10 Republican Lies for Tax Day

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The truth may set you free, but not if you're a Republican and the subject is taxes. After all, 95% of American families as promised received a tax cut from the Obama stimulus package. And while three-quarters of Americans support President Obama's proposal to roll back the Bush tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to their Clinton-era levels, it turns out that affluent voters, too, chose Barack Obama over John McCain. Making matters worse, a Gallup poll Monday revealed that Americans' "views of income taxes among most positive since 1956."

So as their furious followers head off to their April 15th orgy of tea-bagging, the leadership of the GOP and its amen corner in the right-wing media have instead turned to tall tales on taxes.

Here, then, are 10 Republican Tax Day lies:

  1. President Obama will raise taxes on small businesses.
  2. The estate tax devastates small businesses and family farms.
  3. 40% of Americans pay no taxes.
  4. Tax cuts always increase revenue.
  5. The GOP is the party of fiscal discipline.
  6. Ronald Reagan was the greatest tax cutter of all time.
  7. FDR caused the Great Depression, or at least made it worse.
  8. Obama's cap-and-trade plan will cost each American family $3,100 a year.
  9. Obama's tax proposals will undermine charitable giving.
  10. The rich pay too much in taxes already.

For the details behind each of the GOP's Tax Day deceits, continue reading.

Lie#1: President Obama will raise taxes on small businesses.

John McCain introduced this fraud along with Joe the Plumber during the 2008 campaign. McCain proclaimed Obama's plan to restore 1990's tax rates for taxpayers making over $250,000 meant "the small businesses that we're talking about would receive an increase in their taxes right now." In February, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) regurgitated the long-debunked talking point:

"I don't think raising taxes is a great idea, and when our good friends on the other side of the aisle say raising the taxes on the wealthy, what they are really talking about is small business."

Of course, they're not talking about small business. As CNN concluded in October, "fewer than 2% of small business owners would pay more under Obama's plan." But in case there was any doubt about the Republicans' deception on the point, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center quickly put it to rest:

Out of 34.7 million filers with business income on Schedules C, E or F, 479,000 filers fall into the top two brackets, according to an analysis of projected 2009 filings by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

The other 34.3 million - or 98.6% - would be unaffected by Obama's proposed rate hike.

Lie #2: The estate tax devastates small businesses and family farms.

This Republican scam over the so-called "death tax" is as bogus now as it was when President Bush first perpetrated it eight years ago. The House GOP budget, fittingly unveiled by Rep. Paul Ryan on April Fool's Day, would eliminate the estate tax altogether. While Nevada Senator John Ensign recently griped, "It destroys a lot of small businesses and a lot of family farms and ranches in America," House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) groused:

"People who aren't wealthy, who may have built up value in land over generations and many family farms find themselves in situations where they've got to sell the farm in order the pay the taxes."

But as the Washington Post explained, under President Obama budget, 99.76% of estates would pay no taxes whatsoever:

The estate tax is scheduled to disappear in 2010, only to be resurrected the following year at its 2001 level, when it applied only to estates worth over $2 million per couple at a rate of 55 percent. In fact, no one expects it to return to that level -- although letting it do so would be a far more rational response to the current crisis than the Lincoln-Kyl approach. Rather, President Obama has proposed holding the tax at this year's level: an exemption of $7 million per couple, with a 45 percent rate for amounts beyond that; this would cost $484 billion over 10 years. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) has endorsed this solution, with indexing for inflation. This would hardly be punitive. At that level, 99.76 percent of estates would incur no tax whatsoever. Those who owe would pay, on average, $2.25 million less than they would have paid at the 2001 exemption level. Why in the world should these folks get more of a tax cut?

Why? Because even in a time of national economic calamity, the Republican Party remains committed to dramatically shifting the tax burden away from the wealthiest Americans. (And unfortunately, Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) and nine other Democrats are aiding and abetting that transfer by supporting a lower tax rate of 35% for estates starting at $10 million per couple. The price tag? $250 billion.)

Last week, the Tax Policy Center quantified just how few family farms or small businesses are actually impacted by the estate tax proposals under consideration:

We estimate that under the Obama proposal, 100 family farms and businesses would owe tax. (We define such estates as those where farm or business assets are valued at under $5 million and comprise the majority of estate assets.) The Lincoln-Kyl proposal would cut the number to 40. Even under current law, fewer than 2,700 family farms and businesses would owe tax.

Lie #3: 40% of Americans pay no taxes.

This canard, too, has been in circulation since last summer. Parroting right-wing papers including the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times and Richard Mellon Scaife's Pittsburgh Tribune Review, the McCain campaign argued, "Obama raises taxes on seniors, hard working families to give 'welfare' to those who pay none." While Sean Hannity and Rudy Giuliani echoed the "welfare" charge in January, on Monday, former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer kept up the drum beat, deeming Obama's middle class tax cuts a "moral problem" when "50% of the country gets benefits without paying for them."

Alas, they do pay for them. As FactCheck among others noted, Republican conveniently ignore sales, excise and most of all, payroll taxes. Starting with the first dollar they earn, virtually all American workers pay the 6.2% Social Security tax (on income up to $97,000) and another 1.45% for Medicare. An analysis by the Tax Policy Center concluded, "three quarters of filers pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes."

