Iraqi Prime Minister Warned Obama About Photos: 'Baghdad Will Burn'
By Susie Madrak Tuesday Jun 02, 2009 10:00amThis sounds a lot more plausible than the previous explanations about why Obama won't release abuse photos. But I find it hard to believe there are any Iraqis left who don't know the stories about what was happening to detainees:
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama reversed his decision to release detainee abuse photos from Iraq and Afghanistan after Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki warned that Iraq would erupt into violence and that Iraqis would demand that U.S. troops withdraw from Iraq a year earlier than planned, two U.S. military officers, a senior defense official and a State Department official have told McClatchy.
In the days leading up to a May 28 deadline to release the photos in response to an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit, U.S. officials, led by Christopher Hill, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, told Maliki that the administration was preparing to release photos of suspected detainee abuse taken from 2003 to 2006.
When U.S. officials told Maliki, "he went pale in the face," said a U.S. military official, who along with others requested anonymity because of the matter's sensitivity.
The official said Maliki warned that releasing the photos would lead to more violence that could delay the scheduled U.S. withdrawal from cities by June 30 and that Iraqis wouldn't make a distinction between old and new photos. The public outrage and increase in violence could lead Iraqis to demand a referendum on the security agreement and refuse to permit U.S. forces to stay until the end of 2011.
Maliki said, "Baghdad will burn" if the photos are released, said a second U.S. military official.
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that's just fuckin great.
There's a hell of a lot of fucking complexity in my world. The Prez, according to some, must have none!
What's the word? Naivete!
He MAY have a point.
There's a huge difference between sort knowing or figuring a thing happened and seeing the proof of it. Not just Iraqis but Arabs and Muslims all over the world would have gone balistic.
This is just one of the conundrums BushCo has left us with. It's also a big part of why there's so much reluctance to prosecute our home grown war criminals or even to convene a "Truth Commission". The "Arab street" wouldn't wait for the outcome. Extremists would whip them into a frenzy with each new revelation.
Obama , the democrats and republicans just keep finding more and more BS to cover their a.. about prosecuting these war crimes..
By committing these crimes and then covering them up , we are recruiting new terrorist for Bin Laden and company....
They are trying to force down our throats that , People can get away with these crimes because it is too gruesome to tell or show people anything about it..
Why did we show all the war crimes against Hitler & company then persecute the people committing the crimes for over 60 years..
Never believed that Obama would throw around so much BS... But ,,, If I have paid attention to what Hillary said about Obama in the president primary that Obama was just a person with a speech , I would have seem that she nailed him..
Emanuel and Obama have no intentions of keeping any of his major campaign promises...
He or she is saying there are things we don't really, really know. And, to pretend we do, makes us fucking idiots.
Are you one?
.
George W. Bush should be so happy to be a free man, today.
.
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Nancy Pelosi should be so happy she took accountability, "Off the Table".
.
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Barack Obama should be so happy to be the President of the United States of America, excusing his predecessor's' poor judgments, and in some cases, laying cover...
.
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America should be so happy with the "CHANGE" they did not receive.
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to make up for the sheer weight of your profound unhappiness,
oh embittered, angry, anti one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigMpQ5j89s
..in Baghdad on the day they release the photos. There would be some justice in what might happen next.
--the Iraqis would run out of shoes.
to take advantage of this situation.
Yeah I really don't see how Iraqis may not be aware of how we have treated them in all this time. How different would it really be, I mean there have been quite a few bombings already in spite of "teh M0sT aW3som3 surge EVAH".
Also, when did they announce a withdrawal? I thought it was just a troop reduction, yes, I refuse to call it a withdrawal until you know we actually withdraw.
Whether one agrees or not with the President on this Photo release matter, this nasty bullshit is another one of Bush's babies. Once Obama exposes the pictures of Bush and company's murder, torture and rape handiwork and the death rate of the troops accelerate again...everyone will blame the "naive" new President.
