Poll: CA Voters Reluctant To Change State Budget Process
It's astounding to me, that California voters still remain so largely uninformed (or indifferent) about the root causes of the state's yearly fiscal crisis. Those who want to change things have an uphill battle:
Reporting from Sacramento - Backers of an overhaul of California's government, who hope to leverage disgust with Sacramento into support for changing how the state raises taxes and spends money, have a difficult path ahead, according to a new poll of California voters.
Major segments of the electorate see the state's problems as the product of unrestrained lawmakers driven by special interests to waste taxpayer money, and reject arguments that structural issues with the state's Constitution and government institutions are to blame.
Voters don't want the tax code overhauled in the ways that many fiscal experts promise would tamp down the wild revenue swings that have led to a constant state of budget crisis in California. They don't want the Constitution changed to allow a simple majority of lawmakers to push a budget onto the governor's desk, as most other large states allow. And they don't want the state to touch Proposition 13 property tax restrictions, even if residential property taxes would remain strictly limited.
The poll results come at a time when large numbers of Californians report significant economic stress as a result of the recession.
More than a third of those polled said they or a family member had lost a job in the last year. Nearly half said they or someone in their family had been hit with a cut in take-home pay, and 57% said their investments or those of family members had dropped by more than a quarter.
The recession's impact is particularly strong among blacks and Latinos, with 57% of Latinos and 41% of blacks in the survey saying they or someone in their family had lost a job as a result of the recession. Among Latinos, 21% reported a home foreclosure, a number more than twice the overall rate of those surveyed.
Nearly a quarter of those polled said they or someone in their family had lost healthcare coverage as a result of the recession. And 27% said they or someone in their family had put off or canceled a medical appointment or prescription in the last year because of the cost.
The findings come from a new Los Angeles Times/USC College of Letters, Arts and Sciences poll. The survey of 1,500 registered voters from Oct. 27 to Nov. 3 was conducted by two nationally prominent polling agencies, the Democratic firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosner and the Republican firm Public Opinion Strategies. The results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 2.6 percentage points.
The fact that the poll surveyed registered voters could have affected the findings regarding the recession. As compared with all adult Californians, those who are registered to vote are, on average, older, less Latino and better-situated financially.
In other words, this is the "I got mine, the hell with everyone else" crowd.
I guess Californians have a high threshold for pain.
Or perhaps they think they are worthy of a federal government bailout.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Most Californians aren't even from California.
They are from the mid west and moved there in the 70's, 80's and 90's.
They brought their weirdness with them and when they got there they decided they were more Californian than those of us born there.
In the process of trying to out California us they embraced some really stupid shit.
Apparently they have not learned how stupid that shit is just yet.
in Los Angeles and other parts of CA, I would think your comment is crap. However, your comment does have validity. Some of the most down to earth real people I know were born and raised in California. The real or fake acting assholes are more times than not from other states.
...and had read it here for the first time without first hand experience I would have thought it crap too.
But sadly it is not.
I wish that it were.
But to be fair to those poseurs, wanna be's and too California for their own good transplants: Prop 13 was native born.
.............in their own toxic juices, they deserve it.
Those of us who would like to see this changed really appreciate your support.
I think it should put on a ballot and voted on.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
The good folks in CA will sleep in the bed of their making.
No one can save them from themselves.
Maybe the Federal government will bail them out?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... = stupid!
someone who doesnt know and doesnt wanna know...is "teh quintessential" stupid.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
I'm a third-generation Californian and I'm not very good with my money either.
Then you cannot possibly know that Californians-middle class and poor Californians-already labor under an impossibly heavy tax burden. We pay every kind of tax imaginable on everything. Its very expensive to live here but so many still do because the job market in many places is still better than more tax-cost effective states.
My family has been wanting to move to Oregon for years but there's NO work.
Yea we voted in a local city sales tax increase a couple years ago, then the financial crisis and CA ups their another 1%. So now we pay nearly an additional 10% on everything we purchase. gas is $3.29 where I live.
