A Holiday In Hell
It’s business as usual for The Independence of the Seas, owned by Royal Caribbean International cruise lines, which has docked at Labadee Beach, sixty miles from the ruins of Haiti’s earthquake hell.
Who, in their right mind, would even want to go to 'a walled resort', where 'pristine beaches and breathtaking scenery' are patrolled by armed guards to protect clients from all that 'native charm' in the first place, particularly now when there’s the risk desperate people might break through the resort's 12ft high fences in search of food and fresh water…
... oh, wait. Fat white men with pockets full of viagra.
After all, according to Pat Robertson, that is what separates 'cursed' Haiti from the prosperous and clean Dominican Republic - resorts. 'Hundreds' of Haitians are employed by Royal Caribbean – apparently 230, but enough for the plural – but I guess a little thing like having your entire country ravished by an earthquake isn't covered by their employment benefits. The company can't suspend operation to Haiti and still afford to keep these 'hundreds' of people on the payroll until the country buries the tens of thousands of dead and starts to rebuild? Damn, they must not be charging their customers enough! But that is, of course, why there are any customers in the first place; cheap holidays.
Impoverished countries from the Caribbean to south-east Asia provide a huge cheap labour pool as well as land for holidaymakers to relax in style. The Haitian private beach of Ladabee is no different than other gated resorts, if perhaps a bit top-heavy on the armed guards. Cruise ships rely on poor countries – as well as conveniently grey legislation allowing American companies to sail under Panamanian and Liberian flags of convenience – to keep their standards of luxury affordable. After all, the economy isn’t what it used to be, even for the rich folks.
Oh, but Royal Caribbean is also transporting food for the Haitians, 40 pallets of rice, beans, powdered milk, water and canned food. That's nice. I can’t help but wonder, however, how much more food as well as medicine, and doctors and nurses and maybe even people like engineers and carpenters and electricians and plumbers with building supplies for shelters could they transport if they turfed out the fat white men with pockets full of viagra from those 4,370 berths to make room? Royal Caribbean owns 42 ships, surely one of them can be used for something other than floating rock-climbing walls, miniature golf, lounges and restaurants, casinos, swimming pools, solariums, loft suites and flow-riders and zip-lines and aqua-theatres, whatever the hell those are, even ice-skating rinks.
Tourism for Haiti might be a vital industry... in the long run. In the short run, the last thing on most Haitians' minds right now is servicing rich fat white men with pockets full of viagra or selling junky tourist souvenirs, all those straw market vendors and hair-braiders smiling smiling smiling as they try to make enough to feed the kids a bit busy now digging them out of the rubble. If cruise ships and resorts were serious about 'helping' Haiti, it would suspend tourist trips and turn one of their ships into a hospital ship, or at least transportation for the thousands of desperately ill to hospitals still standing.
Meanwhile, while the Moby Dicks sun themselves on those pristine beaches and enjoy fruit and umbrella cocktails with the captain on the cruise ships, thousands of homeless Haitians have swamped every available ferry, hoping to be evacuated. The Trois Rivieres has only been given 1,500 gallons of fuel to evacuate as many people as they can to Jeremie, on Haiti’s far western tip. Hundreds of people have waited days, carrying everything they have left in plastic bags or suitcases or bedsheets, the wharf littered with rubbish and human excrement, the ground cracked from the earthquake – a far cry from the luxury enjoyed by rich tourists only sixty miles away.
The ferry is licensed to only carry 600, but on its last trip to Port Jeremie, it ferried over 3,000. Those who couldn’t make it onto the ferry were crowding into anything that floats that they can find, row boats so overcrowded they’re in danger of sinking. Even a single Haitian coast guard boat sent to try to control the masses trying to board the Trois Rivieres was swamped with people trying to flee.
Tens of thousands of children orphaned by the earthquake, some too young to even tell aide workers their names, are living on the streets, with nowhere to go and no one to care for them. Nine-year-old Haryssa Keem Clerge was buried alive for two days, screaming in pain while neighbours dug her out with bare hands – they didn’t get to her in time, and her body left on the hood of a car, nowhere to take it. An eleven year old girl miraculously rescued from the rubble was rushed to a first aide station but died as doctors were not sufficiently equipped to deal with her injuries and her family couldn’t drive her to the hospital outside Port-au-Prince. Rescue workers are still digging people, alive and dead, out of the shattered city – and adding them to the tens of thousands who have nowhere to go. But why let that spoil a barbecue on the beach, or a bit of jet-skiing?
But the beneficent folks at Royal Caribbean have announced the company would donate 100% of the proceeds from its call at Labadee to the relief effort, and pledged $1m to the relief effort. After all, they’ve just spent $55 million upgrading Labadee, they’ve got a lot of investment in the peninsula. It only makes sound financial sense to protect your assets.
I’m sure that’s of great comfort to the thousands of injured still waiting for medical treatment and the homeless desperate to escape from hell.
Let them swim in their viagra laced pool
and dance to the sounds of death
while drinking a bottle of wine that could
pay for 100 pounds of rice.
Let the fat, white bastards eat cake, too!
Make no motto of love that worships war
Wonderful post, as usual!
Make no motto of love that worships war
"...wonderful..."??
Well, yes...as "wonderful" as your poetry.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
with their smug arrogance still showing on their faces.
Surely a pacific princess could be used for temporary housing. Is that too much to ask, well I guess it is. I hope the old slobs who are vacationing their pick up a gift that keeps on giving after they leave. Something for them to remember Haiti by.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
I wish they had better natures to appeal to.
while recognizing Haiti's catastrophe, wonder where all these people, all the outpouring of help and money, and all that support were in their city's hour of need?
Yeah, Haiti's is in ruins, and thousands dead, and the country needs everything it can get, right now. No question. But the people of New Orleans are asking, "where were you all, when Katrina hit?"
A lot of people gave to both. And to the 9/11 funds too.
& if I remember correctly, countries around the world wanted to help us with Katrina. The Bush Admin told them we didn't need their help.
When Katrina hit, Bush was President. It's really not that complicated.
Bruce C Johnson
Their cold indifference to the Haitians' suffering is disturbing and outrageous. Truly shameful.
Thanks for your beautifully written post, nonny mouse.
would it be better for the Haitian economy if everyone decided to stay home? I imagine many of these people booked their vacations long before the earthquake and if they had been able to foresee this catastrophe would have booked vacations elsewhere. That wouldn't do the Haitians any good at all.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
was about conspicuous consumption in the face of spirit crushing poverty. These cruises rub wealth in the faces of the indigent; the recent earthquake merely puts a fine point on it. Moreover, an honest cost-benefit analysis would probably show that these cruises actually extract money from places like Haiti.
the people of these types of Island nations don't see crap from the tourism.