The whole situation is maddeningly complex thanks to the foolish actions by the Bush/Cheney administration, made even worse by our re-electing them in 2004. I remember having several conversations during the '04 election trying to figure out how Kerry could possibly successfully wind things down in Iraq because of the hand he'd been dealt. "Old" Europe had been alienated by Bush's cavalier treatment of their concerns and perspective prior to and during the war. We'd lost almost all respect from the Arab/Muslim countries thanks to our invasion of Iraq, mishandling of the aftermath and Abu Gharib. How exactly would Kerry be able to change the dynamic without going to Europe on bended knee.
I haven't agreed with all of Obama's decisions, particularly choosing not to prosecute the guilty parties for war crimes, but there's nothing easy or enviable about what he faces.
about dropping all this "realpolitik", the "real world" take on self-governance and demand that our elected representatives, including the President, act on principle -- a.k.a., ethics/constitution/laws -- and take the fall-out as the price one pays for rising above the punditry and self-loathing?
there is NO excuse for surpressing evidence.
there is no excuse for continuing to cover-up crimes against humanity.
there is no excuse for obama's actions in continuing the cover-up.
..providing we accelerate the withdrawal of troops from Iraq and reduce it to the same number as was in Iraq prior to W's, well, our invasion, of Iraq (not that I was "pro-invasion", all I ever wanted was to GET OBL D or A.), appoint the Special Prosecutor so we can finally put this nightmare to an end with convictions of the war criminals (I'm not against war when necessary but since everyone knew that this was a plot to rape Iraqi oil fields, I have to call W on it.) and finally, put the war criminals in jail for their crimes. They may have saved the world with torturing people and the world could praise them for that, moments before they are marched in front of a judge to be tried, convicted and thrown in jail for that torture. -
I keep hearing about Bush committing war crimes this and war crimes that. List the accusations, accusations that would actually hold up in court. Provide proof. Stop being weak and emotional and live up to the notion that you are the intellectual party.
..war crime! That invasion thing, no WMD's, no Imminent threat, War Crime. Hiring companies who electrocute soldiers, War Crime and war profiteering. Sending our troops into Iraq with inadequate equipment, War Crime. If the man has nothing to fear, there'll be no problem unless Obama takes "Innocent until proven guilty" out of the Constitution which would be impeachable.
those aren't war crimes. you are emotional. get a grip and then come back with some real war crimes. (hint. you won't find any)
What the fuck evidence YOU got, that proves war-crimes weren't committed by all levels of the bush administration?
Comin in here and spewing your rightwing troll bullshit.
So far you've denied torture as a war crime, you've also denied a war of aggression as a war crime.
Have you even bothered to look at the Geneva Conventions?
Perhaps you should, so that when Bushco's crimes are actually the topic of the thread you could intelligently address the issue.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constituti...
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/25/spr...
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/karon/arti...
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/18/...
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
http://kucinich.us/impeachment/articles.pdf
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/se...
(Sorry for last one, only link I could get to fast that wasn't broken).
Tue, 06/02/2009 - 11:42 — Chris Yoder
Sounds boring.
I'd rather pick at buffalo wings than a Luis Buñuel movie.
"I'd rather pick at buffalo wings than a Luis Buñuel movie."
►[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEOdISz1Vew ]...That's for those ribs ya gave me awhile back. :-P
We never had any business being in Iraq in the first place.
Double your dosage...troll.
1. Bush admits that he authorized water boarding
2. Water boarding is torture
3. Torture is illegal by treaties ratified by congress and hence by our constitution as valid as any US law.
Guilty.
you are missing one key point. water boarding was ruled by the courts as not being illegal. is there a disconnect here that i am not seeing. I am not in support of waterboarding but you have a major flaw in your logic. (hint. you are emotional)
Give us a link.
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Dear Chris Yoder,
Thanks for the compliment, "... live up to the notion that you are the intellectual party". But where does that leave you, but in the dust?
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come on. an intellectual can base an argument on actual fact and not in fantasy, which is all i see on this website.
Why don't you just go the fuck away? And take your "water boarding was ruled by the courts as not being illegal" bullshit nonsense somewhere else where facts aren't important.
Links? Got any links? We want links? Show us the links. Which court???
.
Dear Chris Yoder,
If what you see is based in a fantasy...