That millions of hard working American families pay no income taxes is due in large measure to the Earned Income Tax Credit. Created in 1975, the EITC "a refundable federal income tax credit for low-income working individuals and families" that results in a tax refund to those who claim and qualify for the credit when the EITC exceeds the amount of taxes owed. As the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities detailed in 2005, the EITC has not only been extremely successful in reducing poverty, it has enjoyed broad bipartisan support. None other than Ronald Reagan called it, "the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress."

As a new Gallup poll released today suggests, the American people seem to agree. In the wake of the new Obama tax cuts, Gallup found, "more say low-income Americans paying fair share of taxes."

Lie #4: Tax cuts always increase revenue

Thanks to supply-side snake oil salesman Arthur Laffer and his magical Laffer Curve, conservatives have been peddling this myth since the age of Reagan. Tax cuts, which GOP doctrine now claims is the universal cure-all for surpluses and deficits, male pattern baldness and erectile dysfunction, are at the center of every Republican economic program. As John McCain put it during the campaign, "tax cuts, starting with Kennedy, as we all know, increase revenues." And in February, Texas Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison offered the purest statement of Arthur Laffer's fantasy:

"Every major tax cut we've had in history has created more revenue."

As it turns out, not so much. The claim, as ThinkProgress neatly summed it up, is empirically and historically false:

The notion that cutting taxes somehow - magically - increases government revenues is a myth that won't die. "The claim that tax cuts pay for themselves...is contradicted by the historical record," reported the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which showed that revenues grew twice as fast in the 1990s, when taxes were raised, than in the 1980s, when taxes were cut. FactCheck.org called a claim like Hutchison's "highly misleading" and stated the obvious fact that "we can't have both lower taxes and fatter government coffers."

Lie #5: The GOP is the party of fiscal discipline.

Back in February, AP reporter and John McCain donut server Liz Sidoti wrote of beaten and battered Republicans trying to find their way back from the political wilderness in a piece titled, "GOP tries to restore image of fiscal discipline."

Of course, that would constitute a return to a time that never was. Far from the deficit hawks of Republican legend, the modern Republican Party from Reagan forward devastated the U.S. treasury, leaving mounting debt and hemorrhaging red ink for as far as the eye can see. As it turns out, U.S. national debt tripled under Ronald Reagan, only to double again under George W. Bush. As this eye-popping chart shows, under recent Republican presidents the debt exploded as a percentage of GDP, interrupted only by the all-too-brief fiscal sanity of the Clinton years.

"Reagan," Dick Cheney once famously declared, "proved that deficits don't matter." Apparently, that rule only applies when a Republican is sitting in the Oval Office

Lie #6: Ronald Reagan was the greatest tax cutter of all time.

Through thick and thin, this hagiography of Ronald Reagan is central to Republican identity. But as Steve Benen rightly noted, it is President Obama whose stimulus plan delivered the largest two-year tax cut in history. And as it turns out, what Saint Ronnie giveth, he also taketh away.

As predicted, Reagan's massive $749 billion supply-side tax cuts in 1981 quickly produced even more massive annual budget deficits. Combined with his rapid increase in defense spending, Reagan delivered not the balanced budgets he promised, but record-settings deficits. Even his OMB alchemist David Stockman could not obscure the disaster with his famous "rosy scenarios."

Ultimately, Reagan was forced to raise taxes twice to avert financial catastrophe (a fact John McCain learned the hard way from Tom Brokaw last October). By the time he left office in 1989, Ronald Reagan nonetheless more than equaled the entire debt burden produced by the previous 200 years of American history.

Lie #7: FDR caused the Great Depression, or at least made it worse.

Desperate to change their miserable present, Republicans are traveling back in time to rewrite the past. Despite the easily debunked claim (for example, here and here), Republican leaders including John McCain and Mitch McConnell still insist FDR made the Great Depression worse. Others, such as Rep. Steve Austria (R-OH) went so far as to blame FDR's programs launched four years after the 1929 stock market crash for causing it in the first place:

"When (President Franklin) Roosevelt did this, he put our country into a Great Depression," Austria said. "He tried to borrow and spend, he tried to use the Keynesian approach, and our country ended up in a Great Depression. That's just history."

Of course, that's not history. As Jonathan Chait documented in his devastating demolition of conservative propagandist Amity Schlaes' revisionist attack on the New Deal, FDR slashed unemployment by more than half and largely restored industrial production and GDP growth even before the onset of World War II. Only when Roosevelt wavered in the face of conservative pressure in 1937 did his New Deal temporarily falter.

Lie #8. Obama's cap-and-trade plan will cost each American family $3,100 a year.

Having failed to either block President Obama's middle class tax cuts or to successfully demagogue his proposals for upper income and estate taxes, the Republican leadership turned to a new scare tactic. John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and at least 17 other Congressional Republicans falsely claimed that Obama's proposed $650 billion cap-and-trade system constitutes a $3,100 a year tax on every American family. As Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) put it:

"The Democratic budget is proposing a national energy tax which according to studies at MIT could pose a $3,128 burden on every working family in America."