I've been to Jamaica and have also seen this first hand. MILLIONS of dollars pour into these countries, but it all goes to the most wealthy. the people that toil there work for nothing and live in crushing poverty. I will never contribute to that again. But, at the time, I didn't know.
That is a relative term. By the standards of the rest of their compatriots they are much better off. I've worked in Caribbean countries as an engineer. In kingston, Jamaica the port is a free port which means raw materials are offloaded and processed and immediately exported. Principally the work is in textiles. On any given day there are thousands of people waiting outside the gates hoping to get one of those jobs. It isn't pretty. By the way you'll be pleased to know that the entire dock structure was and remains substandard and in the event of an earthquake would crumble like a house of cards. We evaluated repair techniques but there was no money to fix it. What I saw there was quite shocking.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
visited Jamaica. The poverty there was eye-opening. And, yes, not much of the tourist income seemed to be trickling down to the poor. I've been a working class guy my whole life; I was broke for a month after that vacation. But after two weeks in Jamaica, I felt like a bloated, priviledged hypocrite.
done what to help the poor of Jamaica?
Let me guess. You like Royal Caribbean cruises and you're offended by nonny's uncharitable characterization of their patrons. Is that it? Is that why you registered with C&L an hour ago? To defend the honor of cruise-goers?
I spend most of my time commenting at Daily Kos, but C and L is a daily stop since 2004 and yes I did just register to respond to this ignorant post. I've been on 6 cruises in my 54 years, 4 on Royal. My family and I enjoy them. I'm also a left wing, vegan vegetarian and I donate $1000 of my $65,000 per year salary to charity, including Physicians Without Borders.
So, my question remains: If you were so bothered by the poverty you saw, what have you done to help the poor in Jamaica? I think its relevant here.
What I've done to help the poor in Jamaica is to no longer participate in a tourist industry that exploits them. $65,000 per year is roughly double what I've earned in my best year (so far), and far more than I'm earning now. Everything is relative. To those Jamaicans, I was a rich American; to me, you are a rich American. Perhaps to your betters, you feel poor or something.
In any event, you could've just stated your objection to nonny's post rather than picking me out for attack. I mean, you've been visiting C&L daily since 2004 and this is the post that got your dander up? Me thinks me senses some skewed priorities.
So you've done nothing except use your "discomfort" at the poverty you witnessed during your two week vacation as a talking point here.
Nice.
discomfort at the poverty I've witnessed, while you express discomfort at being insulted in a post about cruise ships. Nice.
At the gross mis-characterization of cruise ship passengers as "fat white men" with "pockets full of viagra."
Avoiding the question and going directly to attacking the questioner? Defensive, much? Now I want to know. if you were so personally appalled at the poverty you witnessed, what have you done since?
responding to a previous personal attack by Al.
You are avoiding the question.
is at 17:08.
I'm sorry. It just reminds of the days when I was a Maoist or a Trotskite (or was it Trotskist?) and I used to make fun of the grownups and their "bourgeois" values and tastes.
are hardly the leisure pursuit of the wealthy. In fact they cater to a very middle class clientele. Furthermore I doubt if any cruise ship would be suitable for disaster relief. Unless the refugees were looking forward to rock climbing and dumping their disposable income in the inevitable casino. The idea of using cruise ships for temporary housing has been floated and rejected. They aren't designed for it. They are designed to be refueled and replenished at very short intervals which means if you used them to house refugees you'd have a worse logistical problem then you have now. Replenishment at sea is harder than doing it on land. Much harder. The people who make their living off tourists need their incomes right now as much as anybody does.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
"These types of cruises are hardly the leisure pursuit of the wealthy."
Correct. They are the liesure pursuit of the middle class, just like the overpriced, slave labor-produced products at Wal-Mart or Target.
And your point is?
My point was clear. What's the matter? Can't you read?
who do you think assembled the parts in your computer? And the computer itself? Hypocrite.
computer is made entirely of organic hemp, runs on solar power, and I ride a donkey to work. Happy now?
You've shown that you can dodge any question thrown your way, and that this utter outrage and moral indignation extends only to the point where it might actually impact your life.
Cruise ships don't have all that much impact on local economies. They are neither serviced nor replenished in those ports for obvious reasons. On the other hand they don't have that much negative impact either. Tourists do leave some money behind but that's about it. To the Haitians dependent upon those dollars however they are very important.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
where you're coming from. Maybe nonny's post was a little hyperbolic, and it's true that the cruise industry provides some desperately needed dollars. But I'd rather see some sustainable economic growth in places like Haiti than crumbs left behind by tourists. It's the same way that buying Nikes provides a little money for the Indonesian workers who make them, but it would be better if Nike dipped into their rapacious profit margins and offered a better wage.
Haiti is a nightmare in economic terms. Deforestation, no infrastructure before the quake, corrupt governments.. what sort of sustainable economic growth are you thinking of here?
the World Bank & IMF loans under which Haiti labors are laden with requirements to purchase agricultural products from Western countries. This has decimated Haiti's domestic agricultural production, forcing rural residents into the cities to find work, which in turn has caused the value of a man-hour to plummet. These restrictions should be lifted, perhaps in conjunction with a progressive debt-forgiveness program. Future loans should be used for reforestation and to re-invigorate Hatian agriculture, and they should be allowed to trade their agricultural products on the common market (at least temporarily) thereby skirting various "free" trade agreements.
to disagree with you there BDM. Despite significant migrations of Haitians elsewhere the population has doubled since the sixties. There was no more arable land to be had and such as there was has suffered severe degradation. Haiti is in the lamentable situation of devoting all their land to subsistence agriculture or using some to generate foreign reserves for the things they need to buy. Which is just about everything else. Unless some sort of economic development takes place in Haiti they will be an eternal basket case.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Haiti produced more than 80 percent of its own food and exported coffee, cocoa, meat and sugar. Since then, political instability, among other factors, has made the development of Haitian agriculture a low priority.
...
By the 1980s and 1990s, a huge amount of international pressure had been placed on Haiti to reduce its tariffs and open most of its markets to the world. This process has strengthened a demographic shift in which poor rural populations, out of work, have moved to urban slums, often working as street vendors."
http://www.discoverjamaica.com/charities.html
Haiti's arable land has shrunk dramatically in the past few decades. It cannot feed itself. I agree with you about forgiving loans, that seems to be in the works already, but what do all these people do when the telethons end and the flow of aid stops? Where is your viable economic base?
