Compare and Contrast: A Woman With Pneumonia Goes to The Local Clinic
By Susie Madrak Wednesday Jul 01, 2009 5:00pm
From Coalition of the Obvious, via Avedon, this useful "compare and contrast" on national health care systems. It especially means something to me because a few years back, after my unemployment ran out and I was working an hourly job, I developed pneumonia and couldn't afford to pay for a chest x-ray. I'm glad I'm still alive to tell the tale:
During my time in Venezuela, I developed a cough that went on for three weeks and progressively worsened. Finally, after I had become incredibly congested and developed a fever, I decided to attend a Barrio Adentro clinic. The closest one available was a Barrio Adentro II Centro de Diagonostico Integral (CDI) and I headed in without my medical records or calling to make an appointment. Immediately, I was ushered into a small room where Carmen, a friendly Cuban doctor, began questioning me about my symptoms. She listened to my lungs and walked me over to another examination room where, again without waiting, I had x-rays taken.
Afterwards, the technician walked me to a chair and apologized profusely that I had to wait for the x-rays to be developed, promising that it would take no more than five minutes. Sure enough, five minutes later he returned with both x-rays developed. Carmen studied the x-rays and informed me that I had pneumonia, showing me the telltale shadows. She sent me away with my x-rays, three medications to treat my pneumonia, congestion, and fever, and made me promise to come back if my conditioned failed to improve or worsened within three days.
I walked out of the clinic with a diagnosis and treatment within twenty-five minutes of entering, without paying a dime. There was no wait, no paperwork, and no questions about my ability to pay, my nationality, or whether, as a foreigner, I was entitled to free comprehensive health care. There was no monetary value connected with my physical well-being; the care I received was not contingent upon my ability to pay. I was treated with dignity, respect, and compassion, my illness was cured and I was able to continue with my journey in Venezuela.
This past year, a family friend was not so lucky. At the age of 56, she was going back to school and was uninsured. She came down with what she thought was a severe case of the flu, and as her condition worsened she decided not to see a doctor because of the cost. She died at home in bed, losing her life to a system that did not respect her basic human right to survive.
Her death is not an isolated incident. Over 18,000 United States residents die every year because of their lack of prohibitively expensive health insurance. The United States has the distinct honor of being the “only wealthy industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage”.(8)
Instead, we have commodified the public health and well being of those live in the US, leaving them on their own to obtain insurance. Those whose jobs do not provide insurance, can’t get enough hours to qualify for health care coverage through their workplace, are unemployed, or have “previously existing conditions” that exclude them from coverage are forced to choose between the potentially fatal decision of refusing medical care and accumulating medical bills that trap them in an inescapable cycle of debt. And sometimes, that decision is made for them. Doctors often ask that dreaded question; “do you have insurance?” before scheduling critical tests, procedures, or treatments. When the answer is no, treatments that were deemed necessary before are suddenly canceled as the ability to pay becomes more important than the patient’s health.(9)
It is estimated that there are over fifty million United States residents currently living without health insurance, a number that will skyrocket as unemployment rates increase and people lose their work-based health care coverage in this time of international financial crisis.(10)
Already this year, 7.5 million people have lost work-related coverage. Budget cuts for the state of Washington this year will remove over forty thousand people from Washington Basic Health, a subsidized program which already has a waiting list of seventeen thousand people.(11)
As I returned to the US from Venezuela, I was faced with the realization that as a society, the United States places a monetary value on life. That we make life and death judgments based on an individual’s ability to pay. And that someone with the same condition I had recently recovered from had died because, according to our system, her life wasn’t insured.
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Isn't that the place with that horrible socialist dictator? Well, we sure don't wanna be like them! We're 'Murkins!
the remains of dead Americans.
Don't We!
because the Capitalists will never permit it.
that money isn't the most important thing in life, especially American life. That could lead to all sorts of uncomfortable questions, like 'Why do we spend so much money on useless military crap?' or 'Why do we only get two weeks of paid vacation per year?' or 'Why does the minimum wage keep me below the poverty level?'
Questions like these are uncomfortable to the rich bastards who run this country and their collaborators in government because they might cause Americans to rethink their primitive spiritual culture and brutal class system. The rich people might lose power and money.
Therefore, you will continue to die because you can't afford basic health care.
don't forget one of the easiest ways to control people, make them subserviant, and demoralize them is to make sure they are in as much debt as possible.
Economic chains are much stronger than steel.
I could have not put it better than you, NoOneYouKnow.
I am an American, it is my RIGHT to die on the curb outside of the hospital WITHOUT being disturbed.
It is my right!
Unless of course I am darkly complected in which event I may be arrested for SOMETHING first. Or maybe shot.
---
Speaking of being shot (satire advisory):
By Michael Lind
here
On a related note ..
BlueGal posted a spot-on and hilarious vid in Open Thread a few nights ago.
From HAARM (Healthy Americans Against Reforming Medicine), created by SEIU:
HAARM.org - Fire Care
But .. the sad thing is .. this is EXACTLY what is happening in upscale neighborhoods all over America - private fire departments, catering to those willing to pay for more immediate response, better equipment, etc.
If I recall correctly it led to the destruction of the city.
the negativity published about venezuela's "dictator" as well as how horrible socialized medicine is. having lived in canada, i can tell you the bunk we hear in america is one huge propaganda ploy of vested interests of our health care industry.
..and I concur that most of what Americans hear about our health care system is pure propaganda. As is the general fear-mongering about Socialism, which goes back to Stalin's time. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out that Stalin was a monster not because he was a Socialist (he really wasn't, you know) but because he was a totalitarian. They are not the same thing, though most Americans have been brainwashed into equating them. Never mind health care, an effective public education system would also be very nice. Maybe if your public was better informed the corrupt political system and everything else might fall into place.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the way, on Canada's birthday a gift for the rest of the world. How typically Canadian is that?