When you look at taxes as percentage of income, it's not that bad compared to other states, like 39th out of 50. Oregon is up around 13th. No sales tax there, but I hear the property tax is horrendous.
source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_tax_levels...
I surely like to see the way the legislature work changed, nothing can get decided as it is.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443...
CA comes in 6th per capita
CA comes in 11th on this wiki chart. Not 39th.
Please don't stay."
That used to be on every border sign as you entered Oregon. We need to pull it out of retirement. The place is overrun with Californians, Texans and people from every other damned state.
:P
that has historically spent so prolifically on special interests, it's any wonder why people are saying "i've got mine, to hell with everyone else." That's exactly what people do in tough times. You take care of yourself first, your family and your friends. Where do you think the extra money "for everyone else" is going to come from? The magical money tree? Seriously?
...there is a magic money tree!
It's called The Federal Reserve banking corporation...
alas...It won't make money for California though...
It makes lots of money for the Federal govt and banks though...
If California plays it's cards right, they just might get the Federal gov't to give them some "magic money"
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
California hasn't been playing its cards correctly or it wouldn't be in this mess. It can go bankrupt as far as I'm concerned. Then maybe investors propping up it's ridiculous spending practices will think again before buying California bonds. Which in turn will mean the legislature won't be able to spend money it doesn't have.
I have no sympathy for banks or for California. It can get it to together, or not. And states did get some Federal money in the stimulus package passed this year, California got a chunk too. Maybe consider the ridiculous retirement benefits state and local employees get in that state, compared to the private sector. And very expensive for the taxpayer.
in the inland empire, there was a ton of teabagger types, Blacks and Latinos included, when the war was being drummed up in early '03, they were goose stepping all over the main drags carrying signs
California to me is a poster child for living beyond one's means. I guess the whole state is too addicted to that behavior to care about the space around them crumbling.
Keep up with the Joneses on steroids.
It must be so awesome living in the rest of the oh so pious states, eh?
Could not agree more! I am lifelong native, never had a credit card EVER, drive a crappy car and I AM NOT ALONE!! By any stretch! I think alot of these posters have watched too much "The OC"
I said a ton, meaning most of my observations from the inland empire, my fellow co-workers, native Cal'ians...not at all.
I just never seen people so greedy before, it was stunning.
People who worked at Mac & Dons driving Mercedes, shit like that.
.
...that issues IOU's (giggle/snicker)
to know the first damn thing about "the root causes of the state's yearly fiscal crisis".
first state to go bankrupt...last state to figure it out!
California (ain't got shit) on Alabama or Mississippi!!!
(in the financial department)...I'm sure the universities are a little better though!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
these are from a 2004 resport but I doubt much has changed with Red States taking in more federal funding than they pay in taxes.
Of the states receiving most in federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid:
Mississippi ranks 4th taking in $1.84
Alabama ranks 8th taking in $1.61
California is not on the list. In fact, California is on the top 10 list of States receiving less federal funding than they pay in federal taxes per dollar.
Califonia ranks 9th taking in $.81
source:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/...
make that parity for all states?, why not?
Especially when the south is taking all of the new car assembly plants and paying the workers peanuts, they should give them nothing.
Mississippi doesn't.
Mississippi balanced it's "available" budget.
California didn't.
hence....California is "teh stoopid"
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Most of the people in those states live in squalor. They need as much help as they can get considering this is after all the United States. The standard of living in California is a lot higher, despite the cost of living, compared to southern states. Those states would be utterly lost if they're weren't this re-distribution of wealth.
This fact is fair criticism to be made to southern Republicans who complain about the concept of wealth redistribution while their states benefit from it.
then tell me this is change we can believe in.
When did California take up the motto, "change we can believe in"?