From what I have read the World Bank and IMF were working on canceling the Haiti debt before the earthquake and I would guess that pressure is on to move faster now. The way the world has treated Haiti over the past 50 years and more is... well it just is not right. Maybe the world will actually come to the long term aid of Haiti with no strings attached. Time will tell.
"... an honest cost-benefit analysis would probably show that these cruises actually extract money from places like Haiti..."
Ok. Point to one.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
be difficult to find one. Industries tend not to publicize their bad works. However, it stands to reason that, as with other industries, they aren't operating in the third world for altruistic reasons, they are doing it to save money. The environmental impact of cruises has been well documented, which is one reason the ships fly under third-world flags rather than under those of their actual countries of origin. If these companies are so eager to flout their own countries' environmental standards, they are probably also eager to flout their employment standards as well by offering only low-wage jobs with shitty benefits and zero job security.
What a short sighted, idiotic post. This isn't even close.
You got it exactly opposite of correct. "Tourism for Haiti might be a vital industry... in the long run."
Are you serious??? The short term is what's important in the next few months. In fact, its all there is.
Dollars are dollars. Whether its from "rich fat white men with pockets full of viagra." or from Hugo Chavez or the Israelis.
Survival...Look into it.
Jeez.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
Okay - I'm a big C&L fan, and was one of those "rich white guys with Viagra" that you kindly referred to me as. The fact that only one of those applies, but that shouldn't matter. I just got back from Labadee on an RCCL cruise and certainly must defend the ship and company. EVERYONE is well aware of what is going on in Haiti and no one was out dancing on the graves of the Haitians. We held fundraisers the entire week and the passengers alone contributed over $200,000 for the relief effort. RCCL, despite what you think of their decision to port there, donated all the alcohol proceeds, excursion fees and donated $1 million to the effort BEFORE the bad publicity. Since the ship was not sold out, we were able to bring along 500 relief workers and food and medicine. What do you think would have happened if they didn't port there? I'm a die-hard progressive, but am really taken aback from skewed anger here. From the perspective of the crew, who make very little and the passengers who banded together gave me such trust in us as human beings to help each other. I understand the economic dynamics of this industry, but really...we all have beating hearts too and none of the positives have been addressed, so I can certainly see how "news" works works both ways now.
I'm really glad to hear about the contributions of RCCL and the passengers. I know that a lot of the people on the cruise are far from rich, so the 200,000$ is great. It's not like the passengers would get their money back or their vacation days back from their jobs if the cruise ship skipped Haiti. It would just be empty PR.
Prior to the earthquake in Haiti, we filmed on the Cloud 9 Adventures Jam Cruise series that offers Hippies like us a chance to listen to incredible music while cruising the Caribbean. But Jam Cruise and Cloud 9 take over this MSC Cruise ship and provide both sustainable greening programs to dramatically reduce the carbon footprint of the trip, as well as to provide necessary items for needy communities that Jam Cruise visits. This year Cloud 9 announced that their Leaving a Positive Legacy program is now it's own non-profit (501(c)(3)) organization. Our hope of course is that this concept as instituted by Cloud 9 and Jam Cruise will be adopted by other large cruise and tour companies, creating a platform whereby tourists can pay for excursions that actually bring charitable contributions to places they visit! Learn more at JamCruise.com
I can't believe the ignorance and lack of understanding that nonny mouse shows in this post. What a bigot with your pre-conceived notions of a cruise ship passenger, and you repeat it over and over again.
I have an idea. How about if every tourist and every cruise ship just abandon Haiti. Would that make you happy. The industry is doing quite alot. And if you think that an empty cruise ship filled with food and supplies would be an efficient method of transpot to Haiti then you are just proving your ignorance of the ships themselves. I really hate when good people like you just can't help but make an issue of every fuckin' thing you don't understand.
What an awful, awful post. Real helpful to the folks suffering in Haiti. And what is this fat white men shit? Have you ever been on a cruise? Just average folks of all races and shapes taking their hard earned one of week vacation. I would imagine that many, like so many folks from around the world, have donated to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.
If you want to trash Royal Caribbean for returning to Labadee way too early, or for not giving enough to relief efforts, that's fine, but your twisted view of the passengers on these ships is just wrong. You should apologize.
Perhaps RC needs to do what some of the tours do up here in the Northwest: small cruises with low impact that work with communities along the way.
This line is run by RCCl:
http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/home.do;jse...
Perhaps they need exclusively small (less than 150 passengers) liners.
I heard about this on the Ron Reagan show. I shared Nonny's disgust in my immediate reaction. But after thinking about it, I don't know if a cruise ship going to Haiti now is any worse than cruise ships at any time. They are opulent, but so are Cadillacs and diamonds and steak. I know some people who enjoy cruises (in my family) and I think they are pretty stupid, but I don't think the ship is harming anyone in Haiti. Ron Reagan said one of them delivered some big (30 pallets I think) aid shipment too.
My bottom line, the exploitation and the opulence (and the environmental destruction) is bad anytime. This is no worse.
I wasn't going to respond but of course I will...
I think it is very unfair to call the people who take their 10 day yearly vacation on a cruise ship "Fat white men with pockets full of viagra." I know you are referring to Limbaugh but to compare these people to Limbaugh is not fair and not correct. Also I can't imagine that these ships only have (as you say) "Fat white men with pockets full of viagra" aboard. Don't they bring their women?
BTW, I have never been on a cruise ship.
Cruise lines have been working like mad to attract families for years now. They offer kid-friendly excursions and on-board entertainment, day care for younger kids, some even have special meals and dining facilities just for younger family members. except for specialty cruises advertised as singles events, everything is geared to make a cruise a family vacation.
I seriously doubt nonny mouse has ever set foot aboard a cruise ship. I grew up the son of a travel agent, I've been on many.
I wasn't going to respond but of course I will... (me too)
I often vacation is SE Asia, and there is some crushing poverty there too. I stay in local inns, never been to a resort, nor would I go to one. I buy things from local people, eat at local restaurants, use local tuk-tuks and scooter taxis, etc., and I tip really well. I was there right after the tsunami (I was the only one there--seriously, I had a small hotel/inn to myself) and there were still bodies floating in the sea.
I asked the locals if they were offended by my presence and I got a resounding NO!!! We're praying every minute for people like you to come back. We're afraid we'll lose our shops and restaurants etc., for good, and then we're f#@ked and got NOTHING. So even with all their problems they know tourists bring much-needed money.
I always make a point of talking to locals and trying to support their businesses. I don't go to hotel chains or McDonald's, I buy most everything from locals and street vendors. That's how they earn money to eat.