... How is it us, here, who are mental?
p.s.
Eat sh!t,
Background Information on Waterboarding
http://usiraq.procon.org/sourcefiles/backgrou...
IT'S A
W-A-R
CRIME
.
Considering your name. I guess that you are pacifist. Why are you defending a man who lied to get backing to start an illegal war of aggression and commenced a torture program?
can we blame you like we blame O'Reilly if the release of the pictures causes some batshit Iraqi who lost a loved one in captivity to take out a humdred people with a bomb?
.
blames a right wing media figure for fanning the flames of right wind extremists when it erupts into violence.
Or go on having your cake and eating it too.
so, you equate me with a media figure? *money please*
so, using the same rhetorical-sledgehammer, does that make you a fan of evidence suppression and censorship if it shows illegal acts by americans? such as covering-up civilians deaths?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6HIiWCh7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFh09hF6qlA&fe...
Just because I decry your rhetorical excess does not imply I agree with the acts or responses to acts that created the predicament. My argument is with you and your actions.
me and my "actions", eh? LOL... i have only seen 6 pics from the new set, but i don't recall being in any of the pics. i have never tortured anyone, to the best of my knowledge.
i said "there is NO excuse for surpressing evidence", and this is what you have a problem with, that was "my action", as you pounded out.
in the future i will check in with king ricky to make sure my opinions (see, what ricky calls "actions") adhere to your "standards". ;)
But you have proven the point made here often that words can provoke.
Think what photos can do.
i did say "a bit more that that", i also said:
"there is no excuse for continuing to cover-up crimes against humanity.
there is no excuse for obama's actions in continuing the cover-up."
thanks for the 411 on that
more "actions", more ricky-not-approved
opinionsactionsphotos, like words, do provoke. so does injustice. and so do cover-ups.
No excuse for baby killing.
No excuse for...
Go ahead. Enjoy eating that cake you have there.
was it?
your semi-mocking post sure seemed to be the exact opposite. as in, your support for suppression, a support for censorship.
but, thanks, i like cake. enjoy your egg and crow sandwich.
Give it a rest. "Ricky" is a post-modernist, post-structuralist, factoid-spewing, cutesy, "all knowledge is relative", "I have an insight that is de facto of merit" class clown. In a word, he is an adolescent.
And if he bothers to reply to this, then he deserves to be pilloried.
from when last you pilloried me and my entire generation.
"Welcome to the post-modernist (a.k.a., naive realism, anti-metanarrative, anti-scientific method), narcissistic world of many of the baby-boomers and their spawn. They gave us Tricky Dick, Reagan, Mulroney, Thatcher, Watson and, of course, the archetypal fascists, the Bush cabal. Tired, yet??" Sec-Humanist
Game, set, match.
.
Impressionistic evidence (i.e, self-flattering observations and assertions) can be problematic but a strong case can be made that the baby boom generation (born between circa 1945 and 1962, give or take) is a colossal failure when compared to its parent's generation with respect to contributing to the public good. In Canada, that generation put into place universal health care, the Canada Pension Plan and an egalitarian public school system. They also appreciated music with a melody, museums and aspiring to excellence."
Sec_Humanist
If only I had been born in Canada.
We can't be naive to the fact that we are either there forever, or we vacate and allow the power vacuum to do what it may. That power vacuum will include alot of violence. The longer we deny this and attempt to support and build up the Maliki government is only prolonging the inevitable.
And the longer we delay...the worse the violence is likely to be.
..don't you think that someone would do that anyway? At least if we show the world that we will punish the criminals, that may mitigate the violence. I don't think there's middle ground; too many people want the truth and the truth is we tortured people. The torturers, those who authorized and those who tortured need to be brought to justice NOW. If we acted like o'reilly, we wouldn't be taking any blame for anything.
the man's got a point.
..which one?
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to write that from the comfort of your home. The people who live in Iraq and would get caught up in the violence and the US troops might have a different perspective. And I realize you could make a case that we owe it to the people of Iraq to release them and let the truth out. I can see both sides of the question. I'm not sure myself what I would do if I were Obama but I don't think its black and white the way you make it out.
for your lack of understand a delicate situation.
