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Keith Olbermann delivers another Special Comment on the eve of President Obama's planned speech at West Point Military Academy calling for an increase of troops to Afghanistan.

As the hawks circle around Obama, drowning out any pacifist voice, Keith wonders why someone like Gen. McChrystal is given so much credence, a question that the Obama administration should have spent some of that "dithering" time contemplating.

General McChrystal has doubtless served his country bravely and honorably and at great risk, but to date his lasting legacy will be as the great facilitator of the obscenity that was transmuting the greatest symbol of this nation's true patriotism, of its actual willingness to sacrifice, into a distorted circus fun-house mirror version of such selflessness.

Friendly fire killed Pat Tillman.

Mr. McChrystal killed the truth about Pat Tillman.

And that willingness to stand truth on its head on behalf of "selling" a war -- or the generic idea of America being at war -- to turn a dead hero into a meaningless recruiting poster, should ring essentially relevant right now.

From the very center of a part of our nation that could lie to the public, could lie to his mother, about what really happened to Pat Tillman - from the very man who was at the operational center of that plan - comes the entire series of plans to help us supposedly find the way out of Afghanistan?

We are supposed to believe General McChrystal isn't lying about Afghanistan?

Didn't he blow his credibility by lying, so obviously and so painfully, about Pat Tillman?

Why are we believing the McChrystals?

It's frustrating to me, as someone who sees no shame nor weakness in embracing pacifism and peace as a goal to continually run up against Democrats who are so frightened about being portrayed as weak on defense to be swayed by something so patently nonsensical.

What is our mission now? When can we know we've achieved it? There are less than 100 al Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan. How is this the "good fight"? We have allowed the Taliban inroads into the government, so we cannot fight them without taking on Afghanistan as a state player, which changes our strategy entirely.

Please, President Obama, do not be beholden to campaign promises made a year ago. There is no "winning" in Afghanistan. Ask the Russians. There is no good fight. There is nothing there worth American blood and treasure.

Transcripts below the fold

And finally as promised, a Special Comment on the President's address to the nation tomorrow night on the future of our military presence in Afghanistan.

Mr. President, it now falls to you to be both former Republican Senator George Aiken and the man to whom he spoke, Lyndon Johnson. You must declare victory, and get out.

You should survey the dismal array of options in front of you -- even the orders given out last night -- sort them into the unacceptable, the unsuccessful, and the merely un-palatable, and then put your arm down on the table and wipe the entire assortment of them off your desk -- off this nation's desk -- and into the scrap heap of history.

Unless you are utterly convinced -- willing to bet American lives on it -- that the military understands the clock is running, and that the check is not blank, and that the Pentagon will go to sleep when you tell it to (even though the Pentagon is a bunch of perpetually 12-year old boys desperate to stay up as late as possible by any means necessary) -- get out now.

We are, at present, fighting, in no particular order, the Taliban; a series of sleazy political-slash-military adventurers (not the least of whom is this mountebank election-fixer Karzai); and what National Security Advisor Jones estimated in October was around eight dozen Al-Qaeda in the neighborhood.

But poll after poll, and anecdote after anecdote, of the reality of public opinion inside Afghanistan is that its **residents** believe we are fighting… Afghanistan.

That we, Sir, have become an occupying force.

Yes: if we leave, Afghanistan certainly will have an occupying force, whether it's from Pakistan, or consisting of foreign fighters who will try to ally themselves with the Taliban.

Can you prevent that?

Can you convince the Afghans that you can prevent that?

Can you convince Americans that it is the only way to un-do Bush and Cheney policy catastrophes dating back to Cheney's days as Secretary of Defense in the '90s?

If not, Mr. President... this way lies Vietnam.

If you liked Iraq, you'll love Afghanistan with 35-thousand more troops -- complete with the new wrinkle, straight from the minder-binder lingo of Joseph Heller's Catch-22.

President Obama will be presenting an exit strategy for Afghanistan.

The exit strategy that begins by… entering still further.

Lose to win, sink to swim, escalate to disengage.

And even this disconnect of fundamental logic is predicated on the assumption that once the extra troops go in, when the President says "okay, time for adult swim, Generals, time to get out of the pool and bring the troops with you," that the Pentagon is just going to say "Yeppers."

The Pentagon - often to our eternal relief, but just as often to our eternal regret - is in the War business.

You were right, Mr. President, to slow the process down, once a series of exit strategies was offered to you by men whose power and in some case livelihoods are predicated on making sure all exit strategies, everywhere, forever, don't really result in any service-man or woman actually exiting.

These men are still in the belly of what President Eisenhower so rightly, so prophetically, christened the military-industrial complex.

Now -- and later as the civilian gray eminences with "retired" next to their names, formally lobbying the House and Senate - and informally lobbying the nation through television and the printed word -- to "engage" here, or "serve" there, or "invest" everywhere -- they are, in many cases, just glorified hardware salesmen.