Canadian HIV Vaccine Ready for Human Tests
The anti socialist propaganda began in 1947 with National Security Act, the invention of the National Security Agency, the CIA. the Military Industrial Complex and the Perpetual War.
The Soviets of course, had just been our allies against the Nazis, they would not open their markets to us and it was a source of immense irritation.
The NSA was done to keep the war bucks flowing. They have flowed non stop to this very day. The 2009 'defense' budget request was $515.4 billion. This is without the blackbox numbers and the $100 billion 'war' funding supplemental. The entire thing is probably closer to a trillion.
The anti social propaganda continues unabated, it is to maintain the necessary illusion of some sort of deadly foe.
Though recently of course it has been Muslims since the Communists went bust.
Our war profiteers bankrupted them.
Fast forward, now our war profiteers and our banksters will be the end of us.
How curious that in less than a year we have spent trillions on the banksters but have no universal health care.
Where is the outrage?
It looks like our Government sold us like whores for testing the drug after the animal trials but what the hell. ROF
At least we are getting some type of attention.
You can't have that sort of medical system here. People would tell their scumbag bosses to go fuck themselves since they wouldn't need a job to have health insurance. We cannot have the servant rabble do that!
But in 1994 when I was taking my last Spanish class there on a program from my university, another student broke his foot playing soccer with some local kids (and then aggravated it playing basketball). I had to take him to a doctor's because his Spanish level wasn't very good. I thought it would be an all day thing, but we were taken care of in under an hour, and I don't recall it costing that much. Even back then as an ignorant college student, that was kind of surprising, and I knew nothing like the American system.
I also had fun "mistranslating" what the doctor was telling us in front of my fellow student.
In Los Angeles, They treat you, then drop you off at the bus station. On the side walk. Then they run like hell.
I've seen that on news programs, its a practice that goes on in many places. Here in my town, they just push the people out the door and offer to call a cab -- on the ex-patient's dime of course -- if they don't get moving off the property.
Chavez is a disgrace. If you actually think he is 'what the left should look like' then you are very misguided.
People are leaving Venezuela by the millions. Chavez has control of the media, the courts, and congress.
More importantly, SOMEBODY has to pay for that healthcare. It turns out that RIGHT NOW it is actually many of you (americans) who are doing it. How? Well, because of OIL prices (that US pay) that allow Chavez to do all that. (and the good doctors that he buys from Cuba).
So yes. He is a horrible socialist dictator, and we FOR SURE DON'T WANNA BE LIKE THEM.
...that you're being sarcastic.
I suppose you don't believe in a peoples right to choose their own leaders and have freedom of political expression. That doesn't exist in Venezuela. However good their health system may be, you could say the same about some other certain countries that existed in Europe during the 30s, it should not overshadow the fact that Venezuela is controlled by a mad man.
Here's some propaganda from the extremists at PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hugoc...
WHAT!?!
To put things in perspective there is no government that is 100% accepted by all the people, and there are no policies that don't do some people more good and some people less good or even some harm. As an example I lived in Vancouver BC during a time when federal immigration policy brought a quarter of a million people into the region in a single decade. The resulting demand for real estate was highly beneficial to estate agents, developers, and property owners - but if you were living in a rental you got screwed. This negative impact on some people was not due to any malicious intent by the Canadian government, but was inevitable and predictable.
Vested interests in Venezuela and multinational corporations who were exploiting the people and resources of Venezuela before Chavez came to power undoubtedly got hurt in the pocketbook by some of his policies. Naturally those interests want to spread the notion that he is a vicious rabid dog. That doesn't mean that we should suck it up like it was mother's milk. Maybe you should instead take such with a modicum of skepticism.
Yes, I have a brain and I do know that Chavez really chaps the ass of oil industry, etc. Hugo Chavez knows this as well, and uses it for his own gain, getting sympathy from people like you (and formerly myself) while empowering himself and throwing his peoples freedom under the bus.
So, just as you have encouraged me to be skeptical, I encourage you to watch the PBS Frontline video I posted and do some independent research yourself, or more importantly, read some 20th century history, because we have seen this all before.
..nobody should be. And you may have noticed that many progressives are as critical of Obama on many issues as they were of Bush. But two points should be brought into consideration.
First, there are credible reports that US-backed attempts have been made against Chavez's life - which would put him on a long list of Central and South American leaders who have been thus targeted. So a reaction that might be considered somewhat paranoid is understandable.
Second, to get back to the original thrust of this thread - the more you paint Chavez as a bad leader the more disgrace falls upon the USA that you cannot provide health care to your citizens equal to that provided by this 'mad man.'
And there I was thinking I had seen it all regarding intellectual dishonesty...
A small country with good health care does not mean a free pass for their tyrannical leaders. Is that better?
You are a dupe of the Imperialists.
Admit it!
how does winning elections = tyrant? How does doing stuff according to his country's laws = tyrant?
Answer: When the corporately owned US media says so, and when people whose only source is the same, believe it.
I'd like to hear YOUR answer.
... and since you are the one bringing the nazis to this fray, you lost.
Next.
Nazi's? Where?
Oh, yeah, in Idaho.
Not to worry, they won't be running Venezuela any time soon.
OK! Comparison with Adolf was an absolute non-starter. THAT SAID, Hugo Chavez has a Caudillo streak that is a burden to his people; I challenge anyone to tell me otherwise. The way he screwed up Venezuela's state oil by replacing very qualified experts by political cronies just because said experts told him that pumping up oil too fast and neglecting necessary reinvestment would jeopardize the long term revenue prospects is the mark of an intemperate, "I'm the BOSS, damnit!" mentality that can't be good to the country as a whole. And don't get me started about his attempts to stay in power by subverting the democratic process while keeping the appearances of it.