Now for the cruise ship. I don't blame working stiffs for enjoying their week holiday on a ship. The earthquake in Haiti was unexpected, and the cruise ship had, no doubt, planned the itinerary ages in advance. I do, however, find going ashore RIGHT NOW and frollicking on the beach tasteless, while others beyond the wire fences are dying. I think anyone with a bit of saavy would decline to go ashore and see if they couldn't raise some money or send some help, in any way possible, but NOT go ashore!! (Some did and partied it up on the beach.)
I can't blame these folks taking cruises for all the world's poverty, nor do I expect them to fix it. The rich developed world shares that guilt equally, and there is corruption in many of these poor countries too, and that cannot be overlooked either.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Well put.
is to close down one of the few places in Haiti where there are jobs, money flowing in as part of the regular economy, and almost no quake damage? The freaking cruise ships are bringing in supplies!
Fine, you go tell these people that, because of White Liberal Guilt, they no longer have jobs that well in salary and tips. You go tell them.
Labadee is far from the quake damage areas. No reason why life shouldn't go on there as normal. Hell, tourism is the one thing in Haiti that brings in foreign currency.
My wife and I work hard to pay for every cruise and vacation we have taken. The itineraries for these cruises are set a year or two in advance. It is not unusual for us to book a cruise more than a year out. We have had shore excursions cancelled because of weather and social unrest at a port-of-call. The cruise line has no control over these situations and the stops in Haiti were not planned so people could take in the pleasure of the destruction.
If you have ever been on a cruise and taken any of the shore excursions, you would realize what a huge industry this is for the people at these destinations. We often but things we don't need or more than we need just trying to help the locals whose only living depends on the tourist dollar.
Also, there is a limited tourist season. The Caribbean ships cruise Alaska from SPring through Fall, so the islanders can't rely on year round tourism for income. As one of our tour guides kept telling us abut the coming of June, "hard times came every year. '
Have you ever been on a cruise ship? How long would it take to cancel out that ships season with prepaid bookings, rip out beds, install hospital beds, hire medical staff, add operating rooms, etc. Also, these ships are not built to be self unloaders for moving freight. They are mean to have stores loaded by forklift from a level dock. The port cranes are not functioning in Haiti and they would do little good for a cruise ship.
The islanders who make their living from tourism desperately need the money spent by the tourists.
for posting this. The Haitian gov't officials (and even folks from the UN) were the ones that wanted the cruise ship to return (each time a ship stops there it is an automatic $50K in port fees, as well as monies spent by passengers with the local vendors) No passengers, no $$$$$$$.
Tell me -- what is somebody like me suppose to do. Yes, I am going on a RCCL cruise that is due to stop at Labadee in three weeks (and btw, I'm far from a rich, fat white guy on Viagra!). When I booked this cruise (over a year and a half ago) was I suppose to know about the devastation that was to occur because of this earthquake? Yes, it sucks to be placed in this situation. But I feel the Cruiseline made the informed decision to go back to the Island and even if my staying on the ship when we dock provides much needed $$ to the people of Haiti (as well as the cruiseline already delivering 120 pallets -- not the 40 as was stated in the post -- of food and medical supplies, then I'm doing what I can while there. If you think I'm less of a human being for it, then so be it.
I've been a faithful, donating fan of C&L for about 5 years now...but this is the last day I'll visit the site. Nonny's post is so way out of line, so full of creepy, sick, bitter anger...and the comments so equally knee-jerk and bigoted that I'm left almost breathless. I expect this from the right. I'm so sad to see it from the left.
It's a cruise ship. It's just a cruise ship. It's not evil incarnate. And each ship employs literally thousands who really, really, really need the work.
Ugh. Just talking about this post makes me even more sad...I feel like I need a shower...
"I just can't see myself sunning on the beach, playing in the water, eating a barbecue and enjoying a cocktail while there are tens of thousands of dead people being piled up on the streets," one commenter wrote on an Internet forum about cruises.
So what is the difference between that comment, Big and this:
"
Posted by BigDaddy about 30 minutes ago.
Sentiment is kind of similar, don't you think Big?
I wasn't agreeing with ankochan, I was quoting from the article that nonny's post links to because I thought it summed up my thoughts more succinctly.
There's a Dead Kennedys song that does an even better job.
One post out of the roughly 17,000 now in our archives drives you away?
You'll pardon me for saying so, but that's a pretty low threshold for pain.
Look, I've taken cruises, and last time I checked, I wasn't a fat man nor taking Viagra. But even I found it distasteful the thought of these tourists pouring out onto beaches when on the other side of the country, bodies are lying in the street and people are smearing toothpaste under their noses to block the stench of death.
I understand the justification that these tourists are bringing much needed money into Haitian coffers and that the tourists took it upon themselves to donate more money. That doesn't mitigate my first stomach-clenching reaction.
Perhaps if the cruise company had chosen another substitute port of call, it might not feel quite as ugly.
But hey, you can take personally all this as some attack on you and your travel desires and take your ball and go home if you'd prefer.
Anochan, just because of this stupid post. C&L does a lot of good, and spreads a lot of good information. Unfortunately, some of their writers go too far sometimes, and expect us to toe their line. If we are truly progressive, we can be open to ALL opinions, and reserve the right to tell the ones we don't agree with that they are full of s**t.
It's sad that ankochan says he/she has been a donating fan of C&L for about 5 years now and this is the first post since at least the web site was updated about a year and a half ago. This is the only thing that gave this person enough inspiration to post a comment??? Hopefully he/she will reconsider.
Regarding what Nicolle said, I bet the people who were on that cruise felt like shit stopping in Haiti and there was no way they could have changed it. It sounds like they did what they could or at least made an attempt to help.
That was the same observation I made about al23 earlier. He registered just to defend the honor of mischaracterized vacationers, while ankochan registered just to say that s/he is leaving. While nonny's post may have been unnecessarily hyperbolic, it strikes me as ironic that this of all issues was the thing that most aroused their ire. I hope nonny never writes anything mean about RVers.
<
Talk, at least with you Big, seems to be exceedingly cheap.
Well I tried to edit my comment to say:
I bet that most of the people who were on that cruise blah blah blah...
It's interesting how the words 'fat' and 'white' and 'man' have become slurs....and very acceptable slurs. While some of you are trying to be the 'good white' people and look down upon those spending their money on cruises consider this. Almost everything about the American lifestyle exploits someone or something in a developing nation. If you don't think so just do a little research. You live the lifestyle you do, the clothes, the food, the transportation the entertainment almost everything has some component of exploitation. Do you have a 401K? Check out what it involves and what those corporations are doing globally. Don't sit back and feel smug that you are somehow better because you are not spending your money on a cruise.