It was political and operational brilliance, Sir, to retain Mr. Bush's last Secretary of Defense Mr. Gates.

It was transitional and bi-partisan insight, Sir, to maintain General Stanley McChrystal as a key leader in the field.

And it was a subtle but powerful reminder -- to the authoritarian minded War-hawks like John McCain, and the blithering idiots like former Governor Palin, of the Civilian authority of the Constitution... it was a picture drawn in crayon for ease of digestion by the Right, to tell our employees at the Pentagon, to take their loaded options and go away and come back with some real ones.

You reminded them, Mr. President, that Mr. Gates works for the people of the United States of America, not the other way around.

You reminded them, Mr. President, that General McChrystal is our employee, not our dictator.

You've reminded them Mr. President.

Now, tonight, remind yourself.

Stanley McChrystal.

General McChrystal has doubtless served his country bravely and honorably and at great risk, but to date his lasting legacy will be as the great facilitator of the obscenity that was transmuting the greatest symbol of this nation's true patriotism, of its actual willingness to sacrifice, into a distorted circus fun-house mirror version of such selflessness.

Friendly fire killed Pat Tillman.

Mr. McChrystal killed the truth about Pat Tillman.

And that willingness to stand truth on its head on behalf of "selling" a war -- or the generic idea of America being at war -- to turn a dead hero into a meaningless recruiting poster, should ring essentially relevant right now.

From the very center of a part of our nation that could lie to the public, could lie to his mother, about what really happened to Pat Tillman - from the very man who was at the operational center of that plan - comes the entire series of plans to help us supposedly find the way out of Afghanistan?

We are supposed to believe General McChrystal isn't lying about Afghanistan?

Didn't he blow his credibility by lying, so obviously and so painfully, about Pat Tillman?

Why are we believing the McChrystals?

Their reasons might sound better than the ones they helped George Bush and Dick Cheney fabricate for Iraq, but surely they are just as transparently oblivious of the forest.

Half of them insist we must stay in Afghanistan out of fear of not repeating Iraq, while the other half, believing Bush failed in Iraq by having too few troops, insist we must stay in Afghanistan out of fear of repeating Iraq.

And they are suddenly sounding frighteningly similar to what the Soviet Generals were telling the Soviet Politicos in the 1980's about Afghanistan.

Sure it's not going well, sure we need to get out, we all see that.

But first let's make sure it's stabilized and then we get out.

The Afghans will be impressed by our commitment and will then take over the cost of policing themselves -- even though the cost would be several times their gross national product.

Just send in those extra troops, just for awhile. Just 350-thousand.

I'm sorry, did I say 350-thousand? I meant 35-thousand. Must be a coffee stain on the paper.

Mr. President, last fall, you were elected.

Not General McChrystal, not Secretary Gates, not another Bushian Drone of a politician. You. On the Change Ticket. On the pitch... that all politicians are not created equal.

And upon arrival you were greeted by a Three Mile Island of an economy, so bad that in the most paranoid recesses of the mind one could wonder if the Republicans didn't plan it that way, to leave you in the position of having to prove the ultimate negative, that you staved off worldwide financial collapse, that if you had not done what you so swiftly did, that this "economic cloudy day" would have otherwise been the "biblical flood of finance."

So, much of the change for which you were elected, Sir, has thus far been understandably, if begrudgingly, tabled, delayed, made more open-ended.

But patience ebbs, Mr. President.

And while the first one thousand key decisions of your presidency were already made about the economy, the first public, easy-to-discern, mouse-or-elephant kind of decision comes tomorrow night at West Point at eight o'clock.

You know this, Mr. President: we cannot afford this war. Nothing makes less sense to our economy than the cost of supply for 35-thousand new troops. Nothing will do more to slow economic recovery. You might as well shoot the revivified auto industry or embrace John Boehner Health Care Reform and Spray-Tan Reimbursement.

You know this, Mr. President: we cannot afford this war. Nothing makes less sense to our status in the world than for us to re-up as occupiers of Afghanistan and for you to look like you were unable to extricate yourself from a Military Chinese finger puzzle left for you by Bush and Cheney and the rest of Halliburton's henchmen.

And most of all, and those of us who have watched these first nine months trust both your judgment and the fact you know this, Mr. President: unless you are exactly right, we cannot afford this war.

For if all else is even, and everything from the opinion of the generals to the opinion of the public is even, we cannot afford to send these troops back into that quagmire for second tours, or thirds, or fourths, or fifths.

We cannot afford this ethically, sir.

The country has, for eight shameful years, forgotten its moral compass and its world purpose.

And here is your chance to reassert that there is, in fact, American Exceptionalism.

We are better. We know when to stop making our troops suffer, in order to make our generals happy.

You, sir, called for change, for the better way, for the safety of our citizens (including the citizens being wasted in war-for-the-sake-of-war), for a reasserting of our moral force.