That said, credit where it is due: when you've seen as Chavez saw first hand, how horrible the consequences of lack of health care for the poor can be, you try to do something about it. And there is no doubt that compared to what people had to go through say, 20 years ago, there has been biiiiig progress down there.
Chavez is the duly ELECTED President of Venezuela.
The war on Democarcy, here
That is to say, OUR war against THEIR democracy.
"I suppose you don't believe in a peoples right to choose their own leaders and have freedom of political expression. That doesn't exist in Venezuela."
Are you insane?! Let's get some actual facts straight. In Venezuela, in 1999, the public voted in a national referendum, which the right wing (who controlled Venezuela for decades and followed "free market" nonsense at the expense of the majority in the country and still control and own the media) tried to violently stop. It passed with over 70% approval. What was IN the constitution? Many direct rights WE, in this shining democracy, where we elect people who ignore what we want and pass legislation for the benefit of the elites in this country, do not and probably never will have. If 35% of Venezuelans want ANY politician recalled, at any time, it goes up for a referendum. It was used once, many of the signatures were proven to be fraudulent and Chavez still respected the votes and let it go through. It failed, but it was used. If 10% of the people want a law overturned that is passed by the government it also goes up for a national vote. Does the US have this? During Chavez's recent decree period, which was the end of the world according to the crap media we have in this country, it was lowered to 5%. What can WE do about NAFTA? Be politicians to listen to us and not lobbyists. Yay for democracy. What can we do once we elect someone like Bush and no longer want him in office? Nothing. Not only can Venezuela elect someone, they actually have a system in which the general public has direct control. They have control over community councils (which are given funding for and increasing amount of services and are under little to no direct control), the government has funded what is (by far) the largest cooperative movement in Latin America, has prioritized health clinics, schools, roads and other social services.
Here's an analysis of Venezuela's constitution if you are interested:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?contex...
A Chilean polling firm Latinobarometro, which is non partisan and well respected, showed that Venezuelans are now the 2nd happiest with their democracy in all of Latin America. They also have seen, by far, the largest increase in happiness with their democracy than any country since Chavez's election in 1998. In the 2008 poll, Venezuela ranked 3rd in happiness with political and civil democracy. Venezuela was ranked 1st in happiness with economic and social rights, 16% higher than the second ranked country Uruguay, and lead overall in 7 major categories.
Regarding term limits: Uribe in Colombia changed the constitution to allow him to run again. Dozens of people are now in jail (in addition to having connections to drug cartels and death squads) because of the corruption involved in this process. He wants to do it again. Are you concerned about democracy in Colombia? Do you say a damn thing about this? Doubt it.
really? where are your emigration statistics from?
explain how this is factually so. I will needs links of course. From credible sources as well.
"really? where are your emigration statistics from?"
oh how convenient it is that just today Newsweek showed a report on this:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/204835
"explain how this is factually so. I will needs links of course. From credible sources as well."
Now. It would be best for you to look for that information, so you can convince yourself of that. However, I would suggest you find information on RCTV (which turned into TVes after Chavez refused to issue the renewal license to RCTV.
Courts and judges are known to be in Chavez' pockets:
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUS...
http://www.miamiherald.com/884/story/1038279....
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_...
So I suggest you inform yourself about Venezuela and Chavez.
Newsweek is kind of a epic fail as a source -- kind of MSM slanting you see with the conservo-set. Reuters, a load of no names and questionable bias, hmm Miami Herald..."Analysts say..." "according to recent reports..." "critics and independent analysts say..." "Venezuela's Roman Catholic bishops (now THERE'S a group w/o an agenda)..." "prominent Venezuelan nongovernmental organizations complained..." "opponents say..." "Many analysts believe..." Epic fail there too. No experts by name, no way to determine the basis of the studies, what they were trying to prove, who funded the study -- you know, things that would indicate the bias of the people used as sources. However, I'm fairly sure they're supping off the same mug of koolaid you are (got that from context)
Anyway enjoy your stay. Looks like it'll be a short one.
"Venezuelan voters strengthened his power in February by approving a referendum sought by Chávez that would allow him to seek another six-year term in 2012. If he wins, he could run for reelection in 2018 and every six years thereafter."
"Anyway enjoy your stay. Looks like it'll be a short one."
So, someone comes on and makes a valid point, gets called a troll by the regulars, posts the requested sources and STILL gets this treatment?
You'd better have some thick skin to post on this blog! Reminds me of the first time I dared post on RedState.com, is that what this is now?
Its a hotbed of gun loving terrorist nazi freaks.
And I am being polite in describing them thus.
And if you check my comments, I don't beat around the bush with calling people trolls.
B, when I ask for a source, I mean something with attribution. "Some say" "Sources say" and "people complained" are proof of nothing.
So if you asked me for a source, and I sent you to Drudge Fox or Newsmax, you'd stfu and not call me out on it? The US media is equal to or greater than those idiots when it comes to reporting on left leaning leaders in South America due to the influence of the major land owners there, Us corporations like United fruit. Hell are you even aware that United Fruit got the US to overthrow an elected Central American leader in the 50's?
Jacobo Arbenz of Guatemala. The 1954 coup was arranged by DCI Allan Dulles while his brother John Foster Dulles was Secretary of State and both had large holdings of United Fruit stock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_PBSUCCESS
This Chavez guy reminds me of the Bush family crime syndicate 2001-2007. I like to think of those care-free happy days as "fascism on steroids."
