Meet The Real Victim Of Last Week's Terror Attack On IRS Building - Vietnam Vet, Vernon Hunter
By Logan Murphy Monday Feb 22, 2010 10:00am
Last week, Joseph Stack set his house on fire, drove to the airport, jumped in his plane and flew it into an IRS building in Austin, Texas. This deliberate, cowardly act of domestic terrorism resulted in injuring thirteen IRS workers and left one man dead -- a veteran of the Vietnam War:
When Ken Hunter first heard about a plane crashing into his father's office building in Austin, he said he hoped his dad, Vernon Hunter, wasn't there.
After several attempts to reach his father, a 67-year-old IRS worker, he discovered his dad was missing.
In the hours that followed, Ken said he heard lots of talk about the pilot's motivations and felt compelled to speak out on his father's behalf.
"There was just too much going on about what the guy did and what he believed in, and enough's enough," he said. "They don't need to talk about him. Talk about my dad. You know, some people are trying to make this guy out to be a hero, a patriot. My dad served two terms in Vietnam. This guy never served at all. My dad wasn't responsible for his tax problems." Read on...
Stack's political views can be debated, but he wasn't the real victim here. He committed an act of terrorism that took the life of an American veteran. As the son of a vet, I felt compelled to write this post and make sure that Vernon Hunter was acknowledged instead of being overshadowed by the sick, selfish coward who ended his life.
Mr. Hunter's son said it all. Nothing that I can add. Rest in peace, sir.
Our sympathies to Ken Hunter and his family for the loss of his father. Joseph Stack murdered Mr Hunter. Anyone who attempts to excuse his behavior is just endorsing murder.
Indeed. Very little justifies taking anyone's life. Especially innocent people.
No one in the media made a noise about this all weekend
R.I.P., Mr. Hunter
They were too busy deciding if Tiger Woods was sincere with his apology.
...on Green960 makes it a point not to mention the airplane pilot's name in an effort to make sure he is eventually forgotten and at the very least he fails at attaining the notoriety he sought.
Rest in peace, Mr Hunter.
I just saw Mr. Hunter's son on tv. Seems Stack's daughter called her dad a hero. I do not blame Mr. Hunter's son for being upset, he has every right to be.
Even Stark's daughter is calling him a hero. Thanks for the post Logan, it's Hunter who needs to be remembered not the coward.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100222/ap_on_re_...
I just found this rather outrageous.
Aw, c'mon. His daughter did at least admit that her "hero" father's action in flying a plane into a building was "inappropriate."
"Joe Stack's adult daughter, Samantha Bell, spoke to ABC's "Good Morning America" from her home in Norway."
Norway.
Her home.
In Norway.
Irony is dead.
Mr. Hunter's son made note of where she lived during the interview I saw with him.
The wack-jobs in texas claim that stack was a registered democrat.Consider the source.
i don't pretend to know whether he had a d, r, or i on his voter registration card, but his suicide note has this to say about communism and capitalism:
"communism: from each according to his ability, and to each according to his need.
capitalism: from each according to his gullibility, and to each according to his greed."
When you juxtapose what Mr. Hunter did for our nation, was doing for our nation and what his plans were for the future with what Stack had done it is patently obvious who the hero is. I hope that they televise Mr. Hunter's funeral. I'd watch.
i'm sure that mr hunter helped little old ladies cross the street, was kind to animals, and evidently his children loved him, but on the basis of the evidence offered (i.e., military service and tax collection) the man is no more of a hero than mr stark. one man flew across an ocean and killed people who never threatened him, because he got a letter in the mail from the draft board. the other man flew across town and attacked a symbol of oppression, because his family was being threatened by a different cog in the same heartless bureaucracy. neither action makes either man a hero. that mr hunter saw fit to punctuate his crimes abroad with a career of robbing his fellow citizens at home makes him an unsympathetic victim, but in the end still a victim. that mr stark decided to punctuate his sympathetic crisis with an act of murder-suicide transformed him from victim to villain. if he was aiming for martyr, he missed the mark by 1.
i wonder how many of the people that mr hunter (fitting name for a predator) robbed for a living quietly hanged themselves over the remnants of their shattered lives. i wonder if mr hunter ever lost a single night's sleep over the devastation he caused his neighbors. hero? hardly.
