Why David Zurawik's argument is bogus
By John Amato Wednesday May 27, 2009 12:00pm
David Neiwert posted about David Zurawik's frothy appearance with Howard Kurtz last weekend as he bashed MSNBC. On 'Reliable Sources,' David Zurawik decries heated cable talk by shrieking about MSNBC's 'fascism'
Zurawik felt compelled to explain himself in a little more detail online.
As you can see from the video, I am harder on MSNBC than Fox, because this NBC sister channel has outrageously decided it doesn't have to cover news on weekends and holidays -- and yet, still calls itself a news channel.I have to admit, it is a great business moldel: Don't cover the news. let someone fulfill that expensive task. We'll just put on ideologues like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow and let them mock our opponents as we opine about the news that others like CNN went to trouble and expense of gathering and verifying.
He's upset because they choose to run some of those Locked Up episodes during the weekend, really? Here's a little info for Z: MSNBC does cover the news on the weekends, they just don't do it 24/7. He should probably check their schedule sometime before making the claim that they don't cover the news on Saturday and Sunday. And WTF does that have to do with how they cover the news in general or if they are biased in their reporting? Which is worse, showing some non-news shows on the weekend, or pushing a political agenda 24 hours a day, seven days a week for as many years as they've been on the air?
Fox News tries to shrug off their right-wing bias by saying they have opinion talking heads, so they don't consider those shows to be news. But if anyone -- and that means you, David -- were to watch Fox News, starting with Fox and Friends right up through Neil Cavuto, you would see a right-wing bias that would make your head spin -- all dressed up as news reporting. Heavy anti-union messages, insane free-market Wall Streeters and anti-Obama segments dominate their coverage, but somehow Z isn't outraged by that behavior as much.
Sure, MSNBC's opinion lineup, from Hardball to Maddow is largely center-left commentators, but they start their mornings with three hours of Joe Scarborough before going into seven straight hours of news blocks that for the most part interview politicians from both parties along with the usual battle of the consultants. Andrea Mitchell has her own hour and you can't call her a lefty.
So while I agree with some of Z's complaints, please get some basic facts straight. And his criticism of MSNBC gives us a look into the window of the mind of a Villager critic.
And yes, these cable shows have hurt America, because they are always looking for a "conflict" which will increase ratings rather than examine the news and issues at hand with an emphasis to inform us rather than persuade of. This approach aided Bush and Cheney in their quest to go and invade Iraq, and look where that has taken us: Thousands dead, innocents lost, billions of dollars spent, torture, military commissions and wiretapping soon followed. Good job, cable news.
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What?
Another WATB?
Like totally...
A republican check their FACTS before they start ignorantly flapping the gaping hole in their faces?!! Surely you JEST!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPVw-Vl1ow
"We Republicani no interested in facts. Facts no support theocracy. Many facts no support my world view."
Hardball is left? Really? That's why people on both the left and right hate him. Tweety is all about the game, the conflict. Watch Jon Stewart take him down because Jon was right on the money. It's not a fucking game and it's not some gladiator competition, it's people's lives.
Ed couldn't hold his own against a light-weight righty, let alone the talking heads he has on. Ed, learn some facts so you can refute all the bullshit. While Ed may be left, his show is so wishy-washy and he lets the righties walk all over him. Whatever.
Why his argument is bogus is that he bantered about the F word (fascism, not fucking idiot, which is where I would put this clown) by using MSNBC as an example.
Sorry, dude, your argument is bogus because if anything is fascist, it is Fox. You know, Fascism...that mixture of state and business?
Allow me to throw the F word out to you, sir. Fuck you.
What is it, maybe one day out of each month Tweety is center-left? (And thats only now because the republicans aren't in power anymore). I know it happens on rare occasion, but it doesn't cancel out the rest of the bullshit he spews.
goes with the winds of ratings alone.
I don't think he has an ideology other than making him some moolah. Nothing else matters. Period.
1. Programming is terrible for what it coosts us.
2. Cable news not covering the news.
I go to msnbc.com to watch Rachel, Ed and K.O. Sometimes I get some of their other news also.
is that Fox is on almost all of the basic channel lineups, while you have to pay extra for MSNBC.
But I am sure that has nothing to do with Fox having higher ratings. Nope, nothing at all.
manipulating the propaganda? Surely you jest.
is the sheer number of ignorant people who fall for it.