A solid majority, 65%, opposed plans to place sales tax-like levies on services such as legal advice and car repairs. A proposal to flatten the income tax to make the state less dependent on the wealthy was opposed by 48% of voters and supported by just 33%. The nonpartisan panel had endorsed the argument made by many budget experts that income taxes from wealthy residents make state finances too erratic because they rise and fall dramatically as the stock market moves.
tax-like levies on legal advice and car repairs would effect the middle/working class more than anyone else.
and the defeat of the measure to "flatten the income tax" is friggin great news. that 'nonpartisan panel' sounds sketchy.
good on california voters for those 2 victories.
...you would be astounded by this Susie. This is precisely why our country is so fucked up. Because it's not just CA, it's the whole god damn country.
Until we can get a voter participation rate into the 90% range, nothing in this country will ever change, nor in any state. Too many people simply don't give a crap about voting or any other participation in their government. They'd rather watch (not) reality TV than get out and vote.
I honestly don't see any way to change that and as a result, our country's slide into the abyss will continue unabated.
continuing to "feather their nests" rather then investing and putting money to work in this country.
their children will one day wake up and figure out that putting their useless, financially draining parents on a sled and walking them out into the middle of nowhere in a blizzard to freeze to death overnight isn't such a bad idea.
"They don't want the Constitution changed to allow a simple majority of lawmakers to push a budget onto the governor's desk, as most other large states allow."
In that case, why not change the budget matter to something in the middle, where instead of two-thirds, it should be three-fifths of lawmakers?
throw all the lawmakers out...
and vote on everything ourselves directly...
(lets get rid of the middlemen)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
That's already happened. Look at California.
that's obvious.
May be, but "simple majority" can be less than three fifths but is more than one half. People need to be educated, and just sitting around and bitching how stupid people are rather than challenge them accomplishes nothing.
the way through High School. That would be a start.
"In other words, this is the "I got mine, the hell with everyone else" crowd."
No, in simple words it was a poll of registered voters. Would it be better to poll the "I got nothing, please take care of me because I cannot be bothered to care enough to vote" crowd.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
You'd know that CA property taxes are assessed on what you paid for your house, not its current value. That's what I mean: People who bought houses 40 year ago are paying peanuts, while those who bought during the housing boom are paying through the nose.
Those older residents don't want it to change because they like paying so much less than everyone else.
A former award-winning journalist and lifelong class warrior, keeping a jaundiced eye on the Washington elite.
My Mom's 86 and lives on a very fixed income. She pays now what she paid in the 70s-thank gods for that. Otherwise, without a doubt she, and many others like her, would be in the streets or living with their kids!
Not to mention, if you refinanced and took equity out of your house when the market was high, your taxes went up.
Don't know about you but I am definitely in favor of elderly people keeping their homes. OF COURSE they like paying less! Most of them are on SSI!!!
Same thing for my mom. Even at the 1984 level the taxes are high (roughly $1200 per quarter) and for someone on SSI that is impossible.
And this is part of the result of that. Something has to give when people want to live in an area that is desirable to live in. It simply gets more expensive. People who aren't pitching in their share, based on the cost of supplying services, should move elsewhere. That is what happens elsewhere in the country.
The resulting distortion means that this person gets a deal, while someone else is paying more than their share. And likely they will not get treated the same when they are due for retirement, because it's basically a pyramid scheme that depends on people continuously buying in at and equal or greater rate than people who stick around. Meaning turnover must be maintained, but the incentive is to not move, which reduces turnover.
So while is helps some, overall it's hurt the state. Some people just can't afford to live in desirable areas and need to move on. It's the same principle with buying a house in the first place, can't live there if you can't afford it.
of who was polled. It was not limited to those who benefit from Proposition 13.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
we are so screwed here! and it looks like eMeg Whitman might have enough money to buy the Governorship.
why aren't you leading a genuine revolt against the grotesque elites that have betrayed our families and the security of our country Meg?
and Carly Fiorina California Senate.
Talk about Mass Destruction.
watch this guy try to sell (to Californians) a one ounce gold coin...
for fifty bucks! (actual worth 1100 dollars)
people don't know the value of money...they have no clue!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5aRIz17fk&fe...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
up indefinitely and not come back down also.
As things get worse there is going to be snake oil salesmen and charlatans coming out of the woodwork.