My deepest condolences to the family of Vernon Hunter. He did not deserve to die in such an awful fashion, by the hand of a cowardly, angry man such as Joe Stark. Hunter bravely served his country twice in Vietnam and then the IRS, an agency whose employees must deal daily with people like Joe Stark as well as the rest of us. Rest in peace, Mr. Vernon Hunter. Thanks to your son for making sure you and your contributions to our country are not forgotten.
Nothing can justify the violence the a**hole Stack inflicted.
Stack was obviously suffering from mental health issues. That alone makes me wonder why does the M$M talk about him in serious tones? Just because he was against paying taxes?
Stack was too much of a wussy to just blow his sorry brains out and leave the rest of us alone. He was trying to kill others or he could have attacked the building when it was empty.
Stack is/was a SOB.
... fits nicely with the teabagger anti-tax/anti-biggovernment talking points being shoved up the media's arse.
and see how many comments a post on Vernon Hunter generates compared to the comments made on posts about Stack's ideology.
How much have you read about the three cops killed by Polawski?
n/t
What's ironic is that news outlets inevitably have 'mission statements' and management directives that tell us to focus on the human angle, and how the story impacts our viewers/readers.
Then we go out and make a fuss over AirNutjob pilots like Stack.
I have had the opportunity to see much coverage of both Hunter and Stack.
Hunter's family acknowledged that Stack's wife and step daughter were victims too. Did Stack's real daughter acknowledge the man her Dad killed, those he injured, or terrorized in the 15 minutes of fame ABC's bookers gave her so they could claim a great "get?"
In all the coverage here nobody examined Hunter's charge that three or four Austin firms colluded to keep the rates of contract software engineers like Stack artificially low. Nobody focused on his efforts to get his home declared a church for tax purposes.
"Nobody focused on his efforts to get his home declared a church for tax purposes."
I had read of stake's admiration of the church's tax benefits... maybe he should of toned it down a bit and become a non-profit?
So Stack preferred the steeple approach? :-/
I think you meant Stack's charge. At least, I hope that you did.
delusional paranoia that the rightwing and Retroublicans encourage and feed off of.
the same. Stack's attack was totally senseless and aimed at killing innocent people. That people would lionize this obviously mentally impared individual is obscene.
My condolences to his family.
Don’t get scared, it’s what the US McVeigh terrorists want.
Not one of these morons stood up to this crackpot??? Turned him in??? Called the cops??? Called Cheney in his lair???
My personal favorite was the terrorist attack in Glasgow where the terrorist, who was on fire was punched out by a drunk bloke.
Glasgow – a city so tough they kick shit out of people on fire.
I happened to be in Glasgow the day those two dopes tried to drive their SUV into the airport building. I was visiting relatives in Scotland, and was in a wedding at a church when that happened, and didn't hear about it until the reception later that evening.
The Scots (my Grandfather immigrated here to the US) are a very proud and tough people. According to the news there, at first bystanders thought it was an accident, and went to help the guys on fire. Soon, they realized it was an attempted, failed terrorist attack, and, according to one of my Scots cousins, "gave him a good old-fashoined Glaswegian ass-whipping!"
What a shame that this fucktard Stack didn't fail at his attempt like those two blokes or the underwear bomber, or Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber. God bless Vernon Hunter and his family. What a shame to have died due to the rage of someone whom he had never met. Stack wasn't a hero; he was a fucking coward who didn't even care about his wife and stepdaughter, evidenced by his burning down their house before taking his last flight.
If he was really that hurting for money, why didn't he sell his plane?
It's not going to get better. Mr. Hunter is one of the first to understand that Stack had an option to attack when no one was in the building. But he didn't. He attacked when the building was populated. He is a terrorist.He wanted to kill Americans! In this day in age his friends and family are also to blame. How many more will die? I'm not overshadowing Mr. Hunter, but, we need to EXPOSE Stack, the coward, the rich coward "with a boatload of money" who attacked American soil with the intent to kill Americans. In a day in age when an "attack" is an "attack"......And Stack Attacked Americans!
Nah, Stack was a suicidal narcissist, not a terrorist IMO. Otherwise, WTF did the jerk burn down his house and leave his family homeless? http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/
Mr. Hunter, thank you for your service and I hope they erect a monument in your honor. Or better yet, name a form after you. :-)
I like that idea. I'll sign a petition. Form VH-1040 anyone?