But as MIT professor and co-author of the study Assessment of U.S. Cap-and-Trade Proposals John Reilly pointed out, the research "has been misrepresented in recent press releases distributed by the National Republican Congressional Committee." As he wrote in a letter to John Boehner:

"The press release claims our report estimates an average cost per family of a carbon cap and trade program that would meet targets now being discussed in Congress to be over $3,000, but that is nearly 10 times the correct estimate which is approximately $340. [...] Our Report 160 shows that the costs on lower and middle income households can be completely offset by returning allowance revenue to these households."

For his part, Boehner responded by insisting he would stand by his discredited talking point. As they show time and again, the utter falsehood of a statement is no barrier to Republicans repeating it.

Lie #9. Obama's tax proposals will undermine charitable giving.

In his budget, President Obama has proposed raising $318 billion over the next decade by trimming wealthier taxpayers' deductions for charitable giving to 28% from its current 35%. Predictably, Republicans (joined by some Democrats) forecast an apocalypse for donations to charities. As John Boehner ominously warned:

"It will also deliver a sharp blow to charities at a time when they are hurting during the economic downturn."

But as Bloomberg and The Chronicle of Philanthropy each reported, Obama's proposal for 2011 would likely have little to no impact on charitable giving. As Bloomberg noted:

Not necessarily, say tax and philanthropy experts. They say altruistic or religious motives outweigh tax-shelter considerations among such donors, and cite previous limitations placed on deductions for high earners that they say haven't hurt donations.

Among those previous limitations, as OMB director Peter Orszag among others recalled, was the same upper income 28% deduction during Ronald Reagan's first term. As Orszag told reporters on February 26th, the record shows that "what drives charitable contributions is overall economic growth."

Ironically, what might have a more serious impact on charitable giving is Republican plans to scrap the estate tax. As then CBO head and later chief McCain economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin wrote in a 2004 study by the agency:

Furthermore, the estate tax provides an incentive to make charitable contributions during life. The paper finds that increasing the amount exempted from the estate tax from $675,000 to either $2 million or $3.5 million would reduce charitable giving by less than 3 percent. However, repealing the tax would have a larger impact, decreasing donations to charity by 6 percent to 12 percent.

Lie #10: The rich pay too much in taxes already.

While 60% of Americans in recent Gallup polls believe upper-income people are "paying too little" in taxes, it is an article of faith among Republicans that the reverse is true.

In one variant of this argument, Arthur Laffer claims Barack Obama will have to raise taxes on lower and middle income Americans because "it cannot be done at the high end because those people can get away from it." That assessment echoes George W. Bush, who similarly argued in 2004, "The really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway." (They are right in one sense; thanks to the GOP's gutting of the IRS in the 1990's, by 2007 the amount of federal revenue lost to fraud and unpaid taxes catapulted to $300 billion.)

Leave it to Bush's former flunkie Ari Fleischer to make even more comical Tax Week plea on behalf of the nation's bedraggled wealthy. The top 10% of taxpayers, Fleischer argued, are "supporting virtually everyone and everything" and "their burden keeps getting heavier." As he put it:

"It's also what's called redistribution of income, and it is getting out of hand."

Oh, it's gotten out of hand all right, just not in the direction Fleischer claims.

As the Center for American Progress noted, the Bush tax cuts delivered a third of their total benefits to the wealthiest 1% of Americans. And to be sure, their payday was staggering. As the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities detailed, by 2007 millionaires on average pocketed $120,000 from the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. Those in the top 1% stashed an extra $45,000 a year. As a result, millionaires saw their after-tax incomes rise by 7.6%, while the gains for the middle quintile and bottom 20% of Americans were a paltry 2.3% and 0.4%, respectively. (Another CBPP study demonstrated that the Bush tax cuts accounted for half of the mushrooming deficits during his tenure in the White House.)

And as the New York Times revealed in 2006, the 2003 Bush dividend and capital gains tax cuts offered almost nothing to taxpayers earning below $100,000 a year. Instead, those windfalls reduced taxes "on incomes of more than $10 million by an average of about $500,000." As the Times revealed in a jaw-dropping chart, "the top 2 percent of taxpayers, those making more than $200,000, received more than 70% of the increased tax savings from those cuts in investment income." So it should come as no surprise that the income share of the 400 richest Americans doubled over the past decade.

There is, of course, one final GOP meta-myth for Tax Day. Despite their best efforts to portray Republicans as the best economic stewards for America, the record clearly shows that the stock market and the economy over all almost always do better under Democratic presidents.

(This piece also appears at Perrspectives.)



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90 comments

Terrific post, Jon. This should be framed and/or laminated and put on a card for every Progressive to carry with him/her for use in wingnut encounters. Good job.

close encounters with the wingnut kind. You wouldn't get your laminated card outta your pocket before they went all second amendment on you. Besides, Governor Perry might have you deported to the US as an undesireable alien.

... but I'm around Texas wingnuts on a daily (and sometimes nightly) basis. Usually I keep a low profile because, as a history teacher for a community college, I'm in a position to pass on a few truths amidst the propaganda and would hate to jeopardize that. One of the reasons I rarely if ever write a letter to the editor of our conservatively-dominated Dallas Morning News -- doesn't pay to put your name out for retaliation (this is one state where cinder blocks found their way through front windows of folks with Obama signs on their front yards).

