Guess What? Stupak Amendment Written Because Catholic Bishops Wanted A Tougher Law
By Susie Madrak Monday Nov 09, 2009 11:00amApparently the Catholic Church, just like the other Beltway lobbyists, now writes our legislation.
The drama had built for months, pitting a group of Democrats against the Catholic Church. Priests and bishops were calling members to lobby for stricter language to limit abortion coverage, members and aides said last week.
But the final decision played out over a few furious hours Friday night as the fate of the broader bill still hung in the balance and stirred up long-dormant tensions within the Democratic Party over reproductive rights.
The beneficiary of this impasse was Stupak, an outspoken abortion-rights opponent whom the leadership had tried to circumvent, in order to pick up the votes he claimed to represent. After months of stalemate, the speaker was forced to accept language Stupak first drafted over the summer that would bar any insurance company that participates in the exchange — including the government option — from offering insurance plans that would cover abortions.
“Normally, at the end of the day, you’re arguing over fine-tuning,” said an aide whose boss was involved in the negotiations. “But this is a sizable change to current policy. So everyone was kind of stunned.”
For more than a decade, the Hyde amendment has prohibited the federal government from paying for abortions through any existing government program. The law needs to be reauthorized each year as part of the appropriations process, but the two sides had come to something of a détente.
The health care fight, however, disrupted that balance, and a big bloc of anti-abortion Democrats were threatening to derail the entire bill unless party leaders agreed to stronger restrictions the church could accept. Since mid-September, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer had been working closely with Rep. Brad Ellsworth (D-Ind.) to craft language that would thread what proved to be an impossible needle.
Ellsworth, in consultation with the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, was trying to amend legislation passed out of the Energy and Commerce Committee to make sure insurance companies that receive federal funds under the programs created by the bill don’t use any of that money to pay for abortions.
By Thursday, Ellsworth, who was working closely with Rep. Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) realized the church wouldn’t accept anything less than a version of Hyde, so he and his staff started working on a version the bishops could accept, aides said.
Ellsworth reached out to Stupak on Thursday, and Friday evening they met with Pelosi, Hoyer and Rep. Henry Waxman, at which point the group agreed to include much stricter language than most thought they would.
But they realized they would need Republican votes to approve the rule — and win the support of the church and, in turn, wavering Democrats — meaning they needed to go much further than anyone anticipated to bring an avowed Democratic opponent, National Right to Life, on board, aides involved said afterward.
Pelosi met with members of the Pro-Choice Caucus repeatedly that day, and finally, during the contentious three-hour session that resulted in the DeLauro-Miller shouting match, Pelosi broke the bad news to abortion-rights supporters — she was going to allow a vote on the Stupak amendment.
Multiple sources said Pelosi’s decision angered DeLauro and other Democrats who support abortion rights, like Reps. Diana DeGette of Colorado, Louise Slaughter of New York and Lois Capps of California. Slaughter even boycotted her own Rules Committee while it debated the amendment.
“He moved the goal posts, and he said if he didn’t get his amendment made in order, he would vote against the bill,” DeGette said of Stupak. “The speaker concluded that she needed the votes.”
“I don’t believe any of us believe we can hold up what we’ve been fighting for ... and that’s health care,” Slaughter said before the vote.
From the New York Times this morning:
The bishops objected to the segregated funds proposal previously embraced by the House and Senate Democratic leaders in part because they argued that it amounted to nothing more than an accounting gimmick.
They should know. After all, how many American dioceses have filed bankruptcy to avoid paying out damages in child molestation suits?
“We think that providing health care is itself a pro-life thing, and we think that, by and large, providing better health coverage to women could reduce abortions,” said Richard M. Doerflinger, a spokesman for the anti-abortion division of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
“But we don’t make these decisions statistically, and to get to that good we cannot do something seriously evil.”
No, no, not at all. For example, the Church wouldn't dream of something like making minor coughing noises about an unjust war, yet remarkably taking no action to stop it. Is that what you mean, Mr. Doerflinger?
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When Nancy Pelosi was here at C&L didn't see say how important women's issues were to her, and how she would never compromise on them?
Just asking.
What does this issue have to do with women? As far as I can see, abortion rights are between God and the clergy, and the rest of you should just stay out of it. Go bake some cookies if you want to do something useful. The men are talking.