Donate to Haitian Relief. Do it now, any amount helps. Don't whine about not having as much money as the Cruisers do, even people on welfare are donating 5 and 10 dollar amounts.
Go to this site:
http://www.haititourisme.org/
Haiti has a tourism bureau and they were asking to be exploited well before the earthquake. The Caribbean Islands survive on tourism.
Should I cancel my South American trip because I may be exploiting the people that are hosting the next Summer Olympics?
Should I again go to Las Vegas instead and exploit the people the can't speak my language while they prepare food and clean the rooms at the hotels I frequent? Will I be exploiting the airline crew that lost their pensions when that airline filed for bankruptcy? If consumerism is exploitation, I'm good at it.
the serfs used to wait at the back doors of castles for scraps of food, and if no scraps were dumped that day, they begged for the scraps.
the fact is, RC deserves criticism, but not scorn. the cruise industry deserves that on its own. but even still they can't be blamed for taking advantage of poverty, in the long run they provide jobs at the market salary, shutting them down would be more disastrous. i don't know the answers or pretend to know much about the subject. my bet is soon they replace that destination temporarily. my guess is that putting a ship like that anywhere you want isn't so easy. lets hope they take care of those employees in labadee while they do so.
full disclosure: i took a RCCL cruise years ago and stopped in Labadee, i was neither rich or on viagra, i was white and little over weight though. I hope anyone doing business there can put it aside and help those people for as long as it takes.
We have more important political fights and helping these people than to fight about this one cruise ship
"...i was white and little over weight though."
What colour are you now?
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
That there are desperate people trying to scale the fence in Labadee right now. It's about 100 miles Northeast of P-a-P and the roads in Haiti are pretty damn terrible during the best of times.
Nonny Mouse, I usually enjoy your posts on C&L. But this is offensive.
Ok, you are trying the "fat white men" schtick with a link to Limbaugh and his viagra. It wasn't funny the first time and it wasn't funny all the subsequent times.
I'm liberal, but what do you have against "fat white men"? Is it their fatness, thus they are "Moby Dick"? Or, that they are white? Or that they are men? Or, they are using viagra? Are men that use viagra objects to be made fun of? If there were "fat black men using viagra" on the boat would it be the same, low-class rant?
Are the individuals (or families) who purchased tickets for a cruise before the earthquake to be ridiculed and condemned because they took a vacation to the wrong country?
The American people and corporations are pouring out millions of dollars in donations. The US government is assisting the effort. And because a cruise ship passed close to shore and was photographed all you can do is rant about "fat white men."
Is the cruise ship company responsible for Haitian relief efforts? I thought that was the proper job of governments. If the US government needed cruise ships for the relief effort, it would have asked. When Britain needed cruise ships for the Falklands War, it requisitioned them and paid for them.
Sometimes in a crisis, uncoordinated actions or unnecessary actions complicate relief efforts. How do you know if the USG has given any instructions to cruise ship lines? Are you an expert in disaster relief in general or disaster relief in Haiti that you can make broad condemnations?
as in strange not ha-ha, that the major issue with this post is that I referred to the likes of Limbaugh, who take holidays in struggling countries like the Dominican Republic for reasons having more to do with the viagra in his pocket than sandy beaches (and the other Moby Dick, Pat Robertson, who likens 'resorts' as a saving grace over 'cursed Haiti) as if my problem is with the clients rather than the cruise ship businesses.
Haiti, right now, needs help. Not tourists. Maybe in six months or a year, we can all worry about whether or not our bleeding heart liberal money 'helps' or 'hurts' third world economies, but RIGHT NOW, cruise ships have no business doing business in Haiti.
And while I do applaude those passengers who chose not to play tourist while docked in Haiti, quite a few of them were definitely of the mentality that, dayam, I worked hard to save up for this cruise, booked these tickets months ago, ain't my fault some earthquake ruined their country...
...I live in New Zealand, there are more boats per capita in this country than in any other country. Many of my friends work on cruise ships, both tourist and private. They found still running tourist trips into Haiti right now as distasteful as I do.
So maybe my problem IS with the clients... if comments above defending the right to have fun cuz I'm just a middle class working stiff and deserve it and, hey, it's good for the Haitian economy are any indication.
It seems you don't have to be a fat, white, male with pockets full of viagra to completely miss the point - cruise ships should not be going into Haiti for any other reason than humanitarian until this crisis is over - divert to another country, another port, refund tickets, whatever - but tourism while people are desperate and dying is disgusting.
Apologise? I don't think so...
Typical.
and you're entitled to it, but others can disagree. Haiti needs EVERYTHING, and not just as a result of the earthquake. Anything that can be done, even cruise ship visits, that bring ANY money or supplies to the island, should be encouraged. Just because it doesn't sit right with YOUR position doesn't give you the right to call people names. I was kicked off this site once for similar comments.
New Zealand? So, your bigoted slurs of RCL passengers was based solely on your fevered dreams of what such ships must be like? That's sort of like Reagan talking about ghetto welfare queens driving their Cadillacs to pick up their government checks, right?
You ignore the importance of these ships to the local economy. You ignore that the Haitian officials have asked that the cruise ships continue to visit Haiti. You ignore the reality of scheduling and contractual obligations. You ignore that the workers at this port-of-call depend on the regular arrival of ships for their livelihood.
No, from the other side of the freaking planet, you feel free to judge people you have no clue about and make demands that would remove one of the few operating portions of the Haitian economy. Because you are personally outraged. You ignore statements from people who had taken cruises recently that the passengers were well aware of the facts, and raised money, and that the ships are bringing in aid. You ignore the reality of what it takes to convert a ship from a luxury liner to other uses (During WWII it took five months to convert the Queen Mary to a troop ship.)
You do owe everyone who has ever taken a cruise an apology, and perhaps you should consider another line of work if all your writings are this poorly researched and hyperbolic.
It looks like nonny really aroused the "vacationers' rights" crowd. Is this an un-tapped voting bloc hitherto unkown to Democrats? Maybe Democrats could employ a new slogan: "Vacationers for Change." Or how about "Progressive Gated Resort Occupants for Hope?" I sure hope Rahm Emmanuel & David Axelrod are reading this thread.
Are you fraking kidding me?
Be outraged at the horrible conditions in Haiti. Be outraged at the taking of innocent lives, the sickness, the orphans, the lack of resources, the lack of earthquake building standards, the colonial imperialism that robbed this nation of natural resources, the fact that people are caring more about Haitians than other life-threatening spots (if you gotta). But getting outraged over an allusion to Rush Limbaugh and cruise-goers and DEMANDING an apology? How fucking narcissistic of you.