Perry, though, is digging a hole for himself in the selfsame manner as the Fox Fanatix -- the more he refuses to accept much-needed stimulus money, or stresses the legality of (wrongly; showing his dire need for a history lesson) Texas secession from the US, the easier he is to openly refute. Still, this is Tejas, kindred state to Utah and Alaska. It's an uphill battle.

As someone who was forced to live on welfare for two years when my kids were little after I had kicked out my lazy ex husband (conservative, sexist idiot mind you), I still chafe whenever the Republicans roll out the welfare queen model of hatred. Not only did such demonization keep me in a horrendously abusive marriage during the Reagan years (when he started the whole "welfare queen" and "Gawd Damn the Unwed Whores campaign"), it also helped to fuel hatred against me and my children when this old rotten dead horse was brought out again for political gain during the '94 election.

And to educate those who think that for one minute I sat on my ass during the time that I raked in a big fat $7,000 a year, I went to school, volunteered and also raised three children that today are self supporting, emotionally healthy, mature adults -- because I was able to be home for them when they needed me most. Might I also add, that thanks to provisions in old Ronnie's 1984 Welfare Act, nearly every dime that my ex bothered to pay in child support went back to the feds as "repayment" for AFDC.

Unbeknownst to me until after I took my ex to court for non-payment and the state absconded every dime of the $4,000 arrearage that would have substantially helped my children, my kids were expected to pay the federal government back for being poor.

So they essentially paid taxes -- poor taxes, before they even hit junior high. So f**k those who say poor people don't pay.

Oftentimes I hope there is a hell, because I know its demographic would be mostly Republican.

My mom went through what you went through with four of us. after twice on the cheese line, she went to school and got a job and made sure I was on the path to college. God bless her and you. :<[)

about you. They reveal you are two very reasonable persons and therefore obviously not republicans (or psuedoliberals that will eventually go the Savage way).

We all go thru periods in our lives in which we need help. Not Kleptocrates of course, but real, american people, do need help some of the time, and the hate, revulsion, blaming, shaming that the general 'culture'(?) does to normal people should really be expressed toward the Kleptocrates, like AIG, GOLDMAN-SACHS, CITIBANK, and ALL the other Kleptocrates like them.

Wow

katenh This is news hat should get out large!

I knew there were problems in the Reagan years but this is a prime example that should be told on msm and across the net!
thanks

It's a good little book seperating the myths and facts of the Reagan years.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/1THE_REAGAN_YEA...

It also tells how people still supported Reagan as they starved and froze to death

This is a great and much needed post. I did want to add -- tossing all modesty to the wind -- that anyone wishing to know more about the myths about Ronald Reagan and taxes should read my book, "Tear Down This Myth: How the Reagan Legacy Has Distorted Our Politics and Haunts Our Future." Not only does it show that Reagan repeatedly raised taxes after his initial cut in 1981, but that middle-class Americans had a higher tax burden (thanks to payroll taxes) when the Gipper left office than when he came in.

but the people you need to reach are over at Fox, and they're hopelessly lost in the (false, white) American Dream.

Maybe if you made it into a graphic novel, they could better understand it.

Of course, Reagan would have to be depicted wearing a leather speedo and a cape. ;-)

Anything a repug says.

as well, Thank-U Jon√

those 1000 GOP radio stations are essential for establishing this crap.

when will dems do something about this monopoly that will do the groundwork for all GOP obstructionism?

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service. Off topic, flamebait. PS: It's 'speech'-Sitemonitor]

and start asking the real tough questions. Like
1. How can small business owners afford health care for their workers.

2. If we don't pay taxes how does the average child get a good education?

3. What happens when we don't have enough money in the budget for basic services like fire and police protection as well as snow plowing in the cold climates. What happens when the rich person's house starts on fire?

4. What happens to the poor?

5. What happens to the things we cherish in our cities like the zoos and the museums?

7. Who pays for the elderly?

8. Who pays for the legislative bodies to be in session?

9. Who pays for the red states?

10. Who pays for the red states' pork projects?

Who pays for the BILLIONS or Trillions going to Blue States? AIG is where? Citibank is where? The Auto Companies are where?

for the Red States as most of those states have large proportions of lower income, lesser educated elderly people or those living on some form of assistance (disability income, SSI).

The people who worked for AIG, Citibank, the auto companies, yes, live in Blue States.

The people who benefited from the bailouts live in various places, usually changing with the weather -- or where they can safely hide from court action to seize their assets.

Spare us such foolishness.

altered states.

we all pay. many of auto suppliers are in various states there's plenty of banking in north carolina and south dakota. check out the high school graduation rates for "red" states. also look at the crime levels. what was it the #1 porn user state is utah. just some trivia.

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service. Off topic, flamebait-Sitemonitor]

Although our nation has virtually always had taxes, the founding fathers weren't stupid enough to form the Gov without having a way to pay for it.

Native Indians,Blacks and poor whites from Europe and else where

'just wanted to add my thanks for this post.