Either a very good snark, Clavis...or your brain is eating itself.
you know, putting the wimminfolk in their places.
Me, personally, I like the way this amendment works - not for women, but to ensure the insurance corporations yet another garunteed source of profit.
Any pro-choice woman who may ever think she might someday need an abortion - for any reason - will have to pay for a private insurance rider to cover it if and when she may ever need it.
So, millions of women - most women, in fact - who will never have to have an abortion, but who want to be covered just in case, will pay extra to the private insurers.
Whose idea was that?
I think we need to start asking why, if abortion is so horrible, any pro-life politician would vote for it to be profitable?
How do I tell my 8 year old daughter that in order to grant her health care for the rest of her life, our worthless gormless feckless politicians abitrarily decider-ictatored to sell her crotch off to Der Panzerpapen and his Tali-Born Again terrorist fedayeen ... and the best she gets out of the deal is a End-User License Agreement detailing what does and doesn't constitute legal use?!?!
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Well said!
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They should have started with the non-renewal of the Hyde Amendment. That would have set the issue for debate. They could have then compromised by allowing it to be renewed. They are weak and pathetic, and this bill is week and pathetic, too. Kill it, and push through single payer.
For too long, the Pregnant Women lobby has controlled our government and their own bodies.
It's time that changed. From now on, the people who fight for abstract concepts like "marriage" and "potential human beings" will have their say.
!
It is kind of an empty threat.
(now if you block off man-boy sex, you'll hit both the Republicans AND the clergy!)
? How many pregnancies have resulted from man-boy sex? We are talking about the issue of abortion here.
Or is that your point... "empty threat"
if you want to talk abortion and the Catholic Church, better bring in the fact that few Catholic families are popping out huge families anymore, which means less resources for pedophile priests to choose from.
You want to cut their supply down even more?
per year? Do they pay State, County & Local taxes?
They're interfering in Government business. That is clearly unambiguously against the Constitution.
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Are you a member of the obese, white men lobby?
.
Why do you hate your mother? Can't have women making decisions for themselves abt. unwanted PUKIE babies, can we??? NO more fodder for foolish wars, no 'support' for KRB/Halleburton???? What kind of a 'patriot' are you, a rapist????? OH! It's your mother who hates YOU!!! Now, that would figure, stoooooooooooooooooooopid!
Hey, I'm just trying to adhere to "tradition" -- you know, like those fine, time-honored traditions that say if your daughter is raped, that she must have done something to deserve it, and that you should have her stoned to death to restore honor to the family.
(Somehow, funnily enough, "family" always translates to "the patriarch and his sons and brothers".)
Surely you're not anti-tradition!
.
Erection pill pushers succeed again!
Funny, no?
.
Abortion Foes May Provide Emergency Exception, For the Health of the Insurance Companies
Separation of what and what, now?
Were you old enough and brought up in Mass as I was, you'd shrug this off as a non-story. Before a bill on anything remotely involving a citizen's personal life became a law in Mass, it had to pass through Lake St - the Archbishop's residence.
As a teenage boy, I broke the law when I bought the obligatory pack of Trojans for my wallet. The drugstore that sold them to me also broke the law. Not because of my age, but because any birth control was illegal in Mass. Lake St. didn't approve. That's just one example.
The RC"s and the snake tossers are just another lobby. I don't understand why the IRS allows them the tax exemption, but goes after the "liberal" Episcopalians. Or am I being naive? (tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Christian Scientists. Damn, can't you back bay bead counters go back to burning witches?
also known as the original midwives - and who, yes, also did abortions when necessary. And had been for centuries.
They weren't burned for being witches - they were burned for not bowing to the patriarchical church.
When ether was first used to help women in labor, the Archbishop of Canterbury spoke out against it. He was in favor of women suffering as much as possible. Anesthesia, he said, "robbed God of the rich, deep, earnest cries of women." You know, cause God really loves a screaming woman - gotta pay for Eve's sin.
I don't want any priest, any evangelical, any Jehvah's Witness, any religious nut, having control over my body - or my daughters' bodies.
Enough.
