On This Week with Christiane Amanpour, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on the growing democracy movement in the Middle East -- and what it means to America. She says "in general" the United States is in favor of human rights and democracy, while recognizing that the process can be "hijacked" by other interests, using as an example the 1979 uprising in Iran that ended up with an extreme Islamist regime.
All logical, of course, but I don't think the U.S. will be treating this as respectfully as the recent events in Egypt:
AMANPOUR: In the Middle East overnight, the popular uprising sweeping the region have taken their most violent turn yet. It happened in Libya. Protesters there have been calling for the removal of the strong man, Moammar Gadhafi, for the last five days. He's been in power for more than 40 years. And eyewitnesses are reporting that the military has now been firing on protesters after gaining their confidence and being welcomed into the crowd. A doctor gave a dramatic radio interview. Let's listen.
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(UNKNOWN): Oh, my god. They're firing on the civilians here. They're crazy. They're going crazy here.
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AMANPOUR: There are reports of hundreds dead and thousands injured in Libya.
In Yemen this morning, thousands marched again in the streets of the capital, Sana'a. The president, an important American ally in the war on terror, blamed the unrest on a foreign plot.
And in Bahrain, home to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet, which protects crucial oil-shipping lanes, demonstrators retook the square where their calls for reform have now given way to calls for the king to step down.
Bahrain, of course, is also a logistical hub and command center for U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. And last night, in a 180-degree turn, the crown prince offered to open up a dialogue with the protesters. ABC's Miguel Marquez is there.
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MARQUEZ: Christiane, it is amazing, the difference that 24 hours makes. This time yesterday, this country appeared poised for civil war; now it is a celebration down here at Pearl Square, as you can see. And it appears we're headed for a negotiated political settlement.
In order the get the settlement they want, these protesters are now willing to stay for the long haul. You can see they've set up tents all the way around Pearl Square here. They're even serving food out here. That tea, by the way, is called Freedom Tea, and they are very organized. This area over here is the men's section. And then right back here, all these people in black, that's the women's section.
The big question is, what will get these protesters to go home? They want a constitutional democracy. They want the king to back off of politics and become a figurehead. They want the prime minister, who's been in power for 40 years, to go home. But so much blood has been spilled here in the past week, these protesters want a significant deal. Will they get it? It's not clear. It's not clear what will get them to stop protesting, pack up their tents, and go home.
Christiane?
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AMANPOUR: And we'll keep watching Bahrain and the other uprisings.
President Obama has called Bahrain's king -- he did that on Friday -- urging him to respect the rights of the protesters. The administration once again finds itself in a bit of a bind, as freedom activists face off against an authoritarian ally.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton walked a fine line when I spoke to her exclusively on Friday.
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AMANPOUR: Madame Secretary, thank you for joining us.
CLINTON: Thank you for having me.
AMANPOUR: About Bahrain.
CLINTON: Uh-huh.
AMANPOUR: How do you assess Bahrain right now? Is it stable?
CLINTON: You know, Christiane, we've been very clear from the beginning that we do not want to see any violence. We deplore it. We think it is absolutely unacceptable.
We very much want to see the human rights of the people protected, including right to assemble, right to express themselves, and we want to see reform. And so Bahrain had started on some reform, and we want to see them get back to that as quickly as possible.
AMANPOUR: What will the United States do? And will it hold Bahrain to a similar standard, as it did Egypt?
CLINTON: We -- we try to hold everyone to a similar standard, but we cannot dictate the outcomes. We cannot tell countries what they're going to do. We had, you know, no control over what happened in Egypt.
AMANPOUR: As Americans sit and watch and try to make sense of what's going on in the Arab Muslim world, is what's happening -- is the emerging new order, is it good for America? What should Americans make of it?
CLINTON: Well, I think, in general, Americans are in favor of human rights, freedom, democracy. We know that ultimately the most progress that can be made on behalf of human beings anywhere is when those individuals are empowered, when they have governments that are responsive. That's what we want to see.
At the same time, we recognize that this process can be hijacked. It can be hijacked by both outside and inside elements within any country. I mean, what a tragedy to see what happened in Iran. There was a great deal of hope and pent-up feeling that the time had come in 1979, and look at what Iran is doing today.