There is an excuse and he gave it above. It is just not a good one.
There is a way to release the photos and completely avoid a backlash from the Iraqi public. Just turn over all the perpetrators to the Iraqi justice system.
We trusted them to fairly administer justice to Saddam Hussein so why not with other criminals?
..Good idea!
The entire Muslim world, especially those already anti-American would lash out.
this is what causes american and corporate officials concern:
"The public outrage and increase in violence could lead Iraqis to demand a referendum on the security agreement and refuse to permit U.S. forces to stay until the end of 2011"
that is what they care about. concern about public safety, the well-being of everyday iraqis has hardly been a concern (see, unemployment, neoliberalism, electrical/infrastructure failures), and it is merely an excuse now. the real concern is that the iraqis will finally unite in their anger at "american" occupation, torture, corruption and imperialism
"How can I help Mr. President?"
"As you know, I've been made a member of a very exclusive club of Villagers..."
"Yes, congratulations."
"... and as part of the club, it is my job to ensure that none of my fellow Villagers should ever be held accountable for anything - even the most heinous of crimes."
"Of course, Mr. President. That is how we do it in the Third World as well."
"But here's the thing. There are some Americans who have not completely bought into the hero worship that I have cultivated. They want answers to some very, er, uncomfortable questions."
"Well, kill them."
"There are too many, and I don't quite have that power... yet."
"Well, how can I help."
"There are photographs which graphically depict torture, rape, and mutilation of prisoners."
"Ah, the proud tradition of Abu Ghraib..."
"Well, I need an excuse to keep them hidden. Can you come up with something?"
"Well, I could say that "Baghdad will burn," but no one would believe such nonsense. It's not the pictures that are the problem; it's the torture."
"Don't worry about that. I give a great speech."
"Hey Nouri, seems like you and my stupid ass, blood drinking predecessor have a fucking problem."
"What can I do to prevent my hanging Mr. President?"
"Well Nouri, thanks to the criminal Dumbya and your fucking negligence I can't release these photos because if innocent decent American soldiers are killed and another Iraqi civil war erupts once they're exposed, I'll be seconded guessed by fence straddlers like Fiver."
"OK Mr. President, just cover my ass until your troops have left...please."
"Whatever...I'll see you and your master at the fucking Hague, Nouri."
"And don't forget it. I want my friends protected, and there is only so much that my feckless and blind worshipers can do."
"By the way, what did you mean about the troops 'leaving'? As far as I can tell, there is no indication whatsoever that the occupation is ending anytime soon."
"That's a matter of definition. You see, we have redefined the word "city" so it doesn't include any area in which we want to stay - including Baghdad. Don't worry, the troops will be there for a very long time. After all, all I have to do is 'promise' and millions of idiots will actually think I've done something."
"You are my creator, but I am your master; obey!”
http://www.english.upenn.edu/Projects/knarf/C...
Obama underestimated this quagmire...totally correct. To expect him to simply walk away without a responsible plan is silly and will create a tsunami of Monday morning quarterbacking. Remember "As reponsible leaving just as reckless entering."
Think whatever you wish...Obama walked into this house of shit.
... he sprays cheap air freshener to cover up the stench while millions applaud the "fresh, clean breeze."
And why is it that the occupying army can't leave?
Go ahead, give the Bush/Obama public explanation: "We're militarily occupying the country for its own good."
Or try the real Bush/Obama explanation: Iraq has lots of oil.
I wish this matter truly was as simple as you make it out to be.
Follow the law.
There is nothing new here. It's only complex because Obama doesn't like the probable results.
The law requires the release of the photos; the law requires the prosecution of war criminals. Of course, the law also required telecoms to be held responsible for illegal spying.
How did that turn out?
And don't believe that this is the first time a President withheld information from the American public whatever the reason.
Guantanamo is still open; the Obama Justice Department is repeatedly making bad faith arguments to cover up Bush crimes; Obama has advocated "military tribunals" and preventative detention; Obama's Senate allies just passed a bill preventing the release of any photographs from 9/11/01 through the end of Bush's term on the the Sec.Def.'s say so and nothing more; Obama has authorized the construction of an Iraq style "embassy" in Pakistan...