I will look up numbers & addresses.
my friend Winky says my seed are greatful to Stupak. I hope many grow up to be altar boys and none choose to become altered boys.
To this end I will entrust their care to celibate people of both sexes who wear dresses.
;-)
He is no fair weather friend, nor a friend who wears feathers.
He has, however, been known to find the latter stimulating.
Why are these guys still dressing at the height of 16th century Florentine fashion and equating that with God in any way, shape or form?
unless you count what he inspired Edith Head to do, but she wouldn't work for the Church after Hollywood came calling.
abortion and gays.
Not poverty. Not war. Not injustice.
and the LIES they rode in on.....
threats to their tax-exempt status.
p.s.
I saw that preposterous, flatulent Catholic League mouthpiece Donohue, whining that Catholics don't receive the respect they once enjoyed. The fault, of course, lay with secular humanism.
but not as His apostles.
He'd see them as the Pharisees and Publicans taking over the world.
Sounds to me like the Catholic Church is ready to be rid of their silly tax exemption.
also wants to oppress the mothers and potential mothers of the children they rape (anyone doubt they are still doing it?).
I can't understand Catholics. I work with a few and they are still loyal to this heinous organization. But we should not be letting them influence our lives. Talk about people who are surely going to Hell. It's the Bishops.
so you just dismiss them and thier religion, think there wrong for standing up for what they believe. That must mean you dismiss all religions and the people who believe in them? Is this true then you dismiss all those who stand up for what they believe which leaves you all by yourself. I am sure there is something you must see that you don't want your tax dollors paying, I know I do. I am not against abortion, do I think it is wrong yes, do I want tax dollors paying for something I think is wrong no.
god is not
Child rape or anything oh wait yes they did. yea there the people were should use for opinion based law.
Mel Reynolds' sentence for BANK FRAUD was commuted, he did not request, and was not granted any clemency for sexual assault. He served that sentence in full.
his victims.
your taxes are higher. That means you are paying for the Catholic Church. You are paying for the rape of little boys. Are you OK with THAT?
Just don't stand on someone else's back to do it
.......are another arm of FACISM, and since I was once one, brought up 12yrs. in Catholic Schools, I can truthfully say Catholicism is FACIST, as is every other 'creed'. Always these FACISTS aleign themselves with the so-called 'secular' Pols always to increase their income and standing. The bane of humanity is called 'religion' as has already been proved and proved over again.
to interfere in any way with Government. For a good reason.
Some churches believe in casting out daemons by suffocating children. Should that be made a Law?
Some churches "handle' snakes, some suggest stoning adulterers to death, Christian Science forbids doctors: Do you want that made into a law?
Nearly all Religions loathe and despise women & girls, and do everything their twisted minds can think of to persecute, abuse, maltreat, ill-treat, tyrannize, crush, repress, suppress, subjugate, Us.
(Thank you Thesaurus)
even though there were massive protests against it.
I don't recall the protesters being exempted from paying taxes.
The Bishops currently don't have to pay for abortion and the Stupak amendment is not needed to prevent them from paying. The amendment is meant to take coverage away from women who currently have abortion coverage through thier private plans. The Bishops know what they are doing.
And yes I do dismiss them and thier good ole boy religion. It is part of my faith to do so.
it is time to start hanging Catholic bishops and their ilk. Screw the pope, hang him too. Torch the Vatican; bring this cult to a timely end.
I am so damn tired of Abortion being used as wedge issue against all things legislative. Put abortion on the national ballot for an amendment to the Constitution. Count the votes and be done with it.
Let's just abolish all health care in the name of God. After all, if you're sick or injured, it's because of intelligent design.
cancer cells and.....http://www.gluck.net/jesus/jesustruck4.jpg
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has left the building......
Always have been, and always will be regressive and repressive. After all, they gotta keep the people afraid (of whatever version of "hell"), controlled, and obedient...
People are just supposed to keep strong faith. Don't ask questions of why things are the way they are because its too complicated and ONLY God has such wisdom.
"the Magesterium."
his opponents were casting aspersions that he would be a Vatican tool.
He wasn't. But it seems plenty of Dems today are.
If religious organizations can't accept the idea of the separation of Church and State, then they should be separated from their tax-exempt status if they're going to play politics.