I think you've just made Nonny's point for her.
"Haiti, right now, needs help. Not tourists". Who made you the expert on what ANY one or country needs?
Seems like half the population of the cruises I've been on were women, maybe they had viagra I didn't check. Also I've seen a fair selection of people that are not as pasty as me on cruises too. If you would like to comment on the way the corporation treats the local, that seems fair. I also enjoy going out and spending my tourist dollars at local businesses when I'm in a port. The whole walled off private beach thing is a bit creepy, but we have great disparities in wealth and walled communities in this country to.
Let me also mention that I was on a cruise when Katrina hit, and we watched cnn every day, and gave to the red cross when we got home. I'm sure people on the cruises stopping in Haiti are aware, and wanting to help too.
I'm sure in your world no one ever goes on vacations, they get two weeks off from their stressful jobs and they go volunteer at the local soup kitchen?
people get more than two weeks off a year from their jobs, and as a matter of fact, New Zealanders are famous for spending their holidays doing eco-tourism or doing voluntary work in other countries - it is actually possible to go somewhere and do work on the ground for the people who need it building wells or schools or - if they'e got the skills - teaching and nursing, AND have a really great holiday experience in the bargain. They actually WANT to go to a different country and see what there is to see, eat the local food, hike through the countryside, interact with the people who actually LIVE there. I know one doctor who is an avid tramper, and spent his month's holiday volunteering his skills as a surgeon, free, for anyone in a tiny clinic in the mountains of northern India, where the 'bed' he slept on at night was his operating table by day. And he got to live in the village and hike in the mountains and experience life a hell of a lot more interesting that sitting on a beach with a couple thousand other fellow countrymen, eating food he could have had in any restaurant in Auckland, and playing miniature golf and jet-skiing, which he could do just as well anywhere in New Zealand. Kiwis are famous for their spirit of adventure and their willingness to help out those in need.
So, yeah, actually. People here DO go do volunteer work on their holidays, they are just smart enough to know how to do it and have fun at the same time.
But no one on any of those cheap cruises is going out and spending their tourist dollars at local businesses in Haiti right now. And if my choice is sitting on a gated beach at an all-you-can-eat barbecue in the midst of a disaster zone, or doing voluntary work on my holidays, then that's a no-brainer.
Sheesh.
Americans only get about ten days per year of vacation, and that's if you're lucky, so there's this pervasive sense of exploitation which I think desensitizes most Americans to the plight of their third-world hosts. As the Dead Kennedys put it, "Kiss ass while you bitch/So you can get rich/But your boss gets richer off you." There's a popular phrase in most American workplaces: Shit flows downhill. So vacations for most Americans are not about discovery or volunteerism; they are about gluttony and luxury and showing off your tan when you get back home.
the vast majority of the comments on here are defensive 'I'm not a fat white guy on viagra' or 'my going on a cruise is GOOD for the people of Haiti'. Or accusing me of 'whining' because I 'don't have as much money as cruisers do' (which is probably true, as no, actually, I don't have a 401K).
If you want to go to the Caribbean Islands or South America or Las Vegas (which last time I looked was still part of the US), where people survive on tourism and are 'asking' to be exploited, that is your choice; to equate all consumerism with exploitation, however, is far more hyperbolic than I was.
Or that it takes too much time to convert a cruise ship into a hospital ship - fine, but it takes no time at all to turn a cruise ship into an emergency evacuation ship, there are thousands of people desperately overcrowding ferries, which have precious little fuel to make the trip. What 'conversion' is necessary to run a ship from one end of the island to the other?
For all the money cruise ships pay for docking, it goes to the Haitian government, not the people who need it. (And we all know how altruistic and uncorrupt the Haitian government is - just like our own!) And while many of the folks going on those cruises may indeed care a great deal about the plight of the Haitians, they're stopping in Haiti in a gated, private beach patrolled by armed guards, carrying their little piece of America with them but where the weather is better.
But you're all so busy defending your right to a cheap holiday that you're diverting attention away from the main point - this isn't like an earthquake in California, where there is the money and the infrastructure to cope with it. As horrific as Katrina was, and as f*cked up as the Bush government's response to it, Haiti is ten times worse than what happened to New Orleans. There are tens of thousands of people dead, hundreds of thousands without homes, food, power, medicine, help. It's on a holocaustic scale that is absolutely staggering...
...and YOU want ME to apologise for dissing cruisers? Somehow, the denunciations and the demands I apologise to people for behaving as if going on a Wal-Mart budget cruise to a disaster zone of epic proportions is not only normal, but 'helping' the people of Haiti just convinces me all the more that I'm right.
Couldn't agree more.
nice to know some people here got it...
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me-oww!
you diverted attention away from the awful situation that the people of Haiti find them selves in today by making some ignorant, bigoted, straw man arguments about fat white men. If you had refrained from hurling insults about, your point that it is pretty awful that vacationers are enjoying a holiday at Labadee while 150,000 human beings lie dead across the island may have been more persuasive. (I can only assume that you are trying to persuade, rather than insult?)
Redirect the energy from your self-righteous indignation toward helping the Haitian people in their struggle to survive.
at how personal so many of you cruisers are over a reference to the reasons for Rush Limbaugh's choice of holiday destinations and Pat Robertson's definition of a civilized country as one with resorts for the likes of Limbaugh. Projection, much?
You're more concerned by that part of the post that 'insults' you, personally, than by the companies that are quite happy to keep on profiting by ferrying fat white men with pockets of viagra along with the above hard working folks who have 'earned' their cheap Wal-Mart holiday to a segregated, gated, and patrolled bit of the third world, and one which is now suffering a major catastrophe.
Unreal. Just... absolutely unreal.
I don't think I've ever been more surprised by a reaction to one of my posts than this one. I don't really care if everyone agrees with me all the time (it would be a pretty dull writer who pandered to the adoration of one's readership), but it is somewhat galling that so many in what one would assume was a progressive readership are fine with helping the people of Haiti... as long as it doesn't interfer with their cheap holiday plans. Or impinges on the perception of themselves as Moby Dicks.
I've lived as an ex-pat for most of my adult life, and I've seen my fair share of Americans on holiday behaving badly, way too many. In France, in Eastern Europe, in the Pacific Islands, the number of gormless, arrogant Yanks strutting around as if they own the world and expect the world to cater to themselves has embarrassed me for at least two decades now - there are just so MANY of them.