And we listened.

And now you must listen.

You must listen to… yourself.

Good night, and good luck.



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86 comments
)O(

I say at this point send troops in so the others can rotate home, and then gradually pull the rest into friendly, non-hostile territory, and let people know the Cavalry is still available.

.

"Please, President Obama, do not be beholden to campaign promises made a year ago."

WTF is this? It's immoral to "pretend" this never happened. We have obligations. They're called consequences. I know everyone would like to sweep this under the rug but it's wrong.

It's your "brand" MIC.Washington.Inc. are worried about.

I've often heard "America has never lost a war" (all facts aside). Losing looks bad and makes the next one hard to sell.

as repugs are shameless

...not a solution.

Announce the drawing down of troops, and the scheduled withdrawal.
Just do it, and get this over with.
Otherwise, you will go down in history as the President who could have, who should have, but didn't. Even when you know withdrawing is the right thing to do.

You beat me to the punch - tomorrow at this time, he owns this war and the blood shed will be on his hands. So much for "CHANGE".

Bullshit! He owned it at noon 1/20/09. And he inherited a mess. He has to do it. If he had said he was leaving w/o trying to get AQ, he never would have been elected.

This is not a freaking movie. this is real and thanks to bush, cheney, rove, rummy, and all the other criminals he has NO choice.

Time for folk to grow up.

Because in all of that he didn't mention Pakistan once, but talked about Boehner's spray-tan.

Hopefully he's not the best we've got.

LOL for attempts to establish false dichotomies!!!

He mentioned Pakistan. It was near the 1:30 mark and he entertained the notion that they may go into Afghanistan in our absence.

and in a dismissive way. And Boehner's tan shouldn't be anywhere in there.

I stand by my assertion that Olbermann is overly selective and a gasbag, just like O'Reilly.

why let facts and reality get in the way of your talking point, right?

but any thoughtful discussion that doesn't work the problem back from the desired answer would have had a whole hell of lot more about Pakistan. Olbermann oversimplifies, tells his niche what they want to hear, and leaves out relevant info. O'Reilly.

I have never had anyone satisfactorily explain to me how our presence in Afghanistan in any way stabilizes Pakistan.

Could you explain why you think Pakistan must factor into this decision?

And my complaint is that Olbermann didn't help us with that. He should've.

MountainMan23's comments sound about right. I do know that Pakistan is extremely unstable, heavily armed, and that that won't get any better any time soon.

Whether or not we should stay or go I can't say, but I can say that getting info from Olbermann is all heat and no light.

Clearly, if Olbermann didn't play up Pakistan, it's because he didn't think Pakistan should factor into our decision of whether or not to escalate in Afghanistan.

But you think he should. But when I asked you why, you said you don't have any answers to that.

I get that Pakistan is yet another scary clusterfuck and we've ostensibly been at war with them in all but word for at least the last year.

But I still don't understand why that should be factored into our strategy in Afghanistan. A covert war with another sovereign nation doesn't seem like a good reason to occupy and be at war with Afghsnistan, does it?

plays a role, so Pakistan should've been there WAY more than once. In order for me to take Olbermann serious he'd have to address the issue from all angles and use facts and logic to make his argument. He doesn't do that because it's not his style or business model.

Moyers he ain't.

Sadly I think it's obvious Olbermann reads from a script 90% of the time. I do believe he agrees with what he reads and is a real Progressive though.

It's like Obama said: everybody on these shows have their territory and you know going in what they're going to say on any given topic. And Olbermann's Special Comments are a one-man cover band.

Is it really that hard to give me a fresh perspective backed up by an expert like Juan Cole? I like Eugene Robinson, but, c'mon...

And Boehner's Tan?!/1 Seriously?!?1

That Olbermann relies too heavily on a very select list of "experts"--Richard Wolffe is my personal pet peeve.

But again, a Special Comment is by definition commentary, which one ought to expect to be a one man event.

As hard as that is to imagine. There are some things that he finds in keeping with progressive values, but not everything. He has stated in interviews that he is not a member of any registered party and did not vote (he might have in 2008, but not before that).

And he is reading pre-written text. The transcripts I provided are sent to me from his teleprompter feed operator. That's how television works. No one is improvising their commentary.

He does write 100% of his Special Comments and about 90% of his regular news reports.

I also think that some of this has to be in managing expectations. A Special Comment is by definition not a hard-hitting expose or investigative journalism. They are Olbermann's op-eds, which he keeps for issues that particularly move him. As Special Comments, there should be no expectation of anything other than Olbermann's opinion.

I check in 3-4 times a day and I'll keep doing it. But Olbermann's show, particularly his Special Comments, is just a bunch of angry fluff, IMO, and I thought I'd point out why I think that.

Have a good night.

SCRIPT!!!!!