Because politicians today are hollow vessels. They have no moral compass, no intellectual integrity and certainy no sense of honor, dignity or values.
They suck the dick that pays them the most.
Most Christian churches are just the same. They're organizations for acquiring and keeping Power and Money; they're WORSE than most any Government because they give NOTHING back, only TAKE TAKE TAKE, till they have it ALL.
I was raised Catholic, and I despise that church. They pretty much destroyed my mother, and 30 years later my best and dearest friend.
Damm them to the Hell they invented.
...........a recovering x-Catholic raised on FACISM Catholic style.
Blue Dog sellouts and anti-choice fake Democrats must be purged from the Democratic membership of the House in 2010.
If it wasn't clear before, it certainly is now. These people are as much the enemy of America as any Republican thugs in government.
Let's primary their asses right out of office.
... this inevitably turns into the lesser of two evils. People will vote for a weak Democrat rather than a Michelle Bachmann, so there's no incentive for the weak Democrat to up their game. They just have to be more palatable than their opponent.
I mean, come on, where's Ralph Nader RIGHT NOW? Nowhere. He'll show up in 2011 and make all the same noises about how we need new choices, smart choices ... but he's not out doing the work NOW. We need candidates with strong knowledge of key issues, and candidates with spines.
Nader is still around and just released a book "Only the Rich Can Save Us" Not the Wall Street Rich, but those people who have enough money to put their resources together and help drive a movement against monied corporations usurping our government.
Here is an interview with him
https://www.truthout.org/1014091
Trade one set of rich masters for another. That'll work.
Not saying it is a solution. Pointing out that Nader is out working on issues and to state otherwise is not fair nor accurate.
.............are a 'protected' frontline of attack, protected by Rahmie the unelected, userper, ZIONISTWHORE, and will not go anywhere in the very near future.
..........................all incumbents, except for Kucinich, or Grayson, or like-SPOKRN/Proven people and can we please loose Snow-job??? LIEberman?
If voters don't pay attention, we'll be living in a theocracy in short order. The Democrats keep selling us out and patting themselves on the back.
Idiots like Steve King keep turning out legislation that backdoors the whole 'Christian Nation' meme, and Democrats sit there and do nothing, figuring they can kill it in committee or somesuch.
The only reason conservative nutjobs are ruining this country is because the electorate lets them get away with the Jedi Mind Trick again and again.
posted under wrong account
The United States is a third world shithole thanks to the religiously insane among us.
ubetcha!
Jesus H Christ.
The democrats have lost me period. They need to do a hell of a lot to gte me back now..
The democrats don't have to balls to use there power to hold their own party members in line then they can go to hell.
This house bill is fail, too much in favor of the Health insurence companies, too much given away for the illustion of reform. I also really enjoy the new bullshit there spouting that the senate is HA HA HA more liberal then the house.
Pity they didn't want tougher laws against the diddling of altar boys, or the bishops who protected the diddlers.
I am not sure if members of Congress are trying to hide behind the cloth or if the Catholic Bishops really have that much pull. If the Catholic Bishops are sticking their noses in this, then it is time to hit back.
Recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against a Roman Catholic diocese in Connecticut, saying that thousands of documents generated by lawsuits against six priests for alleged sexual abuse cannot remain sealed. It is time for legal filings be made in every state demanding the release of such documents. Catholic Bishops - pray for children OR Prey on children? Let the people decide.
Is some how the real reason then I say A whole branch of Chrisanity needs to lose tax examption
Hurricane Ida appears will make landfall in Mississippi or Alabama. Repent your evil ways right wing religious conservatives of deep red Mississippi and Alabama! Ida's coming praise Jebus!
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/patrob3.htm
Just how was the Democratic Speaker of the House forced to side with a minority position?
The same way single payer was forced "off the table"? Impeachment? War crimes investigations? DADT/DOMA? Removing The Hyde Amendment all together?
Progressive issues aren't even permitted votes. Yet unpopular conservative issues are given special treatment.
there not willing to use there powers as a leader of the party to force people to side with the majority . take liberman's shit away and anyone else that's not willing to shut the fuck up and do the right thing.
Because Nancy Pelosi is WEAK.
Just wait...Harry Reid is getting ready to compromise the rest of these wonderful victories away.