And you're right about Presidents withholding information, but we have a bit more than 18 minutes of audiotape at issue here.
...information as the President. I choose to wait to condemn Obama as a Bush crime family conspirator until I have proof beyond doubt.
Doubtful.
But I do admire your presumption of innocence. Too bad Obama won't extend the same concept to non-Villagers.
Complexity and rationalization made it with each other and had a kid.
They decided to name it Lie.
and therefore don't care who is trying to clean it up, no matter how hard it might be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbDiujuv6rQ
I don't see the problem. Iraq is always burning and its insane Islamic cultists are always yarking off, so why should the United States care when the full truth about the Bush regime's Christianic terrorism needs to be exposed?
True, the world already knows that the Bush regime are Christian terrorists and war criminals, and true the photographs and documents wouldn't really show us anything we don't already know, but the full truth MUST be fully documented least we have some other insane Christian terrorist regime steal elections and seize power.
The Islamic terrorists in Iraq should not be controlling or dictating the on-going exposure of their Christanic colleages here in the US.
trumps the authority of the American courts and our Constitution's separation of powers. Please give me a break.
of powers been trumped? Explain.
to turn over the photos and the prez says no because some chum in iraq says things may get out of hand. Tough shit, turn over the photos.
Maliki said, "Baghdad will burn" if the photos are released, said a second U.S. military official.
And American values will burn if they don't.
..
I'll throw picture on the flames to smother them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tK6aQS_H0
Obama suspend habeas corpus in the US for the sake of Bagdad's well being.
suspension of habeas corpus and the release of photographs for public consumption and exploitation are identical. I see your brilliance at once,and must turn away from its radiant warmth.
released, correct oh all knowing master of time, space and dimension? Does one's status as a knee bound sycophant for the military and/or unfettered executive power change the answer?
much less what the first or second answer was, the second question is irrelevant. Yet another example of your brilliance.
Answer 2, yes.
I am sure Maliki has a load of other reasons chock full o' bs that the likes the unitary executive legion of idiots would swallow like a baby bird guzzling worms that would justify in their hollow minds littered with illogic and canine like unquestioning allegiance why the executive branch could neglect to obey clear and direct court orders.
Hopefully this helps, son. Getting off your knees opening your eyes and closing your mouth could help as well.
and that decision has now been appealed. The executive branch is fully within its right to do so. And, if, in so doing, they avoid violence for a time, then I salute them. The pictures are not going anywhere.
and the current court order remains then the executive branch must obey the court and release the photos, notwithstanding what the military or Maliki think.
for Holder to appoint a Special Prosecutor to begin war crimes investigations.
Actually the Bush regime could all be handed over to the people of Iraq for trial prior to the full disclosure, that way the victims of the Bush regime's war crime atrocities against humanity in Iraq could at least be aware that justice will eventually be had for the Bush regime. That would mitigate the legitimate anger in Iraq after the photos are disclosed.
You want to hand the previous administration over to a 3rd world country to be tried in their justice system? What about the costitution? Oh wait, we wrote their constitution. Uhh, Okay.
Yes, hand them over to the surviving victims. That's justice.
..Nazi Death Camp guards home to stand trial for their war crimes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8mEMqiNhc
This is actual footage of the democrats wrangling with republicans over the release of photos.
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9927/ostri...
PS. The republicans successfully re-branded the democrats as the Ostrich party.
The difference between these pictures and the ones that were shown previously is that many of these are of a much more sexual nature. Women and men in custody being raped by US soldiers and women humiliated in various ways. This material is much more flammable, especially in the eyes of a Muslim.
What are our options here?
I don't know what I would do if I was Obama...this sucks.
He's gonna be damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.
He appealed the court ruling, thus buying time. We keep withdrawing our troops until they are in fortified zones out of Iraqi cities. He still has the photos when the Supreme Court rules.
What exactly, do whining folks who have to see the phtos now lose by that turn of events? Their lives? I doubt it. Yes he is damned, but by a bunch of thumb sucking homebodies.