U.S.A.,U.S.A.....
Then you are drinking th GWB/MSM koolaid. The only people that think this guy is a criminal are the rich assholes that have been ripping off the country and its people for decades.
That would be the right wing assholes and industrialists from the USA, working on a GWB policy -- lie about Chavez and undermine his governance.
I though you were against his policies. That's what your name says.
Sarcasm Miss Kitty, sarcasm.
If he's a socialist, which is what "what's his name" said above, then by definition; he cannot be a fascist in the mold of the Bush crime family.
I am such a hot head!
I can be sarcasm impaired in the written word...
"However, I would suggest you find information on RCTV (which turned into TVes after Chavez refused to issue the renewal license to RCTV."
Let's talk about RCTV, and similar incidents in THIS country. Have ANY idea how many times in US history papers were shut down not for violent coups that they supported (like in Venezuela with RCTV) but just for the ideas they championed? Lincoln did it during the civil war. Uribe in Colombia does it like he breathes, and claims it is justified because they are supporting "terrorists". Similar with Garcia in Peru and Calderon in Mexico. What do you say about those incidents? Nothing, because you’re not told to.
In 2002 there was a coup. RCTV, amongst other stations, openly supported the coup, to the point that when the coup was carried through (this was, after all, removing a democratically elected government and replacing it with a military dictatorship that dissolved all branches of government and the central bank), one of the coup plotters went on national TV and said, "I must thank Venevision and RCTV" for their help in supporting the coup. Another coup plotter said, "We had a deadly weapon: the media". This is on film, you can watch it in the documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", which is free online. When the coup first started RCTV showed misleading footage making it look like Chavez supporters were firing on people. Unfortunately for them, another group had a camera which showed that people were actually running from snipers linked to the coup plotters. This is, again, in documentary, which is free online. During the coup, when events started to turn towards Chavez (thanks to the people, who were not lead by Chavez since he was out of the country and placed in a jail cell), RCTV started showing cartoons and soap operas.
What would be the proper punishment for CNN if they openly supported a coup, financially and militarily supported by Iran, that removed our "democratic" government and replaced it with a dictatorship that would at least in part answer to Iran, and one of the coup leaders went on national TV to THANK CNN? Probably, treason, which by law would be a death sentence. What did Chavez do? He waited about five years for the license to run out, so the station had to go to cable. My god! Stalinist! A station supports the removal of a democratically elected government in favor of a military dictatorship, is thanked by the dictatorship for their help on national TV and they are, five years later, forced to go to cable.
Please, YOU educate yourself on RCTV and try for a moment to be objective. In place of RCTV put CNN. In place of the coup plotters in Venezuela put Iran, Cuba or any other country and in place of Venezuela and Chavez put the US and Obama or another president we actually voted to office and have the same incidents occur.
Less than an hour as a member. I'm not Chavez fan per se, but this is a hit and run troll.
no. I'm not a troll. I'm an avid reader of c&l. I never had any intentions on commenting. But this post hit a nerve. Whenever people start lauding Chavez, who is a POS.
I'm latinamerican myself (not Venezuelan), but with many Venezuelan friends, and I'm an avid reader as well of Latinamerican newspapers. If you read spanish, read www.eluniversal.com. That's a good Venezuelan newspaper, and inform yourself.
Now, if you want to dismiss me as a troll because 'i have less than an hour membership' that's your prerogative.
Thank you for that info.
However...you exaggerate it greatly, claiming millions over tens of thousands. And the estimate that only one million people left so far. No a good sign, but you did misrepresent the facts. Also, Newsweek is not a credible source anymore, as they've shown their true biases. But thank you for the other sources, I will investigate.
And for the time limit...it's happened far too often...they pop in just to spout nonsense. I apologize.
El Universal is owned by Andres Mata who was a supporter of 2002 coup leader Pedro Carmona. Carmona himself was a puppet of the CIA which backed the Coup.
When the Coup was defeated Carmona headed for Miami
Not a savory cast of characters to throw in with.
The war on Democarcy, here
That is to say, OUR war against THEIR democracy.
You sound exactly like one of those keen eyed bushy tailed CIA sponsored types. you have all the talking points and the fau outrage against humanity.
ALL the media in Venezuela is owned/controled by Chavez!!!
Or did we drop that false talking point and move back to the next one already?
That was his first post.
indeed my first post. it should not matter unless you never had a first post or unless you like ad hominen attacks.
Some more links in spanish about "brain drainage in venezuela":
http://sdpnoticias.com/sdp/contenido/2009/05/...
http://movilidad.universiablogs.net/la-fuga-d...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/america_latina/200...
here is some info on the venezuelan government denying people are leaving:
http://www.abn.info.ve/noticia.php?articulo=1...
Now, it seems miss_kitty that you will not believe any links that I post and you are going to find an issue with all of them. That's fine. That's why I strongly suggest YOU do the research (if you are interested, of course). If you don't like newsweek, or reuters, or miami herald, you may want to believe wikipedia. Check the story of RCTV and TVes. If not, then check spanish speaking sources.
bothered to do, and that involves not believing what the right wing owned media in this country says.
And yes, when you put up links that are not credible, filled with 'some people say' 'authentication,' then you aren't giving A CREDIBLE SOURCE, and I will call you out for it.
Yeah, RCTV fomented riots against the legally elected govt of the country, caused a coup. By lying. And he gave them several chances to no defame his activities in a way that would cause uprisings. The Supreme Court of Justice (Tribunal Supremo de Justicia or TSJ) upheld the decision by the National Telecommunications Commission not to renew RCTV's broadcast license.n He didn't shut them down, he didn't kill the owners; he refused their license renewal, which is part of his job -- assessing a situation and moving in the best interests of the people who elected him.