They have to be programmed to be scared shitless or something. I simply cannot believe that there are that many people who are just stupid.
is that so many supposedly educated people fall for it.
Love how this imbecile only pointed out Olbermann and Maddow as examples of over the top emotionalism. Kurtz sat quietly with his thumb up his ass during Zurawik's meltdown...as usual.
since Mom made him quit sucking it on air.
It should also be noted that "ideologues" like Keith and Rachel spend much of their time on the air reacting to and correcting the misinformation fomented on the Right on a daily and obnoxious basis.
that both of them have facts to back up what they say. They don't make shit up as they go.
I can't wait until this clown writes his next book: The Fallacy of Facts.
is going to try and point out what news organizations are really news organizations, he better get his facts straight. Very few of these cable reality faux news channels are real news at all. The show's hosts are celebrities who interview each other, give opinions, and basically just try to use propaganda to support one party over the other. Not exactly journalism.
once again we can agree on something.
global warming. Been sick alot last few weeks. Perhaps I'm morphing towards center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly8fGxeHpE4
CNN is just trying to smear upstart MSNBC. After all, CNN is America's foremost news station. Just ask Wolff Bullsh*tter.
There is a fundie in my group who still, to this day, still insists in calling CNN the "Clinton News Network" and uses that acronym as proof of their liberal bias. The capacity of conservatives to make up their own reality, and to use that same made up world as proof to justify their own prejudices is astounding to me...
One day I was bored, and in a white board we wrote the names of conservative-leaning hosts vs. liberal-leaning hosts (even though the term liberal was used very very very loosely in this case). And even though there was at least a 10 to 1 ratio on the board of conservative vs. liberal names. The same fundie idiot still maintained that the media has a "liberal bias" because... and here is the kicker "everyone knows that."
Talk about the power of deception via manipulated perception. How can you reason with people like this? There is no worse blind than he who does not want to see even with able eyes.
the power of repetition!
If I read comments at different journals, I inevitably see the liberal media proof of the NYT, LAT, CNN, etc., etc. Basically anything not Fox is liberal.
Tell the same lie over and over and over and over and over and people will eventually believe it.
And, Christ, how long ago was Clinton in office? And your 'friend' still has Clinton derangement?
I have to tolerate his nonsense due to work, I tend to shy away from political discussions at work.
Alas, you are correct... it seems that Goebbels must be ever so proud that his techniques are being taken to a whole new level by the scions of his American pals. Heck, Prescott Bush must be turning of joy in his grave....
My Daddy always said: "shit, or get off the pot". If MSNBC is going to be a news and commentary channel, drop the friggin' Lockup and Predator shows already. How does that fit, for crying out loud? In that one way, they look like a bunch of amateurs compared to Faux News.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh3m1aN9B5Y
How do you find all this stuff??
Man, I am soooooooooooo culturally illiterate!
Which is it? I forgot.
ALL of them!! :-)
to MSNBC. Lockup is way to macho.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=...
... a "news" channel like FOX, that runs things like "FOX & Friends" (which seems to be nothing more than a daily dose of dumb & dumber & dumberer), that awful comedy thing that they put at midnight (you know the one where they called Canadians p*sies even though they have the biggest contingent of troops in Afghanistan and just suffered 4 casualties on that very same day), and which has a war criminal like Oliver North, a boob like Geraldo, and an insane clown like Beck among their regular rooster....
Probably said channel has little to teach anyone else in terms of "professionalism" but that is like my opinion, I guess...
Dave, can we expect a book soon dealing with the power of progressives on tv & radio? That should fill 4 or 5 pages. Corporate America essentially owns it all, from Congress through the MSM. List the actual progressives in both houses of Congress. That would add another inch-long list of names. Your five-page book should be a best seller, if you throw in a box of Crayolas.
the universe and human stupidity. I would add to that list: "the capacity for projection by the right in this country."
I don't blame Einstein for not knowing that 3rd infinite element, since it had not been discovered yet in his life time.
element"
Wow, now his soul can rest, at last.
Why does MSNBC show those incarceration shows so much instead of showing more news?
than watch Olbermann, and when you add in their families and friends
you have quite a crowd. Besides, what's not to like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7pNiELcZsg
he should be incarcerated.
incinerated?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuaAxs04fAQ
.
why didn't I think of that? LOL!
in this corner, GE, and in this corner, newscorp!
fight!