Olbermann is a bit of a showman, even carny at times.

Careful analysis is not his strong point.

Some of his Special Commentaries have been spot-on because he has tapped into and articulated a rage that many of us feel, like about the travesty of American Health Care.

This Special Commentary was not his best.

And who else does it on TV?

How is Keith Olbermann going to help with this situation? His job, which he does wonderfully, is to report as to what is happening and give supporting facts about his report.
The fact is that Obama must end this war or it indeed will become his war just as Viet Nam became Johnson's war.
This would not even be discussed if good ol' dubya had kept the troops in Afghanistan in the first place to capture BinLaden as he stated was his mission...and then stated he didn't give a shit about BinLaden. Our own Senate has determined that BinLaden was "within our grasp" just before good ol' dubya yanked the troops out of Afghanistan and attacked a country, that he decided needed to be attacked 3 days after being sworn in, that didn't have anything to do with the U.S. being attacked.
So fuck you on trying to blame Olbermann for the U.S. still being in Afghanistan.

According to all the various analysts I have heard on NPR being interviewed, "Al Queda" are entrenched in Pakistan now, NOT Afghanistan.

We all need to be schooled very clearly about WHY Obama/the MIC truly want to entrench the United States more deeply into Afghanistan when the enemy is in Pakistan.

This looks like "nation building" to me. Something we should not be doing and clearly cannot afford.

Gibbs said the other day that we would have a military presence in Afghanistan for at least another eight YEARS. In eight years we will see if there is a pipeline being built. Then we will know "WHY WE FIGHT"?

Under International Law the US and NATO are legally engaged militarily in Afghanistan but NOT in Pakistan.

The border between the two nations splits the Tribal Homeland of the Pashtuns right down the middle. It was drawn by the British as part of normal imperialist divide-and-conquer strategy. But under the present circumstances the position of the border gives the Pashtun militants a strategic advantage. They can hole up in Pakistan and *legally* the US and NATO cannot chase them.

None of the major international players - US, NATO, Russia, China - wants the Islamic fundamentalists to take control in Pakistan.

What to do?

Wage a covert war with drones launched from Afghanistan against the Pashtun militants in Pakistan.

And funnel "military aid" money to the Pakistani government so they can hire Xe (aka BlackWater) for covert operations in Pakistan.

The Taliban's support is heaviest amongst the Pashtun people, and the Pashtun people straddle the Af-Pak border. Thye Pashtuns don't really acknowledge that border- think of the Kurds.

The Taliban, while generally seen as a religious movement is, in no small way, a Pashtun nationalist movement. That's why, I think, that the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan never gave up the fight. It wasn't about religion so much- the Northern Alliance after all, were all founding members of the Islamic State of Afghanistan along with the Taliban. The Taliban took control of Kabul in '96 and renamed the country the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance, as I'm sure you recall, never stopped fighting against the Emirate/Taliban/ethnic Pashtuns.

That goes dangerously into nation building.

We've allowed the Taliban inroads into the government of Afghanistan. How does fighting the Pashtun to marginalize the Taliban actually help us?

We're also conflating several entities to justify our presence. It's not al Qaeda, it's the Taliban, but not really the Taliban, we need to defeat (how? win over? annihilate?) the Pashtun. But really, we need to worry about Pakistan. Meanwhile, they're focusing on their other border with India.

I don't see any sense to it.

Could you explain why you think Pakistan must factor into this decision?

Because if the Taliban helps split those Pashtun regions from Pakistan, there's a legitimate fear that Pakistan would go in to chaos. So now you've got all of those Pakistani nukes controlled by who-knows-how-many factions. Who would launch a nuclear strike into Indian controlled Kashmir or Punjab (remember, most of the Pakistani military leadership are Punjabi)? How would India respond, whether nukes were launched or not? How would China- which fought India in 1962 over territory in northern India- respond to any of it? Right here we're talking about the countries with the first and second largest populations in the world.

I'm sure you've read On the Beach Nicole. Do you recall how, in that book, the Earth became toxic? It was because China, India and Pakistan- none of which had nukes when the book was published in 1957- started lobbing nukes at each other.

The US and NATO are propping up the Afghan government that Bush installed.

In that sense the "nation" has already been "built" - by Bush.

But if that central govt falls Afghanistan will again fall into chaos - that's certain.

And the Afghanis themselves really have no sense of national unity. Never have.

And ALL international players - US, Europe, Russia, China - want a central government in Afghanistan so they can make deals with it. Global corporatization.

If the militant Pashtuns are allowed to maintain their base in Pakistan they can destabilize the Afghan govt.

Therefore - attack the Pushtun militants in Pakistan to preserve the central govt in Afghanistan.

That's the logic.

The US is waging a not very secret covert war in Pakistan and is using the war zone in Afghanistan as a staging area. This is a very important point and Olbermann did not mention it.

proven wrong (and you even admitted so) to substantiate your claim that O'reilly and Olbermann are somewhat opposite equivalents (a dichotomy).