And I need to be able to UNDERSTAND them. articles in Spanish French Or German aren't really going to resonate loudly here.
So until you learn "some analysts say" or "critics complain" is not proof of anything, you're a big old waste of my time.
well, apparently you would really love someone like chavez as your president and that frankly is sad.
you probably would find ok then to have Obama shut down FoxNews just because they attack him (and the left) and many times the slander them. Thankfully in this country there are checks and balances and no one person has that much power.
It is indeed a waste of both yours and my time to discuss this, but it seems to me that you need to learn many things. Among those things you need to learn is the definition of 'dictator'.
Here's another link for you:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dic...
Maybe that's another source that you think is biased (but hey, at least it is in English).
I already knew it. The Mirriam Webster Def is thin. A dictator is someone who seizes power. With the military.
Actually, the coup that the TV station started, that was a US supported right wing MILITARY power grab. Now the guy who would have come out on top after that would have been a dictator.
Winning an election by popular vote and working within the laws of his country does not a dictator make.
I'll say it slowly Chavez. Was. Elected. He works with his legislature to get stuff passed.
GWB was much closer to the def of a dictator (Not elected, breaks his country's laws to further his own agenda, etc etc) than Chavez has ever been -- since the only people that define Chavez AS a dictator are people who make shit up.
The title does not fit the facts of his tenure, regardless of how you want them to.
ok, the fact that it was in english was apparently not enough. I'll explain it to you.
A dictator is one who holds complete autocratic control. It.does.not.matter.if.one.was.elected.
For instance, Hitler was elected and was a dictator because he held complete control.
Chavez, was elected (after he tried to grab power by a coup btw), and he has managed to get control of congress and the courts.
He has managed to change the constitution multiple times, and the last time was to be able to be reelected indefinitely.
Now, if you really believe that GWB was closer to a dictator than Chavez, it is kinda sad.
To be an extremist is bad either in the left or in the right. Think about it.
do you really think the intellegent informed people who come to C&L regularlly are going to pay any attention to the kind of falsehoods you're posting?
thanks for ad hominen attacks. you don't even know what I am, and you immediately call me right wing trash?
Is that the way you argue intelligently?
That's sad.
Are you still trying to get your point across?
If you can't do it by now, somethings wrong.
And by the looks of it, it's not ALL of these Other people you seem to think you can persuade.
bye
fine. bye. a big difference between you and I is that I never called anybody any names.
l8r
Believe wikipedia? That's snark, right?
Venezuela has oil, they can charge whatever the market will pay for it. Venezuela is also entitled to do whatever it sees fit with the profits for it such as universal healthcare. It is certainly a better use of its revenue than say.. a massive military for example.
The tone of the statement implies there is something wrong with Venezuela paying for its health care system with oil revenues. There isn't. In fact, I'd say it is a very good thing.
heating oil at knock down prices. Those staving freezing Inuit that Palin wouldn't lift a finger for? Chavez bailed them out and has been for a couple of years, until prices dropped too low this last winter...
So let's see... the guy wins all of his elections and recalls and initiatives; he gives away heating oil to citizens of a country who hate his guts at the behest of our govt and media, and his citizens have better health care than we do. He IS one scary motherfucker.
Way to be a brainwashed tool, dude. You may want to start an aggressive re-education of yourself. Start with Democracy Now and some Christian Science Monitor, maybe some FAIR.org, The Nation and Counterpunch. The 'Hate Chavez the dictator' meme is paleo and inaccurate.
luxury boats for the ultra wealthy. Using petrodollars for helping citizens seems to be some sort of socialistic ploy to enslave them or something.
It is the capitalist way, anything else is uncivilized...
is that poor people get health care that way! Scary!!
Because how could that horrible Cuban commie country have produced good doctors? Isn't Castro throwing everyone in jail for not saluting him and the commie-state and starving little children and grandmas too?
And I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Chavez and his people own that oil and he can sell it anywhere he wants, but hey, if the US is so charitable to drive SUV's to fund his healthcare plan, then good on him right?
All I know is that from what I see, I'll take the horrible dictators who will take away my right to own a gun and a Hummer so me and my kids can live.
BTW, before I got on the dole to go back to school when a single parent, my three kids all had health problems that went undiagnosed and generally unknown -- my son had a very serious potentially life-threatening hernia, my daughter needed glasses and was having headaches and couldn't participate in school because she couldn't read -- until I was able to afford an eye check up on Medicaid. How about that? And that doesn't even include the three years that I was able to have access to a doctor if my kids got ill.
When my daughters were teens I was back to work again with no health insurance, thank god for planned parenthood and their free teen girl health screenings and health services, that's all I can say.
... or just like the millions vs. tens of thousands, those are "minor" details to you?
well, if you are so into 'details' then you should know that dictators can be elected. they way they got into power does not prevent them into turning into dictators.
and the "millions" did not turn into tens of thousands, but into singular "million".
displaced Venezuelans ended up? That is about one of the largest and quickest migrations (per capita) in recent history.
Details indeed.... Oh, and by the way, a democratic republic can not have a dictator. And Venezuela hasn't changed their political system yet, so again... details....
All the Chavez nonsense misses the point.
A woman got treated in Venezuela for pneumonia and is alive because of it. A woman in the US couldn't afford treatment and is dead.
It's about healthcare and medicine.
Anything else in these comments is just a smokescreen to keep people from thinking about healthcare and medicine.
The anti social propaganda against Chavez is the same anti social propaganda used against true health care reform in this country.
Or any social development in this country.
The right wing wants to extol the virtues of individuality and personal responsibility.