...............die unheard because of RAHMIE THE ZIONISTWHORE.
the silent mark of the Beast for us.
............in it lil' Ricky
Thanks a lot, lady.
I'm pro-choice, but is women paying for their own abortions really all that bad?
Frankly, I see an upside to it. Maybe the cost would lead to more responsibility.
Please disabuse me if I'm wrong, and I always allow that I may be.
thanks
Stop!!! you don't have to keep trying to twist you mind in ways to make the democrats and Obama seem to be doing good for all.
Even if it's only 1%, that's still 10,000 failures for every million "responsible" um, efforts.
And using pregnancy as a punishment for sex is a bit too, um, well, fill in the [blank]: Backward? Religious? Ineffectual? Barbaric? Silly? Mind your own business?
Sex is for procreation. Anything else is self indulgence.
... "self indulgence" would probably qualify as a different sin.
he would not have given them palms. Or is it psalms?
people only do it to make their mommy happy.....DONT DO IT
and self indulgence is what makes capitalism work you anti-merican socialist!
many would have gone Galt long before the Tea Party movement gave them an excuse.
Let me disabuse you of your foolish notions.....
....This is NOT about making women pay for their own abortions...it is about taking the RIGHTS of women away....
pregnancy is a right? Just asking, since many feel health care in general is not a right.
our creator. Life, liberty, and copyright protection for the intellectual property of our creator.
................her body and everything in it is hers to do, or not do with as she chooses. It is a women's health issue.
By those lights, cancer patients whose conditions can be linked to smoking or exposure to the sun should pay for their own treatments. Overweight people should pay their own way. So should alcoholics.
It has never been about 'responsibility' at any rate - it's about male-dominated religious dogma being codified as the law of the land, helped along by hypocrites who go hiking the Appalachian Trail and having pre-Halloween trysts in cemeteries with strippers.
Besides, how is it that a woman who seeks an abortion is any less 'responsible' than the man who impregnated her? It takes two to tango.
Hmmm...I am not aware of ANY woman who "seeks" abortion. I don't think you meant it that way, but an issue so emotionally charged is easily derailed by the way it is discussed.
... certainly, a woman can choose to have an abortion and, thus, seeks a doctor/specialist for those services?
This is about self-important males dictating what women may or may not do with their own bodies, and not about the perceived/implied moral standing of a woman.
yours is the only cogent, non-insulting response to my suggestion.
I totally agree with you about the male hypocrites deciding women's rights, etc.
But I guess I don't equate pregnancy with a disease or sickness. I also don't see this as preventing women from having abortions.
And I didn't say the woman is the irresponsible one or that all abortions are the result of negligence.
if pregnancy is not a “disease or sickness”. Medical care is about more than “disease or sickness”. It is also about dealing with pregnancy. This condition happens to half the population and is a very taxing on the human body.
conceives through immaculate conception.
they could have procreated through consensual sex. Call it a design flaw.
....those bogus 'acorn aid pimps and ho's' videos to make similar hidden videos where he accompanies a very pregnant woman to a church and claims she is a virgin impregnated by god....would the jebus freaks endorse/worship/kiss the feat of this pregnant lady or call her a lying fake?!
Just because you can't get sex, even if you had a fistful of fifties, is no reason to support this action so as to deny the rest of us.
to pay. Poor women will not likely be able to exercise their right to abortion. And for you who are trying to impose your anti-abortion "morals" on others--abortion is legal. Go petal your bullshit where people think like you do.
Isn't participation in politics forbidden in the Catholic Church? I remember when my favorite priest left the church because of the Pope forbidding any political participation. That would have been JPII.
Your pro-stupid and ignorant.
and constructive than making actual specific refuting points. Thanks for offering absolutely nothing.
You are operating on the premise that women need to be more responsible; a flawed belief system. Women are very responsible and having an abortion is a responsible decision. If you are personally opposed to abortion then take some personal responsibility for yourself and never have sex with a woman who believes differently than you. If you cannot get it through your head that women don't need to be more "responsible" then take some personal responsibilty for flawed thinking and stay away from them altogether.
It's time to strip the Catholic Church of it's tax exempt status. You wanna play in the political arena? Then pay up, bitches!