But I had always assumed (or possibly just hoped) that the good American tourists were like me, pretty unobtrusive and just going about my business enjoying what was on offer to enjoy and appreciating it - and smart enough to know where it is both safe and ethical to go.
By the number of people here defending their 'honour' and their 'right' to cheap holidays, it seems I might be wrong...
I was in Jamaica (mentioned above), one of my fellow countrymen -- not a friend, mind you -- kept telling the Jamaicans to "get the dick outta yer mouth" in reference to their accents, and when I was at a restaurant in Mexico a few years ago on a business trip, some Americans at an adjacent table thought it was the height of hilarity to speak like Cheech (of Cheech & Chong) while ordering their meals. Later, I apologized to the waiter in butchered Spanish and he accepted my apology in near-perfect English, explaining that it happens all the time.
if you weren't so condescending...how many times do you have to say it -- "Wal-Mart budget cruise", "cheap Wal-Mart holiday", "cheap holiday plans" or again, "cheap holidays".
I'd love to get more than 10 days of vacation...I'd love to make more than I do so I could spend my travel dollars and not be seen as "cheap". But I don't.
Until it sinks in, apparently.
My parents went on lovely cruises to Alaska. Our Kid did eco cruises in various places, and there are plenty of cruise ships going to places where the sun shines and the sea is warm and the people aren't dying by the tens of thousands.
You buy a cheap holiday to a place where corruption is rife, where your money goes to support a corrupt government, where you can kid yourself by thinking buying that straw donkey or getting your hair braided is 'helping' the local economy, then you're really no better than those who shop for Chinese made junk at Wal-Mart because they don't want to pay more for fair trade goods, or have to think too hard about the conditions the employees are working under.
It's a cheap Wal-Mart cruise. And if you can't afford to buy a cruise to somewhere more salubrious, then spend your limited resources on a tent and a backpack and check out the fantastic - and cheap! - places that exist all over America. I did when I was in the States, holidays in Death Valley doing photoshoots of wild coyotes were the most fantastic trip of my life, waking up with a wild coyote sniffing my face in curiosity was magical. And it cost a fraction of what it costs to lie on a gated beach in Haiti.
Last 'holiday' I had was in a tent, waking up in the morning on a beach in the Bay of Plenty, everyone else had already buggered off for the day so I had the whole place to myself, mist coming in off the sea, and I think I paid a whole $3 for a spot to pitch my tent. Camp ground owner even had free coffee on offer for early risers.
I can't afford a cruise, Wal-Mart or otherwise. I don't bloody care; I know how to have a great holiday with the limited funds I do have. So frankly, this whole whining about 'I'd love to go on a better cruise but this is all I can afford' just doesn't - excuse the pun - hold water.
Like I said, condescending. No one was whining about wanting to go on a better vacation but not being able to afford it. You don't know me nor do you know my travel habits. Most of the time the "holiday" is spent in my very own surroundings -- I'm fortunate to have the ocean nearby which for a nominal parking fee each summer provides many days of great entertainment. I just happened to book a cruise for a special event my family is celebrating. Did we take out a map and puposely choose to go to a port of call that has experience such devestation. No. This cruise was booked over a year and a half ago. The ship looked nice and the itinarary was short enough so not too many days were missed of work and long enough that we could enjoy all the ship had to offer. Would I have preferred to skip the Haiti port of call? Of course but it wasn't my decision. And unfortunately, it too late to cancel out altogether (travel insurance won't cover backing out of plans in this situataion). I do not fault the cruiseline -- they are doing what they can to alleviate the situation. It would have been easier to just say a big F-YOU to the Haitians and worry about good PR but damned if you do damned if you don't. If they completly abandoned Haiti at this time of need, they would have been faulted for skipping out when the going got tough.
But you're entitled to your own opinion as I am mine. I refrain from making judgments about your life half a world away as I would expect you would in kind.
Let's get down to the real problems in Haiti. And the earthquake has just brought these problems to the forefront. Haiti leads the Western Hemisphere in fertility, HIV percentage, illiteracy and the percentage of food that needs to be imported for the population. There are far more people in that country than they will ever be able to feed at a subsistence level, much less a healthy one. A few years ago, on the front page of our local South Florida newspaper, there was a story about a Haitian mother who had immigrated to the U.S. with her 16 children. Her quote was "I couldn't feed all my children in Haiti!" No sh*t, lady, I couldn't feed that many here, and I make decent money. Add to the over population the corrupt government, and you have a totally disfunctional excuse for a nation. Many make a big deal about Haiti being the first nation to gain its freedom as a result of a slave-led revolution, but that "government" has experienced 32 coups since the late 1700's. And one of the first things the freedom fighters did after taking over from the French was to kill or exile all the whites.
None of this is to say that the U.S. shouldn't help Haiti. It is morally imperative that we do, and I have not only donated money to the cause, but as a paramedic, am on a waiting list to volunteer in the country. I'm just saying that even if we rebuild the country, things are still going to be terrible, as they were before. To feel that cruise ships visiting a resort spot on the island is "distasteful" is your right, but I've visited Haiti a number of times over the years, and tourism is one of the few industries that have any chance of helping these people in the near and medium term.
...cruise ships visiting a resort spot on Haiti NOW is more than distasteful. In the long run... is there an echo? I think I said this ... tourism may be good for the country. But right NOW the county is suffering from a huge calamity on a scale that dwarfs even Katrina.
I am still amazed by the idea that anyone thinks it's a good idea NOW to be taking a holiday in Haiti. The only ships that should be going into Haiti - and there should be hundreds of them from everyone everywhere - are those sending relief and aid workers and supplies and helping to evacuate the injured to hospitals and the homeless to safety. The idea that it will be TOURISM that has any chance of helping the Haitians is... astounding.
Maybe later, when the country has buried its dead and put up a few more roofs again. THEN we can debate the merits of tourism in third world countries, pro and con, and if it exploits or helps the people or their governments more, have at it, yatta yatta. Tourists are not needed... NOW.
I cannot fathom how anyone can justify taking a holiday to a gated, 12 foot high fenced off beach patrolled by armed guards in a country so completely ravished by tragedy.
But right NOW... it's obscene.
You can keep saying it all you want, but it doesn't make it right or true. If you had been paying attention, you would know that the country can't handle all the ships and planes that are currently trying to get in NOW, due to one damaged port and one airport with one landing strip. The airport is being asked to land more than 600 planes per day, when they were accustomed to 3 or 4 per day. The port can't handle anywhere near that amount, and the idea of ferrying people from one area to another has very limited value. In other words, all that can be done IS being done, on a humanitarian level never seen before. Here in the U.S, which you may not know, charities of every ilk are tirelessly raising money, the main need in Haiti. Here in South Florida, every store you go to asks you to add to your bill with a donation to Haiti, and almost everyone does it.