An excellent non-ideological analysis of the kind of crazy tragically exhibited here.
Cullen wrote in the first sentence:
[emphasis added]
I think he's wrong. Stack spent decades writing his manifesto. His lack of editing skills proves it:
[again, emphasis added]
Just sayin'...
maybe he's just bad at math, a weakness which caused his IRS trouble in the first place. :-)
He was an engineer. Math skills are a prerequisite.
This is true.
...for more than 20 years. He just kept adding on grievance after grievance as he went along.
words from an old file. And Cullen may have missed
what you flagged because Cullen is bad at math and history. I have also heard Mr. Stark was an engineer but never heard reference to an engineering degree or liscense.
Abd guess what? This is really supposed to be in memory of his victim. Vernon Hunter.
Samtha Bell praises her father as a hero for his "anti-government" views, views which she agrees with.
Here's a suggestion: Leave. No one is forcing her to stay here under such an oppressive government.
She lives in Socialist Norway.
.
So she lauds her father for flying his plane into a building and killing Vernon Hunter after Stack couldn't get away with tax cheating. Yet she lives in socialist Norway where taxes are higher but she gets better services. The cognitive dissonance is almost paralyzing...
"And get off my lawn!"
She left.
'Cause real Amerkins don't need that commie crap.
apparently she moved to Norway because she couldn't get Medicaid coverage and was pregnant.
The anti-government types have no problem going to the government for help when they're the ones in need.
Stack was a terrorist, but he is white, so therefore he can't be a terrorist... Assholes!!
Direct from Fox News talking points.
he's white, hates taxes and the government.....by Fox rules, he must be a patriot.
RIP Mr Hunter....thank you for your service
Way to go Stack...murder a innocent Vietnam veteran because you hate the Government.
... he (Hudson) wasn't a hero! He was one of THEM! Part of the SYSTEM!
Sheesh.
been a tax protester meeting with the IRS. Or any one of the employees of private firms that occupy other space in this privately owned and leased office building. The IRS paid rent. They weren't the only occupant.
over the past year, the victims seem to be people in the same boat as the perpetrator.
... Iranian and North Korean missiles have better guidance systems than American nutcases.
But hey, once he's labeled a "terrorist," the fear can take over and we don't have to worry about silly stuff like the "rule of law."
Authoritarians can be found often on the right, but those on the left have been getting quite vocal. When I her things like: "He is a terrorist. He wanted to kill Americans!" it becomes painfully obvious that the fear has taken over for many who will eagerly welcome the jackboots.
This is about justice. Progressives don't need to play the "fear" card, because we know right from wrong. When we call Stack a "terrorist", we're talking about what he did, not what we're afraid of. It's about time "those on the left" started getting vocal. They need to get more so to counter the right wing noise machine. The fact that you call out "those on the left" tells me you are just another reich wing troll.
How much more "justice" do you think you're going to get?
. . . and "those on the left" referred to authoritarians on the left.
I probably should have been more clear on my pronoun, but there is a somewhat delicious irony about being labeled a "reich wing troll" for an anti-authoritarian post.
I guess some of us dislike the jackboots in all instances; others like them just fine when they're on "our" side.
I for one welcome our new insect overlords.
Well then, our jackboot costs are probably going to triple.
My condolences to his family. May God rest his soul.
What Stack did was no different from what Timothy McVeigh did, other than the fact that Stack took his own stinkin life. Stack murdered an innocent man, and hurt others, just like a suicide bomber, just like the guys who flew jets in the WTT on 9/11. It's a miracle more people weren't killed. Anyone who applauds this guy as some kind of hero is totally demented.
"Anyone who applauds this guy as some kind of hero is totally demented."
And effin evil. IMO
And while it meets the definition of terrorism, people like Stack should be treated like common criminals, not elevated to demigods.
Including the Xmas bomber. Mirandize him posthumously to prove the point. (of course it's absurd, but I want to make the point.)
A real Amerkin would torture him (of course it's absurd, but, well, you know :)).
thanks Logan
and thanks to your father (and mine)
Joe Stack was a coward, a crybaby, a terrorist and a murderer.