It needs to be done Now Not next week not a month from now today period. They want to influrence policy like this they have to fucking pay for the right to do so.
I'm sick of this shit is there nothing the democrats will not give up?
Oh And I can't stand the delustions anymore
The senate is more liberal
It will be taken out later
this is just a starting point
Bull%$#@ Bull@#$% bull#@$%
but I blame the educational monopoly of the government that the Democrats will propably sell out for a few pats on the head from the Bishopric.
On one side you have the party of men, women, blacks, gays, hispanics, asians, gays, straights, spirtual people of all faiths, agnostics and atheists.
On the other side you have the party of conservative Christian white men and teabaggers.
If the GOP's tent were any bigger I might be able to get both feet in.
Damn I may not agree with the GOP ideals but at least there able to get stuff done.
What they got done is themselves ousted from the White House, House and Senate. Which is what happens when all you try to appeal too are racist, bigoted, homophobic, conservative, white, Jesus freak, teabaggers.
In record time no less.
But it won't be from appealing to a broader base. Which was my point all along.
I've had it with the way the democrat can't seem to stand up for anything. If they give me a hint of hope I'd be more then willing to give them time. But when stuff like this happens what does that tell you. When they keep giving important parts of reform and our right away again and again and again. When they seem all too willing to trust the people who causes the economic meltdown.
Tomorrow I'd feel better but right now I'm and utterly and complete disgusted with the democrats. Should I be posting no I’m saying a ton of stuff I don’t mean but if I didn’t post I don’t know what I would do with the rage I feel . I mean to bow down to such a minority group like this willing to sell Abortion rights up the river all because they don’t feel like playing hardball.
Oh so your going to edit you post no don't you want to call me a troll go right ahead. If you don't like raw emotion then say so . It will not stop me but go ahead
You're being honest. They are pathetic. The realization of that fact breaks your heart, doesn't it?
... the Democrats go out of their way to concede the point before fighting.
Always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!!!
praying someone would invoke the evil one.
His stubby missing digit is all over this.
Yeah! Wars! Domestic Spying! Tax Cuts for Rich People and Corporations! The wonderful Bankruptcy law!!
Didn't say I liked it. But why is one party so capable while the other seem to be well not able to do anything. And sorry but This Abortion admendment is worse then anything I say bush did to abortion rights.
am anything you say. So their.
And a few comments above, you posted "I am a trifled annoyed at your grammar"
I ever claimed everyone got the impressions I often do.
It's your comment at 12:09 which doesn't make any sense. Normally this wouldn't trigger a response, but it did because you complained about someones grammar and fail to see the mistake of your own. I could at least understand the person's comment you were annoyed with.
... an excuse for Democrats to do what they wanted to do anyway.
all the wrong shit.
get real big you can start your own party. Nothing stoppin ya.
talking to me?
and fiver and you got caught where I pushed the send button. Sorry.
change it, write to all the Dems and let them know how upset you are they caved liked they did.
that others may have a different set of morals than you do, that are just as valid as you think yours are? Remember, "Judge not lest ye be judged." Try applying that now.
All I can say is "keep up the good work, Catholic church!" You're losing followers by the millions with your medieval thinking.
Garbage in, garbage out, garbage along the way.
The Health Care/Wall Street/Pope of Hope Mafia Syndicate Well Being and Advancement Act of 2009.
I'll go along with restricting funds for abortions if we had an amendment that resulted in castration of priests that molested children.
(or is that a bit too much?)
there own expense.
let their faith see them through it.
I am sure there is a beautifully illustrated manual for doing that in a ritual setting. Probably a CIA contractor has already worked it up into a training manual translated into Uzbek.
no response needed now.
suggesting just that. It's time to end the stupid preferential treatment those child molesters enjoy!
After all, viagara is covered by most health plans. All women should get full coverage of birth control. Don't force consequences onto women while at the same time not providing every opportunity to help prevent women from getting pregnant.
Every pregnancy comes with a risk. If Americans are to think of our society as civilized, how can Americans ask or expect women across this country to take such a risk with pregnancy without providing support where a woman's life is in danger due to complications? Given the fact that the current statistics if the American health care system has one of the lowest infant mortality rates of industrialized countries, women need a little peace of mind!
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