By the way, I heard that ass, Tucker Carlson, on Nancy Skinner's progressive talk radio show the other day refer to George W. as a liberal!

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service. Off topic, flamebait-Sitemonitor]

Nice job. Robert Reich and DDay also had good posts on taxes today.

and his trickle down economics. Let them eat cake. I remember those years. I remember watching the news as the wealthy dress in furs and jewels and designer clothing literally stepping over the poor in the streets. The Republican's remember the time as utopia. I remember it as dysfunctional and just plain ugly.

Trickle down worked fine in the 90s. Venture Capital > Dot Coms > Jobs. In fact Clinton even removed money from the bottom with welfare reform.

c'mon, you really aren't sitting there believing that the dot.com boom actually produced real, lasting employment are you?

As I recall, the "angel investors" of the dot.com bubble were partly duped by false non-starter, non existent companies and the entire bubble was created by -- gasp--- the media and the Great IPO Sensation that turned into nothing but bust.

Where might I ask, are those "jobs" now?

It did trickle down. Gravity works.

is the epitomy of an illustration of bozos.

in our nations's capital. Is it FOX pledge week?

Post!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-...
the republican party is trying so hard to dilute/minimize the BUSH legacy. BUSH received a surplus
and he was NOT handed a recession. the recession officially started on his watch. he handed the obama
a recession that has been magnifide by the financial crisis/bailouts. right and left lawmakers/economists
say we need to act quickly/BOLD to rebound. like president obama said he did NOT get ginned up and want to spend.he was handed the TARP from paulson/BUSH. remember BUSH did NOT even include the expense of the war(s) in the budget numbers. BUSH and company let the country go to hell, all in the name of profit/free market/Darwinian Capitalism. they have widened the economic gap to dangerous levels. they have reduced safety nets. obama is trying to strengthen a broken democracy as wallStreet snickers.

A Recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. Clintons economy began to slow in April 2000 with the Tech Crash. His last quarter Q4 2000 was negative growth. The 1st quarter of 2001 was negative growth. Recession was declared March 2001 . Bush was in office 5 weeks. Now if you are a dishonest bot you will call it a Bush recession.

it's a BUSH recession period. refer to the National Bureau of Economic Research site.

Sorry, can't get on the Obama high that everyone seems to be on. I don't have any faith in him at all. Summers/Geither still selling the same kool-aide - 'Capitolism is the only way', that is just as nuts as the PUKIE tea-parties. O-bought-ma got vetted by Rahm Emmanuel, the DLC (who elected THEM?), the 'Business Friendly' democratic-corporate, party. That's why Hillary wasn't believable, either. O-bought-ma is just a TOOL of the Kleptocracy.

Very well-dissected article on the GOP tax myths!

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

1) Obama has already raised Taxes on the poorest Americans with his April 1st Massive Cigarette Tax . Only 9% of those making 90K or more smoke. The vast majority of smokers are poor.
2) I was just informed that the $18 dollars tax break which we saw in our paychecks is per FAMILY not per taxpayer. Only one per household so If your spouse also works you will OWE the $18 a week at the end of the year.

3) Most small businesses are single owner operated businesses like an Avon Lady or Amway business. The small businesses that actually hire Americans will see tax increases. Yes the local pizza shop and the local convenience store and the plumber who has 3 vans and 6 workers and the small general contractor who has 4 men. These will see Obama tax increases.
4) GOP Wants to Shift the burden of Taxes away from the wealthy? At least wealthy republicans pay taxes unlike the parade of tax cheating clowns Obama has offered as Nominees.

Your rebuttal does not. Are we supposed to go on your say so?

If you had a job you would know.

is that you don't have sources for your claims, and that I should believe you because I saw it on the internet by a guy who signed up 5 hours ago and has posted here 3 times.

And that because I ask you for sources, I must not have a job.

Do you actually need a source to know on April 1st Obama implemented a massive tobacco tax?

What is the nexus between having a job and being aware of an increased tax on tobacco products?

.

about the tobacco tax burden on the on the poor and middle, it is just like the gas and auto license/pollution check tax, but where you are wrong is that any of these should be paid on a sliding income scale which the Pukes are against.

Same goes for speeding tickets, etc. if the poor man at 30k/yr get s a $300 speeding ticket, the guy who makes 300k/yr should get a $3000 speeding ticket IMO

your source for #2 was "I just heard..."

#3 is "Most small businesses yadda yadda...These will see Obama tax increases." source for the claim? You sourced the yadda yadda part kind of (you made up the Amway/Avon shit), but the article you cite says nothing about President Obama's alleged tax increases

#4 is specious, just based on the behaviour of the most recent administration, prior to the Obama admin, and on the present day behaviour of the clowns you support. I'd say prove it, but you can't and you won't.

Inc Magazine
More small businesses were started in 2005 than were closed, resulting in an estimated 5.99 million firms with employees and 19.86 million sole proprietorships.
http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200612/sba.html

25% of small businesses hire people. Only 25%. The rest are AMWAY or AVON people or the Stanley Steamer man etc. The ones that actually HIRE people will see a TAX HIKE. The author is being a bit dishonest.