His argument is bogus. Faux never covers the news they make it up. At least MSNBC covers it during the week. On that note it was funny last night BillO decided to "spin" Cheenee's speech instead of talking about the supreme court nomination. You just can't make this stuff up.
The obvious retort is that MSNBC is a response to Fox News. Fox is Democrat/Liberal bashing 24/7. Soooooooo, if a media critic is going to comment on the screeching coming from cable news, wouldn't it make more sense to START with FNC? MSNBC is a foil to the constant partisanship of FNC. Even so, compare the number of Conservative voices on Hardball, Countdown, Rachel's show & The Ed Show. Former REPUBLICAN Congressman Scarborough has a full 3 hours every morning by himself; the number of "liberals" on FNC can be counted on one hand. The lightweight Alan Colmes left, with no token left replacement. "Media Watch" has purged all the left-of-center commentators, making it near unwatchable. The Blog "O'Reilly Sucks" counts the numbers of conservatives v. liberals on his show; currently, it's running 5 to 1 in favor of conservatives.
Here's who got that finger-jive thang going:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ca_edg6RE
You know help IS available.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=57363...
I don't care what Fox News calls themselves, they can call themselves the Queen of Sheeba for all I care, it's a mixture of slanted news stories and right-wing opinion, that's all.
And the shows on MSNBC are left-wing opinion, but as far as I'm concerned I agree with what they say. So I'd rather watch them.
If you're a republican you watch Fox, if your a democrat, maybe you watch MSNBC. Why? Because the people who watch political show are partisans and they want to watch people they agree with.
It takes a real twit to throw around the terms fascism or even socialism though. These clowns don't even know what those terms mean. If dissent = fascism, or our media cannot broadcast political opinion, our founding fathers would be turning in their graves.
These people hate the left-wing opinion shows because they expose the right wingers for what they really are. And they hate them because it's working.
Ya. it's not as if there isn't a clear right and wrong here. It's no longer left vs. right. It's become left vs. wrong, and the wrong are always wrong, all the time.
Yes, I am a liberal. And, yes, I would watch MSNBC over Fox any day. But what I truly long for is real news, real debate, not partisan bullshit. I would like wonks to give me things to think about, no just blatant spin on every issue...not arguments for the likes of Tweety go get a leg wiggle over.
Isn't that how it used to be?
Hell, my age is apparently showing.
is Newshour on PBS. Yes it has gone more rethug in my opinion, but it is still the most balanced show and at least the guests are given 10 minutes or more to talk about a subjet.
Why anyone watches the other shows, including the morning shows, excapes me. They get a guest, one question, two minutes and its "were out of time" and a commercial.
Why waste your life to be punished?
i hate the fact that msnbc, a subsidiary of one of the largest news organizations in the world (nbc), takes the weekends off.
i find myself watching faux news on the weekends (w/filters) because i want to actually see news. i don't need to see prisoners locked up or women pushed past their breaking point or keith morrison.
they really can't call themselves a "news network" unless they go 24/7, not 24/5.
This media hack is inconsistent. MSNBC is a "bad news channel" because they run Lockup (Raw!) over and over (and over and over) on the weekend. How about after-hours? CNN has news all through the night; Fox has commercials for P90X, Tony Robbins & Select Comfort beds!!! How is THAT news?
Although I think I would agree that cable news shows like Crossfire etc, are degrading the news we all need to hear, I think that with Fox News giving voice to the Republicans, we need to hear an alternative, and those are K.O. and Rachel.
I do think Jon Stewart was correct when he went on CF and implored them to actually talk about news and not have these talking heads incessantly arguing. I just feel that now with Fox having their side, we as progressives need a counterbalance. I can turn on BBC or maybe CNN to get mostly unfiltered news.
I am curious as to what ideas Zurawik had that John agreed with, given that he seems one-sided in his network criticisms.
You and your cohorts at CNN are little more than manipulative propagandists delivering
Politborocorporate approved theology instead of impartial journalists delivering factual material. Thanks to you and your corporatist, right wing shills, the level of discourse we experience (with three exceptions, Moyers, KO, and Rachel) on cable is little better than a circus freak show. And you wonder why we have a problem.You want to raise the bar of political discourse in America? Start by cleaning up your own act and leading by example instead of blaming others.
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