Then it's better to do the right thing. That means not sweeping it under the carpet. It is always the best option.
If we can't face the nasty stuff, and we hide it, who are we? Hypocrites. Cheap shells. Shoddy human beings. Fakes. Beneath contempt.
You're right of course.
With all this crazy shit goin on...I' was a bit stressed yesterday.
This is Obama trying to appease everyone else. For all of Bush's faults at least he had a hint of a backbone.
It smells like debacle.
.
...same thing to Mr. Yoder.
but that seems unfair in retrospect no matter how much it amused me at the time.
The Amish don't like their picture taken?
"The Bible tells them that it is wrong to have a Graven Image of yourself. They interpret this to mean that having a photo of oneself is a sin and therefore forbidden."
[ http://blog.growingupamish.com/?p=103 ]
Fuck off troll!
It's that very "backbone" of bush jr that got us into this fuckin mess to begin with.
bush failed, his policies failed, neo-CONservatism failed, YOU failed.
Now, take your failed cowboy diplomacy and kindly STFU.
By doing everything Dick Cheney told him??
Or by delegating every decision to his underlings and then blaming them when it all went terribly wrong. Yeah. That's some backbone.
No he didn't. He was a wimp that let himself be ruled by others.
fake Texas swagger (attempting to cover up his MASSIVE insecurity) for backbone.
Most goopers still make that mistake.
Your normal analysis falls flat this time. It's not that most people know what happened (I doubt that anyway), but how Iraq is a powder keg of energy just waiting to explode. People there (and here for that matter) would be incensed and would take to the streets and riot.
The difference is that when citizens rise up in outrage in Iraq, the corporate sponsors of the Bush regime's war crimes won't be able to seize Iraq's oil. When people "rise up" here in the United States, they parade around in little circles playing homo paddy caek and pretending they're "making a difference."
I have quite mixed feelings about releasing the photos. At first, I wanted them released....I do want Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld et al to be exposed as to what they did.
But I also have heard these pictures are much more flammable, as Kald points out. Look at what happened over that Danish cartoon about Mohammud...a cartoon, mind you.
I did see the head of the ACLU a couple of weeks ago on the Chris Matthews show say that he would be ok not releasing the photos if an impartial judge made a decision on whether or not prosecutions/trials should be made based on what that judge saw in the pictures, although that could have just been talk.
As someone above pointed out, this is another Catch-22 situation the Chimp left Obama. Bush left us in so many quandaries....it's unconscionable what he did.
One other issue, however, is I think those photos will be leaked anyway, one way or another...I'd bet money on it.
So the solution is to not print the cartoons?
I think we ought to release the photos. We did terrible things and we've got to deal with the consequences.
> We did terrible things and we've
> got to deal with the consequences.
We didn't do it, a cabal of Christian terrorists bent on trying to seize control of Iraq's oil did it.
Saddam had his oil people use some pretty damaging pumping practices, so that the oil that's there isn't all that worthy of pumping.
However, I do think the invasion had a lot to do with oil: Saudi, Kuwaiti and Iranian oil. The US closed up its bases in Saudi Arabia due to serious objections(read: domestic terror) from the King's subjects. Because of Iraq's central position in the region, it's got strategic value as a place to base military forces.
I strongly agree that the Bush administration needs to be held accountable for those photos and what was done in those photos, but I do fear many more would die, and many of those could be innocent Iraqis.
In the case of the cartoons, hindsight is 20/20....I don't think anyone had any idea the release of those cartoons would have spurred such violence. I think we do have a pretty good idea that releasing those torture pictures just might do so.
Obama has a very difficult decision here.
Is it just me or does this situation remind anyone else of the scene in Team America where Commander Spotwood tells the hero the fate of the entire world rests on giving him a blowjob?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynAzBVsWXUI#t=...
;-)
That scene certainly makes more sense than anything going on right now... when the going turns weird...
The Bush regime committed the same war crimes as Slobodan Milosevic did, and since Milosevic is in prison, either the Bush terrorist butchers should also be in prison else Milosevic should be released.
Slobo died in prison a few years ago.