He was no victim and he was no hero.
Rest in peace, Mr. Hunter. Thank you for your service. You won't be forgotten.
So a right wing domestic terrorist murdered one of his own colleagues. Amazing.
One of his own colleagues? Care to elaborate on that?
your posts get pulled?
or just pulling his post again? (It tingles like Chris Matthews' leg you know.)
Rest in Peace, Vernon Hunter.
A belated thank you, for your service Mr. Hunter. ♥
and every candy ass coward who admires him.
i spit in your fucking face.
in response to Mon, 02/22/2010 - 09:33 — Shadowgm:
That's it - I'm so sick of seeing these insane statements - "he was one of THEM", "He was the ENEMY". Get your head out of your a**. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who work for the govt either as federal employees or as contractors who are simply trying to do their work and have f*ck all to do with whatever you're protesting - yet you'd blithely lump that all together.
Grow up
"I can hear the 'Stack was a hero' crowd now ..."
I think the two of you are in agreement.
thanks for pointing that out AndyK - sorry about the misread Shadowgm
"the faceless bureuacracy."
Ronald Reagan An American Life
When I saw Mr. Hunter's son being interviewed, I got the impression that he might be blind. Did anyone else feel that way? I'm just curious.
faceless federal bureaucrats while this man's family prepares to bury him.
Sounds like a rather heartless bastard, which probably means he will be re-elected. Just as long as he doesn't have to mess up his hair do.
Excellent point! Governor Goodhair is such an ass. He is so well-liked that someone torched the Governor's mansion, and they have never been caught!
This man's blood is all over Glenn Beck's hands.
before you blame Beck. Or is that too inconvenient for you?
http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/
daughter is now making media appearances, calling her father, Joe Stack, domestic terrorist - a hero. what can you say to this kind of insanity? this girl thinks her dad flying a plane into a building full of people working at their jobs because he couldn't pay his taxes correctly, was heroic. nuts.
SOCIALIST NORWAY! as was said earlier, you can't get more ironic than that.
had flown planes into government buildings in protest of segregation...OR, in this case if the pilot had been black, Hispanic, or Asian and killed a white vet...No, then it would be minorities not wanting to pay their fair share and wanting a free ride. Hero? Please.
...this guy's problem was with the IRS? I mean, had he gotten caught playing fast and loose with reported income...or taking deductions for his wife's makeovers...or was he just pissed about having to pay anything at all?
By the way, as had been mentioned before - particularly with the SFBs being labeled a hero - Homeland Security needs to 'profile' every damn tea-baggin SOB with a pilot's license.
a comprehensive analysis of this guy's history of IRS problems. It would be interesting to read. But you, like others, seem to want to fit him into your preconceived ideologoical comfort zone by labelling him a tea bagger. He seemed to be more interested in playing bass guitar than "tea-baggin" and his wife was a victim, too.
Bainbridge22 earlier posted a link to an excellent analysis of him
in Slate. I linked it again a few posts above this.
find it yerself.
commentator.
I don't know about him being a tea bagger but many on the far right are trying to canonize him.
His problems started in 80's when he got hooked up with an anti-tax group that convinced him paying taxes was unconstitutional.
tried to portray him as a right wing nut until a bunch of C&L commenters complained that his rant sounded just like posts to C&L. Dave pulled back his initial reaction. That is why I recommend the Slate article. The guy had severe mental problems, but is difficult to pigeonhole ideologically.
Is that right or left?
He seemed like a pretty bright guy who took some bad advice and things rolled down hill from there.
Good luck with that.
suffering from suicidal delusion a defense of the right wing fringe, or an effort to get you to understand something through something other than a convenient prisim?
suicidal delusion? I think it started with him thinking he could not pay taxes and get away with it.
Is that not right wing fringe?
.
I missed it. Repost it and I will.
http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/
are making leaps in judgement. I'm with you on that. I also read his manifesto and saw a lot of parallels in my life. You see, we earned our livings in much the same way. Outsourcing has been particularly brutal in the computer business and I also considered relocating to Austin.
Anyway, what do you want to debate now that I have read the article. Nothing I have read leads me to believe he was involved with the tea-baggers, but I still say it was involvement with anti-tax fringe groupls that started his downward spiral.