I don't know what kind of small business that is, but most small business owners, who employ people, don't have anywhere near that much taxable income.

How much must small businesses earn before being affected by the tax increase?

More small tattoo parlors have opened since the right began stoking fears that Obama would take away the right to bare arms.

how many are open that started in 2005? that would be of interest.

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service. Off topic, flamebait-Sitemonitor]

cigarettes/tobacco have cost TAX payers millions/billions of dollars. there has been direct/indirect cost associated with healthCare conditions. we all know healthCare insurance is more costly for smokers. many people don't have and haven't had healthCare insurance but they may use the healthCare system. when unable to pay those cost shift to TAX payers. many in the v.a. healthCare system over the years have/do smoke. that burden is on the TAX payer. as you pointed out the tobacco tax is on the poor who can't afford healthCaare insurance. if you want to talk "tax cheats" i encourage you to investigate
UBS and the cayman islands. over $100 billion dollars per year in TAX revenue has been kept from this country by corporations/financial institutions to hide profits from taxation.

that shows smokers are less of a burden because they are less likely to spend their later years drooling at the nursing home for extended periods. Saw that on Raw Story the other day.

i don't agree. i don't believe they can account for all indirect exposure and people that quit. they have denied secondhand smoke for a long time. many people are on organ support some call life support for 6-12 months. you don't have to be alive long yet ill, to rack up a big bill.

Miss Kitty asked for above to another poster. Source please.
On another comment page I posted 2 studies which show that you are wrong. You said you would try to come up with studies that prove those wrong. Have you found any yet?

no

haven't had time. but answer below about veterans that smoke. people without health ins. and people exposed to second hand smoke. also people that smoke and how that affects a condition they may suffer from. smoking may prolong the healing process. longer healing process.....out of work longer and/or more healthCare needed...equals more cost. when i have time i will get on medscape.

the poor are the smokers. they often don't have healthCare insurance. for illnesses that are caused by smoking tobacco but don't have a direct cause to death cost TAX payers also. if they're ill and use the system and can't pay their healthCare bill that cost is shifted to TAX payers. it's very possible their illness may be directly caused by smoking but it's also possible they may have an illness they may have reduced/improved quicker if NOT smoking. more healthcare/longer illness= more cost.people NOT smoking as a rule heal/improve quicker....less healthCare,less off work=less cost

And as the studies show, the decreased lifespan of smokers more than makes up for the increased health care cost during their life. And Not smoking as a rule leads to a longer life with higher health costs due to the aging process.

this is why politics/governance has turned to culture issues. it's difficult to deny this information. people will lie and accept deception from their culture club so NOT to be an outcast. there guy BUSH/(R)congress gave TAX cuts to the wealthy that cost this country. they passed an expensive medicare plan D bill that was understated in cost. these people lost their way a long time ago. BUSH signed everything that came across his desk when it came to spending. he left obama with a huge budget deficit and people have the gall to criticize a guy who has been in office 90 days or so. i guess he has (D) by his name so it must be wrong...he's NOT one of them......it's ridiculous. these tea baggers could have gotten angry at wallStreet.
i would have enjoyed watching fox spin that.

1993 Bill Gates was worth 5 Billion. After 8 years of Clinton he was worth 90 Billion. After Bush he was worth 40 Billion. Buffet went from 5 to 40 Billion under Clinton. Paul Allen too. Most of the rich got MUCH Richer in the Clinton years More than under Bush.

And as the New York Times revealed in 2006, the 2003 Bush dividend and capital gains tax cuts offered almost nothing to taxpayers earning below $100,000 a year. Instead, those windfalls reduced taxes "on incomes of more than $10 million by an average of about $500,000." As the Times revealed in a jaw-dropping chart, "the top 2 percent of taxpayers, those making more than $200,000, received more than 70% of the increased tax savings from those cuts in investment income." So it should come as no surprise that the income share of the 400 richest Americans doubled over the past decade.

to read this, having heard these...terminological inexactitudes...spouted off by everyone I know my whole life. Keep it up, and don't be surprised if you've got a convert! ;)

Cause that's a dope ring if I ever saw one!

It's Boneher & The Teabaggers!!

.....Please, someone explain to me, why we have different percentages for people to pay taxes? Why should one person be required to pay 15%, 25%, 28%, etc.....and other people paying a different percentage? Just because they can afford it??? Give me something better than that.

It doesn't make sense to me. Flat tax rate across the board would be the easy solution to this tax issue that no one can fully understand today.

Progressive tax rates reflect the fact that people who benefit more from government should pay more. Who for instance needs police to protect their property? A millionaire or a bag lady with a shopping cart full of junk?

Another example: a factory owner has an average 100 semi trucks arrive at his loading bays daily, 60 bringing raw materials in, 40 taking finished goods to market. Are you telling me that he should pay the same amount to maintain the roads as one of his workers who takes the bus in every day?

Who for instance needs police more? Well most millionaires live in upscale low crime neighborhoods, quite a few of which are gated communities with their own private security force. Where most low income people live in higher crime rate areas. Who needs the police more?