I have no clue how you can with a straight face accept the falsehood of your claims as it being somehow "non important" in regards to the validity of your accusations against Olbermann.

Me thinks you had an agenda, facts and reality be damned.

Pakistan won't go into Afghanistan, they are tight with, even supported the creation of, the Taliban as both are anti India. India is who Pakistan fears above all else. I would bet most of our military aid ends up on the India border rather than fighting in the northwest tribal areas. Pakistan does the bare minimum to keep the military aid coming so it can be used to protect them from India. They would much prefer to be fighting over Kashmir.

How much more will McCain become unaware of.

How much more will Cheney become unaware of.

How much more will Republicans become unaware of.

How much more will they become unaware of, in their quest to control and manipulate the democratic process.

How much more will they become unaware of, in their quest to control and manipulate scientific results.

How much more will they become unaware of, in their quest to control and manipulate political discourse.

Well, what they don't know can't can hurt us.

Ignorance is isn't bliss.

the financial elite want war/occupation it's that simple. i understand Blackwater/CIA are after taliban in pakistan and there's big concern about the pakistan nukes.....i just feel ultimately it's about capitalist imperialism.

That's right. There is already a war being waged in Pakistan using foreign (US) sub-contractors paid for by Pakistan. Who, I would suppose, is then reimbursed by the US.

as a voting block the financial elite are a small fraction but as a lobbying block i guess they are immortal and invincible but not entirely invincible...

Evidently one of the reasons for the decision to continue the war in Afghanistan is to continue to use it as a staging area for the covert (but not at all secret) war the US is waging in Pakistan.

Do not get upset little C&L children. This is how the game is played.
You vote, you get screwed, you vote again.

You have done it your entire adult lives!

Why are you pissed?

John Amato is a Democrat!

What does John's political affiliation have to do with anything?

ARE OUT EARNING THEIR PAY!

"Finishing the job in Afghanistan" (whatever that means) is the only campaign promise Obama made that I disagreed with.

Ignorance is strength.

Not!

My opinion of any commentator (of any stripe) who says "Declare victory and get out" drops a notch (or seven). It is as unlikely to happen as in any war in the last 30 years, where the previous whiny imbecile said it. This is gainsaying, not thought.

Obama has my support on this issue whatever he does (compared with losing me on just about everything else due to tepid leadership) because both options (leave / stay) suck.

... but that one of the alternatives sucks infinitively more than the other.

The devil, as they say, it is in the details.

.

both options (leave / stay) suck.

I honestly don't see how our leaving sucks for the Afghanis. It's their country, they need to sort it out. We didn't "break" it, it's been broken since before the Soviets (remember them?) invaded. THEY were killing each other. THEY allowed the Taliban to reign.

If they want a civil war, who are we to stop them? Unless we're going to march into every country where they're mean to each other we have no business being there, particularly after we shut down the "training camps" that were "responsible" for 9/11.

???????????

...like I'm watching Lyndon Johnson all over again?

Bill Moyers had it right, I think: reinstate the draft, and this will be over in a very short time frame.

a very short time frame? Like Vietnam??

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not in favor of this escalation. Our occupation needs to come to a swift end. Watching friends (and strangers) do repeated deployments, though, I believe that Moyers was correct: many people in this country seem to have the view that Afghanistan (and Iraq, for that matter) doesn't affect them...that it can simply go on because soldiers have volunteered and "they knew what they were getting into when they enlisted."

I don't know what it's going to take to get people to say "stop." I would've thought that time had come quite a while ago, but no. I'm not in favor of a draft. I'm in favor of a large segment of our populace saying, "Time to shut the damn thing down." We've wasted enough young life fighting over something undefined and undefinable. If threatening a draft wouldn't make us do that, I'm not sure anything would.

Interesting report on Russian assistance in maintaining Soviet made military hardware still in use by Afghan government military agencies.

RussiaToday (YouTube) - Pimp my raid: Russia to tech-update NATO in Afghan mission?

Obama continues Bush's stupid mistake.

...when asked about Osama at a press conference, Bush groused that bin Laden is "just a person who's now been marginalized" and insisted: "I just don't spend that much time on him, to be honest with you."

Gobama? No.

have to do with this?

You know he's not in Afghanistan, right? You know that there is a neglible presence of al Qaeda in Afghanistan?

I'm not happy with Obama's choice to escalate in Afghanistan, but yours is an odd non sequitur.

I could be wrong but I believe Obama used the bin Ladin boogie man in his campaign last year as a reason to stay in Afghanistan. Even though I hated McCain and wanted him to win as the first black president, I could not vote for him for his stance on staying in Afghanistan. It was strange for him to campaign on that as someone on the antiwar left. Being a hawk and leftwing don't mix, imo.