AMANPOUR: You want democracy. You speak about democracy. Can you control democracy? Should you control democracy? Or do you have to take the chips and let them fall where they may if you want democracy?
CLINTON: Well, I think that, first, we have to start from the basic premise as to what democracy means, and democracy is not one election that then whoever wins it decides never to have another one.
That is not what anyone wants. We want to work with those forces within societies that are yearning for change to make sure that they have the support needed and, frankly, the technical assistance, the financial assistance to be able to make it through to what is a good outcome, what they've asked for in their online blogs and in their posters and in their interviews.
AMANPOUR: I want to ask you this, because it's an in-depth interview that you've done in Bazaar. It's a beautiful layout. I'm struck by the imagery, though. You are there, beautiful, but in a corner.
CLINTON: You know, I just do what photographers tell me to do. It has no metaphorical meaning for me.
(LAUGHTER)
AMANPOUR: But I wanted to ask you, do you feel in a corner right now or on a tight rope, trying to balance the need for stability in countries where you have allies and interests, and your values, wanting democracy and all the human rights for the people there? Is that a struggle? CLINTON: Well, I think it is a challenge. And it is a challenge not only at this point of time in the Middle East; it is an inherent challenge in diplomacy, in America's efforts in the world. We want to advance our security, our values, and our interests. And if there were one template that could be imposed on every situation, I wouldn't need to have this job, and nobody else would have to, either. But this is often a balancing act and...
AMANPOUR: Do you feel you're at a turning point, at a sort of a tectonic shift in trying to figure out where the balance is, where your strategic interests lie?
CLINTON: Well, Christiane, we deal with, you know, so many countries around the world, some of whom are closer to our values, who see their interests in ways we do and some of who -- whom are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
AMANPOUR: In the Middle East, America's strategic interests have been with some of these autocratic rulers. They've helped you with Israel and peace in the region. They've helped you against terrorism. Do you believe that a democratic people could be a force for much more stability, longer-term stability?
CLINTON: Well, ultimately, a really truly functioning, comprehensive democracy has historically been proven to be a greater force for stability. Navigating through what are difficult choices for societies that are doing that transition is something that the United States encourages, as we did after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and will continue to encourage. At the same...
AMANPOUR: So here, will you be encouraging it here?
CLINTON: Well, we have been. But at the same time, we are also knowledgeable enough about historical experiences to know that this is not an easy journey for any people to make. There are many threats and problems along the way.
AMANPOUR: It is beyond dispute that the Obama administration scaled back their democracy and freedom agenda of the Bush administration. In Egypt, the funds for NGOs and the like, civil society, democracy-building, were cut back and furthermore were directed, when they were directed, to NGOs that were supported by the Mubarak regime. Was that a mistake?
Clinton: Well, first of all, I just reject the premise. I think that there is...
AMANPOUR: It's -- it's indisputable.
CLINTON: Well, it's not. That's just not -- that's just not the case. There were differences in approach under the same set of goals to try to promote democracy, economic opportunity, women's rights, labor organizing. There are many different ways that I think all of us, different administrations, different experts, have struggled with.
There is no debate that, for 30 years, Republican and Democratic administrations alike sent the same message to President Mubarak and the regime, that they had to change. And we were all trying different ways.
You know, I think it's fair to say that none of us were particularly successful, because we kept running into an absolute rejection that that was not going to be done in Egypt. But we tried many different approaches, and we're going to try many different approaches in different settings, as well.
AMANPOUR: The State Department just had an Arabic Twitter account, a Farsi Twitter account. This week, what do you expect to do with that?
CLINTON: Have you -- have you been following the Farsi Twitter account?
AMANPOUR: I'm following it all.
CLINTON: Excellent. Excellent. Well, what we expect to do is to be communicating through the new social media with literally millions of people around the world, because we want them to hear directly from us what our policies are. We want to use it to rebut some of the falsehoods and accusations that, unfortunately, are made against the United States.
But mostly we want to be in the mix with this incredible, young, energetic population that is seeking the same rights to express themselves as young people in the United States seek.
AMANPOUR: Thank you very much.
CLINTON: Thank you very much.
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AMANPOUR: And this week, Secretary Clinton called on governments around the world to respect and promote free access to the Internet. And when we return, we'll take you inside the revolution with the anonymous online revolutionaries who launched a movement.