And you perhaps have a valid argument for higher business taxes, but what about online companies that ship goods through the US postal service? They are actually paying for the infrastructure used do they still deserve higher tax rates?

And for the aforementioned factory owner yes his business may be using the roads more, so like I said you might have a valid point there. But how does he personally? If you can show me the man that drives two cars at once on a regular basis I'll be amazed. So why should his personal income be taxed at a higher level?

President Teddy Roosevelt made the case in 1906 when he argued in favor of continuing the inheritance tax.

"The man of great wealth owes a particular obligation to the state because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."

I would personally like to see the inheritance tax restructured to 0% on the first $1,000,000 and 99% after that. A million dollars can buy you a pretty nice home and a very good education. Not a bad point to start out from, and a significant competitive advantage over most people.

The only really valid argument for capitalism is that it encourages excellence through competition. I would submit to you that large inheritances only encourage arrogance, laziness and a sense of entitlement. Or perhaps you could point out the great accomplishments of George W. Bush, a silver-spooner from the get-go? Or maybe the innovative genius exemplified by Paris Hilton?

Welfare programs tend to breed the following; content, laziness, crime, drugs, etc……don’t get me wrong, there are people that need social programs, but some people live off these programs and are satisfied with their life. There is really no difference between a silver spoon and social welfare spoon except where the money is coming from to support his/her “accepted life”. It’s up to each individual to do everything possible to better their situation regardless of their starting point economically. Capitalism gives people this opportunity, Socialism for the lack of a better word, doesn’t.

your on to something. corporate welfare does much the same: crime, drugs,content
and maybe laziness. corporations receive plenty of subsides and defer taxation onto the general public. when you take a closer look at TAX havens that's keeping large amounts of TAX revenue from this country. "cheap labor" is subsidized schools,prisons and healthCare .also this demographic can't afford(by design) healthCare ins./auto. ins. so the cost is a NET shift to TAX payer. capitalism has designed it's own sophisticated
welfare program. essentially we pay more TAXes then people understand because others/some don't.

Recently I had a hot debate with a Democrat (I'm a Republican) about the tax issue. My view as a business owner, anytime corporations, small businesses, etc... are taxed at a high rate….It isn't the business “funding” the tax, it's the consumer. It may eat into the profits, but ultimately the consumer pays. Now for anyone that is saying their "personal taxes" are decreasing with the Obama plan, ultimately means they are not purchasing anything thru out that tax year or they are making less money as the previous year.

With the Obama plan, most people will end up paying more in taxes, regardless how the Democrats want to spin it. It’s just different avenue, instead of just raising taxes upfront on your income tax.

I WISH Obama was a Socialist! I am so sick of you this latest right-wing meme! The word "Communism" lost its punch? Look around. Anywhere in the world your unregulated Capitalism is implemented you get economic collapse! It only you dumb bastards 20 years to topple Iceland with your failed, dead ideology! That's what your ilk wants to do here and you won't be happy until you have brought us back to a world of serfs and lords! That’s the REAL Republican agenda. I LIKE my Socialist Police Department, Fire Department and VA! I like that we have a public education system and that I don’t get explosive diarrhea every time I have a glass of water because of regulation. Next stop – we dismantle this criminal for-profit health care system where people go bankrupt when they get sick so fat bastards like Bill McGuire can reap a 1.6 BILLION DOLLAR BONUS. Sick. Sorry Deuce, we need a strong social safety net for EVERYONE - not just the rich. Just as I appreciate the regulation of the roads I travel when I drive my car, Capitalism needs rules too so everyone gets home alive. Just curious... Duece.... Which right wing organization is paying you for your posts? There are many Con groups that pay about 10 cents a post to you dupes. Which one is paying you? You see, right wing policies are such utter FAILURES for We The People that they rely on propaganda campaigns to disseminate lies and misinformation – all intended to enlist the dumb serfs in the causes of the very wealthy. They pander to a fear of “big government” (even though when in power they grew the size of government to the largest in history –and borrowed more money from foreign governments than all other administrations since the inception of our country COMBINED- hypocrisy as usual) while they cultivate big government to protect the wealth of the lords from the dumb serfs. It’s all smoke and mirrors at the expense of the people.

Your clinging to dead ideology enables this race to the bottom for the majority of Americans. Are you willfully ignorant or merely unconscionable? And another thing - I am also so SICK of you right wingers crying about having to pay your fair of taxes while sucking at the government teet. Just pay your G-D fair share and shut up. Stop whining and trying to game the system. You sure had no problem when Bush was squatting in the White House and took us from a massive surplus to massive debt to fund his illegal wars and line the pockets of his conies! Your utter hypocrisy is the most unconscionable. Now that we have to clean up the mess YOUR ILK created (AGAIN) all you do is cry about it. Just accept the fact that your policies are failures and leave the normal people alone as we save your capitalist ass once again. You parrots cry “tax cuts” (for the rich – hehe ) like the Rapa Nui priests of Easter Island cried “build one more Moai and the crops will return!” Sickening.

Take a chill pill dude.

It's people like you, on the right and the left that are not good for the common good of our country. Everything has 2 sides; up/down, left/right, right/wrong, etc....