...people thought their houses were going up indefinitely too...
and don't forget the dot com bubble...
...gold might be a bubble too!
But take my word for it...the FRD will "pop" first!
p.s.
"the snake oil salesmen and charlatans"
came out of the woodwork a long time ago...they sold America a "Keynesian economy" based on endless debt on worthless paper money, ...that is (now) broken.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
... have you taken an even remotely introductory class on economic theory?
And do you know the basic tenets of Kenyesian economic theory?
A complex financial scheme lasting several years consisting of three or more parts: Creation of an asset-class bubble (such as real estate, egregious excess and ebullience, followed by horrific losses which are transferred onto the shoulder of bubble victims while ill-gotten gains are retained by the bubble creators. A Bubblism may be conceptualized as a a ‘financial concerto played by crooks with financial instruments.’
who needs theory when you have scientific results!!!
(theorise all you want to) It's still broke!
Keynesian has failed...what more do you need to know?
(a country's fiat money...is only as good as its economy.
...and the economy ain't too good.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
before you go around throwing kenyesian this and that, just take 5 minutes to at least read upon basic kenyesian economic principles.
Which from the tone and context of your posts, it seems painfully obvious you have not the slightest clue about.
What I find it laughable is for a libertarian to say with a straight face how "Kenyesian" has failed. When this country for the better part of 3 decades has done anything BUT kenyesian economics. I find it astounding, how after 4 decades of enacting your boy's Friedman's wet dream. Now that the hubris and clusterf*ck is just to obvious to ignore. You guys simply rebrand it as "kenyesian" and move on with your merry lives.
To make such a remark certainly makes you more questionable than Californians in general.
...with a good video showing how stoooooopid Californians are!
I'm from Atlanta Georgia and get called (teh stoopid) all the time...(payback time)
(It's hard living in the south)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
no, you backed up nothing. the video shows how stupid the particular Californian in the video is.
The point is to stop generalizing. I am pretty sure all Californians have not called you stupid. Stupid is as stupid does. It might be time to reflect.
Urinald Shwarzengroper...
Hence...(teh stoopid)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
The country elected George W Bush. (Cheat or not, he did serve two terms) So we are all as you say "teh stoopid?"
What's the use? Continuing this discussion would render me insane.
California!
My uncle lives there.
(lighten up)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
... I would not be so quick to laugh at the spec in our eye, given the industrial grade reinforced steel beam firmly planted in yours.
I pray for thee.
NOBODY 2012
At the social security office, and I would guess maybe 15% of the people were American Citizens. I fully understand the clusterfuck prop 13 causes in Sacramento and our need to abolish it.
However, the elephant in the room is the illegal aliens sapping our system at an unmanageable pace. Until the powers that be are willing to meet halfway and do something to curb the widespread abuse of our system, I will not be for repealing prop 13. My taxes will go up, and the waste will continue.
I know it's not fashionable in liberal circles to point out we have this problem, but the longer we ignore it, the more we let Lou Dobbs take control of the subject and nobody is well served by it.
It is a problem, it needs to be dealt with rational policies. I know that in about 2 seconds somebody will call me stupid or racist. Imigration is good, but it should be controlled. When my Iraqi friend brought his family over he had to prove he had about half a million in the bank. But that standard does not exist if your mexican? That is not fair.
If we want to close the budget gap we need to deal with that and also go the rest of the way and legalize pot.
Not all 'American Citizens' are white folk, esp in the SW where the original inhabitants (pre annexation) were decidedly darker than white.
I am aware that not all citzens are white. I could hear the conversations, when the lady behind the glass would ask only a few could provide SSN information. I don't even know how they are getting access to these services but they are.
And while this is on a federal level it is even worse on a state / city level. Take a trip to any DWP (LA City Water and Power) or statewide assistance program and it is the same story.
I am forced by circumstances and my aging mother to apply for these services and it is a major blow to my ego to do it but do it I must. A lot of people come here and view us as weak, as suckers, and have no compunction about abusing our services like this or running welfare scams or insurance scams. Sure go ahead have another kid you can't afford, the state will pick up the tab every time.