This murderer fits a recent angry Right Winger profile...especially since Obama took office.
I am not saying he was a winger of any type.
I don't believe anyone is "defending the right wing fringe today". We are simply talking about Stack and Hunter. We have no idea Stack's political leanings as far as I can tell. Remember insanity is not limited to one party or the other.
"isolation" felt by the deranged is actually increased by hanging around with people whom share your extreme views, and view everything in the light of the shared attraction (hint, hint...not aimed at pop.)
....didn't have to pay taxes, he shouldn't have to.
Not paying taxes for a couple years probably earns extra scrutiny.
Problems just escalated from there.
the 1986 change in tax policy specifically casting his job title into tax limbo which really did screw him and others like him (see Microsoft), and it was all simply a result of a political deal?
I'm not taking anyone's side here, but he really was not a typical anti-tax protester.
stark is/was a terrorist, that much is clear. he was a bad guy who injured or killed people and left his wife.
but i still want to have explained to me the implications of the 1986 tax code that he cites as the source of his problems.
Will he be charged with premeditated murder?
You may want to edit and tone down your comment. Please don't count me in your "Real Party" goers.
doesn't have a pilots licence. Crazy talk.
a stiff bowl of Wheaties!
I really do. My message is only that anti-tax fringe groups can be hazardous to your health, including mental.
I'm not sure how anyone puts Stack in the tea bagging catagory. To me he just sounds like a guy who was upset to the point of making a horrible decision and as a result of the horrible decision, something horrible happened. Connecting him to the tea baggers seems to me, as of now, to be a stretch.
But sounds like he fell in with a taxes are uncontitutional fring in the 80's and it was all down hill from there.
Beware the fringes.
It's not just the tax angle. I also see a certain tea-baggy hypocrisy in Stack's gripes about the closures of Air Force bases around LA in the early '90s. Smells a lot like "Keep the government's filthy mitts off of my Medicare!"
That is, he didn't seem to like paying taxes, but he sure as hell didn't mind being paid by taxpayers.
politicians in bed with big corporations, corporate collusion against small entrepeneurs, etc. If you would like to see his manifesto analyzed in terms of other terrorists, I have linked to one such effort. I can't vouch for its accuracy but it is interesting.
especially those that get involved in politics, should be taxed.
I do not see that as a reason not to pay my taxes. I've had my run ins with the IRS. They are not sympathetic reasonable people.
He bitched about corporations after the tax code was changed to put an end to small private contractors bilking the public of billions of tax dollars a year; later he tried to have his home declared a church.
He was trying to game the system, and he got busted. I'd have sympathy for him if he'd simply been a protester whose hands were absolutely clean, but his hands were filthy.
I started this in response to another of your comments Andy, but it is just as appropriate here.
You and others feel he was a right winger. I say his views are not that easy to pigeonhole. You then say " I'd have sympathy for him if he'd simply been a protester whose hands were absolutely clean."
I have no sympathy for him at all beyond that which I accord to people who are mentally ill, which I believe he was. I have no sympathy for his act, whether it was motivated by pure views I abhor or share.
In your earlier comment you quoted Stack. I have not seen these words of his discussed much: "when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die." Hard to call that a right wing statement. Nor a left wing statement
though a conservative could try.
This post started out about Vernon Hunter. It has degenrated, as I predicted but with my active participation, into a discussion of Stark. Shame.
...his sentiments were easy to pigeonhole all right. But I agree that he was neither a tea-bagger nor a socialist. He was a narcissist.
His rant had no particular political ideology. He was an equal opportunity whiner, willing to grab whatever he could from any and every side of the aisle.
It was a classic narcissistic meltdown, blaming everyone and every thing around him except himself for the problems he created.
Enron. The bank bailouts. George Bush. The Catholic Church. GM. Unions. The IRS. The dot-com crash. The end of the Cold War.
I'm surprised he didn't throw in illegal immigration, global warming and the obesity epidemic while he was at it. Probably would have if it had occurred to him.
No. Not a teabagger. Not a commie. Not libertarian. Not a conservative. Not a liberal. Just a murderer.
Well put.
... You're erroneously dismissing a core ideology of the Tea-Party/teabagger movement.