Those are the buzz words they use. You are individually and personally responsible for your own health insurance (if you are not denied) but never mind that the insurance may not actually cover you when you get sick.
You are suppose to be too stupid to figure that out.
Oh, and they forget to talk about personal responsibility when they STEAL billions upon billions in their corporate schemes and swindles.
THAT is what an Oligarchy is about.
When they use scare tactics and promote the Repug/CIA talking points, and try to demonize Chavez and Venezuela in keeping going the immoral but profitable US system.
They are quite a chilling example of what is wrong with a lot of the US system, profits before people every time.
Mansions and wealth secured with the blood of innocents.
That is ridiculous. People are NOT leaving Venezuela by the millions. The only people who ARE leaving Venezuela are Jews who hate Chavez for having open dialogue with Iran. There are people, however, leaving Colombia for Venezuela.
Nor does Chavez have control of the media and the courts. There are "opposition" TV stations like Globovision and RCTV that run anti-Chavez propaganda 24 hours a day that make Fox News look fair and balanced.
The "horrible socialist dictator" Chavez has been reelected twice in transparent elections, has withstood referendums sponsored by the opposition right, and of course, the failed 2002 coup that was closely tied to senior officials in the US government. He is more legitimate that George Bush ever was. You may have an opinion on Venezuela's health system, one that covers everyone in Venezuela, but you certainly don't have much in the way of facts.
are more likely the descendants of the nazi refugees/war-criminals that fled Germany in 44/45. Destination Florida and Washington of course.
The media loves to talk in absolutes.
For example, they'll just claim that Cuba and Venezuela are just evil and there are no exceptions, as if all the people living there are just different and evil and have nothing good to contribute to society.
In American "intellectual" culture, you are not even allowed to think that there may be something good in South America.
It is a fact that Cuban doctors are well known throughout South America for their expertise.
Also, American "intellectual" culture won't tell you the fact that the US is largely to blame for the instability and lack of progress (up to a level). Why do I say this? Just lookup US "intervention" in South America and you will see a trail of unjust American terrorism.
More to the point, I speak with people from many different countries on a daily basis and they all agree that the American healthcare system is the most inefficient thing they have seen.
Sure, there are quite a lot of bad things that the governments of Cuba and Venezuela and their leaders can be criticized for. However, what about anything bad that the US does? No one cares about these facts because the US has all the military power in the world and people in suits commit terrorism rather than people in caves or third-world countries. In the US, we just claim "we are the greatest country ever, period" and don't even take a look at the facts.
So Castro and Chavez get a free pass because we effed up so badly in SA? These guys are not liberals. They don't agree with you. You are tools to them. The cold war is over and Bush is out of office, let's hold ourselves to a higher standard!
Canada has good health care AND they get to vote for their leaders! What a concept! While we are gushing about the importance of life over the dollar let's remember the importance of freedom as well, that's not just a Republican issue, y'know.
I do not think that Chavez or Castro are good people.
Neither did I ever think that Ahmadinejad was a good guy.
However, these people are small crooks compared to bigger ones like the ones that reside in Washington. The crooks in Washington have more power and a long history of terrorism.
I don't seek to downplay Chavez or Castro or Ahmadinejad's wrongdoings. I am not saying that they are good people. As far as I know, I don't think they're angels at all. But, neither do I think that Bush, Clinton, or Obama are angels.
They're all corrupts SOBs.
Republicans hate freedom! They are FASCISTS!
Unless it's the unfettered ability to let the rich rape and pillage everyone else - then freedom is just dandy!
they get to vote for their leaders! Not only that, Chavez has defeat several recalls, and coup against him was defeated by the people.
The cold war is over, yet you are the one who is not aware of it. Castro does not equal Chavez. Chavez was elected. Yet your haste to throw them both into the commie bucket equals a cold war mentality. Listen to yourself.
And if you want to see a true tool, look in a mirror.
That poster on the door is creepy stuff. Read nikolaya's comment and do some independent research on Chavez for your own sake if you haven't already.
we don't have to like him, Venezuela in general, or their form of government to realize they still have a better system of providing healthcare to all their citizens.
You show me that independent research that shows MILLIONS leaving Venezuela and then we'll talk. Again, no Chavez fan, but I ain't falling for anymore troll BS....give me some FACTS and not blathering generalities.
this is not one day old:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/204835
n/t
that is true!!
if you can't read spanish it says:
"seven years... for now"
the guy just changed the constitution so he can be reelected indefinitely.
The constitution was changed in an ELECTION.
Facts before fiction.
Their poor ickle minds cannot handle reality.
Their criminal economic system is crumbling, they are soon to be unemployed and grubbing for a living like the rest of us.
Enjoy their pain as they realize its time for real change soon.
If you lost your job and health insurance and couldn't get any coverage, then developed cancer and was stairing at a death sentence at the age of 38, would he suck worse than the American health system?
That is the question here. If an asshole like Chavez can offer universal care, why can't the great and power murkins get it?
We all know why. Because the rich, greedy, evil bastards who run this country, want us to keep their corporate welfare checks rolling in. While these same politicians (SOB'S) call us "socialists" for wanting to be sure our kids won't die if the republicans outsource our job, and our insurance is lost.
Chavez is probably not a perfect human being.
If one exists I have yet to observe them.
It is the class war that Chavez is fighting and so far winning for the poor of Venezuela.
The anti social propaganda against him is from the FORMER Oligarchs of Venezuela and the PRESENT Oligarchs of the USA.
As for the class war in this country, we the peons are LOSING.
BADLY
Is nasty Chavez going to march his army up into the Amerikan heartland and slit all our throats !?
you know nothing of Chavez, except the shite the MSM feeds you.