There are much worse things in Cali, like the insane real state bubble (at least in northern cali) which made speculation almost the national sport over here.
If anything, the really wealthy in this state are undertaxed.
Enact proper tax laws, since prop 13 is mostly used as a tax loophole for commercial realstate anyways.
I'm in Northern California, and as far as I can tell, the actual cause of the budget crisis is a complete mystery to most of the citizens of this state. It doesn't get mentioned in the paper, or discussed amongst people. Nobody will vote to fix it, because nobody understands the problem. And, of course, it's in the best interest of the state GOP to make sure that we never do.
Enjoy the future if you can.
"It's astounding to me, that California voters still remain so largely uninformed (or indifferent) about the root causes of the state's yearly fiscal crisis."
Seriously? That actually surprises you?
I'm flattered that you apparently think so highly of my gang, but allow me to burst your bubble. My fellow Californians are, on average, just as ignorant and/or apathetic as voters from any other state.
We need to change it to a simple majority. The right-wingers have been so extreme that they are a permanent minority in California, but the rule that is place, requires a 2/3 majority for a budget to be passed. All the right-wingers have left is obatructionism, and that's all they do.
"It's astounding to me, that California voters still remain so largely uninformed (or indifferent) about the root causes of the state's yearly fiscal crisis."
It's astounding to me that some uninformed hick from Philly remains so egotistical that she can tell us Californians what's wrong with our system. Look, I'm a guy who remains liberal on most issues, but throwing money at California ain't gonna fix it. We are already insanely taxed on sales and income. If you take our Prop 13 away from us we're just going to spend more money and nothing will change.
The purpose behind Prop 13 and the failure of Ahnold's tax measure earlier this year is to force the boneheads in Sacramento to spend less money.
I'm all for properly compensating our public employees including teachers, but the retirement entitlement they got from Grey Davis' days went way beyond other states. It's got to be rolled back.
The number of commissions and their staffs have to be reduced. These guys are simply termed out legislatures who haven't found a way to earn an honest living. There are hundreds of commissioners earning 6 figure incomes for a few nights a year work.
We need a way to reign in immigrant costs. I don't want to argue that they are illegal or otherwise - the taxes they pay don't cover their expenses. Rich employers who get cheap labor rely on the rest of us taxpayers to subsidize their existence in California. Just make them pay their fair share.
Step 1 is an honest redistricting. We need unsafe districts. Republicans and Democrats both need touch base with their constituency.
Step 2 will follow. But until then, no new taxes. We're taxed out.
We are not "taxed out". Taxes (*and* spending) here in California have been steadily going down for decades now. And FYI, my husband is a high school teacher, so I have some real experience with the retirement benefits. For the most part, they are not nearly as generous as you seem to think they are. You've just fallen for a fiction advanced by the republican rump. The few exceptions regarding golden retirement benefits are groups the GOP is in love with, such as the prison guards union.
Prop 13 is a joke. It should only have applied to residential properties in the first place, and even how it deals with residential property has turned into a joke. Billionaires who own multi-million-dollar mansions should not be allowed to get away with lower property taxes than some poor slob who just bought a $150,000 rat hole.
Taxes should not require a super-majority to pass. And the ballot proposition process has basically made it illegal for the California government to govern. Those two things are the biggest problem and should be done away with immediately, if not sooner. The ridiculous prop 13 is a very close second.
Is how prop 13 passed and then Ronnie Ray Gun got his dirty paws on our system in the first place. California Democrats and their ease to raise taxes while not drive waste down gave the right their opening in this state and ultimately nationwide. (And that is not a cliche, the waste is ridiculous not that Republicans would ever do anything about it either.)
The prison guard bullshit has got to go, your are right about that same thing for the asshole mcmansion loophole. But until you convince the boomers that your not going to raise them out onto the street, repealing 13 is dead on arrival. California is so screwed.
