Afghanistan Reaches New Milestone: Now The Longest Military Action In US History
Frankly, I refuse to call this a "war". This is and always has been an occupation. Terminology aside, this is not exactly something worth celebrating, but I do think it's time to re-think Afghanistan:
Three months after 9/11, every major Taliban city in Afghanistan had fallen — first Mazar-i-Sharif, then Kabul, finally Kandahar. Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar were on the run. It looked as if the war was over, and the Americans and their Afghan allies had won.
Butch Ivie, then a school administrator in Winfield, Ala., remembers, "We thought we'd soon have it tied up in a neat little bag."
But bin Laden and Omar eluded capture. The Taliban regrouped. Today, Kandahar again is up for grabs. And soon, Afghanistan will pass Vietnam as America's longest war.
The Vietnam War's length can be measured in many ways. The formal beginning of U.S. involvement often is dated to Aug. 7, 1964, when Congress passed the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, giving the president a virtual carte blanche to wage war. By the time the last U.S. ground combat troops were withdrawn in March 1973, the war had lasted 103 months.
U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan on Oct. 7, 2001. On June 7, the war will complete its 104th month. President Obama on Thursday reaffirmed his commitment to the war, saying "it is absolutely critical that we dismantle that network of extremists that are willing to attack us."
This longest war is far from America's bloodiest. It has drifted in and out of focus and, for much of its life, been obscured by another war, in Iraq.
I guess we should be grateful for small favors in that relative to other battles, there's been less loss of life, although I'd say it's still 1,800 lives too many.
Former Bush Secretary of State Colin Powell spoke on This Week last week to say that even with the troop increase in Afghanistan, "victory" (however you define that) ultimately was in the hands of the Afghans.
If that's the case, one has to ask why the hell we need to be there for anyway.
BraveNewFilm's ReThink Afghanistan is fundraising to purchase an ad in the Politico (because you know they all read it) asking Congress and the President to pull the troops by December 2011. If you're able, please consider donating to inject some sense into this debate.
and most pointless.
Some stuff you can't make up!
for a trillion dollars, that's why.
Some stuff you can't make up!
If it's anything like a Harry Potter movie
That must mean
We're half-way through it...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
More like Twilight. And you are forced to watch it.
Edit: btw, the second vid or pic doesn't show up for me.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
I like pestering the Twilight fans on Youtube.
They don't know what hit them when I start talking about baitals, calicatzaris, lamias, lilims, strgoi, vrykolokas, sarcomenos, and such phrases about lycanthropy, "Even Christian saints had the power to curse people into animal forms like wolves, "Omnes angeli, boni et Mali, ex virtute naturali habent potestatem transmutandi corpora nostra."
And then I might refer to Johann Goethe's poem Bride of Corinth, Dom Augustin Calmet on the Vampires, Samuel Coleridge Christabel, the Bleeding Nun Vignette from Matthew Lewis's book The Monk, Matthew Lewis's own vampire poem The Brave Alonzo and the Fair Imogene, Dr John Polidori novella The Vampyre, John Stagg's ballad The Vampyre, Dion Boucicault's play the Vampire, James Malcolm Rhymer and Thomas Prescott Prest Varney the Vampire: or The Feast of Blood, Sir Richard Burton King Vikram and the Vampire and other tales of Hindu Devilry, Sheridan Le Fanu's Carmilla, and of course Bram Stoker's Dracula.
And of course one book that really started it all Fantasmagoriana, ou Recueil d'Histoires d'Apparitions de Spectres, Revenans, Fantomes, etc.; traduit de l'allemand, par un Amateur.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Hmmm...maybe they ought to get me to talk to their prisoners.
They'll be climbing the walls in no time...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Bloody hell, i don't know what you are talking about in your post but i'm sure it makes some great trolling.
:D
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
your bookshelves would make very interesting browsing.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Oopsie...I forgot to mention the Empusae
But I was drinking last night...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
has little to do with vampires and more to do with the tenets of the LDS church, right?
As an exMormon, that seems like it would be right up your alley
I have tried to research that.
I recall somewhere in the Pearl of Great Price or the Doctrine and Convenants a description of resurrected souls, which is physical in Mormonism, as everyone looking at the peak of their physical perfection with bronze skin and glowing hair.
Of course to me that sounds more like those who hang out at Venice Beach.
Or Valhalla
The original Vals...like totally...ya know?
Additionally, I'm not sure how official this teaching is, but it's Mormon men who earn immortality from God, Mormon women gain it through their husbands.
Additionally, with marriage in the Temple, which every Mormon shoots for, one is married for eternity.