The people that do not understand this are the problem. It's not a matter of you being right or wrong, it's a matter of seeing that there is a reason for 2 sides in politics. Oh wait, you believe in Communism.

It just dumbfounds me that so many people are against Capitalism. You should interview immigrants that came to America in the last 30 years and see their point of view on America.

As of tax cuts, you received a tax cut under Bush, no matter how much you earned. Under Obama we are all receiving a tax increase, regardless if you want to believe it our not. Again, look at the entire picture. If you purchase ANYTHING, you will be funding that tax increase for a large corporation. It's pretty simple. As for individual taxes, why are so many people outraged and believe that someone earning over $250,000 should be heavily taxed? Most of them have worked their butts off. Most of them are highly educated. Is that really bad? Why should this person pay so much more "percentage wise" than someone that chooses not to go to college and sit back and earn $50,000 year for 30 years and “never want anymore”? What is actually fair?

Again, it doesn't have to be fair in your world, because you're OK with everyone being the same.

This is me walking around a bunch of "you". At least everyone is eating, clothed, and have shelter....all provided by someone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ_2cBs6iis&fe...

"This is me walking around a bunch of "you".

Maybe they'll let you out of there one day when you come back to reality

I was talking to dacktyl.

Stop being so sensitive Rexhunter. I'm living in reality. Just keep waiting for a handout, because it will come during this administration. I just hope all this spending works, not just for the short term, but the long term.

I think it's some what humorous how some liberals make comments about conservatives and how they are planted on websites, attack dogs, getting paid, etc......but what are you and dacktyl??? There is no difference. We enjoy the banter and debating. Neither one of us will change each others views. So stop taking everything so personally.

While the Democrats are in power, why don't they just make it criminal for a politician to lie during an election campaign, or in any speech in Congress? In essence they'd just be extending the existing fraud laws into the political arena. The penalty would exclude the criminal from ever again holding elected office.

Note that this is not a first amendment issue - free speech is not protected when you are making statements designed to bilk someone out of money or valued property. It's high time that it was established in law that a person's vote is an item of inestimable value, and any effort to deprive them of its fully informed exercise is a crime. As it stands politicians are allowed to behave while trying to sell you on their party and platform in a way that would never be allowed for someone selling you an appliance or a cellphone plan.

Obviously the reasons that the Democrats will never do this is that they wish to reserve the right to lie to the public themselves. Sad, but true.

Practically every government in the world, that has a healthy government, uses progressive taxation. Flat tax just doesn't give you the revenues needed to run a government.

--this was supposed to be a reply to Duece. Silly server.

And the Reslugs can't figure out why they are being called the same old lying party of just say "NO" to any new ideas.

Hey

What ever happened to "Freedom ain't free?" Is the cost of freedom only measured in blood? April 15 is the day we pay up for the benefit of living in America.
Deal.

Why don't we all just pay 39% flat rate? Are you OK with that? This way we actually generate more in tax revenue.

would be fair to the poor.Or are you trying to pull our leg and be funny?

healthCare insurance provided by a large employer for instance receives TAX benefit(ERISA). that TAX decrease/benefit is subsidized by many people who don't/recently don't have health insurance. i'm
saying there are plenty of costs SHIFTED to the public but NOT officially titled a TAX but essentially
it's a TAX. LOOK at healthCare the paying pool absorbs the cost taken on by people who can't pay their healthCare bill........essentially a TAX. some numbers have been shown that about $500.00 is added to a family of four health insurance premium to pay for people without health insurance. people brought/let in to this country for labor don't have health insurance. that cost is absorbed by TAX payers.

Yes they may get a tax break, that is to encourage them to provide health insurance for their employees, who otherwise wouldn't be insured. Which lowers the cost to the taxpayers who then don't have to pay for the medical bills of the uninsured.

Also ERISA covers more than just health insurance, and it sets minimum standards for employee benefits for the companies that choose to offer them.

So if a company chooses to offer health insurance and pays a portion of it, which helps out the taxpayers by getting more people insured, why shouldn't they get a tax break?

just saying it's being subsidized by those without healthCare insurance. it's aform of a social program in my opinion.

subsidized when they are in all probability saving the govt money by providing the insurance. If they got tax breaks over what they pay, then I could see your point. And while checking into ERISA I couldn't find anything that gives them tax breaks under it. Yes employers do get deductions for what they pay into the insurance plan through the tax code. They can get a tax deduction through ERISA but as a side benefit but not directly relating to it. That is by instead of purchasing a insurance policy, they set up a trust fund to pay for it themselves.

Forget the statistics, the *use* the GOPS make of the fact that *some* Americans pay no taxes is what is misleading and mean-spirited. I cannot recall which one said it and on what pundit program he or she appeared (I sometimes listen while at my PC), but one Repug actually said that it was unfair for the wealthiest Americans to shoulder such a heavy tax burden (a myth in itself) when "some" Americans pay no taxes at all, so "why not tax everyone?" Of course, he or she was referring to poverty-level people making minimum wage or a little more who are just barely buying a pound of ground round now and then and going from day to day without health care, making decisions people like the speaker never have to make.

If there is any one characteristic of the Repug Party today it is simply this: they are a selfish bunch of pigs!

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