Those "targeted" drone killings are not very well "targeted"....(entire funeral processions killed etc.).

Hillary Clinton got blasted by Pakistani women a few weeks ago when she was there. The Pakistani public have HAD it with the drone killings. And so have I.

Of course I've "had it" with lots of other stuff too.

Oh boy....

Who is the enemy? Who are we "fighting"? Factions fighting for power in a tribal-oriented country? Which ones are the "right" ones? Why are these totally inane questions about troop numbers and cost and Pakistan and corruption and McChrystal's integrity being asked...we don't have an enemy to fight. Am I the only one who wants to know who our enemy is?

...it's all about the money, guys

And your whole political system with every four years getting exited about the next president ellections like they were a super bowl game and then the next guy falling in the sticking jungle of commitions and lobbyists and no matter what he promissed, he - even someone with good intentions - finds himself in a no-win/no-win situation, because what Eisenhower warned you about is already a long established reallity...

Don't you understand, that having a two party system is like having a one party system?

Because the system IS ONE - and there are two bunches of rich guys who only care to get or to keep the seats, that are being controlled by the system.

And with the millitary and oil industrial complexes controlling the system, it is starting to look like a well disguised dictatorship, which - like all dictatorships - hides its real nature behind nice slogans like patriotism, constitution, from the people, for the people, land of the... and oh, here come tears in the eyes of the red neck middle class brainless America, which doesn´t realise that it is acctually being robbed out of every important right, except the famout one to bear arms and kill each other - and others. What a pity!

Ya, you gotta keep them seperated. Or they'll screw us all.

All goals except for capturing Ben Laden was done in the first two weeks. The Taliban and Al Queda were defeated as an army. The Taliban were punished. They fight as a guerrilla force. The Afghans will have to figure out their destiny. Leave special ops, a small arm force and some air support. No more patrols. Don't worry about controlling all of the territory, just the important items. Send everybody else home. Whenever the Taliban form a large enough force strike them. Use special ops to harass them and hunt them down. Make them feel you can fight them for a thousand years by hitting them just once in a while. Make it feel one sided by being able to hit them while they can't hit you.

Alan Grayson on The Ed Show discussing Obama's Afghanistan decision.

(YouTube) Rep. Alan Grayson: President Obama is Leaving His Base

I saw that live today. I'd support a Grayson/Sanders ticket in 2012.

if someone were to check my past posts they would see I nailed it.

I knew exactly what he was about to do.

send troops until the reelection year then promise to bring them home

it is a political move dont want to look soft on terrorism but try and appease the imperialists which is most americans

we are an imperialist nation and have been for a very long time

ike warned us who would run the gov if we did not detune the industrial military complex as a nation.

americans can you not see that we are an imperialist people and nation?

720 military bases around the world, mega military, always involved in a war, mega size industrial military complex, mega intel complex, corp conrolled congress and white house, wake up wake up we are imperialists and until we figure that out nothing will change.

it is not them it is us. politicans are a reflection of us.

look into a mirror americans we are imperialists with many americans out and out war mongers.

most americans are dumbed down enough to believe we are fighting these wars to protect them from terrorists.

imperialism depends on a dumbed down patroit nationalistic nation of people. ie remember germany they cheered in the streets for hitler. ie they loved him.

he brought them hope for a better tomorrow.

It's economic imperialism. Both left and right support it. Too bad unregulated capitalism is a proven failure. What is happening with the oil and pipe line is greed and a parasitical need to survive, morality is ignored at our peril. We need a better system and it probably won't be born here in the states. The limelight has passed.

A call to join marchers from throughout the world:
From New Zealand to southern Argentina
the World March
comes through L.A. on Wednesday, December 2!
The World March is covering 35 countries, 4 continents and 60 days after setting out from New Zealand. Now it's our turn to express ourselves and take a stand: for the abolition of nuclear weapons, for an end to war as a means of resolving conflict, and for a new global consciousness based on nonviolence & the rejection of all forms of violence.

For information about the World March: http://www.theworldmarch.org, www.worldmarchusa.net

Let’s show the international peace communities the best of L.A. Join us for as many of these activities on Wednesday, December 2 as you can:
For public transportation to any of these locations, go to www.metro.net.
10 AM: Press Conference at City Hall, 200 N. Spring St. Los Angeles, CA 90012
12 PM: Greeting by the Tongva Nation (the indigenous people of what’s now L.A.)
at Farmlab (across from the cornfields) 1745 N. Spring St, Unit 4, Los Angeles, CA 90012 http://farmlab.org/2006/12/what-is-farmlab_11... (see “map” link for driving directions); alsohttp://notacornfield.com/events/underspring.html Potluck afterwards.
6 PM: March down Wilshire Boulevard starting at MacArthur Park (bring flashlights and any flags, banners, placards that express peace.)
7 PM: Peace Concert at Immanuel Presbyterian Church, 3300 Wilshire Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90010-1757

The demands:
• nuclear disarmament at a global level
• the immediate withdrawal of invading troops from occupied territories
• the progressive and proportional reduction of conventional weapons
• the signing of non-aggression treaties between countries
• the renunciation by governments of the use of war as a means to resolve conflicts

Gregory Sotir
http://www.militaryfreeschools.org
310-467-8053

We will be able to triumph over terrorism not by waging war on it, but through a conscious, fearless way of life. If there is a choice between absolute safety and freedom, then freedom must always prevail.
--Salman Rushdie, August 2006

People of the World gotta RISE UP and shake off the bonds of corporate imperialism!