"Enron[Corporations]. The bank bailouts. George Bush[Neo-cons]. The Catholic Church[Illuminati]. GM. Unions[Card Check]. The IRS. The dot-com crash. The end of the Cold War.
I'm surprised he didn't throw in illegal immigration, global warming"
I will put him in that group and or segment of that group with surety. It's the self-pity, unalienable rights, I'm being persecuted mantra, justified by imagination as apposed too true justice.
And Mr. Hunter bravely served, for my right to say so. ♥
...Ayn Rand's protagonists? Yeah, ricky, I'm saying it: Stack went Galt.
That's what's known as throwing off the scent, ricky.
Did it bother you that I answered your point then noted the original purpose of the post?
I always enjoy having a good conversation with you.
I have a problem with a guy who can afford to buy a plane who then somehow sees fit to relate himself to the poor. Doubly so when I consider the part of his rant in support of the MIC.
You are saying Stark was throwing off the scent with his statement. My error.
Thought I should say that before I headed to work. Keep 'em honest while I'm gone. ;D
Yes, he complained that the evil IRS was making him pay his taxes and then he complained that the evil government canceled a bunch of Cold War spending in the late 80s/early 90s.
Just exactly who did Mr. Stack imagine was paying for all those projects?
It wasn't elves.
I am glad we finally have a face to go with the news that Stack killed someone during his disgusting act.
Hopefully now the handful of people here who've made excuses for Stack will stop now, and stop being apologists for domestic terrorism and murder.
didn't it?
and dot their i's and making sure the family was notified.
but it took a few days for "official" confirmation. They just officially stated Stark was the pilot today.
RIP Mr. Hunter.
nuts come in all shapes and forms, just as assumptions do.
just profile him and keep a watch for others about to snap (not that it ever helps).
he chose to take human lives as his sacrifice for "whatever", fill in the blank.
it makes me sad to think about mr. hunter and his surviving family.
So I see this website has descended into the rhetoric and labeled this an act of terrorism. I am astonished at how eager the plebes in the so called progressive community are to distance themselves from the motivations that Joe Stark had for doing what he did, and to cower (since there seems to be a contest for who can call Stark a coward the most times)to the conventional fearmongering wisdom by labeling this a "terrorist act". Quoting some universal definition that someone read on wikipedia seems to convey some type of convenient cover for those who understand exactly what sets off individuals like Mr. Stark, yet do not have the courage to acknowledge that these events are in many ways PERPETRATED by the consequences of the actions of our corrupted governmnet. It makes me sick. Stark is a symptom, not a problem. He is not a terrorist. We all know who the terrorists in this world really are. We are bing manipulated by the very forces we object to in order to keep from attractin attention. It is cowardly, and it stinks. I really am considering abandoning this site over this.
...Stark is a murderer. He's not a symptom of any problem, though there are many real problems in this world.
He had a plane and a home and he owed the IRS because he couldn't register as a church.
And it is terrorism. It's just not jihad. Terrorism is the targeting of non-combatants in an effort to terrorize someone (the public, a government) into changing their policies. That's what it is.
If he was motivated by personal revenge or was insane, that wouldn't be terrorism. But in his own rant, he said he hoped his action would wake up "zombie America" and that we'd rise up and throw off the shackles of form 1040 SE. And then he targeted and killed innocent people to make that point.
That's terrorism. Same as Timothy McVeigh, same as Osama bin Laden, same as the Red Army Faction. All very different flavors, yes. But all terrorism.
I agree, however, that it's not rightwing or leftwing terrorism. It's crybaby narcissist terrorism with equal portions of left right complaints used as a smokescreen.
Tea Party...
Taxed
Enough
Already
?
...whatever they think they are.
PS. That is the challenge we face... IMO
I just noticed you may have thought the RE: was input by me... it is the default title.
excuses for Stack. Here come the murder apologists...
Who is apologizing for "murder" and excusing Stack?
types who were essentially doing it themselves in an earlier thread.
to Trantorian. Nuff said.
. . . and read nothing whatsoever about apologizing for murder. I did read a bit about the hypocrisy of labeling Stark a terrorist in light of the violence perpetrated by those in power in America on a daily basis.
Stark killed one innocent in the past week. Yesterday they announced 12 more innocents killed by Obama's war in Afghanistan.
Talk about an apologist for murder.