If you look at how real banana republics work, they don't HAVE changes in administration. They have a generalissimo who decides what the law is and how it will be obeyed (aka Commander in Chief). He maintains a military that supports him and runs the country for his own benefit and for the benefit of his supporters (aka nonbid contracts). His word is law and if he does it, it isn't against the law (aka DOJ memos). No protest is tolerated (aka Republican conventions - NY and Minneapolis). He controls the population by monitoring their every movement (aka warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act).
With the whole power of the government behind him, it takes a revolution to overthrow him (aka Obama campaign). But when that revolution comes, if it is well done and legitimate, the former regime is brought to face its crimes in court (aka Argentina and Chile and now Peru). Decent people can hope and pray and work to see to it that the same pattern is followed here. The people who committed crimes need to be brought to justice and face their accusers. Otherwise we remain a huge banana republic.
I'm sure happy they finally got Fujimori!
"...(A) banana republic also typically has large wealth inequities, poor infrastructure, poor schools, a 'backward' economy, low capital spending, a reliance on foreign capital and money printing, budget deficits, and a weakening currency."
Sounds rather like booshmerica.
Banana Republics also have really expensive clothes, too?
In banana republics. If we don't investigate and prosecute torture, then we in fact live in a banana republic.
STOP CALLING CHENEY "THE VICE PRESIDENT"! HE IS THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT! IT'S A PRETTY BIG FRIGGIN DIFFERENCE.
Ya, i thought he was talking about vise president Biden.
is that IT IS WHO WE ARE!
This nation needs to take a good long hard look at what has been done in our names throughout the world.
Hell take a look at what this nation has done to its own right here.
First, if anybody knows banana republics, it's the Cheney/Rumsfeld gang - they were instrumental in more than a few. Second, which 'political' gang was it that went after their opponents over a blowjob?
So, torture = necessary and excellent, blowjobs = criminal behavior. Why doesn't this get brought up on teevee?
Thank you for the dictonary def. That cracks me up!!! PUKIES COMING OUT OF THE POLITICAL CLOSET. hahahaahahahaahah
Anyone in our government who knew about the torture and were in a position to raise a flag to the public and did not is guilty. Those who were guilty through association should lose their jobs. Those who developed policy and gave the orders should be tried in a court and sent to jail if convicted. Depending on the crime, all of us 'little people' would be fined, placed on probation, or jailed and would carry a permanent record. A public servant who breaks public trust should be removed from office at a minimum. It doesn't matter if they are Democrat or Republican.
chimpy's Banana Republican Party? new name, same game.
good example of the talk radio monopoly pounding in another talking point through coordinated uncontested repetition from 1000 stations
then it goes to fox tv and actually becomes acceptable to celebrity talking heads like shieffer,
no other medium can do that consistently and it's been doing it for 20 years, unnoticed by liberals/dems who think it represents some kind of genuine spontaneous popular sentiment but if they just listened to the radio once in a while they'd know it got started there.
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