Yes folks, if you read the US military's own counterinsurgency manual

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24fd.pdf

You will find that even with the additional troops we will be only 1.3 MILLION troops short of the MINIMUM necessary to control the situation.

Based on a population of 28.4 million and a standard 1:20 ratio, the US would need 1.4 MILLION troops to be successful. The only way to get the necessary troops would be to have a draft and print a lot more fake greenbacks.

Since we can not win and there is no political will to sacrifice tens of thousands of our soldiers as cannon fodder, it is long past time to pull out.

As to what will happen when we leave, I can only make some educated guesses but in the end, I just don't care what happens to the Afghans or Pakistanis. They do not have the capability to invade the US nor do they have the missile technology to nuke us and even if they do set off one nuke in the US using some other deliver mechanism, it will be suicidal because we will just nuke the whole country.

Ron Paul may be a nutter about some things, but pulling our forces back into the US makes a lot of sense.

I have never heard a more correct statement from anyone.

We cannot afford this war monitarily, militarily, ethically or morally.

Sadly, what we are going to hear Tuesday is that Obama is going to send 30,000 to 35,000 more troops to Afghanistan to rid that country of the Taliban and to provide security for the Afghan government and security for the Afghans. Nothing could me futher from the truth.

This is Obamas last chance to enforce his campaign promise of "change we can believe in" and to end these wars. Sadly, he will not do that and our soldiers will continue to die for the military industrial complex and our great grandchildren will continue to bear the monitary cost of this war. The army will be broken and the U.S. will have no reserve units in the event of a national tragedy.

Mr. President I beg you to do your duty as commander in chief and end these useless and unwinnable wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

He NEVER promised to end the war in Afghanistan!

And to Nicole's 'go ahead and break this promise, it's okay...but if you break a promise I agree with, they'll be even more hell to pay.'

Wow.

Calling Ike , calling Ike , come in Ike , please , it's probabaly too late but Obama and the whores in DC need to hear your speech warning about the uncontrollable monster ... the military industrial complex ( and the pentagon ). Afghanistan is Vietnam all over again , Obama and the crooks and criminals in DC are well aware of it too .

I do not know why we have not seen a bigger reaction against what I think is going to be the Obama administration's biggest mistake. It is frustrating -- I'm not sure what we have to do in this country to get wars stopped. For some reason we have a tradition of "national security" trumping democracy -- how do we tell these guys that we don't want their "protection?" All of the arguments that I have seen for extending the war really translate to "we would have a bad news cycle if we lost." Guess what -- after eight years fighting one of the poorest nations in the world we have already lost whatever mojo we thought we had before this adventure.

.

Fido's tail says: "Woof!"

.

I live long enough to see the big nuke show. Lets face it the Great USA is getting what it deserves. Disneyland is finished and Oprah is history. I am happy the bankers and the politicians stole it all and got away with it. Now the rest of you sit down, relax, and watch the big show if you can still afford cable. Mission Accomplished you betcha.

)O(

Why should we expect countries to stand up

When we keep giving them the comfy chair

And foot massages?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY

Continuing in Afghanistan is insanity! I really think that the republican/conservative side of America is stark raving mad. How else can you explain it?
Here we are in bad economic times created by the people that made the most money from it.
They are enslaving people without any of the responsibility of ownership.
How do you explain people willing to vote for someone that would destroy the country simply because he said he was like them?
Every republican voter I have ever spoken to says they vote GOP because they hate abortion.
They don't give a damn about how many people get killed, killing people that did nothing to us.
It is a truely amazing site and the only explenation I can come up with for the current situation is that republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness. I think the whole party was designed to appeal to the weak minded and the insane!

Could anyone _really_ have stopped the civil war from happening? Does Buchanan really deserve to be called a top contender for worst president ever?

But does the inevitability of the Middle Eastern wars compare? Does history _really_ give Obama no choice but to become LBJ II commanding Vietnam II? Terrible, terrible moment of weakness -- especially ironic from a charismatic who claimed he had a road map for "change" but is looking hollower by the day.

Unfortunately, hardly Obama's first disappointing decision. More of a pattern that can't be denied unless one swallowed an intellectually fatal dose of the "change we can believe in" Kool-Aid.