As an aside, I was working in The Hague the night the helicopter came, bringing Milosevic to the prison in Scheveningen.
The next day, a Dutch guy was photographed holding a sign that said "Send him to Texas".....because of all the executions Bush had presided over in that state!
I didn't know he had died in prison. It was also horrible watching Nixon and Kissinger being allowed to die of old age while walking freely among us. Both of these monsters also needed to be in prison for their war crimes.
Hopefully Bush, Rice, Powell, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and all the rest will eventually be dragged in front of the Hague.
He died in March 2006 in prison....and, in fact, died while the trial was going on. Therefore, there was unfortunately no verdict.
I'm sure there is still a young woman out there he is convinced he can bed with his funny accent and tales of world acheivement. I would hate to see him quit trying now.
looked remarkably mobile last night on Fareed Zacharia's show. At least for a dead guy.
"A picture is worth a thousand words is an adage from an old Chinese proverb ".
It refers to the idea that complex stories can be described with just a single still image, or that an image may be more influential than a substantial amount of text. It also aptly characterizes the goals of visualization where large amounts of data must be absorbed quickly.
NOW USE YOUR IMAGINATION!
PS.What's been the biggest story since 5/31/09 to today?
I know.
Obama could pass a law that makes it illegal to distribute material that depicts torture, even if it is a picture of real torture.
That way, use of the photos in trial will be illegal. He takes a strong stand against torture while indirectly pardoning those that did it AND suppressing any possible future anger towards the United States.
--as a snapshot of time. It matters not that the Iraqis must surely know our politico-military abuses as revealed in the unreleased batch of photos. The broadcast of these photos would burn unfettered from cellphone to cellphone and ignite a fresh and sustained violent response, just as the anti-Muslim cartoon did some months back.
It seems that many people don't believe that "there are any Iraqis left who don't know the stories about what was happening to detainees". In societies like Iraq there is very little access to real news. Rumors take its place. It is easy to imagine that the release of the photos would fuel rumors that the abuses were recent and continuing, thus leading to more violence. Think of a nation hooked on a street rumor version of Fox News.
If the Iraqi police had photos detailing the systemic abuse of American GI's, and that was their only proof and recourse in court, perhaps their only ticket to freedom, would you feel the same way about releasing the photos?
This has nothing to do with whose side is one on. I hope that eventually Bush, Cheney and company serve time in prison for war crimes. But causing more violence in Iraq doesn't seem to be a solution to the problem. Don't think that only American soldiers would be endangered by the release of such photos. Rumors can lead to riots.
I think the Iraqis have every right to know what's been going on, in their country, by the foreign occupying forces. To deny them that right is to steal their truth.
I keep thinking back to The Joker's line from The Dark Knight:
"If you tell everyone that you're going to kill a hundred people tomorrow, no one will panic when it happens because it was all according to plan."
His essential argument was that, as long as you warn people in advance that something horrible is coming, you can minimize the panic by announcing what's coming in advance.
And if the Iraqi people were braced for the worst in advance, told to expect some truly awful images, but tell them you are releasing them because your administration doesn't want to "keep secrets" from the Muslim World, you could release the photos and minimize the response afterward.
There is a difference between movies and real life.
for all those that prefer to hide and suppress evidence, and that have a hankering for american exceptionalism, please let joe lieberman and lindsay graham know you support them and their detainee photographic records protection act of 2009 bill.
maybe someday the executive branch will be able to suppress any evidence of american wrong doing, and, if the pesky court gets in the way, a compliant congress will be sure to step in and help close down any govt transparency!
No wonder he does not want the photos released. His city would indeed burn unless we got out. WE SHOULD NOT BE THERE! The people of Iraq have every right in the world to want us out. Look what we did to their nation!
is to release the phots at the same time as the announcement of the assignment of a special prosecuter and subpoenas for Bush, Cheney, Rice, Gonzales, Ashcroft, Yoo, Bybee, Addington, Rumsfeld, et.al. for their crimes. This story is just a smoke screen. The real reason he doesn't want to release the photos is the outrage here when the masses can no longer deny the reality of the torture would necessitate the war crimes trial that he doesn't have the stomach for.
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