But from what I heard the Twilight series seems based more on Love At First Bite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsHqujRmSMs
And Mormons, ex or otherwise, don't take anything up their alleys without at least plenty of lubricant...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Here's something interesting, but I wanted to confirm it first:
MORMO (Mormô), a female spectre, with which the Greeks used to frighten little children. (Aristoph. Acharn. 582, Pax, 474.) Mormo was one of the same class of bugbears as Empusa and Lamia.
http://www.theoi.com/Phasma/Empousai.html
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Clashes in west Sudan's Darfur region cost almost 600 lives in May, the highest monthly death toll since peacekeepers were deployed in 2008, according to a UN-African Union document seen by AFP.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
We were prepared to go into Afghanistan before 9/11 even happened. Why are we there? As Helen Thomas asked. To catch Osama bin Laden and the 19 hijackers from Saudi Arabia? You tell me. What is up. And who sent the Anthrax to our key lawmakers before the passage of the Bill of Rights killing "Patriot" Act.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
Dick and Lynne Cheney's favorite employers.
Good points. Not enough people have the memory or ability to connect the key dots from time to time on important stories.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
Al-Jazeera Video: Taliban Rejects Afghan Peace Offer
CNN Video: A Deadly Day For NATO In Afghanistan; Seven Americans Among The Dead
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
38th Parallel (Korea) the longest US military action?
North Korea and South Korea are still technically at war.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
True, but he said "longest US military action?"
I don't know the answer on that, but that's what he said ;)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
They have always been at war.
Hmmm, a 1984 reference?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
of rationalizations as to why we're still there. I could write about the moral justification of correcting past errors. Let's face it the Taliban are the children of the mujaheddin and we created them. I could talk about debts and obligations and commitments. When we leave, if we just bug out, a lot of people who had faith in the Western democracies would be very quickly hung out to dry. I could even couch an argument in progressive rhetoric. If we leave too soon we'll be throwing generations of Afghan women under the Taliban bus. But then someone might want me to explain why we're such good friends with the equally repressive Saudis. It all rings a little hollow. They're going to have to come up with some sort of face saving deal. I'll sign on sight unseen.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
American drone aircraft spying on Afghan women and children in camps doesn't help. So many innocent people have died:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/05/29/...
Do you remember the 1985 National Geographic issue with the Afghan girl on the cover? Her story is worth reading.
"She remembers the moment. The photographer took her picture. She remembers her anger. The man was a stranger ....."
The people of Afghanistan want to be left alone.
They found her you know. She's still alive despite a forced marriage and years of abuse. She still has the eyes though.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Here's an article about her:
http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/pho...
What's your point?
Actually natural gas and oil. The Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline consortium.
From the 1998 Congressional Record.
U.S. INTERESTS IN THE CENTRAL ASIAN REPUBLICS HEARING BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL
RELATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION
FEBRUARY 12, 1998
War in Iraq - Oil
War in Afghanistan - Oil & Natural Gas
Blowout in Gulf - Oil
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Bush and Cheney - Oil
Condoleeza Rice - Oil
PNAC Planning - Oil
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
Today, ten more NATO soldiers were killed in Afghanistan.
It's time to bring our troops home.
...profits
Yup, is it August yet?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
just that the 'lucky ones' are shattered by PSTD and trauma, the others come home in body bags.
years ago. BushCo wanted a war so goddamned bad, they could have sent their friends, family members and cheerleaders over there. Nothing like a bunch of suits looking for oil. The Bush daughters are of age, hell so is Daddy Bush. Go get 'em!
NOBODY 2012
vacuum technology led to steam engines, that led to the internal combustion engine, then drake discovered oil; and then america "became the first country to go to the poorhouse in an automobile", or some such thing.
would that we still had poorhouses, nowadays people just die in the waiting room; pretty sad when some features of dickens england start to seem positively humane.
but then you have the "conspiracy theorists" who claim that the constitution was abrogated with the establishment of the "National Security State", whenever that was; though it seems to have been in vogue some time now.
perhaps the only hope is that we do use up all the oil, in which case one shudders to think of what "they" will come up with next; there is a lot of energy in 44 gallons of crude, and the usa uses 20,000,000 a day.
in any case, it would seem heavy metals will still be in great demand, whether they are used to construct windmills, tanks, or even something as sensible as farming implements.
short term, i would expect the industrial society insanity to continue, until everybody blows everybody up, or the human race runs out of ammunition, or oil, or whatever.....
in Afghanistan, essential due to Canada's ruling but colonial minded elites, who when called upon by their colonial masters, jump up and cry "Ready, aye ready", just as they did at the end of the 19th century, sending young Canadians then to South Africa to fight and die in the Boer War. We never had any reason to go to Afghanistan, except for the demands of George W. Bush, who our elites cowered from. It took all the nerve they had to refuse to send troops to Iraq.
Now I heard from a group of MPs visiting Afghanistan, and saying they would seriously consider extending Canada's military mission there past its scheduled ending in 2011. I was disgusted to hear that.