>>We are not "taxed out". Taxes (*and* spending) here in California have been steadily going down for decades now.<<
You lie. Those charts are per capita, adjusted for inflation. The spending and revenues have always increased relative to inflation, but since Grey Davis decided to spend the dot com boom on you instead of saving it, spending has way outstripped revenues.
Not taxed out? I've lived her for the most part of 59 years and have pay stubs and tax receipts to prove you otherwise.
If we're going to have a rational discussion you need to start looking at real facts and figures. Stop with this Orwellian shit where you redefine the hard facts of what's in my file cabinet to something straight out of your imagination.
1. Prop 13 keeps property taxes based on the purchase price of the real estate. The part that no one is talking about is the commercial real estate exemption/loophole. The Capitol Records building in Los Angeles (?), {the round tower in Hollywood} pays taxes based on the 1978 evaluation plus inflation. This is because the owners of the building placed the property in a trust. All subsequent purchasers of the property are not buying the property, but are buying to be the beneficiary when the trust disolves. This commercial real estate loophole is as much to blame for the loss of property taxes in CA. Try fixing the loophole and commercial real estate owners will scream, they are screwing with your Prop 13.
2. Regarding the budget, the CA state budget has not grown significantly if you adjust the budget for inflation, population growth, and PRISON POPULATION GROWTH. The prison population growth is based on the voter approved law that a man convicted of three felonies must spend life in jail.
3. With the loopholes in Prop 13 and the mandated prison growth, CA will be constantly in budget shortfall. Both need to be fixed to gain control of the budget.
Christie wants to screw New Jersey in the same way that California is screwed.
He wants to change the law so that it takes a 2/3 majority to raise takes. If you stop to think about it (which a lot of voters don’t) a simple majority is a fairly high hurdle.
“If pigs could vote,
the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time,
no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side.”
- Orson Scott Card
This is what 30 years of right wing Republican propaganda gets you:
Major segments of the electorate see the state's problems as the product of unrestrained lawmakers driven by special interests to waste taxpayer money, and reject arguments that structural issues with the state's Constitution and government institutions are to blame.
It is a structural problem. Period. End of sentence.
The commercial property loophole as pointed out above could be easily fixed but for one thing. The big business would claim that they it would try to scare people into believing that fixing the loophole with commercial property is the same as private property.
Electronically, before the masses of the poor got their paper IOUs.
The elite and politically aware went click click click and gutted the tax base, before the drawbridge went up.
It amazed me that a bankrupt state like California can pay out so called 'tax rebates' , when they do not have enough tax revenues coming in to run their state.
Fortunately, most of those fuckers don't vote in mid-terms, unless wedge issues against minorities and homosexuals are brought up, so we still have a chance to repeal and/or alter Prop. 13 in '010. Plus, they won't be talking so high and mighty in 6-12 months when they find out that we're still behind the rest of the country in growth, because we're last in investing in infrastructure.
"In other words, this is the "I got mine, the hell with everyone else" crowd."
is definitely not aware that these differences could be
the fuel for one of the most horrendous civil disputes
in a state that already has had major minority warfare.
this could turn california into one of the largest
statewide arsonist threats in the history of this country.
down trodden people will only let the elite/self-entitled
take advantage of them for so long......history has
many examples of the results of this kind of behavior
can not be tolerated any longer.
One of the big reasons CA is so screwed up is our initiative/referendum system, a holdover from when Gov. Hiram Johnson wanted to break the grip of the Southern Pacific Railroad on the legislature, a century ago. Now, our constitution is the size of an unabridged dictionary, chock full of well-meaning amendments thrown in helter-skelter over the years, without rhyme or reason. We need a new constitution that is coherent and sensible, exactly what special interests and Sacramento don't want.
I've tried to explain this structural issue to many a fellow Californian. You get something akin to the head-tilt a dog gives you when they're puzzled.
Most of them simply don't understand the civics behind the constant budget problems. Hell, they even recalled a governor and replaced him with a movie star rather than fix the underlying mess.
Of course the media does such a wonderful job correctly framing the issue.....
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
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