When the Haitian government has asked that the cruise ship visits continue, who are you to label it obscene?
just going off based on a very ignorant point of view.
.
You speak as if France and the US had no hand in the Haitians coups and poverty, when ALL of it is down to the US and France.
Read a book.
me-oww!
thank you, and I'm sure I know many more Haitians than you will ever hope to meet, and been to Haiti at least 10 times. It's easy to blame the US for everything that happens, and of course they play a role, but if that is the only problem, why is the Dominican Republic, which shares the island of Hispanola with Haiti, relatively prosperous?
As for Nonny Mouse, I think that the "nerve" you hit is the reaction to the audacity you display by telling people what is obscene. It's your opinion, but its kind of like the judge who said "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it". While you hang with the Kiwis, we'll keep on helping the people of Haiti, and keep the cruise ships running.
ex-pats aren't 'real' Americans, and the only people giving humanitarian aide to the Haitians are Americans, the rest of the world doesn't give a shit.
Right, got it. Interesting mindset. I'll just get back to 'hanging' with all these heartless Kiwis down here...
Never said that, dishonest of you to imply it. I just expalined that everything that can be done, IS being done. You just can't seem to accept rejection of your position that cruise ships visiting Haiti is obscene. So let's put it another way.
You suggested that you and your friends who know and work on ships think that the cruise lines should visit alternate ports of call. OK, how about Peurto Plata? Only a few hundred miles from Labadee Beach, and on the same island, but in the Dominican
Republic.But is that too close to the disaster? How do you decide? Or should all cruise lines operating in the Caribbean stop operations until the disaster is mitigated? And are you qualified to make that judgement call, anymore than anyone else? When and if they do go somewhere else, the cruise ships take what money and support, however large or small, with them.
The French hasn't collected millions from the DR as reparations like they have from Haiti since their revolution freeing themselves from the French, and the US hasn't occupied them for decades at a time and propped up tinpot dictators, fomented coups then allowed the country to be looted while supporting unelected dictators, as has been done in Haiti.
Disney and other US companies do not operate sweat shops in the DR, paying pennies a day to sewers who could never hope to save enough $$ to buy a tshirt of stuffed animal they sew. Ironic isn't it, I mean the crappiest place in the world making toys and high priced souvenir Tshirts for "The Happiest Place in the World"
The US did not ruin the agrarian culture in the DR by forcing imported food on the country. All the farmers in Haiti left the countryside, crammed into Port Au Prince. The topsoil washed into the sea. That's how the city went from 50,000 to 3m. But you'd know that because you (allegedly) read books and (allegedly) have Haitian friends.
Truly you just look thick as two short planks with your posts about Haiti. You have NFI as to how many Haitians I know. I'm sure some of your Best Friends are...
http://www.counterpunch.org/smith01142010.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/jensen01252010.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/langlois01252010....
http://www.counterpunch.org/damu01222010.html
That's just the tip of the iceberg. I'd like to see you bootstrap your ass to prosperity with shit like this working against you.
Ah, but if you really read a book, or really had Haitian friends, you'd know better.
me-oww!
If you use Counterpunch as your authority, of course you don't have a clue. That article talks about Aristide as though he was a GOOD guy. In fact, he was corrupt, ran death squads and publicly praised the practice of "necklacing" his political opponents. Necklacing, in case you don't know from your Haitian friends, is when someone is tied to a stake, then an auto tire soaked in gasoline is hung around their neck and lit. But counterpunch liked this guy.
You really are pathetic.
Your source for the Aristide necklacing claim? I doubt you have anything credible, since the CIA has been fucking with the country for decades. Nothing like that could be traced back to him, because he never did it. Now little pissants like you could make it up and spread it around, but it doesn't make it so.
You just don't want to know. and it's my South African friends that told me the horrors of necklacing.
BTW, one of my sources was not cp, but I know you aren't at all interested in the truth. You won't even try to get the history of Haiti right. You are rewriting it, like a good little Thug.
go ahead. get me a source. as for your claim that cp is no good, I'd say of the two of us, you haven't a clue. The various authors got their facts from history books, which you seem to find anathema.
me-oww!
http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti-archiv...
This is from a witness to the Aristide speech. Of course, you probably won't believe that, either.
And BTW, with some of the name calling your directing at me, you're getting kind of close to violating the C&L Terms of Service. I'd hate to see you get kicked off the site.That's because I welcome diverse opinions and debate, rather than insult those who disagree with me.
[We'll decide who needs to be warned about their behavior-Sitemonitor]
palm
me-oww!
it's a wasted effort at this point.
I have no problem with charities of every ilk raising money for Haiti, but that wasn't the subject of my post. Nor were the airports - as cruise ships are self-contained little villages that really don't need the country to 'handle' them - not airplanes.
And of course the Haitian government is asking for cruises to continue - the docking fees are quite lucrative - why would the government want that to stop?
But I seem to have hit a real nerve somewhere, with people who are very upset about my questioning a cruise company's motives in continuing disaster tourism, and indignant that I can't make the connection between people wanting to enjoy cheap cruises and genuine humanitarian help. It makes me curious as to why...
I'm glad you "have no problem with charities of every ilk raising money for Haiti". I'm sure all those organizations will feel much better now. As far as the ships being "self contained little villages", they are still huge ships that need PORTS to dock at. There are simply not enough ports in Haiti to handle what you suggest.
So really, you make two points. One, that these ships should stay away because to vacation on a stricken island is obscene, and two, these ships could be used for humanitarian aid. So one is an opinion that a lot of people disagree with, and two is logistically impossible.
Notice that in not one of my posts did I refer to your white male/viagra reference. That was just stupid and sexist.
you are mingling with non-respectable vacationers on a grand scale when you travel to the poorer nations in order to maximize the value of your american dollar. seeing mtv spring break in a place like cancun is pretty offensive knowing that the beach is for the tourists, and beyond the strip of resorts is a slum while drunk college kids act belligerent and get their freak on for a cheap good time. the d.r.? sex tourism and cheap land investments for "get-rich-quick" foreign land developers. philippines. thailand, and vietnam? same thing. the well-to-do of beverly hills "slum it" when they hit up the rest of los angeles, but american, and other foreign "working stiff" vacationers with a bit of change like the australians, british and french, take "slumming it" to a whole new extreme. be offended if such thoughts offend, you deserve it.
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