Fortunately, I was reassured by our top General today that there was no way Canadian combat troops will remain past the 2011 deadline.
until that $100 million dollar base is built. Then a couple of years after it's built, we'll be able to abandon it and leave Afghanistan.
The title of this post refers to a military "action." That seems significant to me.
Why not call this a "war"? Because a legal state of war exists only when Congress passes a resolution to that effect? So what's the difference between a "war" and a "military action"? Essentially nothing, of course—at least as far as blood and treasure are concerned.
Congress keeps authorizing gazillions of dollars to finance the "actions" in Iraq and Afghanistan. Does that constitute a de facto declaration of war? The U.N. resolution can't justify what we're doing (or what other U.N. nations are doing to support us). The original Congressional resolution, based on deceit and manipulation, can't justify what we're doing.
Legally, nothing can justify what we're doing. Morally? I'd say the same. Practically? Again, I'd say the same. I'm open to being talked down.
What's the legal justification for what we're doing?
What's the moral justification?
What's our goal, and how will we know when we've reached it?
What's our exit strategy?
Ideology aside, we've allowed reckless agents, effectively, to cut open an artery in the Gulf of Mexico. And we obviously haven't a clue as to how we can stop the bleeding, correct the damage, and force those responsible to accept accountability.
The same is true in the Middle East. Our nation's life-blood, both literally and economically, is draining into the sand of Afghanistan. Who can tell us how the bleeding will be stopped? Who can tell us, convincingly!, how to stanch the bleeding? heal the wounds? assess and impose accountability?
We've seen how the military/civilian authorities have shrugged at multi-million dollar theft and mismanagement. But at the same time have billed for lost uniform and equipment a soldier who was shot, who was rendered unconscious, whose unit left behind his gear in order to save his life, and who will be permanently damaged by his wound. http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0529/soldier-bill...
Individual soldier? Hammer him! Mega-corporation like Halliburton or Blackwater? Not too big to fail, but too big to be held accountable.
Which really exposes the weak and slack thinking of the managers and politicians who run our MIC.
No matter what a person thinks of the morality of overseas adventures, when they treat the grunts this badly, you know the people at the top are morons.
America the beautiful . NOT.
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
I think this is true of both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think either of them have a rational explanation. I think both invasions were motivated by emotion. During the 1980s, we had unlimited access to both countries. The 90s come and the US gets the shiny boot out of both places. I think some people in high circles were deeply involved in the events that led to the US no longer being welcomed and they were butt-hurt about it. They had bruised egos about losing 2 countries that were so important to us during the 1980s.
I believe in CHANGE. I still think our President can succeed where Bush failed.
While definite start/end dates and even how one defines "war" are open to debate, I think the U.S. wars with the Sioux, Cheyenne, Navajo, Apache, and other lesser known Native American nations were significantly longer. These wars lasted for decades.
it's an invasion.
NOBODY 2012
I doubt we will be leaving Afghanistan in our lifetime. I'm sure they will keep finding reasons for us to stay.
Well, the Dutch will leave in August. There is no replacement yet. Maybe you nice Americans can fill up the gap. It's called Uruzgan, a lovely place to stay and even better for a holiday.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Good for the Dutch. They seem to have learned their lesson when it comes to colonialism. Wish we had leadership that sees this war for what it is and get our troops out.
cant we cut out a few years?
had bush really wanted to win the conflict and help the afghanie people...and capture osama...he could have
he didnt...his goal was to keep us in war and occupation for perpetuity
basically so that no other presidents could enact domestic programs...which would cause the death of the middle class and complete the neo con prophecy
we're winning!
:-|
NOBODY 2012
An old retired fart.
Ask your selves this question! If there was a mandatory draft of ALL 18 yr. old men and women with NO deferments other than for mental and/or physical problems, would we be in Afghanistan ,would we have invaded Iraq and finally would we, as a country, be better off financially? Answers Afghanistan-NO,Iraq-NO,Finances-YES!If there was no draft during the Vietnam war we would still be sending our kids to die in that fucked-up war!
So the Afghan War is our longest war yet. So what? How on earth does that make it "worse than Vietnam"? The war in Indochina cost 58,000 American lives and more than five million Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian lives. This war cost 6,000 American lives and 20,000 Afghan lives including about 13,000 civilian dead, most of which are resulted from Taliban tactics, not coalition mistakes. All this in the same span of time.
The majority of Afghans support the United States and oppose the Taliban. Calling the Taliban and their allies "nationalists" shows the basic ignorance of Islamist ideology and Afghan politics these people have. Rebels have only made cursory use of Afghan pride in their propoghanda and have recieved a lot help from foreigners.
Would liberals stop trying to solve other problems simply because it takes a long time to fix them. Do we stop fighting poverty because it's taking a while to do it right?
Also, I refuse to trust any video that thinks the Cato Institute is a reliable source of information on any topic.
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