Nicolaya is a MSM lazyass like you. Can't go to DN! The Nation, Counterpunch, CSM or CJR. it's easier to be spoonfed the pablum propaganda and bullshit of the NYT, WAPO, and various and sundry rags and teevee of ill repute.
nicolaya has no sources with names, no proof of his claims...nor do you. "This guy sucks" is not an argument, nor is it proof of anything...it's just a poorly formed impoverished opinion of yours. You formed it based on shitty info.
If you are referring to me Miss Kitty, I in fact do not watch any MSM shows, and haven't for years. Personally, I wouldn't wipe my rear with the Washington Post, but I do read the N.Y. Times for Krugman, Herbert, Rich, Collins and sometimes Dowd.
I do like the Nation a lot, Counterpunch and many other liberal sites.
My point was directed at the people who are attacking Chavez. If he is as big an asshole (and frankly, I could care less one way or the other if he is or not) as the conservatards proclaim, then how come he does such a much better job at insuring everyone has healthcare?
Why can't the U.S. corporate fascist's do a better job than someone they chastize as a "monster?" That was my point, ridicule and sarcasm aside.
But you are right about one thing. I don't know as much about Chavez as you apparently do.
Frankly, after reading Naomi Klien's Shock Doctrine and what Milton Freidman and the U.S. corporate fascists did to many South American democracies, I have not been able to stomach learning much more about their political scene.
and I sorry sorry sorryed above. I can see why you'd think I'd follow you down here, after I didn't get you were being sarcastic. But I didn't. Our comments line up. I was replying to Cronie3.
I am trying to stop getting worked up over stuff but the whole "Chavez is a creep" bullshit makes me crazy still
Our Congresspersons and Senators love to perpetrate the myth that America is great. They can't open their mouths in public without singing the praises of "America -- the greatest country on Earth!!!"
Hogswaddle and bullcrap.
This single issue - Health Care in America - proves that we are not. In fact it is absolute evidence of just how bad America SUCKS.
They get a "gold-plated, diamond encrusted" insurance plan and Americans get nothing.
*
I think America's Health Care system is the best. Survival of the Fittest (or richest) is what made America great. Our version of Darwin Care should be spread throughout the world. That way the few fittest or richest can have even more of the world's wealth not just America's. After all it is truly American to spend more per capita on health care than anyone else and have the worst outcomes. America will be perfect once 95%+ of the people are serfs for the landed gentry
Sen. Bernie Sanders and the Coalition of the Unwilling
where greed and stupidity are king.
Why is it that the GOP that is so nauseatingly preachy about being pro-life and pro-family values is opposed to making sure that people have access to healthcare? Are they so stupid that they don't realize people die and families are irreputably damaged by lack of medical care, or is that they just don't care?
To survive we the poor have to be subservient, that is the secret of power, they enjoy the good life, we survive on crumbs that trickle down from the high table.
True power is the power of life and death, 'money' is just a semi physical manifestation of the ability to control people.
If you are one of the elite 5%, offering money and trinkets enables the full exploitation of control over every person you encounter.
Want somebody to tickle your feet, rub and fondle your naughty bits, sell their kids to buy food, sell out their neighbours, the only problem and question is how much.
where Senators can be purchased and the lobbyists with the most money can shove any meaningful reforms right up our arses.
NY Times: Insured, but Bankrupted by Health Crises
I have several friends from venezuela who agree that Chavez is a mad man piece of shit. Just because they have great health care doesn't make the man great.
How many countries has he attacked lately? His government has the wrong priorities (helping people) instead of helping US companies make money, so therefore he must be insane.
that's telling. The wealthy are the ones that hate the guy. He's making them pay taxes and shit.
I haven't seen any comments here calling Chavez great. Why is the only choice between "great" and "mad man piece of shit"?
Those with limited minds live in worlds of limited choice.
This or that, us or them, black or white, right or wrong, not a shade of gray to be seem anywhere.
How come Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years for ripping off billions of dollars, but Health Care Insurance CEOs are allowed to sit at the table discussing Health Care Reform?
because those supposed to be regulating were getting rich off of Madoff. There is no way Madoff was working alone on this. I have even read reports that Madoff was tied to intelligence agencies. Our government is controlled by Wall Street.
A whole cabal of people working at the fraud.
If a few outsiders knew and were warning the SEC for ten years that Madoff was too good to be true, what does this say about the 200 plus people working for and with him. Not to mention the overseas brokers funneling monies to him.
of red herring regarding what a bad chap Chavez is.
The fact that our system sucks compared to the one ran by a supposed "dictator" is not any better. If anything, it makes even more shameful for us. A f*cking tin pot dictator at least is human enough to understand that healthcare is a human right. So what does it say about our business elite, who would rather have us die than allow us to affect their bottom line?
he was elected. He's won every recall and initiative against him. That's a precluding factor for 'dictatorship.' He is a legally elected leader of a socialist democracy.
;-)
Frankly I am tired of some people in the USA use the term "dictator" to refer to any foreign leader who they may or may not agree with (or he or she may not like us). It is people who throw freely regardless of the applicability terms like "dictator" or "sexist" or "racist" etc that help dilute the power of those words, and diminish the suffering of the real victims.
At least we never had a dictator during the Bushco fiasco, GWB was a drunken puppet. ;)
It just stuck out at me, the quotes were invisible...
I already posted this in the video cafe commenting on Ed Shultz but as a comparison it works here.
My parents live in the UK. Last year my mother had a quadruple heart bypass. It didn't cost her a penny. The medications she has to take for life don't cost her a penny either as she is retired, so gets free prescriptions.
Sure she didn't get a private room with her own TV......
I will point out that my parents paid into the national insurance when they were working as all working people do. But every man woman and child is covered. There is no co pay for seeing a doctor or any procedure.