Buchanan was not only unwilling to take a stand regarding secession, he saw it as a legal issue where both sides were right – and was therefore disinterested. At a time when the country needed a powerful voice and leadership, Buchannan bitched about confrontation and settled on issues that should not have been in question (i.e. Kansas/Lecompton). He split his party, and paved the way for the splitting of the country. He was the wrong guy to be in office – at the wrong time. It is the consequence of his lack of leadership that puts him at the top of “Worst Ever”.

“If you are as happy in entering the White House as I shall feel on returning to Wheatland, you are a happy man indeed.” – Buchannan to Lincoln.

I'm getting the impression that Obama is an appeaser - er, I mean a politician - who listens too much to his critics and formulates his plans and actions to assuage the ones who are talking the loudest in the media. The problem is that those people are all Republicans. If they get the impression that they are affecting presidential decisions, they will only shout louder.

They should stop sending solicitations for money to the Dems. Send them instead to the corporations and to the RePublicans! Obama is just plain DUMB!!!

Get over yourselves. Americans don't give a f*** about the Afghan people, admit it. You never liked them, or anyone other than yourselves, before and you certainly like them less now.

Admit that you screwed up royally, apologize to the Afghan people, give them money for the damages you inflicted on them and promise the world you will never do it again.

Americans are a narcissistic lot, and as such, they cannot apologize or admit failure. Just look at Bush & Cheney! Unfortunately, Obama is following in lock-step!

The only reason given by Dubya to go into Afghanistan was that that was where OBL was. The Taliban were hosting OBL and al-Queda in Afghanistan, and when requested by Dubya for the Taliban to turn OBL over to the USA, their ONLY requirement was that evidence be submitted that OBL was responsible for 9/11. Of course, Dubya and Cheney hadn't yet fabricated that evidence, through water-boarding & extreme renditions, so the USA couldn't respond, except by military force. The run-up to the invasion of Iraq distracted Dubya and Rummy from going after OBL properly, OBL got away, and then the story changed to "Osama bin Laden doesn't matter any more!" Of course not. Afghanistan merely represented terrain through which the Caspian Basin oil & natural gas pipelines would be built, versus seizing control of the entire oil reserves of Iraq -- a much bigger bone for the Petroleum Industrial Complex to "chew on". No surprise there. (Each Imperialist milestone taken in a well-defined, top secret Cheney Energy Commission game plan -- well, that and the PNAC play-book.)

What Ed Shultz, Alan Grayson, Keith Olbermann, and all the rest of the radical peacenik liberal progressive rabble-rousers fail to understand is that the fight Obama has adopted against the Taliban is not the real issue here. Corporate Profits and American Exceptionalism / Imperialism is THE ISSUE. After all, President Barack Hussein Obama is a Neo-Liberal (Corporatist) Democrat - certainly NOT a liberal progressive.

We are in (have always been in) Afghanistan to establish a USA-centric pro-Corporatist puppet government in order to build a (magically munificent) OIL & N.GAS pipeline from the Caspian Basin to the ocean. You cannot expect American OIL & ENERGY SERVICES companies to forgo the opportunity to exploit $11 Trillion (2006 est.) USD worth of energy resources do you? (Please think of the poor, barely scraping by Corporations, for crying out loud.) As Dubya once said, "... the USA isn't getting into the business of nation-building ...". Don'cha know that Ken Lay and ENRON sacrificed themselves for the rest of America's Petroleum Industrial Complex?

Besides, the business of war, and our Military Industrial Complex needs a perpetual conflict in order to remain relevant (and in the black) after the end of the Cold War. War can, and must be, a growth industry - think of all the destitute Defense Contractors - how would They ever get by without WAR? The USA certainly doesn't need to think about rebuilding infrastructure here at home, let alone a National Defense Imperative like Universal Healthcare - not when there are Private (Corporate) Profits to be made overseas at Public (Socialized) Risk.

Anyway, the Permanent Military Bases in Iraq need to be augmented with Permanent Military Bases in Afghanistan, if only to further our 30+ year conflict with IRAN over their Denial of the USA's Eminent Domain Prerogative over their (OUR) natural resources under their soil. Never mind that IRAN's population of 75 Million are waiting to greet the American Liberators with rose petals at our feet and flowers in the barrels of our guns, don'cha know?

This is all a matter of God's will - America's Manifest Destiny. Either we win this struggle outright (Double-Plus-Good), or else we unleash a world-wide conflagration of war, and the End Times. See, it's a win-win-win situation. What could possibly go wrong?

/snark

The USA, in collaboration with our NATO allies, should be planning the exit from Afghanistan on the same 2011 timetable as Iraq - presuming, of course, that our Military Industrial Complex will actually allow President Obama to do so. (The last President to stand up to the M.I.C. Imperialist Adventure Game-Plan met with foul play in Dallas, Texas.)

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