Out of work due to illness, disability or laid off ?...you have full healthcare (and free prescriptions).
Those between 18 and retirement age who are working and not claiming benefits do have to pay for prescriptions, which are charged at a fixed rate (about $15). So if you work you have to pay the co pay, but your children's or stay at home wife's prescriptions are free. Also if the pharmacist can sell the prescribed drug over the counter for cheaper than the prescription fee, he is legally obliged to.
It has it's problems, waiting times for procedures depend on need, urgent cases go first and pretty timely. Someone in their 80's will be low on the list for a hip replacement, but then someone here in their 80's without insurance will not be on a list at all.
I am married to an American surgeon... anyone claiming there are no waiting lists in our "wonderful" system is full of shit. She is a good specialist, and she is literally booked solid for months. Try making an appointment for a good specialist on almost any non-emergency procedure without waiting times comparable (if not worse) that those "awful" socialized medicine systems.
Frankly, I am appalled by some of the politicians in this country who can talk about "waiting times" with a straight face. Any system is going to have waiting times for non-emergency procedures... there are more patients than doctors, laws of supply and demand don't get magically void by the "wonders" of the American private sector when it comes to medicine.
We need to change the restrictions on becoming a doctor.
Doctors per capita world here
And it truly takes a special kind of mind to lie so baldly about "wait times" and "freedom" and "choices". I call it the "Conservative State of Mind".
I suffered an asthma attack 2am sunday morning, was driven to the local ER room, we spoke to a person, and I got immediate treatment.
Then spent the next six hours on oxygen+meds bored and sat watching the usual late saturday night parade of drunks and domestics coming in and being treated.
No waiting and collapsing/dieing on the floor as happens in some US hospitals.
Domestics were coming in drunk?
Why Jeeves...how could you?
but face it Americans...your healthcare system has absolutely no interest in looking after you!
Keep coming up with reason after reason to poo-poo anything other than what the insurance companies & politicians are willing to offer you (on a stick)...and you shall forever be struggling to avoid total bankruptcy in order to pay for what many of us, in other countries, are freely given on a daily basis, because healthcare is a basic human right.
Grow up...if you think you become sick because you are weak & have failed...or because someone, in power, has told you that...you need to wake up...how long shall you be the fodder for the greedy?
I've written so many comments on how utterly happy I am with my Canadian healthcare system. I've also lived in the States,so I have no anomosity whatsoever towards Americans, they are just like us in fact, to the most degree.
If you all cave in & accept any healthcare that has anything to do with insurance companies, then you very well deserve what you get!
To keep back the advancing hordes of compassion and universal human dignity.
The right to extort people's last dime from their estate on their death bed, and even from beyond the grave. Illness bankruptcy, unemployment death, nothing keeps an accountant/lawyer and their armies of debt collectors from their/our monies.
The state also keeps a jealous guard on its monopoly on pain and pain compliance, all usable pain relief medicines are only available through the state or its agents. They allow only toy pain relief over the counter.
The markets cannot solve this problem. If it could, we be wouldn't be paying twice as much per capita as most industrialized nations for health care. The only solution for our health care crises is a single payer system. The public option is a sham.
For more info on a single payer - watch
http://1payer.net/what-is-single-payer-health...
"...as a society, the United States places a monetary value on life."
I would go even further and argue that we live in a society in which a monetary value is placed on everything.
But this is what the health care debate really boils down to. It's about the billions in profits the insurance companies are not willing to part ways with, even if it means death for thousands of people.
What's going on in this country with regard to health care is an absolute crime. How do we justify being the only industrialized nation not providing universal health care? We finally have a real opportunity to do something about it, and seems Congress wants to dither around, and the Dems act like spineless worms. 72% of Americans are in favor of a public option for crying out loud, yet the Rethuglicans and insurance companies are still running the show. I say ALL health insurance companies should be non-profit, and that's only for starters.
Sounds like a set-up looking for a punchline.
As a flight Att., I injured my arm in turbulence on a flt from JFK-London. I went to a hospital close to our hotel, walked in, was x-rayed & seen by a Dr. given a sling & medication & when I tried to pay, (knowing that my company would re-imberse me for the work-related injury ) the hospital staff said NO PAY for emergencies, You're in England.
Also, while living one of the smaller islands in Fiji, I ended up with pheumonia (rainy season), I was x-rayed, given antibiotics .. NO PAY.
An elderly retired teacher, friend of mine fell & fractured his hip in Paris,France. His condition was pretty bad. had surgery & hospitilized for 2 weeks.. Because he was not a French citizen & did not have coverage he was charged & his cost for all that was less than one here has to CO-PAY. If he had obtained a policy for "visitors" it would have covered ALL.
& on & on.. there is something terribly wrong with our country. "Profiteers come between us & our Dr." I'd prefer our USA gov. bad as it can be. it's still better. It runs an army .
This is obviously a liberal communist-loving person who wrote this piece of trash! And look at the photo if you want proof of her lies! Anyone can see the long line of people waiting for treatment! I'll bet they've been there for.....days! Unlike in our Best System In The World! Wake up, America! Listen to True Patriots like James Inhofe and John Boehner!
:)
In the debate with naysayers over the costs of a public option, why does no one raise the point that healthcare is so expensive in America because Americans have no ethical quibbles with people in the HIC getting filthy rich off of the misery and death of others?
There are so many hands in the pie, reaching in to grab their own over-sized profit from the illnesses of fellow humans. Someone needs to say "enough" to the yachting-class doctors, hospital corporations, hospital execs, insurance execs, etc. who look to the afflictions of their brothers and sisters to create enormous personal wealth.
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